Jump to content

Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, WLIS Jibing said:

Is there any precedent of a VG competitor retiring due to boat damage, repairing the boat and then finishing the course, just not part of the official race?  I ask because of the discussion of AT or Sam potentially trying this. 

Isabelle Autissier in 1996 had to stop in CapeTown due to rudder issues. She carried on unranked, participated to the (failed) rescue operations for Gerry Roufs in atrocious conditions and finished in third position in terms of time.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 13.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

":A 2h18 heure française, le team PRB a été informé du sauvetage de Kevin Escoffier par Jean Le Cam. " Kevin has been rescued.  

Give it a rest chaps. HB was another attempt at evolution, and they should be applauded for spending a fuck ton of money to do so. If you want to try and be innovative you run the risk of breakages al

VG sailors at sea in the rough A translation: JLC: Damien can you receive me ? DS: Yes Jean I can (garbled)... I don't think you're receiving me that well but I receive you very well. JL

Posted Images

21 minutes ago, WLIS Jibing said:

Is there any precedent of a VG competitor retiring due to boat damage, repairing the boat and then finishing the course, just not part of the official race?  I ask because of the discussion of AT or Sam potentially trying this. 

As noted downstream:   Mike Plant 1989

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, WLIS Jibing said:

Is there any precedent of a VG competitor retiring due to boat damage, repairing the boat and then finishing the course, just not part of the official race?  I ask because of the discussion of AT or Sam potentially trying this. 

Bernard Stamm I think

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, WLIS Jibing said:

Is there any precedent of a VG competitor retiring due to boat damage, repairing the boat and then finishing the course, just not part of the official race?  I ask because of the discussion of AT or Sam potentially trying this. 

Plenty of stories there, Autissier is the obvious influence for Sam, and the list includes Bernard Stamm who finished disqualified after accepting help to save his boat from going on the rocks.

Raphael Dinelli even STARTED the VG hors-course, "à la pirate" as he did not qualify, on the other side of the spectrum Yves Parlier dismasted, repaired his mast on his own and finished in 126 days, eating algae in the last days as he had not been resupplied.

A lot of crazy shit.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Sebyseb said:

Plenty of stories there, Autissier is the obvious influence for Sam, and the list includes Bernard Stamm who finished disqualified after accepting help to save his boat from going on the rocks.

Raphael Dinelli even STARTED the VG hors-course, "à la pirate" as he did not qualify, on the other side of the spectrum Yves Parlier dismasted, repaired his mast on his own and finished in 126 days, eating algae in the last days as he had not been resupplied.

A lot of crazy shit.

All correct, but Parlier never retired.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, nasil2nd said:

Its probably this one.

chrome_2020-12-05_15-49-52.png.973ab02fbcb292abde5e2738a270d25e.png

This is the data of that ship, from AIS

{
            "LAT": "-40.92193",
            "LON": "54.69026",
            "SPEED": "10.1",
            "COURSE": "289",
            "HEADING": "289",
            "TYPE_IMG": "3",
            "TYPE_NAME": "Tugs & Special Craft",
            "STATUS_NAME": "Underway using Engine"
        }

Not long now, if that's the one...

#.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, OPAL said:

Not long now, if that's the one...

 

If it is, then it looks like they might be able to rendezvous on the southern edge of the high to the north, and the wind might not be too bad.  No idea what the sea state might be like, though.

Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, OPAL said:

Latest from Will.

 

28 minutes ago, Sebyseb said:

Plenty of stories there, Autissier is the obvious influence for Sam, and the list includes Bernard Stamm who finished disqualified after accepting help to save his boat from going on the rocks.

Raphael Dinelli even STARTED the VG hors-course, "à la pirate" as he did not qualify, on the other side of the spectrum Yves Parlier dismasted, repaired his mast on his own and finished in 126 days, eating algae in the last days as he had not been resupplied.

A lot of crazy shit.

Story of Parlier was crazy, he had to build an hoven to cook his mast!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, WLIS Jibing said:

Is there any precedent of a VG competitor retiring due to boat damage, repairing the boat and then finishing the course, just not part of the official race?  I ask because of the discussion of AT or Sam potentially trying this. 

 

Enda O'Coineen, the Irish Skipper from the last edition of the Vendee.

 

https://www.imoca.org/en/news/news/enda-o-coineen-around-the-world-and-back

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Sebyseb said:

Plenty of stories there, Autissier is the obvious influence for Sam, and the list includes Bernard Stamm who finished disqualified after accepting help to save his boat from going on the rocks.

Raphael Dinelli even STARTED the VG hors-course, "à la pirate" as he did not qualify, on the other side of the spectrum Yves Parlier dismasted, repaired his mast on his own and finished in 126 days, eating algae in the last days as he had not been resupplied.

A lot of crazy shit.

Sam is talking the talk, but no-one is going to sign off on a dodged keel box repair for a trip 3/4 or the way around the world.  Especially in Dec 2020 when you can't fly your experts in for a few weeks to make the repair.  That boat is coming home on the back of a ship.  The other two are there for the race not the adventure so won't even be looking at the dodge up.  I'd expect there is some cattle trading going on right now trying to find someone who will give them a deal to build three cradles and then ship the three boats back together.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you to others for posting this first. The contrast between the boat trail and how Isabelle stays composed and calm is just mindboggling. I would be holdking something white-knuckled, calling for my mom...

Her interview deserves a translation. So here it is:

Journo: "tell us what are the conditions right now, does not look too easy for y'all..."

Isabelle: "Listen, clearly, it is not easy; wind is 25 to 30 knots, the swell is from the aft quarters. Not easy to negotiate but still, much better than a few hours ago, and the last 48 hrs were just hell. The sea state was really hard and the wind was very unstable. It could be 15 knots windspeed for 20 minutes and suddenly rise to 30 knots. Very difficult to find the right sail settings. I tried several times to change sails, and it was far from successful sometimes... So I had 48 hrs with conditions that were really not fun..."

Journo: "still, when we look at the tracker, you are in the right spot, you are in the first group, it must feel great to see your ranking."

Isabelle: "yeah, I was able to catch the right train... That was before those hellish 48 hrs, just before CoGH. Between repair sessions, I found the energy to push really hard. It was a very rewarding phase. Since then the conditions deteriorated, and I got a series of technical issues, I have torn apart one of my hydrogenerator, and a flury of other small issues. I spent a lot of time in repairs again. So there are super good phases and slow down phases. You have to be patient. To each day its burden..."

Journo: "can you explain to us how you find the energy to still fight, even when this is not going your way?"

Isabelle: "sometimes, I wonder myself. Quite frankly, it is not always easy. Sometimes, with the tireness, you dispair facing the difficulties. But at some point, it comes back. I know I then have to focus on myself, take a breather for 5 minutes, settle down, and then go back at it. Not easy to explain. Your drive is coming from deep inside. You have to let it come back."

Journo: "great, can you tell us what is coming up for the next few hours?"

Isabelle: " I am heading towards the ZEA, for another few hours, and I will need to jibe. Not only because I cannot go in that zone, but also because the wind is going to shift. Right now, I am in the back end of a LP, with cold temperatures. And there is a new LP coming from behind, so the wind is going to change, I will be in front of the system;  but the wind will stay as strong, and the temperature is going to go up. But more importantly, the sea state should improve. I will sail towards the NE for a few hours, maybe 24 hours. Then, this system will pass over me and I will be behind a LP again, and I will have hellish conditions again, like the one I had in the past 2 days... So here we go. I wonder if the Southern seas are going to be like that for 30 days or if I will get some respite..."

Journo; "Isa, we talked to Sam Davies, who told us that her thoughts were with you..."

Isabelle: "listen, I am touched. With Sam, we understand each other. It was really weird to cross each other at the beginning of the Indian Ocean. We were almost in collision course. I did not expect at all for her to have this collision. I am so very sorry for her. It is a touchy topic. Those abandons, those incidents.... On my side, as long as I do not have such an incident, I am very happy to be in the race, truly, I am so sorry for all the concurrents who had to give up. On the other hand, it does not make my race easier to know that I have not had any big incident so far..."

Journo: "Isa, thank you so much, we are very happy to see your fighting spirit..."

6:06 Isabelle: "and you see, this is the boat rounding up..."

Big silence for a few seconds...

 

Journo: "can you show us, can you..."

Silence for a few more seconds...

Isabelle: "Listen, I don't know if you can see the trail behind me, but she went sideways... OK... It's OK, She came back on track... As you can see, the conditions are rough... We can say so."

 

And a few more seconds of the boat FLYING!!

  • Like 16
Link to post
Share on other sites

Watching the convergence of Apicil (sans foils) and Matre Coq (with foil). Apicil was sailing faster and lower for the entire time and just at sunset they must have been within sight of each other.

 

Screen Shot 2020-12-05 at 3.31.21 PM.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

Meanwhile Sodebo has scythed through the backmarkers and run up against the high pressure ridge in front of her. Otherwise she might have broken the outright 24 hours record of IDEC in 2016 of 894 miles, they were averaging 38 knots with regular 40+

 

Screen Shot 2020-12-05 at 3.39.09 PM.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the translation of the Desjoyeaux interview https://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/desjoyeaux-on-ne-fait-jamais-des-bateaux-pour-qu-ils-cassent-05-12-2020-12668039.php

Quote

Are all these issues on new foilers normal ?

Some statistics : we are far away from the 2008 carnage, with simple boats and only little changes from 2004. The intensity of the race probably caused this back then. For 2020, let’s start with basic stuff, a daggerboard boat has the boards lifted when going down wind fast, so it is only 6 m wide. With some foils that cannot be retracted, some boats are 12 m wide, twice the beam.

Let’s detail and differentiate the different issues :

  • ·         Initiative Cœurs : UFO. Game over most of the time. Maybe an impact of one foil, but apprently the keel took most of the shock. Luckily, the water ingress is limited so Sam can go back to port ;
  • ·         Arkéa-Paprec : UFO on the foil. The leading edge is destroyed where the foils sits on the bottom wedge. The foil is so strong transersaly that it is almost impossible to destroy longitudinaly. The bottom wedge at the bottom of the hull is detached, impossible to repair onboard.

To avoid these sort of breakages, you can always build a stronger boat. Eric Tabarly use to say « stronger doesn’t hurt ». You could build bank safes, but they would never win any race. You never build a boat planning for it to break. When they hit something, you never know how and how much, so we take some margin hoping i twill be enouh not to lose the boat, but no doubt the damages will always be substantial. In my opinion, for these wo boats, the job was done properly (Initiative Cœur id a 2010 boat, and the Hugo Boss 2019 TJV keel damage may be the reason the boat survived the hit).

  • ·         Linked Out : We didn’t see much. Did the tip of the foil hit a whale or something else ? Once it was damaged and without too many collateral damage ; Thomas Ruyant was able to adapt by cutting the damaged part in order to preserve what could pe preserved and remain efficient ;

I realise how lucky I was to be able to complete the race twice without hitting anything.

  • ·         Hugo Boss : Big damage to the longitudinal structure in the bow. When did this happen ? One big wave jump can be enough to start damaging the structure. The earlier you see it the easiest it is to fix. What Alex did with onboard materials is impressive ;
  • ·         Bureau Vallée : Broken bulkhead. 2016 boat, won the last VG, you can’t say the boat has not been tested and validated. Maybe another wave jump ?
  • ·         L’Occitane : Broken hook. Hook badly designed or too much tension in the bottom forestay ? I would say lack of training in tough wind and waves conditions. Shitty 2020 didn’t allow as much training as normal.

Some breakages are easy to explain, some will reauire more investigation. It is of course not satisfactory, nobody wants to braek, but it is sometimes a necessary step backwards to allow future progress. If nothing happened on the Vendée, nobody would care apart from sailors. It may be a bit cynical, but the 1996 Vendée did a lot for the legend of the race with all the (sometimes dramatic) breakages.

Older daggerboard boats are going as fast a new foilers, does this mean the foilers are not sailed to 100% of their potential, that the skippers are not pushing them ?

I think the foilers are not living to their promises. As long as the sea is flat, the foiler performs extremally well between 15 and 25 knots of wind. As soon as you get waves, and sometimes disturbed seas, the foiler tends to take off and land roughly, very roughly. Slamming can get really bad if you don’t know hom to handle the boat. Newer boats are stroner than the previous generations are, but it looks like they are not strong enough to really push the boat in these conditions. This is a fine line between the boat strength and the skipper’s willingness to push. A lighter boat and a careful skipper could well get through fine, but the risk is high. For me, it is important hat the skipper is involved in the design and in the compromise strength/lightness. In offshore racing, you cannot just be a pilot that jumps in the boat when it is finished. I never could have done it, I wouldn’t have been able to really push the boat. The ocean is not a well known domain and is hard to model on a computer so when it breaks, you make the boat stronger and when it doesn’t break, you can go faster. It is not a very rational way to innovate, but nobody has actually found a better way ! Last generation foilers almost all have large foils that they cannot fully get inside the hull. The wing is always there in the water to windward. Following the decision to allow foils, the IMOCA class decided not to allow any lifting surface on the rudders, which would have been logical and allow a proper control of the trim and of the flight height. The images are looking great with the dragster behaviour of the boats, but we all see that the hull is staying in the water, acting as the third leg of the stool, and subect to huge shocks. As long as rudder lifting surfaces are not allowed, boats will have to be reinforced. In the meantime, the skippers have to take the foot of the pedal when they encounter rough see, which you tend to see in offshore racing.

Do you worry when you see an IMOCA boat break in half at the end of the surf ?

My modest experience suggests that in most mechanical failures that are not shock related, the visible breakage only happens a while after the damage started. Where did it start ? Did the hull suffer a shock that started a crack ? What it on the deck like Souffle du Nord in 2016 ? Thomas Ruyant was lucky he felt the boat break, just in time to save it. Kevin Escoffier knew the boat was light, he reinforced it. Did he add enough ? Unfortunately we will never know as she sank quickly, leaving no change for the skipper to see or understand anything. We should recognise the skipper’s trainign and the good practice in terms of safety equipment and procedures.

Jean Le Cam says foilers are nor adapted to the Vendée Globe. Is this an exaggeration ?

Jean neever exagerrates, or maybe he does it all the time ! I undertstand what he is saying. Unless proiven otherwise, the southern oceans never were the best place for the foilers to show their full potential because of the sea state. I would have liked to see Hugo Boss and Arkéa Paprec there, with their fully retractable and therefore controllable foils. We can see that Bureau Vallée, a 2016 boat is doing well with her smaller retractable foils, as he is able to regulate the action of the foils. Each edition of the race is adding knowledge. Jean was right in the first third of the race, let’s see what happens in the remaining two thirds. All that will be used for the 2024 race, this is how things always happen !

Who is responsible for all the breakages, the architects ‘who always take the blame when things break), the sructural engineers, the skippers, the IMOCA class ? A bit of everything ?

I don’t know anyone, naval architect, engineer, builder, team, skipper who never made any mistake. I don’t like to blame anyone in partcular, everyone must take hes share of responsabilities, a bit like during the current pandemic period. A boat is the result of team work. Unlike what I sometimes hear, boats are not designed to break, but this is competion, we always try to push the limits, and sometimes we go too far. Neson Mandela used to say « I never lose, I win or I learn ». I think this is very much relevant today. In offshore racing, we always learn, individually and collectively, and hopefully it will carry on that way !

Is the one design mast not strong enough for the new powerful foilers ?

Yes I think so. These masts were designed before foils were allowed. Without talking about shocks ans associated dynamic loads, the foils are increasing the righting moment, which means that not only is the mast not that less expensive than a bespoke one, but it is also not « idiot proof » (in english in the text) and unadapted to offshore solo sailing. We spend lots of money by adding sensors in the rigging, after calculations have been done and redone to ensure it stays up. It was already like that before 2016 and the foils, so you can imagine what it is like with the 2020 boats. Either we get rid of the one design mast, either we ban the foils… When you try to limit costs with technology, you can get hit by the boomerang of imagination for performance.

Kevin Escoffier talked about « inverted foils », does this mean that the foils could have been pushing towards the bottom instead of lifting the boat ?

Of course ! It is a loading case we are looking at. When the boat surfs into a wave, the boat trim with the bow under water means the deck is being pushed down. With foils, the same thing is happening at the middle of the boat. The foil, its box and the structure around it should be designed to sustain this.

If you decided to start a campaing for the 2024 race, what would your boat look like ?

It would be the best looking and the quickest ! Not the lightest, but not the heaviest either. She would have foils, and lifting surfaces on the rudders, a mast stronger than the one design one. Like the three boats we (Mer Agitée) built o far, it would have an extra watertight bulkhead around the foils and keel (not mandatory in the rule).

Would the solution be to force foils to be fully retractable ?

I don’t see why. The IMOCA rule is an open rule. In terms of safety – for me the most important objective of the rule ; before the equity – lots of progress have been made since 1989, which each edition of the race adding new rules. The rules are here to make sure that the guy who cares about his own safety and the guy that doesn’t can have a fair race. This contraints have thankfully brought better performance, so not many people complained. Jean Le Cam may well be right ; and in four years, skippers may choose to go for a Renault 4 rather than a Ferrari, as this could be more efficient than the current generation !

 

  • Like 18
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sam's endoscope pic of her keel. She says there is a piece missing just above the bulb, so probably not a whale hit, more likely something more discrete and hard like a submerged log.

 

Screen Shot 2020-12-05 at 4.03.35 PM.png

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, littlechay said:

My latest routing has nobody going south of Ker. Is.

FWIW, Zezo agrees, so it isn't just to avoid heavy seas down south.  I think it's because 3 days from now, the ice limit area in the vicinity of 90E is projected to have 50 kts sustained.  (Even in the virtual boats, winds that high aren't good...  their speed maxes out in 30 kts).

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Sam's endoscope pic of her keel. She says there is a piece missing just above the bulb, so probably not a whale hit, more likely something more discrete and hard like a submerged log.

 

Screen Shot 2020-12-05 at 4.03.35 PM.png

In my opinion must have been something more massive than a log if it caused the boat from 20 kt to a deadstop

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Zonker said:

Do you think it dates back BEFORE Moitessier  and his decision to do the long way? I think that glamorized ocean racing in the French mind to a different degree.  

I think you're right, Moitessier had that effect, but I don't think it came out of thin air, in a way he was the right spark at the right time that revived, in a contemporary form, a latent collective fascination for adventures on the high seas, a romantic fascination that may have some particularities in france for historical and cultural reasons... don't think everyone would agree... it would be a long conversation I'm not willing to have on SA :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Sam's endoscope pic of her keel. She says there is a piece missing just above the bulb, so probably not a whale hit, more likely something more discrete and hard like a submerged log.

 

Screen Shot 2020-12-05 at 4.03.35 PM.png

What would be the dark spot at the back (or front, but guess back) of the bulb itself ?

Link to post
Share on other sites

What works in the race so far:

- avoiding high winds

- slowing down when things are getting a bit crazy

- having good luck avoiding objects

What does not work:

- going through the center of a depression

- trying to catch the lead when things are getting a bit crazy

- having bad luck in avoiding objects 

This coming week will be an interesting one with significant winds for the leading pack, followed by a patch of no wind south of Australia. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, ant1 said:

What would be the dark spot at the back (or front, but guess back) of the bulb itself ?

If the dark spot on the bulb is indeed the forward part, then possibly the area on the keel might be compression failure.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, WLIS Jibing said:

Is there any precedent of a VG competitor retiring due to boat damage, repairing the boat and then finishing the course, just not part of the official race?  I ask because of the discussion of AT or Sam potentially trying this. 

Not a direct answer to this because other people already have but it's a lot like Everest once you set your mind on accomplishing the feat it's hard to let go until you have done it. Sam is one of the unlucky ones however with more and more UFO's in the water nowadays the dream killers aren't going away anytime soon.! 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, cortosam said:

Not a good marketing advertisement for the Oscar navigation system since it was set up on both Sam and Cammas boats who suffered collisions with UFOs, maybe its time to throw up way more money since it has been a long known issue in offhore racing.

'Not a good marketing advertisement for the Oscar navigation system since it was set up on both  Sam and Cammas boats who suffered collisions with UFOs.."

Sam's impact was just above the keel bulb.

There should be an IQ test to get access to this thread.

  • Like 3
  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

'Not a good marketing advertisement for the Oscar navigation system since it was set up on both  Sam and Cammas boats who suffered collisions with UFOs.."

Sam's impact was just above the keel bulb.

There should be an IQ test to get access to this thread.

Easy Jack not everyone is as gifted as you.! You need to keep reminding yourself who you are. :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Damian Seguin first showed his hand as a 'smokey' last Thursday.

On 12/3/2020 at 4:11 PM, jack_sparrow said:
On 12/3/2020 at 3:53 PM, AnotherSailor said:

Burton is killing it! Ruyant is slowly falling behind.

Burton certainly is max VMG now and staying in the SW pressure as Charlie is running out of horsepower looking to gybe (which in real time he probably already has). 

Damian Seguin also staying in SW pressure and going in right direction is appearing as a smokey 

 IMG_20201203_160843.jpg

Now he has fully 'revealed' his hand and he like Louis Burton will 'PEEL' off from the 'peloton' when they see an opportunity.

As Louis said to his wife and manager (Kevin's cousin) as he was looking to find the station for the SO east bound 'train'..... "will you still love me if I dive south and screw it up" :P

Watching 'brave moves' like this are what makes this race...from the lesser ranked and less monied, more so. Add in also being a paralympic competitor....wow.

IMG_20201206_110537.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Easy Jack not everyone is as gifted as you.! You need to keep reminding yourself who you are. :D

"Reminding" true......my ex wife 'reminded' me every fucking day and today all I have is the 'settlement statement' to 'remind' me how 'costly' the truth is. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ant1 said:

What would be the dark spot at the back (or front, but guess back) of the bulb itself ?

I think that is the back. The front is too pointed to be the leading edge of the bulb. But it could be whatever she hit just slid down the keel foil, pivoted around, and then wiped off the paint from the bulb.

To me very few things have truly neutral buoyancy. Some plastics might be the exception. Most debris floats, thus some part of it is at the surface. If it has negative buoyancy it's sinking. To just float in the water column if you're debris is unlikely. Marine life, yeah they go up and down or hover just a few meters under the surface. So nobody really hit's a "submerged container". They hit a container that is barely awash or maybe, a wave has pushed it under a little bit and it is slowly heading back to the surface because it only has a small amount of positive buoyancy.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

To my eye, it looks like a pretty big dent to the bulb itself (round indentation), though I certainly agree that it’s a bit too short and pointy to be the front of the bulb.

Saturated logs tend to have fairly neutral buoyancy. I certainly agree that there aren’t too many other objects with neutral buoyancy, as you say containers tend to be on the positive side due to the volume of air trapped within them.

Regardless, I’d be hard pressed to leave Cape Town with that level of possible damage to the keel itself.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, littlechay said:

I don't know. There are plenty of good carbon people there building some good boats. With plans from the engineers back in France they would not have a problem putting it all back together there .. IMO

Perhaps - I just don’t see how it can be safely done, then launch her alone into the remaining of the race two months behind everyone else. The most dangerous position position is the slowest imoca headed to Cape Horn. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, blunderfull said:
6 hours ago, WLIS Jibing said:

Is there any precedent of a VG competitor retiring due to boat damage, repairing the boat and then finishing the course, just not part of the official race?  I ask because of the discussion of AT or Sam potentially trying this. 

As noted downstream:   Mike Plant 1989

"Is there any precedent of a VG competitor retiring due to boat damage repairing the boat and then finishing the course...?"

"As noted downstream:  Mike Plant 1989"

NO.

Mike DIDN'T retire off NZ in first edition because of damage. He fixed his rig problem ALONE which was relatively simple and kept going. 

He retired voluntarily because of 'outside assistance' and that was NOT for helping with the fix.

Rather it was to save his boat as when anchored he was being pushed/dragged onto a lee shore and forced to accept outside assistance to stop Duracell bring wrecked. 

His voluntary retirement circumstances unknown to all except those who helped, could easily have been pushed aside. He didn't. He knew. He received much aclaim for that on arrival at finish from public and other competitors. Many considered it a 'technicality' and his placing should be recorded. He didn't agree.

He 'set the bar' in this first VG for the importance of 'integrity' of competitors in this competition.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

You wouldn't want to be any near Hawaii ATM with that ship dropping 1900 containers overboard after a stack collapse in bad weather. The same boat had already suffered a stack collapse not long before this incident. A recovery effort is underway but how many of the 1900 do they recover? 

Surely this has to be dealt with sooner or later. Bad weather is always to blame. So the ships should be grounded in these conditions IMO. Or is it  a case of there is always going to be bad weather so they have to go? With this many containers going overboard what hope have these guys of completing such a race? I think we running at 50% of the competitors won't complete this race for whatever reason as it stands with a high percentage due to UFO's. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

This afternoon, Sébastien Simon (ARKEA PAPREC), who announced his retirement yesterday, moored near the other two IMOCAs "I'm in contact with Seb, we will have a cry together and have a beer," smiled Davies.

And while the actual race maybe ends here, it is ironic that here it is where the Vendée Globe started 34 years ago. In 1986, sailors in the BOC Challenge took a seat in a bar in Cape Town and also ordered beers. Guy Bernardin, Bertie Reed and Philippe Jeantot talked of their dream to have solo non-stop race around the world. The first Vendée Globe took place three months later. In her own way, Sam Davies echoes the the story. She strengthens her desire to finish and complete her story, quoting Isabelle Autissier - who dismasted in the 1992 BOC Challenge but repaired to become the first woman to complete a solo round-the-world circuit. She spoke too of Nick Moloney (in 2004-2005), and Enda O'Coineen (2016-2017). "I have a lot of respect for those who finish out of the race," said the sailor.

Linky for even more.

Link to post
Share on other sites

And to continue from this.

1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:
7 hours ago, blunderfull said:
7 hours ago, WLIS Jibing said:

Is there any precedent of a VG competitor retiring due to boat damage, repairing the boat and then finishing the course, just not part of the official race?  I ask because of the discussion of AT or Sam potentially trying this. 

As noted downstream:   Mike Plant 1989

"Is there any precedent of a VG competitor retiring due to boat damage repairing the boat and then finishing the course...?"

"As noted downstream:  Mike Plant 1989"

NO.

Mike DIDN'T retire off NZ in first edition because of damage. He fixed his rig problem ALONE which was relatively simple and kept going. 

He retired voluntarily because of 'outside assistance' and that was NOT for helping with the fix......

...He 'set the bar' in this first VG for the importance of 'integrity' of competitors in this competition.

1042616471_images-2020-12-04T092122_238.jpeg.4fd6590dc4d9db02ad8a8f3578489cf2.jpeg

 "I ask because of the discussion of AT or Sam potentially trying this."

- Sam subject to haul out and keel box fix and 'sign off' reality, IS restarting as a non competitor.

- Alex so far NOT continuing even though only requires a piss easy rudder fix and maybe a once over on his 'at sea' bow structure fix that was already ticked off as good to continue.

In the spirit of the 'Lone Wolf', the late Mike Plant and Alex similiarly a loner together with Isabelle, Bernard and Enda etc who have done it, an unofficial RESTART by Alex would be very symbolic.

Not just that. Get to fully test this 2000 HB boat out which is now a unknown and will remain so until 2024, him driving or someone else.

But even better, still a RACE.

He and HB leave Cape Town so their Lat/Long corresponds approximately with Charal and Jérémie Beyou's as he passes Cape Town.

Then the two black boats 'head to head' in a restart and as was always looked forward to, before Jerem's VG went pear shaped.

One competing, one not.....irrelevant. 

But will the Englishman oblige???

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, troll99 said:

boris.jpg.0834862bfc86e9be806d68951497ad6c.jpg

Gosh, I love this forum & thread (what a shame there's only 30 ppl following it...)

2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Putting aside his english advantage, Boris's contributions are 'media' engagement, first class.

His Xmas 'jumper' also sets him apart. :D  

Agree, but The real cuestions are..., Is he naked balls a la southern fresh?... With a sturdy warm wool undie?... or with a Christmas Thong...

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Varan said:

And while the actual race maybe ends here, it is ironic that here it is where the Vendée Globe started 34 years ago. In 1986, sailors in the BOC Challenge took a seat in a bar in Cape Town and also ordered beers. Guy Bernardin, Bertie Reed and Philippe Jeantot talked of their dream to have solo non-stop race around the world. The first Vendée Globe took place three months later.

"The first Vendée Globe took place three months later."

Correction 3 years. :rolleyes:

Guy Bernardin, Bertie  Reed and Philippe Jeantot 

Another three (3) correction.

A lot more drinkin than 3. :lol:

That 3 was Div A - 50 to 60 feet. Also drinking in Cape Town at Bertie's, a Sth African, favourite bar was Div A Titouan Lamazou.

ALSO drinking were in Div B - 40 to 50 footers, Mike Plant and Jean Luc Van Heede.

So SIX drinking.

ALL SIX competed in the first VG in 1989 won by Titouan Lamazou. Plant, Reed and Bernardin recorded as DNF.

All SIX French EXCEPT Plant and Reed.

I think ALL but Lamazou at the time, that FIVE were the world's ONLY solo, non-stop THREE times circumnavigators.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, huey 2 said:

Jermie.       

I cant see evidence that he can be doing 28 as he is in light breeze,... so maybe old footage

The instruments said 27 Knots so I presume he was nudging 28 for a moment

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rafael said:

Gosh, I love this forum & thread (what a shame there's only 30 ppl following it...)

 

45 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

You mean posting. 

A lot following it.

350k views in just over a year. 

foll.jpg.b83b6c51396689f358560058d44683ea.jpg

Well that's what the upper Follow button says (32). Maybe there's more posting members...

350K views in a year... yep, but unique visitor views?... or total clicks mix from the users/posters/followers from each day and each time they access + not signed users?... I'm sure there are a lot of visitors in ROM (Read Only Mode) yep agree... By the way, wonder who the admin is... curious that there are no real time stats showing for ex. real time online visitors (signed or not), this kind of forums/platforms have options to put them into display... dunno

Link to post
Share on other sites

Louis Burton cutting the AEZ very close most likely wanting to maximise his VMG before gybing. Won't be long before Jeremie overtakes Sebastien on Mercy he is only 240 miles behind him. Meanhwile the gang South of South Africa have all but parked up. I wonder how many tricks Kevin is learning with life on board with Jean Le Cam? LOL I wonder if Jean had any wine left over?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dalin has gybed North, which seems wise with the LP system appearing on the scene. Reaching through that system ... boat breaking conditions.

So here is a question for the weather routers: would it make sense for him to go North-Eastish for the next 3 days. It would more or less get him to the Cape Leeuwin latitude. At that point the worst of the depression is passing and he can start going South again, with the wind. Yes, more distance, but less wind and broad reaching both before and after the LP system passes

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

Louis Burton cutting the AEZ very close most likely wanting to maximise his VMG before gybing. Won't be long before Jeremie overtakes Sebastien on Mercy he is only 240 miles behind him. Meanhwile the gang South of South Africa have all but parked up. I wonder how many tricks Kevin is learning with life on board with Jean Le Cam? LOL I wonder if Jean had any wine left over? 

This could be the sunday morning moment for the Escoffier's transfer maneouver... (?)

Right now they have more less good conditions of wind in 4mt seas that will get worse in the next hours... Seems quite logical

EscoffierTransfer.thumb.jpg.6282f5ba578ceec2bc13816d5f590dba.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, AnotherSailor said:

Dalin has gybed North, which seems wise with the LP system appearing on the scene. Reaching through that system ... boat breaking conditions.

So here is a question for the weather routers: would it make sense for him to go North-Eastish for the next 3 days. It would more or less get him to the Cape Leeuwin latitude. At that point the worst of the depression is passing and he can start going South again, with the wind. Yes, more distance, but less wind and broad reaching both before and after the LP system passes

There is no real need. He'll stay ahead of the worst of the wind and when the system does catch him it will have moved south with little duration or fetch to his north and west) ... He should be able to straight line it.  See the attached image. Shading is TWS that he will ecounter along his possible routing area, Route has barbs to the wind at that point of the route...GRIB is run forward to the time it catches him.... more or less and it may change ;)

Apiva.PNG

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rafael said:

Well that's what the upper Follow button says (32). Maybe there's more posting members...

I and many I'm sure don't use follow button.

1 hour ago, Rafael said:

350K views in a year... yep, but unique visitor views?... or total clicks mix from the users/posters/followers from each day and each time they access + not signed users?.

Not unique, incl non signed SA members. Take count now and come back in a week.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

I wonder how many tricks Kevin is learning with life on board with Jean Le Cam? LOL I wonder if Jean had any wine left over?

....and after the wine....I wonder if Jean and Kevin have become 'intimate'?

I hope not.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, AnotherSailor said:

Dalin has gybed North, which seems wise with the LP system appearing on the scene. Reaching through that system ... boat breaking conditions.

So here is a question for the weather routers: would it make sense for him to go North-Eastish for the next 3 days. It would more or less get him to the Cape Leeuwin latitude. At that point the worst of the depression is passing and he can start going South again, with the wind. Yes, more distance, but less wind and broad reaching both before and after the LP system passes

Dalin averaged 10 knots for the last four hours before he gybed, so conditions must have gotten a lot rougher than in the video posted earlier, forcing his hand to gybe away. Even now only doing 13

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sodebo is now just south of Pip Hare doing 37 knots to her 13. Not being constrained by the ice limit, they will slice below the clusterfuck of boats stuck in the high pressure ridge ahead.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Sodebo is now just south of Pip Hare doing 37 knots to her 13. Not being constrained by the ice limit, they will slice below the clusterfuck of boats stuck in the high pressure ridge ahead.

She better watch out and not break her neck (!) :D

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Louis Burton cutting the AEZ very close most likely wanting to maximise his VMG before gybing.

"maximise his VMG before gybing."

Yes but to get to the 'ice fence' corner ASAP or in around 5 hours, then his routing no longer constrained by the fence leaving all options on the table. 

Currently around 150TWA best VMG and BS of those in this postcode so any gybe forced upon him by the fence will be short and sweet and repeated.... so will be working hard. 

He is now wishing for a pole and symmetric kite. :lol:

He is definitely now the races 'southern man'.

IMG_20201206_165759.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Rafael said:
1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

 Take count now and come back in a week.

Nah why wait...:) This is what Internet just spitted for the traffic home page and the forums ;) (zoomIn, 799 x 2359.px)

But not traffic this thread???

Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Sodebo is now just south of Pip Hare doing 37 knots to her 13. Not being constrained by the ice limit, they will slice below the clusterfuck of boats stuck in the high pressure ridge ahead.

Is there a tracker for Sodebo etc?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rafael said:

This could be the sunday morning moment for the Escoffier's transfer maneouver... (?)

Right now they have more less good conditions of wind in 4mt seas that will get worse in the next hours... Seems quite logical

EscoffierTransfer.thumb.jpg.6282f5ba578ceec2bc13816d5f590dba.jpg

DONE ok.png.6dfdb9ea7a7d53a72938769c9ab3fbdf.png

[KEVIN ESCOFFIER ONBOARD THE FS NIVÔSE]
The transfer of Kevin Escoffier (PRB) from Jean Le Cam's (Yes We Cam!) IMOCA took place this Sunday morning between 3h05 and 3h15 CET. The transfer was swift despite significant swell said Frédéric Barbe, commander of the FS Nivôse
The PRB skipper is currently onboard the Nivôse and in good health.
Jean Le Cam has resumed racing, and the Nivôse frigate is heading for La Réunion.

© Paul-David Cottais / Marine Nationale / Défense

Escoff1.jpg.9346befe117d253b51c0a5dfeeb2af7f.jpgEscoff1b.jpg.694b8862e03bf5a01b814eb1e7cdd583.jpg

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIco0DkBJ4b/

  • Like 15
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

"Is there any precedent of a VG competitor retiring due to boat damage repairing the boat and then finishing the course...?"

"As noted downstream:  Mike Plant 1989"

NO.

Mike DIDN'T retire off NZ in first edition because of damage. He fixed his rig problem ALONE which was relatively simple and kept going. 

He retired voluntarily because of 'outside assistance' and that was NOT for helping with the fix.

Rather it was to save his boat as when anchored he was being pushed/dragged onto a lee shore and forced to accept outside assistance to stop Duracell bring wrecked. 

His voluntary retirement circumstances unknown to all except those who helped, could easily have been pushed aside. He didn't. He knew. He received much aclaim for that on arrival at finish from public and other competitors. Many considered it a 'technicality' and his placing should be recorded. He didn't agree.

He 'set the bar' in this first VG for the importance of 'integrity' of competitors in this competition.

I did not know. I guess this was the 'bar' for Stamm exclusions few editions ago

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Rafael said:

DONE ok.png.6dfdb9ea7a7d53a72938769c9ab3fbdf.png

[KEVIN ESCOFFIER ONBOARD THE FS NIVÔSE]
The transfer of Kevin Escoffier (PRB) from Jean Le Cam's (Yes We Cam!) IMOCA took place this Sunday morning between 3h05 and 3h15 CET. The transfer was swift despite significant swell said Frédéric Barbe, commander of the FS Nivôse
The PRB skipper is currently onboard the Nivôse and in good health.
Jean Le Cam has resumed racing, and the Nivôse frigate is heading for La Réunion.

© Paul-David Cottais / Marine Nationale / Défense

Escoff1.jpg.9346befe117d253b51c0a5dfeeb2af7f.jpgEscoff1b.jpg.694b8862e03bf5a01b814eb1e7cdd583.jpg

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIco0DkBJ4b/

Wow great to see. What a good outcome. Jean got some company and Kevin lives to fight another day. There was an analysis of why PRB may have cracked in half, did anyone see that in English?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites