Jump to content

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Snowden said:

lol. having said that it's not so unusual to get 'tacked' when you are off watch

Reminds me of a story told by the director of the biggest hospital in Soweto back in the day, Baragwanath, who was a family friend. Got sick one day and admitted overnight and when woken up at 5AM for the regular nurse shift change was thoroughly pissed off!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 13.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

":A 2h18 heure française, le team PRB a été informé du sauvetage de Kevin Escoffier par Jean Le Cam. " Kevin has been rescued.  

Give it a rest chaps. HB was another attempt at evolution, and they should be applauded for spending a fuck ton of money to do so. If you want to try and be innovative you run the risk of breakages al

VG sailors at sea in the rough A translation: JLC: Damien can you receive me ? DS: Yes Jean I can (garbled)... I don't think you're receiving me that well but I receive you very well. JL

Posted Images

1 hour ago, troll99 said:

Are you kidding? Steer clear of UFO? How would you do that? :rolleyes:

Perhaps his/her/its/their forum name gives you a hint (just kidding TF!)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BozoC said:

Cannot  believe what I have just seen on the french TV M6; they were interviewing JLC who is very disappointed. With his friend Kevin, they decided to make a joke and they made up the story of Jean being hurt by a flying fish ... with red stuff on his cheek. Unfortunately, nobody understood the joke and he received ton of sympathy messages. 

On a more serious side of the race, he is worried about the beating the boat received so far and will probably slow down a bit until he can check everything. 

I got hit by a flying fish one night and it hurts. Also leaves a fishy smell on your face. My wife was behind the wheel and ducked down for some reason, adjusting the Monitor steering line I think, and a FF passed over just where her face had been. She thought it was quite funny when I got fished, I suspect she would not have seen the humour if she got hit.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Charlie is booking along doing 22 kts probably looking like this...

a.jpg.46f06d28979834b6dcb638f8f7d5b071.jpg

Further back, Armel still has that pesty high in front while riding the AEZ fence line, but he has regained some speed finally (19kts)

20201207_061747.thumb.jpg.a92e25d802b3e2d07ae95d8a71b70c1c.jpg

JLC, the king, is still ranked 6th, but I suspect that will likely improve a click or two by the next schedule, while other skippers puzzle "how does he do it?"

20201207_064850.thumb.jpg.8dac619251ba497701bd417bdd842e03.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I got hit by a flying fish one night and it hurts. Also leaves a fishy smell on your face. My wife was behind the wheel and ducked down for some reason, adjusting the Monitor steering line I think, and a FF passed over just where her face had been. She thought it was quite funny when I got fished, I suspect she would not have seen the humour if she got hit.

I got one in the lap one night, scared the crap out of me as I was half asleep at the time. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, JL92S said:

Damien Seguin currently lying beam on to the wind doing 3kts, hopefully he can recover whatever situation he’s in, whether it’s only a broach or something worse 

The frustration of spot tracking updates. 

Did it ping the data just before he recovers and a few hours later we see him back on track or do we see him still in the same situation.  Short of an announcement from some valid source (RO, team media et al), I've come to take a wait and see approach.

As a non-foiler he was/is doing fantastic  and from my very inexperienced eye was in a good position, just needing to get past a rough weather spot.

 

Hope it is but a moment and he can get moving again.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, SCANAS said:

Cayard yelled at the pirates crew for hanging sunglasses up on the leeward side. Next time he was off watch they tacked, crew woke him up & told him to swap sides, he got the message. 

Star sailors & their manias.  
 

Joe Duplin (‘63 Star Worlds winner) came by as we were stepping mast on deck at CPYC.  Laser focused his eyes on mast rigging & sez :   ‘you should change this d-shackle on sail to that one I have over there on the kid’s Dyer. Shave  weight.’   He was dead serious too.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

Star sailors & their manias.  
 

Joe Duplin (‘63 Star Worlds winner) came by as we were stepping mast on deck at CPYC.  Laser focused his eyes on mast rigging & sez :   ‘you should change this d-shackle on sail to that one I have over there on the kid’s Dyer. Shave  weight.’   He was dead serious too.

Star Sailors?

I would overhear (not so star) guys in my class talk about spending all this time fine sanding their bottom thinking that the supposed extra .001 kt of speed it would give them would be the winning move.  Turns out that not blowing three tacks would have helped them more.  I had top sailors in a tired boat blow past me sailing in a nice crispy new one.  It didn't inspire me to get more speed from the hull or leave the lunch bag on the dock, it inspired me to figure out what they were doing and learn...and I did.

JLC is giving a Masters class in that right now, and so too Seguin (if he is okay).

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

Star sailors & their manias.  
 

Joe Duplin (‘63 Star Worlds winner) came by as we were stepping mast on deck at CPYC.  Laser focused his eyes on mast rigging & sez :   ‘you should change this d-shackle on sail to that one I have over there on the kid’s Dyer. Shave  weight.’   He was dead serious too.

You realize that was psyops, yes?

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

Star sailors & their manias.  
 

Joe Duplin (‘63 Star Worlds winner) came by as we were stepping mast on deck at CPYC.  Laser focused his eyes on mast rigging & sez :   ‘you should change this d-shackle on sail to that one I have over there on the kid’s Dyer. Shave  weight.’   He was dead serious too.

Well, there is a whole industry based on this. The fact that shackles and blocks need replacement because of wear is not sufficient so each year or so we are introduced to a round of hardware that is just a few grams lighter and many $$ more expensive.

 

1 minute ago, Bebmoumoute said:

Damien Seguin has big autopilot issues. He is currently heaving to and trying to repair.

Latest has him back at 12 knots. He lost 5th spot to JLC. Clack clack clack. Go Jean!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, chester said:

what is with that "clack, clack, clack" thing?

It's an expresion in french to start up higgledy piggledy, but he says it too often.
Jean is racing an extra ordinairy race in an extraordinairy boat that has a remarkable record.
Foncia.PNG.9f608cc225872d25a1b57ebae084d8cc.PNG

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Schakel said:

It's an expresion in french to start up higgledy piggledy, but he says it too often.
Jean is racing an extra ordinairy race in an extraordinairy boat that has a remarkable record.
Foncia.PNG.9f608cc225872d25a1b57ebae084d8cc.PNG

The big thing I notice with JLC is the level of energy he has in each of his videos, well rested despite having to coordinate a transfer etc. Compare that with the last few videos Boris sent in-Boris couldn't sleep until this latest gybe, the motion of the boat was that debilitating. I think we are going to see more conservative routings by the foilers so they can get proper rest, and this opens up some interesting possibilities with those on non-foilers and boats with smaller/fully retractable foils able to sail a more direct course...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, samc99us said:

Compare that with the last few videos Boris sent in-Boris couldn't sleep until this latest gybe, the motion of the boat was that debilitating.

Yep

Boris: "Last night I had chaotic wind shifts, so hopefully tonight will be more stable wind".

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said:

For us Neanderthals, there is always Google translate:
(Best translated line: put himself in the cloak once again and put the race in parentheses.  Seems like we do in life at times)

Since that night, the skipper of APICIL Group, currently 5 th  Vendée Globe is trying to solve autopilot problems.

At 4.30 am HF, he informed his team that his main pilot was no longer responding. The secondary driver who was to take over the time to repair the other also showed signs of weakness. He stalled several times leading to departures in the heap without material consequences. In conjunction with his shore team, Damien is looking for solutions to reconnect his main pilot and finally be able to get away from the bar of his monohull.

These technical concerns explain the surprising trajectory of the solo sailor who for a while took to the cape at the start of the afternoon to try to repair. The solutions currently implemented have not yet made it possible to relaunch the automatic piloting system but, since then, the skipper of Groupe APICIL has resumed his journey under mainsail alone and at controlled speed. Obviously, in these conditions fatigue is felt but Damien is surrounded and has only one idea in mind: repair as soon as possible!

However, he will not hesitate to put himself in the cloak once again and put the race in parentheses to try to rest and launch new operations if necessary. The skipper is focused on finding solutions. He is in control and is currently sailing in a slackening wind of around 25 knots.    

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

For us Neanderthals, there is always Google translate:
(Best translated line: put himself in the cloak once again and put the race in parentheses.  Seems like we do in life at times)

Since that night, the skipper of APICIL Group, currently 5 th  Vendée Globe is trying to solve autopilot problems.

At 4.30 am HF, he informed his team that his main pilot was no longer responding. The secondary driver who was to take over the time to repair the other also showed signs of weakness. He stalled several times leading to departures in the heap without material consequences. In conjunction with his shore team, Damien is looking for solutions to reconnect his main pilot and finally be able to get away from the bar of his monohull.

These technical concerns explain the surprising trajectory of the solo sailor who for a while took to the cape at the start of the afternoon to try to repair. The solutions currently implemented have not yet made it possible to relaunch the automatic piloting system but, since then, the skipper of Groupe APICIL has resumed his journey under mainsail alone and at controlled speed. Obviously, in these conditions fatigue is felt but Damien is surrounded and has only one idea in mind: repair as soon as possible!

However, he will not hesitate to put himself in the cloak once again and put the race in parentheses to try to rest and launch new operations if necessary. The skipper is focused on finding solutions. He is in control and is currently sailing in a slackening wind of around 25 knots.    

One of the most essential parts for a singlehanded sailer: an autopilot.
He's now in sixth position.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Schakel said:

One of the most essential parts for a singlehanded sailer: an autopilot.
He's now in sixth position.

Begs the question, how would AT steer if his AP went down? Maybe his fully enclosed copy has better visibility than I'm thinking?

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, [email protected] said:

Vidéo : pose du foil tribord sur l'Occitane, l'IMOCA d'Armel Tripon - Voile  & Moteur

I'd say they'd be clear of  the water in most light conditions. 

I think that one of the other advantages of having the foils entering the hull so high, compared to other boats, is that in case of encounter with UFO, and god forbid, damage to the foil case/hull connection (just like we saw on Arkea Paprec), it does not mean immediate water ingress. The opening being so high, you could hope that it would stay out of the water most of the time (at least by sailing more conservatively) and easier access for repair from the outside.

Regarding Tripon weather situation, according to the wind overlay on the official tracker, he should benefit from a small LP system spuning off South Africa, pushing the windhole along the ZEA in front of him and maintaining moderate winds, on a broadreach for quite some time, at least until the corner of the ZEA, before Kerguelen Islands... Not too bad.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/6/2020 at 2:03 AM, terrafirma said:

Whatever he got he sure deserved it..! Friends for life. Reckon Jean would do well in a serious drinking session...! :P

Reckon JLC would do well in a serious drinking session? I can personally attest to that but it was the supplementary party favors (at that particular encounter) that was his downfall...

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, chester said:

what is with that "clack, clack, clack" thing?

Its because of the stabilized handheld cameras he uses... to make the camera turn 180 degrees you have to click three times on a button, hence the clac clac clac, he had a hard time getting to grips with it at the beginning, around 2005 i think, so he voiced the procedure to make sure he was doing it right... since then its been one of his staples.

The one he has this year seems to have face detection tracking... think that's what happened in one of the first videos after rescuing Kevin, he was probably turning the camera handle trying to get Kevin into the frame but the face detection feature was keeping the camera oriented towards jean, that made him say "why does it keep looking at me"... he had to switch the camera 180 degrees to be able to get kevin into the frame...

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

What would really make this interesting is if there had been a non-foiling Manuard scow in the mix.  The Classe 40 scows showed speed deltas against the conventional boats very similar to what the foiling 60s do.   With so many foiler now out, but JLC hanging in the pack, it would make for a pretty interesting compare/contrast.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Message from Clarisse Crémer ( Banque Populaire X ) on Monday December 7th.

“When I stick my head out, it's like the connections aren't really making in my brain. The sea is like in the movies, well rather like in those documentaries on the southern seas, or in fact it is just exactly like the images of the Vendée Globe that I watched before leaving, in search of mental preparation!

For 24 hours I have finally arrived in the deep end, in this universe that I dreaded a lot while going to seek it. 

The Indian Ocean in all its splendor (well certainly not in all its splendor because the conditions are still largely livable but in a splendor which is quite sufficient for me), a completely disorderly swell of 5 meters, wind oscillating between 30 and 35 knots, the boat which comes to a complete stop between 2 badly stowed waves to spin at 28 knots on the next slide ... a chaos that is felt in every carbon fold of Banque Populaire X. 

The waves sometimes strike from the full side and in my bunk I cannot believe the strength of my great companion. Come on my boy, keep it up, it's good, I need you! 

I risk myself from time to time to stick my head outside, the sails are as they should be? The ends do not drag in the water? Everything has a normal head? At night it's a balancing act with a flashlight through the portholes to try to see something between two waves that submerge the boat. We are very happy when all is well because we actually have no desire to go outside. The waves are scary, the colors are intimidating and even this surprising and perpetual presence of sea birds is not enough to reassure me. 

Yesterday I burned myself through the full range of sails on my boat: A6.5, FRO, j2, j3 ... Today, I'm no longer in groundhog mode waiting for the winter to pass! Good thing the wind does not really require a new maneuver. Finally, yes, he invented a new little game: the soft at 20 knots between two squalls at 36 knots. I could have fun going to tuck my sails for 5 minutes to shock them for the next grain but that only half enchants me. I already lost a while ago by leaving to the pile after having taken a little too long to shock. There is no need to titillate me Eole, I won't come to tuck in if I know it is to better breathe in the sails 30 seconds later. Flute! "

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

For us Neanderthals, there is always Google translate:
(Best translated line: put himself in the cloak once again and put the race in parentheses.  Seems like we do in life at times)

Since that night, the skipper of APICIL Group, currently 5 th  Vendée Globe is trying to solve autopilot problems.

At 4.30 am HF, he informed his team that his main pilot was no longer responding. The secondary driver who was to take over the time to repair the other also showed signs of weakness. He stalled several times leading to departures in the heap without material consequences. In conjunction with his shore team, Damien is looking for solutions to reconnect his main pilot and finally be able to get away from the bar of his monohull.

These technical concerns explain the surprising trajectory of the solo sailor who for a while took to the cape at the start of the afternoon to try to repair. The solutions currently implemented have not yet made it possible to relaunch the automatic piloting system but, since then, the skipper of Groupe APICIL has resumed his journey under mainsail alone and at controlled speed. Obviously, in these conditions fatigue is felt but Damien is surrounded and has only one idea in mind: repair as soon as possible!

However, he will not hesitate to put himself in the cloak once again and put the race in parentheses to try to rest and launch new operations if necessary. The skipper is focused on finding solutions. He is in control and is currently sailing in a slackening wind of around 25 knots.    

Deepl is way better than Google translate

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Schnick said:

What would really make this interesting is if there had been a non-foiling Manuard scow in the mix.  The Classe 40 scows showed speed deltas against the conventional boats very similar to what the foiling 60s do.   With so many foiler now out, but JLC hanging in the pack, it would make for a pretty interesting compare/contrast.

just enlarge it if Vendee rules changed a bit. :D The most winning boat in 650.

A Thought on 40 "Scow" shown on Front Page... - Ocean Racing Anarchy -  Sailing Anarchy Forums

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/3/2020 at 11:47 PM, festus said:

 

Is it possible to use the polars to simulate a transpac race?  Not sure how to get historical weather for the race date, but it would be interesting to know what a modern IMOCA potential would be for the down wind slide. There was a video on Comanche’s transatlantic record run where Stan Honey talked about routing weather for years of historical data. Pretty cool. 
 

 

Yes that is possible. The weather routing plugin can utilize the wind averages and current data from the Climatology plug in. So you can do a weather routing (pro forma) for winds and currents for a certain month using applicable polars. But I don't have time do this this.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Refreshed for the latest sched update and it looks like Damien is heading in the right direction and moving decently (12 kts).  I do hope he can get that AP fixed.  He has been a lurking non-foiler that has been really hanging well in the top 5 (now 6).  He's not gotten the same overall attention of either JLC or foilers, but he's been sailing a solid race.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I can believe it can be fast but it is not a beauty.

 

Ian Lipinski and Adrien Hardy did 415 nm in 24 hrs during the last TJV. While I don't think the relevancy of the IMOCA class will decline anytime soon - for the upcoming various ocean race startup opportunities and the relatively restricted class 40 rules without carbon composites, canting keels, relatively cost effective rig/sails  - there's obviously still a lot of nautical architecture to be learned. 

MjAxOTExNjBmOGY4ZTNhZWJmNzJmMzM0NTk4NWE4ZjkxY2VlZDI.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

It also looks like Isabelle has started to fine a groove again.  She has again passed Pedote and sits only @120 nm behind Boris (bow to bow distance).  I watched this before where she starts to grind down a boat in front.  Over 24 hrs it looks like they are closely matched so this one may take longer and (I guess) depend on routing decisions and how to set up for the next wave coming from behind.  Still amazing how close the racing is in 2-11.  I love this way more then UFO take downs.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Weather update + AIS positions

After updating Anaconda Navigator and playing with Python for half a day, I succeeded in running the AIS-script posted up thread earlier and import the positions for the first 8 boats into OpenCPN. Compared the reported 17:30 positions with their AIS-positions. As the timestamps for AIS differ from the 17:30 timestamp and benchmark, there are differences. For some boats these delta's are bigger than I can explain atm. Either the AIS scraping is not accurate enough for some boats, or their reported positions do not match the 17:30 timestamp. My guess is the latter, as AIS does not lie and there are almost no other boats in the area that could trigger a false AIS-report. And AIS speed and heading confirm it's a VG-boat when checking the offical tracker.

DELTA AIS-position versus Reported 17:30 in NM and time:

  • Dalin 9 nm and 35 minutes (seems accurate)
  • Burton 23 nm and 87 minutes (not OK) 
  • Seguin 36 nm and 29 minutes (not OK)
  • Herrmann 48 nm and 88 minutes (not OK)
  • Le Cam 53 nm and 42 minutes (not OK)
  • Bestaven 25 nm and 55 minutes (not OK)
  • Ruyant 18 nm and 51 minutes (seems accurate)
  • Dutreux 24 nm and 35 minutes (not OK)

Now to the weather routing. In the top-8 boats are 3 without a foiler, that is not bad. Conditions (e.g. sea state) have not been ideal for foiling lately. As the sea seems to flatten a bit around 3 meters for Dalin and Ruyant, these foilers should be able to get their extra advantage until the next LP comes in Tuesday. If sailing on the good bow for Ruyant.

I changed the virtual waypoint towards Cape Leeuwin, 70 nm above the AEZ. After 120 East the AEZ moves to the south, so this corner is a natural waypoint. Adjusted polars for Dutreux and Seguin for non-foiling.

ECMWF and GFS align, more or less, as usual. Not guaranteed on a boat level.

Routing table is in pic 1. Rough rides again predicted due to the new wind coing in from the west for most boats. Dalin, Ruyant and Bestaven have very high max winds in the 40s and 50s kts. I can understand that they want to stay out of this in order to keep the boat in one piece. A detour more to the north could be necessary. See pic 3 for routing Dalin with max 35 kts wind and max 5 meter swell. His heading of 83 degrees falls in lign with Dalin routing around the heavy stuff. The blue line is routing without wind or wave constraints.

Also, the ETA's to the virtual WP are within 13 hours arrival after Dalin for the chasing 7 boats. Pressure stays on the leader.  

 

 

routing table 071220.png

Dalin 071220.png

Burton 071220.png

Dalin 2nd routing avoiding heavy weather 071220.png

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I got hit by a flying fish one night and it hurts. Also leaves a fishy smell on your face. My wife was behind the wheel and ducked down for some reason, adjusting the Monitor steering line I think, and a FF passed over just where her face had been. She thought it was quite funny when I got fished, I suspect she would not have seen the humour if she got hit.

It hurts but you can get revenge by eating them.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Herman said:

Weather update + AIS positions

After updating Anaconda Navigator and playing with Python for half a day, I succeeded in running the AIS-script posted up thread earlier and import the positions for the first 8 boats into OpenCPN. Compared the reported 17:30 positions with their AIS-positions. As the timestamps for AIS differ from the 17:30 timestamp and benchmark, there are differences. For some boats these delta's are bigger than I can explain atm. Either the AIS scraping is not accurate enough for some boats, or their reported positions do not match the 17:30 timestamp. My guess is the latter, as AIS does not lie and there are almost no other boats in the area that could trigger a false AIS-report. And AIS speed and heading confirm it's a VG-boat when checking the offical tracker.

DELTA AIS-position versus Reported 17:30 in NM and time:

  • Dalin 9 nm and 35 minutes (seems accurate)
  • Burton 23 nm and 87 minutes (not OK) 
  • Seguin 36 nm and 29 minutes (not OK)
  • Herrmann 48 nm and 88 minutes (not OK)
  • Le Cam 53 nm and 42 minutes (not OK)
  • Bestaven 25 nm and 55 minutes (not OK)
  • Ruyant 18 nm and 51 minutes (seems accurate)
  • Dutreux 24 nm and 35 minutes (not OK)

 

General opinion is that the AIS data is more accurate than the official tracker.  At Burton's average 4h speed of 13.9kts, 13.9*87/60 = 20.2 nm, hence 23nm seems reasonable no?

Some of the others are not of course, Dutreux for example would have to be going 36.92 kts to cover 24nm in 35min, maybe his position reports were confused with Sodebo :blink:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Radio interview of Maxime Sorel; it is on the French side of the website, but not the English side. From what he says, it is tough... And regarding problems and failures, when it rains, it pours...

The skipper of V&B-Mayenne was on the radio call this morning; he explains the tough conditions he has encountered in the past few days and how he manages the problems on board.

" I have never seen a sea state like this! It is very hard to sail, the boat slams, then gets off in an overspeed surf. For safety reasons, I preferred to slow down, and reduce sails. RIght now, I have J3 and 2 reefs in the main. Wind is between 20 and 25 knots, with more than 40 knots in the squalls. The sea state is very disorganized, sometimes it gets a little bit better, but right now, it's nuts. There is a very big swell, and if you do not go fast enough, the waves break on the transom. It is not very comfortable, and it is going to continue, unfortunately.

It's tiring, we have had strong winds for 10 days. Last 24 hrs, you can sail at the speed you want to, otherwise you risk to break the boat. According to the forecast, we should get this type of wind for another 3 days. So we have to cope with it; it should get a bit better afterwards.

I have been told that deep South will be gray, cold and humid, and with a large swell, but they did not tell me that the sea state would be that shitty! The wind shift is so brutal between before the front and after the front that, of course, we end up with crossed seas.

I have spent last night to DETUNE the boat, trying to slow down. I had 3 reefs in the main and the J3 and we had surfs at 29 knots... There is not much more to do; once you reduced sails as much as possible, you just suffer. It is very weird, it is a discovery for me. You have to decide between the race, sailing fast, and keep the boat and yourself safe, so you do not break anything but still keep some speed so you do not get caught by the waves, because it is dangerous.

Last night, I did not really sleep; I was ready to jump on the sheets for the squalls. And last evening, at sunset, I decided to change cloth and wash myself; I had to make water and then, impossible to start the engine. I spent 2 hours working on it, trying to understand what was going on. The boats are continuously heeled right now, so you cannot turn on the engine with the normal water intake configuration; on my boat, the water intake is near the propeller shaft, so I am using the "schnorchel" used to fill up the ballast as a water intake for the engine. But since I have been going too fast, some water got into the engine. So I hade to open up the engine to get rid of the water and restart it. While I was working on that, the boat launched on a surf and I got a problem with my hydrogenerator, which is my second source of electricity on board. I lost all hydraulic oil on the port side hydrogenerator. So I had to deal with that as well. I was completely drained. And then the following night, I had to deal with squalls with winds up to 52 knots. I am knackerred. I don't look at boat speed anymore. I am going to bed and I will see later on...

Today, my life is ruled by the weather systems; I am planning maneuvers in so many hours forward, and in the mean time, i try to rest, to eat, and I wait for the next fuck-up to happen... I no longer think in days by instead in tasks on my backlog.

  • Like 10
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I can believe it can be fast but it is not a beauty.

 

I like it. Just have to get used

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Herman said:

Yes that is possible. The weather routing plugin can utilize the wind averages and current data from the Climatology plug in. So you can do a weather routing (pro forma) for winds and currents for a certain month using applicable polars. But I don't have time do this this.

You can download historical data from sites like Meteoblue.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Poor Pip, and the others. Now they have to decide whether to stack the watertight emergency container too.

Quote

Article C.3.20 (v) of the Class Rules Imoca 2021 v2.2 specifies that the watertight emergency container must be sealed in place.

Article C.3.20 (v) is removed. Therefore the seal can be removed.

[aside] Only a week after KE's life raft troubles. Didn't know the Class Rules could be changed so quickly.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Laurent said:

impossible to start the engine. I spent 2 hours working on it, trying to understand what was going on. The boats are continuously heeled right now, so you cannot turn on the engine with the normal water intake configuration; on my boat, the water intake is near the propeller shaft, so I am using the "schnorchel" used to fill up the ballast as a water intake for the engine

They moved the intake to the keel on the foilers to avoid this exact problem, didn't they?

Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Herman said:

Weather update + AIS positions

After updating Anaconda Navigator and playing with Python for half a day, I succeeded in running the AIS-script posted up thread earlier and import the positions for the first 8 boats into OpenCPN. Compared the reported 17:30 positions with their AIS-positions. As the timestamps for AIS differ from the 17:30 timestamp and benchmark, there are differences. For some boats these delta's are bigger than I can explain atm. Either the AIS scraping is not accurate enough for some boats, or their reported positions do not match the 17:30 timestamp. My guess is the latter, as AIS does not lie and there are almost no other boats in the area that could trigger a false AIS-report. And AIS speed and heading confirm it's a VG-boat when checking the offical tracker.

DELTA AIS-position versus Reported 17:30 in NM and time:

  • Dalin 9 nm and 35 minutes (seems accurate)
  • Burton 23 nm and 87 minutes (not OK) 
  • Seguin 36 nm and 29 minutes (not OK)
  • Herrmann 48 nm and 88 minutes (not OK)
  • Le Cam 53 nm and 42 minutes (not OK)
  • Bestaven 25 nm and 55 minutes (not OK)
  • Ruyant 18 nm and 51 minutes (seems accurate)
  • Dutreux 24 nm and 35 minutes (not OK)

Now to the weather routing. In the top-8 boats are 3 without a foiler, that is not bad. Conditions (e.g. sea state) have not been ideal for foiling lately. As the sea seems to flatten a bit around 3 meters for Dalin and Ruyant, these foilers should be able to get their extra advantage until the next LP comes in Tuesday. If sailing on the good bow for Ruyant.

I changed the virtual waypoint towards Cape Leeuwin, 70 nm above the AEZ. After 120 East the AEZ moves to the south, so this corner is a natural waypoint. Adjusted polars for Dutreux and Seguin for non-foiling.

ECMWF and GFS align, more or less, as usual. Not guaranteed on a boat level.

Routing table is in pic 1. Rough rides again predicted due to the new wind coing in from the west for most boats. Dalin, Ruyant and Bestaven have very high max winds in the 40s and 50s kts. I can understand that they want to stay out of this in order to keep the boat in one piece. A detour more to the north could be necessary. See pic 3 for routing Dalin with max 35 kts wind and max 5 meter swell. His heading of 83 degrees falls in lign with Dalin routing around the heavy stuff. The blue line is routing without wind or wave constraints.

Also, the ETA's to the virtual WP are within 13 hours arrival after Dalin for the chasing 7 boats. Pressure stays on the leader.  

 

 

routing table 071220.png

Dalin 071220.png

Burton 071220.png

Dalin 2nd routing avoiding heavy weather 071220.png

Thanks Herman!

Am I reading your table right? Are you predicting 6 boats with 1 1/2 hrs at your virtual waypoint, at the corner of the ZEA, East of Cape Leeuwin??? That would be awesome for the interest of the race...

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Laurent said:

Thanks Herman!

Am I reading your table right? Are you predicting 6 boats with 1 1/2 hrs at your virtual waypoint, at the corner of the ZEA, East of Cape Leeuwin??? That would be awesome for the interest of the race...

I'm getting very similar numbers 

 

closeDelta.PNG

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DVV said:

I like it. Just have to get used

I am too old for that ... and get off my lawn. You look at something like Endeavour and it is pure boat porn. Forget the practicality and cost, if you want to be practical take an airplane. We were in anchorage in Antigua when a powerboat around 110' came in and anchored and then a J-boat came in and rafted off its 'tender' for the night. Maybe you sleep on the powerboat where there is a/c, who knows. I could not imagine how much a week charter would have been.

image.png.55f5cb5fdb1314e4e7df0dd4a184d12e.png

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, pbenett said:

Looks like Burton is having some trouble...

Apicil also slow, perhaps their southern routing was too much for the conditions.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Laurent said:

I had to make water and then, impossible to start the engine. I spent 2 hours working on it, trying to understand what was going on. The boats are continuously heeled right now, so you cannot turn on the engine with the normal water intake configuration; on my boat, the water intake is near the propeller shaft, so I am using the "schnorchel" used to fill up the ballast as a water intake for the engine. But since I have been going too fast, some water got into the engine. So I hade to open up the engine to get rid of the water and restart it.

Needs this like hole in the head and maybe very lucky.

Doesn't have keel raw water inlet so bypassing that using water ballast inlet line. That's common workaround in heavy conditions. 

All that has NO impact on engine starting just running without overheating.

"But since I have been going too fast, some water got into the engine"

Raw water circulation and coolant circulation seperate.

So appears ballast water inlet volume/pressure overwhelmed exhaust mixer and water entered engine via exhaust valves. 

"So I hade to open up the engine to get rid of the water and restart it."

He then had to drain/pump out water from cylinders I presume by pulling out injectors. Bastard of a job tied up let alone at sea on a surfboard. 

Lucky engine didn't hydro lock.

Think water which doesn't compress (unlike air) greater than the volume of the cylinder at its minimum (end of the piston's stroke) sitting on top of piston.

When you know.

When starting motor won't budge. Burnt out starter if you don't notice.

If this happens when engine going.

Piston connecting rods say goodbye, maybe fractured crank, head, block, crankcase or bearing damage. Throw engine away.

Sounded though he had a 'soft stop' when running.

One simple paragraph in a report hides a lot of pain and agony and a potential race end.

Hats off.

Bent connecting rod.

300px-Bent_connecting_rod_1.jpeg

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Needs this like hole in the head and maybe very lucky.

Doesn't have keel raw water inlet so bypassing that using water ballast inlet line. That's common workaround in heavy conditions. 

All that has NO impact on engine starting just running without overheating.

"But since I have been going too fast, some water got into the engine"

Raw water circulation and coolant circulation seperate.

So appears ballast water inlet volume/pressure overwhelmed exhaust mixer and water entered engine via exhaust valves. 

He then had to drain it, I presume by pulling out injectors.

Lucky engine didn't hydro lock.

Think water which doesn't compress (unlike air) greater than the volume of the cylinder at its minimum (end of the piston's stroke) sitting on top of piston.

Ian assuming he found when stated motor wouldn't budge. Lucky didn't burn it out. 

If this happens when engine going.

Piston connecting rods say goodbye, maybe fractured crank, head, block, crankcase or bearing damage. Throw engine away.

Bent connecting rod.

300px-Bent_connecting_rod_1.jpeg

Been there...

3.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Snowden said:
14 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

He then had to drain it, I presume by pulling out injectors.

you can do this with the decompression lever, can't you?

They stopped including those and a crank handle on marine diesel engines just after the war. :D

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the explanation.

I knew that they had a different intake for the raw water when heeling hard, or now, I guess foiling as well... But I still couldn't understand how raw water could get "inside the engine" (dans le moteur)... I guess the only option is indeed through the exhaust line and back into the engine through an open exhaust valve. It is either that or a much more serious damage as a blown seal or gasket somewhere in the engine...

He was indeed lucky that he did not hydrolock and broke something. I guess one of the chambers filled up with engine stopped and the starter could not even turn the engine.

 

Trivia question. How do you empty a car engine with hydrolock because you drove through a ford and sucked water through the air intake?

5 buddies in a van, in the UK (rental car...); one of those small country roads that can have a stream running through in heavy rain. We try to go through it at very low speed and go through... and the engine stalls 10 seconds later... What we did not know was that the airfilter intake on this car was very low in the engine compartment. How do you fix it without breaking anything?

You put it in 5th gear (manual transmission) for low torque and 4 guys pushing it... backwards. We were able to push enough water back through the INTAKE valve to eventually start it back...

  • Like 10
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

They stopped including those and a crank handle on marine diesel engines just after the war. :D

5 minutes ago, Snowden said:

you mean to say my 1GM10 isn't cutting edge technology??

 

No crank handle...This is where someone posts on how to use snatch blocks, a line and gybing to start an engine with no power or has a shot starter motor. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Laurent said:

You put it in 5th gear (manual transmission) for low torque and 4 guys pushing it... backwards. We were able to push enough water back through the INTAKE valve to eventually start it back...

Bookmarked. Don't pull injectors.....sail backwards quickly. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Herman said:

Yes that is possible. The weather routing plugin can utilize the wind averages and current data from the Climatology plug in. So you can do a weather routing (pro forma) for winds and currents for a certain month using applicable polars. But I don't have time do this this.

Alternatively you can download gribs for the actual days from various reanalysis data sets. E.g. https://cds.climate.copernicus.eu/#!/homehttps://apps.ecmwf.int/datasets/https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/data-access/model-data/model-datasets/climate-forecast-system-version2-cfsv2

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

No crank handle...This is where someone posts on how to use snatch blocks, a line and gybing to start an engine with no power or has a shot starter motor. 

I had a Volvo engine in my only new boat around 1982. It had decompression levers and a crank. Even used it a couple of times.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Tune in today's  Vendée Live and guest the designer Sam Manuard, responsible for Armel Tripon's L'Occitane en Provence.

His first VG but won the Multi50 class in the last Route du Rhum.

Could be interesting design listen with leaders conditions and this in mind.

- A "scow" = more sea state friendly. 

- Pretty sure his foils are fully retractable.

And a random he also one of the few with a wind generator. Why I bloody don't know?

yysw297250.jpg

J S - I think 4 boats have had serious problems with hydro - generators so far. Mostly ripping right off the back of the boat. Since that is a repeat of previous problems with these units, I'd venture to guess that mounts have been up-engineered for loads. But the stress shock of units dipping in & out of fast water might have been under estimated. And one unit seems to be leaking hyd fluid rapidly. So given faster boat speeds, flying up out of the water, wind gens seem a logical system to revert to. And there aren't many kamikazi sea birds around flying into the blades

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Snowden said:

cranking it for two hours with water gushing into the seacock at 29 knots will do that

And maybe a few wipe outs will affect flow in all directions...

Jacko, sailing backwards, noted.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, DVV said:

Are you implying that they have some way to avoid them, or that what is considered an UFO collision is in fact something else?

I don't know obviously but if Charlie get's all the way around and wins without hitting anything he will be mighty lucky or perhaps he knows some people in very high places? :D

Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I had a Volvo engine in my only new boat around 1982. It had decompression levers and a crank. Even used it a couple of times.

Ditto on the Nicholson 32 we had on Lake Erie in the early eighties. The old crank pulled us out of a number of jams when the Volvo needed a nudge. Weird, I had just mentioned this on the SSS sight.

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, ctdriver said:

My raw water cooled 1GM10 was the most reliable engine I've owned

Heard that.  When I installed a 1GM10 in my previous Laser 28 and first fired it up.  I stood there listening to that thump, thump ,thump and realized I had the biggest *^&% eating grin on my face ever.  Thing ran like a champ.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, longy said:

J S - I think 4 boats have had serious problems with hydro - generators so far. Mostly ripping right off the back of the boat. Since that is a repeat of previous problems with these units, I'd venture to guess that mounts have been up-engineered for loads. But the stress shock of units dipping in & out of fast water might have been under estimated. And one unit seems to be leaking hyd fluid rapidly. So given faster boat speeds, flying up out of the water, wind gens seem a logical system to revert to. And there aren't many kamikazi sea birds around flying into the blades

The hydrogenerator mounts really look shite, I was just commenting on one the other day to the guys fitting on to a boat that will be in a race in a couple of year. ... At least they are fuse to stop the generator ripping the back out of the boat! 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It isn’t Watt & Sea’s fault - it’s been happening for as long as Watt and Sea products have been in the VG. The skippers who rely on it but don’t take it out when they’re easily over 25 knots are engaging in wishful thinking. 
 

Armel worked with Watt and Sea to try and make a turbine tunnel in BP last cycle - not sure what came of it 

Link to post
Share on other sites