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Me thinks the leading ten boats will 'catch the bus' in the next few days, and will pull away from the rest of the fleet.

For once I don't think the leading few boats will get richer, and there will be a bunching up of the top ten. Exciting times ahead.

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":A 2h18 heure française, le team PRB a été informé du sauvetage de Kevin Escoffier par Jean Le Cam. " Kevin has been rescued.  

Give it a rest chaps. HB was another attempt at evolution, and they should be applauded for spending a fuck ton of money to do so. If you want to try and be innovative you run the risk of breakages al

VG sailors at sea in the rough A translation: JLC: Damien can you receive me ? DS: Yes Jean I can (garbled)... I don't think you're receiving me that well but I receive you very well. JL

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18 minutes ago, psyclone said:

You gotta hand it to AT, he isnt afraid to think outside the box (even though he is sailing inside one;)).

The guy brings sailing to the masses by making it look cool and doing cool things. To the non sailing people sailing is pretty boring however more people would know Alex Thomson and Hugo Boss than say Ainsley, Outeridge, Slingsby, Burton or any number of crazy Frenchmen who sail these things due to his antics and dedication.

He pushes soo hard at everything. he gets kicked in the arse time and again yet here he is broken but still giving it his all making it interesting and engaging for the masses.

We Aussies should adopt him as one of our own... The Underdog... the little Aussie Battler.

Seriously the guy is a goer and leaves no stone unturned, I wish him luck as I think he gonna need it! 

Whether he does or doesnt finish I truly hope this isnt the last we see off AT racing around the globe. 

+1

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1 hour ago, chuso007 said:

Watching Boris prepare the headsail change, first thing that came to my mind was picturing it in 30 knots of wind in heavy seas. Then I thought (and here I'm probably just talking out of my ass) Why not stowing the furled headsails on deck along the rails? first thing that comes to mind is impossibility to switch sides when tacking or jibing but you could keep half on one side and half on the other... Not ideal but you'd save a lot of time and energy.

Am I asking a stupid question here?

Would guess they leave the unused sails furled in crazy conditions accepting the windage and take them down once conditions allow. Stowing along the rails might be a no-go as you could count seconds once they get flushed away despite reasonable tie-downs...

So the strategic art (from my armchair view) would be having the portfolio of furled sails deployed which covers next days/hours as good as possible - and remove anything useless in that context

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Weather update

The weather models still have trouble to catch the dynamic situation it seems, and still don't agree much except for a higher level. Currently there is a LP-zone moving to Capetown that has benefited the top 2 boats. A HP-zone is following in it's wake. Dalin seems to sneak through. ECMWF with some guidance is pic 1. A large windfield (bus 3) is predicted on the map moving east, probably Friday evening impacting the fleet that is most to the SE. It's going to bring wind, enough. Up to 30 kts steady with gusts up to 40 kts. See the routing table results in pic 2 for details. When comparing Davies projection with Dalin's @ Friday 21:00, Davies gets that wind first while Dalin is hugging the AEZ with 5 kts. Although Davies is projected a day later at the virtual waypoint, her DTL should have gone from lateral distance of 666 nm actual @ 0830 down to +/- 446 nm projected @ Sunday evening. So the south-westerners Davies, Burton and probably Thomson too, could Pacman one third of their DTL, if this forecast holds up and they are south as projected. Interesting to see how (and if) this pans out. See pic 3 for projections Sunday evening, blue arrow indicate current and projected positions. The rest are the top 10 routings, which all say go south the coming day, except for Dalin and Ruyant sneaking away SE. Light weather sailing still in the coming days, up to Friday when the party starts. Now back to the regular programming ;-)

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"The foil is really cracked in many places"

It was about 3 a.m. that night when Thomas Ruyant, while resting inside his LinkedOut, was alerted by a loud noise outside the boat. Without feeling any shock, however, the skipper rushed outside. Using his headlamp, he immediately noticed significant cracks on the "shaft" of his port foil. He immediately stopped the boat and went downwind to inspect the damage. "I was about 120 degrees from the wind, I was at 20 knots when I heard this big noise," Ruyant says as he was at the front (2nd) with Charlie Dalin. "I don't really have an explanation. I tucked the foil in so it wouldn't drag in the water. With the day, I was able to inspect the foil and its well from top to bottom, in relation to my team and the architects on land. There is no waterway and the foil well is healthy. But the foil is really cracked in many places. The very structure of the foil is affected. I'm waiting for the architects' analysis to see if I need to cut it."

"I continue the race with one wing"

  

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11 minutes ago, b3nharris said:

Thanks.

Very quick and dirty translation of the most important paragraph:

 

At 3am last night, and as Thomas Ruyant was resting inside LinkedOut, he was alerted by a loud noise outside. Despite he didn’t feel any shock, Ruyant went outside in a hurry. Using a headlight, he immediatly noticed large cracks on the portside foil shaft. He stopped the boat and headed downwind for a proper inspection. « I was at about 120° wind angle and 20 knots boat speed when I heard the noise » says Ruyant. « I don’t really have an explanation. I pulled the foil all the way in so it doesn’t drag in the water. With daylight, I was able to inspect the foil and its box fully, whilst talking to the team and designers. There is no water leak and the foil box is sound . The foil is showing lots of cracks, its structure is clearly damaged. I am waiting for the designers feedback to know if I will have to cut it ».

 

 

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14 minutes ago, BozoC said:

"The foil is really cracked in many places"

It was about 3 a.m. that night when Thomas Ruyant, while resting inside his LinkedOut, was alerted by a loud noise outside the boat. Without feeling any shock, however, the skipper rushed outside. Using his headlamp, he immediately noticed significant cracks on the "shaft" of his port foil. He immediately stopped the boat and went downwind to inspect the damage. "I was about 120 degrees from the wind, I was at 20 knots when I heard this big noise," Ruyant says as he was at the front (2nd) with Charlie Dalin. "I don't really have an explanation. I tucked the foil in so it wouldn't drag in the water. With the day, I was able to inspect the foil and its well from top to bottom, in relation to my team and the architects on land. There is no waterway and the foil well is healthy. But the foil is really cracked in many places. The very structure of the foil is affected. I'm waiting for the architects' analysis to see if I need to cut it."

"I continue the race with one wing"

  

I predicted this in one of my earlier posts. I said one of the Verdier boats would sustain damage. This opens one door for Alex but makes Charlie clear favorite now to win. As to how much it slows Thomas down and if he has to cut it? Arkea Paprec is with Alex so will be interesting to see how they go boat for boat as the drama in this race continues to unfold.

P.S. Looks like Boris and Yannick have rafted up together? Maybe sharing a wine or two.? 

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24 minutes ago, BozoC said:

"I continue the race with one wing"

Bad luck for Ruyant! Routing gets more complicated too, as his polars are asynchronous now and Open CPN can't handle that AFAIK. Like last VG when AT lost his foil.

13 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Arkea Paprec is with Alex

If you call a 100 nm lateral separation "with", yes. It's all relative to the DTF ;-)

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1 hour ago, psyclone said:

You gotta hand it to AT, he isnt afraid to think outside the box (even though he is sailing inside one;)).

The guy brings sailing to the masses by making it look cool and doing cool things. To the non sailing people sailing is pretty boring however more people would know Alex Thomson and Hugo Boss than say Ainsley, Outeridge, Slingsby, Burton or any number of crazy Frenchmen who sail these things due to his antics and dedication.

He pushes soo hard at everything. he gets kicked in the arse time and again yet here he is broken but still giving it his all making it interesting and engaging for the masses.

We Aussies should adopt him as one of our own... The Underdog... the little Aussie Battler.

Seriously the guy is a goer and leaves no stone unturned, I wish him luck as I think he gonna need it! 

Whether he does or doesnt finish I truly hope this isnt the last we see off AT racing around the globe. 

Whilst I agree with a lot of what you wrote, there is no way he should be described as the Underdog... This is 18 years of sponsorship, 7 (?) boats, 4 previous Vendee Globes, not to mention 5 Oceans and BWR. No other skipper has spent the amount of time and money on this race. In fact, even longer sponsors are reusing boats (PRB). 

Alex should still be counted as a favourite to win, there is a long way to go, and every boat out there is going to have issues. 

I hope he can win it... But if there is one thing he is not, it is the underdog. 

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5 minutes ago, Herman said:

Bad luck for Ruyant! Routing gets more complicated too, as his polars are asynchronous now and Open CPN can't handle that AFAIK. Like last VG when AT lost his foil.

If you call a 100 nm lateral separation "with", yes. It's all relative to the DTF ;-)

Yes Herman exactly relative to DTF..! LOL:D

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9 minutes ago, Potter said:

Whilst I agree with a lot of what you wrote, there is no way he should be described as the Underdog... This is 18 years of sponsorship, 7 (?) boats, 4 previous Vendee Globes, not to mention 5 Oceans and BWR. No other skipper has spent the amount of time and money on this race. In fact, even longer sponsors are reusing boats (PRB). 

Alex should still be counted as a favourite to win, there is a long way to go, and every boat out there is going to have issues. 

I hope he can win it... But if there is one thing he is not, it is the underdog. 

100%

 

The underdog title is a reflection of smart marketing.

 

Being so good at marketing is what makes him able to retain a sponsor, get new boats, become a favourite. 

 

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8 minutes ago, steinbrenner said:

which one had boss broken 2016? port or starboard?

Just checked, starboard and was handicapped in SO. Most of the route in SO on port tack, thus maybe Ruyant can maintain pace up to Horn? Then who knows, a long way home...

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28 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

I predicted this in one of my earlier posts. I said one of the Verdier boats would sustain damage. This opens one door for Alex but makes Charlie clear favorite now to win. As to how much it slows Thomas down and if he has to cut it? Arkea Paprec is with Alex so will be interesting to see how they go boat for boat as the drama in this race continues to unfold.

P.S. Looks like Boris and Yannick have rafted up together? Maybe sharing a wine or two.? 

How come it opens a door for Alex and no other sailor? 

Come on ffs with the fanboying

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21 minutes ago, Icedtea said:

How come it opens a door for Alex and no other sailor? 

Come on ffs with the fanboying

 

25 minutes ago, Icedtea said:

100%

 

The underdog title is a reflection of smart marketing.

 

Being so good at marketing is what makes him able to retain a sponsor, get new boats, become a favourite. 

 

Smart marketing to be an underdog..! Really.? That's funny never seem market himself as an underdog.! You on the booze instead of the IcedTea? :D

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38 minutes ago, steinbrenner said:

Just checked, starboard and was handicapped in SO. Most of the route in SO on port tack, thus maybe Ruyant can maintain pace up to Horn? Then who knows, a long way home...

Difference is Alex foil failed due to a collision. If this is a fatigue failure it's reasonable to expect the other foil won't last the distance. 

 

Gutted for Ruyant, really wanted to see him do well. He was showing excellent performance to date. 

 

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26 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Smart marketing to be an underdog..! Really.? That's funny never seem market himself as an underdog.! You on the booze instead of the IcedTea? :D

Iced is right. ....he has promoted the 'underdog' the  'not quite getting the results' in a sporting event brilliantly. Results became secondary for marketing.....enter the stunts.

AT was kissed on the dick hooking up early with Sir Keith Mills who was a marketing/loyalty program innovator. Headed up London Olympics a AC team etc. It was he who mentored, got HB on the hook and AT took it from there.

AT has built a very slick and successful business/promotional model around himself.

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4 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Iced is right. ....he promoted 'not quite getting the results' in a sporting event brilliantly. Results became secondary for marketing.....enter the stunts.

AT was kissed on the dick hooking up early with Sir Keith Mills who was a marketing/loyalty program innovator. Headed up London Olympics a AC team etc. It was he who mentored, got HB on the hook and AT took it from there.

AT has built a very slick business/promotional model around himself.

How about under achiever..! Has he tried that.? IcedTea would be shocked at me a supposed fanboy calling him an under achiever. He'd have to be the biggest budget Imoca boat in the fleet so I reckon I'm not far off. Hugo Boss keep coming back for more. I said earlier that I thought one of the Verdier boats would sustain damage and thats come true. Mistake I made was I said it opened the door for Alex. I should have said it opened the door for all the boats, Cheers IcedTea.! :P

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1 hour ago, BozoC said:

Out of the eight new boats, only two are still presumably in good shape : Arkea-Paprec and Apivia.  

L'ocitanne could be said in "good shape" as well (not sure if Tripon completely replace the hook or not, I think not), but clearly far back ..

For sure they will need to limit the size/power of the foils in the new rules

And really a bummer for Thomas !! :(  :( 

He was my bet for first !  ;(  

 

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8 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Iced is right. ....he has promoted the 'underdog' the  'not quite getting the results' in a sporting event brilliantly. Results became secondary for marketing.....enter the stunts.

AT was kissed on the dick hooking up early with Sir Keith Mills who was a marketing/loyalty program innovator. Headed up London Olympics a AC team etc. It was he who mentored, got HB on the hook and AT took it from there.

AT has built a very slick business/promotional model around himself.

All based on being an excellent stand out sailor.  If he wasn't a good sailor he'd never have got the gig as 1st mate to Sir Robin on the Greenland trip. If he hadn't been a great sailor on the Greenland trip he would not have got the clipper venture skipper gig. If he hadn't been a great sailor, he wouldn't have won the clipper round the world race... etc. Etc.

Even as a youngster, it was obvious when you sailed with Alex that he was exceptional. Yes he made some good friends along the way that have helped him greatly, but if he hadn't been a great sailor, then those friends would not have got him to where he is.

The stunts and the marketing are just that he knows he had to repay the investment in him and he may as well have some fun whilst doing it.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

How about under achiever..! Has he tried that.? IcedTea would be shocked at me a supposed fanboy calling him an under achiever. He'd have to be the biggest budget Imoca boat in the fleet so I reckon I'm not far off. Hugo Boss keep coming back for more. I said earlier that I thought one of the Verdier boats would sustain damage and thats come true. Mistake I made was I said it opened the door for Alex. I should have said it opened the door for all the boats, Cheers IcedTea.! :P

All of that is fair. 

 

Not having the best day at work and probably took it out on Terra, apologies! 

Underachiever might be a more accurate assessment

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Just now, james_007_bond said:

Sodebo Ultim left last night for a try at the Jules Verne Trophy. Gitana Ultim is planning to do the same tomorrow.

Is there a place where one can see both the VG and the record attemps on one map?

https://tropheejulesverne.sodebo.com/

Gitana already left right behind Sodebo and is now leading.

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2 minutes ago, james_007_bond said:

Sodebo Ultim left last night for a try at the Jules Verne Trophy. Gitana Ultim is planning to do the same tomorrow.

Is there a place where one can see both the VG and the record attemps on one map?

 https://tropheejulesverne.sodebo.com/

It would be quite cool if they were to be displayed here http://volodiaja.net/Tracking/

I believe that it is the best bet, anyhow...

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1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

I predicted this in one of my earlier posts. I said one of the Verdier boats would sustain damage. 

Bollocks! 

I predict that all boats will sustain damage. It will make me more right than you. :lol:

Many predicted JK to fail but so long now,  JK 1-0 VPLP :rolleyes:

Again, utter bollocks!

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3 minutes ago, Icedtea said:

All of that is fair. 

 

Not having the best day at work and probably took it out on Terra, apologies! 

Underachiever might be a more accurate assessment

 

4 minutes ago, Icedtea said:

 

Give us some warning next time mate..! Tomorrow's another day I'm tipping a good one. ;)

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20 minutes ago, james_007_bond said:

Sodebo and Gitana left last night for a try at the Jules Verne Trophy.

Is there a place where one can see both the VG and the record attemps on one map?

Not yet. But chances are there will be something.

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30 minutes ago, james_007_bond said:

Sodebo and Gitana left last night for a try at the Jules Verne Trophy.

Is there a place where one can see both the VG and the record attemps on one map?

Not to my knwoledge hope it will appear, but according to my "back of the enveloppe" calculation, first ultime should pass first Imoca around December 12, and longitude South of NZ.

(considering no major issue on Apiviaor at least one ultim, which is very far from probable ...)

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52 minutes ago, oioi said:

Difference is Alex foil failed due to a collision. If this is a fatigue failure it's reasonable to expect the other foil won't last the distance. 

 

Gutted for Ruyant, really wanted to see him do well. He was showing excellent performance to date. 

 

aaaha ok, I didn't catch this, didn't have much time to read being in home office (;

 

still, with fatigue one never knows, chances are from sustaining damage immediately to holding up to the end of the race, we'll see...

I'm gutted for them all when something like this happens, well maybe a bit more for him after the episode in the last edition

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11 minutes ago, k-f-u said:

I'm pretty sure @Volodia already made a combined tracker in the past VG 

Better than nothing,both trackers on the same page (for the JV) :

https://www.ouest-france.fr/sport/voile/trophee-jules-verne/record-trophee-jules-verne-positions-de-coville-sodebo-et-cammas-caudrelier-gitana-7061643

looks like Gitana already passedSodebo

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17 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Better than nothing,both trackers on the same page (for the JV) :

https://www.ouest-france.fr/sport/voile/trophee-jules-verne/record-trophee-jules-verne-positions-de-coville-sodebo-et-cammas-caudrelier-gitana-7061643

looks like Gitana already passedSodebo

Thanks, but too much other crap on that site

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Gitana updates every hour, Sodebo every 2 hours.
Unfortunately the direct link to the Sodebo tacker does not show times - and their site is often sloooow for me...

http://gitana-team.geovoile.com/tropheejulesverne/2020/tracker/?lg=en
https://sodebo-voile.geovoile.com/tropheejulesverne/2020/tracker/

Looks like gitana started ~30 minutes after Sodebo

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5 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

Time for some girders, prehaps AT should have packed some Irn Bru.

 

Maybe just as well he lost so much weight before having to fight in these cramped quarters

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10 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Mad I'm continually looking at what I carry for redundancy and repair for tours remote. Sometimes wonder if it would not be easier just having two fucking boats. 

With no vacuum gear Manfreds suggested use of the 'permeable' conforming type bandages for quitting excess resin a good one.

Already in onboard medical kit used for compression, support, securing dressings, plaster splinting etc. 

So just stock up with more and that kills two birds. Rebuilding shit plus more times ashore for falling over after drinking too many and taking off some bark.

mullbinde-4m.jpg

Another option is to use good quality vacuum storage bags. The valves are good enough to hold a vacuum and if you start with a large enough bag, you can cut it up and tape around a repair and then use the supplied vacuum pump (small mechanical pump) to draw a good vacuum. The below vid works. I have used it.

See below video from around 10:40:

https://www.easycomposites.co.uk/learning/hand-laminate-vacuum-bag-simple-part

 

 

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

Time for some girders, prehaps AT should have packed some Irn Bru.

 

Doing that work in a stable, well light workshop would be something, but to be doing this in a moving, pitching, slamming (watching that camera dance at times) hot and humid boat in the middle of the ocean...amazing, but you got to do what you got to do. 

 

Looking at the tracker this morning he seems back in the game and moving to catch the low coming up.  I guess this will be the first test of this repair and if it holds, I'd not count him out now that second place boat has a broken foil and from what I read here, the first place boat has the same type of foil.  Davies and Burton seemed to have made a great choice and it looks like it will pay off compared to the boats northeast of them.  God, the number of times I watched a lead die as boats sailed the long route around the hole I found.

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4 hours ago, psyclone said:

You gotta hand it to AT, he isnt afraid to think outside the box (even though he is sailing inside one;)).

The guy brings sailing to the masses by making it look cool and doing cool things. To the non sailing people sailing is pretty boring however more people would know Alex Thomson and Hugo Boss than say Ainsley, Outeridge, Slingsby, Burton or any number of crazy Frenchmen who sail these things due to his antics and dedication.

He pushes soo hard at everything. he gets kicked in the arse time and again yet here he is broken but still giving it his all making it interesting and engaging for the masses.

We Aussies should adopt him as one of our own... The Underdog... the little Aussie Battler.

Seriously the guy is a goer and leaves no stone unturned, I wish him luck as I think he gonna need it! 

Whether he does or doesnt finish I truly hope this isnt the last we see off AT racing around the globe. 

100% agree. Olympics is sport, without compromise, no media, whatsapp, snapchat etc etc. The Vendee Globe is sports entertainment. If your not entertaining or otherwise telling a story, then you wont get far when asking a sponsor to fund your £10m+ jolly. Huge credit to Alex and Keith Mills for figuring out how to find and maintain their relationship with Hugo Boss, and make them/Boss feel good each time adversity/screwups have struck. Alex may never be a winner as in first to cross the line, but i would 100% cross the road to shake his hand; he has character in spades.   

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1 hour ago, james_007_bond said:

Sodebo and Gitana left last night for a try at the Jules Verne Trophy.

Is there a place where one can see both the VG and the record attemps on one map?

All I know, my biggest gripe with all these trackers is the wind overlays aren't on by default. I know they are not accurate, but I like to see what is forecasted.  It annoys me that I have to toggle them on every single time I refresh.  It is a sailing race after all, wind and boats are always needed.

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4 minutes ago, oioi said:

Armel Tripon going North?

Zooming in it seems longer than a glitch and interesting that his track is pretty straight till "something happens" then he angles off then I would figure gybed(?)  He sailed off course for @ 6 nm gybed and now 3 nm in the opposite direction in 13 kts of breeze.  Perhaps he hit something being that close to the coast?

 

With quicker tracker updates it can be hard for news to catch up, but I hope there is nothing serious.  So far other then the de-masting all the boats have been able to keep sailing with the skipper being okay.

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

AT has built a very slick and successful business/promotional model around himself.

I was not an Alex fan before, I thought the stunts and 20x a week paid for Instagram posts were tedious. And I wouldn’t be caught dead wearing Hugo Boss of all things. But I’m a fan now and I hope he gets back in it.

The odds of winning this thing from outside France are vanishingly small. Thompson is a smart guy with no give-up who knew enough that it would take multiple tries to maybe win it. And found ways to stay relevant and stay funded. Anybody who thinks he is in this primarily to sell shirts and have a lot of Instagram followers is smoking dope. This guy wants to win and has done everything he can to try. 

I am also rooting for Charlie and Boris and want to see Charal start passing farthest back group next week.

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4 hours ago, terrafirma said:

I predicted this in one of my earlier posts. I said one of the Verdier boats would sustain damage. This opens one door for Alex but makes Charlie clear favorite now to win.

For me CD is the favorite since HB's structural problems. Same speed as TR but it appears to me he is less hot headed and willing to step off the pedal when the risk isn't worth it. Gabart had another golden hand ...

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51 minutes ago, Snowden said:
1 hour ago, oioi said:

Armel Tripon going North?

he is taking a penalty of some form apparently

FRA2 L’Occitane en provence 

FRA2 casse volontairement le plomb d’arbre d’hélice et ne prévient pas la direction de course. FRA2 n’embraye pas le  moteur. (IC 16.3.1 et 16.7) 

FRA2 broke deliberately the propeller shaft and failed to inform the race management. FRA2 did not engage the engine  in gear. (SI 16.3.1 and 16.7) 

FRA2, 4 heures de pénalité à faire en course (IC 11.5)

FRA2, 4 hours time penalty to take when racing (SI 11.5)

 

Man, he should've stopped at Fernando de Noronha for a Caipirinha. Don't think that counts as outside assistance. 

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2 minutes ago, k-f-u said:

FRA2 L’Occitane en provence 

FRA2 casse volontairement le plomb d’arbre d’hélice et ne prévient pas la direction de course. FRA2 n’embraye pas le  moteur. (IC 16.3.1 et 16.7) 

FRA2 broke deliberately the propeller shaft and failed to inform the race management. FRA2 did not engage the engine  in gear. (SI 16.3.1 and 16.7) 

FRA2, 4 heures de pénalité à faire en course (IC 11.5)

FRA2, 4 hours time penalty to take when racing (SI 11.5)

 

Man, he should've stopped at Fernando de Noronha for a Caipirinha. Don't think that counts as outside assistance. 

so another reason why going all electric like HB can be an advantage 

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question for the engineers/ boatbuilders.

what's the best or better term to discuss Ruyant's foil failure?

Thought it might be "resonance", like the infamous Tacoma bridge fail, but then read this

Quote

Just four months later, under the right wind conditions, the bridge was driven at its resonant frequency, causing it to oscillate and twist uncontrollably. After undulating for over an hour, the middle section collapsed, and the bridge was destroyed. It was a testimony to the power of resonance, and has been used as a classic example in physics and engineering classes across the country ever since. Unfortunately, the story is a complete myth.

[snip]

The engineers who investigated its collapsed began to understand the phenomenon quickly; within 10 years, they had a new sub-field of science to call their own: bridge aerodynamics-aeroelastics. The phenomenon of flutter is now well-understood, but it has to be remembered in order to be effective. The two bridges currently spanning the Tacoma Narrows' previous path have shorn up those flaws, but London's Millennium Bridge and Russia's Volgograd Bridge have both had "flutter"-related flaws exposed in the 21st century.

Don't blame resonance for the most famous bridge-collapse of all. The true cause is much scarier, and could affect hundreds of bridges across the world if we ever forget to account for, and mitigate, the fluttering effects that brought this one down.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/05/24/science-busts-the-biggest-myth-ever-about-why-bridges-collapse/

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1 hour ago, Snowden said:

he is taking a penalty of some form apparently

I finally found the official notice board...'

https://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/documents-area/official-notice-board

The bottom right corner contains jury decisions, as well as a table showing what latitude the penalty must be served by and whether or not the penalty has been served.

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3 minutes ago, stief said:

question for the engineers/ boatbuilders.

what's the best or better term to discuss Ruyant's foil failure?

Thought it might be "resonance", like the infamous Tacoma bridge fail, but then read this

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/05/24/science-busts-the-biggest-myth-ever-about-why-bridges-collapse/

Flutter is probably the best word, in essence the foil is being excited at the natural frequency of the structure and the result is fatigue failure. Or it was simply overloaded, we don't know.

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4 minutes ago, samc99us said:

Pretty good article on the various types of vibration, inclusive of flutter, here: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_16/vibration_story.html

Thanks:perfect. --was just about to look for something explaining flutter and noise.

(Ever since Haji mentioned his 'singing' keel last time, been puzzled why flutter-noise doesn't get more attention. Lots of the skippers mention it, sense it, tune it, (instruments record it?), but seem to just accept it. )

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3 minutes ago, danstanford said:

I have heard and seen on some of the Youtube videos that you can put the VG tracking on Windy. Does anyone have the information on how? 

go to windy.com
click the menu button in the top left corner (hamburger icon)
click install plugin
scroll down to regatdata (vendee globe tracker)
click open

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10 minutes ago, stief said:

Thanks:perfect. --was just about to look for something explaining flutter and noise.

(Ever since Haji mentioned his 'singing' keel last time, been puzzled why flutter-noise doesn't get more attention. Lots of the skippers mention it, sense it, tune it, (instruments record it?), but seem to just accept it. )

Prob headed towards a tuned mass damper inside the foil tips at some point in the near future. 

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4 hours ago, oioi said:

Difference is Alex foil failed due to a collision. If this is a fatigue failure it's reasonable to expect the other foil won't last the distance. 

That was what he reported after the incident happened. After the VG16, in later interviews, he said that he is not sure whether it was structural or a collision.

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2 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Prob headed towards a tuned mass damper inside the foil tips at some point in the near future. 

And 'flight' crews having to fill out forms like table 1 (thanks again samc99us)

Quote

The best crew reaction to an unexplained vibration is to analyze the situation for a short period of time. When the vibration is extreme, the indications usually are clear. Analyses of situations may differ, but all must answer these key questions:

  • What parameter just changed — airspeed, flight control, thrust setting?
  • Is the vibration getting worse or is it constant?
  • Will the current flight condition allow for a gradual change of parameters?
  • What parameter can the flight crew feel or see that provides an idea of the cause?
  • If the flight crew makes a small, planned change in a parameter, does the vibration or noise, or both, get worse or better?

After these data points are gathered and analyzed, the flight crew can formulate a plan of action to ensure the continued safety of the flight. After completion of the flight, the crew should fill out a vibration report (table 1).

 

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36 minutes ago, samc99us said:

Flutter is probably the best word, in essence the foil is being excited at the natural frequency of the structure and the result is fatigue failure. Or it was simply overloaded, we don't know.

But does carbon fiber suffer from fatigue failures? With mountain bikes they always note the "non aging" characteristics of CF frames as a plus over aluminium which does experience microcrystalline aging effects during use.

I'd rather think this damage came from excess vibration amplitude ...

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21 minutes ago, sunol said:

English daily has more on LinkedOut's foil breakage from the team manager

and I guess we'll be hearing more about the advantages of  'staaarboard tack" :lol:

(Thanks again yl75 for that find)

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10 minutes ago, minca3 said:

But does carbon fiber suffer from fatigue failures? With mountain bikes they always note the "non aging" characteristics of CF frames as a plus over aluminium which does experience microcrystalline aging effects during use.

I'd rather think this damage came from excess vibration amplitude ...

Aluminum frame failures aren’t from aging but typically insufficient stiffness, most of which are the result of design compromises for ride quality as too large a diameter of tubing will be too jarring for the rider. And once there’s cyclic fatigue it doesn’t take long for 6000 or 7000 series aluminum to fail. 
 

Composite structures can fatigue as well but due to variation in manufacturing and usage - isn’t as well understood or predictable. 

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Good to read Pip discussing polars rather than sentiments. 

Quote

We changed a lot on Medallia in the six months prior to the start of the Vendee, including investing in a whole new sail wardrobe and some outriggers and that meant in terms of how the boat handled and what speeds it could achieve we had to rewrite the book on how to sail this boat fast. Through September and October I went out as religiously as possible and with Paul [Larsen, of Vestas Rocket fame, I presume] we recorded new polars (these are the top speeds the boat could travel in any given wind angle or strength) for the boat. This involved sailing out into Poole bay, then setting the boat up and sailing it for 5 mins at 40 degrees to the wind, then 50, then 60 and so on. Then repeating on the other tack. Always making sure the boat was up to full speed and the correct sails were up for conditions. We recorded all of this data and then sent it away to be analysed, processed and returned to me with a new set of polars that help me now with my weather routing and my performance analysis.

Right now I am using this information all the time to keep pushing Medallia forwards, to make sure I am not wasting even a tiny 0.1 of speed. My days and nights are spent in the cockpit, gazing at the numbers on my instruments, monitoring Course, wind angle, boat speed then checking my rudder angles, the heel angle and how well I am doing against my polars. Any time I feel the boat speed drop I am trying to understand why. If I am under performing against my polars, I tweak, trim, steer up or down a couple of degrees, fine tuning to get my speed back up again. Always wondering if I could be faster. When I have consistently outperformed my polars I adjust them - I am after all still learning how to make this boat go fast and this knowledge I need to bank so we keep developing together.

(IIRC, Cape and Bice talked about 5º tuning in the Bar Karate podcast. Pip uses a nice round 10º)

https://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/20540/glory-days-are-over-pip-hare

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