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":A 2h18 heure française, le team PRB a été informé du sauvetage de Kevin Escoffier par Jean Le Cam. " Kevin has been rescued.  

Give it a rest chaps. HB was another attempt at evolution, and they should be applauded for spending a fuck ton of money to do so. If you want to try and be innovative you run the risk of breakages al

VG sailors at sea in the rough A translation: JLC: Damien can you receive me ? DS: Yes Jean I can (garbled)... I don't think you're receiving me that well but I receive you very well. JL

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10 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Aren't you back with a vengeance.! 

Convid totally screwed my 2020 (like most) delivery work and any racing travel and didn't get into VG pre start this year for some reason. Haven't called anyone a cunt here so anger management must have worked. :lol:

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3 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Convid totally screwed my 2020 (like most) delivery work and any racing travel and didn't get into VG pre start this year for some reason. Haven't called anyone a cunt here so anger management must have worked. :lol:

Cheers mate yeah COVID was a bummer. I managed to stop drinking and started MTB riding (Albeit electric pedal assist for my age) COVID was the catalyst for me albeit we charted a Cat in the Whitsundays 2 years ago and haven't gotten there yet with COVID being the 2nd reason (1st Long Story) so hope to get there 3rd time lucky. Not sure about swimming up there though. 

 

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15 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:
16 hours ago, oioi said:

Le Cam starting to gain some separation with a more easterly route,  hoping it pays of and keeps him in contention. 

That could be very interesting for le Cam and a move done with intent. He is banking on a foiler park up on the outside and maybe even one for those up front if the high shuts the door on their escape.  Leaves him with less miles in the lighter air that's all over the place

^^^^^ This plan of le Cam's unfolding well.  

 

IMG_20201122_180325.jpg

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47 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

Looks like he's trying to limp in the right direction while fixing something.  No good reason to keep heading SE if you're definitely out of the race. 

He has some bullet proof balls and attitude... that's for sure... still heading same course SE!... a big hurray for the relentless sailor... I'm sure he and his outstanding team will find a positive solution to this disgrace... VAMOS MELON

But Fck, the image of his boat in the hub is so sinister and disturbing  :ph34r:

HBBowUW.thumb.jpg.abd2db9f2d93e03e436a387e7f3ff057.jpg

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7 hours ago, littlechay said:

You are much more organised and great spreadsheet by the way! 

I don't have an IMOCA foiler ploar ( anybody got pointers to one online? ) so I have tweaked a an old file and have been playing with the percentages on each boat; much as you have. Initially a guess based on boat and skipper then trial and error comparing actual with predicted. 

I currently have the polar that I have at around 130 - 135% for the top few boats.

Thanks, that fleet assessment is still WIP.

This is the best source I know for generating polars; http://toxcct.free.fr/polars/generator.htm. I use the IMOCA 60 foils and have set those to 102% for top boats and experienced skippers. There is are also non-foiling polars. Lots of input variables to play around with too. 

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18 hours ago, JonRowe said:

Good reading, thanks for sharing again. That cold front Richomme is referring to is the SACZ. Which is projected to relocate to the east today. 

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32 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

^^^^^ This plan of le Cam's unfolding well.  

 

IMG_20201122_180325.jpg

He's been working the inside lane like a wild boar since tropical storm Theta (less miles for his oldie boat and body...) which is quite logic given his technical disadvantage... a big hurray also for the King Jean... and his universally aclaimed and unique clac clac clac attitude... what a sailor!

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18 hours ago, Snowden said:

will be interesting to see how Beyou gets around the big hole North of Cape Verde. expected to see him trying to get West on this sked

Nope, steady heading SSW.

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1 hour ago, SCARECROW said:

Looks like he's trying to limp in the right direction while fixing something.  No good reason to keep heading SE if you're definitely out of the race. 

Oh no. This is gutting... 

It's very unlikely he will be able to push in Southern Ocean - and that's the best case scenario... 

Of course nothing has been confirmed, but just as the race was beginning to heat up... :(

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5 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Wise thought. 8th shark attack death today (WA) and one shy of 1929 annual record of 9. 

Yeah Cable Beach today, shocker. Sharks and Crocs almost out of control. It will get worse before it gets better.And then if they don't get you an Irukandji might. 

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7 hours ago, Icedtea said:

That message is a "boat's fucked, we're trying to work out how to get it home" message, not a let's see how we can continue message

No duct tape and a bit of bricolage then?

But seriously FFS what a shitty news for AT, unbelievable. Gutted for the man.

https://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/20472/hugo-boss-slowed-after-possible-structural-issue-concern-leaders-deal-with-south-atlantic-doldrums

 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Discussed upthread about little media coverage in UK about Brit skippers even AT. 

However AT does a weekly diary every Saturday for The Times in yellow, out earllier on line.

This just out but obviously dated. Interesting to see if they run a special update today in Sunday Times. 

Pay-walled unfortunately.

20 Nov - The Times - Alex Thomson: crossing the Doldrums is stressful – you have to forgo sleep

"The problem with following is, depending on how far behind you are, you can miss a change in weather and get left behind, and then it can be all over. That’s what always worries me." 

If that is how he feels normally this incident will knock him around if gets chance to continue. Likes leading, not following.  

 

 

Good grief you are a pompous ass....

 

If one has confidence in their tactics then of course they want to be ahead and call their shots.  Being behind is just hoping for something to go wrong for the leader.

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2 minutes ago, Herman said:

No duct tape and a bit of bricolage then?

But seriously FFS what a shitty news for AT, unbelievable. Gutted for the man.

https://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/20472/hugo-boss-slowed-after-possible-structural-issue-concern-leaders-deal-with-south-atlantic-doldrums

 

When you consider the boat had already been re-built and the focus was on reliability it shouldn't happen. But off course it continues to haunt many a sailor. A Vendee Skipper's worse nightmare. At least he's safe. But I suspect this was his last hurrah.! This will be a French dominated event for a long time to come..! 

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23 minutes ago, MastaVonBlasta said:

Oh no. This is gutting... 

It's very unlikely he will be able to push in Southern Ocean - and that's the best case scenario... 

Of course nothing has been confirmed, but just as the race was beginning to heat up... :(

It's sickening but it's very hard to read the message from his team any other way then "boat is fucked, game over". 

 

Gutting for him. 

He's not stupid enough to do the southern ocean in a limping boat for the sake of completeness either 

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If the issue is with the hull itself, I don't see how he could repair anything while on the water (moving pressure and everything), but maybe it is something else, like a foil casing, main sheet system or something, and then something could be possible.

Was going full on through Theta the reason ?

Anyway that really sucks, an Alex victory in this one would have been great for everybody.

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7 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Was going full on through Theta the reason ?

That’s what everyone will be wondering... but he went very slowly through Theta. Very cautious. Yes, big waves but he did it at half-pace.

Shouldn’t these boats cope with 6 hours’ heavy slamming on waves?

But I would tend to add my vote to speculation that if it is a major hull/frame structure issue the decision about his race would be a quick one. 

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Poor Alex, I know it's cliche to say it but he really doesn't have luck on his side. (Some may say you make your own luck but really with the team he has behind him, I'm not sure thats the case here, they would have pulled out all the stops to make the boat as tough as it can be). Good luck Alex and team and I hope something can be salvaged.

Pure speculation on my part but I wonder if it could be bowsprit / forestay related, the bad sensor read would make sense, as if it was ripped off it'd read 0 whilst other sensors continued to work ok (and thus the -1.3 is just calibration from 0). Given the multiple forestays in the sails, a loss of one wouldn't be immediately game over, but you'd need to back the hell off and work out what was compromised and what to do which sort of fits with whats happening. Could just be wishful thinking on my part though.

Edit: Hadn't seen the AIS course change, that does make my theory even less likely (I mean it was already a shot in the dark).

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12 minutes ago, Rafael said:

HBSW.thumb.jpg.5cec1280d371beab8b64385be29fceff.jpg

He is now pointing SW...

If confirmed that he is heading SW, then he might be trying to get across the convergence zone to get back to Brasil. Bad news...

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48 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

When you consider the boat had already been re-built and the focus was on reliability it shouldn't happen. But off course it continues to haunt many a sailor. A Vendee Skipper's worse nightmare. At least he's safe. But I suspect this was his last hurrah.! This will be a French dominated event for a long time to come..! 

Can't fault his determination but maybe he still hasn't learnt to pace himself - and more importantly the boat - and pushing too hard in the rough stuff earlier would be my reckoning.  Made the break but it's turned around and bitten him.

Have to wonder what le Cam would do with a new boat! 

 

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21 minutes ago, KingMonkey said:

That’s what everyone will be wondering... but he went very slowly through Theta. Very cautious. Yes, big waves but he did it at half-pace.

Shouldn’t these boats cope with 6 hours’ heavy slamming on waves?

But I would tend to add my vote to speculation that if it is a major hull/frame structure issue the decision about his race would be a quick one. 

The decision has been made. 

They're waiting until this afternoon to announce, giving time to put together a statement etc

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If the AIS position is correct, one may assume that Alex is going to try and make for Brazil, where he may try to repair the boat properly, unfortunately that will be the end of the race for him if he gets outside help, as the rules don't allow for outside assistance.

The other chance is that he needs to turn the boat onto another course to help with a self repair. Either way good luck Alex, we all admire you.

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8 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Which AIS site is reporting that? 

marinetraffic.com
Just look at the map in the right place. Not labeled who is who but obvious enough even without looking closer at the data.
There is a delay on the satellite ais data. currently about half an hour.

vesselfinder.com has similar data.

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4 minutes ago, Chasm said:

 

marinetraffic.com
Just look at the map in the right place. Not labeled who is who but obvious enough even without looking closer at the data.
There is a delay on the satellite ais data. currently about half an hour.

vesselfinder.com has similar data.

Cheers

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JLC should really fall behind in the southern ocean. But it looks like he is able and willing to keep the pressure on.
He is still about a day ahead of the next conventional boat, as soon as foiler has problems he moves up in the rankings. No time to snooze for any of them.

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2 hours ago, Rainier said:

Good grief you are a pompous ass.

If one has confidence in their tactics then of course they want to be ahead and call their shots.  Being behind is just hoping for something to go wrong for the leader.

"Good grief you are a pompous ass

If one has confidence in their tactics then of course they want to be ahead and call their shots..."

He said nothing like that. 

His words.

"The problem with following is, depending on how far behind you are, you can miss a change in weather and get left behind, and then it can be all over. That’s what always worries me." 

So take your complaint up with AT, his words not mine.  

Call a friend if your feeling suicidal. 

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Jean Le Cam and clac clac clac is, I believe, the voice instruction needed to activate switching cameras. He had to learn how to use it in a previous race and made fun of himself as usual.

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Thinking of Boss cockpit after seeing DailyMail picture.
So he closed of the old cockpit and made it an auxiliary room with a seat.
Moved winches and coffeegrinder to the place where the old ones have their chart table. Working from the belly of the beast. Dry and more comfortable.
Shortening the halyards route, elongate the sheets and runners.
In the past the halyards were in a tunnel, and now I presume the runners and sheets.
Hat's of for trying something new.

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30 minutes ago, noaano said:

temp.png

 

Good work. That tells a story. 

BTW see how a near dead zone appeared of around 1 degree or 4+ hours on updates....so sliding away from MT's subscriber satellite paths.

That has now unfortunately put HB in the dark zone or is that last ping current time?

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Thomas Ruyant had to climb his mast but he never stopped, sounds like he took a real beating during the operation

https://www.vendeeglobe.org/fr/actualites/20480/ascension-du-mat-de-thomas-ruyant

It has to set new system to put headsails going to the top of the mast as both his system broke and he couldn't set any big headsail. Should be fixed by now. Could barely see him slowing down on the tracker.

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1 hour ago, Icedtea said:

The decision has been made. 

They're waiting until this afternoon to announce, giving time to put together a statement etc

If they have to wait that long, it can't be good. Really sorry for AT. 

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33 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

That has now unfortunately put HB in the dark zone or is that last ping current time?

31 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

^^^^^^^ Moving SE but out of Sat view??

33 minutes ago, Rafael said:

Looks like he is drifting

 

27 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

^^^^^^^ Moving SE but out of Sat view??

33 minutes ago, MastaVonBlasta said:

So sad to see him heading SW now... This must be game over... 

 

Ignore that should have waited for tracker update. He is hove to.

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TEAM UPDATE:

Ross Daniel, Technical Director at Alex Thomson Racing: 

“Yesterday evening (Saturday 21st November), while Alex was carrying out a routine inspection onboard HUGO BOSS, he spotted what he believed to be some structural damage in the bow area of the boat. He immediately notified myself and the team on shore, and we provided clear instructions to allow him to carry out a full inspection of the damage. 

“That inspection has revealed some structural damage to a longitudinal beam at the front of the boat. The damage appears to be isolated to that area alone. It is yet unclear what caused this damage. There have been no incidents of concern onboard the boat during the race so far.  

“Together with our structural engineers and naval architects, we worked through the night to put together a full repair plan for Alex. During this time, Alex took some rest onboard in order to prepare to begin that repair work this morning. 

“Alex has now put the boat into a safe position to manage the sea state in order to reduce movement onboard while he carries out the repair. He has all the necessary materials onboard, a detailed plan to follow, and a team of world class engineers advising him. We are therefore confident in his ability to complete the repair. 

“Our objective is to carry out the necessary repair swiftly and effectively, in order to minimize the miles lost and resume racing again. 

“A further update will follow from the team in due course”.

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Weather guesstimate

Input; you know by now.

The 3 leaders of the race were nicely trucking along the SACZ heading SE (see pic #4 red line), until HB had to temporarily stop racing. Currently, there are 2 HP zones in play in the west and east of the 3 boats. And a LP zone due south. This makes a tricky ride to get in between these 3 systems in order to get maximum out of these. The SACZ is moving to the east today.

Now that AT has turned SE, he is heading into the SACZ itself. Which is a cold front and a through. Very moderate conditions, comparable to the ITCZ (not this VG though).

If repairs fail, AT could head for Rio and get a nice reaching wind pushing him directly to it. ETA for this very unwanted R&R is 3 days plus something at 40 percent polars. Very good sailing conditions. Unless very big parts start to fall off HB she should be able to make that trip. See pic #5.

EDIT: AT is down, but not out yet, reading the updates above :-)

 

Le Cam 22-11-20-0830.png

Dalin 22-11-20 0830.png

Ruyant 22-11-20 0830.png

SACZ 22-11-20 0830.png

AT to Rio with 40 percent polars.png

Edited by Herman
Edited for AT repairing
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5 minutes ago, Snowden said:

he may have picked a good moment to do this - leaders are going to run out of pressure over the next few days anyway?

Wouldn't that be a blessing.! And off course there is always the chance the 2 leaders come to a halt somehow? I think he still has 160 miles lead to the next foiling boat. Gives him some time as you say.

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55 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

BTW see how a near dead zone appeared of around 1 degree or 4+ hours on updates....so sliding away from MT's subscriber satellite paths.

Dead zone aka windows autoupdate booting my machine without asking :)

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2 hours ago, Chasm said:

There is a delay on the satellite ais data. currently about half an hour.

There is a delay, but mostly under 15 mins. Lots of the time it stays sub 10 mins, even 2-3 min delay seems normal. Amazing, when you think about it.

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9 hours ago, terrafirma said:

We'll have to wait and see what's wrong. But remember this boat was re-built after initially suffering structural issues. (Not sure if a UFO was completely or partially responsible) and it spent a lot of time in the shed so this wouldn't happen again. If it has Alex should be pissed off especially after publicly stating a massive focus was placed on reliability this time. The boat even had sensors in the hull. (Almost sounds like they expected this might happen). If it's a minor issue and repairable then I doubt it would have been reported the way it was? Time will tell. So Corum VPLP Out, Charal VPLP just hanging on and Boss VPLP possibly out? Meanwhile the Verdier twins are ok. 

JK can look at VLPL and repair em :lol: Corum is JK and it is mast fault. 

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2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Good point as after then nothing too severe and as UFO you would think would have been noticeable.

to your prior point on the VG communications manual, team may have been aware of this issue for a while?

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7 minutes ago, noaano said:
2 hours ago, Chasm said:

There is a delay on the satellite ais data. currently about half an hour.

There is a delay, but mostly under 15 mins. Lots of the time it stays sub 10 mins, even 2-3 min delay seems normal. Amazing, when you think about it.

But that big TX/RX break on your chart is around 4 hours???? Or are you speaking terrestrial processing time plus MT upload??

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Great to see that AT’s plan is to repair the boat and continue racing!  While I am pulling for the two currently up front, AT makes the race more interesting and he has devoted so much time and energy to this race that it would be a true shame for him to go out this way. Plus, I am hoping for a close race where as many boats as possible finish. In all events, when the leaders go into the SO, they too might experience issues requiring repair and AT might be able to catch back up. We shall see. 

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4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Convid totally screwed my 2020 (like most) delivery work and any racing travel and didn't get into VG pre start this year for some reason. Haven't called anyone a cunt here so anger management must have worked. :lol:

The race is young, plenty of time for that.:P

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16 minutes ago, Snowden said:

to your prior point on the VG communications manual, team may have been aware of this issue for a while?

Well bastards have updated the manual on the quiet.

"I'm feeling very tired and stressful" is supposed be; "I'm feeling strong and rested", NOT  'bow section is fucking shitting itself'. 

Pommy shysters.

 

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17 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

But that big TX/RX break on your chart is around 4 hours???? Or are you speaking terrestrial processing time plus MT upload??

That is from my computer booting up from windows update before I woke up. There is no break in reception at MT end.

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The HB update sounds like the a stringer or something similar has come loose from the shall in front of the watertight hatch. Could have happened at any time since the last inspection.

If the extend of the damage is as indicated, it should be fixable. Hopefully it will not be a "Camper scenario" regluing one structural bit after another on the way to Cape horn.  No outside assistance, so Alex cannot just wait for Kevin "bricollage" Escoffier to come by and help out. Will take some time to grind, re-glue and cure. Seems Alex will have to find some other boats to race (Paprec?, L'occitaine? ) if he can get this fixed.

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1 minute ago, mario147 said:

Can this shore team support be considered as external assistance? What are the rules in this situation?

They are allowed under the rules of the VG to advise on how to carry out repairs (and/or deal with medical emergenies).

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1 minute ago, mario147 said:

Can this shore team support be considered as external assistance? What are the rules in this situation?

They are allowed to provide technical advice, the Race Committee are involved in the communications and rule on what is and what isn't allowed to be sent to the competitor. (apparently its a whatsapp group :lol::lol:)

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2 minutes ago, Zander said:

Could have happened at any time since the last inspection.

Looks like the press release considered that idea, and the Theta speculation.

Quote

we provided clear instructions to allow him to carry out a full inspection of the damage. 

“That inspection has revealed some structural damage to a longitudinal beam at the front of the boat. The damage appears to be isolated to that area alone. It is as yet unclear what caused this damage. There have been no incidents of concern onboard the boat during the race so far.

 

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Very very good news... expect the unexpected... fuck, so true... bricolage time for Alex, he has experience repairing... it's happened to him in the past and he has solved with grace (what has not happened to this unique sailor)

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