TheDragon 905 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Snowden said: lol. having said that it's not so unusual to get 'tacked' when you are off watch Reminds me of a story told by the director of the biggest hospital in Soweto back in the day, Baragwanath, who was a family friend. Got sick one day and admitted overnight and when woken up at 5AM for the regular nurse shift change was thoroughly pissed off! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheDragon 905 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 hour ago, troll99 said: Are you kidding? Steer clear of UFO? How would you do that? Perhaps his/her/its/their forum name gives you a hint (just kidding TF!) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JL92S 426 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Damien Seguin currently lying beam on to the wind doing 3kts, hopefully he can recover whatever situation he’s in, whether it’s only a broach or something worse Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bristol-Cruiser 1,375 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 2 hours ago, BozoC said: Cannot believe what I have just seen on the french TV M6; they were interviewing JLC who is very disappointed. With his friend Kevin, they decided to make a joke and they made up the story of Jean being hurt by a flying fish ... with red stuff on his cheek. Unfortunately, nobody understood the joke and he received ton of sympathy messages. On a more serious side of the race, he is worried about the beating the boat received so far and will probably slow down a bit until he can check everything. I got hit by a flying fish one night and it hurts. Also leaves a fishy smell on your face. My wife was behind the wheel and ducked down for some reason, adjusting the Monitor steering line I think, and a FF passed over just where her face had been. She thought it was quite funny when I got fished, I suspect she would not have seen the humour if she got hit. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Varan 2,135 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Charlie is booking along doing 22 kts probably looking like this... Further back, Armel still has that pesty high in front while riding the AEZ fence line, but he has regained some speed finally (19kts) JLC, the king, is still ranked 6th, but I suspect that will likely improve a click or two by the next schedule, while other skippers puzzle "how does he do it?" 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Buck Turgidson 76 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said: I got hit by a flying fish one night and it hurts. Also leaves a fishy smell on your face. My wife was behind the wheel and ducked down for some reason, adjusting the Monitor steering line I think, and a FF passed over just where her face had been. She thought it was quite funny when I got fished, I suspect she would not have seen the humour if she got hit. I got one in the lap one night, scared the crap out of me as I was half asleep at the time. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bucc5062 220 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 2 hours ago, JL92S said: Damien Seguin currently lying beam on to the wind doing 3kts, hopefully he can recover whatever situation he’s in, whether it’s only a broach or something worse The frustration of spot tracking updates. Did it ping the data just before he recovers and a few hours later we see him back on track or do we see him still in the same situation. Short of an announcement from some valid source (RO, team media et al), I've come to take a wait and see approach. As a non-foiler he was/is doing fantastic and from my very inexperienced eye was in a good position, just needing to get past a rough weather spot. Hope it is but a moment and he can get moving again. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blunderfull 681 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 5 hours ago, SCANAS said: Cayard yelled at the pirates crew for hanging sunglasses up on the leeward side. Next time he was off watch they tacked, crew woke him up & told him to swap sides, he got the message. Star sailors & their manias. Joe Duplin (‘63 Star Worlds winner) came by as we were stepping mast on deck at CPYC. Laser focused his eyes on mast rigging & sez : ‘you should change this d-shackle on sail to that one I have over there on the kid’s Dyer. Shave weight.’ He was dead serious too. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bucc5062 220 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, blunderfull said: Star sailors & their manias. Joe Duplin (‘63 Star Worlds winner) came by as we were stepping mast on deck at CPYC. Laser focused his eyes on mast rigging & sez : ‘you should change this d-shackle on sail to that one I have over there on the kid’s Dyer. Shave weight.’ He was dead serious too. Star Sailors? I would overhear (not so star) guys in my class talk about spending all this time fine sanding their bottom thinking that the supposed extra .001 kt of speed it would give them would be the winning move. Turns out that not blowing three tacks would have helped them more. I had top sailors in a tired boat blow past me sailing in a nice crispy new one. It didn't inspire me to get more speed from the hull or leave the lunch bag on the dock, it inspired me to figure out what they were doing and learn...and I did. JLC is giving a Masters class in that right now, and so too Seguin (if he is okay). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blunderfull 681 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, bucc5062 said: JLC is giving a Masters class Indeed. I’m hanging on every move he makes on board & his off hand comments. The best. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crashdog 195 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 17 minutes ago, blunderfull said: Star sailors & their manias. Joe Duplin (‘63 Star Worlds winner) came by as we were stepping mast on deck at CPYC. Laser focused his eyes on mast rigging & sez : ‘you should change this d-shackle on sail to that one I have over there on the kid’s Dyer. Shave weight.’ He was dead serious too. You realize that was psyops, yes? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blunderfull 681 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, crashdog said: You realize that was psyops, yes? Umm yea. And that it was a former crew of his’ boat, I think it was a top-dog move he’d done a 100x with RS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bebmoumoute 1,123 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Damien Seguin has big autopilot issues. He is currently heaving to and trying to repair. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AnotherSailor 451 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 25 minutes ago, blunderfull said: Star sailors & their manias. Joe Duplin (‘63 Star Worlds winner) came by as we were stepping mast on deck at CPYC. Laser focused his eyes on mast rigging & sez : ‘you should change this d-shackle on sail to that one I have over there on the kid’s Dyer. Shave weight.’ He was dead serious too. Well, there is a whole industry based on this. The fact that shackles and blocks need replacement because of wear is not sufficient so each year or so we are introduced to a round of hardware that is just a few grams lighter and many $$ more expensive. 1 minute ago, Bebmoumoute said: Damien Seguin has big autopilot issues. He is currently heaving to and trying to repair. Latest has him back at 12 knots. He lost 5th spot to JLC. Clack clack clack. Go Jean! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chester 1,253 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 what is with that "clack, clack, clack" thing? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AnotherSailor 451 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, chester said: what is with that "clack, clack, clack" thing? You have to watch all the onboard videos of Le Cam of the 2016 edition to get a full appreciation for this line. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Schakel 262 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, chester said: what is with that "clack, clack, clack" thing? It's an expresion in french to start up higgledy piggledy, but he says it too often. Jean is racing an extra ordinairy race in an extraordinairy boat that has a remarkable record. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F18 Sailor 327 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, Schakel said: It's an expresion in french to start up higgledy piggledy, but he says it too often. Jean is racing an extra ordinairy race in an extraordinairy boat that has a remarkable record. The big thing I notice with JLC is the level of energy he has in each of his videos, well rested despite having to coordinate a transfer etc. Compare that with the last few videos Boris sent in-Boris couldn't sleep until this latest gybe, the motion of the boat was that debilitating. I think we are going to see more conservative routings by the foilers so they can get proper rest, and this opens up some interesting possibilities with those on non-foilers and boats with smaller/fully retractable foils able to sail a more direct course... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bebmoumoute 1,123 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 https://www.vendeeglobe.org/fr/actualites/20873/damien-seguin-aux-prises-avec-des-problemes-de-pilote-automatique Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OPAL 211 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, samc99us said: Compare that with the last few videos Boris sent in-Boris couldn't sleep until this latest gybe, the motion of the boat was that debilitating. Yep Boris: "Last night I had chaotic wind shifts, so hopefully tonight will be more stable wind". 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bucc5062 220 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said: https://www.vendeeglobe.org/fr/actualites/20873/damien-seguin-aux-prises-avec-des-problemes-de-pilote-automatique For us Neanderthals, there is always Google translate: (Best translated line: put himself in the cloak once again and put the race in parentheses. Seems like we do in life at times) Since that night, the skipper of APICIL Group, currently 5 th Vendée Globe is trying to solve autopilot problems. At 4.30 am HF, he informed his team that his main pilot was no longer responding. The secondary driver who was to take over the time to repair the other also showed signs of weakness. He stalled several times leading to departures in the heap without material consequences. In conjunction with his shore team, Damien is looking for solutions to reconnect his main pilot and finally be able to get away from the bar of his monohull. These technical concerns explain the surprising trajectory of the solo sailor who for a while took to the cape at the start of the afternoon to try to repair. The solutions currently implemented have not yet made it possible to relaunch the automatic piloting system but, since then, the skipper of Groupe APICIL has resumed his journey under mainsail alone and at controlled speed. Obviously, in these conditions fatigue is felt but Damien is surrounded and has only one idea in mind: repair as soon as possible! However, he will not hesitate to put himself in the cloak once again and put the race in parentheses to try to rest and launch new operations if necessary. The skipper is focused on finding solutions. He is in control and is currently sailing in a slackening wind of around 25 knots. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Schakel 262 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, bucc5062 said: For us Neanderthals, there is always Google translate: (Best translated line: put himself in the cloak once again and put the race in parentheses. Seems like we do in life at times) Since that night, the skipper of APICIL Group, currently 5 th Vendée Globe is trying to solve autopilot problems. At 4.30 am HF, he informed his team that his main pilot was no longer responding. The secondary driver who was to take over the time to repair the other also showed signs of weakness. He stalled several times leading to departures in the heap without material consequences. In conjunction with his shore team, Damien is looking for solutions to reconnect his main pilot and finally be able to get away from the bar of his monohull. These technical concerns explain the surprising trajectory of the solo sailor who for a while took to the cape at the start of the afternoon to try to repair. The solutions currently implemented have not yet made it possible to relaunch the automatic piloting system but, since then, the skipper of Groupe APICIL has resumed his journey under mainsail alone and at controlled speed. Obviously, in these conditions fatigue is felt but Damien is surrounded and has only one idea in mind: repair as soon as possible! However, he will not hesitate to put himself in the cloak once again and put the race in parentheses to try to rest and launch new operations if necessary. The skipper is focused on finding solutions. He is in control and is currently sailing in a slackening wind of around 25 knots. One of the most essential parts for a singlehanded sailer: an autopilot. He's now in sixth position. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bebmoumoute 1,123 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F18 Sailor 327 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, Schakel said: One of the most essential parts for a singlehanded sailer: an autopilot. He's now in sixth position. Begs the question, how would AT steer if his AP went down? Maybe his fully enclosed copy has better visibility than I'm thinking? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent 2,002 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 6 hours ago, [email protected] said: I'd say they'd be clear of the water in most light conditions. I think that one of the other advantages of having the foils entering the hull so high, compared to other boats, is that in case of encounter with UFO, and god forbid, damage to the foil case/hull connection (just like we saw on Arkea Paprec), it does not mean immediate water ingress. The opening being so high, you could hope that it would stay out of the water most of the time (at least by sailing more conservatively) and easier access for repair from the outside. Regarding Tripon weather situation, according to the wind overlay on the official tracker, he should benefit from a small LP system spuning off South Africa, pushing the windhole along the ZEA in front of him and maintaining moderate winds, on a broadreach for quite some time, at least until the corner of the ZEA, before Kerguelen Islands... Not too bad. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rasputin22 3,502 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 On 12/6/2020 at 2:03 AM, terrafirma said: Whatever he got he sure deserved it..! Friends for life. Reckon Jean would do well in a serious drinking session...! Reckon JLC would do well in a serious drinking session? I can personally attest to that but it was the supplementary party favors (at that particular encounter) that was his downfall... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ant1 357 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 hour ago, chester said: what is with that "clack, clack, clack" thing? Its because of the stabilized handheld cameras he uses... to make the camera turn 180 degrees you have to click three times on a button, hence the clac clac clac, he had a hard time getting to grips with it at the beginning, around 2005 i think, so he voiced the procedure to make sure he was doing it right... since then its been one of his staples. The one he has this year seems to have face detection tracking... think that's what happened in one of the first videos after rescuing Kevin, he was probably turning the camera handle trying to get Kevin into the frame but the face detection feature was keeping the camera oriented towards jean, that made him say "why does it keep looking at me"... he had to switch the camera 180 degrees to be able to get kevin into the frame... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Schnick 53 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 What would really make this interesting is if there had been a non-foiling Manuard scow in the mix. The Classe 40 scows showed speed deltas against the conventional boats very similar to what the foiling 60s do. With so many foiler now out, but JLC hanging in the pack, it would make for a pretty interesting compare/contrast. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
troll99 452 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Message from Clarisse Crémer ( Banque Populaire X ) on Monday December 7th. “When I stick my head out, it's like the connections aren't really making in my brain. The sea is like in the movies, well rather like in those documentaries on the southern seas, or in fact it is just exactly like the images of the Vendée Globe that I watched before leaving, in search of mental preparation! For 24 hours I have finally arrived in the deep end, in this universe that I dreaded a lot while going to seek it. The Indian Ocean in all its splendor (well certainly not in all its splendor because the conditions are still largely livable but in a splendor which is quite sufficient for me), a completely disorderly swell of 5 meters, wind oscillating between 30 and 35 knots, the boat which comes to a complete stop between 2 badly stowed waves to spin at 28 knots on the next slide ... a chaos that is felt in every carbon fold of Banque Populaire X. The waves sometimes strike from the full side and in my bunk I cannot believe the strength of my great companion. Come on my boy, keep it up, it's good, I need you! I risk myself from time to time to stick my head outside, the sails are as they should be? The ends do not drag in the water? Everything has a normal head? At night it's a balancing act with a flashlight through the portholes to try to see something between two waves that submerge the boat. We are very happy when all is well because we actually have no desire to go outside. The waves are scary, the colors are intimidating and even this surprising and perpetual presence of sea birds is not enough to reassure me. Yesterday I burned myself through the full range of sails on my boat: A6.5, FRO, j2, j3 ... Today, I'm no longer in groundhog mode waiting for the winter to pass! Good thing the wind does not really require a new maneuver. Finally, yes, he invented a new little game: the soft at 20 knots between two squalls at 36 knots. I could have fun going to tuck my sails for 5 minutes to shock them for the next grain but that only half enchants me. I already lost a while ago by leaving to the pile after having taken a little too long to shock. There is no need to titillate me Eole, I won't come to tuck in if I know it is to better breathe in the sails 30 seconds later. Flute! " 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cortosam 118 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 55 minutes ago, bucc5062 said: For us Neanderthals, there is always Google translate: (Best translated line: put himself in the cloak once again and put the race in parentheses. Seems like we do in life at times) Since that night, the skipper of APICIL Group, currently 5 th Vendée Globe is trying to solve autopilot problems. At 4.30 am HF, he informed his team that his main pilot was no longer responding. The secondary driver who was to take over the time to repair the other also showed signs of weakness. He stalled several times leading to departures in the heap without material consequences. In conjunction with his shore team, Damien is looking for solutions to reconnect his main pilot and finally be able to get away from the bar of his monohull. These technical concerns explain the surprising trajectory of the solo sailor who for a while took to the cape at the start of the afternoon to try to repair. The solutions currently implemented have not yet made it possible to relaunch the automatic piloting system but, since then, the skipper of Groupe APICIL has resumed his journey under mainsail alone and at controlled speed. Obviously, in these conditions fatigue is felt but Damien is surrounded and has only one idea in mind: repair as soon as possible! However, he will not hesitate to put himself in the cloak once again and put the race in parentheses to try to rest and launch new operations if necessary. The skipper is focused on finding solutions. He is in control and is currently sailing in a slackening wind of around 25 knots. Deepl is way better than Google translate 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blunderfull 681 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Florian interviews Pieter Heerema tomm. Will air on Wed. ”Send in your questions.” Quote Link to post Share on other sites
troll99 452 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Schnick said: What would really make this interesting is if there had been a non-foiling Manuard scow in the mix. The Classe 40 scows showed speed deltas against the conventional boats very similar to what the foiling 60s do. With so many foiler now out, but JLC hanging in the pack, it would make for a pretty interesting compare/contrast. just enlarge it if Vendee rules changed a bit. The most winning boat in 650. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 1,423 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 On 12/3/2020 at 11:47 PM, festus said: Is it possible to use the polars to simulate a transpac race? Not sure how to get historical weather for the race date, but it would be interesting to know what a modern IMOCA potential would be for the down wind slide. There was a video on Comanche’s transatlantic record run where Stan Honey talked about routing weather for years of historical data. Pretty cool. Yes that is possible. The weather routing plugin can utilize the wind averages and current data from the Climatology plug in. So you can do a weather routing (pro forma) for winds and currents for a certain month using applicable polars. But I don't have time do this this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bristol-Cruiser 1,375 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 17 minutes ago, troll99 said: just enlarge it if Vendee rules changed a bit. The most winning boat in 650. I can believe it can be fast but it is not a beauty. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bucc5062 220 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Refreshed for the latest sched update and it looks like Damien is heading in the right direction and moving decently (12 kts). I do hope he can get that AP fixed. He has been a lurking non-foiler that has been really hanging well in the top 5 (now 6). He's not gotten the same overall attention of either JLC or foilers, but he's been sailing a solid race. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Miffy 2,144 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 13 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said: I can believe it can be fast but it is not a beauty. Ian Lipinski and Adrien Hardy did 415 nm in 24 hrs during the last TJV. While I don't think the relevancy of the IMOCA class will decline anytime soon - for the upcoming various ocean race startup opportunities and the relatively restricted class 40 rules without carbon composites, canting keels, relatively cost effective rig/sails - there's obviously still a lot of nautical architecture to be learned. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bucc5062 220 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 It also looks like Isabelle has started to fine a groove again. She has again passed Pedote and sits only @120 nm behind Boris (bow to bow distance). I watched this before where she starts to grind down a boat in front. Over 24 hrs it looks like they are closely matched so this one may take longer and (I guess) depend on routing decisions and how to set up for the next wave coming from behind. Still amazing how close the racing is in 2-11. I love this way more then UFO take downs. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
socalrider 709 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Armel at 24kts now, averaging over 21kts for last four hours. Only 2m sea state - seems to be having a nicer time of it than the folks in front, for the time being. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
troll99 452 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 27 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said: I can believe it can be fast but it is not a beauty. I can "reverse" the quote.. It is not beautiful but it is furious and fast! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 1,423 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Weather update + AIS positions After updating Anaconda Navigator and playing with Python for half a day, I succeeded in running the AIS-script posted up thread earlier and import the positions for the first 8 boats into OpenCPN. Compared the reported 17:30 positions with their AIS-positions. As the timestamps for AIS differ from the 17:30 timestamp and benchmark, there are differences. For some boats these delta's are bigger than I can explain atm. Either the AIS scraping is not accurate enough for some boats, or their reported positions do not match the 17:30 timestamp. My guess is the latter, as AIS does not lie and there are almost no other boats in the area that could trigger a false AIS-report. And AIS speed and heading confirm it's a VG-boat when checking the offical tracker. DELTA AIS-position versus Reported 17:30 in NM and time: Dalin 9 nm and 35 minutes (seems accurate) Burton 23 nm and 87 minutes (not OK) Seguin 36 nm and 29 minutes (not OK) Herrmann 48 nm and 88 minutes (not OK) Le Cam 53 nm and 42 minutes (not OK) Bestaven 25 nm and 55 minutes (not OK) Ruyant 18 nm and 51 minutes (seems accurate) Dutreux 24 nm and 35 minutes (not OK) Now to the weather routing. In the top-8 boats are 3 without a foiler, that is not bad. Conditions (e.g. sea state) have not been ideal for foiling lately. As the sea seems to flatten a bit around 3 meters for Dalin and Ruyant, these foilers should be able to get their extra advantage until the next LP comes in Tuesday. If sailing on the good bow for Ruyant. I changed the virtual waypoint towards Cape Leeuwin, 70 nm above the AEZ. After 120 East the AEZ moves to the south, so this corner is a natural waypoint. Adjusted polars for Dutreux and Seguin for non-foiling. ECMWF and GFS align, more or less, as usual. Not guaranteed on a boat level. Routing table is in pic 1. Rough rides again predicted due to the new wind coing in from the west for most boats. Dalin, Ruyant and Bestaven have very high max winds in the 40s and 50s kts. I can understand that they want to stay out of this in order to keep the boat in one piece. A detour more to the north could be necessary. See pic 3 for routing Dalin with max 35 kts wind and max 5 meter swell. His heading of 83 degrees falls in lign with Dalin routing around the heavy stuff. The blue line is routing without wind or wave constraints. Also, the ETA's to the virtual WP are within 13 hours arrival after Dalin for the chasing 7 boats. Pressure stays on the leader. 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stief 4,231 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 2 hours ago, chester said: what is with that "clack, clack, clack" thing? https://sailinganarchy.com/2016/12/31/king-clac-clac-clac/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chester 1,253 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 ok, thanks to everyone who answered. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlechay 715 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 5 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said: I got hit by a flying fish one night and it hurts. Also leaves a fishy smell on your face. My wife was behind the wheel and ducked down for some reason, adjusting the Monitor steering line I think, and a FF passed over just where her face had been. She thought it was quite funny when I got fished, I suspect she would not have seen the humour if she got hit. It hurts but you can get revenge by eating them. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F18 Sailor 327 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 31 minutes ago, Herman said: Weather update + AIS positions After updating Anaconda Navigator and playing with Python for half a day, I succeeded in running the AIS-script posted up thread earlier and import the positions for the first 8 boats into OpenCPN. Compared the reported 17:30 positions with their AIS-positions. As the timestamps for AIS differ from the 17:30 timestamp and benchmark, there are differences. For some boats these delta's are bigger than I can explain atm. Either the AIS scraping is not accurate enough for some boats, or their reported positions do not match the 17:30 timestamp. My guess is the latter, as AIS does not lie and there are almost no other boats in the area that could trigger a false AIS-report. And AIS speed and heading confirm it's a VG-boat when checking the offical tracker. DELTA AIS-position versus Reported 17:30 in NM and time: Dalin 9 nm and 35 minutes (seems accurate) Burton 23 nm and 87 minutes (not OK) Seguin 36 nm and 29 minutes (not OK) Herrmann 48 nm and 88 minutes (not OK) Le Cam 53 nm and 42 minutes (not OK) Bestaven 25 nm and 55 minutes (not OK) Ruyant 18 nm and 51 minutes (seems accurate) Dutreux 24 nm and 35 minutes (not OK) General opinion is that the AIS data is more accurate than the official tracker. At Burton's average 4h speed of 13.9kts, 13.9*87/60 = 20.2 nm, hence 23nm seems reasonable no? Some of the others are not of course, Dutreux for example would have to be going 36.92 kts to cover 24nm in 35min, maybe his position reports were confused with Sodebo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent 2,002 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Radio interview of Maxime Sorel; it is on the French side of the website, but not the English side. From what he says, it is tough... And regarding problems and failures, when it rains, it pours... The skipper of V&B-Mayenne was on the radio call this morning; he explains the tough conditions he has encountered in the past few days and how he manages the problems on board. " I have never seen a sea state like this! It is very hard to sail, the boat slams, then gets off in an overspeed surf. For safety reasons, I preferred to slow down, and reduce sails. RIght now, I have J3 and 2 reefs in the main. Wind is between 20 and 25 knots, with more than 40 knots in the squalls. The sea state is very disorganized, sometimes it gets a little bit better, but right now, it's nuts. There is a very big swell, and if you do not go fast enough, the waves break on the transom. It is not very comfortable, and it is going to continue, unfortunately. It's tiring, we have had strong winds for 10 days. Last 24 hrs, you can sail at the speed you want to, otherwise you risk to break the boat. According to the forecast, we should get this type of wind for another 3 days. So we have to cope with it; it should get a bit better afterwards. I have been told that deep South will be gray, cold and humid, and with a large swell, but they did not tell me that the sea state would be that shitty! The wind shift is so brutal between before the front and after the front that, of course, we end up with crossed seas. I have spent last night to DETUNE the boat, trying to slow down. I had 3 reefs in the main and the J3 and we had surfs at 29 knots... There is not much more to do; once you reduced sails as much as possible, you just suffer. It is very weird, it is a discovery for me. You have to decide between the race, sailing fast, and keep the boat and yourself safe, so you do not break anything but still keep some speed so you do not get caught by the waves, because it is dangerous. Last night, I did not really sleep; I was ready to jump on the sheets for the squalls. And last evening, at sunset, I decided to change cloth and wash myself; I had to make water and then, impossible to start the engine. I spent 2 hours working on it, trying to understand what was going on. The boats are continuously heeled right now, so you cannot turn on the engine with the normal water intake configuration; on my boat, the water intake is near the propeller shaft, so I am using the "schnorchel" used to fill up the ballast as a water intake for the engine. But since I have been going too fast, some water got into the engine. So I hade to open up the engine to get rid of the water and restart it. While I was working on that, the boat launched on a surf and I got a problem with my hydrogenerator, which is my second source of electricity on board. I lost all hydraulic oil on the port side hydrogenerator. So I had to deal with that as well. I was completely drained. And then the following night, I had to deal with squalls with winds up to 52 knots. I am knackerred. I don't look at boat speed anymore. I am going to bed and I will see later on... Today, my life is ruled by the weather systems; I am planning maneuvers in so many hours forward, and in the mean time, i try to rest, to eat, and I wait for the next fuck-up to happen... I no longer think in days by instead in tasks on my backlog. 10 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DVV 36 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Bristol-Cruiser said: I can believe it can be fast but it is not a beauty. I like it. Just have to get used Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlechay 715 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Herman said: Yes that is possible. The weather routing plugin can utilize the wind averages and current data from the Climatology plug in. So you can do a weather routing (pro forma) for winds and currents for a certain month using applicable polars. But I don't have time do this this. You can download historical data from sites like Meteoblue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OPAL 211 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 On 12/5/2020 at 8:56 PM, tDot said: Enda O'Coineen, the Irish Skipper from the last edition of the Vendee. https://www.imoca.org/en/news/news/enda-o-coineen-around-the-world-and-back Hell of a de-masting that one, ripped clean off the deck. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stief 4,231 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Poor Pip, and the others. Now they have to decide whether to stack the watertight emergency container too. Quote Article C.3.20 (v) of the Class Rules Imoca 2021 v2.2 specifies that the watertight emergency container must be sealed in place. Article C.3.20 (v) is removed. Therefore the seal can be removed. [aside] Only a week after KE's life raft troubles. Didn't know the Class Rules could be changed so quickly. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snowden 503 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, Laurent said: impossible to start the engine. I spent 2 hours working on it, trying to understand what was going on. The boats are continuously heeled right now, so you cannot turn on the engine with the normal water intake configuration; on my boat, the water intake is near the propeller shaft, so I am using the "schnorchel" used to fill up the ballast as a water intake for the engine They moved the intake to the keel on the foilers to avoid this exact problem, didn't they? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent 2,002 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 50 minutes ago, Herman said: Weather update + AIS positions After updating Anaconda Navigator and playing with Python for half a day, I succeeded in running the AIS-script posted up thread earlier and import the positions for the first 8 boats into OpenCPN. Compared the reported 17:30 positions with their AIS-positions. As the timestamps for AIS differ from the 17:30 timestamp and benchmark, there are differences. For some boats these delta's are bigger than I can explain atm. Either the AIS scraping is not accurate enough for some boats, or their reported positions do not match the 17:30 timestamp. My guess is the latter, as AIS does not lie and there are almost no other boats in the area that could trigger a false AIS-report. And AIS speed and heading confirm it's a VG-boat when checking the offical tracker. DELTA AIS-position versus Reported 17:30 in NM and time: Dalin 9 nm and 35 minutes (seems accurate) Burton 23 nm and 87 minutes (not OK) Seguin 36 nm and 29 minutes (not OK) Herrmann 48 nm and 88 minutes (not OK) Le Cam 53 nm and 42 minutes (not OK) Bestaven 25 nm and 55 minutes (not OK) Ruyant 18 nm and 51 minutes (seems accurate) Dutreux 24 nm and 35 minutes (not OK) Now to the weather routing. In the top-8 boats are 3 without a foiler, that is not bad. Conditions (e.g. sea state) have not been ideal for foiling lately. As the sea seems to flatten a bit around 3 meters for Dalin and Ruyant, these foilers should be able to get their extra advantage until the next LP comes in Tuesday. If sailing on the good bow for Ruyant. I changed the virtual waypoint towards Cape Leeuwin, 70 nm above the AEZ. After 120 East the AEZ moves to the south, so this corner is a natural waypoint. Adjusted polars for Dutreux and Seguin for non-foiling. ECMWF and GFS align, more or less, as usual. Not guaranteed on a boat level. Routing table is in pic 1. Rough rides again predicted due to the new wind coing in from the west for most boats. Dalin, Ruyant and Bestaven have very high max winds in the 40s and 50s kts. I can understand that they want to stay out of this in order to keep the boat in one piece. A detour more to the north could be necessary. See pic 3 for routing Dalin with max 35 kts wind and max 5 meter swell. His heading of 83 degrees falls in lign with Dalin routing around the heavy stuff. The blue line is routing without wind or wave constraints. Also, the ETA's to the virtual WP are within 13 hours arrival after Dalin for the chasing 7 boats. Pressure stays on the leader. Thanks Herman! Am I reading your table right? Are you predicting 6 boats with 1 1/2 hrs at your virtual waypoint, at the corner of the ZEA, East of Cape Leeuwin??? That would be awesome for the interest of the race... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlechay 715 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, Laurent said: Thanks Herman! Am I reading your table right? Are you predicting 6 boats with 1 1/2 hrs at your virtual waypoint, at the corner of the ZEA, East of Cape Leeuwin??? That would be awesome for the interest of the race... I'm getting very similar numbers 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stief 4,231 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Nice pics and thread about Sam's progress here 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pbenett 9 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Looks like Burton is having some trouble... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bebmoumoute 1,123 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Yoann Richomme usually does a routing live on Mondays, but he has delayed until tomorrow as he is assisting Damien Seguin with the pilot issues tonight. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bristol-Cruiser 1,375 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 hour ago, DVV said: I like it. Just have to get used I am too old for that ... and get off my lawn. You look at something like Endeavour and it is pure boat porn. Forget the practicality and cost, if you want to be practical take an airplane. We were in anchorage in Antigua when a powerboat around 110' came in and anchored and then a J-boat came in and rafted off its 'tender' for the night. Maybe you sleep on the powerboat where there is a/c, who knows. I could not imagine how much a week charter would have been. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheDragon 905 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 16 minutes ago, pbenett said: Looks like Burton is having some trouble... Apicil also slow, perhaps their southern routing was too much for the conditions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bebmoumoute 1,123 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 minute ago, TheDragon said: Apicil also slow, perhaps their southern routing was too much for the conditions. see #8112 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pbenett 9 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Just now, TheDragon said: Apicil also slow, perhaps their southern routing was too much for the conditions. Apicil is having autopilot issues. Still no news from Burton Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jack_sparrow 7,696 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Laurent said: I had to make water and then, impossible to start the engine. I spent 2 hours working on it, trying to understand what was going on. The boats are continuously heeled right now, so you cannot turn on the engine with the normal water intake configuration; on my boat, the water intake is near the propeller shaft, so I am using the "schnorchel" used to fill up the ballast as a water intake for the engine. But since I have been going too fast, some water got into the engine. So I hade to open up the engine to get rid of the water and restart it. Needs this like hole in the head and maybe very lucky. Doesn't have keel raw water inlet so bypassing that using water ballast inlet line. That's common workaround in heavy conditions. All that has NO impact on engine starting just running without overheating. "But since I have been going too fast, some water got into the engine" Raw water circulation and coolant circulation seperate. So appears ballast water inlet volume/pressure overwhelmed exhaust mixer and water entered engine via exhaust valves. "So I hade to open up the engine to get rid of the water and restart it." He then had to drain/pump out water from cylinders I presume by pulling out injectors. Bastard of a job tied up let alone at sea on a surfboard. Lucky engine didn't hydro lock. Think water which doesn't compress (unlike air) greater than the volume of the cylinder at its minimum (end of the piston's stroke) sitting on top of piston. When you know. When starting motor won't budge. Burnt out starter if you don't notice. If this happens when engine going. Piston connecting rods say goodbye, maybe fractured crank, head, block, crankcase or bearing damage. Throw engine away. Sounded though he had a 'soft stop' when running. One simple paragraph in a report hides a lot of pain and agony and a potential race end. Hats off. Bent connecting rod. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snowden 503 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said: He then had to drain it, I presume by pulling out injectors. you can do this with the decompression lever, can't you? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bebmoumoute 1,123 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said: Needs this like hole in the head and maybe very lucky. Doesn't have keel raw water inlet so bypassing that using water ballast inlet line. That's common workaround in heavy conditions. All that has NO impact on engine starting just running without overheating. "But since I have been going too fast, some water got into the engine" Raw water circulation and coolant circulation seperate. So appears ballast water inlet volume/pressure overwhelmed exhaust mixer and water entered engine via exhaust valves. He then had to drain it, I presume by pulling out injectors. Lucky engine didn't hydro lock. Think water which doesn't compress (unlike air) greater than the volume of the cylinder at its minimum (end of the piston's stroke) sitting on top of piston. Ian assuming he found when stated motor wouldn't budge. Lucky didn't burn it out. If this happens when engine going. Piston connecting rods say goodbye, maybe fractured crank, head, block, crankcase or bearing damage. Throw engine away. Bent connecting rod. Been there... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jack_sparrow 7,696 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, Snowden said: 14 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said: He then had to drain it, I presume by pulling out injectors. you can do this with the decompression lever, can't you? They stopped including those and a crank handle on marine diesel engines just after the war. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent 2,002 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Thanks for the explanation. I knew that they had a different intake for the raw water when heeling hard, or now, I guess foiling as well... But I still couldn't understand how raw water could get "inside the engine" (dans le moteur)... I guess the only option is indeed through the exhaust line and back into the engine through an open exhaust valve. It is either that or a much more serious damage as a blown seal or gasket somewhere in the engine... He was indeed lucky that he did not hydrolock and broke something. I guess one of the chambers filled up with engine stopped and the starter could not even turn the engine. Trivia question. How do you empty a car engine with hydrolock because you drove through a ford and sucked water through the air intake? 5 buddies in a van, in the UK (rental car...); one of those small country roads that can have a stream running through in heavy rain. We try to go through it at very low speed and go through... and the engine stalls 10 seconds later... What we did not know was that the airfilter intake on this car was very low in the engine compartment. How do you fix it without breaking anything? You put it in 5th gear (manual transmission) for low torque and 4 guys pushing it... backwards. We were able to push enough water back through the INTAKE valve to eventually start it back... 10 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snowden 503 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said: They stopped including those and a crank handle on marine diesel engines just after the war. you mean to say my 1GM10 isn't cutting edge technology?? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snowden 503 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 17 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said: "But since I have been going too fast, some water got into the engine" cranking it for two hours with water gushing into the seacock at 29 knots will do that Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jack_sparrow 7,696 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said: They stopped including those and a crank handle on marine diesel engines just after the war. 5 minutes ago, Snowden said: you mean to say my 1GM10 isn't cutting edge technology?? No crank handle...This is where someone posts on how to use snatch blocks, a line and gybing to start an engine with no power or has a shot starter motor. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jack_sparrow 7,696 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, Laurent said: You put it in 5th gear (manual transmission) for low torque and 4 guys pushing it... backwards. We were able to push enough water back through the INTAKE valve to eventually start it back... Bookmarked. Don't pull injectors.....sail backwards quickly. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kass 102 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Herman said: Yes that is possible. The weather routing plugin can utilize the wind averages and current data from the Climatology plug in. So you can do a weather routing (pro forma) for winds and currents for a certain month using applicable polars. But I don't have time do this this. Alternatively you can download gribs for the actual days from various reanalysis data sets. E.g. https://cds.climate.copernicus.eu/#!/home, https://apps.ecmwf.int/datasets/, https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/data-access/model-data/model-datasets/climate-forecast-system-version2-cfsv2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james_007_bond 37 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 4 hours ago, troll99 said: just enlarge it if Vendee rules changed a bit. The most winning boat in 650. You can't do one of those as an IMOCA, it's prohibited by the rules: Quote D.2 (d) The maximum beam of the hull, 1000 mm behind the forward most extremity of hull length, shall not be greater than 1120 mm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
troll99 452 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Just now, james_007_bond said: You can't do one of those as an IMOCA, it's prohibited by the rules: reread above if Vendee rules changed a bit. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bristol-Cruiser 1,375 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 32 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said: No crank handle...This is where someone posts on how to use snatch blocks, a line and gybing to start an engine with no power or has a shot starter motor. I had a Volvo engine in my only new boat around 1982. It had decompression levers and a crank. Even used it a couple of times. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
longy 855 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 13 hours ago, jack_sparrow said: Tune in today's Vendée Live and guest the designer Sam Manuard, responsible for Armel Tripon's L'Occitane en Provence. His first VG but won the Multi50 class in the last Route du Rhum. Could be interesting design listen with leaders conditions and this in mind. - A "scow" = more sea state friendly. - Pretty sure his foils are fully retractable. And a random he also one of the few with a wind generator. Why I bloody don't know? J S - I think 4 boats have had serious problems with hydro - generators so far. Mostly ripping right off the back of the boat. Since that is a repeat of previous problems with these units, I'd venture to guess that mounts have been up-engineered for loads. But the stress shock of units dipping in & out of fast water might have been under estimated. And one unit seems to be leaking hyd fluid rapidly. So given faster boat speeds, flying up out of the water, wind gens seem a logical system to revert to. And there aren't many kamikazi sea birds around flying into the blades 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ctdriver 16 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Snowden said: you mean to say my 1GM10 isn't cutting edge technology?? My raw water cooled 1GM10 was the most reliable engine I've owned 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LeoV 3,151 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Snowden said: cranking it for two hours with water gushing into the seacock at 29 knots will do that And maybe a few wipe outs will affect flow in all directions... Jacko, sailing backwards, noted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
terrafirma 1,339 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 12 hours ago, DVV said: Are you implying that they have some way to avoid them, or that what is considered an UFO collision is in fact something else? I don't know obviously but if Charlie get's all the way around and wins without hitting anything he will be mighty lucky or perhaps he knows some people in very high places? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
everydaysailor 1 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 38 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said: I had a Volvo engine in my only new boat around 1982. It had decompression levers and a crank. Even used it a couple of times. Ditto on the Nicholson 32 we had on Lake Erie in the early eighties. The old crank pulled us out of a number of jams when the Volvo needed a nudge. Weird, I had just mentioned this on the SSS sight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crashtack 334 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Any reasoning as to why Louis is sailing a negative VMG? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hitchhiker 1,154 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 21 minutes ago, ctdriver said: My raw water cooled 1GM10 was the most reliable engine I've owned Heard that. When I installed a 1GM10 in my previous Laser 28 and first fired it up. I stood there listening to that thump, thump ,thump and realized I had the biggest *^&% eating grin on my face ever. Thing ran like a champ. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stief 4,231 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Conrad Humphreys and Damian Foxall. Collisions at sea and other measures. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlechay 715 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 27 minutes ago, longy said: J S - I think 4 boats have had serious problems with hydro - generators so far. Mostly ripping right off the back of the boat. Since that is a repeat of previous problems with these units, I'd venture to guess that mounts have been up-engineered for loads. But the stress shock of units dipping in & out of fast water might have been under estimated. And one unit seems to be leaking hyd fluid rapidly. So given faster boat speeds, flying up out of the water, wind gens seem a logical system to revert to. And there aren't many kamikazi sea birds around flying into the blades The hydrogenerator mounts really look shite, I was just commenting on one the other day to the guys fitting on to a boat that will be in a race in a couple of year. ... At least they are fuse to stop the generator ripping the back out of the boat! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Miffy 2,144 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 It isn’t Watt & Sea’s fault - it’s been happening for as long as Watt and Sea products have been in the VG. The skippers who rely on it but don’t take it out when they’re easily over 25 knots are engaging in wishful thinking. Armel worked with Watt and Sea to try and make a turbine tunnel in BP last cycle - not sure what came of it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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