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":A 2h18 heure française, le team PRB a été informé du sauvetage de Kevin Escoffier par Jean Le Cam. " Kevin has been rescued.  

Give it a rest chaps. HB was another attempt at evolution, and they should be applauded for spending a fuck ton of money to do so. If you want to try and be innovative you run the risk of breakages al

VG sailors at sea in the rough A translation: JLC: Damien can you receive me ? DS: Yes Jean I can (garbled)... I don't think you're receiving me that well but I receive you very well. JL

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1 minute ago, C. Spackler said:

The RIB clearly sent over a couple large bags of supplies before Kevin jumped overboard. 

No they didn't.
I liked this photo.
567509689_Kevinescofier.PNG.615e3db831779b3a12aff27b098f0461.PNG

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5 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Burton and Seguin are able to sail a lot lower course than those around them, and also appear determined to experience the worst this low has to offer.

not a coincidence that they sailing the proven boats there

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1 minute ago, BozoC said:

1851228013_JLCBags.thumb.jpg.e2b33d1934717344149b5b6c67e822f6.jpg

I wasn't there,
What was in the three bags and was it with in compliance race management?

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6 minutes ago, BozoC said:

1851228013_JLCBags.thumb.jpg.e2b33d1934717344149b5b6c67e822f6.jpg

The sun is very low in this picture it's fake news.
Gentlemen: this is only a yachtrace not presidential elections.
383906346_Kevinescofier.PNG.2536157d7e2041918c6ae1b2e9cb279e.PNG
Here the sun is high in the sky.

 

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15 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Burton and Seguin are able to sail a lot lower course than those around them, and also appear determined to experience the worst this low has to offer.

The comment attributed to Charlie about slowing down and NOT riding the front I don't get. 

You position yourself north/south to avoid the worst of the low, not put the handbrake on. 

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Reported so far to have contained Henaff paté (tins), crisprolls and sea salt (I think) butter. No mentions of red plonk ....

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11 hours ago, littlechay said:

There is no real need. He'll stay ahead of the worst of the wind and when the system does catch him it will have moved south with little duration or fetch to his north and west) ... He should be able to straight line it.  See the attached image. Shading is TWS that he will ecounter along his possible routing area, Route has barbs to the wind at that point of the route...GRIB is run forward to the time it catches him.... more or less and it may change ;)

Apiva.PNG

I see what you mean. Thanks for taking the time to explain that. As they move with the system, the wind will change direction and they will not run into the headwinds. 

It seems that most try to stay a bit North nonetheless, at least that is what the tracker shows at the moment.

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1 minute ago, BozoC said:

It doesn't say more than what is quoted really. Electrical problems had him desperately trying to get pilots working, checking connections, changing wires, then a headsail furler on the sprit jammed and he had to go up and sort it out. He admits to being well knackered.

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12 minutes ago, JeronimoII said:

Didac has hit a 7 meter long whale while doing 10 knots. No apparently damage to the boat, though. 

Wasn't it mentioned somewhere that he took the daggerboards out pre start ? Maybe saved his race, wonder if that event may have been a showstopper for a foiler.

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41 minutes ago, Schakel said:

The sun is very low in this picture it's fake news.
Gentlemen: this is only a yachtrace not presidential elections.
383906346_Kevinescofier.PNG.2536157d7e2041918c6ae1b2e9cb279e.PNG
Here the sun is high in the sky.

 

Cam's cam facing aftish vs Rib's cam looking forward. 

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1 minute ago, Essex said:

Cam's cam facing aftish vs Rib's cam looking forward. 

What did he get?
Diesel, a christmas package,  condoms? a set of chess and backgammon?
Only joking.

Kevin escofier.PNG

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11 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Don't see any diesel top up for watermaking 2 X persons

I'm sure he gets most of his power from hydrogenerators & solar. 12V energy recovery pump style watermakers are very energy efficient. About 1Ah.hr = 1 Gallon (water temperature dependant etc etc).  

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9 hours ago, NZK said:

Would it be this simple to arrange a collection and transfer if it were one of the non-French skippers? I'd imagine there would need to be discussions at a diplomatic level between France and the country of whichever skipper needed the rescue to make an agreement about the costs of the manouvre and a timeline for transfer off the French Navy vessel??? Hopefully this would all be very quickly handled as a formality but maybe not?? Theoretically the person in Kevin's position is no longer in 'imminent danger'as he's aboard another vessel so this might blur the lines on what responsibilities/obligations government/state operated vessels are subject too and also those of the country of the skipper are...

I'm sure they would just do it without all the intergovernmental bullshit. 

See the points about 3 - 4 pages back about French culture and how important ocean racing is to them. The Navy is in the area, the VG organizers say "can you do us a favour" etc.  

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7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

"how many states do project their power so far away from its domicile territory? not many I guess.."

Lots actually and not just Frances' territories in the 3 oceans. Brits still have lots of Overseas Territories.

Anguilla
Bermuda
British Antarctic Territory
British Indian Ocean Territory
British Virgin Islands
Cayman Islands
Falkland Islands
Gibraltar
Montserrat
Pitcairn Islands
Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha
South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands
Turks and Caicos Islands

USA

Guam

Hawaii

Samoa 

ETC.

Netherlands

Various bits in Carib etc..

 

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7 hours ago, Snowden said:

Difference being that the French ones are actually part of the republique whereas the UK ones are treated as poor relations with their citizens getting limited rights in the ‘mother’ country. 

That used to be be true.... Not now. The territories have no direct representation in parliament as they are supposed to be self governing (and self sufficient) but some manage that better than others. 

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7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Brits leasing large slab of BIOT to the US (Diego Garcia) and kicking out inhabitants the Chargosians the worst example. 

Some might say people actually in the mother country have limited rights these days with their Trump 'look a like' administration. :D

Yes... They keep winning court battles to be allowed back but Downing street just conviniently ignores that ! wankers

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10 minutes ago, littlechay said:

That used to be be true.... Not now. The territories have no direct representation in parliament as they are supposed to be self governing (and self sufficient) but some manage that better than others. 

I stand corrected. I remember being told that only 80% of France was in the ‘hexagon’ proper but sounds like they are trying to put the islands on some sort of path to independence. 

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5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

"..actually I think british navy would do the same for the same  reasons.." 

Actually NONE of those British Overseas Territories are within a UK Global Maritime Search and Rescue Area and NEITHER is ANY part of the VG race course. 

True that. The Falklands has its own assets and there is always a UK river class patrol boat there. Argentina is the MRCC and has F-all in the way of servicable assets. An odd situation.

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2 minutes ago, Snowden said:

I stand corrected. I remember being told that only 80% of France was in the ‘hexagon’ proper but sounds like they are trying to put the islands on some sort of path to independence. 

That's wrong.

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30 minutes ago, Zonker said:

I'm sure they would just do it without all the intergovernmental bullshit. 

See the points about 3 - 4 pages back about French culture and how important ocean racing is to them. The Navy is in the area, the VG organizers say "can you do us a favour" etc.  

In the case of Alex Thomson rescue, i think it would really depend on wether he brings his puppet of robin knox-johnston with him during the rescue :)

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2 hours ago, Schakel said:

The sun is very low in this picture it's fake news.
Gentlemen: this is only a yachtrace not presidential elections.
383906346_Kevinescofier.PNG.2536157d7e2041918c6ae1b2e9cb279e.PNG
Here the sun is high in the sky.

 

No it's not..... open your eyes

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17 minutes ago, littlechay said:

That used to be be true.... Not now. The territories have no direct representation in parliament as they are supposed to be self governing (and self sufficient) but some manage that better than others. 

That  is not correct littlechay. Most of the overseas French land is organized as "Départements d'Outremer". A "Départment" is an administrative sub-division. It has elected officials to manage the territory and it has representatives at the French Parlement and the French Senate. This is the case for all the French Carribean Islands, French Guyana, Saint-Pierre et Miquelon, Ile de la Réunion, Mayotte.

New Caledonia is different and on a path to independence, with a shared sovereignty at the current stage.

Other areas like the Kerguelen Islands, the Crozet Islands, and other small islands where there is no permanent inhabitants, but scientists and military personnel on rotation are territories under the responsability of the French administration, but they do not have legislative representatives or elected officials.

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5 minutes ago, Laurent said:

That  is not correct littlechay. Most of the overseas French land is organized as "Départements d'Outremer". A "Départment" is an administrative sub-division. It has elected officials to manage the territory and it has representatives at the French Parlement and the French Senate. This is the case for all the French Carribean Islands, French Guyana, Saint-Pierre et Miquelon, Ile de la Réunion, Mayotte.

New Caledonia is different and on a path to independence, with a shared sovereignty at the current stage.

Other areas like the Kerguelen Islands, the Crozet Islands, and other small islands where there is no permanent inhabitants, but scientists and military personnel on rotation are territories under the responsability of the French administration, but they do not have legislative representatives or elected officials.

And french Polynesia which is a "Territoire d'Outre Mer" and i doubt that Nouvelle Calédonie will get his independance after the third referendum

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11 minutes ago, Laurent said:

That  is not correct littlechay. Most of the overseas French land is organized as "Départements d'Outremer". A "Départment" is an administrative sub-division. It has elected officials to manage the territory and it has representatives at the French Parlement and the French Senate. This is the case for all the French Carribean Islands, French Guyana, Saint-Pierre et Miquelon, Ile de la Réunion, Mayotte.

New Caledonia is different and on a path to independence, with a shared sovereignty at the current stage.

Other areas like the Kerguelen Islands, the Crozet Islands, and other small islands where there is no permanent inhabitants, but scientists and military personnel on rotation are territories under the responsability of the French administration, but they do not have legislative representatives or elected officials.

You are confused.... I was replying to the statement about British overseas territories (BOTs) where did you get the French connection? :huh:

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APIVA covers.

He could have stayed ahead of the comming low but I have noticed that he has backed off over the last couple of days when compared to the polars.

So he has decided not to race the LP and to cover.. it is  a race after all :)

 

APIVA covers.PNG

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16 minutes ago, cortosam said:

And french Polynesia which is a "Territoire d'Outre Mer" and i doubt that Nouvelle Calédonie will get his independance after the third referendum

New Caledonia would probably be the one with the biggest chance to manage being independant, quite big and some resources (Nickel), but also very polarized between who voted yes and no amongst the regions (basically Noumea area, no, the rest yes).

would be interesting to list these teritories based on percentage of GDP coming from the "metropole" as subventions in various forms, not sure where to find these numbers...

A lot of numbers there :

https://www.iedom.fr/IMG/pdf/tableau_de_bord_des_outre-mer___edition_2019_vf.pdf

But not these ones

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26 minutes ago, cortosam said:

And french Polynesia which is a "Territoire d'Outre Mer" and i doubt that Nouvelle Calédonie will get his independance after the third referendum

Just checked, there will indeed be a third referendum, we'll see... so far they said no to independence in the first two referendums

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4 minutes ago, littlechay said:

You are confused.... I was replying to the statement about British overseas territories (BOTs) where did you get the French connection? :huh:

Well, on post 7946 you replied to Snowden who was comparing and contrasting the status of the French overseas territories, as part of the French republic, and the British Overseas Territories which have no national representation.

You replied " That used to be be true.... Not now. The territories have no direct representation in parliament..." It was ambiguous: which territories are you talking about? The French ones or the British ones? As you stated "no longer true", I thought you were talking about the French ones which would have lost their national representation. And by the way, Snowden has understood your reply the same way than me; see his answer post 7948.

If you had said "the UK territories have no direct representation in parliament", that would have avoided the ambiguity.

 

No biggy, back to normal broadcasting !

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2 hours ago, JeronimoII said:

Didac has hit a 7 meter long whale while doing 10 knots. No apparently damage to the boat, though. 

////

2 hours ago, V21 said:

Wasn't it mentioned somewhere that he took the daggerboards out pre start ? Maybe saved his race, wonder if that event may have been a showstopper for a foiler.

Daggerboards or not, in this case, soft conditions and low speed are key factors, at 10 knts of boatspeed to a sudden stand still, just got a rouge bump. That would obviously be a totally different story foiling at 20knts.

1 hour ago, BozoC said:

Dida Costa on One planet Ocean hit a whale this afternoon, Apparently, no damage to the boat !

image.png.ef33041e827dfb05a24948de733b8d01.png

After the sudden collision and stand still of the boat, he inmediately went outside and saw the cetacean moving and breathing in surface to his stern, he saw the head and body and no sign of blood in water. He checked w/ UW camera the hull and observed some little scratch in the keel, for the moment nothing mayor. He continues. Video minutes after collision in his IG.

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14 minutes ago, ant1 said:

I didn't even know there was going to be a third referendum, new caledonians already said no to independence twice... I don't know why all of a sudden they would change their mind... but who knows

Because the result of the referendum was close .... aparently if it is close enough a new referendum can be called. I read that in the NZ press somewhere at the time of the last referendum so it may not be true of course :)

 

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20 minutes ago, littlechay said:

APIVA covers.

He could have stayed ahead of the comming low but I have noticed that he has backed off over the last couple of days when compared to the polars.

So he has decided not to race the LP and to cover.. it is  a race after all :)

 

 

I'm only scrolling ahead in the tracker forecast, but it looks like there will be steady SW wind behind the front for the foreseeable future.  That leading group should make a lot of miles the next few days, while staying out of the worst of the winds.

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6 minutes ago, littlechay said:

Because the result of the referendum was close .... aparently if it is close enough a new referendum can be called. I read that in the NZ press somewhere at the time of the last referendum so it may not be true of course :)

 

On this point you are correct and not confusing ... The process set out 3 referendums, if needed, based on the results being close. So it is almost certain there will be a third, in 2 years I think, but stand to be corrected.

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12 minutes ago, cms said:

On this point you are correct and not confusing ... The process set out 3 referendums, if needed, based on the results being close. So it is almost certain there will be a third, in 2 years I think, but stand to be corrected.

No the three referendums principle was part of the "Noumea agreement" signed in 1998, that is three referendums except if the result of the first or second one were yes, but no rule on how close the results were to determine if a third one or not to my knowledge :

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accord_de_Nouméa#L'évolution_de_l'organisation_politique_de_la_Nouvelle-Calédonie

And the rules on who can vote are quite strict (you have to be born there or have lived and worked there for 20 years or something)

By the way I understand you are a Scot ? So new Caledonia sounds like "new Scotland" for you ? :) 

 

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2 minutes ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Hey Beb,  thanks for the inspired translation. I found this poetic:  “When you try to limit costs with technology, you can get hit by the boomerang of imagination for performance.

Is this a famous or original thought?

Not sure I understand the French phrase...

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7 minutes ago, yl75 said:

By the way I understand you are a Scot ? So new Caledonia sounds like "new Scotland" for you ? :) 

Shetlander, Scot, British, European, Breton by adoption over 30 years, and soon French too. New Caledonia, Nova Scotia ... We get everywhere since the highland clearances. You will find Burn's Night celebrated in Glasgow, Hong Kong, Sydney, Dubai, Hickory, Calgary, Paris, Rome, Lusaka ....

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59 minutes ago, ivansh said:

How is JLC so quick? Fastest guy out of pretty much everyone in the fleet. Can he actually win this thing?

Who said an old war horse can't charge? :)

 

Yes we Cam - I do hope he makes it!

 

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3 hours ago, Zonker said:
14 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Don't see any diesel top up for watermaking 2 X persons

I'm sure he gets most of his power from hydrogenerators & solar. 

Not enough for big loads AP in particular.

Big alternators/Aux short run ie. hour or so a day/big lithium storage. 

Renewables the bonus when conditions allow, hydro also comes at a drag cost, solar not brilliant this east west leg and lattitude.

Varies boat to boat Boss had the largest solar array. 

I'm pretty sure no top as glad to see some mandatory weight gone.

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3 hours ago, littlechay said:
10 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Brits leasing large slab of BIOT to the US (Diego Garcia) and kicking out inhabitants the Chargosians the worst example. 

Yes... They keep winning court battles to be allowed back but Downing street just conviniently ignores that ! wankers

"wankers"

Cunts. 

Probably think they were kinder, not like the Marshals and 70 nuclear tests later and allowed back later to glow in the dark.

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Watched and enjoyed again this vintage vid of a tough 2012VG start for Bernard Stamm in his Juan KO jinxed untamable beast before his final destinie wreck... A simple repair in his hydrogenerator turned into this clusterfuck... Murphy was clearly onboard with him that day :)

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1 hour ago, ivansh said:

How is JLC so quick? Fastest guy out of pretty much everyone in the fleet. Can he actually win this thing?

Confidence and familiarity with your boat, in a way thet you're never surprised by it's reactions in different wind and sea state configurations, can be in advantage when considering your options in routing for max efficiency too... I remember Jean le Cam saying he and his boat "getting along well" ("on s'entend bien") in a video some days ago, which I take to mean that.

To some level they all do... maybe some more so than others

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Got to remember that not all legacy boats are the same. Some programs are scraped together with bare minimum and the sails are terrible and the skipper has minimal support and time at sea. 
 

JLC has north sails. He’s dropped 200 kilos from his boat. He’s got more ballast water than anyone else. He’s got the exp and ability to handle heavy air and confused sea states. 

And we are not even by 2nd of the 3 capes yet. He’s doing amazingly well. But also the foiling boats don’t need to push to break to be ahead of him in the long marathon. 

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37 minutes ago, Miffy said:

And we are not even by 2nd of the 3 capes yet. He’s doing amazingly well. But also the foiling boats don’t need to push to break to be ahead of him in the long marathon

Mif you have far better memory than me. 

Apart from when daylight between BankPop and BOSS wounded last time, can you remember a leader clearly pulling on the handbreak like Apivia to get BEHIND a NORMAL front....

OR am I blowing it out of my arse thinking that in addition to north/south positioning to avoid the shit bit, this is the FIRST time a leader has slowed to NOT ride the front for as long as possible?

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4 hours ago, littlechay said:
11 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Brits leasing large slab of BIOT to the US (Diego Garcia) and kicking out inhabitants the Chargosians the worst example. 

Some might say people actually in the mother country have limited rights these days with their Trump 'look a like' administration. :D

Yes... They keep winning court battles to be allowed back but Downing street just conviniently ignores that ! wankers

Their time may be somewhat limited if everything kicks off next year  (sorry for the minor hi-jack, my last comment here)

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3 hours ago, littlechay said:

You are confused.... I was replying to the statement about British overseas territories (BOTs) where did you get the French connection? :huh:

Not sure how they misread that either?:wacko:

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I’m not sure Jack - but I’m pretty sure this is the first edition where sea state data and predictions probably play a more important role for the foilers than just expected wind speed and direction. Right or wrong - it is clear the VPLP and Verdier boats were optimized to achieve extremely good avg speeds very quickly above 15 knots and don’t need to chase the heavy airs. The last few years’ weather have been weird for everybody and I wouldn’t be the least surprised if things are stranger in 4 years time. 

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22 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Mif you have far better memory than me. 

Apart from when daylight between BankPop and BOSS wounded last time, can you remember a leader clearly pulling on the handbreak like Apivia to get BEHIND a NORMAL front....

OR am I blowing it out of my arse thinking that in addition to north/south positioning to avoid the shit bit, this is the FIRST time a leader has slowed to NOT ride the front for as long as possible?

Dragging too much shit through a confused sea state taking its toll??

As a smart Multi sailor told me, sail to the sea state...and they dragged shit on purpose.

ENZA New Zealand Sets Circumnavigation Record - boats.com

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6 minutes ago, mad said:

Dragging too much shit through a confused sea state taking its toll??

As a smart Multi sailor told me, sail to the sea state...

I think it is just smart seamanship. Some ppl call it lack of courage. But YesWeCam and Apivia aren’t similarly situated. Anyone who launched a new boat this edition except Kojiro and maybe Armel intended to win this. It is a lot of coin to convince the sponsor to give up and with the lead in hand, if Apivia now loses it because of a breakage? Good luck getting the same hand of cards dealt - Charal, Corum, Hugo Boss broke. LinkedOut on one foil. No heroics - everyone knows Apivia is fast even in light air, she can be conservative even as far as on the way back north in the south Atlantic approaching the equator and still run away at will. She’s got both foils and is the fastest boat left. Spent more time making content for the sponsor, make the victory resonate for more fans, sleep some more, worry about the structure of the boat less. 

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3 hours ago, yl75 said:

By the way I understand you are a Scot ? So new Caledonia sounds like "new Scotland" for you ? :) 

The Scottish connection being named and discovered by Englishman Cook in his 1774 second Pacific expedition (but not claimed), was down to pure luck and shit French navigation. :D

The Pacific in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries was dominated by the Spanish and Dutch and lesser number of French. Magellan carried a lot of French crew. Many think the Spanish bumped into New Caledonia when setting up in Asia but couldn't be bothered with it, noting their Luis Váez de Torres had already bumped into eastern Australia in 1610 and likewise passed it up.

Then to the eighteenth century with the French chap Bougainville in 1760's who set out with orders to establish French South Pacific settlements to compensate France for the loss of Canada. He claimed French Polynesia as the first even though the Brits got there first, but didn't claim it like New Caledonia.

However luckily or unluckily the French didn't bump into New Caledonia, Vanuatu (both still unclaimed then), Australia or New Zealand (claimed by Cook in his 1770 your). How in the fuck you miss those I don't know. 

Weirdly it would take until 1853, or 80 years after Cook for New Caledonia (and Vanuatu, now independent) to be claimed and that was by the French under orders of Emperor Napoleon III.

Bit of thread drift never killed anyone. :lol:

 

580px-New_Caledonia_on_the_globe_(small_islands_magnified)_(Polynesia_centered).svg.png

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1 hour ago, ant1 said:

Confidence and familiarity with your boat, in a way thet you're never surprised by it's reactions in different wind and sea state configurations, can be in advantage when considering your options in routing for max efficiency too... I remember Jean le Cam saying he and his boat "getting along well" ("on s'entend bien") in a video some days ago, which I take to mean that.

To some level they all do... maybe some more so than others

Not everyone is JLC or Le Cleach.

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3 hours ago, ivansh said:

How is JLC so quick? Fastest guy out of pretty much everyone in the fleet. Can he actually win this thing?

After rounding the horn, if it blows like stink on the noise... yes, he can win even without his competitors breaking.

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1 hour ago, Miffy said:

I think it is just smart seamanship. Some ppl call it lack of courage. But YesWeCam and Apivia aren’t similarly situated. Anyone who launched a new boat this edition except Kojiro and maybe Armel intended to win this. It is a lot of coin to convince the sponsor to give up and with the lead in hand, if Apivia now loses it because of a breakage? Good luck getting the same hand of cards dealt - Charal, Corum, Hugo Boss broke. LinkedOut on one foil. No heroics - everyone knows Apivia is fast even in light air, she can be conservative even as far as on the way back north in the south Atlantic approaching the equator and still run away at will. She’s got both foils and is the fastest boat left. Spent more time making content for the sponsor, make the victory resonate for more fans, sleep some more, worry about the structure of the boat less. 

Agree. After all the abandons and events in the first part of the race, leaving the pure sailing competition to a lower degree, the only heroic expectative from my standpoint of view, (and respecting of course everyone involved in this amazing and difficult adventure), would be veteran legend LeCam finally winning in his last attempt, a brave female like Joskche or an even braver paralimpian like Seguin reaching for an historic victory.

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22 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

The Scottish connection being named and discovered by Englishman Cook in his 1774 second Pacific expedition (but not claimed), was down to pure luck and shit French navigation. :D

The Pacific in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries was dominated by the Spanish and Dutch and lesser number of French. Magellan carried a lot of French crew. Many think the Spanish bumped into New Caledonia when setting up in Asia but couldn't be bothered with it, noting their Luis Váez de Torres had already bumped into eastern Australia in 1610 and likewise passed it up.

Then to the eighteenth century with the French chap Bougainville in 1760's who set out with orders to establish French South Pacific settlements to compensate France for the loss of Canada. He claimed French Polynesia as the first even though the Brits got there first, but didn't claim it like New Caledonia.

However luckily or unluckily the French didn't bump into New Caledonia, Vanuatu (both still unclaimed then), Australia or New Zealand (claimed by Cook in his 1770 your). How in the fuck you miss those I don't know. 

Weirdly it would take until 1853, or 80 years after Cook for New Caledonia (and Vanuatu, now independent) to be claimed and that was by the French under orders of Emperor Napoleon III.

Bit of thread drift never killed anyone. :lol:

 

580px-New_Caledonia_on_the_globe_(small_islands_magnified)_(Polynesia_centered).svg.png

I was reading about the Chatham Islands off NZ the other day. Interesting history inc native slave owners. 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Mif you have far better memory than me. 

Apart from when daylight between BankPop and BOSS wounded last time, can you remember a leader clearly pulling on the handbreak like Apivia to get BEHIND a NORMAL front....

OR am I blowing it out of my arse thinking that in addition to north/south positioning to avoid the shit bit, this is the FIRST time a leader has slowed to NOT ride the front for as long as possible?

I can't remember it ever happening... I'd be surprised if the brake's being pulled

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Jean Le Cam and Damien both have non foiling boats and are up near the front. I wonder how much redress JLC will receive. Also I'm not privy as to how the Race Committee calculate redress other than logically looking at time lost, average speeds etc but it would be a bummer if JLC missed the weather window because of his stop and if that would be taken into consideration. Will be interesting to see how JLC and Damien pan out being non-foilers I would assume JLC may have a slight speed edge?

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FWIW Bougainville, while he brought along a scientific mission - wasn’t really interested in surveying or looking for lands to claim - he just wanted to get around ASAP without grounding his vessel or getting his crew killed. 

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1 hour ago, mad said:
4 hours ago, littlechay said:

You are confused.... I was replying to the statement about British overseas territories (BOTs) where did you get the French connection? :huh:

Not sure how they misread that either?:wacko:

 Me neither and I started the BOT post chain. 

Laurent 6 hours to naughty corner, 24 second offence. :lol:

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11 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Jean Le Cam and Damien both have non foiling boats and are up near the front. I wonder how much redress JLC will receive. Also I'm not privy as to how the Race Committee calculate redress other than logically looking at time lost, average speeds etc but it would be a bummer if JLC missed the weather window because of his stop and if that would be taken into consideration. Will be interesting to see how JLC and Damien pan out being non-foilers I would assume JLC may have a slight speed edge?

Yep and considering Damien's boat is 3 edition old (2008) It's his first Vendee and he has one full functioning hand..... very impressing

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48 minutes ago, Rafael said:

Agree. After all the abandons and events in the first part of the race, leaving the pure sailing competition to a  degree, the only heroic l from my standpoint of view, (and respecting of course everyone involved in this amazing and difficult adventure), would be veteran legend LeCam finally winning in his last attempt, a brave female like Joskche or an even braver paralimpian like Seguin reaching for an historic victory.

Only five retirements out of, what, 33 entries? This is one of the better Vendees considering that the average attrition rate is 52%. Always seems like a bunch have issues before Good Hope, a few more by the Horn, and a few more tired ones thinking they made it in the Atlantic. This race is, and always has been, about managing yourself, your boat, with maybe a bit of lady luck mixed in. But looking back, it is the meticulous, well prepared, talented skippers who win. If Le Cam, or whoever, wins, it is not because of someone else's retirement. It is because they earned it, prepared for it, and sail the shit out of it.

 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Then to the eighteenth century with the French chap Bougainville in 1760's who set out with orders to establish French South Pacific settlements to compensate France for the loss of Canada. He claimed French Polynesia as the first even though the Brits got there first, but didn't claim it like New Caledonia.

1 hour ago, Miffy said:

FWIW Bougainville, while he brought along a scientific mission - wasn’t really interested in surveying or looking for lands to claim - he just wanted to get around ASAP without grounding his vessel or getting his crew killed

 

"Bougainville in 1760's who set out with orders to establish French South Pacific settlements to compensate France for the loss of Canada."

"FWIW Bougainville, while he brought  along a scientific mission - wasn’t really interested in surveying or looking for lands to claim"

Miff our Sth Hemisphere Marine History score is 1 - 0, after Kerguelen as a Dutch  DR position question, I so yes you deserve a chance to even up. :lol:

First where you are dead right.

- His 1766 -69 expedition (commissioned by the French government to circle the Earth as a voyage of exploration) did have a scientific bent. He was accompanied by naturalists and other scientists. 

- NOT laying claim to land and not the primary endeavour yes, BUT it did occur depending on postcode and what he found. For instance where it didn't. The German Empire laid claim to Bougainville in 1899, 30+ years after he landed and that was one place the locals were as you say, not friendly unlike those in French Polynesia. 

Now where you have it wrong

1. I'm only speaking of Bougainville laying claim in the Central Pacific.  Subsequent French ventures like Jean-François-Marie de Surville in 1769 off the back of Bougainville was the one who missed all those places in the east Pacific I mentioned.

2. Bougainville was a contemporary of Cook, he took part in the Seven Years' War in North America and the American Revolutionary War against Britain.

3. Remember Cook too was ALSO on a 'scientific expedition' to French Polynesia. His going looking for the Great Southern Land and claiming it was the subject of secret orders. He made that claim in 1770.

4. Bougainville had exactly the same secret orders, his to establish a French South Pacific settlement to compensate France for the loss of Canada and a Falklands issue. In fact Bougainville had been an aide to General Montcalm Commander of France's Nth American forces, who negotiated the French evacuation of Canada after France’s defeat there.

5.  I mentioned the Falklands. Bougainville also became enmeshed in rivalries back in Europe, provoking concern in Madrid and London after he successfully on an earllier voyage installed a French colony in the Falkland Islands, which was ultimately withdrawn. A stretch might be is to say Bougainville started the Falklands War. :D

6. His 1766 secret orders pertaining to the Central Pacific tour was also commissioned as a quid pro quo for the Falkland loss. This led to his French Polynesia claims for France starting in the East Tuamotus in 1767, and then Tahiti in 1768.

7. It was Bougainville who established the quaint but symbolic pattern of French explorers making a written declaration of possession for France and burying it in a bottle. 

Miff I'm sorry but we are going to have chalk up the score for Southern Hemisphere Marine History Exploration as 2 - 0.

You can get me back when boats are back in the northern hemisphere. :D

 

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