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Should some engineers/manufacturers be tried in the Hague for Crimes Against Humanity?


DDW

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1 minute ago, DDW said:

You really haven't lived until you adjust the valves on a Desmodronic Ducati. Shims, and no valve springs: one cam to open them, another to close. If you get the clearances wrong, self destruction is very rapid. 

Sounds much like the Italian army.

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5 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

BMW & Benz have become notorious for computer problems. Around here they are, by far, the most common cars to see at the side of the road waiting for the hook.

The geeks that I've talked to about it all concur that it is the overly elaborate gimmickry of the computer systems that is at fault.

"German engineering" - an expression from the misty past.

Germans and computers are fundamentally incompatible. Probably due to their approach to doing things. Generally make good hardware tho'.....

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So, anything to do with a Morris Mini Minor, especially if you were a normal sized guy.

Or when BMW gave the 635CSi metric wheels, and convinced Michelin to make metric tyres to fit them.

My current peeve is someone who put a  new Yanmar and V drive into my Valiant 40, then put the stern gland inside the tunnel in the gearbox .

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My pet peeve is the raw water pump on our 3GM30F. It’s facing the wrong way. The entire pump has to be removed to take off the face plate to inspect/replace the impeller. 

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8 hours ago, Fleetwood said:

Germans and computers are fundamentally incompatible. Probably due to their approach to doing things. Generally make good hardware tho'.....

This.

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2 hours ago, Training Wheels said:

My pet peeve is the raw water pump on our 3GM30F. It’s facing the wrong way. The entire pump has to be removed to take off the face plate to inspect/replace the impeller. 

Hold my beer, dude. On my 4JH3-HTE it's the wrong way and BEHIND THE ALTERNATOR. You pretty much have to pull the alternator to get to the pump and then you have to deal with the pump being backwards.

Oh yeah, did I mention that the motor is mounted belowdecks so all this has to be done while laying on your belly? 

And the keel sump is 5' deep so anything you drop is out of reach.

And the stock screws for the pump cover plate are brass, so you can forget about using a magnet when you drop them.

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31 minutes ago, IStream said:

Hold my beer, dude. On my 4JH3-HTE it's the wrong way and BEHIND THE ALTERNATOR. You pretty much have to pull the alternator to get to the pump and then you have to deal with the pump being backwards.

Oh yeah, did I mention that the motor is mounted belowdecks so all this has to be done while laying on your belly? 

And the keel sump is 5' deep so anything you drop is out of reach.

And the stock screws for the pump cover plate are brass, so you can forget about using a magnet when you drop them.

I feel better about mine now.......

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23 minutes ago, Training Wheels said:

I feel better about mine now.......

The thing that kills me is that this was a repower by the PO of my boat. Instead of sticking with the factory stock 75hp normally aspirated motor, he "upgraded" to the 100hp version with the turbo, intercooler, and integral oil cooler. All that extra complexity, bulk, and maintenance just for 25hp you'll never use anyway. In almost every other way my PO was fantastic but this one is the head-slapper that keeps on giving.

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3 hours ago, auggie said:

What's at the other end?  Is there a fitting where filter normally goes

image.png.e82a627f07a38c9aa03b120ed67098a9.pngimage.png.f3a330a3b816dc1aceab239b60055ce8.png

Even better is that you can get them with dual filters for increased oil capacity. If you also swap to truck type canisters you can double the capacity again.image.png.9c182e941da2358528b36901beba3bf4.png

image.png.934b6219be3ac7cb079e17746abccdfa.png

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10 hours ago, Fleetwood said:

Germans and computers are fundamentally incompatible. Probably due to their approach to doing things. Generally make good hardware tho'.....

Not just the Germans. The Noorhovians Scandinavians have not come out of the electronic dark ages either.

The Wallas diesel cooktop on my boat is slow to heat but very efficient so the slowness is forgiven by me, not so much my wife.

The motherboard is another matter.  It is huge!!!  Complicated!!!  Unforgiving!!!  It apparently does not want to run your battery down (?) as it's voltage demands are unreasonably high.  Pray you don't have to service it.

It is the only electric device on the boat that requires more than occasional maintenance of electrical connections.  Tight, clean, dielectric greased connections be damned.  I got some NO-OX-ID special electrical contact grease to see if that helps.

takes breath

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When the Espar D4 hydronic runs out of diesel it tries to restart ten times or something and then shuts down so complete it takes a 125/hr plus dealer service tech with a laptop running the factory program to reboot it for you. Ask me how I know...

 

My ancient Autohelm depthsounder likes to pick up thermoclines. Sailing past the ebb of Jervis Inlet, it told me I had 12ft of water, after I jumped out of my boots when the alarm went off. It has done it before many times for various deeper tide conditions, but this was the first for the depth alarm.

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9 minutes ago, Norse Horse said:

When the Espar D4 hydronic runs out of diesel it tries to restart ten times or something and then shuts down so complete it takes a 125/hr plus dealer service tech with a laptop running the factory program to reboot it for you. Ask me how I know...

 

My ancient Autohelm depthsounder likes to pick up thermoclines. Sailing past the ebb of Jervis Inlet, it told me I had 12ft of water, after I jumped out of my boots when the alarm went off. It has done it before many times for various deeper tide conditions, but this was the first for the depth alarm.

This has been a very handy site for learning about different Espars. http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/showthread.php?385497-HELP-with-Espar-heaters

I think he gives instructions on which pins to jumper to get the D4 going again, but I can't remember where. I'm on page 14 right now. He's in Vancouver, so can do personal troubleshooting if necessary. 

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2 hours ago, auggie said:

Never seen that before. Looks like about $50 - 100 for kit on the Amazon. Not   bad at $1/swear or banged knuckle/head  also save money on rags and clean up

They're well worth the cost.

I'm surprised more people don't know about them and even less people fit one rather than just putting up with the crap from the engine manufacturers. I've fitted a couple to friends' boats after they saw my setup.

As for water pumps, I feel better about the location of the one on my Bukh DV36 engine now. I already swapped the shitty brass screws, guaranteed to break off, to socket head stainless screws. And I have a full set of spare screws aboard for when (not if) I drop some into the bilge.

FKT

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I was going to suggest these:

http://www.speedseal.com/speedseal.html?LMCL=teJhFQ

as vital replacement screws for R/W pump cover plates (certainly saved my sanity a few times, R/W pump facing aft under the cabin sole) but it seems they have closed down!

(Easy enough to get a machinist to fabricate some machine screws with knurled heads tho'.)

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2 hours ago, Fleetwood said:

I was going to suggest these:

http://www.speedseal.com/speedseal.html?LMCL=teJhFQ

as vital replacement screws for R/W pump cover plates (certainly saved my sanity a few times, R/W pump facing aft under the cabin sole) but it seems they have closed down!

(Easy enough to get a machinist to fabricate some machine screws with knurled heads tho'.)

Yeah, I bought one just before they went tits up. 

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2 hours ago, IStream said:

Yeah, I bought one just before they went tits up. 

Shoot - good call. Hate hate hate the brass slot head screws on my 4108 impeller cover plate. 

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On 10/11/2019 at 9:35 PM, SloopJonB said:

BMW & Benz have become notorious for computer problems. Around here they are, by far, the most common cars to see at the side of the road waiting for the hook.

The geeks that I've talked to about it all concur that it is the overly elaborate gimmickry of the computer systems that is at fault.

"German engineering" - an expression from the misty past.

One of my sons is a BMW, now Audi mechanic. He told me about working on a fairly high-end BMW that had 23 computers. This after replacing the computer that controlled the firmness of the seats as you cornered. I asked him how many computers in a high-end Lexus. Apparently only one. His feeling was that it is crazy to own a BMW out of warranty, unless it is very old one.

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On 10/10/2019 at 10:21 PM, The Lucky One said:

The lack of common sense has apparently hit the middle aged guys as well (I'm middle age, so I can judge 'em). Was out taking my lunchtime walk, and there's a group of four of them trying to separate plastic five gallon buckets... the type that are sure to seal up when they're placed inside one another. Trying to yank on them is a futile effort, since they're fighting suction trying to pull them apart.

I walk up, slip the blade of a small penknife/multitool between the two buckets to break the seal, and pull one out of the other. It's like these folk have never worked on a farm before... oh, right.

Are there a lot of group homes where you live?

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 Hard to tell. They disguise a lot of them, these days. Generally, a large number of vehicles in the driveway plus the presence of a handicap ramp up to the front door would be a giveaway, but then you've gotta sort out the ones that have near constant yard sales on the weekends. They're just northern rednecks, but one could consider them to be a type of group home...

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20 hours ago, Ishmael said:

This has been a very handy site for learning about different Espars. http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/showthread.php?385497-HELP-with-Espar-heaters

I think he gives instructions on which pins to jumper to get the D4 going again, but I can't remember where. I'm on page 14 right now. He's in Vancouver, so can do personal troubleshooting if necessary. 

That nice old guy retired to the interior. The Victoria tech got it going for me with the proprietary software. Wouldn't mind that on a tablet to monitor the heater.

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23 hours ago, IStream said:

And the stock screws for the pump cover plate are brass, so you can forget about using a magnet when you drop them.

I keep a brass magnet on board for those occasions. Also a stainless steel magnet.

Sometimes there is a reason for tight access. In my sailplane, to change the spark plugs you first remove the engine from the fuselage. Most of the time it's just laziness and lack of thought.

One of the advantages of building your own boat (or having one built under tight supervision) is all of this stuff can be thought through. The disadvantage is when something ends up all F. U., you can only look at yourself in the mirror. My engine access is pretty good. The hydraulic panel in the pedestal is nearly impossible. All my fault. And one of the valves in the panel is leaking. My ignorance in not realizing that the hydraulics require more maintenance than the engine. 

 

ZQyAli0.jpg

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On 10/10/2019 at 4:09 AM, Steam Flyer said:

With a generation that grew up with no knowledge of basic machinery & tools, it's amazing they know the difference between oil and vinegar. Count yourself lucky.

The kids in my sailing class literally do not know a screwdriver from a wrench. It's PFM as far as they're concerned.

FB- Doug

Reminds me, there a prof at Stanford Met School, trashes anatomy.  Wrote a bestselling book called “The Hand”, which looks at how key the hand has been to human evolution, cultural development, etc.  Relates a story that med schools kids in one of his classes while, the “smartest of the smart”, don’t necessarily know —when he’s lectured and compared the heart to a pump— what a pump is.  Most have no hands-on experience working on a car, etc. etc. etc.  In this day and age, if you need to “know” something, you just look it up on Google...

(I’ll admit - my parents were “intellectuals” and did almost nothing hands-on.  I owned a motorcycle around the age of 20, which I used for motorcycle courier work one summer to earn money during university.  I was running out of town on a long delivery...ran it completely out of oil...”threw a rod”, a shop (uselessly) later tried to explain to me...I had no clue about anything :-) You have to put oil in this thing, and check it periodically?)

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44 minutes ago, Norse Horse said:

That nice old guy retired to the interior. The Victoria tech got it going for me with the proprietary software. Wouldn't mind that on a tablet to monitor the heater.

Too bad. I guess I should finish reading that thread.

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36 minutes ago, DDW said:

I keep a brass magnet on board for those occasions. Also a stainless steel magnet.

Sometimes there is a reason for tight access. In my sailplane, to change the spark plugs you first remove the engine from the fuselage. Most of the time it's just laziness and lack of thought.

One of the advantages of building your own boat (or having one built under tight supervision) is all of this stuff can be thought through. The disadvantage is when something ends up all F. U., you can only look at yourself in the mirror. My engine access is pretty good. The hydraulic panel in the pedestal is nearly impossible. All my fault. And one of the valves in the panel is leaking. My ignorance in not realizing that the hydraulics require more maintenance than the engine. 

 

ZQyAli0.jpg

That's a nice engine room. Loving that alternator.

Please post the Amazon links for those brass and stainless magnets. I bought a bunch of cheap Chinese ones but they're all defective. I guess you get what you pay for. 

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47 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Reminds me, there a prof at Stanford Met School, trashes anatomy.  Wrote a bestselling book called “The Hand”, which looks at how key the hand has been to human evolution, cultural development, etc.  Relates a story that med schools kids in one of his classes while, the “smartest of the smart”, don’t necessarily know —when he’s lectured and compared the heart to a pump— what a pump is.  Most have no hands-on experience working on a car, etc. etc. etc.  In this day and age, if you need to “know” something, you just look it up on Google...

(I’ll admit - my parents were “intellectuals” and did almost nothing hands-on.  I owned a motorcycle around the age of 20, which I used for motorcycle courier work one summer to earn money during university.  I was running out of town on a long delivery...ran it completely out of oil...”threw a rod”, a shop (uselessly) later tried to explain to me...I had no clue about anything :-) You have to put oil in this thing, and check it periodically?)

Jesus - typing on a cell phone screen.  Bad spelling.

Above, read “Med” School.  Read “teaches”, not trashes.  “There is a prof”, not there a prof.

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5 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Jesus - typing on a cell phone screen.  Bad spelling.

Above, read “Med” School.  Read “teaches”, not trashes.  “There is a prof”, not there a prof.

"Artificial Intelligence" is much much more of one that the other

- DSK

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6 hours ago, DDW said:

One of the advantages of building your own boat (or having one built under tight supervision) is all of this stuff can be thought through. The disadvantage is when something ends up all F. U., you can only look at yourself in the mirror.

Ha ha ha ha ha. This.

There are a few things on my boat that I now look at/have to service and mutter 'Just WHAT was I thinking when I did THAT?"

But, as you say - at least you know exactly who to blame......

FKT

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21 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

"Artificial Intelligence" is much much more of one that the other

- DSK

“that”.

That.

:-) 

(Don’t know if that was your own typo, or autocorrect doing that - that the worst, when it “puts word in your mouth”, so to speak- substituting a word of similar spelling to what you intend!  Like that/than.  GIGO Garbage in, garbage out)

 

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49 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

"Artificial Intelligence" is much much more of one that the other

- DSK

You learned that on PA didn't you?

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29 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

(Don’t know if that was your own typo, or autocorrect doing that - that the worst, when it “puts word in your mouth”, so to speak- substituting a word of similar spelling to what you intend!  Like that/than.  GIGO Garbage in, garbage out)

Autocorrect is my worst enema.

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On 10/10/2019 at 6:23 PM, Norse Horse said:

Then there is the person who designed the Ray plotter that forgot to let the night illumination level default back to normal on your next startup. Next morning you fire up the plotter, the screen is so dark, you can't read the menus to turn it back to daylight illumination, that button only accessed through the radar screen functions a2 menus deep. No help by trying to adjust the backlight levels up it is already maxed. I had to use a damned towel over my head to see it enough to navigate the screen to re set it.

 

Hey so my Simrad was the same way (more than once I paniced in the morning thinking it wasn't powering because the screen was set to too dim BUT - I found that if I do a couple of short presses on the power button, it cycles through backlight level, from min ->3 -> 6 - > max with each press. Give it a try - yours may be the same!

And my 2QM20 has both the horizontal oil filter (SO FUCKING STUPID) as well as the raw water pump needing to be unscrewed from the bracket and turned around to access the impeller. And then to get the belt back on you have to loosen the alternator (which is driven by the same belt) and then readjust everything

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13 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Reminds me, there a prof at Stanford Met School, trashes anatomy.  Wrote a bestselling book called “The Hand”, which looks at how key the hand has been to human evolution, cultural development, etc.  Relates a story that med schools kids in one of his classes while, the “smartest of the smart”, don’t necessarily know —when he’s lectured and compared the heart to a pump— what a pump is.  Most have no hands-on experience working on a car, etc. etc. etc.  In this day and age, if you need to “know” something, you just look it up on Google...

(I’ll admit - my parents were “intellectuals” and did almost nothing hands-on.  I owned a motorcycle around the age of 20, which I used for motorcycle courier work one summer to earn money during university.  I was running out of town on a long delivery...ran it completely out of oil...”threw a rod”, a shop (uselessly) later tried to explain to me...I had no clue about anything :-) You have to put oil in this thing, and check it periodically?)

So I have taught generations of sophomore medical students. (If I ever get hospitalized, I will have to change my name...one more reason to die at sea...) They are not very impressive, intellectually.  If I ever go to a physician, it’s to get a prescription or treatment that I already know I need.  The fuckers generally go back into their office, then come back and recite word for word the citation from “physicians desk reference” or sometimes even “Wikipedia.”  Then I get a bill for a thousand bucks for that.

Just another reference point in which “Idiocracy” is already here.  

Except for luxury treatments for the ultra-rich, a fully automated Doc-In-The-Box will be infinitely better for most of us.

BTW: Farm kids make the best doctors. Well... compared to suburban meta-infants, they make the best everything. 

 

 

 

One more BTW:  My this reminds me that my Grandad told me a story about the time he told a lie to get a job. He said, “Yes sir, of course I know how to ride a motorcycle.”  He could ride a bicycle - how much harder could it be?  This was about a hundred years ago, when they were just starting to use asphalt, and most of the streets in Portland were either cobblestone or mud. And major intersections had traffic cops, with whistles, not automatic lights.  Grandad got a job delivering the daily menu from the printers to fancy restaurants all over town.  So, the second or third day on the job, he totally wiped out in the middle of an intersection, threw mud all over the traffic cop and narrowly missed killing him...  And... the cop took him out to an empty field and taught him how to ride. 

Stuff like that just doesn’t happen any more.  It’s like - there’s no room in the world for it. 

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2 hours ago, toddster said:

Stuff like that just doesn’t happen any more.  It’s like - there’s no room in the world for it.

Seems to be forgotten now that the job of those in authority is to lead others to live a better life, through example, instruction, and only if the first two fail, through correction.........

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It's sad and funny to watch a 20something guy search for a bottle opener when virtually any object at hand can be used to open said bottle.

I poured a gallon of washer fluid into the reservoir on my wifes suby forester. Then watched as most of it dribbled out under the car. Looked under the hood and found the res not just sitting there easy to access, nope, gotta pull the front bumper plastic off to get to it.

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On 10/12/2019 at 3:19 AM, Fleetwood said:

Germans and computers are fundamentally incompatible. Probably due to their approach to doing things. Generally make good hardware tho'.....

Not when it comes to music and audio software.

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22 hours ago, DDW said:

I keep a brass magnet on board for those occasions. Also a stainless steel magnet.

Sometimes there is a reason for tight access. In my sailplane, to change the spark plugs you first remove the engine from the fuselage. Most of the time it's just laziness and lack of thought.

Very good, DDW.

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9 hours ago, toddster said:

BTW: Farm kids make the best doctors. Well... compared to suburban meta-infants, they make the best everything. 

My father always said that cruising and farming were about the same thing: most of the time spent fixing stuff. 

Intellectual curiosity about how things work has pretty much vanished. First thing I've always done when I bring something new home is take it out of the box, then take it "out of the box" (apart). I often make the mistake, when someone asks how to use a device, of first attempting to explain how it works. Without this knowledge you will not be able to use it to maximum effectiveness, know when it is broken or working well. But most people's eyes just glaze and they ask which button to push. 

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BTW, speaking of being intellectually curious - I’m currently re-reading Steve Callahan’s amazing book, “Adrift”, about the sinking of his early MiniTransat boat (pre-1983, when the race still started in Penzance).  I’d forgotten just how broadly skilled he is —his “intellectual curiosity” and ability to anticipate problems and constantly craft creative solutions in the face of truly desperate conditions being instrumental to his survival.  Quite a story...

(I remember reading it as a kid and being enthralled by the pic of him using the “sextant” [actually, a backstaff, I think - but the same concept, for measuring the angle of a celestial body above horizon] he created by lashing together a few pencils, in order to estimate his latitude.)

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10 hours ago, toddster said:

BTW: Farm kids make the best doctors. Well... compared to suburban meta-infants, they make the best everything. 

Farm kids tend to be highly motivated. They don't want to work on the farm the rest of their lives!

(Srsly: I used to teach lots of ranch kids & also non-trads from agricultural backgrounds. Most were conflicted, holding great affection for the land and animals and growing things, but wanting a life with less economic risk & less physical toil. You watch grandpa get up at 4:30 every.single.day to milk the cows and thaw the diesel lines, then die at 65 bent double from back injuries, never dined out, never took a vacation.... A career in IT starts looking pretty good.) 

ETA: There's also a sort of primogeniture at work. Farm families tend to be large, as you need lots of young hands to work the place. But only one or two kids are likely to end up owning the land, so the rest need to push off & find another career. Around here, that means nursing, education, & working the oil & gas patches, mostly.

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Things only get worse.  While "back in the day" you could do a lot of your own maintenance on vehicles, now there are more wires, controllers, and sensors than mechanical parts.  The "next gen" autos take this to a new level...……...

When Elon Musk said Tesla cars are computers on wheels, he forgot to mention they run on Linux. They also do a lot of logging. Every Tesla has an MCU, or main control unit. Version 1, also called MCUv1, equipped Tesla Model S and Model X units up to 2018. When it fails, the car simply stops. The main issue is that this excessive log file writing causes eMMC flash wear. Flash memory is generally only rated for some tens of thousands of write cycles. What happens is that the flash memory starts to fail when writings can no longer be completed. 

edited for brevity from here..... https://insideevs.com/news/376037/tesla-mcu-emmc-memory-issue/

 

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9 hours ago, Fleetwood said:

Seems to be forgotten now that the job of those in authority is to lead others to live a better life, through example, instruction, and only if the first two fail, through correction.........

You dewey-eyed dreamer you! That's the spirit!

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41 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Please, cite an example.

:-) :-) :-)

Did you want a historical one like Dunsmuir or De Cosmos or is the recent BC legislature debacle enough?

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On 10/13/2019 at 9:31 AM, IStream said:

Please post the Amazon links for those brass and stainless magnets. I bought a bunch of cheap Chinese ones but they're all defective. I guess you get what you pay for. 

Not available on Amazon. Only Alibaba - and you have to buy a full container load. Wire transfer cash in advance. I'll forward my their banking information. 

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13 minutes ago, DDW said:

Not available on Amazon. Only Alibaba - and you have to buy a full container load. Wire transfer cash in advance. I'll forward my their banking information. 

Just go the DIY road. A blob of epoxy on the end of a stick and wait until it sets.

Works every time.

Getting the screw and stick loose from the bilge is an exercise left to the student.....

FKT

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OK, my vote for crimes against humanity:

Whoever it was back in the 70's/80's who thought they could pull this country into the metric system by mixing metric and SAE hardware on the same cars.

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So I have a little company where we fit towbars, or trailer hitches if you live in murica. Sometimes I am bought in to help develop bars for the biggest manufacturer here, and I am always amazed by the engineers who have never fitted a bar in their lives. The last one I worked on started with a unit that required a bumper removal and significant cut to fit and ended, after my input, with a unit that required a small, non visible cut and no bumper removal. After we fitted the prototype (which I fabricated, because these guys couldn't weld) everyone stood around congratulating themselves on a great solution. I walked away to continue on another project. I have no formal training in anything except an apprenticeship as a boatbuilder, however I have done a few things over the years and I generally have a pretty open mind, that seems to help. 

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6 minutes ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

I have no formal training in anything except an apprenticeship as a boatbuilder, however I have done a few things over the years and I generally have a pretty open mind, that seems to help. 

PhD in life > greetings Doctor :D

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9 hours ago, wristwister said:

OK, my vote for crimes against humanity:

Whoever it was back in the 70's/80's who thought they could pull this country into the metric system by mixing metric and SAE hardware on the same cars.

throw in the occasional Torx head as well..

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17 hours ago, wristwister said:

OK, my vote for crimes against humanity:

Whoever it was back in the 70's/80's who thought they could pull this country into the metric system by mixing metric and SAE hardware on the same cars.

On another forum I haunt, there was a poster who seriously asked if it'd be OK if he milled inch threaded bolt heads to metric sizes and that would comply with the tender spec for metric sized fasteners.

It was a USA company doing the asking.

FKT

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24 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

On another forum I haunt, there was a poster who seriously asked if it'd be OK if he milled inch threaded bolt heads to metric sizes and that would comply with the tender spec for metric sized fasteners.

It was a USA company doing the asking.

FKT

I can remember when the USA led the way into the future for the entire world.

Now they can't even keep up.

Do you think the people who created this thing would have been that stupid?

image.png.e9df4375a5986b65deaa3f1eebff7a5f.png

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Yard I was working in had a 50 -60' fancy go fast boat with five (5!) stern drives in it, custom job. They were running thru sea trials before delivery to owner. Came time to do the first oil change. Engines were mounted with two down low, then three across the top. They could not get to the oil filter on the low stbd engine. Yard guy called me over to look at the situation since I was used to "working on those fooking sailboat installs". They were right, that filter was jammed against the hull with no room to unscrew it from the block. Yard had to take out the engine above it, then the engine in question, to mount remote oil filter.

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4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I can remember when the USA led the way into the future for the entire world.

Now they can't even keep up.

Do you think the people who created this thing would have been that stupid?

image.png.e9df4375a5986b65deaa3f1eebff7a5f.png

No, not at all. When I lived in Tucson I used to visit the Pima Areospace Museum and the Titan missile silo a bit south. Really stunning, high quality engineering.

I find it sad and very puzzling that they can't bring themselves to convert fully & whole-heartedly to the SI system.

Do they really think that the rest of the planet are going to have an epiphany, realise that the USE was correct all along to hold out, and revert?

Got a nice metric-sized bridge to sell if so.

FKT

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On 10/11/2019 at 8:24 PM, Ishmael said:

A copy of Lemon-Aid that I have mentions that Chrysler was supposed to up their QC to Benz standards with the merger, but it worked out the other way around.

At least the Germans managed to give Chrysler the up facing paper oil filter element.   This is a fabulous system.  So simple, no mess.

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On 10/14/2019 at 9:58 PM, wristwister said:

OK, my vote for crimes against humanity:

Whoever it was back in the 70's/80's who thought they could pull this country into the metric system by mixing metric and SAE hardware on the same cars.

Our Swedish 1972 sailboat is a total mishmash of metric & SAE. The hull-to-deck joint, for example: Most of it is 5/16"-18 carriage bolts; at the cockpit, those give over to outboard genoa tracks affixed with reduced-head M6-1.0 flat heads. The skene chocks are M6 also, but the lifeline stanchion bases came with 1/4"-20 fasteners -- but fit 25mm tubing. Thusly throughout the boat.

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15 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

On another forum I haunt, there was a poster who seriously asked if it'd be OK if he milled inch threaded bolt heads to metric sizes and that would comply with the tender spec for metric sized fasteners.

It was a USA company doing the asking.

FKT

Yeah but I bet he has good self-esteem

FB- Doug

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16 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I can remember when the USA led the way into the future for the entire world.

Now they can't even keep up.

Do you think the people who created this thing would have been that stupid?

image.png.e9df4375a5986b65deaa3f1eebff7a5f.png

And not a single metric fastener in that plane.....

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Grade 3 stepladders. How many seniors have to die falling off these before they ban these?

Canada went to a cheaper extension ladder standard as well, so light you can't separate them to use'm, they are so flimsy. If you drop the ladder once it will deflect in a lovely arch and likely remain bowed despite how hard you try to fix the engineered obsolescence.

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To get my engineering degree I had to have 2 semesters of machine shop.

We have the house where the kids all came to do their science projects. Tools and fireworks make any project fun. The kids later asked me to mentor the High School robotics team, after some issues with teachers unable or unwilling to stay late, I bought the building across from the high school and installed a robotics shop, complete with machine shop, welding area, assembly shop, and FTC practice field. We graduated some kids who know how shit works. 

We did pretty well, a couple of trips to Worlds later the school decided to bring Robotics back on campus and make it a class. Not sure they've won much since. I got my money back out of the building and moved on with my life.

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16 hours ago, longy said:

Yard I was working in had a 50 -60' fancy go fast boat with five (5!) stern drives in it, custom job. They were running thru sea trials before delivery to owner. Came time to do the first oil change. Engines were mounted with two down low, then three across the top. They could not get to the oil filter on the low stbd engine. Yard guy called me over to look at the situation since I was used to "working on those fooking sailboat installs". They were right, that filter was jammed against the hull with no room to unscrew it from the block. Yard had to take out the engine above it, then the engine in question, to mount remote oil filter.

Did they sell it like that?

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4 hours ago, DDW said:

And not a single metric fastener in that plane.....

True but that was at least 15 years before the world standardized on metric.

Well, except for the USA, Myanmar and Liberia. :rolleyes:

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2 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

To get my engineering degree I had to have 2 semesters of machine shop.

We have the house where the kids all came to do their science projects. Tools and fireworks make any project fun. The kids later asked me to mentor the High School robotics team, after some issues with teachers unable or unwilling to stay late, I bought the building across from the high school and installed a robotics shop, complete with machine shop, welding area, assembly shop, and FTC practice field. We graduated some kids who know how shit works. 

We did pretty well, a couple of trips to Worlds later the school decided to bring Robotics back on campus and make it a class. Not sure they've won much since. I got my money back out of the building and moved on with my life.

Now that is a stellar use of personal wealth.

Two thumbs up.

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I can’t say what practical experience my father had before he got his engineering degree, but he seemed to have an eye for making things workable.  Having seen him at work, helping managers of factories that supplied the company he worked for, he did a lot of good, helping them smooth out the operations and thus make as good or better a product for less money. (He also had to participate in the annual revarnishing of the wooden E-Scow, the Chris Craft and all the other wooden boats in the boat house as well as sawing the ice from around the 180 foot long boat dock in the winter as a young man.)

Our son was a sports car fanatic (still likes them) He did all the major maintenance chores including rebuilding several systems on both his and his mother’s Miatas.  He also helped me do repairs to other vehicles and boats and lawn mowers.  He also participated in his engineering class’ race car project.  

So, I would say both engineers understood what bad engineering could cause and what good engineering could accomplish. 

Its not all about just saving money, its about making things work and make them workable.  Wish that was a lesson learned by more.  

My point....DAMN PROUD OF BOTH OF THEM!  

(Didn’t hurt that my father was a better sailor/helmsman than I could ever hope to be.) 

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On ‎10‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 8:25 PM, DDW said:

I speak, in this case, about those who mount oil filters on engines sideways. This has all the elements of a terrorist attack (or at least vandalism) since it causes mass human suffering and property damage to innocent victims, and the results are completely predictable and 100% preventable.

Maybe I've gone a little too far with this, let me get another drink and think about it some more.....

Sheet harder, heel more, problem solved

 

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3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Now that is a stellar use of personal wealth.

Two thumbs up.

Don't be too impressed, I only did it for 6 years, and, exclusive of the building, it only cost me  +/- $30K/year.

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19 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

True but that was at least 15 years before the world standardized on metric.

Well, except for the USA, Myanmar and Liberia. :rolleyes:

All good company,

Still struggling to understand the advantage of the metric system (for distance measurement). Substitute a perfectly good (though arbitrary) unit of measurement for another arbitrary unit made in France. And everybody goes gaga. The French are so well known for their technical prowess - just look at their cars.....

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27 minutes ago, DDW said:

All good company,

Still struggling to understand the advantage of the metric system (for distance measurement). Substitute a perfectly good (though arbitrary) unit of measurement for another arbitrary unit made in France. And everybody goes gaga. The French are so well known for their technical prowess - just look at their cars.....

Being a Canadian designer means we have to be bilingual and speak metric and imperial. Pretty much all construction materials, due to a unified market place with the US, are in SAE / Imperial, but almost all regulations are spelled out in metric. For a renovation I can submit plans in imperial to the municipality but for new construction I have to do it in metric. It's maddening.

Most normal citizens use imperial when talking about human scale distances, but the roads and highway system are all metric, so speed and long distances are all spoken of in metric. You buy gasoline by the liter but you probably compare the prices of bananas in $/pound.

Good thing they sell metric oil filters here though. They don't leak as much as the SAE ones when changing them.

As for the benefit of metric, well mathematically a base 10 system is easier than a base 12 system to learn for most people. Simple correlations like 1 liter of fresh water is 1 KG are kind of handy too. One metric ton is 1000 KG. But it doesn't matter much when you are culturally overwhelmed by the neighbor next door.

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21 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

True but that was at least 15 years before the world standardized on metric.

Well, except for the USA, Myanmar and Liberia. :rolleyes:

The international treaty of the meter was signed in 1875...

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O/K so it was at least 15 years before the world completely adopted metric.

The treaty legitimized the system and agreed on the various units and so forth, it did not convert everyone to using it as the base measurement system.

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39 minutes ago, toddster said:

The international treaty of the meter was signed in 1875...

All USA / imperial  measurements are defined in metric values.  So an inch is 25.4mm, it used to be 25.399956mm until the inch was redefined / altered in 1959 to match  an easier Metric value. 

The usa signed the "treaty of the metre" on May 20th 1875, by the time they learn to spell metre properly they might have  learnt to use the international system of units... 

 

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35 minutes ago, The Q said:

All USA / imperial  measurements are defined in metric values.  So an inch is 25.4mm, it used to be 25.399956mm until the inch was redefined / altered in 1959 to match  an easier Metric value.

True - but I still need two sets of tools.

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