Jump to content

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Schakel said:

His own web site mentioned a structural damage to and I quote:
a longitudinal beam at the front of the boat
In the deck or in the central keel?

I would guess it is the deck, that fits with the ultrasonic bow height sensor giving erroneous data.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 13.3k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

":A 2h18 heure française, le team PRB a été informé du sauvetage de Kevin Escoffier par Jean Le Cam. " Kevin has been rescued.  

Give it a rest chaps. HB was another attempt at evolution, and they should be applauded for spending a fuck ton of money to do so. If you want to try and be innovative you run the risk of breakages al

VG sailors at sea in the rough A translation: JLC: Damien can you receive me ? DS: Yes Jean I can (garbled)... I don't think you're receiving me that well but I receive you very well. JL

Posted Images

 

Boris about loads on the shrouds / mast. On his boat, the alarms go off at 17 t, while the "data logs" (his quote) on Corum showed 24 t right before breakage. Haven't seen that info before... (but I skipped some pages talking about adverse current :ph34r:)

Edit: Also notable that his mast alarms go off before the foil alarms, so that's his bottleneck. Contradicts what Capey said in the Bar Karate podcast.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Tom O'Keefe said:

Alex has a plan. He's executing the plan. Then he's got more than 2/3 of the course to grind down the leaders. The end goal just got a bit more challenging. 

Last time around, if I remember well, he was close to 800 miles behind Armel Le Cléac'h at Cape Horn, and he reeled him in, to less than a few dozen miles, sailing up the Atlantic ocean.

One thing for sure, the guy does not give up easily.... It ain't over yet.

  • Like 8
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Buck Turgidson said:

Looking at the weather patterns for the next 36 hours I don't think the first two are going to get across into the southern westerlies. Can someone with routing software confirm?

Potentially quite a bit longer. The second image is 114 hours after the 2100 update

Vendee20.JPG

Vendee20.JPG

Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Tom O'Keefe said:

Alex has a plan. He's executing the plan. Then he's got more than 2/3 of the course to grind down the leaders. The end goal just got a bit more challenging. 

AT is lucky to have some calm weather and warm temperature for the epoxy/carbon matt to cure before he enters the Southern ocean. It would be great to get some before and after pics of the repair. I would imagine AT is pretty good at these type of repairs and also he would have been trained well for this type of issue.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, k-f-u said:

Corum showed 24 t right before breakage. Haven't seen that info before

Thanks for that find. A couple of days ago Conrad Colman said no alarms went off on Corum, so perhaps the fleet has been given an update--they all must have been wondering about their OD masts.

Also, liked the way Herrmann covered some of the other issues in the race for his home audience.  Good ambassador.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Snowden said:

more reason to think that this is not luck and potentially an issue that has been known for some time (since Theta?)

Figured the team was anticipating questions about Theta when they wrote:

"There have been no incidents of concern onboard the boat during the race so far. "

Edited by stief
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Snowden said:

anyone know what system are they using for the solo climb these days? assume more complex than two jumars

It looked like Ruyant was using a Petzl Zigzag Plus and a foot ascender. It looked like he was attached to the Zigzag plus both by a waist harness and some sort of chest harness.  

It's a tree climbers setup. Heavy and strong. Fast to go up the rope.  But I've never descended on one, so don't know what that part is like.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

My guess is that it is a hull long'l stringer not deck. It might be on the side of the hull if the boat was heeled a lot when the impact occurred. i.e. not right on the bottom.

The deck is subject to local loads (waves, from burying the bow) and global compression loads but both of these are usually pretty easy to get the loads right. The hull stringer might have just failed, either at the top flange surface or the sides of the top hat (these are loaded in shear mostly)

Slamming is very hard to get the pressure loads correct. In many design rules you have to assume a G force. And you say "well of course if it's slamming at 2.5 G at the bow, it's 0.7G amidships so nobody will push the boat that hard"

But sometimes people will push the boat harder than designers account for. Highly motivated crews (special forces, SAR, and somebody like Alex) are KNOWN to push boats in big seas to the detriment of their bodies (special forces guys have compression fractures in their spines and broken ankles I think from wave slamming).

 

And sometimes the forces will be higher than anybody can predict. I read a paper (at least a decade ago) about a Open 60 that instrumented the hull with strain gauges. 

Jeez, 2001:   http://finot.com/nouvelles/actucourse/0301recherche/csys4.pdf

"The maximum recorded values of acceleration were 1.72g at the centre of gravity and 5.31g at the bow. These occurred while the boat was beating at approximately 8 knots in 5.1 metres estimated significant wave height."  Ha - that's about double what I was saying was excessive!

Note the boat speed and waves. I bet Alex was sailing much, much faster than that into Theta.

 

If he has enough material  he can fix it stronger than originally. The repair will be big and bulky and weigh more than the lightweight original, but that's what the repair materials are for.

2 hours ago, Hitchhiker said:

The concern I have for Boss, is despite being able to complete the repair, have any of the unreinforced hull panels, in way of the longitudinal. been compromised by delamination or disbonding?  Can the boat be pressed to say 70% of it's maximum performance potential with any amount of confidence?

It really is hard to even guess. Panels / hull plating are usually more flexible than internal structure. They'll globally flex but the stringer or other internal structure will fail first. A slam happens very rapidly, and the area of max pressure can be very small.

There might be local debond right under the stringer. 

  • Like 13
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

Every time I have lifted my foot off the pedal, it's been because there is an increased risk to the crew. 

Mate you left out the bit about 'pissing your pants' and filling up your seaboots. :D

PS. Don't see no entry for the Solo Tasman Yacht Challenge 2022 yet. Chop chop. :P

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, stief said:

Ooooh. Alex is actually pretending to be dragging his wing while he sneaks to the south west and jumps on the train due in 48 hrs.

He'll wave at the leaders sitting around on the platform. 

1818699316_ScreenShot2020-11-22at11_11_37AM.thumb.png.b7fec0d88bf4b331ae4dca697197f42f.png

https://www.windy.com/-Wind-gusts-gust?gust,2020-11-24-21,-33.049,11.443,3,i:pressure,anmByh

I think you nailed. The pair ahead gybed to cover, but it might be to late. Sneaky devils those brits. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Geff said:

Now imagine doing this with any kind of wave action, as well as the higher up the mast, the more swaying about one tends to do.

From watching the video, I believe the line that he ascended on was fixed at the base of the mast. So he was actually held fairly tight to the mast, or atleast as tight as possible.  

I couldn't see the 2nd part of the aparatus (the Chicane).  My brother is an arborist and I went up some trees to help him.  I'm certain i went up on the Zigzag, without the Chicane.  Though I wouldn't bet my life on it, until I confirmed that was possible.   

After seeing it used by Thomas in this way, it is a slicker system then the Grigri, pulley and rope clamps that I'm currently using. A huge negative of the grigri 2:1 pulley system is the tail can't be fastened at the base of the mast, which the Zigzag seems to overcome.  

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Laurent said:

Last time around, if I remember well, he was close to 800 miles behind Armel Le Cléac'h at Cape Horn, and he reeled him in, to less than a few dozen miles, sailing up the Atlantic ocean.

One thing for sure, the guy does not give up easily.... It ain't over yet.

379 when he rounded cape horn. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, tDot said:

From watching the video, I believe the line that he ascended on was fixed at the base of the mast. So he was actually held fairly tight to the mast, or atleast as tight as possible.  

I couldn't see the 2nd part of the aparatus (the Chicane).  My brother is an arborist and I went up some trees to help him.  I'm certain i went up on the Zigzag, without the Chicane.  Though I wouldn't bet my life on it, until I confirmed that was possible.   

After seeing it used by Thomas in this way, it is a slicker system then the Grigri, pulley and rope clamps that I'm currently using. A huge negative of the grigri 2:1 pulley system is the tail can't be fastened at the base of the mast, which the Zigzag seems to overcome.  

I have a second line fixed at the deck for my safety which is a prussic. I take a short loop round it at chest height to keep me close.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, k-f-u said:

Nothing entirely new from our Italian friends but they discuss at length the problems of the new foilers - too much slamming at the bow - just a few hours before the news of AT breaking... 

Points for Covid safe use of PC monitor.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, noaano said:

The month was August and the clay was the twenty-second. Even the time of the afternoon—5:45—was mentioned by the alert correspondent of the Times of London, who further observed that the Prince of Wales went ashore from the royal yacht wearing his while sailor’s uniform and tarpaulin hat and danced down the road with boyish vivacity.

To bring the appealing picture into focus it is necessary to add only that the year was 1851, that the young prince was the future King Edward VII, and that the occasion was a race in which the most newsworthy competitor was a schooner from the United States, the America.

Queen Victoria was immensely interested and probably assumed that at least one of the fourteen British cutlers and schooners that had started at 10 o’clock that morning in a 53-mile contest around England’s Isle of Wight would defeat the American invader. From the Victoria and Albert , in which the royal party had put aside the cares of state, the smaller steam yacht Fairy was dispatched seaward of the Needles for a view that the young prince and his shoregoing party had relinquished because of wind and drizzle. The Fairy ’s return gave rise to questions and answers so famous and so paraphrased that some historians cloud their authenticity with the invidious word “alleged.”

Thus the Queen is alleged to have asked a signalmaster, “Are the yachts in sight?”

“Only the America , may it please Your Majesty.”

Which is second?”

“Ah, Your Majesty, there is no second.”

^^^^^^ noanno reply to VG and podium finishes counting or not.

So these words from the above. 

"1851, Cowes, Prince of Wales and Queen Victoria" and “Which is second?”

“Ah, Your Majesty, there is no second.”

Wind forward 128 years to the year 1979, and SAME Prince of Wales (the Prince Charles one), SAME month, SAME place Cowes and the SAME Queen Victoria Cup.

Enter an Australian yachtsman, the late Rolly Tasker (as in sails), where SAME AS ALL THE ABOVE.

Tasker put his Siska IV on a freighter from Australia to Hamburg, then sailing Hamburg to Cowes as a warm up. He was most focused on the Queen Victoria Cup which amoungst the entries was Tenacious skippered by American Ted Turner, Condor with Englishman Peter Bell and the top dog Kialoa, skippered by America's Jim Kilroy, who had been world Maxi champion over the previous two years.

Beating these three world-renowned boats would put him and Siska IV on top of the world.

Tasker’s wife, Sara, acting as the manager for the tour and from a rented a house at Cowes did all the cooking and washing for 17 people plus their five- year-old daughter Sophie and a nanny. 

One day Sarah got a message from Buckingham Palace," saying, "Prince Charles wished to sail on Siska IV if it was convenient to join them on the Wednesday in the Queen Victoria Cup". She was told that the Royal Barge would find Siska IV after she left her moorings in the morning. Then the Prince would come on board.

His Royal Highness (HRH) the Prince joined the race in the name of his great, great, great grandmother, with 430 other yachts in this Channel Race off Cowes, including several Admirals Cup entrants. 

The Royal Barge appeared. HRH climbed on board Siska IV. He recalled each crew member, shook hands with Tasker and greeted Sara with a kiss on both cheeks saying: "How lovely to see you again!" (Prince Charles had sailed with the Taskers in Perth Australia earlier in the year.)

He handed her a paper bag. "What's this" Sara enquired. "My lunch" said HRH.

"You're joking," Sara said, "you're taking lunch on to our boat" HRH had his own vegetarian assortment.

He was wearing blue jeans, and a navy blue sweater. Sara had outfitted the crew with white pants and white shirts with red Siska monograms printed on them. She gave him a pair of her own white jeans, and the Prince happily conformed to the crew "uniform". He changed in the aft cabin and came up on deck where he told Tasker:

"That's the trouble with jeans; they're like a cheap hotel."

"How" Tasker asked.

"There's no ball-room."

:lol::lol:

Ogh before I forget; 

Queen Victoria asking; “Which is second?”

“Ah, Your Majesty, there is no second.”

Approaching the first marker buoy, Tasker was leading the huge fleet and cutting through the water at speed. Kialoa was running a close second.

"I had to move sideways fast because they had huge spinnakers up. Kilroy was taking the wind," Tasker recalled, "I thought he might slip inside us at the buoy."

Kilroy left his spinnaker up too long. In the rush to bring it down, the long sheet wire ran free from one of them. The spinnaker was 36 metres (120 ft) long. The sheet wire was a further 43 metre (140 ft). The 10mm thick wire whipped around 80 metres ahead of the boat and over Siska IV. It had the force and impact of a guillotine as it whirled low. At that moment, Prince Charles stood up to take a photograph.

Crew member Peter Hay put his hand on the Royal Crown and pushed it down, saying: "Sit down you stupid bastard!"

HRH had probably not heard such a seditious remark, casting doubt on his parentage. Yet he did not take umbrage. He knew that decapitation was not in his interest. After that, the Prince was assigned a minder, who was told: "It's your job in this race to make sure the Royal head stays on the Royal shoulders."

In a titanic battle in the last few miles, Siska IV beat off its highly reputed opponents in their first-ever clash to win on handicap and take line honours. 

Winning the Queen Victoria Cup was Tasker's finest achievement, especially with Tenacious second, Condor third and a host of Admirals Cup boats coming in behind him. When he was later handed the Cup Tasker wanted to take it home. But the Commodore at Royal Yacht Squadron Cowes wouldn't allow it. "It stays in Cowes," he said.

___________

Note: This is taken from a memory bank clouded by the odd too many rum and tonics helped by this my abbreviated extract from the book on Tasker's life, 'Sailing to the Moon' by Roland Perry.

Tasker at the time his death in 2012 had sixty (60) years of competition and more than 2,000 races including following the above, the tragic 1979 Fastnet Race across the Irish Sea, in which 23 boats were sunk and 18 people died. 

As for some context about finishing races and breaking shit.

Tasker NEVER lost a yacht, a crew or a rig, or retired from gear failure. He was inducted into the Australian Sailing Hall of Fame in 2017.

  • Like 10
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, stief said:

Ooooh. Alex is actually pretending to be dragging his wing while he sneaks to the south west and jumps on the train due in 48 hrs.

He'll wave at the leaders sitting around on the platform. 

1818699316_ScreenShot2020-11-22at11_11_37AM.thumb.png.b7fec0d88bf4b331ae4dca697197f42f.png

https://www.windy.com/-Wind-gusts-gust?gust,2020-11-24-21,-33.049,11.443,3,i:pressure,anmByh

Sorry if it's been asked but how can I get the boats to appear on windy please? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Tasker NEVER lost a yacht, a crew or a rig, or retired from gear failure. He was inducted into the Australian Sailing Hall of Fame in 2017.

I seem to recall Rolly dropping the rig (Siska V?) one day in the Swan river - I think it was a training day though, not a race. 

Word was that the boat was a bit of a barker, and Rolly reckoned the rig was the problem.  So out they went for a training sail and Rolly told one of the crew to wind on the runner until he was told to stop.  When the rig crumpled, Rolly said "that's enough".  

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mezaire said:

I'm really interested in how close to the leaders and how many places Charal can make up.

Started 3000nm behind, now 3066nm behind!!

Another way of looking at it, just for grins... here's how the Charal "re-start" superimposes over the fleet start...
image.png.90d767cf4387d3d6f764bc0c5dcdbe70.png

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Recidivist said:

I seem to recall Rolly dropping the rig (Siska V?) one day in the Swan river - I think it was a training day though, not a race. 

Word was that the boat was a bit of a barker, and Rolly reckoned the rig was the problem.  So out they went for a training sail and Rolly told one of the crew to wind on the runner until he was told to stop.  When the rig crumpled, Rolly said "that's enough".  

Rec lucky I employed the word "retired":D 

Siska V lot of miles built for Parmelia no barking, same Sisksa IV incl Bali and the 1978 Sydney to Hobart when denied official starter status but starting by itself and romping home. 

If I had to pick one ....Siska II circa 1974?

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Snowden said:

more reason to think that this is not luck and potentially an issue that has been known for some time (since Theta?)

Was contemplating the same-

had an issue from earlier that wasnt race ending, but needed to be fixed up before heading south, where he's supposedly better optimised and potentially quicker.... put  out the media release, giving some breathing space / mystery, allowing bit of extra time to get everything sorted for a quick as possible repair at the best possible time weather wise, before continuing racing on?

Before I grab my tin foil...how good is this race- been worth the wait...epic battles everywhere- front. mid and back fleet, some epic footage and comms coming off the boat Boris, Pip for EN followers, the usual from the FR,  Le Cam, SD, TR  etc etc...no wonder the VOR wanted to get into this action to save their dying race...

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, thengling said:
1 hour ago, mezaire said:

I'm really interested in how close to the leaders and how many places Charal can make up.

Started 3000nm behind, now 3066nm behind!!

Another way of looking at it, just for grins... here's how the Charal "re-start" superimposes over the fleet start...
  image.png.90d767cf4387d3d6f764bc0c5dcdbe70.png

Got past Verdes at traditional longitude still pushing south avoiding being wacked west like Tripon (yellow track) was. 

Good ITCZ in/out and gets good transition into trades with a lot less miles augers well.

20 hours ago around 20k (now starting to slow at 15k but in right direction.)

IMG_20201122_163010.jpg.1e395bd1e8bf107c2a6525ecd85a5d09.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Rec lucky I employed the word "retired":D 

Siska V lot of miles no barking, same Sisksa IV incl the 1978 Sydney to Hobart when denied official starter status but starting by itself and romping home. 

If I had to pick one ....Siska II circa 1974?

Too long ago Jack - I really can't remember.  I'm pretty sure it was one of the later ones, and early in it's life.  I didn't go to Hobart in '74 - stayed in Darwin for a nice rest :wacko:

I remember the year Siska 1 had a bow on collision inside the harbour, and went out through the heads with duct tape over the top 2 planks for about 10 feet to cover the split timber!  I think she finished, but it was wet down below!

/drift

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, plugger said:

Was contemplating the same-

had an issue from earlier that wasnt race ending, but needed to be fixed up before heading south, where he's supposedly better optimised and potentially quicker.... put  out the media release, giving some breathing space / mystery, allowing bit of extra time to get everything sorted for a quick as possible repair at the best possible time weather wise, before continuing racing on?

He started his slowdown for the repair right at nightfall so he doused the sails, set the glue, then went to bed. Theory confirmed?

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Recidivist said:

Too long ago Jack - I really can't remember... 

..I remember the year Siska 1 had a bow on collision inside the harbour, and went out through the heads with duct tape...

Here breakfast was too long ago. 

Was duct tape invented then??:D

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, noaano said:

 

I do long distance trailrunning, there is a similar brutal race on that field, with similar "destinies".

"Gary Robbins reached the yellow gate finish just six seconds over the 60-hour cut-off.":

https://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2017/4/5/15189226/barkley-marathons-gary-robbins-canada-finish-6-seconds-late

"The Barkley Marathons should be attempted by nobody" - this would fit Vendee Globe just as well.

 

Unfortunately those 6s slipped the organizers mouth where in reality Gary was several miles off. He only achieved those 6s by going the wrong and therefore not official way.The organizer never should have mentioned those 6s and he clearly regrets it in later interviews.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Hugo Boss will be way too heavy once all that repair is done. 

overall weight won't change , distribution of may ...

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

well there all pointing in the right direction now two leaders very tight on who will be leader in an hour or two........the pack behind have all come up together and are bunching..... except for Jean ,Stephan .... in fact bunches all round to the tail    and   a   lone  Jeremie on the move

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Hugo Boss will be way too heavy once all that repair is done. 

How can it be Kenny he was already carrying the repair materials..?  As MID said a bit more weight in the repair less elsewhere.  Did you think he stopped at the local hardware store to pick up a grinder, some resin, carbon etc.? LOL 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, terrafirma said:

How can it be Kenny he was already carrying the repair materials..?  As MID said a bit more weight in the repair less elsewhere.  Did you think he stopped at the local hardware store to pick up a grinder, some resin, carbon etc.? LOL 

WOOSH! :lol:

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm assuming that's a joke, but just in case it isn't... he was already carrying the repair material, so the total weight gain is zero... though maybe it won't be in an optimal location.  

I'd probably be more concerned about the bolt heads sticking out. Hopefully it's not too low on the hull, nor up on the deck, where feet or sails could catch them.

 

Terra beat me to it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, tDot said:

I'm assuming that's a joke, but just in case it isn't... he was already carrying the repair material, so the total weight gain is zero... though maybe it won't be in an optimal location.  

I'd probably be more concerned about the bolt heads sticking out. Hopefully it's not too low on the hull, nor up on the deck, where feet or sails could catch them.

That's what the on board Grinder is for.! And no I don't think Kenny said it as a joke. It was a brain fade :D

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Hugo Boss will be way too heavy once all that repair is done. 

The repairs are done with stuff on board, so no net weight change. (as said before in the last few posts)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

That's what the on board Grinder is for.! And no I don't think Kenny said it as a joke. It was a brain fade :D

 

Well in that case, if the sparks go overboard, he'll be lighter. Maybe he will catch the VPLP twins!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like Charlie Dalin got a little excited and gybed too soon, and then had to correct. If he hadnt thrown in those two extra gybes, he might already be leading. But from watching the speed differentials between CD and TR, there might be a new leader soon.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rafael said:

BRAVO... Looks like Alex is back in the race !  270 Nm delta to the front twins

ATBack.jpg.ac9355c02cae2a62500fec1f0d3e1d12.jpg

His pointing in the right direction but not sure he is powered up yet. He's been stuck on 6 knots. See what the next sked says. I think as conditions were  light there was no need to continue to head SW so he's back on course but not with all the sails up yet. He will need the repairs to cure before he loads up the boat again

Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

His pointing in the right direction but not sure he is powered up yet. He's been stuck on 6 knots. See what the next sked says. I think as conditions were  light there was no need to continue to head SW so he's back on course but not with all the sails up yet. He will need the repairs to cure before he loads up the boat again

Agree, at least he's no drifting anymore, Escoffier and Burton double his speed and most probably will pass him... Ideal conditions to restart gently for the Good Hope, and the urge to continue before the front peloton surpasses him. Let's see how he evolves in the next hours and the official resume by team. Game On (partially)

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Snowden said:

more reason to think that this is not luck and potentially an issue that has been known for some time (since Theta?)

That's what I thought. Was this issue the reason for his taking away from Theta, and not following Le Cam? Could this be the reason for the - relative - slowness shown in respect af LinkedOut and Apiva? Isn't it a bit odd that he found out about the issue exactly when the conditions were perfect for the repair?!

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, DVV said:

That's what I thought. Was this issue the reason for his taking away from Theta, and not following Le Cam? Could this be the reason for the - relative - slowness shown in respect af LinkedOut and Apiva? Isn't it a bit odd that he found out about the issue exactly when the conditions were perfect for the repair?!

 

Because the conditions were perfect, he made an inspection and discovered the issue and probably not the other way around. Now, the real issue is : Is this repair going to really solve the issue; Theta is nothing compared to what the boat will see in the south. All the recent foilers had delamination issues on the bow and it took their technical teams more than a month to reinforce the structure with additional beams ..... Alex probably doesn't have all the necessary tools onboard to do what is required to make a real repair. Is he going to slow down to finish the race ? Is he going to try to catch up and break again ?  That's the real question    

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, BozoC said:

Because the conditions were perfect, he made an inspection and discovered the issue and probably not the other way around. Now, the real issue is : Is this repair going to really solve the issue; Theta is nothing compared to what the boat will see in the south. All the recent foilers had delamination issues on the bow and it took their technical teams more than a month to reinforce the structure with additional beams ..... Alex probably doesn't have all the necessary tools onboard to do what is required to make a real repair. Is he going to slow down to finish the race ? Is he going to try to catch up and break again ?  That's the real question    

I guess you are right.

It will be interesting to see what happens for sure (as usual, this race goes much differently from what I expect)..

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, DVV said:

That's what I thought. Was this issue the reason for his taking away from Theta, and not following Le Cam? Could this be the reason for the - relative - slowness shown in respect af LinkedOut and Apiva? Isn't it a bit odd that he found out about the issue exactly when the conditions were perfect for the repair?!

 

Could be the case, but then a bit strange that Alex took a 6 hours sleep, after having sent all the info so that the shore team prepares the plan during his sleep (at least what he said..)

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Could be the case, but then a bit strange that Alex took a 6 hours sleep, after having sent all the info so that the shore team prepares the plan during his sleep (at least what he said..)

No that was part of the plan. The shore team took all night to prepare the plan so told him to get some sleep. I think to inspect the bow area you would need softer conditions. You wouldn't want to be in the bow coming down off a foil. He was supposed to have Fibre Optic Hull Sensors? Obviously not in the bow but it's possible the Theta passage caused the damage, who knows? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, BozoC said:

Because the conditions were perfect, he made an inspection and discovered the issue and probably not the other way around. Now, the real issue is : Is this repair going to really solve the issue; Theta is nothing compared to what the boat will see in the south. All the recent foilers had delamination issues on the bow and it took their technical teams more than a month to reinforce the structure with additional beams ..... Alex probably doesn't have all the necessary tools onboard to do what is required to make a real repair. Is he going to slow down to finish the race ? Is he going to try to catch up and break again ?  That's the real question    

+1 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Got past Verdes at traditional longitude still pushing south avoiding being wacked west like Tripon (yellow track) was. 

Good ITCZ in/out and gets good transition into trades with a lot less miles augers well.

20 hours ago around 20k (now starting to slow at 15k but in right direction.)

IMG_20201122_163010.jpg.1e395bd1e8bf107c2a6525ecd85a5d09.jpg

you mean Canaries, not Cap Verdes?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, BozoC said:

Because the conditions were perfect, he made an inspection and discovered the issue and probably not the other way around. Now, the real issue is : Is this repair going to really solve the issue; Theta is nothing compared to what the boat will see in the south. All the recent foilers had delamination issues on the bow and it took their technical teams more than a month to reinforce the structure with additional beams ..... Alex probably doesn't have all the necessary tools onboard to do what is required to make a real repair. Is he going to slow down to finish the race ? Is he going to try to catch up and break again ?  That's the real question    

Very complicated one man job at sea... even with a bunch of materials (he has quite some in his own words).

His nature is he will try to catch up for sure, and squeeze his boat, even if he breaks again... After 3rd and 2nd places in the last 8 years, there is no point in not finishing 1st (for him). Alltough his team, in case the wounded bow limits him, most probably will advice to nurse it and arrive to les Sables (race media exposure and ROI)

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Could be the case, but then a bit strange that Alex took a 6 hours sleep, after having sent all the info so that the shore team prepares the plan during his sleep (at least what he said..)

Makes some sense to me if he was about asleep when when he found the problem.
Take speed out of the boat to make a detailed inspection possible. Document the issue and give the shore team time to work something out. Point the boat into a sensible direction and catch up on sleep.
He also said that he needed (or at least preferred) daylight for some of the work. That also lines up with 6h sleep.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Chasm said:

Looking back at the fleet it looks very much like Pip is beating Arnaud to the Equator. We'll know with the next report.

Pip is having a superb race given her boat - seems to have called every routing decision perfectly (a bit like le Cam). Does anyone know if she's likely to come back in a better boat in future? Or is competing in the Vendee globe a one-off ambition?

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, b3nharris said:

Pip is having a superb race given her boat - seems to have called every routing decision perfectly (a bit like le Cam). Does anyone know if she's likely to come back in a better boat in future? Or is competing in the Vendee globe a one-off ambition?

She'll be back.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Weather update

Current situation with 0830 positions has several HP and several LP zones between South America, Africa and Antarctica. Moving slowly east. GFS and ECMWF more or less agree on what is where and when. Roughly. But very reliable I think it's not when comparing wind speed and direction for the models against ship/island actual measurements today and yesterday. Mark 1 eyeball and the barometer are better. Done a routing anyway to get an idea whats up and to keep the punters happy here. Deepest depressions are between Capetown and Antarctica. The orange line is the SACZ, which is still a no-go zone for the boats. In the coming days the HP zones move east towards in between Gough Island and Capetown pushing the projected routings south for Dalin and Ruyant. Light wind sailing conditions for the top 5 routed for the coming days. JLC at non-foiling polars, the rest @ 102 % foiling. 

 

Current situation 23-11-20 0830 v2 .png

Schermafdruk 2020-11-23 10.50.52.png

Schermafdruk 2020-11-23 10.56.16.png

Schermafdruk 2020-11-23 10.53.30.png

Schermafdruk 2020-11-23 10.53.29.png

Schermafdruk 2020-11-23 10.53.28.png

Schermafdruk 2020-11-23 10.53.27.png

Schermafdruk 2020-11-23 10.53.26.png

Schermafdruk 2020-11-23 10.51.00.png

Schermafdruk 2020-11-23 10.50.57.png

Schermafdruk 2020-11-23 10.50.56.png

Schermafdruk 2020-11-23 10.50.54.png

  • Like 8
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BozoC said:

Because the conditions were perfect, he made an inspection and discovered the issue and probably not the other way around. Now, the real issue is : Is this repair going to really solve the issue; Theta is nothing compared to what the boat will see in the south. All the recent foilers had delamination issues on the bow and it took their technical teams more than a month to reinforce the structure with additional beams ..... Alex probably doesn't have all the necessary tools onboard to do what is required to make a real repair. Is he going to slow down to finish the race ? Is he going to try to catch up and break again ?  That's the real question    

I'm having second thoughts..

That space-ship is packed with sensors. Is it possible that they did not show anything with this kind of issue?! I dont think so..

Either it happened just before the check (difficult given the situation), or they knew something was wrong. As you said, he could not have a proper check, and he had to wait for easier conditions to go and see the damage extent, but my guess is they knew something happened.

Otherwise they should take all those sensor and throw them in the trash... :) 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Recidivist said:

Too long ago Jack - I really can't remember.  I'm pretty sure it was one of the later ones, and early in it's life.  I didn't go to Hobart in '74 - stayed in Darwin for a nice rest :wacko:

I remember the year Siska 1 had a bow on collision inside the harbour, and went out through the heads with duct tape over the top 2 planks for about 10 feet to cover the split timber!  I think she finished, but it was wet down below!

/drift

Would the rig failure have been the S&S Siska? IIRC he was never happy with her - the only one (apart from Siska 1 - which I think he modified) he didn't design and build.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, DVV said:

I'm having second thoughts..

That space-ship is packed with sensors. Is it possible that they did not show anything with this kind of issue?! I dont think so..

Either it happened just before the check (difficult given the situation), or they knew something was wrong. As you said, he could not have a proper check, and he had to wait for easier conditions to go and see the damage extent, but my guess is they knew something happened.

Otherwise they should take all those sensor and throw them in the trash... :) 

I heard AT saying that in the TJV his sensors worked at 1 Herz, so measured every second. He and Neil had one extraordinary big bang of a wave exploding on the bow but later couldn't find anything about it in de data from the sensors. So I think i is hard to limit the boat based on the g-forces of the slamming. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, ALL@SEA said:

Would the rig failure have been the S&S Siska? IIRC he was never happy with her - the only one (apart from Siska 1 - which I think he modified) he didn't design and build.

First #I was the redesign/rework. II, IV and V  his own and 3rd the S&S 50 footer that I'm sure only called Siska and shortest period owned. He was a light boat guy so 70's S&S doesn't compute unless a rating commision.  

 

  • Like 1
Link to post