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7 minutes ago, cortosam said:

I m going to try to translate what did say Pascal bidegorry about the rescue of Escoffier in the last podcast of tip and shaft

Good start. Useful Content works better than trolling.. 

btw--aren't there FR forums to follow the race? Never heard a decent answer, other than Ocean Racing Anarchy is THE place.

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":A 2h18 heure française, le team PRB a été informé du sauvetage de Kevin Escoffier par Jean Le Cam. " Kevin has been rescued.  

Give it a rest chaps. HB was another attempt at evolution, and they should be applauded for spending a fuck ton of money to do so. If you want to try and be innovative you run the risk of breakages al

VG sailors at sea in the rough A translation: JLC: Damien can you receive me ? DS: Yes Jean I can (garbled)... I don't think you're receiving me that well but I receive you very well. JL

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2 minutes ago, Varan said:

Fearless routing by Louis Burton has him challenging for the lead.

In my mind, the fact that he jumped the start and took a five hour penalty, and that he followed his own routing earlier in the race (going South before the rest of the pack) makes his current position all the more sweet :).  

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Riguarding the rescue of Escoffier, Hubert Lemonnier said Jean Le Cam found Escoffier using the last position of the EPIRB given by the MRCC of Cape Town and which was coherent with the drifting model they had, there was one before EPIRB position given before but far away , 12nm from where Escoffier had been seen by JLC and they asked Sébastien Simon to go there.

He said that sea state was cahotic when JLC first saw Escoffier and they were as well trying to work with South African army for an intervention by plane, but it didnt seem South African army was really ready to intervene as quick as possible. Escoffier couldnt take his grab bag when i went to rescue raft.

Jean had to take a third reef, Kevin had the ais with him, but they were not sure about the EPIRB, so Escoffier had no Iridium to communicate, no vhf neither.

Escoffier was not that much scared, and even took a nap, he was pretty confident after he saw JLC. The grab bag was sealed by plomb, so it was too long for him to take it.

For the boat sinking, they both very surprised as Escoffier really reinforced the boat.

J2 , two reefs in the main, surfing 27 knots with 30 knots of wind with a TWA of 142, so pretty common conditions. Apart JLC who IS more experienced, the other 3, Boris, Sébastien and Yannick were really impacted psychogically impacted by what happened.

They're working on the time bonuses for the skippers, its an international jury who has to take the decisions, and it will be probably the french Navy who will take Escoffier around the Kerguelens toward the 6/7 december, but they dont know anything yet.

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1 hour ago, Chasm said:

Seems really unlikely that Sam can continue.
The keel system including box is basically ok, but: "The longitudinal structure around the keelbox is all cracked."

Maybe someone can translate what she said in the video:

 

I tried the English auto-translate, but once again, pretty shitty. So here it is; but the pictures speak for themselves, really...

"The boat is stable, sailing very slowly under storm jib with following seas and winds. There is some damage, on top of my ribs... There are cracks in the boat in several places and I am checking everywhere; the shore team is discussing with the architects to make sure that the boat is still safe if I sail slowy and how I can secure everything before I get to a shelter.

Let me show you the damages.

I am in the keel box; there is little bit of water because the hole for the ram got cracked. It was no longer water tight. I fixed it, and there is just a little bit of water coming in...

1:30  The cracks you can see here... and you can see that that whole tab is no longer glued to the bulkhead.

1:38  You can see that the bulkhead on the keel box is entirely cracked in diagonal

1:48  on the other side, it has completely folded on the whole length. From up here, diagonally all the way to the bottom.

The keel is stable, still in the bearings. No weird noises, but I monitor it.

2:10  and here in the living quarters, there is just one small spot with a crack; the shock has come through the outrigger bulkhead, but there are no other cracks in the living quarters.

 

All of that is not great. Thankfully, I have a wonderful team on shore who is trying to re-assure me so I can bring the boat to shelter before we can do anything else.

Thank you very much also for people who sent me so many encouraging messages, I need them... Thank you!"

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Another article about boat structures: https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/course-au-large/vendee-globe/vendee-globe-comment-expliquer-que-prb-se-soit-casse-en-deux-3e97fda6-3545-11eb-81a6-8b526d3bb254?fbclid=IwAR25_SebXGEaRPshf1Y1huHSvWCoeaUmVlHckOqgVRR0QGRabDx5TW0BTIQ

I won't bother translating the whole thing, but the following reminds me of something someone said here:

Quote

Il est tentant de demander à Laurent Cordelle ce qu’il pense aussi des avaries structurelles de Hugo Boss. Lui dit tout haut ce que beaucoup pensent tout bas : « Lors de la dépression tropicale Thêta, toute la flotte a évité de s’approcher du centre, sauf un, Alex Thomson… et c’est le premier qui a cassé (Jean Le Cam lui aussi a rasé le centre mais sur un bateau à dérive et fiabilisé ; ndlr). Cherchez l’erreur ! La plupart des concurrents du Vendée Globe ont réagi en très bons marins en n’allant pas au feu dans Thêta. Cela me rappelle le camarade Loïck Peyron lors du Trophée Jules Verne sur Banque Populaire. Alors qu’ils étaient sur le retour en Atlantique Sud, et remontaient, il a engueulé ses équipiers comme du poisson pourri car ils avaient fait une pointe à 42 nœuds, alors que la consigne était de ne pas dépasser 37 nœuds ou quelque chose comme ça ! »

It is tempting to ask Laurent Cordelle (naval architect, used to work at Finot-Conq) his opinion about Hugo Boss structural problems. He says out loud what many think in secret : "During the Theta tropical storm, the whole fleet avoided the center of the low pressure, apart from Alex Thomson... and he was the first one to have structural issues (note from the journalist : Jean Le Cam also when near the center, but with a proven non-foiler). Consequence ?! Most skippers chose to preserve their boats by avoiding the worst of the Theta storm. It reminds me of Loick Peyron during a Jules Verne Trophy attempt on Banque Populaire. They were on the way back in the South Atlantic, he had a proper go at his crew because they pushed the boat to 42 knots and the limit he set was 37 or something like this"

FAST BUT NOT FURIOUS

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I think we're going to see significant consolidation of three sub-fleets in the next day or two.

Up front, notice that the current weather system at this time is wrapping cleanly around the ice limit.  So...  anyone wanting to sail toward Kerguelen, which is currently presumed to be everyone's plan, will have to do a bunch of gybing en route.  Unless they're at the back of the lead pack.  At the back, the breeze is more from the SW, so they can carry on in a straight line on a starboard broad reach while the leaders are VMG running and gybing.  To some extent, this persists after they get around the corner of the ice limit.  Looking at the forecast 12 hours from now, the leaders will have to run very deep to get down to Kerguelen on starboard, and might even need to gybe a couple times if they can't soak it down enough to stay off the limit.  But, 24 hours from now, when the back of the lead pack has turned the corner, the breeze will be more from the SE to ESE, giving them a nice hot reach on starboard still.  So...  all the way to Kerguelen, the front of the pack will be cursed with VMG short-gybing while the back of the lead pack is enjoying fast reaching conditions.

That will play out nicely for those who will get redress from PRB rescue.  It reminds me of Tour de France coverage when a breakaway has a guy who isn't far out of yellow, who becomes the "virtual yellow" on the course for as long as he stays in front by more than his current deficit.  Very good chance we'll see some of the redress boats on the "virtual podium" while their deficit on the water is less than their redress, if I'm right about the fleet compression.  Of course, there's a long way to go, and JLC still needs to drop off KE.

It'll be interesting to see if Cremer and Attanasio can hang onto the back of the system to partake in that fleet compression, or if they'll fall into no-man's land between fleets.  Once the three heading to CT are out of the mix, that lead group will be 11-13 boats, depending on whether or not they can stay with it.

Second sub-fleet to compress is Le Diraison through Pip.  Seven boats, which will be in positions 14-20 once past CT.  The current forecast has them all running into a park-up SSE of CT.

Third sub-fleet with their own park-up to compress them imminent in the middle of the South Atlantic is Amedeo through Beyou.  Amedeo might have a chance to make the transition to the second sub-fleet, but I'm doubtful.  Once past CT, these boats would be in positions 21-28, unless one of the boats going to CT is able to rejoin before they arrive.

Unless I'm missing something, we'll see those groups pretty close to each other, with widening gaps in between, in the next couple days.

 

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I know there is an ice exclusion zone, but that is an estimate based on a best guess by people half a world away. Is it possible that any of these boats hit a hunk of ice that did not get the memo about where it was supposed to be?

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Not sure why the anxiety associated with foils and UFO's.   So far there is a single boat that has foil damage that was confirmed due to a UFO (Arkea Paprec).  Thomas' foil was just as likely a structural issue.  PRB is simply bad fiction if someone thinks that was caused by a UFO. Every other foiling boat that has sustained damage due to a UFO, has either hit their Keel or a rudder.  Last time I checked there are 3 daggerboard boats in the top 10, they have keels and rudders and their average speeds are within a few knots of the foilers.  If their luck runs out and they hit a UFO in the same location, they will have the same race ending results.

 

As for the number of boats, suddenly having issues in the last week.  I don't recall a Vendee where the lead 15 boats were this close at the Cape of Good Hope. So it does make sense that the problems would be concentrated over a short period of time, not stretched out over 5000 miles of ocean and 15+ days.

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12 hours ago, littlechay said:

There is a lot less garbage in those latitudes than in the parts of the oceans surrounded by the more populus landmasses in the the north. Currents, basically, don't cross the equator so most of the trash stays north. It is still about of course but it is usually broken fishing gear (Hugo Boss) plastic bags, and polystyrene that I see though. 

Good point and yet they are hitting shit left and right so it appears worse than thought.......   
I'm off sailing and boozing........enjoy the weekend see you all Monday

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It’s interesting that Kevin has no idea that the world was losing sleep while he took a nap. Smart man. Too bad there wasn’t a way to ping him. Lotsa room for improvement in making our rescue/locator/comms systems smarter. “Internet of Things” on the ocean. 
 

A pre-arranged communications plan SOP would help too:  eg. Conserve your batteries by focusing comm efforts for 10 minutes every 2 hours.  Kevin could have held his beacon outside the cover on a periodic basis in this case if he’d known people were risking/spending resources looking for him. Handshakes and periodic confirmation are fundamental to any effective communication. 

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18 minutes ago, Laurent said:

I tried the English auto-translate, but once again, pretty shitty. So here it is; but the pictures speak for themselves, really...

"The boat is stable, sailing very slowly under storm jib with following seas and winds. There is some damage, on top of my ribs... There are cracks in the boat in several places and I am checking everywhere; the shore team is discussing with the architects to make sure that the boat is still safe if I sail slowy and how I can secure everything before I get to a shelter.

Let me show you the damages.

I am in the keel box; there is little bit of water because the hole for the ram got cracked. It was no longer water tight. I fixed it, and there is just a little bit of water coming in...

1:30  The cracks you can see here... and you can see that that whole tab is no longer glued to the bulkhead.

1:38  You can see that the bulkhead on the keel box is entirely cracked in diagonal

1:48  on the other side, it has completely folded on the whole length. From up here, diagonally all the way to the bottom.

The keel is stable, still in the bearings. No weird noises, but I monitor it.

2:10  and here in the living quarters, there is just one small spot with a crack; the shock has come through the outrigger bulkhead, but there are no other cracks in the living quarters.

 

All of that is not great. Thankfully, I have a wonderful team on shore who is trying to re-assure me so I can bring the boat to shelter before we can do anything else.

Thank you very much also for people who sent me so many encouraging messages, I need them... Thank you!"

Always appreciate the Laurent translate.  Thanks!

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1 minute ago, Kenny Dumas said:

It’s interesting that Kevin has no idea that the world was losing sleep while he took a nap. Smart man. Too bad there wasn’t a way to ping him. Lotsa room for improvement in making our rescue/locator/comms systems smarter. “Internet of Things” on the ocean. 
 

A pre-arranged communications plan SOP would help too:  eg. Conserve your batteries by focusing comm efforts for 10 minutes every 2 hours.  Kevin could have held his beacon outside the cover on a periodic basis in this case if he’d known people were risking/spending resources looking for him. Handshakes and periodic confirmation are fundamental to any effective communication. 

I wouldn't trust my fridge to be connected the the Internet of Things. Nevermind basing my rescue on it.  

But I agree with having more effective methods of two way communications. It's the reason on my boat I had a grab bag within a meter of the life raft.  Within a waterproof box in that grab bag was a sat phone and VHF w/DSC, plus a USB pack to charge either.  They were plugged in and charging and kept waterproof for any crossing.   I figured if shit hits the fan, I won't have time to run around and gather up various devices off of chargers. If I do have time, then it probably isn't an emergency and should reconsider getting in to the liferaft.

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11 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I know there is an ice exclusion zone, but that is an estimate based on a best guess by people half a world away. Is it possible that any of these boats hit a hunk of ice that did not get the memo about where it was supposed to be?

The ice is monitored via satellites and agencies other then the Vendee.  The Vendee race management team takes info supplied by others, whose job is to track the ice and distill it down into the Ice Exclusion Zone. 

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Some explanaitions from Sébastien Simon why he has water ingress not only in the foil wells area, but also round the rudders; apparently some damage there as well, which might be collateral damage to the UFO on the foils...

From the English version of the official website:

"On top of this I have damage the bulkhead behind the cockpit. I am not sure if this is due to impact, if it is collateral damage or not.  I noticed this when I went ot get some water out. I know this bulkhead was not damaged yesterday and today it is. 

To top things off, as if one problem was not enough the tiller connecting harm has been ripped off and every two hours I have to go and spend 40 minutes pumping the water out from under the cockpit, which is not nice place to be in."
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1 minute ago, tDot said:

The ice is monitored via satellites and agencies other then the Vendee.  The Vendee race management team takes info supplied by others, whose job is to track the ice and distill it down into the Ice Exclusion Zone. 

I understand where the IEZ comes from but I suspect it is not a 100% accurate thing. The zone may show where 99% of the ice is but there is the 1%.

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Checking in on the last sched I noticed that MACSF had dropped off the pace (from 18 to 12).  I also noticed that Boris dropped speed as well compared with the other boats around.

 

Could it be sail change and the tracker update caught them with their pants down?  going back in time Isabelle had been maintaining a pretty steady rate as well Boris so hopefully a glitch or pinged at the wrong time.  Both have been doing fantastic With Isabelle really hauling it in in the last couple of days.

 

Just get a little nervous when you see that change of course and speed drop.  Man I wish they'd give sooner updates...Guess we'll see in the next report.

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1 minute ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I understand where the IEZ comes from but I suspect it is not a 100% accurate thing. The zone may show where 99% of the ice is but there is the 1%.

Gotcha.  

My recollection from last Vendee is that they were given a limit and then Race Management added a buffer of some sort, to compensate for that variable.  It would be interestin to know how much ice is North of the zone.    Hopefully all the videos from Oscar will set our curious minds at ease.

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And to finish with bidegorry podcast, they're concerned by the randoms and sometimes incoherent positions given by EPIRB, and they were really amazed by the drifting model used by Météo France who occured to be very accurate.

Rough sea is going to expect the sailors at the top of the race.

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17 minutes ago, tDot said:

I wouldn't trust my fridge to be connected the the Internet of Things. Nevermind basing my rescue on it.  

But I agree with having more effective methods of two way communications. It's the reason on my boat I had a grab bag within a meter of the life raft.  Within a waterproof box in that grab bag was a sat phone and VHF w/DSC, plus a USB pack to charge either.  They were plugged in and charging and kept waterproof for any crossing.   I figured if shit hits the fan, I won't have time to run around and gather up various devices off of chargers. If I do have time, then it probably isn't an emergency and should reconsider getting in to the liferaft.

Escoffier had no way to communicate with anybody during all the rescue, he just lighted his liferaft when he saw JLC coming back, which allowed JLC to see him

Grab bag with all the means to communicate was sealed by plomb or by a too complex tie and had not enough time to take it, that s what Bidegorry said

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2 hours ago, tallyho said:

this popped upon my you tube feed, not on the official site AFAIK. Sam is speaking French, but the damage is obvious. Game Over methinks.

 

You can switch on English  subtitles 

 

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3 minutes ago, vesa said:

You can switch on English  subtitles 

 

Thanks to Laurent for all his translations, but this is one video where the English auto-translate actually works, perhaps because Sam uses a more "formal" form of French, it being her second language, compared to the French speakers who use lots of slang that ends up garbled at best and hilarious at worst in the auto-translate.

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All this talk of UFOs is just that, they are unidentified, they could be man made, they could be sea creatures. We just don't know and unless someone with greater knowledge than us can examine the damage to ascertain what has done the damage we are all in the dark so as to speak.

As to whether the the use of side foils is making things worse in races like the VG, once again we don't really know just yet as the race continues. As far as I can see of the boats that have retired or were forced back to restart, only one, Arkea Paprec has been because of side foil damage. That excludes Linkedout who is continuing on with a shortened side foil.

Lets just wait until the race concludes before we point the finger at side foils being a problem in long ocean races.

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Just to add to those criticizing the foilers. Just one breakage so far can clearly be attributed to a failed foil (Ruyant's). All others are collisions or other failures. Personally I think the foiling is great.

 

RS beat me to it

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14 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I understand where the IEZ comes from but I suspect it is not a 100% accurate thing. The zone may show where 99% of the ice is but there is the 1%.

well, my guess, since they cannot just track every single bit of ice, is that they just run some models, and take a probabilistic approach.

So something like IEZ = "areas where the number of ice cubes with significant dimension bigger than x per sq km is more than 0.0something"+ some smoothing.

At least, this is i would approach the problem personally.

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2 minutes ago, cortosam said:

Escoffier had no way to communicate with anybody during all the rescue, he just lighted his liferaft when he saw JLC coming back, which allowed JLC to see him

Grab bag with all the means to communicate was sealed by plomb or by a too complex tie and had not enough time to take it, that s what Bidegorry said

Exactly,  he didn't have time to get to it.   Which is why I keep all my important life saving bits within a meter of the raft, fully charged automatically,  so I don't have to think about it.  If I can get to the liferaft, I can get to my grab bag.

Though to be fair the last time I set up our boat for a crossing I had to include a supply of momma's milk for our 9month old.  That lived in the freezer and I'm pretty sure my wife would have murdered me if we got on a life raft and I didn't bring the extra milk.  

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47 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

I think we're going to see significant consolidation of three sub-fleets in the next day or two.

Up front, notice that the current weather system at this time is wrapping cleanly around the ice limit.  

[snip]

  So...  all the way to Kerguelen, the front of the pack will be cursed with VMG short-gybing while the back of the lead pack is enjoying fast reaching conditions.

[snip]

Second sub-fleet to compress is Le Diraison through Pip.  Seven boats, which will be in positions 14-20 once past CT.  The current forecast has them all running into a park-up SSE of CT.

[snip]

I'm not so sure about the leaders - I make it a day's sailing for Dalin to get 'round the corner' of the exclusion zone, and in 24 hrs the low will have moved east enough for him to broad reach on starboard.

I've been watching Pip's sub-fleet.  Bummed to see Pip lost a lot to Didac over the past few skeds.  Looks like she threw in a couple of gybes that didn't work out for her.

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43 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said:

Vendée Globe. How to explain that PRB broke in two?

This is the question that many people have been asking themselves since the terrible sinking of PRB when he was third in the Vendée Globe, a day from the Cape of Good Hope. Attempts at answers.

How a racing boat designed for the round the world, designed by the duo who designed the last two winning boats of the Vendée Globe, built by one of the most famous shipyards, led by a marine engineer specializing in construction and structures, could it break like a porcelain toy after surfing and charging? No one has the answer to this day, few people rush to the gate to express themselves, and the boat has sunk carrying its secrets.
 

Small reminder of the genesis of PRB . It was designed by architects Verdier VPLP, built at CDK Technologies ten years ago for the Vendée Globe 2012-2013 with Vincent Riou, and in the molds of Safran . On November 25, 2012, Vincent Riou, the winner of the Vendée Globe 2004-2005, then in the leading group, struck a metal buoy drifting off Brazil, and had to retire. Four years later almost to the day, and still in the Vendée Globe, another twist of fate for Vincent Riou, who collided with a UFO.A plastic ball joint at the keel is involved. No question of continuing in the southern seas like this. Vincent Riou heads to Cape Town and gives up. Riou not only has the greatest experience in 60ft Imoca, but has also built boats. In order to keep it up to date, it multiplies the optimization projects, works on the rudders, installs foils designed by Juan Kouyoumdjian in 2018, which “boosts” the boat accordingly. He “hands” the boat and the “handlebars” to Kevin Escoffier, a sought-after teammate, brilliant engineer, long responsible for the Design Office of Team Banque Populaire, and who after a Jules Verne Trophy won with Loïck Peyron, then two Volvo Ocean Races (3 ein 2015 and winner in 2018) with Charles Caudrelier, endorses the skipper cap of PRB .

We know that lightness is the main cause of the problems that PRB may have encountered in the past.

The latter is regularly cited as a serious outsider, shone in the races before the Vendée Globe, is very comfortable in light winds. It is not uninteresting to reread after what happened on November 30 when his boat suddenly broke in two without warning, what Kevin Escoffier said a few months ago: “ We know that lightness is essential. the main cause of the problems that PRB may have encountered in the past. This is why we have worked with the aim of erasing its youthful problems, by strengthening the bottom of the hull, the keel axis and the deck. Like PRBwas one of the lightest boats in the fleet, we agreed to take a little of this mass delta to put it in various reinforcements in order to make it as reliable as possible, and also to better support the work of the foils. “Asked aboard Yes We Cam , Kevin Escoffier just after his rescue confirmed having added 200 kg of carbon and resin, saying he was sure he had done the right thing. He could not explain such a scenario. His colossal experience in boat structure pleads for him, and the latter assumes all the more his choices, as he took on during the preparation of the Vendée Globe the role of boss of the Design Office, and is not not one to discard. And yet!

E = MC2! Clearly, the efforts grow like the square of the speed ...

We asked Laurent Cordelle, naval architect (he was at the origin of the Finot Group), maritime expert, sailor for more than fifty years, and who has raced on almost all boats and on all the seas of the world, from the America's Cup to the Whitbread, to give us his feeling. The former winner of the Solitaire du Figaro is absolutely not surprised by what happened to PRB , and sheds light on it. "Since the beginning of mankind, we have witnessed progress of all kinds, particularly technical ones, which allows performance to be improved. But there are a number of elements that remain on our good old planet Earth and Sea, which are the natural elements. No offense to the ecologists, and despite global warming, these natural elements have changed very little. Waves are always waves, avalanches are always avalanches… We have had storms all along, and which have sent a certain number of ships to the bottom. "

And to add: " If we go back to times not so old, the offshore racing boats when there was 40 knots of wind, took to the cape. It is out of the question to return to practices such as this, but it must be recognized that if certain sails are happily worn by force 8 without any problem, there has been a huge step in recent years which has been done in increasing the speed of sailboats. As a reminder, the efforts grow like the square of the speed ... and therefore it goes very quickly in the literal and figurative sense of the term. Going from 20 to 30 knots or even more on the 60-foot Imoca, I did not do the calculation, but the increase in these constraints is considerable. The stresses that can be calculated are relatively thin, since they are only stresses excluding the dynamic effect of the waves. Of course, a whole bunch of design offices and architects will say that they have modeled the impact on waves etc. etc., which is not wrong, but the fact remains that we do not know the direction and the force of the impacts that we can have against waves when the sea is not completely flat. And these constraints are further heightened in the area of ignorance in which we are. The asymptote becomes unidentifiable. We arrive at boats that go very, very quickly, but which are subject to very, very strong constraints, and with consequences that we know little about. but the fact remains that we do not know the direction and the force of the impacts that we can have against waves when the sea is not all flat. And these constraints are further heightened in the area of ignorance in which we are. The asymptote becomes unidentifiable. We arrive at boats that go very, very quickly, but which are subject to very, very strong constraints, and with consequences that we know little about. but the fact remains that we do not know the direction and the force of the impacts that we can have against waves when the sea is not all flat. And these constraints are further heightened in the area of ignorance in which we are. The asymptote becomes unidentifiable. We arrive at boats that go very, very quickly, but which are subject to very, very strong constraints, and with consequences that we know little about. "

 

Laurent Cordelle is therefore not at all surprised to see a certain number of damage during the Vendée Globe.  I recall that four years ago already, on the basis of photos that I studied, the 60-foot Imoca Le Souffle du Nord for the Imagine project by Thomas Rettant, experienced (off New Zealand, editor's note) a Hercynian folding (used in geology) which for me is exactly to my knowledge a scenario quite similar to PRB. While it has been said almost everywhere that Thomas Rettant struck a container or a wooden log, there was no trace of impact on the live works, but a Hercynian folding (deformation by compression, note) on the perfectly symmetrical deck, about forty centimeters in front of the mast and from one sheer to another. The bridge was bent. In other words, the boat was in a situation very close to that of PRB . And as the latter (PRB) was perhaps more rigid and efficient, he held held, did not have a Hercynian kink, and broke in two. "

I'm especially surprised by how quickly it happened

  Damien Guillou, PRB boat captain, was part of the watch team when Kevin told them by message that he was sinking. | PRB

For Damien Guillou, PRB boat captain , the question still remains open: “ I am especially surprised by the speed at which it happened. For having experienced the same situation with Bernard Stamm on Cheminées Poujoulat in 2013 (the Imoca broke in two 180 miles off Brest), the boat split in two, but it didn't go that fast despite everything. We had had time to prepare the story and stay on board, there was still some buoyancy. There, what seems impressive is that for Kevin it was very fast. He barely had time to make two messages. It makes you wonder where it broke. I think the break broke the life cell a bit. In front of the mast bulkhead, we have watertight doors that slow down the entry of water into the living area and maintain buoyancy. But he might not even have had time to shut them down. " The boat captain had overseen the strengthening of this winter structure. "The boat in fact had the bottom of the hull reinforced. We went to sandwich mousse. We had spent the entire bottom of the hull in foam because it is a foiler and the bottom of the hull takes on more impact. We rather worked on the central part because it is this part which takes the shocks normally when the boat is in semi-flight. »Understand that the pressures exerted on the foilers are generally exerted in the central parts. It is therefore surprising that the bow could have bent as Kevin tells. But difficult to investigate a boat lying at the bottom of the South Seas ...

You must never forget that a round the world is not a Formula 1 circuit ...

It is tempting to ask Laurent Cordelle what he also thinks of the structural damage of Hugo Boss . Said aloud to him what many are thinking quietly: “ During the tropical depression Theta, the whole fleet avoided approaching the center, except one, Alex Thomson… and it was the first who broke (Jean Le Cam he also razed the center but on a drift boat and made reliable; editor's note). Find the mistake ! Most of the Vendée Globe competitors reacted like very good sailors by not going to the fire in Theta. It reminds me of comrade Loïck Peyron during the Jules Verne Trophy on Banque Populaire. While they were on the return to the South Atlantic, and coming back up, he shouted at his teammates like rotten fish because they had peaked at 42 knots, while the instruction was not to exceed 37 knots or something like that. ! "

And Cordelle concluded: “ We must never forget that a round-the-world circuit is not a Formula 1 circuit… nor a regatta in F 18 or on America's Cup boats. We sometimes tend to trivialize things and forget it… and it's very French to always want to do more… 

 

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Setting the ice boundary is ongoing, and not cheap or casual.

Quote

To help keep the Vendée Globe sailors safe, CLS—a subsidiary of the French CNES space agency and CNP—uses information from satellites carrying radar such as Copernicus Sentinel-1 and satellites carrying altimeters such as Copernicus Sentinel-3 to detect icebergs.

Spaceborne radar returns images of Earth's land and sea surface through cloud and rain, and regardless of whether it is day or night—so ideal for monitoring the position of icebergs.

Satellite altimeters measure differences in the height of the sea surface, therefore also the height of any floating ice. Altimeters have been used to study Arctic and Antarctic ice and experts are able to recognize the signature of an iceberg in altimetry data. CLS is actually using data from four altimetry satellites for the Vendée Globe: the European–US Jason-3 mission, the French–Indian Saral/Altika mission and the two Copernicus Sentinel-3 satellites.

With the benefit of complementary radar and altimetry data, CLS has already established an Antarctic ice exclusion zone, in close collaboration with the race management team to keep the Vendée Globe sailors out of the way of dangerous bergs. During the race the team can update this exclusion zone if necessary.

While Copernicus Sentinel-1 provides timely images to map sea ice and icebergs for safe passage as a matter of routine in the Arctic, it has been tasked especially to map critical areas of the Southern Ocean around Antarctica for the Vendée Globe.

Sentinel-1 is providing maps detecting icebergs in the relevant areas a few days before the sailors pass through so that the race organizers have an up-to-date general picture of the situation around Antarctica.

Simon Jutz, head of ESA's Copernicus Space Office, said, "We are happy to task Copernicus Sentinel-1 on behalf of the European Union and support CLS to keep the Vendée Globe sailors safe on their grueling voyage—and we of course wish each and every one of them good luck!"

https://phys.org/news/2020-12-copernicus-satellites-eyes-icebergs-vende.html?deviceType=desktop

Forgot to add: the limits below Australia are set to the Aussie SAR's requirements (IIRC from last edition)

Edited by stief
Aussie SAR cred
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1 hour ago, OPAL said:

 

I love these videos of the boats hooning along. The closest I have come is kitesurfing in large swells off Cape Hatteras doing similar speeds and it is impressive how much faster the swells are traveling, not to mention how much faster I get going on the face of such a swell, it is downright scary. If I understand the display correctly he is doing 25 knots. In the span of a 1 minute video he surfs three waves, so the waves are traveling at around 40 knots??

 

I asked Siri and she says:

From Surfline - The speed of travel of the deep water swell group will be 1.5 times the swell period; ie: a 20 second swell will be traveling at 30 Nautical mph. The actual individual waves will be traveling at three times the swell period, so a 20 second swell will have waves moving at up to 60 Nautical mph

From Scripps - While they are in deep water, far offshore, the slowest wave components with the shortest period and the smallest distance between crests could be traveling at less than 5 miles per hour. The components with the longest periods could be moving at more than 35 miles per hour.Jun 28, 2011

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I think it is important to note that Kevin oversaw all of the structural changes, and had all of the available data on PRB while doing so (initial laminate schedules, repairs, reinforcements etc.). Yes, parts of the design were outsourced but structurally the changed were managed by one person, the skipper of the boat who is a well respected engineer and in charge of a pretty sizeable offshore design office. Hard to say that anything was done wrong, though it is hard to know how fatigued the structure was prior to the modifications, but I'm also sure they considered that upfront.

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21 minutes ago, Corryvreckan said:

 

I've been watching Pip's sub-fleet.  Bummed to see Pip lost a lot to Didac over the past few skeds.  Looks like she threw in a couple of gybes that didn't work out for her.

Not enough speed.   Fell off the train.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CIWRWC6juKB/?igshid=1t8gq7vqn1q42

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50 minutes ago, Laurent said:

Some explanaitions from Sébastien Simon why he has water ingress not only in the foil wells area, but also round the rudders; apparently some damage there as well, which might be collateral damage to the UFO on the foils...

From the English version of the official website:

"On top of this I have damage the bulkhead behind the cockpit. I am not sure if this is due to impact, if it is collateral damage or not.  I noticed this when I went ot get some water out. I know this bulkhead was not damaged yesterday and today it is. 

To top things off, as if one problem was not enough the tiller connecting harm has been ripped off and every two hours I have to go and spend 40 minutes pumping the water out from under the cockpit, which is not nice place to be in."

That explains the video from yesterday. Sorry to say, but I think his race is over. Same for Sam.

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57 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Thanks to Laurent for all his translations, but this is one video where the English auto-translate actually works, perhaps because Sam uses a more "formal" form of French, it being her second language, compared to the French speakers who use lots of slang that ends up garbled at best and hilarious at worst in the auto-translate.

This video was manually translated.

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5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

"Print?  Nah," 

Well maybe you shouldn't have said this or maybe stop drinking. 

"Hereabouts we consider web as ‘media’  and I frankly don’t know anyone who shells out $2/day for  print." .

"Sailing news?  USA ? "  

The problem is NOT US media any medium. Problem is only a handfull of US solo non stop circumnavigators. Only 3 in history of VG.

Yet at that time Mike Plant went in first VG in 89 he was one of only a handful of 3 times around alone non stop circumnavigators. The rest mostly French.

NO competitors ..NO news.

I shell out money for "print media." I subscribe to the NYT, WaPost, and WSJ, digitally, I get them daily. Agree, not much sailing coverage, except when stuff happens like  Kevin's rescue,  the AC,  VOR, but that's not why I subscribe to them. For sailing stuff I get sailing specific publications.  

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On 12/2/2020 at 7:03 AM, Herman said:

Weather update

How models can be wrong on a local/boat scale shows pics 1 and 2, with the projected wind direction and speed, compared to a ship actual. ECMWF and GFS both have it at 21-22 kts, actual is 36 kts. Wind direction is OK.

Pics 3 and 4 give the EUMETSAT and ECMWF wind continental overview.

So Dalin and Ruyant have dropped-off the LP 1. And have a couple of hours before the next LP 2 comes in. The fleet behind them already enjoy riding LP 2, except for JLC/Escoffier and Herrmann, who seem to far north to get more pressure/wind atm. Burton looks very well positioned for riding that LP 2.

Further behind, Tripon and others to his north are enjoying LP 3. At the end of the fleet are light winds, between the SACZ (orange line) and the expanding St Helena HP (HP 1) which is restoring to it's full glory. Blocking a quick route below South Africa around Wednesday. 

Sea state for the top-3 boats is currently 4,2 up to 4,6 meters. 

Routing to the Ilses Kerguelen is still a good virtual waypoint, except for Ruyant, see pic 5. I routed to another virtual waypoint just beyond the second cape, Cape Leeuwin, at Virtual WP 44° 50' S 120° E. This is 70 nm above the AEZ v2. All boats pass The Keguelen Islands, except for Ruyant who is projected to go far to the north and than going due south. The climate plugin did not seem to provide valid data either. 

The routing table is in pic 6. Which shows a compression of the fleet behind Dalin with the ETA's at the 12th, minimum a day later in ETA than Dalin. Ruyant is projected latest of that group, without adjusted polars for missing foil. Port/starboard track projected for him is 23/77%, so actual ETA will be even later than projected now. The western part of the pack has better wind angles projected. Only Cremer and Attanasio are f*cked by the St Helena HP,  4 days later in ETA than Dalin. And beating a lot. Could be five tacks for Cremer.

Dalin is expected to have a bad sea state again when nearing The Kerguelen Islands at Friday, see pic 7. This could slow him down considerately, or drive him further north than now projected. The other boats do get a slightly better projected sea state. 

I wondered why Burton was not projected earlier than the rest of the pack, but he should be beating 7% of the trip. Bad polar wind angle. Other boats like Davies enjoy more reaching conditions, and an other routing enabling getting before other boats like Le Cam/Escoffier. See pic 8 for projected tracks for Davies versus Burton. In which the lateral separation is quickly declining at Friday as Burton is forced further to the NE. If the GFS holds up. We'll see.

Pic 9 and 10 are the routings for Dalin and JLC.

 

2051474870_ECWMF021220.thumb.jpg.5916885140ffe7cec16dddfb851cdde8.jpg325492261_GFS021220.thumb.jpg.25b2744c5ccb02e97530ee7eced9e643.jpg

EUMETSAT 021220.jpg

ECMWF 021220 compressed.jpg

Weather routing virtual WP 021220.jpg

Weather routing table 021220 Kerguelen.png

Sea state Dalin Friday afternoon near Kerguelen.png

Burton versus Davies 021220.jpg

Dalin 021220.png

JLC 021220.png

 

Is it possible to use the polars to simulate a transpac race?  Not sure how to get historical weather for the race date, but it would be interesting to know what a modern IMOCA potential would be for the down wind slide. There was a video on Comanche’s transatlantic record run where Stan Honey talked about routing weather for years of historical data. Pretty cool. 
 

 

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24 minutes ago, despacio avenue said:
5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

"Print?  Nah," 

Well maybe you shouldn't have said this or maybe stop drinking. 

"Hereabouts we consider web as ‘media’  and I frankly don’t know anyone who shells out $2/day for  print." .

"Sailing news?  USA ? "  

The problem is NOT US media any medium. Problem is only a handfull of US solo non stop circumnavigators. Only 3 in history of VG.

Yet at that time Mike Plant went in first VG in 89 he was one of only a handful of 3 times around alone non stop circumnavigators. The rest mostly French.

NO competitors ..NO news.

I shell out money for "print media." I subscribe to the NYT, WaPost, and WSJ, digitally, I get them daily. Agree, not much sailing coverage, except when stuff happens like  Kevin's rescue,  the AC,  VOR, but that's not why I subscribe to them. For sailing stuff I get sailing specific publications.  

You are a sailing sponsors wet dream, but they won't bite and and sponsor a US VG entry. 

It will stay this way as mainstream sponsors aren't interested in sailing specific only publications with such small metrics.

The US needs to break the cycle and find another Mike Plant. Then just US print media with 250 million unique online views per month will start writing about his achievements.

With that coverage mainstream sponsors will then see ROI on solo non stop racing circumnavigators.

Hey presto US VG entries start rising from the paltry three (3) to date. 

Mike Plant - Duracell First VG in 1989.

TSimmons2.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Virgulino Ferreira said:

 

The spirit of Moitessier still lives.

here is a wonderful spirit who speaks not just her truth, but from what I sense the truth of what doing this is about.  The shrinking and expanding of perception, of the world based mainly on the condition around one's self.  In a way I envy her, I wish I could trade, for even a moment where she stands for it truly is ...

She will finish back in the pack, but her way of telling this story, beautiful, but as to her spirit...first place in my book and this is a position that can be shared.

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The only way for a VG entry from the US to make a long term diff is if there’s an old billionaire with actual hobbies instead of the current ones with no interest who throw out charity to get rid of tax liabilities. 

11th Hour Racing could have totally done a VG campaign - throw the boat to Phil Sharp who would have done it for nothing instead of doing their current social media look at us we sailed across the Atlantic again “racing in the ocean race” 

Maybe the forum can go on their videos and all comment “should have sponsored a Vendee Globe 2020” to send them a message. Because the Ivy League boys certainly don’t have the VG ambitions. 

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Just now, Snowden said:

It amazes me given the size of the US and the degree of individual wealth accumulation that there haven't been more privateers funding their own campaigns (as we see in Class 40s)

How many rich privateers do you see with no sponsors from any nation in RTW solo and crewed? 

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I agree, Jack. Companies like Amazon, Microsoft, don't need the advertising. AirBnB about to go public, with a surprisingly high valuation given its volatility and drop in revenue to to the Covid pandemic. The American AC entry is comprised of some billionaires. That race captured some attention when it was in Sf, less when in the Caribbean, mostly gets press when there is controversy. Sailing is not a big deal in the US except in some coastal cities, and then IMO viewed as a rich white people's sport for the most part; including primarily preppy colleges and universities. 

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2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

How many rich privateers do you see with no sponsors from any nation in RTW solo and crewed? 

I guess Steve Fossett / Branson are the archetypes but you are right there aren't loads.

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1 hour ago, TheDragon said:

I love these videos of the boats hooning along. The closest I have come is kitesurfing in large swells off Cape Hatteras doing similar speeds and it is impressive how much faster the swells are traveling, not to mention how much faster I get going on the face of such a swell, it is downright scary. If I understand the display correctly he is doing 25 knots. In the span of a 1 minute video he surfs three waves, so the waves are traveling at around 40 knots??

 

I asked Siri and she says:

From Surfline - The speed of travel of the deep water swell group will be 1.5 times the swell period; ie: a 20 second swell will be traveling at 30 Nautical mph. The actual individual waves will be traveling at three times the swell period, so a 20 second swell will have waves moving at up to 60 Nautical mph

From Scripps - While they are in deep water, far offshore, the slowest wave components with the shortest period and the smallest distance between crests could be traveling at less than 5 miles per hour. The components with the longest periods could be moving at more than 35 miles per hour.Jun 28, 2011

Finally, for once, a very happy Kevin, speaking French slowly enough for me to almost understand what he said. 

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1 minute ago, Rafael said:

Something weird with Boris Hermann, maybe a bloop but his latest report in sched is not looking good 13Knts speed in 20Knts wind, pointing NE behind LeCam and his Exocet Cloud is not transmitting  for the last 3 hours... ??  BHbloop.thumb.jpg.0d12d2846866cb856bb9f4aac73b3def.jpg

Indeed...had seen that after the last sched so.....It looks like the time stamps are adjusted for local (thoose same graphs stop just before 1600 my time....Forgot he was doing a live feed....hmmmm...

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5 minutes ago, Snowden said:

I guess Steve Fossett / Branson are the archetypes but you are right there aren't loads.

Notice that Fossett and John Walton are both dead from having hobbies and the latter was involved in Corsair Marine. 
 

The Oracle billionaire used to race personally then realized he wanted to live longer and stopped. 

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1 minute ago, Miffy said:

The only way for a VG entry from the US to make a long term diff is if there’s an old billionaire with actual hobbies instead of the current ones with no interest who throw out charity to get rid of tax liabilities. 

5 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

How many rich privateers do you see with no sponsors from any nation in RTW solo and crewed? 

 

The old ones didn't do it either. 

The ones with the sailing hobby stuck with maxi only like George David and Jim Clark. 

Got to find to find another 'Lone Wolf' to break cycle of the US mainstream medias lack of interest in solo RTW.

Maybe that wolf is already arrived, he/she is even amoungst us ..posting here now from their mom's basement? :D

images - 2020-12-04T092137.153.jpeg

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Interesting you brought up 11th Hour Racing, MIffy. I was frankly surprised, after its misadventures and lack of success  in the last VOR, that it continued its sponsorship with some of the same on board personnel. With a "new"boat that, as you note, has mostly been sailing back and forth in the Atlantic, it was somewhat of a surprise there was no one entered in the VG, except 11th Hour keeps reiterating it is pointed to TOR.  I think its interests appear to be  crewed racing with broader social messaging, but that could have  been done with an entry in the VG.

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2 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Notice that Fossett and John Walton are both dead from having hobbies and the latter was involved in Corsair Marine. 
 

The Oracle billionaire used to race personally then realized he wanted to live longer and stopped. 

Sydney Hobart from memory was the last time offshore i think

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3 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Notice that Fossett and John Walton are both dead from having hobbies and the latter was involved in Corsair Marine. 
 

The Oracle billionaire used to race personally then realized he wanted to live longer and stopped. 

That guy is an asshole. 

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10 minutes ago, Snowden said:
14 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

How many rich privateers do you see with no sponsors from any nation in RTW solo and crewed? 

I guess Steve Fossett / Branson are the archetypes but you are right there aren't loads.

But those two have never raced solo RTW either.

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“Ocean health” “compost” “environmental protection” while we own a boat that’s perfectly fine and build another that isn’t needed to compete in an event no one else will because our sponsor isn’t sophisticated and has no purpose. 

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3 minutes ago, mad said:
5 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Notice that Fossett and John Walton are both dead from having hobbies and the latter was involved in Corsair Marine. 

The Oracle billionaire used to race personally then realized he wanted to live longer and stopped. 

Sydney Hobart from memory was the last time offshore i think

1998 scared the fuck out of him. 

He wasn't alone.

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2 minutes ago, despacio avenue said:

Interesting you brought up 11th Hour Racing, MIffy. I was frankly surprised, after its misadventures and lack of success  in the last VOR, that it continued its sponsorship with some of the same on board personnel. With a "new"boat that, as you note, has mostly been sailing back and forth in the Atlantic, it was somewhat of a surprise there was no one entered in the VG, except 11th Hour keeps reiterating it is pointed to TOR.  I think its interests appear to be  crewed racing with broader social messaging, but that could have  been done with an entry in the VG.

Would have needed a different skipper, he has no real interest in solo it seems. Can't say I blame, its not for everyone.

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3 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

1998 scared the fuck out of him. 

He wasn't alone.

Remember chatting to a couple of the guys when they got back....it wasn't a joyous year by any means.

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18 minutes ago, Virgulino Ferreira said:

The spirit of Moitessier still lives.

Don't know about that, but Pip continues to fascinate. "I feel like somebody's little sister who wants to be in the gang and is running after them." she say, about falling off the low.

I can't decide if she deliberately plays the naive little girl, since her vids also showed a real aggressive drive to get the strategy, stacking, sail changes and boat handling right. A VG sailor doesn't get this far being naive.

Sob.Feels disloyal to Sam's many campaigns, but Pip's project is getting the strategy right.

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8 minutes ago, mad said:

Would have needed a different skipper, he has no real interest in solo it seems. Can't say I blame, its not for everyone.

I don’t blame Charlie or Mark for not wanting to make that commitment. But I cannot get past the feeling they went to the communal soup, slurped it all up and then spat it into their own bowls to save later while other people with solo sailing exp and proven track records eager to give it a go sat at the docks.

And if ocean health was a real concern, build less crap use what you have, carry more buoys. Instead it is... Charlie building a new house and composting. Wtf?

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Windy gone wild! The regadata plug-in was my favorite tracker, but now its useless, at least in chrome on android...

20201203_152712.thumb.jpg.d6f26ae3c9c9b43f7a4ea7cd0db61075.jpg

With all the rankings and credit, you can no longer get to the map and see the trackings. Sure hope this gets fixed. You were the best, but now I need to find another. Gosh, that sounds like I am describing an old girlfriend,  sorry about that.

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13 minutes ago, despacio avenue said:

Interesting you brought up 11th Hour Racing, MIffy. I was frankly surprised, after its misadventures and lack of success  in the last VOR, that it continued its sponsorship with some of the same on board personnel. With a "new"boat that, as you note, has mostly been sailing back and forth in the Atlantic, it was somewhat of a surprise there was no one entered in the VG, except 11th Hour keeps reiterating it is pointed to TOR.  I think its interests appear to be  crewed racing with broader social messaging, but that could have  been done with an entry in the VG.

There was an 11th Hour interview recently amd apparently none of the guys on the team want to do single handed racing.   Even two people sounded like it wasn't enough of a team.

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30 minutes ago, Miffy said:

11th Hour Racing could have totally done a VG campaign - throw the boat to Phil Sharp who would have done it for nothing instead of doing their current social media look at us we sailed across the Atlantic again “racing in the ocean race” 

If you count Plants 1989 Duracell as alternative energy storage then he the first environmental sponsored RTW campaign.

Then all three US VG entries had an environmental basis. Bruce's 2004 Ocean Planet and Rich Wilson 2016 crowd funded to transmit that message to the classroom.

So ironicaly fossil fuel hungry US leads the world in environmental sponsorship of RTW sailing crewed and solo.

US mainstream sponsorship is zip.

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America isn’t perfect there’s plenty of institutional problems and it’s constantly having to fight off environmental rollback - but whether in vehicle emissions, coal emissions, transition to cleaner gas grid and attempts to make nuclear more acceptable- it does a better job than many. The electric grid consumption hasn’t increased much in a decade as efficiency got better and the grid for cleaner. Germany meanwhile is going backwards to burn more coal. 

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2 hours ago, tDot said:

It would be interesting to know how much ice is North of the zone

None at night....

Here's a current Cape Horn one. There is a region of "0/10 - 1/10 Open Water " in blue. That means there is small amounts of ice in this area. As you move north it diminishes. But where the boats are now - shouldn't be any ice at all.

antarctic_latest.png

 

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12 minutes ago, Varan said:

Windy gone wild! The regadata plug-in was my favorite tracker, but now its useless, at least in chrome on android...

With all the rankings and credit, you can no longer get to the map and see the trackings. Sure hope this gets fixed. You were the best, but now I need to find another. Gosh, that sounds like I am describing an old girlfriend,  sorry about that.

Kevin just tweeted about an updated plugin, and it works here (also allows multiple tracks to be projected) https://www.windy.com/plugins/windy-plugin-regadata

514387364_ScreenShot2020-12-03at5_45_45PM.thumb.png.bdd82f6b8aa4994c57b398d6d3f6111b.png

btw--his tweet shows a 3D globe, but haven't found if I can do that. You?

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5 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Not interested just like the Rhode Island, Brown University preppies of his ilk.

To be fair Jack, there's a lot very good offshore sailors that have no urge to go solo sailing.

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