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":A 2h18 heure française, le team PRB a été informé du sauvetage de Kevin Escoffier par Jean Le Cam. " Kevin has been rescued.  

Give it a rest chaps. HB was another attempt at evolution, and they should be applauded for spending a fuck ton of money to do so. If you want to try and be innovative you run the risk of breakages al

VG sailors at sea in the rough A translation: JLC: Damien can you receive me ? DS: Yes Jean I can (garbled)... I don't think you're receiving me that well but I receive you very well. JL

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11 minutes ago, stief said:

Good point, but doubtful. You're thinking about Vincent Riou who was awarded third after losing his mast  since it related to the rescue in 2008?

More along the lines of "SI 11.1.3 Cause injury or damage, range 2, 2-24h penalty".
Boris said in his message that he hit the fishing boat.
Next question is of course if the boat was engaged in fishing or not. - We'll find out soon enough.

SI:

Quote

11.1.3 A boat that causes injury or serious damage or that obtains a significant advantage in the race as a result of his breach may ask the committee for a time penalty instead of having to retire from the race. (This changes RRS 44.1(b)). The request must be made as soon as possible. 

 

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No redress for colliding with a fishing boat of course. DSQ more likely in short races, here might be a time penalty.

Edit: Hope not. Really gutted for him

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1 minute ago, Raptorsailor said:

I swear down there’s a curse on non French people winning this race. 

2000: Ellen MacArthur

2007: Mike Golding

2016: Thomson

2020: Hermann/Thomson

And I’m sorry, but the fishing boats KNOW these boats are in the area, they KNOW we can’t see them very well on primary radar. They KNOW they’re on ais, that these skippers probably haven’t slept in the past week or so, that they’re fucking tired and for some haven’t eaten properly in a day or two. Fishing boat needs to take the blame for this. Even if single handed yachts don’t completely satisfy colregs that is a known quantity.

 

No, I do not think so. Boris as most others killed their AIS some 6? hours ago. VG boats dart with 20+ kn, fishing boats approx. 5 kn. They can trust that everybody keeps a good lookout. Usually you see fishing boats on the radar which probably was not running (no sea+watt generators engaged since hours at Boris). Same issue Volvo Ocean racer darting into harbours or reefs. So lets wait for the full story - we will get to know.

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2 minutes ago, Chasm said:

More along the lines of "SI 11.1.3 Cause injury or damage, range 2, 2-24h penalty".
Boris said in his message that he hit the fishing boat.
Next question is of course if the boat was engaged in fishing or not. - We'll find out soon enough.

Got it--thanks.

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Just now, Knut Grotzki said:

No, I do not think so. Boris as most others killed their AIS some 6? hours ago. VG boats dart with 20+ kn, fishing boats approx. 5 kn. They can trust that everybody keeps a good lookout. Usually you see fishing boats on the radar which probably was not running (no sea+watt generators engaged since hours at Boris). Same issue Volvo Ocean racer darting into harbours or reefs. So lets wait for the full story - we will get to know.

I stand corrected. 

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10 minutes ago, Raptorsailor said:

I swear down there’s a curse on non French people winning this race. 

2000: Ellen MacArthur

2007: Mike Golding

2016: Thomson

2020: Hermann/Thomson

And I’m sorry, but the fishing boats KNOW these boats are in the area, they KNOW we can’t see them very well on primary radar. They KNOW they’re on ais, that these skippers probably haven’t slept in the past week or so, that they’re fucking tired and for some haven’t eaten properly in a day or two. Fishing boat needs to take the blame for this. Even if single handed yachts don’t completely satisfy colregs that is a known quantity.

 

Dude...most fishing men are not out at sea at night in january cause they are filthy rich..That fishing boat is their income and they will definitely NOT like it if  somebody doing a bit of sport plows into their primary source of income.

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Boris's AIS has been out of order for a long time... JLC complained about it a little when they were all sailing within visual range in the indian, because a dead AIS makes it a little more complicated for those around you, so its at least since the indian...

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3 minutes ago, Knut Grotzki said:

No, I do not think so. Boris as most others killed their AIS some 6? hours ago. VG boats dart with 20+ kn, fishing boats approx. 5 kn. They can trust that everybody keeps a good lookout. Usually you see fishing boats on the radar which probably was not running (no sea+watt generators engaged since hours at Boris). Same issue Volvo Ocean racer darting into harbours or reefs. So lets wait for the full story - we will get to know.

Why the hell would they turn off their AIS?

1. They know there's lots of fishing boats around so it would be utterly stupid

2. AIS can be picked up from about 12 NM away. Nobody's that close to each other so there's no point. 

3. It's compulsary to have it on according to VG racing rules I believe so they could get a penalty if caught.

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Interesting that know one states one obvious fact, this was not serious enough to warrant Boris from having to stop and render assistance.  That would mean no one on the fishing vessel was seriously hurt or that Boris was injured.  It is interesting his continuing immediately only because in such an incident it would not be typical to do a "hit and run" so I do wonder if the fishing vessel waved off Boris for the damage was more to the sailing vessel and not the fishing vessel.

 

the story on this incident will be something.  I do agree that with these boats screaming along at 20 kts, in the dark, with tired skippers the RC could do something avoid such a moment?  the man is a short distance from a finish after sailing around the world, not how it should be.

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1 minute ago, bucc5062 said:

Interesting that know one states one obvious fact, this was not serious enough to warrant Boris from having to stop and render assistance.  That would mean no one on the fishing vessel was seriously hurt or that Boris was injured.  It is interesting his continuing immediately only because in such an incident it would not be typical to do a "hit and run" so I do wonder if the fishing vessel waved off Boris for the damage was more to the sailing vessel and not the fishing vessel.

 

the story on this incident will be something.  I do agree that with these boats screaming along at 20 kts, in the dark, with tired skippers the RC could do something avoid such a moment?  the man is a short distance from a finish after sailing around the world, not how it should be.

I've been wondering similar...  Makes me wonder how big the fishing vessel is.  If it's a beastly 120-ft steel hull thing...  Then maybe they had little to no damage, were aware of the race, and told him to go ahead and plan to sort it out later.

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3 minutes ago, stief said:

re assistance, see  #12005

Well that was also speculative and like I said, if it had been serious he would not have continued.  Words spoken in the heat of the moment may be cooler later on.'

 

 

 

edit:  I read the wrong number

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At the back of my beer felt and after a bottle of wine;

Dalin finished 19:35 CET, line honors

Burton 39/17= 2 hrs sailing ETA 28th 00:20

Herrmann 83/7=12 hrs sailing ETA 28th  10:20 -/- 6 hrs = 04:20

Ruyant 108/16,5= 6,5 hrs sailing ETA 28th 04:50

Bestaven 125/18=7 hrs sailing ETA 28th 05:20 -/- 10,25 = 27th 18:55

So when extrapolating Bestaven 1st, Dalin 2nd, Burton 3rd, Herrmann 4th, Ruyant 5th. 

So the collision could have cost Hermann a possible 3rd ranking.

Delta time between Dalin and Bestaven currently estimated at 40 minutes.. 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, haribo said:

le Cam 390sm/18kn-16.25=5.4h

boris 83sm/7kn-6=5.8h from now

go boris! clac clac is on his way

So if Boris' boat starts taking on water. JLC picks him up, redress is applied,... oh nevermind, just dreaming.

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Ruyant and Bestaven coming in at speed, they will likely finish before Boris now, unless he is okay when on port foil once he gets to their trajectory and gybes, which I somehow doubt

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1 minute ago, Knut Grotzki said:

No, I do not think so. Boris as most others killed their AIS some 6? hours ago. VG boats dart with 20+ kn, fishing boats approx. 5 kn. They can trust that everybody keeps a good lookout. Usually you see fishing boats on the radar which probably was not running (no sea+watt generators engaged since hours at Boris). Same issue Volvo Ocean racer darting into harbours or reefs. So lets wait for the full story - we will get to know.

And that is pretty much where I wonder if the International Jury will hand out a (token?) penalty to reinforce that collisions with outsiders are not ok. Esp. if the fishing boat was fishing. It does not seem to change the winner, so no major reason not to do it.
Or if they don't if someone if further up in the hierarchy of the sport will decide to adjust the rules. Obviously not now but for future races. - Working from the assumption that nobody wants a repeat of the Vestas incident.
Worst case a normal court will make an decision sooner or later. And depending on jurisdiction that would be no fun at all. Thinking back to Vestas there was a lot of uncertainty in play for a while.

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Just now, TheDragon said:

Ruyant and Bestaven coming in at speed, they will likely finish before Boris now, unless he is okay when on port foil once he gets to their trajectory and gybes, which I somehow doubt

I was wondering about this. If Boris didn’t think he could do better on starboard, wouldn’t he have been better off bearing away and trying to soak downwind straight to the line, rather than attempt to sail a crippled boat at VMG angles? 

Maybe clutching at straws, but hoping it’s a sign he thinks he can go a bit faster again after gybing...

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21 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

Interesting that know one states one obvious fact, this was not serious enough to warrant Boris from having to stop and render assistance.  That would mean no one on the fishing vessel was seriously hurt or that Boris was injured.  It is interesting his continuing immediately only because in such an incident it would not be typical to do a "hit and run" so I do wonder if the fishing vessel waved off Boris for the damage was more to the sailing vessel and not the fishing vessel.

 

the story on this incident will be something.  I do agree that with these boats screaming along at 20 kts, in the dark, with tired skippers the RC could do something avoid such a moment?  the man is a short distance from a finish after sailing around the world, not how it should be.

 

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Changing topic, and apologies for all those who think covid is just a little flu, watching this live feed he is shaking hands, hugging, and talking closely with maskless people. YIKES, does he really want to catch covid now?

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Dee and Will making good points about Charlie coming back especially to COVID challenges.

And tacking up the ramp :) 

Good job reporting a tough finish.

(now where's that vid of the COVID wine smell-taste test that @Herman might like to try)

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14 minutes ago, Herman said:

At the back of my beer felt and after a bottle of wine;

Dalin finished 19:35 CET, line honors

Burton 39/17= 2 hrs sailing ETA 28th 00:20

Herrmann 83/7=12 hrs sailing ETA 28th  10:20 -/- 6 hrs = 04:20

Ruyant 108/16,5= 6,5 hrs sailing ETA 28th 04:50

Bestaven 125/18=7 hrs sailing ETA 28th 05:20 -/- 10,25 = 27th 19:55

So when extrapolating Dalin 1st, Bestaven 2nd, Burton 3rd, Herrmann 4th, Ruyant 5th. 

So the collision could have cost Hermann a possible 3rd ranking.

 

for me it still seems that bestaven takes the trophy... just my two cents

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1 minute ago, Corryvreckan said:

Yeah, the tracker has him at only 115 miles as of 21:30, so I think he has a good shot.

He needs 14.1 knots average vmg to win

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Bravo Charlie!

Excellent race, congratulations!

 

I do like Boris' smart race and how he kept his boat in one piece (mostly) but I feel kind of sorry that the podium might be reshuffled by the redress times.

After a race like this, line honours should be just that: first in port wins the race!

Huge respect either way. :)

 

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6 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Changing topic, and apologies for all those who think covid is just a little flu, watching this live feed he is shaking hands, hugging, and talking closely with maskless people. YIKES, does he really want to catch covid now?

family, team members after being in lockdown with curfews in France, and likely having tested negative?  Notice how all others are well distanced. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Grog said:

Bravo Charlie!

Excellent race, congratulations!

 

I do like Boris' smart race and how he kept his boat in one piece (mostly) but I feel kind of sorry that the podium might be reshuffled by the redress times.

After a race like this, line honours should be just that: first in port wins the race!

Huge respect either way. :)

 

If there was no redress sailors might hesitate to help someone in trouble. It's unfortunate it has worked out this way, but Bestaven was well up near the front of the race when he was asked to divert by race control, so he must be compensated.

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6 minutes ago, PaulK said:

family, team members after being in lockdown with curfews in France, and likely having tested negative?  Notice how all others are well distanced. 

 

He reached over the barrier and shook hands with someone from the crowd, just saying. Taking a risk like that makes no sense.

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2 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

If there was no redress sailors might hesitate to help someone in trouble. It's unfortunate it has worked out this way, but Bestaven was well up near the front of the race when he was asked to divert by race control, so he must be compensated.

Yes, the way it works is the way it should, after if looking closely maybe the 6 hours should have been 6:10 or 5:55, but whatever ...

(apparently the international jury (independent from the RO), does some routing calculations, but also add some stress factor or something)

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2 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

If there was no redress sailors might hesitate to help someone in trouble. It's unfortunate it has worked out this way, but Bestaven was well up near the front of the race when he was asked to divert by race control, so he must be compensated.

Really good example of why the RC is to be commended for making the call to communicate quickly, exactly, and clearly what the redress meant. 

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And there was no guarantee at the time that Le Cam would find Escoffier, so it was essential that Bestaven and Herrmann join the search. Remember how horrible that all was?

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I'm watching Sheffield beat Man U, keeping up with the massive short seller squeeze, and trying to keep up with this amazing race. Multitasking.

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7 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Yes, the way it works is the way it should, after if looking closely maybe the 6 hours should have been 6:10 or 5:55, but whatever ...

(apparently the international jury (independent from the RO), does some routing calculations, but also add some stress factor or something)

There was a bar karate episode with Ryan Breymaier at the time of the incident and I think he said that the redress was solely based on lost time, not stress and other psychological factors. 

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14 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

If there was no redress sailors might hesitate to help someone in trouble. It's unfortunate it has worked out this way, but Bestaven was well up near the front of the race when he was asked to divert by race control, so he must be compensated.

You are absolutely right, no questions asked, and kudos to all the skippers who went to the rescue!

This race is special in more than one aspect, the very close finish being the most obvious. One point here would be that the redresses in former VGs didn't have that much of an impact.

 

Another point would be that I am a hopeless romantic when people put to sea in an epic competition like this. Oh, well ...

 

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Trying to make sense of the data from Boris.

Bobstay has little tension, so bowsprit likely damaged in collision. Tension on J2 instead holding up mast? Surprisingly equal but low tension on both outriggers, amazed the starboard one is still there if the starboard foil is damaged. 

Then on runners the starboard is slack, broken?

And nothing on either foil, presumably whole sensor system for them broken?

 

Screen Shot 2021-01-27 at 4.16.26 PM.png

Screen Shot 2021-01-27 at 4.19.41 PM.png

Screen Shot 2021-01-27 at 4.19.56 PM.png

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3 minutes ago, jonas a said:

There was a bar karate episode with Ryan Breymaier at the time of the incident and I think he said that the redress was solely based on lost time, not stress and other psychological factors. 

They said so (that they were adding some stress factor) in one of the TV channel (l'équipe TV I think), but in fact the only thing they were interested in this channel was to prop up a controversy around it, with totally non sailers related commentators giving their point of view ... So not even sure it is the case.

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1 minute ago, TheDragon said:

Apivia headed out again already?

 

 

Staying out up to the others arriving, due to the tide, and also because the boats will enter the harbour in the official win order early tomorrow morning.

(not sure if the crew on it will circle around or moore, most probably circle around)

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50 minutes ago, Varan said:

So if Boris' boat starts taking on water. JLC picks him up, redress is applied,... oh nevermind, just dreaming.

you will see, if le cam fish him up, le cam would earn an other 15h bonus and will win over all

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2 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Staying out up to the others arriving, due to the tide, and also because the boats will enter the harbour in the official win order early tomorrow morning.

(not sure if the crew on it will circle around or moore, most probably circle around)

Too rough to try and sit in one spot.  Better to keep moving.

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15 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Trying to make sense of the data from Boris.

Bobstay has little tension, so bowsprit likely damaged in collision. Tension on J2 instead holding up mast? Surprisingly equal but low tension on both outriggers, amazed the starboard one is still there if the starboard foil is damaged. 

Then on runners the starboard is slack, broken?

And nothing on either foil, presumably whole sensor system for them broken?

 

Screen Shot 2021-01-27 at 4.16.26 PM.png

Screen Shot 2021-01-27 at 4.19.41 PM.png

Screen Shot 2021-01-27 at 4.19.56 PM.png

Damage is on the port foil, not starboard, according to the early reports in the German TV livestream 

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1 hour ago, JeronimoII said:

At 1950hrs UTC this evening while racing in third place, some 90 miles from the Vendée Globe finish line off Les Sables d’Olonne German skipper Boris Herrmann (Seaexplorer-Yacht Club de Monaco) was in collision with a fishing boat. He reports damage to his starboard foil and some other damage but he is unharmed and has secured the boat and is proceeding towards the finish line at reduced speed.

Starboard foil here

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16 minutes ago, yl75 said:

They said so (that they were adding some stress factor) in one of the TV channel (l'équipe TV I think), but in fact the only thing they were interested in this channel was to prop up a controversy around it, with totally non sailers related commentators giving their point of view ... So not even sure it is the case.

It would be very difficult to hand out "stress redress" fairly. In a sense it would be as stressful for those not attending the search, knowing that there is a friend in an emergency and there is nothing they can do. 

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Just gutted for Boris. 
 

I’m not gonna lie- I don’t know if I had a ‘favorite’ this go around (because @Haji wasn’t in it!) but the level of competition, the data available, the characters involved, the boats, the... everything... just made this really enjoyable this year- especially THIS year... when probably more than a few of us needed it...

So, congrats to ALL competitors- congrats to Charlie- get it home safe Boris- watch out for fishing boats Yannick- keep sailing Sam (awesome!)... just too many great stories!

And, finally, all y’all that know far more about ocean racing than I do - thanks for your polar/routing/speculation/weather/foiling information the whole time... it was fantastic to read and I, for one, really appreciated it...

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25 minutes ago, jonas a said:

It would be very difficult to hand out "stress redress" fairly. In a sense it would be as stressful for those not attending the search, knowing that there is a friend in an emergency and there is nothing they can do. 

But in fact they indeed  do "add in" some fatigue and stress factors aside from the pure routing calculations :

Quote

"On a demandé à la direction de course de fournir le scénario de ce qui s'est vraiment passé sur l'eau. Il a fallu trouver le temps pendant lequel ces bateaux ont été hors-course. De là on a fait une première estimation du temps. On doit aussi prendre en compte la fatigue, le stress, ce qui s'est passé sur l'eau. On fait une addition et on obtient les résultats communiqués aujourd'hui (mercredi)", a détaillé Georges Priol.

https://www.francetvinfo.fr/sports/voile/vendee-globe/vendee-globe-le-skipper-jean-le-cam-est-bonifie-de-16-heures-pour-avoir-sauve-kevin-escoffier_4221949.html

Would be nice to know whether this is really a minimal percentage of the total bonification times or not.

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Yannick still coming in hot at 19 kts with 87.3 miles to go (at 23:00)

Quote

With 96 nautical miles to the finish line at 2230hrs UTC Yannick Bestaven has to cross the finish line before 0550hrs 47mins UTC if he is to better Charlie Dalin's elapsed time of 80d 06h 15m 47s. Bestaven is making 18kts and needs to average 13,5kts. So things are looking good for Bestaven

https://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/21993/news-update-bestaven-looking-good

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Really interesting race. Between the latest generation foils and the more chaotic weather for the first 2/3 of the race, the cards got reshuffled. Then for Boris to clip a fishing vessel within 90 miles of the finish.

 Congratulations, to Charlie, Louis, Thomas and Yannick. Hopefully, Boris gets in to salvage a podium spot. But, more importantly safely. 

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Hard to understand why Boris persists slowly on same course, why not soak off downwind if only able to do 6 knots? Ruyant and Bestaven will cross cleanly head of him.

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19 minutes ago, ant1 said:

Dalin press conference (english live translation):

 

 

What a shit show. Shut the fuck up and let us hear from, Charlie.

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2 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Not anymore

I hope at some point Boris explains what’s happened - I’m guessing he’s working his ass off trying to find some way to get a bit of speed back. I’d love to understand what’s behind the data - like this big increase in outrigger load just now:

 

AA771085-0D6D-46A2-8E70-E5C642D2F4D1.jpeg

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14 minutes ago, Potter said:

It will still be Alec and Dee, maybe Will. Andi is busy doing all the English language writing that goes out.  He really deserves a medal for essentially being the international arm of the VG media.

Agree. This edition he has really been doing well. Last edition he seemed, . . . tired. This one he really seems to enjoy how well his work has paid off lining up interesting guests that gave insight into the teams behind the skippers.  Impressed he was comfortable bantering with Dumard, Caraes,  Mermod and other "big wigs". And even though he hit my cringe bone with the 'feelings' occasionally, he wasn't afraid to bring up good points about the 'social'  and environment issues.

(was most disappointed with Mark Turner, and that the VG don't give bylines to the writers, but I'm rambling).

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I was chided earlier for suggesting the commentators needed to let us know about Boris. Now I'm amazed that Will is not giving us any details about his damage, just generalities.

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5 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Hard to understand why Boris persists slowly on same course, why not soak off downwind if only able to do 6 knots? Ruyant and Bestaven will cross cleanly head of him.

I wondered this somewhere upthread. 

Best case scenario, he reckons he can still go full chat on starboard and this painful crawl north, followed by a gybe and fast leg to the finish is overall quicker. Dunno though, we’ll see...

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2 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

I was chided earlier for suggesting the commentators needed to let us know about Boris. Now I'm amazed that Will is not giving us any details about his damage, just generalities.

? (I missed that . . . have to go back and check later it wasn't inadvertently me. Apologies just in case)

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