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9 minutes ago, sidmon said:
4 hours ago, Herman said:

....nit-picking war regarding planes, satellites, DSC, SART, EPIRB,  PLB, whatever it is in this thread?

Considering how the foiler boats are having serious structural issues, the probabilities of all that being front and center is a not insignificant probability.

Beyond that, how these technologies play out in the real world matter, and accurate information about them is important....

Yep.

Still thinking why didn't he use mandatory grab bag sat phone during all those 11 hours in that raft?

Was it in second grab bag that be didn't have time to grab??

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":A 2h18 heure française, le team PRB a été informé du sauvetage de Kevin Escoffier par Jean Le Cam. " Kevin has been rescued.  

Give it a rest chaps. HB was another attempt at evolution, and they should be applauded for spending a fuck ton of money to do so. If you want to try and be innovative you run the risk of breakages al

VG sailors at sea in the rough A translation: JLC: Damien can you receive me ? DS: Yes Jean I can (garbled)... I don't think you're receiving me that well but I receive you very well. JL

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2 minutes ago, ivansh said:

So I may have missed it, but are the rescuers going to get any sort of redress from RC? Is LC going to have Kevin on board for the rest of the way? Can Kevin help out, or does he just have to sit there?

A Yes, a no and a 'what happens on tour stays on tour'.

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At this point it seems reasonable to say that something is not 100% on Sam's boat.  At last sched uldate they are side by side separated by only 16 nm and Isabelle has 4 kts on her.  14.9 for Sam vs 18.9 for Isabelle.  If Sam is sailing a conservative race then this makes sense, but up till a week ago she had been holding with Burton.

In the next sched I would see Isabelle drawing ahead and maybe setting sights on Pedote.  Great sailing on her part, but would love to get a picture on Sam's situation for she's not one to back off (I remember her one VOR leg where SCA won and pushed hard in tough seas.)

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33 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

The virtual boats seem comparable to the 2016 edition's new boats.  Top-end speed is 22-23 kts.  But can sail at speed in heavy conditions without worries about sea state or breakage (and current also isn't relevant), which evens the odds.  The virtual fleet took an early lead, all the way through Theta, but then AT and the other newest-gen foilers sailed away from the virtual fleet after that for a while.  The virtual fleet has caught back up now, with AT having his problems and several boats slowing to help with the rescue, mostly by being able to sail near the ice limit in heavy conditions without concern for breakage (beyond Burton's route).  The lead pack is currently Southeast of Dalin.

Gabart, Peyton, Le Cleach, Lipinski, Riou, and a bunch of other pros are doing it, and many of them are taking it seriously and doing well.  Alberto Bona is the leader among "certified" participants.

Thanks. I like this time the official tracker has the VR button to see the leader. Too, good points about using Zezo in the VR thread (nice thread again, btw), and the limitations of the VR game. Agree about the many pros who play. Keep running across them in tweets and vids. Would be a long list indeed. 

Herman uses OpenCPN, Hitch Expedition, Kevin Saliou implemented a simple squid weather routing for Windy users.  If there's a weather routing thread tomorrow, would be great  to get your insights too. Hoping an Adrena anarchist jumps in too. Cheers.

Time for your container thread again? :D

 

Edited by stief
added link to container thread
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1 hour ago, Hitchhiker said:

So, I have moved the routing waypoint to a completely random point beyond the Kergs.  

Routing for the top three at the moment and have been taking updates for 0400, 1700 and 2100 for tracking.

Also recording Boss and Cam for curiosity only.

One note, when the race started I was noting TWA and BS for Boss at every update with the idea of building Polars based on those numbers. Then I started recording for all the top five boats pretty much every update. I have filled 11 pages of a note book which I then transcribed into a polar file.  Very rudimentary and somewhat of a medieval approach for sure. But, I found and posted some pics earlier, before Boss broke down and then had the rudder failure, that the results were getting pretty close to actual position reports.

So, where am I going with all this waffle?  In the last few days using Boss polars to route the top three, they cannot match the  polar speeds of Boss.  I'm currently trying to adjust and running at 97% in the day and 96% night.  But, they still seem slower.  Probably completely meaningless dross really.  I may have a go at recording the Apivia numbers and see what happens. 

IMG_5119.jpg

Vendee20.JPG

Great effort. 

Could you do a data extract from Boris Hermann website and build a set of polars for  sea explorer? Should be reasonably accurate

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http://www.courseaularge.com/vendee-globe-comment-prb-a-t-il-pu-couler-la-stabilite-des-imoca-a-foils-en-question.html?fbclid=IwAR2TijESLl3TjI4WaF2v9RhxxSoqdu1_stjwKJhXjaHA0OY3sAk7LExmq6E

DESSIN-N%C2%B011-_-IMOCA-sur-foil-et-Canting-Keel-696x476.png

 

Kevin Escoffier is safe and sound. It is a huge relief for those close to him, his team, the race director and all the other skippers at sea. After a complicated and stressful night and the story of Kevin Escoffier which is cold in the back, the question arises of the IMOCA gauge and safety aboard these foilers at the very moment when the fleet is approaching the southern seas.

Kevin recounts, while the water submerges part of his boat in less than 2 minutes, that he told himself that no IMOCA could not sink before jumping in extremis in his life raft and seeing his boat almost sink in front of him. A rare accident that should never have happened normally.This is the whole history of the Vendée Globe boats, where architects and sailors have always sought after each edition to improve the safety of sailors.

Jean Sans, who was in charge of the IMOCA gauge for a long time, writes in the Special Issue No. 1 of Course Au Large that we published just before the start of the race that the appearance of the foils brings the issue of the stability debated at the end of the last century on the Archimedean IMOCAs.  What should be the stability criteria to be taken into account during phases of flight or during sudden transitions between flight mode and Archimedean mode (in one direction or the other)? Not easy to write a protocol.But it seems obvious to me that a crash at 25/30 knots from flight mode to Archimedean mode with a charging up to the mast, which results in a very advanced center hull, a nose-down attitude and a deceleration over a few seconds will be difficult. to secure. 

And he adds:” Let us add that the wingspan and its corollary, the increase in the supporting surface of the foils (therefore of the possible lift) currently not framed by the gauge, resemble like two drops of water the problem of the past years with the height of the masts or the excessive stiffness of the canvas resulting in the reduction of Avs.We see that transforming a sailboat which owes its balance to Archimedean laws into a machine flying at water level whose balance is governed by totally different physical laws, will require in-depth studies. The prescriptions imposed by IMOCA, in particular in 2015 to limit the Archimedean mode, will also have to apply to the supporting surfaces of these boats in order to regulate the flight mode. 

Following Kevin's accident on his IMOCA, Jean Sans gave us more explanations:

 

How could PRB have sunk?
The boat behaved like a wallet that you fold with the hinge in the middle at the bottom level where on an IMOCA, there is less resistance here. The front went into a wave. It makes a vertical force. The stern rests and this breaks at the most fragile place of an IMOCA, where the keel well is and where there is no material. The entire front part is concrete because sailors hardly ever go there. It is well structured, there is a shell, not a lot of holes. The most fragile area is the central part. As a rule, if you press in the middle, it will break. This is the maximum sagging location. As you have to be able to live in the boats, you need space to put the chart table, the bunks, the cockpit.The roof is an opening in the deck. And between the roof and the bridge, there are windows. There is less resistance there.

We thought the IMOCA gauge was preventing a boat from sinking?
The IMOCA gauge does not calculate. She doesn't take care of that. The dynamic is never taken into account.
An IMOCA cannot sink if its integrity is not reached. If it's broken in half, the keel must have fallen. I think we will find our nose at the Kerguelen. IMOCA will not flow by itself. The keel will tear off and the front and rear part will float between two waters and reappear. The IMOCA gauge is a restriction gauge.

Should we fear for other boats?
The new boats have surely been studied in their entirety. We took into account the holes to pass the foils, the forces generated by the foils. On the other hand, when you modify a boat by adding foils to it. It changes. Kevin is an engineer. The boat is from 2008. It's been 12 years. The means of calculations have changed, as has the modeling. Manufacturing has evolved. When we redo the calculations on an existing hull, we cannot integrate the aging of the structures that were built.

After the race, there will certainly be a big reflection between architects and the IMOCA class.

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35 minutes ago, Your Mom said:
1 hour ago, stief said:

Mad--you're playing around with Zezo, right? Just wondering how easily the Virtual boats can check Zezo routes and polars against the actual boats.

These are the best polars for the virtual boats:

http://toxcct.free.fr/polars/

You can also download the polars from there if you want to play with them.

Zezo is great for free routing.

The virtual boats seem comparable to the 2016 edition's new boats.  Top-end speed is 22-23 kts.  But can sail at speed in heavy conditions without worries about sea state or breakage (and current also isn't relevant), which evens the odds.  The virtual fleet took an early lead, all the way through Theta, but then AT and the other newest-gen foilers sailed away from the virtual fleet after that for a while.  The virtual fleet has caught back up now, with AT having his problems and several boats slowing to help with the rescue, mostly by being able to sail near the ice limit in heavy conditions without concern for breakage (beyond Burton's route).  The lead pack is currently Southeast of Dalin.

Gabart, Peyton, Le Cleach, Lipinski, Riou, and a bunch of other pros are doing it, and many of them are taking it seriously and doing well.  Alberto Bona is the leader among "certified" participants.

@stief, this is the new set I'm looking to use. Way better.;)

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1 hour ago, stief said:

Hope this isn't an escalation. He seems safe (still checking if this latest translated  update on the Arkea page has anything different from the info given 9 hrs ago. "Horn" is ? foil stub? )

https://www.teamarkeapaprec.com/actualites/161/arkea-paprec-fait-route-pour-se-mettre-a-l-abri-et-gerer-les-degats-sur-le-foil

Translation of the article above:

"Since this morning, after hitting an unidentified floating object, at 9h20, French time, Sébastien Simon has put the race on hold. He is sailing with the mainsail down (only the top of the square head is up) and the storm jib. It is safety first, on board ARKEA PAPREC. 

Due to the upcoming very rough sailing conditions, (more than 30-35 knots of wind, 5 meters waves), Sébastien, in coordination with his team, has decided to sail North to get away from the strongest winds and waves. Tonight, the focus is to keep the boat safe. The boat is damaged around the starboard foil. The goal is to strain the least the boat, by limiting the speed and the associated loads during the cold front passage over Sébastien, and to escape most of the low pressure system in the coming night. Tomorrow, in an area wehre the boat will be less tested by the strong winds and the waves, Sébastien will be able to assess with a cool head what are the possibilities to repair the boat, and set up different scenarios with his team."

 

Obviously, they want to try to repair, but pulling out of the race is not out of the question yet...

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Gad, I love this place.

Despite all the frustrations, still THE  best place to follow RTW racing--even when in other languages. Japanese and Italian translators yet?

Thanks Opal, Laurent, Mad, YourMom, and more. Will credit when reaction limits expire.

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8 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

If Kevin has to go to Australia Jean will be better off to start eating him now.

Vessel transfer somewhere coming up maybe HB.

Kevin is supposed to get transferred to the French navy vessel Nivose, somewhere North of Kergelen Islands around December 7th. It was announced during the French dailynews show on Vendée Globe website, yesterday I believe.

Obviously, it is not done yet, and there is some coordination taking place with the French Navy to see if the Nivose can be on site at that time...

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7 minutes ago, Laurent said:

Translation of the article above:

"Since this morning, after hitting an unidentified floating object, at 9h20, French time, Sébastien Simon has put the race on hold. He is sailing with the mainsail down (only the top of the square head is up) and the storm jib. It is safety first, on board ARKEA PAPREC. 

Due to the upcoming very rough sailing conditions, (more than 30-35 knots of wind, 5 meters waves), Sébastien, in coordination with his team, has decided to sail North to get away from the strongest winds and waves. Tonight, the focus is to keep the boat safe. The boat is damaged around the starboard foil. The goal is to strain the least the boat, by limiting the speed and the associated loads during the cold front passage over Sébastien, and to escape most of the low pressure system in the coming night. Tomorrow, in an area wehre the boat will be less tested by the strong winds and the waves, Sébastien will be able to assess with a cool head what are the possibilities to repair the boat, and set up different scenarios with his team."

 

Obviously, they want to try to repair, but pulling out of the race is not out of the question yet...

No idea if it's feasible,  but possibly drop the broken foil out of the boat,  repair the structure and carry on. If that's not feasible,  retirement?

I can't see how he would have the materials on board to make the structure strong enough for foiling loads. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Zonker said:

And you know that how? There is LOTS of garbage floating around in the ocean.

The garbage outnumbers whales by a lot.

Western south atlantic humpbacks have recovered to over 25,000 - and it is a great thing, but in commercial shipping circles, there is talk about increasing research re how to signal marine wildlife away. Yes there's a lot of trash in the ocean - but you don't destroy a keel, foil, rudder or bow hitting microplastics, beer cans, flip flops. 

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1 minute ago, oioi said:

No idea if it's feasible,  but possibly drop the broken foil out of the boat,  repair the structure and carry on. If that's not feasible,  retirement?

I can't see how he would have the materials on board to make the structure strong enough for foiling loads. 

 

I would saw the foil at the hull & epoxy that foil in place inside the casing & repair the hull/casing from inside as much as possible. Wouldn't want that foil shaft out at all.

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1 hour ago, TPG said:

New video from Seb on Facebook. Some pretty substantial damage to the board box and a bunch of water in the boat. :blink:

 

Once again, the auto translate gets messed up when there is too much background noise, I think. (my comments in italic)

"I just hit something in the water... and here is my foil ( clearly, the trailing edge of what would have been at the bottom of the well has been smashed; inline with hitting something hard in the water)

It's broken, damaged. Fuck...
There is strong winds, strong seas, I have water ingress, this is REALLY not the right time...

Here we are inside the boat. I have a water entry right there (pointing to the bottom of the foil well)

I am out of words... On top of that, I really tried to stay prudent, conservative.

(then images of water sloshing inside the rudder area, and near the foil well)

The whole bottom tab of the foil well is exploded....

I successfully put the boat on port tack to try to get out of this Southern storm. The waves are huge. Let me try to show you that...

Sometimes the waves go over the boat. The waves are really huge. The boat is pushed around by the sea. I do everything I can to go North, back to the high presure system; I should get there in 2 days. I will be able to do repairs only once I am there. I can't do anything right now, righ here..."

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5 minutes ago, Zonker said:

Logs are pretty pervasive. I've hit more of them than whales. But my point is you can't just say "most probably it was a whale". It's a total guess as to what he hit. 

There's always going to be incident bias - both in reporting & locale reality. I've seen a bloody water tank partially submerged in the Pacific prob from a typhoon or tsunami. I've never spent enough time in the S Atlantic/S Ocean to tell what's down there or studied the drift models re what ends up there.

I also feel with foils/rudder/appendages - skippers have a tendency to say we hit something vs. something didn't encounter the expected loads and it broke.

I also know people don't want to admit hitting sea turtles in a protected sound. And I... remember when wildlife ecosystems around boats used to be something you take out the camera for - and I don't think it is an accident that foiling boats don't have such footage anymore. 

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21 minutes ago, Laurent said:

Kevin is supposed to get transferred to the French navy vessel Nivose, somewhere North of Kergelen Islands around December 7th. It was announced during the French dailynews show on Vendée Globe website, yesterday I believe.

Obviously, it is not done yet, and there is some coordination taking place with the French Navy to see if the Nivose can be on site at that time...

Here's a snip confirming what you said  (we can enjoy Safari's trans of " next affordable land New Zealand")

Quote

Since Tuesday 2:18 a.m., Jean Le Cam has been sailing... in doubles. The question therefore arises of Kevin Escoffier's landing. The Nivôse, a frigate of the French Navy based in Réunion and responsible, among other things, for fisheries surveillance, could be called upon to recover the skipper of PRB between the Kerguelen archipelago and Crozet. "There are not many solutions in these countries," explains Jacques Caraës, the race director. Otherwise, we may have to wait for the next affordable land: New Zealand! "

https://www.vendeeglobe.org/fr/actualites/20748/les-premieres-fleches-de-l-indien

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33 minutes ago, oioi said:

Great effort. 

Could you do a data extract from Boris Hermann website and build a set of polars for  sea explorer? Should be reasonably accurate

I did something about this in the first week of the race or so.

The code+raw data+results is posted here

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2 minutes ago, stief said:

Here's a snip confirming what you said  (we can enjoy Safari's trans of " next affordable land New Zealand")

https://www.vendeeglobe.org/fr/actualites/20748/les-premieres-fleches-de-l-indien

By the time JLC drops off Kevin in 2 week, the condition of his boat has been magically transformed into pre-sale inspection condition. 

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10 minutes ago, Laurent said:

Once again, the auto translate gets messed up when there is too much background noise, I think. (my comments in italic)

"I just hit something in the water... and here is my foil ( clearly, the trailing edge of what would have been at the bottom of the well has been smashed; inline with hitting something hard in the water)

It's broken, damaged. Fuck...
There is strong winds, strong seas, I have water ingress, this is REALLY not the right time...

Here we are inside the boat. I have a water entry right there (pointing to the bottom of the foil well)

I am out of words... On top of that, I really tried to stay prudent, conservative.

(then images of water sloshing inside the rudder area, and near the foil well)

The whole bottom tab of the foil well is exploded....

I successfully put the boat on port tack to try to get out of this Southern storm. The waves are huge. Let me try to show you that...

Sometimes the waves go over the boat. The waves are really huge. The boat is pushed around by the sea. I do everything I can to go North, back to the high presure system; I should get there in 2 days. I will be able to do repairs only once I am there. I can't do anything right now, righ here..."

 Brilliant thanks Laurent. 

Watching the video,  why is he showing water in the rudder compartment? This is (should be) a separate water tight area. Did the UFO cause damage in this area to? A broken foil case should not cause flooding behind the aft bulkhead, unless I've missed something ( wouldn't be the first time...)

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2 minutes ago, OPAL said:

I think she works out of REUNION a lot, normally at around 12 knots.

NIVOSE-228746000.jpg

Yes, but I believe the Nivose also patrols the French waters around the Kerguelen Islands and the Crozet Islands to ensure fishing rights. If I remember well, the famous videos of Armel Le Cléac'h and Alex Thomson, last time around, deep in the South Indian Ocean were filmed by a French Navy chopper, from the Nivose. So she is based in La Réunion island for logistics reasons, but I suspect she spends most of her time way further South.

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There’s the issue of repatriation. Most deployments down south there are seasonal and unless Kevin wants to spent the south hemisphere summer as a guest of the overseas French fishing or scientific community... covid also limits his options and probably complicates connecting flights. 

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54 minutes ago, stief said:

Herman uses OpenCPN, Hitch Expedition, Kevin Saliou implemented a simple squid weather routing for Windy users.  If there's a weather routing thread tomorrow, would be great  to get your insights too.

Thanks for the positive feedback.  For the most part, I prefer to keep the virtual racing discussion out of the real world threads.  I think because while I'm a decent sailor in real life, with some offshore experience, I'm not a pro and don't want to sound like I think I am, just because I happen to be pretty good at the virtual stuff.

I'm not seeing dramatic differences between the routings from Herman and Hitch versus Zezo.  They generally all seem to be advising routes hugging the ice limit. So rather than posting routings that would be mostly redundant with the excellent work from others, I just occasionally chime in when the virtual routings show me something of particular interest, such as the big patch of light wind that Tripon will have to transition through if he wants to make contact with the front half of the fleet (I'm doubtful, which is a bummer...  I want to see him and Beyou both get back into it).  I also tend to be looking at long-term strategic elements, which is why back when they were exiting Theta, I was looking 10-14 days ahead at what might be happening when they approach the ice limit.

One thing Zezo can't do is help to preserve the boat.  I'm not experienced in OpenCPN, Expedition, or the others, so I don't know if those have options to avoid winds in excess of X and waves in excess of Y.  If so, then I'd think applying those options would result in routings more like Dalin's and less like Zezo's.

PS: Zezo is just a website, not an application.  zezo.org.  Anyone can use it, and it's pretty straightforward to use.  You don't have to be involved with the virtual race at all.

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4 minutes ago, oioi said:

 Brilliant thanks Laurent. 

Watching the video,  why is he showing water in the rudder compartment? This is (should be) a separate water tight area. Did the UFO cause damage in this area to? A broken foil case should not cause flooding behind the aft bulkhead, unless I've missed something ( wouldn't be the first time...)

The rudder compartment thing is my comment. I may be wrong, but we see what I believe is the ram of the autopilot acting on the arm of the rudder shaft...

And if indeed, this is the rudder compartment, good question: water going from the foil well area to the rudder area; how is it possible? Is it water that was there before the hit anyway??? Or can they leave open access hatches between the different compartments (not a good practice I guess, but sometimes you have to get it opened...)

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3 minutes ago, minca3 said:

Isabelle and Sam nearly ran over each other 

 

screen.png

More importantly, it looks like Isabelle crossed in front of Sam and now Sam is only going 5.7 knots.  Definitely something up with Sam.

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2 minutes ago, Roleur said:

More importantly, it looks like Isabelle crossed in front of Sam and now Sam is only going 5.7 knots.  Definitely something up with Sam.

Indeed - they're only a mile apart.  Isabelle on starboard so I wonder if Sam had to keep clear.

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11 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

One thing Zezo can't do is help to preserve the boat.  I'm not experienced in OpenCPN, Expedition, or the others, so I don't know if those have options to avoid winds in excess of X and waves in excess of Y.  If so, then I'd think applying those options would result in routings more like Dalin's and less like Zezo's.

Exactly. With you vetting the Zezo projections, that gives another benchmark for what's missing, like sea state, currents, and the like. Herman and Hitch are constantly fiddling their polars and current/wave state/model inputs to try to account for differences.

Helps share the load of trying to figure out which of the real sailors are doing best. 

As Hitch just confirmed by applying HB polars to the leading boats, HB would have won this race by now :D

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7 minutes ago, Miffy said:

There’s the issue of repatriation. Most deployments down south there are seasonal and unless Kevin wants to spent the south hemisphere summer as a guest of the overseas French fishing or scientific community... 

The Marion Dufresne is doing a monthly rotation between La Réunion and the various islands.

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3 minutes ago, Corryvreckan said:

Indeed - they're only a mile apart.  Isabelle on starboard so I wonder if Sam had to keep clear.

It's weird. When you scroll back the time bar just a fraction, Sam was doing 15kn.

Hope it's just a blip in the tracker

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19 minutes ago, minca3 said:

Isabelle and Sam nearly ran over each other 

 

screen.png

Hope Same yelled starboard (humor).  Now THAT is a close race!  There have been moments we like to call glitches, but as a data guy, it is hard to accept that on a reported schedule update her speed drops 10 kts right at the moment of recording.  I also wonder if, given how close they are/were if they talked on the radio (I would if I knew a cross was coming).  

Time will tell and the RO or Team Davies will put something out so in the mean time... the race goes on.

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33 minutes ago, Miffy said:

also feel with foils/rudder/appendages - skippers have a tendency to say we hit something vs. something didn't encounter the expected loads and it broke.

Hitting that hard stuff called water at 30 plus knots...........:blink:

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27 minutes ago, Miffy said:

By the time JLC drops off Kevin in 2 week, the condition of his boat has been magically transformed into pre-sale inspection condition. 

Minus the wine and everything else that's tasty  

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18 minutes ago, Laurent said:

The rudder compartment thing is my comment. I may be wrong, but we see what I believe is the ram of the autopilot acting on the arm of the rudder shaft...

And if indeed, this is the rudder compartment, good question: water going from the foil well area to the rudder area; how is it possible? Is it water that was there before the hit anyway??? Or can they leave open access hatches between the different compartments (not a good practice I guess, but sometimes you have to get it opened...)

I agree with you,  i watched the video before you translated it and reached the same conclusion that we were seeing the rudder  actuation and autopilot ram

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There has to be a flotsam level after which this kind of racing is too dangerous.

Maybe we are there already.

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Now on the vg website

 

 

At 7:00 p.m. GMT, Sam Davies informed his team that she had struck a UFO. She was heading north at low speed and inspecting her Initiatives-Coeur boat to assess the damage. Sam is fine, she is not injured.

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Just now, oioi said:

Now on the vg website

 

 

At 7:00 p.m. GMT, Sam Davies informed his team that she had struck a UFO. She was heading north at low speed and inspecting her Initiatives-Coeur boat to assess the damage. Sam is fine, she is not injured.

Honestly, this is starting to get old (sigh) Not a knock on the racers AT ALL, but dammit, how can you have a race when fucking holes open up in front of competitors they can't see until *BAM*.  Glad to hear Sam's okay, but the moment these high performance boats are injured in key spots they are taken out of competitive racing, even if sound.

Given how close those two were, tis fate alone that determined which got touched.

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27 minutes ago, Corryvreckan said:
29 minutes ago, Roleur said:

More importantly, it looks like Isabelle crossed in front of Sam and now Sam is only going 5.7 knots.  Definitely something up with Sam.

Indeed - they're only a mile apart.  Isabelle on starboard so I wonder if Sam had to keep clear.

Whatsapp message to take a sail past to look at something slightly more serious?

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1 minute ago, Virgulino Ferreira said:

Any chance of growlers?

I've wondered that.  I took a look at the water temperatures, which are over 20 degrees for some boats (presumably the Arghulas bringing warm water from further north), and others down at 13 or so where Sam is.  Not sure how long a growler would last in that temperature unless it used to be substantially larger, and I doubt they'd set the ice limit for any possibility of large bergs.

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7 hours ago, stief said:

Jack Bouttell (KE's teammate on DFRT) recounts the rescue on the Live. Will sound familiar to most.

 

Wondered what happened to Jack; recalled he had purchased an IMOCA with the hopes of entering this VG; this video confirmed that fact but that his sponsorship fell through and he had to sell the boat.  That's tough. Conrad Colman, whose "adventures" in the last VG were so dramatic, and who was an outstanding commentator/host during the last VOR, also failed to obtain enough financing to enter this VG.  Appreciated Jack's comments on how the DongFeng crew were all awake and sleepless and  What's App while awaiting word of fellow two time DF teammate Kevin Escoffier's rescue, and that, as many have observed, Kevin was particularly "prepared" for such an event, as a guy who is very much within himself, quick thinking, focused (like most of the engineers I have worked with over the years).

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2 minutes ago, stief said:

Re the carnage. Deal with it. The VG is the testing ground for monohull RTW racing. The VOR went OD for this reason, and the two are coming together.

I'll accept that statement on one level.  When boats break because of bad design, when they break because of a weakness or just bad sailing then fine...carnage accepted.

 

When they break because they are hitting shit at high speeds and they can't see what's ahead...why bother with an Ice limit then?  At least they can see/hear them.  here we have another boat impacted by the unseen; not design, not build, not seamanship....

I respect your views almost always, not so much this one.  Racing high performance vessels in a garbage pit with what now seems to be a higher than 1% chance of failure is not something we can just say "deal with it" because this is costing a lot of money...and potential lives.

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This is our worlds reality....Our oceans now have so much crap in it from us it's just so sad. The Vendee, Jules Verne and reports from all others on our oceans suggests now there is a high chance of hitting something. Incredibly sad and scary especially for modern boats traveling at higher speeds .... 
I'm glad I got to do it before this new era of flotsam ..... 
I agree with @stief .... It's what we have and we all know it so either go or don't go..... 
Sounds a bit like "When I was boy....................................

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9 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

Racing high performance vessels in a garbage pit with what now seems to be a higher than 1% chance of failure is not something we can just say "deal with it" because this is costing a lot of money...and potential lives.

This is why I say deal with it: because the RTW races KNOW it's a problem, and ARE doing a great deal to show the mess our oceans (etc) are in. If I have to, I'll kiss Greta, turn the tide on plastics, find out what 11th hr racing is doing,  and  . . ..  if it means hugging a greenie, I'll do so, because they're right.

And they keep failing, But maybe not in our lifetime.

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Something seems a bit... fishy... to me about these UFOs. I am a total amateur who's never been more than 20 miles from shore but it seems to me like it's the foils (keels included) getting wrecked and the hulls themselves don't seem to be impacting anything. If these were man-made objects or ice it would stand to reason that a hull would take an impact every so often with a portion being bow-on (not a glancing blow).

Makes me think these are wildlife collisions partially due to the high speeds and us normal plebeians in our 5ktsbs are safe.

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16 minutes ago, Corryvreckan said:

I've wondered that.  I took a look at the water temperatures, which are over 20 degrees for some boats (presumably the Arghulas bringing warm water from further north), and others down at 13 or so where Sam is.  Not sure how long a growler would last in that temperature unless it used to be substantially larger, and I doubt they'd set the ice limit for any possibility of large bergs.

Should be the topic on tomorrow's Live. 

 

https://twitter.com/VendeeGlobe/status/1334168966655332356?s=20

 

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2 minutes ago, stief said:

This is why I say deal with it: because the RTW races KNOW it's a problem, and ARE doing a great deal to show the mess our oceans (etc) are in. If I have to, I'll kiss Greta, turn the tide on plastics, find out what 11th hr racing is doing,  and  . . ..  if it means hugging a greenie, I'll do so, because they're right.

And they keep failing, But maybe not in our lifetime.

Reasonable...but this is a race, no?  Till just this afternoon a great race between two boats and *poof*...no race.  Not because someone fucked up, something broke, but because of some random shit.  It's like watching a car race and some fan throws an object in front of a car that was doing great.

I don't have an answer right now...I am frustrated, because I have come to enjoy this race, not the carnage.  However, if VG, VOR (Whatever?) or other high speed RTW events do not figure something out eventually sponsorship may dry up because after spending $$$$ the last thing they want to see is their boat limping to port, or sinking.

 

So, they know its a problem, problems should be fixed so I'll be curious how they fix this one.  In the mean time, there are still a few boats I'm focused on and one is still racing hard.  I'm hoping she catches Pedote for I think she is starting to figure out how to do this thing. 

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2 hours ago, Zonker said:

And you know that how? There is LOTS of garbage floating around in the ocean.

The garbage outnumbers whales by a lot.

Indeed!, I think the main increasing and real problem today is that the race courses (the open oceans) are clusterfucked big time by debris of all kinds imaginable, really huge and micro small. Given the advanced engineering and technology applied in faster foiling boats at +30Knts (mono and multihulls) today, I see a big handicap to the sustainability of this kind of races in the open ocean (not inBay events like AmericasCup, etc.). The sponsors and financial support logically could be well affected... But who knows, maybe not. The drama of sinking boats, rescued, lost or death sailors, etc. increase the interest and audiences by a lot (kind of very sinister and disturbing but that's our real world)...

Horror movies are very popular and have a lot of followers. :)

My personal main concern is that the ocean race circuits, from an objetive point of view, are not that fair anymore, and the real competition of speed, sport and seamanship is totally adulterd by the world's activity and untanaible future. But again maybe this factor, the added russian roulette of garbage, containers, fishing gear, etc. to the merciless ocean where marine life, breaking waves, growlers, etc. are very dangerous and life threats, will indeed increase the support of sponsors in benefit of their own marketing promotion and their audiences... A mortal salad ruled by the numbers of clusterfucks and disgraces this race and others are having at the present time and for sure will have in the forthcoming future.

2020VG. Charal out, HB out, PRB sunk (not clear if a wave or could probably be again UFO given the nature of the area with abundant marine life + huge tons of debris brought by the Agujas current flow from Mozambique channel and african continent), today Arkea Paprec out... maybe now Initiatives Coeur... who's next :)

Pop up the fresh beer & salty corns!! the death racing show must go on...

2 hours ago, stief said:

 

Thanks for that

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6 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

So, they know its a problem, problems should be fixed so I'll be curious how they fix this one.

I firmly believe the foiling boats, once they figure out how to deter marine wildlife and workout the peak loads, will be fine. When the boat is going 20 knots+ and the marine acoustic signature is not machinery - collisions happen. If it were solid human large debris, where’s the impact damage from blunt force destruction? Why does it all look like soft impact. 

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6 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

So, they know it's a problem, problems should be fixed so I'll be curious how they fix this one

Exactly. And they keep trying to find a way around the paradox of safety and performance

From the IMOCA Class rules:

Quote

These rules are constantly evolving, and must be developed in such a way as to prioritise:

  • Safety at sea,

  • Sporting equity,

  • Performance enhancing technical innovation,

  • Cost control for boats and projects/campaigns.

 

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22 minutes ago, astro said:

It is of course possible that PRB hit something.

Except that, Kevin did not report experiencing a collision, AFAIK.

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Google Cheryl Rae Tiegs 1970's.

Not current as she would be over 70 now and those teeth maybe aren't hers anymore. :lol:

Cheryl Tiegs is 73. Lots of facial sun damage. DKK she ever had a gap between her tee

2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

No that is Cheryl. You think Lauren Hutton bigger gap and older. Those two things devices and women I don't mix up. I have had enough of them. 

Definitely Cheryl. Met Lauren Hutton in Mexico years ago; shared a flight on a private plane back to LA; she asked me to read and give my comments on a script she had for a movie in which she would play a lawyer, since I was one; called me a few days later for my comments. Nice person. Really short and tiny. Large gap between teeth. 

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3 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Except that, Kevin did not report experiencing a collision, AFAIK.

How would you pick the difference between the huge bang of the carbon letting go and a collision in just the right place?

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9 minutes ago, Buck Turgidson said:

It's the Vendee Globe. As much as I would love them all to finish, statistics show about half of them will not. 

54% will finish. :D

89/165

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5 minutes ago, despacio avenue said:

Cheryl Tiegs is 73. Lots of facial sun damage. DKK she ever had a gap between her tee

Definitely Cheryl. Met Lauren Hutton in Mexico years ago; shared a flight on a private plane back to LA; she asked me to read and give my comments on a script she had for a movie in which she would play a lawyer, since I was one; called me a few days later for my comments. Nice person. Really short and tiny. Large gap between teeth. 

More fun to discus women than fucking AIS and PLB. 

Dear viewers, where do you find a gap in teeth? it will finish the discussion quicker than AIS EPIRB

A)

Hollywood Realtor- Keller Williams | Ageless beauty, Lauren hutton, Beauty'

B )

Cheryl Tiegs is still a bombshell at 71: See her then and now - AOL  Entertainment

C )

Alexia BARRIER

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