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":A 2h18 heure française, le team PRB a été informé du sauvetage de Kevin Escoffier par Jean Le Cam. " Kevin has been rescued.  

Give it a rest chaps. HB was another attempt at evolution, and they should be applauded for spending a fuck ton of money to do so. If you want to try and be innovative you run the risk of breakages al

VG sailors at sea in the rough A translation: JLC: Damien can you receive me ? DS: Yes Jean I can (garbled)... I don't think you're receiving me that well but I receive you very well. JL

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28 minutes ago, mad said:

Same lawyers involved though?:)

21 minutes ago, stief said:

Same spots, different leopard ?

 

They went dark from the time it happened on the 27th November. 

So it was decided then and there the boats rudder linkage was a legal matter?

This is despite being happy with since it was launched over a year ago.

If legal action prevents communication why didn't Boris go dark after his 2016 foil break legal case start??

Mmmmmmmmm

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Hey Jack. Thought you'd have been chortling over the "black" beast and the 666 stuff in that legal judgement. :P

I'm onto relief from FR speculation about redress, or EN speculation about Alex. Off for fun with Spanish again for more reading about lightning strikes, dagger and foil-less IMOCA designs, low budget projects, and the remarkable challenges of weather routing this edition.

Or not.  Cheers

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4 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Interesting no boards tactic. So many ways to skin a VG.

Both mentioned US sailors, but not Ocean Planet or her/his/it's skipper... not good ...

Yes, surprised by the no boards bit. The keel gives enough lateral resistance to go upwind?

Didac was mentioned, so not sure what you mean. 

Hope Haji comments about US skippers; Owen and Andi mentioned 11th hour and Rich Wilson, and they both know about Coyote. Time constraints for the broadcast, I suppose.

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33 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

They went dark from the time it happened on the 27th November. 

So it was decided then and there the boats rudder linkage was a legal matter?

This is despite being happy with since it was launched over a year ago.

If legal action prevents communication why didn't Boris go dark after his 2016 foil break legal case start ??

Mmmmmmmmm

Panomarix signature sums it up.

British officer: You French fight for money while we fight for honor

Robert Surcouf: Each of us fights for what he lacks most

 

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3 minutes ago, Varan said:

The radical Hugo Boss, the most anticipated IMOCA launch in history. All the press and awe. The only IMOCA in this Vendee to have never completed a race against another IMOCA.

 

Would be irony if it folds and a new project is created. Maybe never. 

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Passage times at cape Leeuwin longitude, does not directly reflect race standings because if you're more to the north at that longitude you're behind those who are more to the south, (should be updated regularly):

https://www.vendeeglobe.org/fr/actualites/21000/cap-leeuwin-les-temps-de-passage

1 -  Charlie Dalin, Apivia

2 - Thomas Ruyant, LinkedOut at 3h 11min

3 - Yannick Bestaven, Maître CoQ  at 3h 20min

4 - Benjamin Dutreux, OMIA at 13h 25min

5 - Damien Seguin, Groupe APICIL at 14h 24min

6 - Jean Le Cam, Yes We Cam ! at 14h 47min

7- Louis Burton, Bureau Vallée 2 at 16h 59min

8 - Boris Hermann, SeaExplorer at 20h 43min

9 - Isabelle Joschke, MACSF at 23h 43min

It was all super close at cape Leeuwin... unbelievable... 9 boats within 24 hours... crazy

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Access and exposure is a two way street.

Pounding the pavement chasing sponsorship funding experience doesn't ooze from your post. 

Fair point, you know more about that.  Why not give Alex a call see if he can use some of your advice, he's clearly never managed to get any sponsorship funding together... oh, no, wait.....

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9 minutes ago, canstead said:

Fair point, you know more about that.  Why not give Alex a call see if he can use some of your advice, he's clearly never managed to get any sponsorship funding together... oh, no, wait.....

Most of the French, and other, skippers have, over the years had to find quite a few different title sponsors, so this activity, presentation of project etc. must be something they are well practiced at. I guess Alex must have had others apart from HB during his career but for quite a few years HB is the only main name sponsor which comes to mind.  With HB signed up one wonders how much actual selling Alex has had to do over the years compared with the others.

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3 hours ago, yl75 said:

Regarding HB rudder, I really don't understand why some footage hasn't been realeased, as, if it what happened, that footage clearly exists (just for shoreteam exchanges for instance).

because when you release video/photo material of damaged parts the question to "ok, and how did this happen" gets even louder, you can't show the damage with no annotation.
And it appears that for whatever reason they don't want to comment on it. Or they are still analyzing what happened and provide the info later when they are ready.

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Sam leaving Cape Town, photo from my sister. She says they are sailing around just outside of Table Bay, presumably checking things out.

 

6CA99AEC-92E5-486B-9B65-6C60FB67534F.jpeg

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Convincing interested parties to continue during a disappointment is probably more of a priority - plus without knowing the cash flow situation, you're looking at a boat that needs to be repaired/dockage paid for/retrieved not to mention the foil & storage they have to pay for from 2016 Hugo Boss. ATR's near term & longterm challenges are rather diff from that of initiatives coeur or charal. 

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1 minute ago, TheDragon said:

Sam leaving Cape Town, photo from my sister. She says they are sailing around just outside of Table Bay, presumably checking things out.

She's showing as a ghost boat on ATR's tracker.  That's nice.  She'll probably pass a few unless she treats it as a casual cruise.

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2 hours ago, bucc5062 said:

If we don't see this version of Hugo Boss again, as in it's taken out back and chopped up then the POS hypothesis makes some sense.  

I think it is not really appropriate to call any IMOCA that breaks in the VG a POS, any more than calling an F1 car a POS if it breaks down. The intent is to push the boundaries, which means boundaries must get crossed.

Many people have the entirely mistaken impression that engineering works from first principles of physics, and it never does. I mean never. QED is never, ever used, and that is the foundation of physics. All engineering is using rules of thumb. These rules of thumb only apply within limited domains of vast experience, such as how thick steel plates should be for container ships. They do not apply to carbon structures.

The rules for carbon structures are not the same as the rules for other materials: whereas the rules for glass are based on the observation that strength is correlated to the cosine of the off angle load, with carbon -- due to the dramatically higher brittleness of carbon, the lack of stretch before failure, which is the inability for load to spread through a carbon structure -- the strength is observed to fall off by cosine SQUARED, or very rapidly with increasing load off-axis of the fibers. Rules for metal are different yet again, due to the fact nearly all metals are insensitive to direction of load. Adding coring, or flanges, or stress risers to the problem just makes things that much less precise.

Add the enormous dynamic effects of crashing the bow after UFO impact, followed by momentum and still full sail force driving the bow underwater, and one is very far from the limited domains of vast experience.

One might think engineering is predicting: one predicts this boat design will make it around the world at record speed. Well, its like predicting the weather. An extremely experienced design team, like AT's, can be consistently close, but never precise, and sometimes very much incorrect. The reason: mathematically, its called chaos. Chaotic systems are those where aspects of the future can be reasonably well predicted, but in general (outside of limited ranges of variable values and time into the future) we can predict reasonably well only within ranges, or patterns, approximately what can be expected, not specific solutions. All that is required for chaos to appear is state and non-linearity. State means what happens next is dependent on what happens before. Sailing certainly has a lot of state! Non-linearities include things that change faster or slower than a linear change, such as lift which is a function of the square of speed. Squaring something is non-linear: 2 times faster makes 4 times the lift, while 4 times faster makes 16 times the lift, certainly non-linear. Therefore, if we are talking about sailboats, we are talking about chaotic systems, which means any prediction that any given boat will make it around the world is un-certain.

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Imho Alex Thompson has nothing to prove, it was his fifth VG, he finished two of them, respect. His best finish so far was 2nd, just like Ellen Mac Arthur, Loick Peyron, Jean Le Cam... that's a group of pretty legendary sailors.

I don't really question Alex Thomson's fighting spirit. If he says his boat is unfit to finish, so be it. It broke down, he tried to repair it, we didn't have much news on hull integrity after that but my speculation is that the repairs weren't enough, you can only do so much out at sea. Then there was the rudder thing, whatever it was.. the last straw.

Just my two cents

 

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2 minutes ago, ant1 said:

Imho Alex Thompson has nothing to prove, it was his fifth VG, he finished two of them, respect. His best finish so far was 2nd, just like Ellen Mac Arthur, Loick Peyron, Jean Le Cam... that's a group of pretty legendary sailors.

I think that's right. Setting aside the German connection, he is closer to an Andy Murray than a Tim Henman...

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1 hour ago, ant1 said:

Imho Alex Thompson has nothing to prove, it was his fifth VG, he finished two of them, respect. His best finish so far was 2nd, just like Ellen Mac Arthur, Loick Peyron, Jean Le Cam... that's a group of pretty legendary sailors.

 

 

These sailors have actually won some races though...

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19 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Piss off ambulance chaser.. I got in first.

I might not be qualified but I know the UN Convention on the  Law of the Sea backwards ....I'm still working on forwards.

Looking for a gif of amphibious ambulances....Dog teams swim and go in reverse. :lol:

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3 hours ago, TheDragon said:

Glad to see she remains shown on HB tracker page at least, might be on her way now?

After all she will be shown on the main tracker in phantom mode... can be good for teachers who had their class following her more particularly... there even could be extra fun in following a "ghost" ship

"Sam will go on her way under the vigilant eye of the race direction of the Vendee Globe, ready to intervene in case of problems. Initiative Coeur's track will be visible on the Vendee Globe cartography, but in "phantom" mode."

https://www.vendeeglobe.org/fr/actualites/21031/bonne-route-sam

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6 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

We were on South Georgia, on the opposite side from this iceberg, in remarkably good conditions. We visited one colony of King Penguins that had between 80,000 and 300,000 birds (depending on which expert was talking). From offshore it looked like the surface of the land was vibrating there were so many birds so close together. Don't know what the populations are like on the SW side but I assume similar.

Incorrect assumption. In comparison with the NE side there is almost nothing on the SW side. It is awesomely spectacular though. 

Also bear in mind that if this berg runs aground it will be a very long way offshore, probably not even in sight of the island It has about 70m or so sticking out of the water so around 500m below the water.... 

Both experts were probably right and you were not listening very carefully. The correct and usual way to refer to the quantity of birds in a colony is in breeding pairs i.e. the number of nests (your 80,000) but some people talk about estimates of the total number of birds; breeding pairs, plus their young, plus non-breeding birds plus juveniles not in the care of their parents (your 300,000). 

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7 minutes ago, Hitchhiker said:

The three lead boats are in a strong breakaway with the weather.  Have to wonder though how much performance Linked is losing with that damaged port foil. Some very interesting days ahead.

Thanks Hitch for that look ahead 3 days. Will watch if JLC/Damien end up more or less a day behind.

The squid/windy projection also shows the rise to the north, and has trouble with the date line ;) 

2054780340_ScreenShot2020-12-14at2_29_34PM.thumb.png.8be6ebdac137033c850899c5644f05be.png

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9 hours ago, JonRowe said:

 

Hmm OK so there is no stock.. no linkage either which he disconnected at sea, perhaps the rudder was already snapped off and he just dropped the stock overboard when he disconnected the linkage... 

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Yannick B trying to soothe the masses over the "virtual lead" possibilities tomorrow.

Quote

Posted on December 14, 2020 at 8:00 p.m. Modified on December 14, 2020 at 8:06 p.m.

Vendée Globe. Yannick Bestaven: "I do not consider myself at all as the virtual leader"

Yannick Bestaven should know, Wednesday, the time compensation that will be granted to him for his rout. But the skipper Maître Coq does not care too much and wants to take advantage of his good place in the top three.

Yannick Bestaven in the top three leaving the Indian Ocean, would you have believed it if we had told you when you left?

Yes ! I had announced that my goal was to be in the top five in the Indian. I knew that I had a good boat, well prepared, with a good team around me, a good partner, a good project… I still ran a lot of races this season with this boat. I roughly knew where to stand.

You discover the Indian and you go from the hunting group to the leading trio. How do you explain it?

During a large part of the Indian, we had complicated weather, heavy seas… We couldn't go fast. I had a hard time outrunning the boats that were with me, especially the drift boats, like those of Jean (Le Cam) or Damien (Seguin). As soon as the conditions were more or less correct in terms of sea, I really attacked, I put the package. When I saw that I was coming back to the front group, that Thomas (Rettant) and Charlie (Dalin) had escaped north to deal with the depression, I understood that there was a blow to be done. I have been using coal for the last 72 hours to exploit 100% of the boat's potential to come back to this group and, above all,leave with them because we are behind a depression that will drag us a little far and allow us to make a hole in the group behind us. In the Vendée Globe, there are times when you can set sail and others when it is better to ease off. You have to find the right moment when you can press.

Did you scare yourself in the Indian?

Of course, I was afraid when we started the search to find Kevin (Escoffier) and I had lost a little confidence when we left. The fact of being able to pull on the boat, its fragility… I was asking myself a lot of questions. It does not leave indifferent. Afterwards in the management of the weather and the fronts, I knew how to keep my back. It's not very pleasant, that's for sure, but we can't talk about fear.

Wednesday, the jury should decide on the time you will recover for your rerouting in order to save Kevin Escoffier. How many hours do you feel you have wasted and do you consider yourself a potential “virtual leader”?

I do not ask myself the question at all. We are not quite halfway there and the road is still very long. I don't see myself as a virtual leader at all. The time that will be given to me is what will seem fair to the jury. But that doesn't affect my race at all. The important thing is to be in the group with Thomas and Charlie because they are sailors who know how to go fast and manage to keep their pace (even if the potential of my boat is a little below theirs). Instead, we will do the calculations once we get to Sables-d'Olonne.

These compensations will perhaps be more important for Dalin and Rettant who will have to get enough ahead of you.

Perhaps. But I don't know what condition their boat is in. If they are at their full potential, they should outrun me a little bit when going up the Atlantic and even over the Pacific. I am not in their head but, in any case, it does not influence my strategy.

The goal at Les Sables-d'Olonne is the podium?

The goal is to get to Les Sables (laughs)! I want to have a lot of fun as since the beginning of this adventure.

How do you see the next few days? Is Dalin heading for the Pacific?

Of course, they will have the right conditions to go fast with their large foils. Thomas will be on a better edge (he only has the starboard foil left, editor's note). Normally, we will have a little more lenient conditions for this to unfold. So much the better because it has not been easy since we are in the Indian. If we can have more serene conditions to be able to slide and recharge the batteries, that can be good for everyone. But for now, it's me putting the pressure on them (laughs)!

How do you imagine the Pacific?

More peaceful than the Indian! I hope it lives up to its name, that it's not a hoax! I wish we had good slides. Good slides on a tidy swell, I dream of it! Because we have had too few. I imagine it cold too, we are going to dive quite south. I especially hope that we will widen the gap to keep our little treasure warm.

When you left, you told us that you were only lonely at sea. After a month at sea, what's going on in your head?

I am well, satisfied to have soon finished with the Indian without too many problems. I did not know the South Seas. I am in tune with the elements, with the boat. The days go by rather quickly, I am well organized. In terms of solitude, I often manage to have my team, my family, my friends, WhatsApp exchanges… We are isolated but we are not alone. On the contrary, we have never been watched as much as today!

When you found your Maître Coq sponsor, you thought you were going to change boats for a foiler. You had a hollow nose.

Yes. Already this boat had been tested by his former team. It's not a boat fresh out of the mold. I also had the chance to collaborate with Bilou (Roland Jourdain), who immediately gave me the keys to the boat and the instructions for use. And since I had a fairly reasonable budget, we preferred to make the boat more reliable. We did not lighten the boat, we added fabrics. we reinforced, unlike many. I didn't go into the delirium of changing my foils either. I knew it was too short, that there would be youthful flaws. I've been waiting for the Vendée Globe for twelve years (Bestaven dismasted in the Bay of Biscay in 2008). I didn't want to ruin my race by being too ambitious and having too many mechanical problems and breakage.These are already ultra-powerful boats and difficult to live with with foils which are nevertheless small. The Vendée Globe is like the Paris-Dakar, it's a bit of the all-terrain 4x4 that we do in the South Seas. So, it was important to focus on knowing my boat and sailing with it.

Jean Le Cam used exactly the same image, telling us that we are not sending a Formula 1 to Paris-Dakar … This is the debate that is currently agitating the new generation foilers. Charlie Dalin was also six days behind Armel Le Cléac'h's record when passing Cape Leeuwin ...

(He cuts) The delay is due to the fact that we did not have the same weather conditions as those of four years ago. Charlie's boat is more efficient. If you look among the top ten in the ranking, all the boats that are there have done the Vendée-Arctic, the Jacques-Vabre… There is no secret: Apivia is ahead because it has been around for a while. at the water. It has been made reliable. I think that many prognosticators and journalists have bet too much on projects which have not proven anything, which had little sailed. Whether it's Hugo Boss, Corum, L'Occitane and many others. They are very beautiful boats which will surely be developed in the coming months but which had not sailed. It was risky to initiate these projects with so little return. Charal is not there, but he had been tried. To do a Vendée Globe,you should not build a boat the day before departure.

You are rather discreet compared to the other skippers but you are in the top 3. Do you like this position?

It's a great position! Better to be an outsider than a favorite. I do not have the pressure of the result. I want to do things well, already compared to all my technical team who have worked with me for three years. You have to transform the test. And also for my sponsor Maître Coq. I really want to thank them by having a good Vendée Globe. My pressure, that's it. The wheel spins. In 2008, I had no luck. For now, I'm touching wood or rather carbon (laughs)!

gtrans from Le Telegramme

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5 hours ago, Varan said:

The radical Hugo Boss, the most anticipated IMOCA launch in history. All the press and awe. The only IMOCA in this Vendee to have never completed a race against another IMOCA.

 

...and after they had seen L´Occitane they knew they were on the wrong path. Same as in the AC with GF, designing for Il Moro, after he had seen the canoe bodied A3 compared to his „aircraft carrier type hulls. (5)

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4 hours ago, staysail said:

Most of the French, and other, skippers have, over the years had to find quite a few different title sponsors, so this activity, presentation of project etc. must be something they are well practiced at. I guess Alex must have had others apart from HB during his career but for quite a few years HB is the only main name sponsor which comes to mind.  With HB signed up one wonders how much actual selling Alex has had to do over the years compared with the others.

Yep, when you keep a sponsor for 18 years you don’t need to worry too much about keeping them happy

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9 minutes ago, Tylo said:

Quote of the day by Boris at 2:04:
After grinding for 2+ minutes: "This sheet is longer than the fucking halyard!"

Also liked the captain voice--"more cunningham" and "One way to get warm" 

The alarms sure could get irritating. Surprised he doesn't have a camera view of the hoist.

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5 minutes ago, Miffy said:

"He should have tested in Theta!" :ph34r:

Damn, though. hate to see this.

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I mean it instantly makes LinkedOut & Apivia's tactical situation more interesting & negates the measured pace Apivia has been able to enjoy. I'm sorry for the skippers individually - hope the boat doesn't have water ingress, but if breaking a foil is like tearing a sail the race is suddenly wider open to more skippers. 

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All this bitching about the BOSS. I mean they had a handful of problems with the court case (regarding the >>useless foil<<) which they lost a couple days ago. I understand that it had been a costly court case and AT lost big time.  For the ones interested in the legal stuff: https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Comm/2020/3334.html

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3 hours ago, ant1 said:

I don't really question Alex Thomson's fighting spirit. If he says his boat is unfit to finish, so be it. It broke down, he tried to repair it, we didn't have much news on hull integrity after that but my speculation is that the repairs weren't enough, you can only do so much out at sea. Then there was the rudder thing, whatever it was.. the last straw.

Lurked on here for ages but finally had an account approved... just in time to comment on ATR controversy. God help me. :rolleyes:

Regarding the theory that the bow repairs weren’t sound - not saying it’s wrong, but I’ve not seen anyone mention his speeds on starboard tack on the run into Cape Town. If the repairs hadn’t solved the issue, would he really have been pushing the boat to 20knts+ with the race over for him anyway?

Compared to his much slower speed on port, I’m more inclined to take his explanation of irreparable rudder damage at face value. 

As to the radio silence since then, who knows...

Anyway, back to the competitors still in the race. Hope Dalin’s foil issue isn’t a race ending one. :(

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1 minute ago, Manfred said:

All this bitching about the BOSS. I mean they had a handful of problems with the court case (regarding the >>useless foil<<) which they lost a couple days ago. I understand that it had been a costly court case and AT lost big time.  For the ones interested in the legal stuff: https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Comm/2020/3334.html

All? Hardly. Seemed rather tame for Sailing Anarchy. And there is already a boring thread about the lawsuit results. :lol:

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5 minutes ago, Miffy said:

I mean it instantly makes LinkedOut & Apivia's tactical situation more interesting & negates the measured pace Apivia has been able to enjoy. I'm sorry for the skippers individually - hope the boat doesn't have water ingress, but if breaking a foil is like tearing a sail the race is suddenly wider open to more skippers. 

You and many others have stated that the race is mostly decided in the rise up the Atlantic. Looks to be true again this time. Will be quite the duel with both winged, and the non-foilers ready to pounch. 

Let's see how Herrmann handles this .

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4 minutes ago, jimmyuk81 said:

Lurked on here for ages but finally had an account approved... just in time to comment on ATR controversy. God help me. :rolleyes:

Regarding the theory that the bow repairs weren’t sound - not saying it’s wrong, but I’ve not seen anyone mention his speeds on starboard tack on the run into Cape Town. If the repairs hadn’t solved the issue, would he really have been pushing the boat to 20knts+ with the race over for him anyway?

Compared to his much slower speed on port, I’m more inclined to take his explanation of irreparable rudder damage at face value. 

As to the radio silence since then, who knows...

Anyway, back to the competitors still in the race. Hope Dalin’s foil issue isn’t a race ending one. :(

Welcome Jimmy..... sister's tits....?

 

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29 minutes ago, Miffy said:
 
Copy that! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
 
At around 1800UTC this evening, Charlie Dalin (@ApiviaVoile) slowed down after hearing a loud noise on board.
After first inspection, he has confirmed that the port foil system is damaged. More info #VG2020
Image
The two Verdier twins LinkedOut and Apivia with the same foil damaged !
AlexSurpriseWTF.jpg.4887f798017605a9dc612313e96a8f5f.jpg
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Guess I'll stick my head out on this and probably catch some flak, but here we go:

Alex (who I like and respect) is out of the race. If some of you feel you have to follow up with speculation and gossip please take it to a dedicated thread. Since he broke the back of his boat we had more than enough pages on this VENDEE GLOBE thread filled with off topic chatter. And frankly, this chatter has been turning AT into some sort of over hyped drama queen.

He does not deserve that.

And we have a race going on, let's stick to that.

Thanks. :) 

 

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Up on the VG English page now. (no OFNI speculation here)

Quote

Damage to port foil system on leader APIVIA

14 December 2020 - 22:09 • 970 views Leader of the Vendée Globe since 23rd November Charlie Dalin has this evening reported damage to his port foil system. While sailing in the southern Indian Ocean some 900 miles south west of Tasmania at around 1800hrs UTC and leading the fleet by some 65 miles, Dalin heard a loud noise and immediately slowed the boat to assess the situation, discovering damage to his port foil system. Dalin called his technical team immediately.  On first inspection, the APIVIA skipper noticed that the port foil system was damaged. He did not report any water ingress. He and his team are reviewing the level of damage and repair options. 

https://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/21034/damage-to-port-foil-system-on-leader-apivia

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39 minutes ago, Miffy said:

I mean it instantly makes LinkedOut & Apivia's tactical situation more interesting & negates the measured pace Apivia has been able to enjoy. I'm sorry for the skippers individually - hope the boat doesn't have water ingress, but if breaking a foil is like tearing a sail the race is suddenly wider open to more skippers. 

The whole Pacific and whole Atlantic uphill still... w/ a wounded & lame boat, tough task to complete... Adding to the fact that young Dalin has no southern experience, he's never been south of Itajai.

(CORUM, HB, ARKEA, PRB, Initaitives, DNF..., Charal & L'Occitane at the back..., LinkedOut and now Apivia handicapped...)

The Race is more open than ever

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50 minutes ago, Manfred said:

...and after they had seen L´Occitane they knew they were on the wrong path. Same as in the AC with GF, designing for Il Moro, after he had seen the canoe bodied A3 compared to his „aircraft carrier type hulls. (5)

Unfortunately we'll have to wait and see if that's ever played out, there's no real data or comparison available.

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2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Coming to the surface too quickly they always suffer the bends.

Chuckle. TBF, glad to see the number of those who registered back in the day coming out. COVID dividend, likely.

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13 minutes ago, Rafael said:

The whole Pacific and whole Atlantic uphill still... w/ a wounded & lame boat, tough task to complete... Adding to the fact that young Dalin has no southern experience, he's never been south of Itajai. (Charal, CORUM, HB, ARKEA, PRB, Initaitives, L'Occitane, LinkedOut and now Apivia handicapped...) The Race is more open than ever

It's just starting to get really interesting, and this is why making early predictions in this race is pretty pointless most of the time.:P

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6 hours ago, ant1 said:

Passage times at cape Leeuwin longitude, does not directly reflect race standings because if you're more to the north at that longitude you're behind those who are more to the south, (should be updated regularly):

Yes the Cape call being simply one line of longitude is a bit lazy. They could easily have a Cape line taken from the Horn running west of south for timings.

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14 minutes ago, ant1 said:

Thanks. A bit over the top, but worth it for the Derek Lundy tip. I'd read his Perfect Storm years ago, but looking forward to his Godforsaken Sea: The True Story of a Race Through the World's Most Dangerous Waters

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38 minutes ago, stief said:

 

And Welcome newbies who have content not seen yet. Could use more for sure.

Wait. What?  I'm having trouble keeping up as it is.

So with Apivia clipped now as well, it is going to be very interesting to see the performance drop.

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4 minutes ago, stief said:

Thanks. A bit over the top, but worth it for the Derek Lundy tip. I'd read his Perfect Storm years ago, but looking forward to his Godforsaken Sea: The True Story of a Race Through the World's Most Dangerous Waters

Godforsaken sea is Epic one of the reasons I fell in love with the VG

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1 minute ago, Coconuts.is said:

Godforsaken sea is Epic one of the reasons I fell in love with the VG

Thanks for the endorsement. I expect Conrad C writes better. *That's* the VG book I'm waiting for :D

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24 minutes ago, Rafael said:

The whole Pacific and whole Atlantic uphill still... w/ a wounded & lame boat, tough task to complete... Adding to the fact that young Dalin has no southern experience, he's never been south of Itajai.

(CORUM, HB, ARKEA, PRB, Initaitives, DNF..., Charal & L'Occitane at the back..., LinkedOut and now Apivia handicapped...)

The Race is more open than ever

Interestingly, when discussing the new boats the general consensus seemed to be that l'occitaine was interesting but lacked the work up time to be reliable. If I am right the early issues were with furlers and the like, which arguably was bad luck and could have happened to anyone not really a design or build flaw. The Tripon was forced into a light patch to effect repairs, which seem have been succesful and the boat is good.......... in fact out of all the new boats it's in the best condition, I don't think anyone preidicted that. Imagine if he could slowly reel everyone back in ! 

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1 hour ago, Tylo said:

Quote of the day by Boris at 2:04:
After grinding for 2+ minutes: "This sheet is longer than the fucking halyard!"

 

 

1 hour ago, stief said:

Also liked the captain voice--"more cunningham" and "One way to get warm" 

The alarms sure could get irritating. Surprised he doesn't have a camera view of the hoist.

 

1 hour ago, stief said:

All? Hardly. Seemed rather tame for Sailing Anarchy. And there is already a boring thread about the lawsuit results. :lol:

 

1 hour ago, PIL66 - XL2 said:

Welcome Jimmy..... sister's tits....?

 

 

1 hour ago, jimmyuk81 said:

Lurked on here for ages but finally had an account approved... just in time to comment on ATR controversy. God help me. :rolleyes:

Regarding the theory that the bow repairs weren’t sound - not saying it’s wrong, but I’ve not seen anyone mention his speeds on starboard tack on the run into Cape Town. If the repairs hadn’t solved the issue, would he really have been pushing the boat to 20knts+ with the race over for him anyway?

Compared to his much slower speed on port, I’m more inclined to take his explanation of irreparable rudder damage at face value. 

As to the radio silence since then, who knows...

Anyway, back to the competitors still in the race. Hope Dalin’s foil issue isn’t a race ending one. :(

 

1 hour ago, Grog said:

Guess I'll stick my head out on this and probably catch some flak, but here we go:

Alex (who I like and respect) is out of the race. If some of you feel you have to follow up with speculation and gossip please take it to a dedicated thread. Since he broke the back of his boat we had more than enough pages on this VENDEE GLOBE thread filled with off topic chatter. And frankly, this chatter has been turning AT into some sort of over hyped drama queen.

He does not deserve that.

And we have a race going on, let's stick to that.

Thanks. :) 

 

 

1 hour ago, stief said:

And piss off all you lurkers who post just to post an opinion. No shortage of that here.

And Welcome newbies who have content not seen yet. Could use more for sure.

Before I join Stief with the Spaniards, following in Stief's wake (and he IMO has an indefinite free pass on speculation)  I feel a bit of personal housekeeping is in order. First, all my typos. I can only see 2/3 of the screen on my MacBook Pro because the screen is broken and on order via slo mo from Apple. Since my furnace failure, a water pipe froze and burst in the cold temperatures and being close to an outside wall and uninsulated. Plumbers busy and  n/a. It was a mess but fixed. Days short, lots of darkness, and we are in lockdown with soaring Covid #s and only 32 Covid beds in the entire State. Trump won't concede, my top two choices (Jeremie and Kevin) to win the VD are no longer in contention, etc.  With the foregoing out of the way...

There is nothing wrong with speculation on this thread unless it is personal and harmful, in my opinio, and indeed, much of what is written here is just that: speculation. The only "facts" are what is officially posted by the VD, by posters accessing weather software programs,  and usually, the race participants. Even then, it could be bs. Sometimes the sailors themselves ultimately come forward to end speculation such as when Charlie Dalin announced his boat had its mast, keel, etc. 

Posters legitimately want transparency, and feel entitled to it for reasons articulated by Jack and others. When that is lacking, it breeds speculation. This forum, and in particular Ocean Racing Anarchy, has gone off the rails on a few occasions when this happened such as in the last VOR when Vestas 11th Hour Racing hit a fishing boat in the waters outside Hong Kong and the boat's captain died. No official information was forthcoming and myriad causes and alleged failed or not used equipment and/or measures that supposedly could  have prevented the accident were proposed by ORA. Ditto in the same race when Fish was lost overboard and, again, when Veas 11th Hour Racing was dismasted and sailed into the Falklands to, ultimately, build a new mast. Some of the posts were constructive, many were not. 

As with the Vestas/Hong Kong incident, though the circumstances are not at all similar and there was certainly a political component to that situation, there may well be very legitimate, practical and, yes, legal reasons why there has not been more information provided regarding the damage to Boss, though the specter of lawyers salivating in every corner may be exaggerated. We are not all ambulance chasers; most proffer advice or their advice is sought. 

 

That said, there is one thread that is consistent throughout, and that is THAT LITTLE CHAY AND HIS FAMILY ARE EVERYWHERE! Who was enabling and providing assistance through his brother when Vestas11thHR sailed into the Falklands? Little Chay. Whose wife may or may not have had information with regard to Iceburg A68A, which Stief felt compelled to remind us, even though most of us knew, that Herman and others had mentioned above, some weeks ago? Little Chay. Whose sister took a photo of the Boss boat outside what appears to be Cape Town, with a couple of ribs nearby? Little Chay's.  Newcomers, pay heed to Little Chay.  And to Stief and Hermann. 

 

I need to go apply some "L'Occitane lotion to my wind chapped face after a quick short day on the ski slopes up the road. Today however this thread has left me with two memorable laugh out loud phrases: "Humor bypass"  and Boris Hermann's several comments. 

 pass to

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Oh, that's bad. Dali foils! Almost as bad as lawyer speak for "ORA is the best place to follow Ocean Racing." :D

To back up the point about the Forbes article linked above:  this is indeed over-the-top, no? I can see the hackles rightly rising:

Quote

Their boats are sleek, extraordinary craft—fusions of sails, hulls and foils that are neither small nor timid but designed to deftly slice across the planet while also enduring wrathful forces within the ‘Southern Ocean’—waters below 60 degrees latitude that circle the Antarctic. In 2016 racers began using hydrofoils, ungainly looking curved appendages that transform motion into buoyancy and push boats out of ocean waters so that more bulk passes through the lower friction of air instead of through viscous ocean waters. Compared to the last race, speeds on such boats will increase 10 knots (in what are known as crossed, reaching winds) and boats will be able maintain average speeds of 30 knots (34 mph, or 55 km/hr) for several hours at a time.

TBF, not written by a naval architect or a geographer, but by Tom Mullen, Contributor, Travel who writes about" lifestyle, food and wine from a base in France"

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1 hour ago, Manfred said:

All this bitching about the BOSS. I mean they had a handful of problems with the court case (regarding the >>useless foil<<) which they lost a couple days ago. I understand that it had been a costly court case and AT lost big time.  For the ones interested in the legal stuff: https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Comm/2020/3334.html

Interesting case. The claimant's barrister is (or was) a keen Solent & offshore sailor, which may explain their success.

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2 minutes ago, Snowden said:

Interesting case. The claimant's barrister is (or was) a keen Solent & offshore sailor, which may explain their success.

Every little bit of extra knowledge helps.

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1 hour ago, ant1 said:

The corner of the ice zone was tricky... they all had to wiggle past... they're now bunched up in light winds past the corner... we'll see how that plays out

Looking at the tracker, I almost began to wonder whether "mark room" applies to virtual waypoints in the middle of nowhere :P

 

Also: is it just me, or does Boris look like Dante Hicks in this shot?

Thirty SEVEN!?!?!

 

1 hour ago, Tylo said:

Quote of the day by Boris at 2:04:
After grinding for 2+ minutes: "This sheet is longer than the fucking halyard!"

 

 

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6 hours ago, ant1 said:

Imho Alex Thompson has nothing to prove, it was his fifth VG, he finished two of them, respect. His best finish so far was 2nd, just like Ellen Mac Arthur, Loick Peyron, Jean Le Cam... that's a group of pretty legendary sailors.

I don't really question Alex Thomson's fighting spirit. If he says his boat is unfit to finish, so be it. It broke down, he tried to repair it, we didn't have much news on hull integrity after that but my speculation is that the repairs weren't enough, you can only do so much out at sea. Then there was the rudder thing, whatever it was.. the last straw.

ok.png.4f87d0f6e338158252d28054bf142e84.png

4 hours ago, Bebmoumoute said:

These sailors have actually won some races though...

Nook.png.adb5b754de99612f685cc5c8203ae0e0.png WRONG. ERROR.  Perdon amigo. Just WikiCopy & WikiPaste

Thomson's Clipper Race win in 1999 made him the youngest skipper ever to win a round-the-world yacht race.[1][2] As of February 2016 he still holds this record.[1][2] He is an around the world solo sailor, and holds the 24-hour world speed sailing record for solo mono-hulls (537 nautical miles at an average speed of 22.4 knots).

Sponsored by Hugo Boss he took part in the Vendée Globe 2004/05 but was forced to retire after damage to the carbon fitting that attached the boom to the deck.[3] He also started in 2008, but had to retire from the race after a cracked hull. He was third in 2012 and second in the 2016 edition.[4] During the latter edition, Thomson set new fastest reference times from Les Sables d'Olonne to the Equator (9 days 7 h 02 min[5]) and the Cape of Good Hope (17 days 22 h 58 min[6]).

However, 13 days into the race Hugo Boss's starboard foil broke after hitting an unidentified floating object,[7] therefore hampering Alex's progress throughout the rest of the course. Of note, most of the race takes place on port tack, that is, the boat would have made good use of the missing starboard foil.[8] Despite his foil and anemometer/autopilot problems, Thomson finished the race with the second fastest time on record – 74 days 19 h 35 min 15 sec, 16h behind Armel Le Cléac'h.[4]

In the 2019 Transat Jacques Vabre race, Thomson's $7.7 million racing yacht was struck by a submerged object, forcing Thomson and his co-skipper Neal McDonald to make repairs in order to stabilise the boat.[9]   **** ADD VG2020 edition too...

Records

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2 hours ago, Grog said:

Alex (who I like and respect) is out of the race. If some of you feel you have to follow up with speculation and gossip please take it to a dedicated thread....

...And frankly, this chatter has been turning AT into some sort of over hyped drama queen.

He does not deserve that.

So please take "speculation and gossip" about a "out of the race" failure to a "dedicated thread", AT is not a "over hyped drama queen".

Grog you found the 'trees' and missed the 'woods' like many here, so not picking on you.

Sponsored competitor equals a 'contract' with the public to provide them with 'access'. The public have accepted and now have an 'equitable interest' in that team. It is a 'two way' street now.

If that public access 'switch' gets turned to 'off' and 'simultaneously' with a race ending failure, that invites 'speculation' as to 'why' and with capitals 'S' and 'W'.

The longer the public access 'switch' stays in the  'off' position, the speculation gets compounded. Remedy? If say it is a legal issue, then say that and turn 'switch' back to 'off' and issue is dealt with.

For this 2 week delay to occur from a competitor whose 'level' of public access is superior to most, this is amplified and will come at a cost in the future, if there is a future.

Anyone with a design/build interest has little interest in speculation, let alone a fucking thread about speculation.

Alex is not a "drama queen". He has broken his 'public access' contract, NOT just his rudder and that is very ordinary of him.

 

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19 minutes ago, TPG said:

Who winned the most broken boats under the same sponsor?

Another 2 more records to add to the list (longest sponsorship & number of broken boats under same happy sponsor :))

13 minutes ago, stief said:

Napoleon?

DiCap.jpg.7c50882f5c4b431b8497d09d7edd70ee.jpg

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6 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

So please take "speculation and gossip" about a "out of the race" failure to a "dedicated thread", AT is not a "over hyped drama queen'.

Grog you found the 'trees: and missed the 'woods' like many here, so not picking on you.

Sponsored competitor equals a 'contract' with the public to provide them with 'access'. The public have accepted and now have an 'equitable interest' in that team. It is a 'two way' street.

If that public access 'switch' gets turned to 'off' and 'simultaneously' with a race ending failure, that invites 'speculation' as to 'why' and with capitals 'S' and 'W'.

The longer the public access 'switch' stays in the  'off' position, the speculation gets compounded. Remedy? If say it is a legal issue, then say that and turn 'switch' back to 'off' and issue is dealt with.

For this 2 week delay to occur from a competitor whose 'level' of public access is superior to most, this is amplified and will come at a cost in the future, if there is a future.

Anyone with a design/build interest has little interest in speculation, let alone a fucking thread about speculation.

Alex is not a "drama queen", he has broken his 'public access' contract, NOT just his rudder and that is very ordinary of him.

 

No wonder that there is only one tiny access-pipe from a single team to the Anglo sailing world. It is going to explode by starvation of oxygen. 10 person team versus the world, huh? It is nowhere to go for us in the restless time of the internet. You can only blame the non-French boat industry. Not a particular sailing team. 

VOR is more popular because it is way less french than VG and there are many more pipes to feed the public. 

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