blunderfull 679 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 https://www.instagram.com/p/CIJCDEzgmUn/?igshid=gk5dq1eb0x1c His mates got his back. 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
huey 2 986 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Armel has had a reasonable run down even taking his penalty ,with the move more west than his bunch,.... so they may split a little some take the shortcut with less wind and Armel to stay in the wind , all vying to catch the next freight train coming through.... I was keen to see Alex inside the boat as opposed to the traditional imoca covered cockpit and if he consumed less food and have better sleep, than the others dealing with the wet and cold....especially if there was the finesse of hand steering from inside , on the waves of the southern ocean. ...then combining that he has been using both foils down wind for lift and reducing the cant to reduce the angle pitch of the forward cant [pivot] effect....was hearing that lessening by ??10 -15 degrees gave quarter to half a knot in reducing induced foil drag even with the less righting moment...The fore triangle also had work to give deeper running , by allowing to flying smaller jibs inside code or assymetric giving better airflow to the main ....allowing tighter flatter main sheeting when needed , through to greater twist and release ...on the said downwind sailing in waves. we have seen how effective Jean is without gybing across the prevailing wind...He picks his spots easier when fronts come through. .. like an old IOR boat still giving the young guns in newer tech a run for their money spent , in tight downwind harbour situations.... Alex apparently had spent time optimising HB for this tactical ability mainly for positioning in the weather cycle ,.. opposed to those on their courses needing covering..there was a new confidence from his design position that would allow a greater speed diferential. ... But like Jeremie , we will never know what potential on the race track was to be realised...It was something I was keen to see. A shame but not the end of the race for others And there is still the story to be written of those now in the southern ocean. and im looking forward to that.... 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheDragon 898 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Sucks for Alex, and takes a lot of the interest out of this race. I wonder who would be interested in taking this HB in the next race? 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cwinsor 164 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Suggest that all who have enjoyed the ATR effort this round drop a note to this guy: Valentin Schoettle, Manager Global Sports Sponsorship at HUGO BOSS Boss will have all sorts of metrics in place to evaluate the ROI on their various sponsorships -- which will inevitably now be less than forecast in this case-- but direct feedback on one of their programs from end-consumers still matters. If AT does decide to try again 2024, it can only help that the Schoettles of the world know they have the right guy as a brand ambassador for sailing. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Miffy 2,144 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, TheDragon said: Sucks for Alex, and takes a lot of the interest out of this race. I wonder who would be interested in taking this HB in the next race? Be curious to see if Hugo Boss/ATR is able to keep going or if someone tries to fill the vacuum. There’s a lot of juvenile “I hate ppl who other ppl like because it makes me seem edgy” floating around but if there isn’t ATR, you’ve literally lost English-media engagement from an org that tried its best to create content have built a following. A lot of teams, you can tell the skipper might be a great sailor but they barely give a shit and the entire programme is to do the minimum to keep sponsors happy until they start the VG then it is “hahahha see ya I’m only concerned about winning” 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bebmoumoute 1,123 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Miffy said: Be curious to see if Hugo Boss/ATR is able to keep going or if someone tries to fill the vacuum. There’s a lot of juvenile “I hate ppl who other ppl like because it makes me seem edgy” floating around but if there isn’t ATR, you’ve literally lost English-media engagement from an org that tried its best to create content have built a following. A lot of teams, you can tell the skipper might be a great sailor but they barely give a shit and the entire programme is to do the minimum to keep sponsors happy until they start the VG then it is “hahahha see ya I’m only concerned about winning” Who are you talking about exactly ? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Miffy 2,144 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 You can formulate your own independent judgment re what programs do a better job giving sponsors a ROI during the race. Suffice to say Alex Thomson Racing has been able to cultivate and hold on to sponsors for a long time for a reason. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SSolo 195 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 On 11/24/2020 at 7:13 PM, Zonker said: the Teams gutted, Alex had undertaken a major repair that the other teams could not have undertaken (Marcus Hutchinson - Linked in team). Alex and the team knew he could make up the deficient and its a real shame he's out, but he will be back to race another day 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GBH 109 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Varan said: I wouldn't bet on it. He has the backing and hopefully that passion still burns inside him in spite of his disappointment. Besides, what else is there for him to do in few years from now? Be a commentator? He can do that so much better from a boat. You'd have to think that his sponsors will looking long and hard at the ROI this time around and they'd be better taking on new blood if they want the Anglo aspect. There are much smarter and younger candidates such as Roberts and Sharp that deserve the step up. A history of gallant failures can only be supported for so long. Tough game with sponsorship and their expectations. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geert 34 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 You have info that shows AT is responsible for breaking his rudder? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tDot 134 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Gutted for AT. I hope he tries for a 6th edition of the race, but would understand if he didn't. The emotional roller coaster that he must have gone through over the past 4-5 days would have been intense, but to me that is one of the defining features of Ocean Racing. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AnotherSailor 449 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 What a bummer! Like everyone else I wonder about the damage. All we know is that there is damage and that he had to disconnect the rudder. I wonder what "disconnecting" means. I assume that it does not mean cutting the rudder away, but rather disconnect the rod with which it is connected to the steering system. It could mean that either the rudder or a support is out of wack. Disconnecting it made it possible to carry on, apparently. Could it mean that the boat is disintegrating here as well? So, not the rudder itself, but the support on the stern. I am suggesting this since a fucked up rudder will mess with you whether it is connected or not. Of course, we know almost nothing, but if this thing is falling apart at the bow and stern the engineers might need to redo some of their math. It almost seems they paid all their attention to the midsection with the foil and keel and failed to recognize the loads on bow and stern? Good luck to AT, first getting safely back to land, and then sorting things out for the next round. Maybe do a few more races before the VG to sort this crap out (although that didn't work too well for Charral). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tDot 134 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Strange that Boss is still being tracked/placed in the rankings. Has he not officially retired, despite the press release? Corum was removed immediately. If we exclude Boss, then 5 of the top 15 boats have dagger boards. That is an amazing testament to the quality of the skippers and the IMOCA design/class in general. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yl75 1,385 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Merde ! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
minca3 191 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, thetruth said: If AT didn't spend so much time in the shed and actually going sailing he would do much better. No one has spent more trying to win this race than him.... According to him he did 20.000 nm preparing for the VG and used a lot of know how from the previous campaign. Judge for yourself whether that wasn't enough Quote Link to post Share on other sites
festus 16 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Alex should stop on Tristan da Cunha. Forecast 10 kts south wind on Sunday. Grab a pint at the Albatross Bar. 9 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
minca3 191 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 hour ago, TheDragon said: Sucks for Alex, and takes a lot of the interest out of this race. I wonder who would be interested in taking this HB in the next race? Pretty much everyone. But that boat won't be cheap, applicants will need proper financing. Also AT might want to do the TJV and RdR with it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hitchhiker 1,153 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Lots of armchair speculation re: the rudder damage. I'm not going to play that game and will rather wait for the info to be released by the team. That said, it is very disappointing that the boat itself has sustained the structural damage reported so far. Now for armchair speculation/questioning of a different sort. Are the boys in front going to be busy gybing? How much of a performance loss is Linked going to see while on starboard gybe? Can Bureau pass PRB at or before The Kerguelens? 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
minca3 191 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 38 minutes ago, GBH said: You'd have to think that his sponsors will looking long and hard at the ROI this time around and they'd be better taking on new blood if they want the Anglo aspect. There are much smarter and younger candidates such as Roberts and Sharp that deserve the step up. A history of gallant failures can only be supported for so long. Tough game with sponsorship and their expectations. Sharp will be 43 at the next VG, competing at the top level he would have maybe 1 or 2 attempts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GBH 109 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 44 minutes ago, Geert said: You have info that shows AT is responsible for breaking his rudder? Don't be fucking stupid - shit happens. But breaking the boat in the first storm shows lack of something - 20000 miles means nothing if you haven't pushed the boat as you do racing in those conditions. Any racing sailor will know that it's racing shows up the issues far more than practice sailing. Red mist descends and you don't throttle back as you would when practicing. We've all been there. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blunderfull 679 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 16 minutes ago, minca3 said: Pretty much everyone. But that boat won't be cheap, applicants will need proper financing. Also AT might want to do the TJV and RdR with it About the boat: who owns it? ATR or HB Inc.? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Manfred 62 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 A pity with Alex and though I wish his Team will bring a new rudder to Capetown and he will be ready by the time CHARAL passes by and do a trial run through the SO, but than, this is wishful thinking. Anyway cheering for Damien, besides clac, clac, clac, does make sense. He is right in there with the first Fowler’s, 20.3kn and I guess we can expect more from him. A tough guy who knows about sailing... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geert 34 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, GBH said: Don't be fucking stupid - shit happens. But breaking the boat in the first storm shows lack of something And that something is AT's sole responsibility so he needs to be replaced? Nothing to do with the design or build of the boat? Did you notice he was in the lead until the bow fell off? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tDot 134 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 16 minutes ago, blunderfull said: About the boat: who owns it? ATR or HB Inc.? As I recall, ATR owns it. I've always wondered what the plan was for the next step in the ATR business model. They've certainly reached their stated goals in providing tangible ROI for a Sponsor, but failed, so far, in their goal of winning the Vendee. Does Alex race again, in the same boat? Does ATR pickup a new driver and put them in the boat? ATR folding doesn't seem logical or likely, given what they have build. Do they build a new boat w/Alex at the helm? This seems least likely. Is there another likely option? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stief 4,231 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 (edited) Poor Pip. Upset with herself that she led with her heart, not her head. Edited November 28, 2020 by stief switched links 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheDragon 898 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Ooy, that will be a tough boat in the SO with the level of exposure she has. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eastern motors 161 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 12 minutes ago, tDot said: Is there another likely option? Ineos buys an Ultime for AT 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 1,423 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 4 hours ago, stief said: Deepest condolences to Alex and his team. He was almost ready to retire from the VG after his finish last round, so I don't expect him to try again. Herrmann next skipper for the Hugo Boss brand? Plus one. Including ideals. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stief 4,231 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Didn't know this, but not surprised. "Without the encouragement and support of Alex I would not be here where I am right now." https://twitter.com/arihuusela/status/1332748210738237441 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 1,423 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 hour ago, GBH said: You'd have to think that his sponsors will looking long and hard at the ROI this time around and they'd be better taking on new blood if they want the Anglo aspect. There are much smarter and younger candidates such as Roberts and Sharp that deserve the step up. A history of gallant failures can only be supported for so long. Tough game with sponsorship and their expectations. Upthread some numbers were shown of the social media interest in AT. He had the highest on that screenshot of all skippers. Thanks for throwing him under the bus. Maybe you should apply. 4 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 1,423 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 hour ago, minca3 said: According to him he did 20.000 nm preparing for the VG and used a lot of know how from the previous campaign. Judge for yourself whether that wasn't enough Pls don’t feed the troll, he is fishing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlechay 715 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 hour ago, festus said: Alex should stop on Tristan da Cunha. Forecast 10 kts south wind on Sunday. Grab a pint at the Albatross Bar. It's all about the swell there, but doesn't lool to bad. Not sure about a pint but they'll have a bottle of Windhoek I guess. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlechay 715 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 2 hours ago, GBH said: You'd have to think that his sponsors will looking long and hard at the ROI this time around and they'd be better taking on new blood if they want the Anglo aspect. There are much smarter and younger candidates such as Roberts and Sharp that deserve the step up. A history of gallant failures can only be supported for so long. Tough game with sponsorship and their expectations. The english speaking world loves "gallant failures" look at the esteem the failures like Shakleton and Scott are held in, never mentioning Amudsen or Nordenskold or Bruce etc.. ATR probably has been a lot more value to the sponsors than Dame Ellen for example. Besides I think he has grown up a lot and really has a shout.. This time it was definitely the boat/designers that have let him down rather than him going balls out and breaking it. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Coconuts.is 47 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 hour ago, tDot said: Strange that Boss is still being tracked/placed in the rankings. Has he not officially retired, despite the press release? Corum was removed immediately. If we exclude Boss, then 5 of the top 15 boats have dagger boards. That is an amazing testament to the quality of the skippers and the IMOCA design/class in general. He probably has not declared officially to the race direction that he has retired. That way he can take advantages of media and rankings until he arrives in cape town. There might also be a money play... but not sure, how, or if any you receive for making to the longitude of cape town. It is a fact that all skippers receive 10 thousand euros after crossing the equator. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yl75 1,385 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Jus watched below movie : https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2165236/?ref_=tt_urv In fact it's not too bad ! the Imoca in the movie is one of the previous HBs I think (the one with the two cockpit entries, and lines in the middle) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 1,423 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 33 minutes ago, stief said: Didn't know this, but not surprised. "Without the encouragement and support of Alex I would not be here where I am right now." https://twitter.com/arihuusela/status/1332748210738237441 Heartwarming. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
troll99 452 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 the group gets more compact! I find the race between 4 sailors, Arkea, PRB, Macq and Malizia interesting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yl75 1,385 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Corum stayed on the tracker, but a bit blurred Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bebmoumoute 1,123 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 52 minutes ago, Herman said: Upthread some numbers were shown of the social media interest in AT. He had the highest on that screenshot of all skippers. Thanks for throwing him under the bus. Maybe you should apply. That's a hell of a marketing analysis... some videos on youtube are making 100k views (vs 20/30k for other ones) You should know that in France, the sponsors ROI is based on one month race village (ok not this year) that attracts hundreds of thousands of visitors from all over the country (most of them non sailors), the fact that the race start is on national and regional TVs, for the whole duration of the race, it is also on national TV (news, sportshows, weather forecast (!!!), etc) on a daily basis, on local and national newspapers as well, thousands of teachers follow the race with their call. We are talking millions of people following the race (and therefore the sponsors). So the best performer on youtube... believe me nobody really cares. This system allows the IMOCA class to thrive. It is mostly based on 2 races, the Vendée of course and the Route du Rhum. The transat Jacques Vabre is also there, but way less important. The audience you get allows smallish companies like PRB to sponsor an IMOCA skipper since 1992 (5 competitive boats built so far), and to win it twice (remind me what race have Alex and Hugo Boss actually won ?). I have also read somewhere on this thread that Alex is the king of the class, and that without him it would struggle... Allow me to laugh !!! It is very good to see a competitve brit, but the class would be the same without him, thanks to the French offshore academies. Finally, lots of people have said he is unlucky, but I can't help myself to see that he was the only foiler to go in the middle of the tropical storm, and he broke the structure... Maybe he should go train with the great Loick Peyron, who's motto is "Fast but not furious'. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snaerk 88 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 2 hours ago, GBH said: You'd have to think that his sponsors will looking long and hard at the ROI this time around ....<snip> .... A history of gallant failures can only be supported for so long. Tough game with sponsorship and their expectations. Hmm ... Peter Blake? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Secret Experiment 85 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 38 minutes ago, littlechay said: The english speaking world loves "gallant failures" look at the esteem the failures like Shakleton and Scott are held in, never mentioning Amudsen or Nordenskold or Bruce etc.. Mallory and Irvine come to mind as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Captn D 1 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Cannot help thinking the old 2016 HB boat would have faired better. It stood up to slot of hard sailing and was no slouch. The lost foil in 2016 was unfortunate and prob cost AT 1st place. If he hadn’t slept through his alarm, he would have definitely won the Route de Rhum!! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent 1,997 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 3 hours ago, blunderfull said: https://www.instagram.com/p/CIJCDEzgmUn/?igshid=gk5dq1eb0x1c His mates got his back. For those who do not read French, message by Fabrice Amedeo, who had to come back to Les Sables d'Olonne and has been chasing back the first half of the fleet, where he belongs, since the restart. For the past two weeks, I am going through a lof of different emotions every day, and I found my ranking at the back of the pack to be excrutiatingly difficult to deal with. But since this saturday, I don't complain anymore. I don't have the right to do so. Because @vendeeglobe2020 has lost one of its top contenders, @alex_thomson_racing , sailing towards Cape Town. But our race has lost much more than that. Alex has revolutionized our sport: his boats are always the most beautiful ones, and are always one step ahead of the competition. Alex has transformed communication around sailing, breaking all barriers: Keel Walk, Mast Walk, Sky Walk. There is him, and then the others. Vendée Globe needs a victory by Alex Thomson. I hope it will be in 2024. And on top of that, Alex is a nice guy and modest. The race is losing one of its top contenders today, but first of all a true gentleman. My thoughs go to him and his team. 22 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geert 34 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 14 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said: So the best performer on youtube... believe me nobody really cares. Sponsors doing business outside France do care. And it's because French didn't bother It's difficult for foreigners to find sponsors. Luckily things have changed for the good and the RQ does a good effort in providing content in English. (just had a look at Apivia's website as I have no clue who they are. Their site is exclusively French. What a missed opportunity). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
troll99 452 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 12 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said: That's a hell of a marketing analysis... some videos on youtube are making 100k views (vs 20/30k for other ones) You should know that in France, the sponsors ROI is based on one month race village (ok not this year) that attracts hundreds of thousands of visitors from all over the country (most of them non sailors), the fact that the race start is on national and regional TVs, for the whole duration of the race, it is also on national TV (news, sportshows, weather forecast (!!!), etc) on a daily basis, on local and national newspapers as well, thousands of teachers follow the race with their call. We are talking millions of people following the race (and therefore the sponsors). So the best performer on youtube... believe me nobody really cares. This system allows the IMOCA class to thrive. It is mostly based on 2 races, the Vendée of course and the Route du Rhum. The transat Jacques Vabre is also there, but way less important. The audience you get allows smallish companies like PRB to sponsor an IMOCA skipper since 1992 (5 competitive boats built so far), and to win it twice (remind me what race have Alex and Hugo Boss actually won ?). I have also read somewhere on this thread that Alex is the king of the class, and that without him it would struggle... Allow me to laugh !!! It is very good to see a competitve brit, but the class would be the same without him, thanks to the French offshore academies. Finally, lots of people have said he is unlucky, but I can't help myself to see that he was the only foiler to go in the middle of the tropical storm, and he broke the structure... Maybe he should go train with the great Loick Peyron, who's motto is "Fast but not furious'. I agree. It is totally a French thing. It would be different if UK companies invested in more skippers n boats. Say 10 Brits and 20 French. It would be less drama here. Ineos had dominated the cycling sport but it is different from sailing as sailing is MUCH less known to the general public. ROI depends on the size of the Anglo-public whatever it is Youtube, NBC. Also, the UK boatbuilding industry is dying? Now with the single-player, we have a 1:10 chance then it gets very dramatic. Anything could happen. Something breaks then you're behind. 2nd place in the past is pretty good actually. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snowden 500 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 21 minutes ago, snaerk said: Hmm ... Peter Blake? The same Peter Blake that won, inter alia, the Whitbread and the America’s Cup? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Miffy 2,144 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 what the small minded ppl don’t seem to comprehend is unlike attention from their parents, attention during the vendee globe isn’t a zero sum game, there’s plenty to go around and the more genuine independent teams and skippers and sponsors building new boats and competitive programs the better it is for everyone. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGeff 281 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 This is really gutting news and updates. One can only imagine what AT is going through right now as he heads to port. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent 1,997 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 15 minutes ago, Geert said: Sponsors doing business outside France do care. And it's because French didn't bother It's difficult for foreigners to find sponsors. Luckily things have changed for the good and the RQ does a good effort in providing content in English. (just had a look at Apivia's website as I have no clue who they are. Their site is exclusively French. What a missed opportunity). Apivia is a French insurance company which is, as far as I know, ONLY focused on the French market. Give me one fucking good reason for them to have a website in English, other than, of course, avoiding you to be offended. Find me a UK national / local insurance company who caters only for Brit customers and show me the French version of their website. 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geert 34 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Laurent said: Apivia is a French insurance company which is, as far as I know, ONLY focused on the French market. Give me one fucking good reason for them to have a website in English, other than, of course, avoiding you to be offended. Google globalisation. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent 1,997 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Geert said: Google globalisation. Google ROI and Market Segmentation. And I repeat my request: show me the French web site of a UK insurance company that caters only for British customers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bebmoumoute 1,123 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Geert said: Google globalisation. Lol what a joke... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tDot 134 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Coconuts.is said: He probably has not declared officially to the race direction that he has retired. That way he can take advantages of media and rankings until he arrives in cape town. There might also be a money play... but not sure, how, or if any you receive for making to the longitude of cape town. It is a fact that all skippers receive 10 thousand euros after crossing the equator. That's interesting, I'd not heard that before. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steinbrenner 22 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 44 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said: That's a hell of a marketing analysis... some videos on youtube are making 100k views (vs 20/30k for other ones) You should know that in France, the sponsors ROI is based on one month race village (ok not this year) that attracts hundreds of thousands of visitors from all over the country (most of them non sailors), the fact that the race start is on national and regional TVs, for the whole duration of the race, it is also on national TV (news, sportshows, weather forecast (!!!), etc) on a daily basis, on local and national newspapers as well, thousands of teachers follow the race with their call. We are talking millions of people following the race (and therefore the sponsors). So the best performer on youtube... believe me nobody really cares. This system allows the IMOCA class to thrive. It is mostly based on 2 races, the Vendée of course and the Route du Rhum. The transat Jacques Vabre is also there, but way less important. The audience you get allows smallish companies like PRB to sponsor an IMOCA skipper since 1992 (5 competitive boats built so far), and to win it twice (remind me what race have Alex and Hugo Boss actually won ?). I have also read somewhere on this thread that Alex is the king of the class, and that without him it would struggle... Allow me to laugh !!! It is very good to see a competitve brit, but the class would be the same without him, thanks to the French offshore academies. Finally, lots of people have said he is unlucky, but I can't help myself to see that he was the only foiler to go in the middle of the tropical storm, and he broke the structure... Maybe he should go train with the great Loick Peyron, who's motto is "Fast but not furious'. Very interesting insight! But do we know for sure he actually broke it in Theta? Have I missed something or it is just a guesswork? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent 1,997 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 I am gutted for Alex; he has thrown more energy and effort on the VG than most, and maybe any, other sailor in this edition. One has to wonder if he has reach the limit of what you can do by working "alone" in your backyard, when the competition is mutualizing effort. As said by others, there are "sailing academies" in France where all key IMOCA sailors are working together to get better: not only on the water, but also weather analysis, nutrition, sleep management, safety, boat tuning, etc. When the rest of the competition is so well organized, trying out on your own, without getting into that virtuous circle of constant mutual improvement is making success even tougher. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bebmoumoute 1,123 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Just now, steinbrenner said: Very interesting insight! But do we know for sure he actually broke it in Theta? Have I missed something or it is just a guesswork? We don't, but from past experience, skippers that sail their boats too hard often end up being "unlucky". Bernard Stamm was like that, and he broke several boats. Alex was the only foiler to go throught hte midle of Theta. I also remember the images from the French Navy in the South in the 2016 VG, Le Cleac'h was sailing relatively flat and Alex was a lot more heeled with lots of sail area. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geert 34 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, Laurent said: Google ROI and Market Segmentation. And I repeat my request: show me the French web site of a UK insurance company that caters only for British customers. ROI? I understand. Providing some English content on their site would for sure require them to invest 3.000€. About 300 million people worldwide speak French, in a very limited number of countries... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bebmoumoute 1,123 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Geert said: ROI? I understand. Providing some English content on their site would for sure require them to invest 3.000€. About 300 million people worldwide speak French, in a very limited number of countries... You clearly don't undertand the "They only operate in France" part... (which is true for a lots of Vendée Globe sponsors). I am pretty sure most people in France speak French... but what do I know, I am only French. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tDot 134 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 2 hours ago, eastern motors said: Ineos buys an Ultime for AT I hope not. I don't find the Ultime class as interesting. The thought of AT and Ben Ainslie is even less appealing. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stief 4,231 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said: I am pretty sure most people in France speak French In Paris, maybe. All the other have despicable accents and need to learn real French. Edited November 28, 2020 by stief Oops. Wrong thread. Thought I was in PA 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BozoC 112 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 6 hours ago, k-f-u said: but you understand that this is not a selfie he took today but a press/PR photo taken before the race? ..... and he already knew that the Hugo Boss boat was not really tested (they were adding pieces to the foilers just the week before the start) , will break (so he had to take 30 kg of carbon plate, glue.....) and was sure he will not win. He has now 4 years to make this one reliable (and not build another one that will break) and it will win because it's probably a very fast boat... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geert 34 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Bebmoumoute said: You clearly don't undertand the "They only operate in France" part... (which is true for a lots of Vendée Globe sponsors). I am pretty sure most people in France speak French... but what do I know, I am only French. You clearly don't understand France is not going to stop globalisation. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
troll99 452 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Geert said: You clearly don't understand France is not going to stop globalisation. you don't understand the part of "the people interested in sailing". France is prob only the country that is crazy about sailing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Miffy 2,144 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 11 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said: I also remember the images from the French Navy in the South in the 2016 VG, Le Cleac'h was sailing relatively flat and Alex was a lot more heeled with lots of sail area. I remember that footage. Armel had both foils and Hugo Boss was sailing on her hull without a foil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steinbrenner 22 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said: We don't, but from past experience, skippers that sail their boats too hard often end up being "unlucky". Bernard Stamm was like that, and he broke several boats. Alex was the only foiler to go throught hte midle of Theta. I also remember the images from the French Navy in the South in the 2016 VG, Le Cleac'h was sailing relatively flat and Alex was a lot more heeled with lots of sail area. Fair enough, though "my" first VG was 2008 when many top sailors were DNF due to various failures, I mean was Loick Peyron dismasted due to pushing too hard or not being cautious, being too furious? Shit happens, things break and skippers make mistakes. But I agree it's reasonable to think that maybe it had something to do with Theta, after all Dalin ran away from it, move maybe worth winning Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bebmoumoute 1,123 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 minute ago, troll99 said: you don't understand the part of "the people interested in sailing". France is prob only the country that is crazy about sailing. Probably should add New Zealand 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bebmoumoute 1,123 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, steinbrenner said: Fair enough, though "my" first VG was 2008 when many top sailors were DNF due to various failures, I mean was Loick Peyron dismasted due to pushing too hard or not being cautious, being too furious? Shit happens, things break and skippers make mistakes. But I agree it's reasonable to think that maybe it had something to do with Theta, after all Dalin ran away from it, move maybe worth winning Yes Loick Peyron dismasted then, but he also has a very successfull track record; including taking over unsuccessfull projects and turning them over in no time. Again, I don't think Alex has won a single race in his 16 years with Hugo Boss. I am also not saying Alex has not been unlucky at times, but when you break stuff all the time, maybe you should question your style and try not to push the limits (both in terms of design and actual sailing) as much as he has. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snaerk 88 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 47 minutes ago, Snowden said: The same Peter Blake that won, inter alia, the Whitbread and the America’s Cup? Whitbred after four "fayled" attempts .... but alwaze "gallant", & alwaze valew for sponsorz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shaggybaxter 2,716 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 I'm gutted for Alex, as I would be for any of the competitors. But for me, I would happily get on my knees and kiss the arse of any Frenchman for giving us one of the worlds most fascinating and compelling yacht races on the face of the planet. Let alone the fact they seemingly welcome and embrace any non French sailor willing to give it a go. For mine. the VG don't need marketing or sustainability advice from English speaking race circuits, they seem to be doing a pretty bang up job without us. Which one of these pics would you want associated with your yacht race? 11 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent 1,997 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Meanwhile at the front... Very good showing by Kevin Escoffier who is averaging more than 20 knots Boat Speed in the last 24 hours. He will most likely be on the virtual podium by next schedule. He has been in the South before and I am sure he understands even better than others how important it is to be pedal to the metal right now, and delay the passing of the front. The only one who is faster over the last 24 hr is Sebastien Simon on Arkea Paprec who is making an impressive come back. Sam Davis and Giancarlo Pedote are the last "victims" of the front and have gibed to starboard tack. And Sam lost a spot in the ranking in the operation. Next will be Damien Seguin (who is doing a terrific race so far, on a non foiler) and Louis Burton on Bureau Vallée 2. A lot of people thought that Louis and Sam with their deep South course would pass the middle of the road pack, but I do not think this is going to happen. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geert 34 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said: Probably should add New Zealand And The Netherlands, and a few millions of other people worldwide. Strange to be on this forum and not realise that. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent 1,997 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said: I'm gutted for Alex, as I would be for any of the competitors. But for me, I would happily get on my knees and kiss the arse of any Frenchman for giving us one of the worlds most fascinating and compelling yacht races on the face of the planet. Let alone the fact they seemingly welcome and embrace any non French sailor willing to give it a go. For mine. the VG organisers don't need marketing or sustainability advice from English race organisers. Which one of these pics would you want associated with your yacht race? Be careful what you wishing for... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shaggybaxter 2,716 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Just now, Laurent said: Be careful what you wishing for... As long as you don't turn around....and I can keep my eyes shut.... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
troll99 452 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Some talked about Alex passing Theta. I think it is better to do that than get the boat broken in SO. it would be annoying. He hadn't any time to test the boat properly. So the test through Theta was sufficient for that. At first, I thought it was crazy but later, it made sense for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Coconuts.is 47 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 https://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/vendee-globe/le-vendee-globe-plus-suivi-que-le-tour-de-france-et-roland-garros-19-11-2020-12658854.php "More people are following The Vendee Globe then followed the tour de France and [some tennis match]". Fantastic news coming out of French Media. This is huge for our sport because the budget for a team in the tour de france is larger then a IMOCA budget! 5 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hitchhiker 1,153 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Looks like Apivia was the only one to gybe, some time around the 1700 update. I still need to work on TWA's in polar! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geert 34 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, troll99 said: Some talked about Alex passing Theta. I think it is better to do that than get the boat broken in SO. it would be annoying. He hadn't any time to test the boat properly. So the test through Theta was sufficient for that. At first, I thought it was crazy but later, it made sense for me. A few days after Theta their was an interview with the ATR team captain and he confirmed AT sailed the boat very conservatively. They have all the data from the sensors, so if he was wrecking the boat they would know. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
troll99 452 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Geert said: A few days after Theta their was an interview with the ATR team captain and he confirmed AT sailed the boat very conservatively. They have all the data from the sensors, so if he was wrecking the boat they would know. ok, interesting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WLIS Jibing 277 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Not to distract from the AT chatter, but just want to say that Dalin has been sailing one hell of a race. He avoided any damage in theta, then clawed back about 200 or so miles from AT in and after the doldrums, caught up with TR and then took the lead in a gybing contest, then extended heading South East- threading the needle of huge wind holes - by pulling off a crazy number jibes. I don’t think any other sailor has sailed as technically perfect a race as he has so far, and I think it would be extremely difficult to pull of what he has. He has earned his current position and hope he can keep up the great work in the SO! 11 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bebmoumoute 1,123 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, Geert said: A few days after Theta their was an interview with the ATR team captain and he confirmed AT sailed the boat very conservatively. They have all the data from the sensors, so if he was wrecking the boat they would know. So what did the other foilers do in Theta ? They sailed the boat very very conservatively ? Clearly the Alex conservative is not the same as the other ones. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bebmoumoute 1,123 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Just now, WLIS Jibing said: Not to distract from the AT chatter, but just want to say that Dalin has been sailing one hell of a race. He avoided any damage in theta, then clawed back about 200 or so miles from AT in and after the doldrums, caught up with TR and then took the lead in a gybing contest, then extended heading South East- threading the needle of huge wind holes - by pulling off a crazy number jibes. I don’t think any other sailor has sailed as technically perfect a race as he has so far, and I think it would be extremely difficult to pull of what he has. He has earned his current position and hope he can keep up the great work in the SO! We don't know if he didn't sustain any damage actually. Dalin is known to be part of the "zeo communication on problems" group. You could well argue that Le Cam has also sailed a near perfect race so far. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Corryvreckan 351 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 24 minutes ago, Laurent said: [snip] Sam Davis and Giancarlo Pedote are the last "victims" of the front and have gibed to starboard tack. And Sam lost a spot in the ranking in the operation. Next will be Damien Seguin (who is doing a terrific race so far, on a non foiler) and Louis Burton on Bureau Vallée 2. A lot of people thought that Louis and Sam with their deep South course would pass the middle of the road pack, but I do not think this is going to happen. Yeah, I've been worrying about Sam's lower boatspeed for the past few skeds. I was really hoping she'd pull around the main chasing peloton. I think Louis Burton might manage to catch up to them eventually, but maybe Sam's older boat doesn't quite have the boatspeed? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
troll99 452 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Dalin can afford to preserve the boat while in such a large lead. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wick 49 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 51 minutes ago, Laurent said: I am gutted for Alex; he has thrown more media outreach to us English speakers energy and effort on the VG than most, and maybe any, other sailor in this edition. One has to wonder if he has reach the limit of what you can do by working "alone" in your backyard, when the competition is mutualizing effort. As said by others, there are "sailing academies" in France where all key IMOCA sailors are working together to get better: not only on the water, but also weather analysis, nutrition, sleep management, safety, boat tuning, etc. When the rest of the competition is so well organized, trying out on your own, without getting into that virtuous circle of constant mutual improvement is making success even tougher. Maybe I/we have overlooked or are not aware of the energy and effort thrown at the VG by all the other teams. I’m sure it is considerable, as they are out on the course now. I agree with you on the mutualizing effort and the ecosystem that France has developed around offshore racing. I would think that the club and inshore race structure must also be strong for development. Can anyone comment? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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