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23 minutes ago, Hitchhiker said:

Nope. Welsh, Irish, Scots are all celts (hard C) descended from Gauls. Which is why the English are always so pissed off at them.  BTW. Asterix and Obelix are your best source of English history!

"so pissed off"

'Indifferent' OR 'disdain' is closer for the English ...."the pissed off" at the English belongs to the other 3 in the Union of 4 and in order of 'pissed off'  Irish, Scots and Welsh.

The Irish are in fact at another level called 'mega pissed off' largely because their pissed off began over 800 years ago and has not let up to this day. Interspersed with being starved to death by the English in the 1800's, promised home rule then had that withdrawn and instead sent to the Western front in WWI followed by partition and then 80 years of bloodshed up until 20 years ago.....the list goes on. 

Back to normal programming. :D

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":A 2h18 heure française, le team PRB a été informé du sauvetage de Kevin Escoffier par Jean Le Cam. " Kevin has been rescued.  

Give it a rest chaps. HB was another attempt at evolution, and they should be applauded for spending a fuck ton of money to do so. If you want to try and be innovative you run the risk of breakages al

VG sailors at sea in the rough A translation: JLC: Damien can you receive me ? DS: Yes Jean I can (garbled)... I don't think you're receiving me that well but I receive you very well. JL

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Congratulations Yannick! I just came here to point out that somehow, despite the drama of the rescue, Maitre Coq leading after the Horn and then losing so many miles, then clawing back to the win, and Besthaven even thanking the 3500 staff and farmers of Maitre Coq in his last video, no one here made any  comments about not counting your chickens before they've hatched. 

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7 hours ago, Chasm said:

Next question is of course if the boat was engaged in fishing or not.

A fishing boat only is the stand on vessel if trawling or has nets out (like a gillnet). Other types of fishing like trolling that do not restrict your ability to maneuver don't count.

Fishing boats, especially when fishing, often do a really shitty job of keeping a lookout. They'll have working lights on, might be working the gear (deploy or retrieve) and just don't notice other boats heading to them at 20 knots.

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4 hours ago, Oxon said:

When Borris' technical manager gave an interview for Andi yesterday, he described the technical team as including four people and Will was not one of them. 

Will also may have signed a deal to do the commentary and can't back out.  Malizia would have supported that as it provides them additional visibility.  Now, it may be coming back to bite both in the butt.  

I am don't understand why Borris is sailing this hot.  I'm not sure what wx routing would suggest this as optimal.  At the same time, I don't know what repair would be easier in this condition vs cracking off a bit.  Borris is definitely working on the boat (see below).  But I have never sailed an IMOCA- so what do I know?

image.thumb.png.735d093cb33d9a130067c0a607080462.png

May be he wants to keep one shroud always under tension as the opposite one is a bit iffy. ...

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5 minutes ago, Zonker said:

A fishing boat only is the stand on vessel if trawling or has nets out (like a gillnet). Other types of fishing like trolling that do not restrict your ability to maneuver don't count.

Fishing boats, especially when fishing, often do a really shitty job of keeping a lookout. They'll have working lights on, might be working the gear (deploy or retrieve) and just don't notice other boats heading to them at 20 knots.

Sure about this?

My understanding is that as soon as they are fishing they are stand on. Pretty sure that a French fisherman wouldn't budge as soon as he is vaguely fishing. But then may be they've educated us badly and they always "forget" to switch off their fishing lights anyway!

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Just now, Zonker said:

A fishing boat only is the stand on vessel if trawling or has nets out (like a gillnet). Other types of fishing like trolling that do not restrict your ability to maneuver don't count.

Fishing boats, especially when fishing, often do a really shitty job of keeping a lookout. They'll have working lights on, might be working the gear (deploy or retrieve) and just don't notice other boats heading to them at 20 knots.

In the video Boris said that it was a trawler. Might not have been an actual trawler, might not have been trawling.
We should get more information soon enough. High profile incident and the accusation that the fisher was running without AIS. Sounds like a surprise inspection to me.

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5 minutes ago, Chasm said:

In the video Boris said that it was a trawler. Might not have been an actual trawler, might not have been trawling.
We should get more information soon enough. High profile incident and the accusation that the fisher was running without AIS. Sounds like a surprise inspection to me.

At least according to his video multiple systems failed. AIs, radar among them. Analysis is going to be interesting and most likely thankfully not for the overall win ;)

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4 hours ago, winchfodder said:

Looks possible fishing boat did not have AIS on (which is illegal)

I don't know specific French law about AIS carriage, but depending on the size of the trawler it might not be required to be fitted. A "cargo ship" is a pretty broad definition and doesn't mean a freighter specifically. Generally often means "not a passenger ship" at the IMO. Here's the IMO reg:

https://www.imo.org/en/OurWork/Safety/Pages/AIS.aspx#:~:text=Regulations for carriage of AIS&text=The regulation requires AIS to,passenger ships irrespective of size.

"The regulation requires AIS to be fitted aboard all ships of 300 gross tonnage and upwards engaged on international voyages, cargo ships of 500 gross tonnage and upwards not engaged on international voyages and all passenger ships irrespective of size"

A local fishing trawler (i.e. not on international voyages) of about 40m / 130' might well be under 500 GT.

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19 minutes ago, Zonker said:

A fishing boat only is the stand on vessel if trawling or has nets out (like a gillnet). Other types of fishing like trolling that do not restrict your ability to maneuver don't count.

Fishing boats, especially when fishing, often do a really shitty job of keeping a lookout. They'll have working lights on, might be working the gear (deploy or retrieve) and just don't notice other boats heading to them at 20 knots.

He also says he was asleep. That he 'confesses' that speaks to his integrity and sportsmanship. 

But per 'ze leeuuw', that puts the case to rest, afaic.

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7 minutes ago, stief said:

Gotta grin: Yannick looks fiercely proud and determined shaking the trophy down that walkway, and then to meet Kevin at the end--perfect.

I am missing this. Link?

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10 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

My understanding is that as soon as they are fishing they are stand on

Please read the COLREGs. It depends on the TYPE of fishing. (and of course we do not know if the vessel had nets, trawls, in use; it could have been just underway)

Rule 3 General definitions 

(d) The term “vessel engaged in fishing” means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls or other fishing apparatus which restrict manoeuvrability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict manoeuvrability.


In other words if you're a fishing boat and can get out the way just like a regular power boat, you have no special rights. If you have a net out or a big trawl that restricts how much you can turn or adjust speed, you're a fishing boat.

 

Just now, Matagi said:

He also says he was asleep. That he 'confesses' that speaks to his integrity and sportsmanship. 

But per the 'law', that puts the case to rest, afaic.

But don't forget the the fishing vessel is also obligated to keep a watch and keep clear if a vessel on a collision course doesn't alter course. That's why cases of collisions that go to a court seldom find 100% fault with one vessel. Yes, if you're asleep, the court is not going to look favourably on you. But same if the watch stander on the fishing boat goes to the head or is grabbing a cup of coffee.

Rule 17 Action by stand-on vessel

(b) When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision

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So. This question may have been raised much earlier and I missed it. If so, please excuse y ignorance.  I am a bear of very little brain.  But, if the ice limits had not been set so far north, would it have been possible for this race to be more spread out.

Secondly, now that we have seen such a close finish, could this course be a model for future races?

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21 minutes ago, Hitchhiker said:

So. This question may have been raised much earlier and I missed it. If so, please excuse y ignorance.  I am a bear of very little brain.  But, if the ice limits had not been set so far north, would it have been possible for this race to be more spread out.

Secondly, now that we have seen such a close finish, could this course be a model for future races?

Hmmm. That's an eye opener. I think it has real potential. First time my old tired brain has heard the idea the race is closer--better racing-- because of the limits. The usual griping is that the limits infringe them going more south, countered by the dislike of supporting a blood sport. 

I like the thought the race might be closer and more sporting at these latitudes.  Ari and Miranda so chose to route even more north. There's still the  Indian and the Horn passages to make the race tough enough. And the Bay of Biscay of course.

Brain dead now here. Someone will have a better idea.

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1 hour ago, Hitchhiker said:

But, if the ice limits had not been set so far north, would it have been possible for this race to be more spread out.

Good question.

I think you will get two different answers depending on the latitude of the lows going west to east, particularly in section CT to NZ at race time, then add weather probability.

If weather forces more/better routing opportunities north then ice fence doesn't play a big part. Fleet will segregate or spread out more according to individual performance.

However if more/better routing opportunities to the south BUT with a ice fence, particularly one that varies in lattitude a lot, then fleet will tend to aggregate or compress, particularly around the most northern points of the ice fence. No ice fence big gaps in the fleet will appear.

The question then is probability of weather favouring north or south for greater/better routing opportunities? The answer is definitely south. 

So on average a ice fence WILL compress the fleet. This year looked pretty average, hence the result. Ice fence also favours daggerboard boats as it does stop the foilers stretching out and catching a LP that others miss.

I could have just said YES. :D

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43 minutes ago, stief said:

Hmmm. That's an eye opener. I think it has real potential. First time my old tired brain has heard the idea the race is closer--better racing-- because of the limits. The usual griping is that the limits infringe them going more south, countered by the dislike of supporting a blood sport. 

I like the thought the race might be closer and more sporting at these latitudes.  Ari and Miranda so chose to route even more north. There's still the  Indian and the Horn passages to make the race tough enough. And the Bay of Biscay of course.

Brain dead now here. Someone will have a better idea.

Closer for sure. Better racing? No.

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1 hour ago, stief said:

Live back Live.

Thanks Postman, I would have missed it in live, otherwise.

What a wonderful and worthy reception of Yannick, the undisputed winner of this super competitive Vendée Globe, who's first words were that it was not only a dream, but a hallucination for him.

Plenty of supporters, despite the Covid restrictions, and plenty fireworks too. Just a pity he did not get his double handflare picture, but he did get a very tasteful Globe trophy alright!

Was watching it initially on the English live, but by golly what a boring lot of technocrat reporters there, and switched to the French for plenty of emotions. Good to see Thomas Ruyant come in, as well as Charlie Dalin and Kevin Escoffier on the dock. Did I perhaps miss Louis Burton? He did a very good presser earlier, answering all the questions carefully and extensively, as if he had just turned up for a days work.

Now the waiting is for poor Boris, who may have jinxed himself when he said earlier that he had "the right of way" over that freighter. Didn't deserve it though...

 

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9 hours ago, stief said:

now where's that vid of the COVID wine smell-taste test that @Herman might like to try

I was testing the whole bottle to see if I still could taste a bit and tested negative :D

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9 hours ago, steinbrenner said:

for me it still seems that bestaven takes the trophy... just my two cents

Indeed, I made a 1hr calculation error with Bestaven last night and adjusted the ETA for him in my post while you posted this. 

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22 minutes ago, mario147 said:

One for the shoulda coulda exercise... Now we know actual times for the top contenders, and if Boris were able to keep his pre colision performance... where could he be? 1st? 2nd? 3rd?

Either 2 or 3, but more 3 than 2 seems to me, it was really close, and right now him being 4th is still possible.

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8 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Either 2 or 3, but more 3 than 2 seems to me, it was really close, and right now him being 4th is still possible.

 

JLC could nick 4th place (after his redress) - 176nm DTF, and maintaining 18knt VMG - and Boris won't cross the line for another 2 hours or so.

I'd be gutted for Boris to lose another place, but can't really begrudge it going to Le Cam! 

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6 minutes ago, jimmyuk81 said:

 

JLC could nick 4th place (after his redress) - 176nm DTF, and maintaining 18knt VMG - and Boris won't cross the line for another 2 hours or so.

I'd be gutted for Boris to lose another place, but can't really begrudge it going to Le Cam! 

Le Cam still has at least one gybe to make, so actual distance to sail is much more.... We'll see!

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Phew, what a race... The Cock wins... with hours (better for Dalin, a few minutes would be harder).
This race in Covid times was a real bonus. Hats of to organizers.

Now how is Ari doing ?

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The German TV will try to get a signal from the VG, starting live at 10:00 UTC / 11:00 CET: the live stream will also be shwon on this site: Yacht Magazine

Edit: Very Lazy Yack beat me

Edit 2: this German livestream will now be at 1300UTC, when boris arrives into the channel in Le Sables.

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Yannick deserved the win IMO. He stopped to help in a crisis and then went on to generate a 400 mile lead that was later evaporated. He obviously put together a reliable boat and in the end that and his weather routing and tactics got him the overall win. There's a lesson to be learnt going forward and that is reliability comes 1st, speed comes second IMO. Well done to all the skippers who make the course in what will be considered a very difficult  Vendee. 

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Frustrating the live looks set to miss Boris arriving... :(

Just behind him looks like it's going to be very close between Seguin and Pedote. I thought Pedote had enough to get clear ahead when they were just inside the 200nm circle, but since then Seguin has done a great job of sailing lower and at times faster. I think he's now close enough to sneak in ahead, but let's see how fast Pedote can go following his gybe...

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Very impressive to see how the starboard foil is swinging with the waves. Must have been a pretty harsh crash. Amazing that he was able to make it hold together

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I wonder what about possible outside assistance in Boris' case? I understood him his sails and shrouds were entangled with fishing boat cranes, is it allowed in this case to get help from fishing boat crew to set him free again? or he made it himself anyway? Bernard Stamm's case comes to mind and the rules were/are pretty rigorous

on the other hand I hope he hasn't received any help or the rule doesn't apply if he has, I was really gutted for him and rooting for him all the way, not to mention that I've been living in Hamburg for five years and hoped that the win comes this time in HH 

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Is that a crack at the hull-deck join, and another crack or two running down from there? - the damage to the foil might be the least of the problems, the internal supporting structure must be a bit unhealthy which must be the real worry and reason to have taken the foot off the pedal.Is that a crack at the hull-deck join, and another crack or two running down from there - the damage to the foil might be the least of the problems, the internal supporting structure must be a bit unhealthy which must be the real worry and reason to have taken the foot off the pedal.

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1 minute ago, Bilge Boy said:

Is that a crack at the hull-deck join, and another crack or two running down from there? - the damage to the foil might be the least of the problems, the internal supporting structure must be a bit unhealthy which must be the real worry and reason to have taken the foot off the pedal.Is that a crack at the hull-deck join, and another crack or two running down from there - the damage to the foil might be the least of the problems, the internal supporting structure must be a bit unhealthy which must be the real worry and reason to have taken the foot off the pedal.

You can say that again...

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With the side bashed in over the foil this looks like an expensive repair. Loose/shifted foil case. 
Looks in some shots like the bowsprit got partly shoved into the boat as well.
Then there is also the mast that needs a close look.

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1 minute ago, terrafirma said:

Don't these boats have radar? Re Boris....?

Check out his video (upthread) - he was asleep but had AIS and radar alarms set. For some reason, they didn't go off - I'm sure Boris and team will be investigating to find out why...!

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17 minutes ago, jimmyuk81 said:

Damn, that foil is seriously fucked isn't it. :o

@steinbrenner - the way Boris described the incident in his video, he managed to "slip past" the fishing boat (IIRC) to get free - I don't think any of the crew were involved.

thanks, I should listen to the video again, this time more carefully

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23 minutes ago, steinbrenner said:

I wonder what about possible outside assistance in Boris' case? I understood him his sails and shrouds were entangled with fishing boat cranes, is it allowed in this case to get help from fishing boat crew to set him free again?

 
"
41. OUTSIDE HELP
 
A boat shall not receive help from any outside source, except
  1. after a collision, help from the crew of the other vessel to get clear

"

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sorry if it has been mentioned before, but the live coverage of the finishes is a joke... some shots of the boat, a french VG guy talking with Andis voice on top, no idea where the line is... and shortly after the cross, they're cutting off :angry:

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4 minutes ago, ET1 said:

Don´t think there are cracks. In the second pic you can see that there are ropes hanging down to the foil

Bowsprit smashed off, stbd foil seriously chewed up and floppy from loss of structural integrity, scars on topsides from scraping along the fishing boat - it's a frigging miracle the outrigger survived (especially considering the capshroud was torn from the mast) and the mast still stands!

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15 minutes ago, k-f-u said:

sorry if it has been mentioned before, but the live coverage of the finishes is a joke... some shots of the boat, a french VG guy talking with Andis voice on top, no idea where the line is... and shortly after the cross, they're cutting off :angry:

Absolutely terrible ... worst ever ... one would think, they will pay more attention to it, when its online only .. total BS  ..

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1 minute ago, Whinging Pom said:

Where's Giancarlo off to?  Another gybe methinks.  Well done to Damian holding off the foiler.

I can't imagine another gybe will make much difference at this point.  Just point the bow at the finish and experience the moment.

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45 minutes ago, jimmyuk81 said:

Check out his video (upthread) - he was asleep but had AIS and radar alarms set. For some reason, they didn't go off - I'm sure Boris and team will be investigating to find out why...!

'Others' will too. But that us for a different day.

Thank you, Boris, welcome home!

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Just now, Haji said:

Bravo Damien

Amazing performance.  Old, non-foiling boat, and a skipper with just one hand!  Incredible!  WFD Damien!   

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