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":A 2h18 heure française, le team PRB a été informé du sauvetage de Kevin Escoffier par Jean Le Cam. " Kevin has been rescued.  

Give it a rest chaps. HB was another attempt at evolution, and they should be applauded for spending a fuck ton of money to do so. If you want to try and be innovative you run the risk of breakages al

VG sailors at sea in the rough A translation: JLC: Damien can you receive me ? DS: Yes Jean I can (garbled)... I don't think you're receiving me that well but I receive you very well. JL

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10 minutes ago, Icedtea said:

IcedTea is a fucking excellent mixer with all kinds of things. 

 

Pubs are open, but only in a strict "no fun" form where you're time limited and you have to order a meal too. 

 

I'm actually London based and the pubs are "more open" there but still table service only etc. 

Pandemics are the enemy of pubs. 

Tier 3 for me, so nothing is open of any use....

Good point about the Iced tea as a base, though I'm not a fan of diluting things that much:P

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2 hours ago, tDot said:

Charal has lost almost 1000 miles to Charlie since his restart.  I'm a little surprised/disappointed that he hasnt been pushing more.  Everytime I check on him, his pace seems to be slower then expected, given the conditions he appears to be in. 

Hopefully he can catch this LP, but I think he's missed it.   

 

I have been watching Jérémie on the tracker, poor guy cannot find a break. The Doldrums were not kind, and he has been just a day late to make hay. I do not think it is for lack of trying or not pushing. He wants back in.

Hats off to him for his persistence and drive to keep at it. Many of lesser folks would have said fuck it by now.

He has nothing to prove, only the desire, combined with great ability. I never was a fan of him before, mostly because I never followed him, but I am now. 

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3 hours ago, stief said:

Should be some vid from Sam up soon. Here she says her team has recommended a safe max boat speed of 10kts, and cheerfully gives a bit more info about her rib damage. JLC still joking around too. This vid had the EN subtitles already enabled.

 

https://twitter.com/VendeeGlobeENG/status/1334948828655529984?s=20

These videos continue to be pretty remarkable,  informative, and entertaining. Used to seeing water pouring over the side and into the cockpit, here we have JLC and Isabelle with not a hair moving in the breeze; a stiff upper lip Sam Davies displaying her patched up ribs; and Kevin sitting out in the sunshine toasting the camera with a cop of Joe. The media coverage in the VG is good and timely, IMO. Not the VOR with an on board videographer, drones, etc. but between the selfie cams and the VG organization itself,  as well as SA, it has been quite good.  

Speaking of Iced Tea [sic[ and Lockdown, we are in fact in Lockdown here, and iced tea is my drink of choice. Have been doing takeout growlers from closed down brew pubs for neighbors as thank you's,; ski area up the road just opened with Covid restrictions (masks, social distancing in lift lines, etc.). So far it has worked. Snow is good, people behaving and cooperating. 

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Been watching for more coverage of Sam, but had missed this. Bookmarked

Quote

Some news from Sam Davies (Initiatives-Cœur).

Sam Davies this afternoon, "Last night I finally managed to really sleep since my accident. That is a good thing. The consequences are that I am slowly returning to a normal human being and with that comes a bit more pain: a whiplash neck, more muscle aches to add to the sore ribs! My boat is also in pain - that is easy to see - but she is looking after me and we are slowly but surely getting closer to shelter and safety. The sun came out too which helps to ease the aches and pains - I went and sat outside in the warm sun. And then suddenly found myself in floods of tears - and this is a bit weird for me who never cries to deal with all these emotions. I wasn’t even sure why I was crying - whether it was sadness for my boat and for my place in this race, or relief that my boat and I are safe? Or a mix of all these emotions? I’ve always felt that it’s stupid to cry when you are alone on your boat - nobody’s going to help you or hug you or reassure you so it’s pretty much a waste of time and energy. But at that particular moment I had no control over these emotions. I leant on the coach roof and looked out and there, right there, really close, unusually close, was the most beautiful albatross I have seen, gliding past silently and slowly. He was so close. Normally the albatrosses keep their distance but this was different, as if he could feel my emotion and wanted to help. He stayed close and gave me a wonderful display of effortless flight that was a welcome distraction. They say that albatrosses have the souls of sailors of the past and I can well believe that. I feel like I am being escorted to safety by these amazing creatures and I am grateful for their concern."

https://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/20802/sam-davies-the-tears-came

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I can relate to the last line...

Louis Burton's attacking force seems relentless, his wife Servane noting today on the Vendée Live English programme, "Louis never stops surprising me, but he has a mind of steel. When he went south he asked me, 'will you still love me if I screw up?'"

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6 hours ago, Hitchhiker said:

I set a routing wave height limit of 6 meters.  The forecast Significant wave height in the area of the Kergs for Sunday is 4.8 meters.

By comparison, the virtual fleet is routing aggressively south of Kerguelen.

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3 hours ago, stief said:

Looks like more fun with assumptions. I cringe at the number of times the racers and commentators say "Southern Ocean." I guess that's the casual phrase they like to use, and will continue to use until all nations agree.

Is there a better summary somewhere of the issue? this one seems OK, but I lost a better one last week.

https://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~rwest/wikispeedia/wpcd/wp/s/Southern_Ocean.htm

The definition that I prefer is the position of Antarctic convergence ... A natural boundary. The circumpolar current, more or less, circulates along the north edge of it with a few excursions north into the major oceans and is not as well defined. But either way as you say Southern Ocean is oft misused. lossy-page1-800px-Antarctic-Convergence-

Antarctic Convergence - Wikipedia

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9 minutes ago, littlechay said:

The definition that I prefer is the position of Antarctic convergence ... A natural boundary. The circumpolar current, more or less, circulates along the north edge of it with a few excursions north into the major oceans and is not as well defined. But either way as you say Southern Ocean is oft misused. lossy-page1-800px-Antarctic-Convergence-

Antarctic Convergence - Wikipedia

Could we kind agree on the thought that 'Southern Ocean' to the common folks means the southern portions of the Atlantic, Indian, and Pacific Oceans?  For common nomenclature?  I get it, really, thanks be the ice limit they are not really sailing the "Southern Ocean" or "Antarctic Ocean".  It is just hard to keep saying "Wow, Burton is doing amazing work sailing the Southern Atlantic ...no wait, Southern Indian ocean as he tries to take the lead".  Lots of letters to type.

South is the operative word to the unwashed masses, Ocean is what they are on...Just a thought.  I try to honor this by calling it pseudo but that falls flat.  Ya got racers calling it the Southern Ocean...call a spade a spade...for the masses.

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2 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

Could we kind agree on the thought that 'Southern Ocean' to the common folks means the southern portions of the Atlantic, Indian, and Pacific Oceans?  For common nomenclature?  I get it, really, thanks be the ice limit they are not really sailing the "Southern Ocean" or "Antarctic Ocean".  It is just hard to keep saying "Wow, Burton is doing amazing work sailing the Southern Atlantic ...no wait, Southern Indian ocean as he tries to take the lead".  Lots of letters to type.

South is the operative word to the unwashed masses, Ocean is what they are on...Just a thought.  I try to honor this by calling it pseudo but that falls flat.  Ya got racers calling it the Southern Ocean...call a spade a spade...for the masses.

You can call it what you like :D 

South of something is relative.. Where I come from a fair chunk of what the "common folk" call the Southern Ocean if actaully way up NORTH.... and I don't come from a place in the Southern Ocean... I'll keep correcting when I can be bothered :unsure:

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9 minutes ago, littlechay said:

You can call it what you like :D 

South of something is relative.. Where I come from a fair chunk of what the "common folk" call the Southern Ocean if actaully way up NORTH.... and I don't come from a place in the Southern Ocean... I'll keep correcting when I can be bothered :unsure:

Fair enough..pseudo SO it is and be damn what those racers call it  ;-)  

At least it is still an ocean of some kind...or is it?  (/j)

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3 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

At least it is still an ocean of some kind...or is it?  (/j)

It's wet and big enough to get lost in .... so I reckon it's an Ocean ;)

 

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22 minutes ago, littlechay said:

It's wet and big enough to get lost in .... so I reckon it's an Ocean ;)

 

By that definition a horny fat chick is an Ocean?

 

 

Sorry to any ladies reading this thread. 

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1 hour ago, littlechay said:

The definition that I prefer is the position of Antarctic convergence ... A natural boundary. The circumpolar current, more or less, circulates along the north edge of it with a few excursions north into the major oceans and is not as well defined. But either way as you say Southern Ocean is oft misused. 

Antarctic Convergence - Wikipedia

Thanks Chay. Natural fluid boundary, fluctuating somewhere around 60ºS makes sense.

No wonder a meeting of  internationals had trouble agreeing.

(sailor using "Southern Ocean" 4 times--with preloaded EN subtitles--misuse question solved. Thanks)

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[way OT] Y'all have virtual dock parties too in this lockdown time? Just finished ours. This tweet from an old colleague was a hit:

Quote

One of my favourite things of today was seeing the anti-mask protester holding a sign that said, “Freedom is essential” waiting for the walk light to cross the street.

back to the bottle. Cheers.

[/endOT]

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8 hours ago, Laurent said:

A few more nuggets.

He is pondering aloud whether he should retract his foil or not; he has not done so, so far, but is wondering when it would make sense, to preserve the boat, and allow himself to take a breather.

Bestaven's Maitre Coq IV has 'L' not 'C' foils so CAN'T retract as much.

I wonder if this foil 'constraint' starts to appear as an issue during long periods of heavy going? 

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9 hours ago, Miffy said:
9 hours ago, littlechay said:

Yes. exaclty the same at Cape Horn, but they are all so desperate to cut the corner there and get the obligatory photo that they always risk it. 

In the old days when the Dutch made frequent voyages to the Java region, they also used it to get a firm fix on their nav so they don't end up wrecked in Australia and disappear into history.

"In the old days when the Dutch made frequent voyages to the Java region, they also used it to get a firm fix on their nav so they don't end up wrecked in Australia  and disappear into history."

Mif actually NOT correct and in the spirit of thread accuracy. :D

DR was from Capetown NOT Kerguelens and for over 130 years before accurate LONGITUDE came into being and then another 40 years BEFORE Kerguelens came into play.

Key dates.

- First European and Dutchman to hit Western Australian continental shelf islands was Hartog in 1616.

- Kerguelens NOT discovered and charted until 1772 by de Kerguelen-Trémarec, a Breton-French navigator.

- NO accurate longitude until Harrison's clock in 1730. This enables Kerguelens to be accurately charted.

- This 1611 Browuer route to Java via the Southern Ocean was the SECOND route to Java. See chart below. 

___________________________

East India Company Hartog was the first to compulsory use this southern  Brouwer Route discovered in 1611 5 years previously.  It halved the time from Europe to SE Asia utilising the Roaring Forties and lesser Great Circle longitude distance. 

A sighting of either Amsterdam Island or Saint Paul Island in SE Indian Ocean was the only cue other than DR for vessels to change direction and head north. However as indicated above with no accurate way to determine longitude, many crashed.  Hartog was lucky and didn't, landing to have a quick look and leave behind a pewter to mark it.

893784193_images-2020-01-18T130844_462.jpeg.72b158e058c4944b5cb729d48d40ad15 (1).jpeg

 

Hartog is credited as the second European to sight Australia. The first 10 years before and 164 years before Cook, was Luís Vaz de Torres  (Galician and Portuguese) in 1606 and that was tip of Queensland coast, not Western Australia.

1241030863_images-2020-05-02T092657_413.jpeg.fa180bde8c35b983bb85ac75d5050871 (1).jpeg

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8 minutes ago, Miffy said:

What am I missing? Didn’t the Dutch pioneer the Brouwer route to get to the Java interests? And missing the fix risked running into Australia?

Check dates. Brouwer second route to Java. First landing. Then charting and discovery of Kerguelens so it could be used for DR. Longitude fix predating Kerguelens DR fix by 40 years.

You are only 156 years out from first landing in 1616. :lol:

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25 minutes ago, Miffy said:

I didn’t say discovery date or first or last - my impression was that it was used by the Dutch to get to their colonial grounds and when they missed the islands? They wrecked. 

"..it was used by the Dutch to get to their colonial grounds.." 

How could they USE Kerguelens as a route DR fix when EXISTENCE of Kerguelens NOT known let alone their accurate position NOT possible to be known as longitude fix was still 120 years in the future.

In fact discovery of the Kerguelens by the French in 1772 only pre dated the huge Dutch East India Company itself being DISOLVED only 25 years later and just after the Dutch Anglo War.

Kerguelens were NEVER used in the establishment of and navigation/operation of this Southern Ocean or Brouwer Route and the company mandatory route from 1616. Cape Town was their last known DR fix.

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22 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Ahhhh I see what you mean - guess I shouldn’t trust the Dutch stories about great navigation secret routes

The first Dutch route wasn't their own but copied from the Portuguese via the coast of Africa, Mauritius and Ceylon to Java. The second using the SO their own and driven by a commercial imperative.

The best secret is Australian school children being taught Englishman Cook discovered Australia in 1770.

Seems Torres 159 years and Hartog 154 years strolling around the place beforehand was a Anglo inconvenience. :lol: 

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13 minutes ago, Rafael said:

Uh oh... Not a good night for Burton in his southern lane. Sched shows lost almost 63Nm and last 4hr speed no good... Some kind of problem, hope just tmpBurton.thumb.jpg.39373a52835c08acc153a51438390f62.jpg

No news in his channels or race website yet

big round up at about 20:30 UTC then low numbers ever since.

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5 hours ago, Varan said:

I can relate to the last line...

Louis Burton's attacking force seems relentless, his wife Servane noting today on the Vendée Live English programme, "Louis never stops surprising me, but he has a mind of steel. When he went south he asked me, 'will you still love me if I screw up?'"

Small family trivia: Servane Escoffier, Louis Burton's wife is the first cousin of Kevin Escoffier....

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35 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

big round up at about 20:30 UTC then low numbers ever since.

Indeed, in big seas... MTraffic anyone ? ?

30 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Ogh fuck it better not be... he is my pick after Jerem went pear shaped

His strong wild bull has not gained at all indeed... He's lost some big ground (+700Nm from the 3K milestone restart delta).

JeremieBull.thumb.jpg.74bb5a85a4fc3d1e45ee72ad1bbbfc25.jpg

Feel really sorry too man, a very tough RTW for him trailing offside at the back

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Bestaven's Maitre Coq IV has 'L' not 'C' foils so CAN'T retract as much.

I wonder if this foil 'constraint' starts to appear as an issue during long periods of heavy going? 

The way Yannick presented the option during the conversation, I understood it as something he was pondering to preserve the boat (and himself). Something like: "should I retract the foil? Yeah, sure I would not go as fast but maybe the slamming would diminish a notch (and maybe I could move around and sleep, without flying through the boat...)" type of mindset.

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14 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Not good unless he has to drop the main or address an issue with the main?

Not sure, looks like he's facing the 6.mt swell, but no idea about the real cause, could be anything (minor or mayor). He's in daylight allready

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35 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Not good unless he has to drop the main or address an issue with the main?

AIS will show COG so that implies that he is hove too or fore reaching with small sails. Could well be the best position to fix something .

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Love the idea of this race and have followed the last few races but I just can't understand how corporations can throw millions of dollars at what is basically a coin flip of a result every four years.

If you want to improve this race make it mandatory to install the tech to at least post mortem ID what you hit.  Doesn't have to prevent it but at least ID what all these "UFOs" are.

This race will die if it turns into Russian roulette.

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4 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Meanwhile Jean Le Cam posted the fastest 24 hours of the fleet at 430 Miles Approx. I suspect Jean has confidence in his boat and is sending it whereas Charlie for example maybe sailing with a reef etc. 

Tripon w/his blackPepper have been a tad faster (440Nm) and Boissieres (457Nm)

LeCam appreciates Escoffier much, but he wants to be home alone again :D

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11 minutes ago, Rainier said:

I just can't understand how corporations can throw millions of dollars at what is basically a coin flip of a result

It's a little tough for me to relate to their decision making as well but isn't their goal just to get their names mentioned? Doesn't seem like that necessarily requires success.

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2 minutes ago, prime8 said:

It's a little tough for me to relate to their decision making as well but isn't their goal just to get their names mentioned? Doesn't seem like that necessarily requires success.

“Millions of dollars” isn’t a whole lot for many corporations. 

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47 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Meanwhile Jean Le Cam posted the fastest 24 hours of the fleet at 430 Miles Approx. I suspect Jean has confidence in his boat and is sending it whereas Charlie for example maybe sailing with a reef etc. 

Le Cam has a war horse for a boat, not a science experiment that can't decide what it is. he's stoked, I'd also take a fast daggerboard boat on this race, and always in the gnarly stuff.

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34 minutes ago, Rafael said:

Tripon w/his blackPepper have been a tad faster (440Nm) and Boissieres (457Nm)

LeCam appreciates Escoffier much, but he wants to be home alone again :D

Yes Kevin has been eating all his food.! When they pick Kevin up I presume Jean will be delivered the equivalent of what Kevin ate? As long as the water maker keeps up for drinking water.! :D

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2 hours ago, Rafael said:

Uh oh... Not a good night for Burton in his southern lane. Sched shows lost almost 63Nm and last 4hr speed no good... Some kind of problem, hope just tmpBurton.thumb.jpg.39373a52835c08acc153a51438390f62.jpg

No news in his channels or race website yet...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1 hour ago, Rafael said:

Burton now appears in my screen pointing SSW (bow to the waves)BurtonSSW.thumb.jpg.22a58f4aa59e3e653a8349bd4b3738b6.jpg

It's Official, technical problems, but no details yet.

Ça cavale toujours en tête de course malgré une forte mer de travers limitant la vitesse des bateaux. Louis Burton a perdu beaucoup de terrain dans la nuit, certainement handicapé par des soucis techniques. https://www.vendeeglobe.org/fr/actualites/20807/ca-tape-devant-ca-glisse-derriere

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1 hour ago, prime8 said:

It's a little tough for me to relate to their decision making as well but isn't their goal just to get their names mentioned? Doesn't seem like that necessarily requires success.

 

 

I guess.  What do you think a company like Charal threw into this one?  Hugo Boss?

 

I guess they have folks that scrutinize this but I gotta think the more boats that hit something and have to drop out changes that equation.  

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14 minutes ago, Rainier said:

I guess.  What do you think a company like Charal threw into this one?  Hugo Boss?

I guess they have folks that scrutinize this but I gotta think the more boats that hit something and have to drop out changes that equation.  

The top teams are sponsored in multi year deals that are not just for the Vendee, Alex in the past has done all sorts of PR stunts and tours with the Hugo Boss boats that generate ROI for the sponsor. In a normal no covid vendee year, the boats would do the IMOCA masters series crossing the Atlantic twice, from France to New York and back. Hugo Boss then gets a very large billboard sailing up into NYC.

A common trick in France even at the mini level, is to have the boat on a mortgage owned by an association (company to us English speakers), so its just part of the yearly running costs to pay off which is much smaller than buying the boat out right, and you can sell the boat on to pay off the remainder. Insurance payouts should cover total loss, (although that is getting harder to get) so in reality a failure is not necessarily a huge financial loss, and certainly the sponsors are protected.

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2 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Meanwhile Jean Le Cam posted the fastest 24 hours of the fleet at 430 Miles Approx. I suspect Jean has confidence in his boat and is sending it whereas Charlie for example maybe sailing with a reef etc. 

Interesting to note that Jean le Cam's  own maintenance and refit operation is also caring with "Apicil" which is doing "not too bad" either ;)

King Jean has multiple cards (he was one of the original CDK co-founders)

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3 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

A common trick in France even at the mini level, is to have the boat on a mortgage owned by an association (company to us English speakers), so its just part of the yearly running costs to pay off which is much smaller than buying the boat out right, and you can sell the boat on to pay off the remainder. Insurance payouts should cover total loss, (although that is getting harder to get) so in reality a failure is not necessarily a huge financial loss, and certainly the sponsors are protected.

It’s a smart a proven structure which if you play it right works well for everyone.  If you’re well connected you pre-arrange  the sale of the bot at the end of the project which can make it a relatively “fixed” cost.  The other option if you’re in a country whose tax system allows it can be that the name sponsor buys the boat rights or the whole thing as a marketing expense then double dips by “donating” the boat to a suitable charity on conclusion.

a lot of people try to go into these things not only expecting companies to pay for them to live their dream but also to leave them with an expensive souvenir at the end.

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JLC numbers reassures my impression how silly weight cutting madness is. Cut your toothbrush, do not take spare rudder, talke less food than you may need? And we have a boat carrying probably more than 100 extra kg... and??? 

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https://www.yacht.de/regatta/vendee_globe/vende-globe-interview-mit-boris-herrmann/a126740.html

Long interview with Boris from yesterday... interesting parts translated:

Yesterday he lost his 2 hydro generators, the were ripped out of the mount when he hit 30kts of boat speed, the generators should only be used up to 25. He will repair when its calmer, because it will involve cutting parts with the angle grinder and that is impossible in the current conditions. He is facing short steep waves because of the alghuas current, which make it difficult to stay on pace, he says that he is hitting top speeds of 38 knots, but the average is bad. Now he has slowed down and retraced the foil, because it scares the shit out of him when the boat accelerates uncontrollably and hits the next wave at 38 knots, he has to think about Kevin. It was a difficult decision for him to slow down, bleeding miles is the hardest to see, but at the moment its about finishing for him. His J2 is broken (mentioned before here) and he cannot use it, another reason why he is slow. The main task to make the boat go fast in the current conditions he says, is trimming the autopilot. He needs calm weather to make the repair. OSCAR has warned him and successfully dodged a floating fender so far. He thinks its possible Sam hit a whale.

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25 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

It’s a smart a proven structure which if you play it right works well for everyone.  If you’re well connected you pre-arrange  the sale of the bot at the end of the project which can make it a relatively “fixed” cost.  The other option if you’re in a country whose tax system allows it can be that the name sponsor buys the boat rights or the whole thing as a marketing expense then double dips by “donating” the boat to a suitable charity on conclusion.

a lot of people try to go into these things not only expecting companies to pay for them to live their dream but also to leave them with an expensive souvenir at the end.

They are also using a lot of tax cuts schemas, related to "mécénat" (like with associations such as "initiative coeur"), or also for sponsorship, which also can make sponsoring a sailing team better than say, running TV ads or something.

 

Hope it is not a major stuff with Louis !

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2 hours ago, prime8 said:

It's a little tough for me to relate to their decision making as well but isn't their goal just to get their names mentioned? Doesn't seem like that necessarily requires success.

Any company that sponsors sailing with the plan to get their name mentioned, or their brand seen is going to be upset with their returns. 

Some will use it for internal messaging and team building, some will use it for networking (especially the likes of PRB, Newrest, Akena, Foncia, all in the building industry near each other). 

Those spending millions will plan on having their ROI, or ROO, before this race even starts. Those that come in late, are spending less than 7 figures, but are still getting lots of internal messaging. 

The Skippers, aside from their media commitments, will also be calling into sponsors conferences and meetings. Dee was giving speeches and interviews with Aviva back in 2008, and the comms are significantly better and easier now. 

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RE sponsor ROI

It looks to me a lot like professional cycling.

If you  can't afford to support an effort to win  a grand tour, but take the spotlight at key times, the return on the smaller investment pencils out. And in the VG,  the personality of the participant can really multiply the returns.  But if you spend more than anyone else, especially on PR, and don't produce any results, not so good.

From the sponsor's POV, I don't think winning is everything.

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And of course you need to remember that a lot of the sponsors this year won’t get their intended ROI not because of what has occurred during the race but because of France’s lock down in the weeks leading up to the start effectively closing the village.

I’m not sure about the Vendee but it is definitely the case with the Volvo that many of the sponsors did it for the corporate networking and entertainment opportunities the roadshow offered and really didn’t care about Joe public.

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The latest sked is in and it seems Louis is back up to speed doing 15.4 knots at the time. Charlie Dalin has been talking about reducing sail area is important otherwise the boats nosedives. I think the patience game is important less sail area means you are slower but not risking the boat. The sea state is also very difficult not allowing the boats to sail to their optimum performance. But this is what the SO is all about. 

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Are non foilers showing a good pace or am I biased towards them?

JLC and also Omnia are gaining miles on Malizia, and Seguin also looks slightly better then Bestaven now (did he choose to retract the foil at the end?).

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1 minute ago, DVV said:

Are non foilers showing a good pace or am I biased towards them?

JLC and also Omnia are gaining miles on Malizia, and Seguin also looks slightly better then Bestaven now (did he choose to retract the foil at the end?).

In these conditions the non foilers are probably not at risk as the foilers. Less loads on the boat. But as soon as the conditions allow the foilers will be off again. The Yo Yo effect is a normal part of the race.

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4 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

In these conditions the non foilers are probably not at risk as the foilers. Less loads on the boat. But as soon as the conditions allow the foilers will be off again. The Yo Yo effect is a normal part of the race.

Do you expect conditions to improve sensibly from here on? Le Cam, Malizia and the others nothern part of the fleet do not seem to have horrible conditions, and they are actually just at the beginning of a long SO run. Am I missing something?

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2 minutes ago, DVV said:

Do you expect conditions to improve sensibly from here on? Le Cam, Malizia and the others nothern part of the fleet do not seem to have horrible conditions, and they are actually just at the beginning of a long SO run. Am I missing something?

Most likely in less wind ATM and perhaps an easier sea state not sure. Less loads on their boats mean the non foilers can push harder sometimes. As soon as the sea state changes (Very confused ATM) the foilers will pick up their speed. 

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6 minutes ago, DVV said:

Do you expect conditions to improve sensibly from here on? Le Cam, Malizia and the others nothern part of the fleet do not seem to have horrible conditions, and they are actually just at the beginning of a long SO run. Am I missing something?

This is from Charlie Dalin it explains what I am trying to say too. 

Contacted this morning for the 5 o'clock radio session, the race leader Charlie Dalin, spoke at length about his sailing conditions in the Indian Ocean and the need to adapt to the sea state. The waves come to him from the side and he explains that he needs to adapt to a different rhythm being imposed by the South Seas.
There are blue skies and squalls. The state of the sea is the main issue and is what prevents us from accelerating. Every time I tried to put more sail up, I end up with big nose dives. In terms of wind, it ranges from between 30 to over 40 knots at times. I’ve had quite a bit of wind for a while now and it's not going to stop any time soon. But I've picked up my 'strong wind' rhythm. I managed to sleep well last night. For the last few days, I’ve had a little trouble eating, but I'm feeling better now. I'm starting to get used to the life in the Indian Ocean. I had a temporary setback yesterday, but I'm back in great shape. I can tune the boat, I know what wind angle I need to sail at, I've got into my Indian Ocean routine.
 
The worry is the cross sea. The wind alternates between South-West and North-West, so you sail perpendicular to the swell. So as soon as you catch a wave, you end up nose diving and every time you start the surf you just squeeze tight and hold on…
 
I compromise a lot; manoeuvres take time, they come at a price, so it has to be for an advantage. Yesterday, I was got caught out. It had got a bit lighter and I put up more sail and then the wind picked up and I had wipe out. There is still a long way to go.
 
But since we've been sailing in these conditions for almost a week now, I’m getting used to it. The human being has a great capacity to adapt. I realise that today. Two nights ago, there was a moment when I didn't know what to do. The boat was knocking around. I was being shaken on my bucket seat and yet I managed to fall asleep. I can't wait to get back to conditions that gives me a chance to make more use of the boat's performance.
 
The skies have been solid grey... but I've got sunshine for a change and it's nice. As the days are long, I feel like I get enough light. You can feel that you are moving towards the East: the sun is setting earlier and earlier, and it is also rising earlier and earlier. This morning it must have started to get light around 1am GMT and last night arrived around 5:30pm. There is a half hour difference in the day.  The nights are short and it's nice.  
 
It is beautiful, there are birds, rolling breakers and sailing on the Southern swell. The waves just go on and on rolling and breaking one after another. When there is a ray of sunshine, it brings out the blue of the water and the white of the foam. It's a beautiful to see.
 
I rarely go out. I'm either inside or in the cockpit adjusting and checking things and not so often in my wet weather gear. My life revolves around the weather files, 7/8 in the morning, 7/20 in the evening. I adjust my course. This is my routine. As for the rest, for meals, I try and keep stay on solar time. I've got a map of the time zones so that I can set the meals to solar time. I decided not to stay on French time.
 
It's not that cold. 9 degrees in the cockpit. In the boat it's almost 18... I haven't got out of the cold weather gear yet.
 
I am waiting for the wind shift (to the west) tomorrow night. It will allow me to gybe towards a new front approaching and if all goes well, it is a tack that could send us as far as Cape Leeuwin. If the timing is right, if I manage to keep up the pace, before the end of the weekend I'll be on port tack, a direct course towards the next cape.
 
Yes, I'm in the lead, but there are still so many miles to go, so many things can happen... everything in its own time, I'm taking each weather system one after the other....
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3 hours ago, Rainier said:

Love the idea of this race and have followed the last few races but I just can't understand how corporations can throw millions of dollars at what is basically a coin flip of a result every four years.

If you want to improve this race make it mandatory to install the tech to at least post mortem ID what you hit.  Doesn't have to prevent it but at least ID what all these "UFOs" are.

This race will die if it turns into Russian roulette.

This was all talked about a couple of days ago, the VG is very popular here in France, and always has been, most of the big sponsors are french market centered, a lot of them don't even do business outside of France. Read a couple of pages back for the discussions. They don't care want the anglos think, they only care about what the french think.

As a sponsor, and all the marketing part of it is well worked out, you get to be known for supporting a glorious, and gloriously perilous adventure. The position you finish at is important, real sailing fans will be paying attention, but it really is anecdotal, racing hard and giving all you got, alone, against the random odds of the oceans in a gloriously perilous enterprise is what really matters. Making the finish is an achievement in itself, and the ones that arrive 10, 20, 30 days or more after the first ones to cross the line will be celebrated just as much, and there will still be huge crowds lining the channel in the sables d'olonnes to welcome them back.

I believe there is a huge difference between the anglo-saxon psyche (anglo-saxon wannabees around the world included) and the french psyche in that regard.

I'm so surprised that some people don't get why sponsors back these teams, when it just seems so obvious to me (win or lose, everyone talks about all the skippers and their truly amazing adventure in France) that I believe it must be due to some very deeply rooted cultural difference.

As for the sposonrs themselves, I rather see companies sponsor the skippers (because the teams are really skipper lead) than "causes". When companies sponsor, the skippers don't become company salesmen, you don't hear Beyou saying "eat more meat", or Escoffier saying "buy more concrete", or Dalin saying "buy more insurance". The companies bring them out to company or press events to talk about sailing, about the challenges of the vendee globe... values that the company shares, but not to be a company salesman. But when "causes" sponsor, the deal is usually that the skippers become talking heads for the cause, they don't talk about sailing or the challenges of their endeavor anymore, they just repeat the marketing narrative they were briefed to give. It feels like they sold their souls.

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I try to sleep some nights .... catching up still on one completely lost this week.

Southern Ocean. Mea culpa x 2. One for technical innacuracy and Two for forgetting that on sailing Anarchy we prefer to argue the toss about semantics than lives too often.

So, you are Jacques Caraès the Race Director, or Lieutenant X, commanding the warship. Your call. Launch a RIB in difficult conditions putting the crew at risk? Ask Kevin to jump in the not quite southern enough for some ocean? Accidents happen, cranes fail, outboard engines break down. Are you going to accept responsibility for a decision which is NOT NECESSARY?

Sure they will assess conditions and have a go if they allow, but the forecast ahead on the optimum racing route, does not look like helping, does it? To what extent will they ask JLC to deviate from optimum? Tasmania or south island NZ? Still would need significant diversion probably, but should ensure safe transfer? Of course these options make it even tougher for the IJ.

I simply cannot see the justification for putting lives at unnecessary risk.

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https://twitter.com/LouisBurtonOff/status/1335158522221371394

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Hier le skipper de @bureauvallee 2 a eu un problème électronique sur son pilote jusqu’à 1h30 du matin. Un des capteurs d’angle de barre de Louis Burton affichait des messages d’erreur. Le problème a été résolu. Le skipper et le bateau vont bien, ils reprennent leur route. pic.twitter.com/FvftXeJZFi

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Yesterday the skipper of @bureauvallee 2 had an electronic problem on his pilot until 1:30 am. One of Louis Burton's rudder angle sensors was displaying error messages. The problem was resolved. The skipper and the boat are doing well, they are on their way again. pic.twitter.com/FvftXeJZFi

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14 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

This is from Charlie Dalin it explains what I am trying to say too. 

Contacted this morning for the 5 o'clock radio session, the race leader Charlie Dalin, spoke at length about his sailing conditions in the Indian Ocean and the need to adapt to the sea state. The waves come to him from the side and he explains that he needs to adapt to a different rhythm being imposed by the South Seas.
There are blue skies and squalls. The state of the sea is the main issue and is what prevents us from accelerating. Every time I tried to put more sail up, I end up with big nose dives. In terms of wind, it ranges from between 30 to over 40 knots at times. I’ve had quite a bit of wind for a while now and it's not going to stop any time soon. But I've picked up my 'strong wind' rhythm. I managed to sleep well last night. For the last few days, I’ve had a little trouble eating, but I'm feeling better now. I'm starting to get used to the life in the Indian Ocean. I had a temporary setback yesterday, but I'm back in great shape. I can tune the boat, I know what wind angle I need to sail at, I've got into my Indian Ocean routine.
 
The worry is the cross sea. The wind alternates between South-West and North-West, so you sail perpendicular to the swell. So as soon as you catch a wave, you end up nose diving and every time you start the surf you just squeeze tight and hold on…
 
I compromise a lot; manoeuvres take time, they come at a price, so it has to be for an advantage. Yesterday, I was got caught out. It had got a bit lighter and I put up more sail and then the wind picked up and I had wipe out. There is still a long way to go.
 
But since we've been sailing in these conditions for almost a week now, I’m getting used to it. The human being has a great capacity to adapt. I realise that today. Two nights ago, there was a moment when I didn't know what to do. The boat was knocking around. I was being shaken on my bucket seat and yet I managed to fall asleep. I can't wait to get back to conditions that gives me a chance to make more use of the boat's performance.
 
The skies have been solid grey... but I've got sunshine for a change and it's nice. As the days are long, I feel like I get enough light. You can feel that you are moving towards the East: the sun is setting earlier and earlier, and it is also rising earlier and earlier. This morning it must have started to get light around 1am GMT and last night arrived around 5:30pm. There is a half hour difference in the day.  The nights are short and it's nice.  
 
It is beautiful, there are birds, rolling breakers and sailing on the Southern swell. The waves just go on and on rolling and breaking one after another. When there is a ray of sunshine, it brings out the blue of the water and the white of the foam. It's a beautiful to see.
 
I rarely go out. I'm either inside or in the cockpit adjusting and checking things and not so often in my wet weather gear. My life revolves around the weather files, 7/8 in the morning, 7/20 in the evening. I adjust my course. This is my routine. As for the rest, for meals, I try and keep stay on solar time. I've got a map of the time zones so that I can set the meals to solar time. I decided not to stay on French time.
 
It's not that cold. 9 degrees in the cockpit. In the boat it's almost 18... I haven't got out of the cold weather gear yet.
 
I am waiting for the wind shift (to the west) tomorrow night. It will allow me to gybe towards a new front approaching and if all goes well, it is a tack that could send us as far as Cape Leeuwin. If the timing is right, if I manage to keep up the pace, before the end of the weekend I'll be on port tack, a direct course towards the next cape.
 
Yes, I'm in the lead, but there are still so many miles to go, so many things can happen... everything in its own time, I'm taking each weather system one after the other....

Thank you. This is very interesting.

What I was wondering, though, is:  arent these kind of conditions the most frequent in the stretch of Ocean they are going through until the Horn?

From what I've read over years, Souther Ocean frequently presents crossed waves and difficult seas. I'm just elaborating on JLC opinion on the un-fitness of those kind of boat for this long southern passage.

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Does anyone has a routing for Armel Tripon ? It seems he s going to be caught in light air for a long time.

I wish he could have faced the same conditions as the guys upfront to see how his boat manages the toughest sea

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7 minutes ago, Rafael said:

Quite spectacular short clip footage from Ms. Isabelle Joschke smokin' ! ok.png.76ed3db14a7fda286f780012469a9c60.png

Looks like fun but she'll be colder in the cockpit pretty soon. She looks relaxed and the boat looks good. She is doing a great job.! 

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2 minutes ago, DVV said:

Thank you. This is very interesting.

What I was wondering, though, is:  arent these kind of conditions the most frequent in the stretch of Ocean they are going through until the Horn?

From what I've read over years, Souther Ocean frequently presents crossed waves and difficult seas. I'm just elaborating on JLC opinion on the un-fitness of those kind of boat for this long southern passage.

Un-fitness of those kind of boat? Do you mean the foilers? Why don't we wait until the race is over and make that judgement?

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7 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Looks like fun but she'll be colder in the cockpit pretty soon. She looks relaxed and the boat looks good. She is doing a great job.! 

The Good Hope w/ good Wind & good Sun... Carpe Diem! :D (tomorrow another story)

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14 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Un-fitness of those kind of boat? Do you mean the foilers? Why don't we wait until the race is over and make that judgement?

Of course, this is just saturday morning speculation, based on what we see. I'm not even the right person to judge, I do not have neither knowledge nor experience.

I remember I had - like anyone I guess - the same doubt last edition, but after Armel and Alex race I was quite conviced by foilers. This time they just seem more fragile.

May is just bad luck, this (VG) thing has some level of risk you cannot avoid. Did not want to look bad. Just too much pub talkig from my side

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3 hours ago, Rafael said:

It's Official, technical problems, but no details yet.

Autopilot. https://twitter.com/LouisBurtonOff/status/1335158522221371394?s=20

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Yesterday the skipper of @bureauvallee 2 had an electronic problem on his pilot until 1:30 a.m. One of Louis Burton's rudder angle sensors was showing error messages. The problem was resolved. The skipper and the boat are doing well, they are on their way again.

 

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7 minutes ago, DVV said:

Of course, this is just saturday morning speculation, based on what we see. I'm not even the right person to judge, I do not have neither knowledge nor experience.

I remember I had - like anyone I guess - the same doubt last edition, but after Armel and Alex race I was quite conviced by foilers. This time they just seem more fragile.

May is just bad luck, this (VG) thing has some level of risk you cannot avoid. Did not want to look bad. Just too much pub talkig from my side

Well yes the Foilers have more to break. This time the foilers are more extreme than the last time. More loads. So it may well be the case that they do not make the course? We are only 30% of the race so a long way to go. 

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Burton is doing very well with last edition's winning boat. Much shorter foils than the new ones. Dalin also picked the less extreme foils of both sets.

Seems to work for both of them

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27 minutes ago, stief said:

Pip gives a tour of some maintenance.

[video]

Pip Hare is a pretty damn cool woman. Casually servicing winches and canting keels in the southern ocean.

Did anyone see this?

 

Am I correct in understanding that JLC took a flying fish to the face which caused the bleeding?

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4 minutes ago, Tylo said:

Pip Hare is a pretty damn cool woman. Casually servicing winches and canting keels in the southern ocean.

Did anyone see this?

 

Am I correct in understanding that JLC took a flying fish to the face which caused the bleeding?

Yes because the Auto Pilot failed so he had to manually steer. Leaving him in the elements I presume. Off course some might think Jean wasn't giving Kevin enough food and so Kevin gave Jean a gentle reminder they should both get the same.! :D

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