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3 hours ago, yl75 said:

I wonder why Gitana stops in Salvador de Bahia and not in Rio, when they have to go to Rio anyway (leaving Cagarras islands to port)

There a re a shitload of solo sailors now in Bahia, who can help out in preparing a lot of details. And the TJV Brazilian team can help too speeding things up..
The rudder does not fit in carry on luggage. Transport and customs must be a bit difficult.
 

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Translation of last post from "Actual Leader"   Published  Nov 17 2019 Post sent on Sunday Novembre 17th by Ronan Gladu, media man aboard "Actual Leader". "Life is sti

Hi serialsailor; for your information, "dorsale" is "ridge" in English.   And for all the French speaking challenged readers, every time you see an automatic translation of a French article

Long interview, pre-race, with Thomas Coville. https://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/ultime-coville-nos-bateaux-vont-dans-le-sens-de-l-histoire-12-11-2019-12431243.php Two days before the start

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

There a re a shitload of solo sailors now in Bahia, who can help out in preparing a lot of details. And the TJV Brazilian team can help too speeding things up..
The rudder does not fit in carry on luggage. Transport and customs must be a bit difficult.
 

Nothing is a problem in Brazil, especially there.  All you need is $$$

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

There a re a shitload of solo sailors now in Bahia, who can help out in preparing a lot of details. And the TJV Brazilian team can help too speeding things up..
The rudder does not fit in carry on luggage. Transport and customs must be a bit difficult.
 

Both these teams, like Sodebo, run 7 digits  yearly budgets and a high number of employees (crazy a it may look for one race a year), flying a repait team, toolboxes and spares is no object :unsure:

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https://www.brestatlantiques.com/actualites/le-maxi-edmond-de-rothschild-bahia

Gitana stopped in Salvador de Bahia this morning at 9h18, French time to the repair the foil damaged in a impact with a UFO. Director of the race, Jacques Caraës: "We gave them a stopping point in front of the bay of Salvador, from where they will have to leave after their stopover and where their technical team can come on board, as well as a code word to use to let us know they are in place - we chose Bazbaz, the name of a French singer! -, so that they can join motor to the Marina. "

Once at the Marina, the technical team will work on the foil, while the crew will probably take the opportunity to rest a for few hours. Charles Caudrelier: "It's weird and especially unpleasant to have to stop. We had started the race well, taking good care of the boat, we made a good navigation and made good speed. Now, it is a commando operation, as soon as you arrive at the port, you go out the foil, you repair it and if goes back on. If we leave 300 miles behind I think we can recover we will fight anyway to the finish line. "

Macif has not really slowed down, with 632 miles covered in 24 hours (26.4), but will have to stop on Wednesday afternoon in Rio de Janeiro, for a repair on the central hull rudder. Sodebo, 100 miles behind MACIF, will probably take the lead followed by Actual Leader.  Tuesday should also see a slow down for all, with weakening trade winds and an anticyclonic zone above Rio.

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2 hours ago, moody frog said:

Both these teams, like Sodebo, run 7 digits  yearly budgets and a high number of employees (crazy a it may look for one race a year), flying a repait team, toolboxes and spares is no object :unsure:

Flying stuff takes additional time. Perhaps they were able to source most of it at the TJV finish?
After all they "just" need some laminate work, no wholesale part replacement.

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3 hours ago, moody frog said:

Both these teams, like Sodebo, run 7 digits  yearly budgets and a high number of employees (crazy a it may look for one race a year), flying a repait team, toolboxes and spares is no object :unsure:

What are they getting for that.., how visible is this event in France?

If I turn on the television, is it all over  nightly news shows, and so on, or would I have to know about it and look for it?

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1 minute ago, BLAK said:

1:32 Remove the daggerboard? Is that a typo? 

No, that's why they stop apparently. I read above that they have some delamination on the mainhull daggerboard; so they have to remove it, repair, and put it back.

For MACIF, they hit something and lost their mainhull rudder. They still have small rudders on both amas but it does not seem very safe to sail that way all the way to the finish line, which is still 10,000 miles away, more or less. They are getting a spare/old rudder from Maxi Banque Populaire, shipped to Rio, to be fitted on the boat, if nothing else structural is found damaged upon further inspection.

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Just now, Laurent said:

No, that's why they stop apparently. I read above that they have some delamination on the mainhull daggerboard; so they have to remove it, repair, and put it back.

For MACIF, they hit something and lost their mainhull rudder. They still have small rudders on both amas but it does not seem very safe to sail that way all the way to the finish line, which is still 10,000 miles away, more or less. They are getting a spare/old rudder from Maxi Banque Populaire, shipped to Rio, to be fitted on the boat, if nothing else structural is found damaged upon further inspection.

Is anyone else surprised that the daggerboard on Macif was not damaged when the main hull rudder broke if it was a ONFI? These boats don't pull up their main hull daggerboards. Seems like an overload break is more likely. Or maybe the daggerboard got whacked and it's not been mentioned

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5 minutes ago, ctutmark said:

Is anyone else surprised that the daggerboard on Macif was not damaged when the main hull rudder broke if it was a ONFI? These boats don't pull up their main hull daggerboards. Seems like an overload break is more likely. Or maybe the daggerboard got whacked and it's not been mentioned

Agreed, seems strange to me as well...

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Long interview, pre-race, with Thomas Coville.

https://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/ultime-coville-nos-bateaux-vont-dans-le-sens-de-l-histoire-12-11-2019-12431243.php

Two days before the start of Brest Atlantiques, Thomas Coville gave us a long interview. The fear of breaking down, the stress of high speed sailing on a Ultimate, the choice of his crew and on board reporter, the lack of a central foil on his new innovative trimaran, his opponents, sailing solo…. Several topics were discussed.
 

The Ultimate class strives for its life in the Brest Atlantiques?
I am not at all worried every time we start a race. It would put too much pressure on yourself. Well, I admit that this class is atypical because there are few of us, we have exceptional with boats 32 meters long, 22 meters wide and masts 35 meters high. There are only four boats like that and they are at the start of this race. These four Ultimate are in France (note: there is also Idec Sport and Spindrift which do not form part of this class), this is unique but soon will have six or seven (new BP and Macif and a new owner of the current Macif). On the Route du Rhum there was a lot of damage, there is loss of Banque Populaire which was traumatic but we move forward anyway.


Do you have a knot in your stomach when you go to sea with such a machine?
Of course, I have concerns every time I sail on this boat. If you meet a guy who comes from multihulls and especially the Ultimate class and they tell you "it's cool, it's easy", you can say that the guy is crazy. These boats are extremely demanding, they are sometimes nervous and very violent, they are very noisy, but what luck, what a unique experience to be able to say that you are one of the sailors in the world who can go this fast and fly for days and days. I went to Marseille to see the final of the Sail GP, I followed the America's Cup for years, but over the 12 hours spent in Marseille, the flying catamarans sailed 40 for minutes. We will do 30 days of sailing and we will gather data as no one has ever been able to before.


The Ultimate is the best of the best according to you?
I have a very vigorous attitude of telling myself that I am lucky to be on an exceptional boat of this generation that opens a path that will inevitably be followed by other classes, other sailors, other generations. These boats go in the direction of history. For nothing in the world would I want to miss that. So yes, we are exposing ourselves with our big boats. On my new boat, there are sensors and fiber optics everywhere. To measure and understand.


Have these boats become too complicated? Are there too many sensors, screens and data?
Not at all. What will always make the difference is the man and the relationship between two guys. It's a process to understand, to learn, to feel that with each navigation, you progress, that you managed to do what you were not even able to imagine five years ago.


Between your old and your new maxi-trimaran, do you feel you have gone to another dimension?
I have not made that leap in 20 years! When I accelerate with Sodebo 3, I no longer hide, I avoid hiding. It's the opposite of what I was doing on the other boat. When I'm sailing on a reach I have more anxiety about the foil in the air than the foil in the water. I almost had to learn how to sail multihulls again. I did not think I would be at this point. And when we have the central foil, we will learn again.


The lack of the central foil?
The new central foil will allow the boat to fly more. The "ray" foil does not necessarily allow you to go faster. At 45 knots your near the limit. On the other hand, it allows you to take off sooner and thus fly earlier. From 13 knots wind. Without the central foil one is less efficient under several VMG angle conditions. Sometimes it means we're going 4 knots slower. This will probably influence our trajectories.


Despite the lack of this foil you have already reached high speeds. Did you expect to go so fast, so soon?
No. And what amazes me is the ease with which one reaches such speeds. We have already reached 40 nodes without difficulty. On the other boat, when you went to 30-35 knots, it was intense. Yes, 10 knots faster, it's huge! At 30 knots, you do not even look at anything. To be honest, I regret that I did not put this central foil in place earlier because we set the boat up faster than expected. It was planned to put it in place but not at the start. It is under construction and will be ready in January 2020. It is a turbo in 12-20 knots of wind. It allows you to take off earlier, so you can use the boat's performance earlier in fairly easy conditions. Finally, the 'ray' foil is no longer very useful above 25 knots wind. It makes it possible to hold altitude, to stabilize it, to use it. This appendix must be used as if it were a 'sail in the air'. The 'ray' foil is a sail in the water: it is 1.15 m² in the water,and gives you almost the performance of 50 m² of extra sail. This opens an important field of possibilities.


On the videos, we see that you are exposed with your cockpit in front of the mast ...
There is a lot of sea spray but it is not more violent. On the other hand, I see the bow and, at the helm, I see where I am going. Well, from time to time, it is better not to see (laughs) because it goes so fast. At night, with this boat or with the other (old boat), you do not see whats going on and sometimes it's better like that. To get back to the cockpit, I see everything I do when I furl a sail. On the other boat, you had to go outside to see if I had furled a sail, I came back in, I re-rolled, etc ...


Is this Brest Atlantiques a preparation race around the world solo?
No, I do not believe in so-called training or preparation races. This is a real confrontation where we will all use each other to know where to put the order. To push the boats as we do not push them in training. Competition will always be better than any training to find the limits of the boat and those of the skipper. This race will allow us to know our strengths, our weak points. Since the launch, we have sailed for nearly 100 days, it's huge.


Why did you choose to leave with Jean-Luc Nélias, 57, who does not always have an easy character?
There were others on the list: I had maybe Thomas Rouxel or Sam Goodchild but also a sailor like Quentin Delapierre. What Jean-Luc brings is someone who is part of the design and development of the boat. He has a character that differs from those I mentioned but he is able to disagree, able to impose over his point of view. In this year of development, it allows us to try more things with Jean-Luc than someone athletic but that will just help me go where we already know that the boat can go. Jean-Luc has the perfect profile, for the weather, he has experience, he has the physique. We know each other well, he does not always agree with me, he can challenge me or, on the contrary, ask me to slow down. For example, with the cockpit at the front, he immediately told me: "I would not have done that." And me, I like that in the team, a guy who tells me that. Every day, he tells me he does not like this cockpit up front ... Jean-Luc is like that. And on a boat like mine I must not have a yes man by my side. On the Volvo Ocean Race, it is not by accident that Franck Cammas chose him. Franck already knew he would not get along with Jean-Luc but he needed him.


What do you think about a reporter on board?
I wanted an athlete. A guy able to hold on and a sailor. When I saw Martin Keruzoré windsurfing and doing double loops, I realized he was not a novice. He knows what it's like to go fast. He is not afraid of speed, he knows how to stay on board. There are not very many who have done the Volvo Ocean Race and have that level. We took him training and once Martin approached me and said: "Do you think I can launch the drone? ". I loved this attitude but I asked him if he was sure he could get his drone back. He said to me, "No, not at all but it does not matter". There, I found myself in a fight with a drone in a large sea, with wind, and I said to myself: "We live a crazy time, it's science fiction. " But, initially, I was skeptical about having a reporter on board. Jean-Luc was also against it and he clearly expressed it. Then, I thought it was an experience to try at least in the race. We will do a debriefing on finishing to learn if it is too much or not enough, good or bad. But it's an important element, Martin's attitude will not be neutral.

Let's talk about the forces involved ...
Gitana is starting to reap the benefits of the work they started three years ago now. They are boosted by the energy of Franck Cammas, his experience and his intrinsic qualities as a competitor and developer. Today, they are the ones who are best in control of flying. On the other hand, it is a boat which, for me, will be less slower and more quickly exhausted than a trimaran like Macif. Macif is more like his skipper: he takes off earlier in the air, he is lighter. François Gabart has a more aerial way of sailing. Franck Cammas and Charles Caudrelier are more posed, less engaged than the crew of Macif. They are different boats. Gitana is a reliable trimaran,with very specific choices. I'm learning a lot by watching him and trying to understand what Guillaume Verdier wanted to do. There are interesting things, exciting, far enough from what we designed on Sodebo 3 but I like to understand this boat. Macif has evolved very well, François has managed to evolve it but he is now at the end of evolution. He is at the end of what he can do with it. Macif is very nice and stable and has almost won everything, it's almost a perfect to a fault and a boat that was not planned to do what it is doing. Finally, Actual Leader, I know him very well (ex-Sodebo 2). Yves Le Blevec and Alex Pella were good. They're going to be "hogs," those two are consumers, they're hungry. It was important for Yves to start well with this boat, to erase the loss of the his other boat. This is good for them, they do it in a good time.


One day, you will be alone on this machine. Is it completely crazy to want to sail a Ultimate flying solo around the world?
But I have already done it solo. It's not crazy! Around the world alone, I think about it. Since François Gabart's crazy run (42 days), I want to go back. Besides, I want to go alone around the world. It would be  a mistake to go right away. We decided to do a double handed race in the Atlantic first and that's fine. We do not all agree in this class, far from it even, but we know how to listen to each other. We have been able to adapt the program and if we had not done that, I think that Banque Populaire would not have started the construction of a second boat after the loss of the first one. Our interest is to advance together: to be four this time but six tomorrow and maybe seven or eight later. We will never be 30 on the line. This class is out of the ordinary.

 

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1 hour ago, us7070 said:

What are they getting for that.., how visible is this event in France?

If I turn on the television, is it all over  nightly news shows, and so on, or would I have to know about it and look for it?

Daily small reports in the press, a few TV and radio news - not everyday - + prior and later interviews with the skippers. B to B meetings etc... for them to organize.

RTW records get big coverage though.

Gitana is a "special case"

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Interesting that the "replacement" rudder for Macif comes from Banque Populaire. Wondering if it is a bit salvaged from the wreckage in the RdR or if it was a spare?  How similar are those parts?

At least currently Banque Populaire have no use for a rudder, as there is no more tri to attach on top of it...

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So this is something Seb is up to these days.

https://www.brestatlantiques.com/actualites/vers-une-traversee-rio-le-cap-au-pres

191112_MxH_polaRYSE_Gitana_1024.jpg?itok=L-i_kzwg

Photo: Yann Riou / PolaRyse / Gitana SA

Every Tuesday, Sébastien Josse, a consultant to the race director, reviews the previous week of "Brest Atlantiques".

Let's first talk about the departure of "Brest Atlantiques" and the descent into the Bay of Biscay, how did it go for the four trimarans?
They all sailed like sailors, leaving with one or two reefs and without a head sail; they did not have much choice. They knew that there were six hours where they had to be careful in strong conidtions. The difference with the Route du Rhum last year is that it was more open, VMG reaching, so less demanding for boats. They left quite quickly, at 28 knots on average. They all were careful and after four to five hours, the trimaran MACIF unfurled its head sail and immediately gained 4-5 knots. Maxi Edmond de Rothschild geared up. They are all competitors: when François came up against Franck it immediately was on.

Subsequently, there were different strategic choices, why do you think?
Yes, the Maxi Edmond de Rothschild and Actual Leader went under the DST but it was not necessary. The optimum route was more the one followed by MACIF to the west. I think this trajectory inside was linked to the sea state, it was a bit wiser. Afterwards it's always difficult because you know you'll be behind.

After, there was a battle of gybes ...
Yes, with much more irregular winds than forecast. In particular, when one makes a circuit around an anticyclone it is more stable. Maxi Edmond de Rothschild gybed first, then did two more gybes. I think they tried to escape a cloud under which they were stuck, they probably also wanted to avoid getting closer to the anticyclone, because that boat is heavier. Again, the routes look better to the west, but the Maxi Edmond de Rothschild crossed in front of Macif anyway, because the boat is the fastest in the fleet. It has the advantage, they are always a little faster, a little lower. We had already seen this on the Route du Rhum and the training sessions this year. Which is normal, 30 meters against 32.

How was the crossing of doldrums?
I think they all looked at what happened on the Transat Jacques Vabre. Since it went well enough in the east, it's always better to have benchmarks in front of you. Maxi Edmond de Rothschild did well. I think that in the light areas the damage of rudder of MACIF was a penalty: at high speed, beyond 25 knots, it is a plus to not have a central rudder because it drags less. However, at low speed, in less than 15 knots, the boat becomes difficult to handle, they could have lost control and made some a wipe out. So, to always have control of the boat you use less sail and its complicated when driving; but François excels in the field. He still did a Route du Rhum last year with a third of his appendages gone!

Do you think the Maxi Edmond de Rothschild has been penalized by its foil problem?
Yes, I think that between the Doldrums and Bahia, they should have been flying with a 35 knots average, or even beyond, while they have rarely above 30 knots.

Will the two technical stops of Maxi Edmond de Rothschild in Bahia and the MACIF trimaran in Rio generate a gap in favor of Sodebo Ultim 3 and Actual?
It obviously depends on the time of the stops; but yes, inevitably. When you stop, as these boats go at more than 25 knots minimum, it allows those behind to quickly come back. So Sodebo will take the lead, it can open it up for him if he has no damage and he does not need to stop. We know that this race will be full of twists with these pit stops that are completely part of the game.

How do you judge so far Sodebo Ultim 3 and Actual Leader?
Actual Leader we knew, has a speed deficit compared to the others, which was detrimental to him at the beginning of the race, because he did not have the same angles of descent, he is slower than the others. After seeing the rest of the program in the South Atlantic, it will be different. There will no doubt be a compression in his favor. And anyway, he can still beat the others to the podium or even to victory. If he never stops and everyone else stops he can win! As for Sodebo Ultim 3, we see that it is a little slower than the Maxi Edmond de Rothschild and trimaran MACIF at times. This is related to the fact that it does not have a foil on the central hull, but it is a known choice. I remember hearing Thomas say, two years ago, that he had designed this boat for the solo world tour that was planned initially to run at the end of this year and that in this light, he did not want to have too much risk, believing that reliability was paramount.

Let's talk about the rest of the program: how is the route to Cape Town in the South Atlantic?
Complicated! For now, the road is blocked by the St. Helena anticyclone which is very far South. Picking up a system in the south as is traditionally done seems difficult, you find yourself blocked by both the anticyclone and the ice limit which is quite far to the north. The option seems to be go north of the anticyclone upwind for a while. For the moment, this part of the race between Rio and Cape Town looks to be with a headwind.

And the upwind is not very pleasant ...
Not necessarily. Today, on these boats foiling you can go 28-30 knots offshore. They are mounted on shock absorbers giving a comfort level, it is not so unpleasant, they sail very flat. It will however be less comfortable for Actual Leader who does not foil like the others. Otherwise, the downside is that it is a little harder on the boat.

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32 minutes ago, ague said:

Interesting that the "replacement" rudder for Macif comes from Banque Populaire. Wondering if it is a bit salvaged from the wreckage in the RdR or if it was a spare?  How similar are those parts?

At least currently Banque Populaire have no use for a rudder, as there is no more tri to attach on top of it...

It is the one salvaged from the RdR 

http://sport24.lefigaro.fr/voile/actualites/gabart-va-changer-son-safran-casse-par-celui-de-le-cleac-h-981381#xtor=AL-5

Quote

Et c’est là qu’intervient la fameuse « solidarité des gens de mer ». L’Ultim Macif sera en effet équipé d’un safran de rechange qui n’appartient pas à l’équipe de François Gabart mais à celle de Banque Populaire. Celle là même qui a vécu un grave traumatisme lors de la dernière Route du rhum, avec la dislocation de l’Ultim d’Armel le Cléac’h. « Le groupe Macif remercie le team Banque Populaire pour avoir fourni ce safran de secours au team Macif » : en conclusion de son communiqué du jour annonçant ce stop à Rio, l’équipe de Gabart a tenu à remercier sa « rivale » pour l’instant à pied concernant cette catégorie Ultim, Armel Le Cléac’h venant d’achever la Transat Jacques Vabre à Salvador de Bahia, à quelques milliers de kilomètres de Rio, sur le monocoque Imoca aux côtés de Clarisse Crémer. 

I don't think any team has spares right now for rudders and foils (maybe old ones)

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On 11/7/2019 at 3:37 PM, Groucho Marx said:

Go. Go back to your silly toys, go.

A word in your shell-like ear ...Vaton design 35 years ago.

Absolute nonsense!!!

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Sodebo should come out of this with quite a good lead on everyone but the first part of the crossing to Africa doesn't look good.  That way point off Rio combined with the Ice Zone will make life difficult,

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4 minutes ago, jb5 said:

Sodebo should come out of this quite a good lead on everyone but the first part of the crossing to Africa doesn't look good.  That way point off Rio combined with the Ice Zone will make life difficult,

I can't remember seeing an ice limit so far north,  are there actually growlers up there?

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1 minute ago, Raked Aft\\ said:

I can't remember seeing an ice limit so far north,  are there actually growlers up there?

Certainly very far north.  Will mess with the VG if its like that next year and maybe even a Jules Verne attempt, although they can do pretty much what they want.  Its right in the area where they usually hook onto the front of a system get moving.

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I thought the no-wind area South of Salvador de Bahia would collapse by the time the Gitana team boat would get back in the race. This would have been ideal for them, MACIF and Sodebo slowed for a long period of time while they do their repair in Salvador, and then they get slowed only a little bit.

It seems that it is the exact opposite which is happening! I don't see them getting out of this no-wind area quickly. Actually, they may take much longer to get across it now, than MACIF and Sodebo did yesterday...

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5 minutes ago, Raked Aft\\ said:

Interesting,  Macif rounded the waypoint (islands) prior to heading into port.

 Probably to leave the best options open for their departure..

 

 

I saw that... I'm sure what you said is why (to allow for them to rip out of port at any angle they want without having go through the gate).

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1 hour ago, Laurent said:

An additional factor might be that the spare rudder has not cleared Customs yet...

Fuck my insurance fee is going to raise because af the bribe they gonna have to pay.

Fuck that, if it's to keep Macif in contention for the win, i'll happilly eat some pastas more often !

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2 hours ago, Laurent said:

An additional factor might be that the spare rudder has not cleared Customs yet... one more reason to get the rounding of the islands out of the way. I sure hope for them that it is not the issue.

Highly unlikely, they will have gone by courier on an air france flight.

I suspect MACIF looked at the weather, knew they could sail until they had to turn into the southern ocean so chose to do the light air crossing while they could. GITANA needed to stop ASAP or risk further damage to their skate foil, which would be unrepairable and tough to replace longer term.

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The official tracker:

https://www.brestatlantiques.com/

claims: Sodebo ultim 3 Retard 02:01

Gitana and Actual leader move between 02:01 and 04:00 (France time), but Sodebo and Macif stay where they are.

This https://www.sodebo.com/article/cartographie-brest-atlantiques/

also has the same between 02:01 and 04:00 (france time).

Just a computer clitch or a real problem for Sodebo?

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14 hours ago, jb5 said:

Certainly very far north.  Will mess with the VG if its like that next year and maybe even a Jules Verne attempt, although they can do pretty much what they want.  Its right in the area where they usually hook onto the front of a system get moving.

I really don't know why they have put that limit so North, to maximize security for sure, but growlers at 37° South ??

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They are saying that they take some time to think about the best course to follow considering the high possition and the low forming below Rio, but it seems strange to me , why not continuing South East ? (to escape the low coming fast I guess, but seems a bit early)

 

 

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If they know the timing of the position report by the race organizers, it looks intentional to me. The tracker is probably the only mean for other teams to track anyone else report and with 4h updates, it might be worth it for Sodebo to head north for 20 min and not give anything about their intention. The other teams will have to commit by the time the next positions are reported. The routing to Africa doesn't seem that obvious.

If not for that, I don't get why they would stall instead of continuing on their route. Most teams have been opened about their issues so far and no such report from Sodebo yet.

 

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29 minutes ago, jb5 said:

20+ knots the wrong way so must be heading back to Rio.  That's a shame if its true.  Looked around for any news but found nothing.

Sodebo crew some minutes ago announce to Brest Atlantic race management that they try to avoid a significant low just on the track to Cape Town. Maybe they look now to a shelter zone before coming back in racing mode. Maybe Gitana will do the same ???

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35 minutes ago, oceanwwgg said:

Sodebo crew some minutes ago announce to Brest Atlantic race management that they try to avoid a significant low just on the track to Cape Town. Maybe they look now to a shelter zone before coming back in racing mode. Maybe Gitana will do the same ???

Yup. Press release now on the race site.  Summary below

https://www.brestatlantiques.com/actualites/la-course-est-totalement-relancee

Twisted day on "Brest Atlantiques"! While Gitana passed the archipelago of Cagarras, off Rio, and Actor Leader is preparing to do so, Sodebo Ultim, who had taken control of the race, turned back at the start of the Atlantic crossing: Thomas Coville and Jean-Luc Nélias chose to preserve the boat. The trimaran MACIF returned to race at 17:10.

When Gitana headed south-east, Sodebo, who was then 200 miles ahead of him, suddenly turned around. "Given the current weather conditions in the area, Thomas Coville and Jean-Luc Nélias decided to delay. They are studying with their land based router the best route to take to reach Cape Town in the best compromise between safety and performance, " explained their team. Warned by Thomas Coville, the race director Jacques Caraës added: "They felt that the conditions were too harsh to continue on this south-east axis, Thomas preferred to turn back to preserve his boat ".

The conditions in question? "The obvious option was to go down to the front of a south-easterly low, but it required high average speeds in the face of a large sea, otherwise you ended up being trapped between the depression and the ice limit. They have probably decided not to take the risk with the boat, " says Christian Dumard, weather consultant for the race direction.

"Brest Atlantiques" is fully restarted, since the courses of Gitana and Sodebo start to converge, while Actual is approaching Cagarras and should meet up with Macif.

Jour10_Yann_Riou_PolaRYSE_GITANA%20SA_6.jpg?itok=ENH-zsmg

Photo: Yann Riou / PolaRyse / Gitana SA

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Bizarre.... I can't remember ever seeing anything like this change of track by Sodebo... truly a 180-degree course back toward the start gate of this leg, I'm assuming they will tack back to the northeast soon, but man, it looks crazy and more like they broke something and have to go back to Rio to fix it than simply changing mind  about their previous choice of route.

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Pretty wild, Gitana & Sodebo are on collision course (nearly opposite directions), just 15 miles apart.  Fascinating race this has been, considering the conditions of the start, pretty comparable performance between the top 3, the boat repairs, and now this brutal weather situation.

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1 minute ago, GauchoGreg said:

Pretty wild, Gitana & Sodebo are on collision course (nearly opposite directions), just 15 miles apart.  Fascinating race this has been, considering the conditions of the start, pretty comparable performance between the top 3, the boat repairs, and now this brutal weather situation.

I can't agree with you more!

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4 minutes ago, Wess said:

Well as a multihull owner and fan I gotta say... how sad... that the designs and builds are this fragile. 

I agree with you. I'm sure there is some worry about a RDR repeat and everything but makes me wonder how these boats can expect to do around the world races. Record attempts maybe. 

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21 minutes ago, jb5 said:

I agree with you. I'm sure there is some worry about a RDR repeat and everything but makes me wonder how these boats can expect to do around the world races. Record attempts maybe. 

Didn't Macif already do a lap in a race mode of sorts? 

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9 minutes ago, Funslut said:

Surely Sodebo has broken something to pull a 180 and head for Rio ,reaching at only 16 knots  

Yeah, I'm not buying that they just are going to take a different route anymore.  Clearly, they are heading back to port, not just looking for a nicer route.

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1 hour ago, jb5 said:

I agree with you. I'm sure there is some worry about a RDR repeat and everything but makes me wonder how these boats can expect to do around the world races. Record attempts maybe. 

I wonder how the reliability of an F1 car compares... I HAVE to guess that those are about 100% more reliable.

If we need to make these things 5kts slower but actually able to have a proper race then so be it... IMO

(an unpopular opinion I'm sure against all armchair sailors that things speed = good racing).

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14 minutes ago, Floating Duck said:

I wonder how the reliability of an F1 car compares... I HAVE to guess that those are about 100% more reliable.

If we need to make these things 5kts slower but actually able to have a proper race then so be it... IMO

(an unpopular opinion I'm sure against all armchair sailors that things speed = good racing).

Are all of the boats still racing (as far as we know)?  Have any ever made it around the world?  Is this effectively a tune up race for effectively a whole new generation of boats.

Gitana and Macif could have both absolutely kept racing if they needed to, but they had the opportunity to stop, so did.  Making either 5knts slower would not have prevented any of the damage they incurred.

Relax and enjoy the absolute pinnacle of sailing development for the open ocean, or pay attention to a slower race if you like.  There are plenty of crappy one-design races to follow, if that is your thing.  This is NOT, and we don't need it fucked up.

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Article with anonymous sources

https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/bateau/ultim/brest-atlantiques-le-demi-tour-de-sodebo-3-l-explication-des-pros-4a18eb5e-071f-11ea-878d-1b0132577bfc

 

 ATLANTIC BREST. The Sodebo 3 U-turn: the Pros' explanation

Largely in the lead after the successive stops in Brazil of Maxi Edmond de Rothschild in Salvador de Bahia and Macif in Rio de Janeiro, Thomas Coville and Jean-Luc Nélias, on Sodebo 3, turned back on Thursday afternoon. Rarely seen in offshore racing! Didier Ravon conducted the investigation.
Faced with the storm on their course, Thomas Coville and Jean-Luc Nélias chose to turn back on Thursday evening "as a precaution".


In 1976, battered by the terrible depressions that followed, Eric Tabarly on Pen Duick VI turned around, before changing his mind and winning his second English Transat. By looking carefully at the mapping, and also thanks to the incredibly reliable weather forecasts today, Sodebo's route from 3 to 180 degrees from the road to South Africa is being questioned.

Considering its speed - more than 25 knots! - It's hard to imagine a technical problem, even if these multihulls have staggering performances, one rudder or one drift less. The routers are in full swing after 6,000 miles covered by average freaks!

 

 

Severe depression then dorsal

We therefore tried to find out more and interviewed eminent specialists, well-informed informants who did not wish to be quoted. We promise, we do not give our sources... but they are reliable we can assure you!
[The Ultim Sodebo 3 is of course built to withstand the worst weather, but Thomas Coville has chosen to spare his horse in the South Atlantic]
The Ultim Sodebo 3 is of course designed to withstand the worst weather conditions, but Thomas Coville has chosen to spare his horse in the South Atlantic.

"In fact the weather situation is interesting" says the first one: "If you look at the 7-day forecasts, you realize that if you leave Rio between now and in 2 days, you arrive at the same time in Cape Town. This is due to a solid ridge of ice that jams just north of the ice line and prevents any passage. »

"In addition, a small snarling depression is mistreating the fleet on the night of November 14, and tomorrow, with strong northeasterly winds of 30-40 knots and heavy seas. »

"So there are several options: one, you wait at the bistro in Rio for two days before leaving. Secondly, if you have minor damage but it could get worse, you also have a stand in Rio (which Macif did; N.D.L.R.). Three, you come back to wait for the friends to get away from the depression before heading south again. »

"After all, we are at sea and ready to jump if things change. So we can see who has chosen what... To sum up, it's about being on November 18 somewhere on the approach to the ridge, in good shape and in good spirits for a new start after the fleet has been grouped..."

The second expert does not say anything else but remains more measured: "Coville and Nélias, who have a little bit of experience (a good ten Cape Horn between them), have made a good decision as a sailor. Going into the hard with strong wind, cross seas and heavy swells was more than risky. Going back round, turning back to let the depression pass was clearly the solution. »

The third, who totally agrees with this decision, does not mince his words, not without humour: "With these press releases from big companies that make the Pravda of the late Brezhnev look like a libertarian newspaper, we no longer know what to do...". It's said!

What we are certain of on Thursday evening is that Atlantic Brest is back on track, and exciting.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

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24 minutes ago, serialsailor said:

So it seems like they of a "dorsale" that makes them arrive at the same time in the Cape whether they leave rio now or in 2 days. They basically can't go through it until it starts diminishing.

Which explains why they are taking their time.

Hi serialsailor; for your information, "dorsale" is "ridge" in English.

 

And for all the French speaking challenged readers, every time you see an automatic translation of a French article on sailboat and the word "drift" shows up rather surprisingly in the middle of a sentence, try to replace it with "daggerboard".

The word "dérive" in French means BOTH:

"drift" (i.e. the action of sailing sideways)

AND

"daggerboard" ("the device designed to avoid "drift").

 

Yep... same word for a phenomenom and the device to thwart it... That's French, you know...

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Well, sounds like I should eat my words from my last post.  An already incredibly interesting race just got more interesting.  Can't remember ever seeing a strategic move to go back to the start with the idea that they could get to the finish at the same time as if they kept going toward the finish.... but if that is really true, I would take the two days checking out the beach scene in Rio, too.  But it has to be a gamble in its own right, that the weather will remain as bad as they expect, without a window to slip through.  If Gitana finds such, then they will win by a massive margin.  But that old saying, to finish first, one must first finish certainly comes to mind.

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I think Sodebo's budget is a little lower (or maybe a lot, I doubt they would build a new boat if this was destroyed) and he is a bit more cautious having the newest boat in the fleet. I have also witnessed such forecasts that never appeared, but were less concerned about sailing into them because the sea state was arguably manageable and there were escape options. In this case, I would not want to be in the south atlantic going upwind in 40kts true on a brand new boat with no where to go but into an ice field, multihull, monohull or aircraft carrier. Its simply not safe, no matter if the boat can handle it or not. Gitana know this as well, based on the reports they are gambling that the low will not appear or intensify as quickly as some models are suggesting. Keep in mind also that strong lows can often only be predicted to within ~150 miles of the track within 24hrs. Further, only Gitana and maybe the race director have accurate VPP's of each boat and Gitana is the fastest in the fleet...their odds of outrunning the storm are higher than others.

Further, these boats were never originally built to be raced against one another on a course with a fixed start time...they are designed for outright record passages. Those course windows are set by predicting the fronts moving over the andes and coming into the south atlantic along with a good weather window to the equator. Ice limits are also part of the equation. Having any sort of fixed schedule like this race throws most of that out the window.

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What a show this restart is shaping up to be. I've been getting such a kick out of watching the absurd distances that are eclipsed between each transmission. Absolutely unreal, I think there is a legitimate future in Ultime racing like this, not just record attempts. 

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5 hours ago, samc99us said:

 

Further, these boats were never originally built to be raced against one another on a course with a fixed start time...they are designed for outright record passages. Those course windows are set by predicting the fronts moving over the andes and coming into the south atlantic along with a good weather window to the equator. Ice limits are also part of the equation. Having any sort of fixed schedule like this race throws most of that out the window.

No they were, although the program has changed since the class was created, but races were always part of the prgram.

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1 hour ago, Wild Things said:

What a show this restart is shaping up to be. I've been getting such a kick out of watching the absurd distances that are eclipsed between each transmission. Absolutely unreal, I think there is a legitimate future in Ultime racing like this, not just record attempts. 

Between the Fastnet and Route de Rhum and this event, they do seem to be able have closer finishes than other ocean races despite the boats being so fast. In general this just feels like the elite professional sailing real deal.  

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4 hours ago, yl75 said:

No they were, although the program has changed since the class was created, but races were always part of the prgram.

They should be on the start line of the Transat next year.  Will be interesting to see how that goes given IMOCA can start in pretty much any weather. Maybe some of them will also try for the around the world record at the end of the year as well.  I would think Gitana would be keen to do that, probably with a very small crew (JV). Macif will be about to be replaced so maybe not.

That turn around cost Sodebo big time.  Well over 200 miles of lead and now 3rd.

 

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1 hour ago, yl75 said:

Quick translation for those who what it

Can you describe your current conditions off Cabo Frio?
Upwind conditions in a large sea are difficult, it's hard to find the right settings on Sodebo, we can not go as fast as the others, we saw that already at some points in the first week . We try all the options, we do not have all the setup yet, we are a little step behind, we saw Gitana go very fast, François had to slow a little earlier than us, he we have a little overpowered. Everyone is also in his tempo, with the knowledge of his boat, we have a new boat. It's very uncomfortable at the moment, I do not know how they are going at higher speeds. We are aware that we have a small deficit in knowledge of the boat to play with the best. But hey, everything is going very well on board, with Jean-Luc, we always get along as well,

Can you discuss your decision to turn around on Thursday?
When we arrived in Rio, François had stopped to repair, so we were at the head of the race. There were two options that emerged, one when we arrived: considering the direction of the wind and the sea there was, we had no choice but to leave to the south and try to pass under this big depression then go around it. After a nap, Jean-Luc tells me: Thomas, I do not know how to tell you this, but we're not going as fast as expected, the depression is catching up with us and we're going to be stuck in 45-50 knots between the depression that catches up with us and the ice zone. we will have to move forward is a bad sea state. We decided to tack and we tried to go north. However we had fallen into the bad timing with the depression, so that we have made 150 miles in one direction and 150 in the other upwind in the large sea. For the morale, it was not terrible, because we did not stop, but we determined that we would end up in an unfavorable situation. This is a bit of a disaster scenario for us in terms of strategy and timing in relation to the weather. It's even worse than being stuck in the Doldrums. We finally went back to Rio at the wrong time compared to the weather situation that was available to us in the South Atlantic. And those who stopped did not suffer and when they came back, they were fully racing in the right place.

It must have been a difficult decision to make ...
It's true that when we made this decision, I was really disillusioned and not happy, because if we managed to pass under this depression, we would have found ourselves with a very comfortable lead, we would be a system ahead of the others. Making this decision to turn back to be safe was very difficult. I wanted to go on but the reason was that it was dangerous to continue. It's hard to accept losing so much of a lead.

Can you tell us about this very complicated Atlantic?
The result is indeed very complicated, we are upwind in a rough and large sea. It is difficult to have the same pace as the others, but we are working on it. Anyway there are such impacts on the boat that we think we're only halfway through the race and maybe we need to let them go ahead. We will have a lot of maneuvers in the next few hours, the conditions will strengthen tomorrow night before we approach the anticyclone where we should regroup again with weaker winds. But it's still a bit far away. Now we try to operate the boat without causing it much stress which is not easy.

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https://www.brestatlantiques.com/actualites/vacation-francois-gabart-dans-un-shaker

Interview with Macif, Gabart (trimaran MACIF)

How are the living conditions on board

We are in a 'shaker', the boat moves, there is a large sea, wind, there is a swell in front of us, it is not easy to go fast, it hits the boat hard. It's always the same, we must find the right compromise, it should last a few hours rather than a few days. In the bunk, it is necessary to use the seatbelt, Gweno slept with the helmet on just now, when you sleep, the body is released and when the bed jumps, the body jumps with it, it is not very simple . But in my seat I'm relatively safe I can do everything without moving too much, I can check the weather, talk to you, eat, but this morning, when I had a bowl of cereal I had to be concentrate, do not fill it to the brim, otherwise you will end up with cereal on your feet.

The stop in Rio.

It was so weird. Making a stopover during a race, it's always very special, we always fight to go faster and all of a sudden we are no longer moving, we end up with the team in town. It is always very surprising and strange, in terms of emotions, it also impacts you a lot, we meet the team then we say goodbye again, it's pretty emotional, it's a pretty extraordinary experience. Technical stopovers in a race, I did not make many but I remember a stopover on the Barcelona World Race with Michel Desjoyeaux in 2010 in Recife, it was a little similar, I'll remember it all my life and it will be the same for this one. It was a little longer than we thought, simply because the damage was a little larger than we imagined. But the team did a great job, they had already worked hard the previously in Brittany because it was necessary to modify the rudder, the post (?) was changed, the team had a few sleepless nights, they have worked hard, the most important thing is that we can leave in good condition with a boat in good shape, which is the case.

The continuation of the race.

Since the high (south Atlantic) is in the way we will end up crossing Rio-Cape Town in complex conditions upwind for almost two-thirds of the way to Gough Island and then there will a part in the anticyclone where there will be very little wind, we will not go very fast. It's a shame, because I imagined rather this crossing between Rio and the Cape to be full in a flat sea, I dreamed about it these last months. Unfortunately, it will not be like that this time. But we do not really have a choice except to stay in front of this depression to try to get towards the anticyclone and see in the coming days if there are windows that are good.

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https://www.brestatlantiques.com/actualites/vacation-franck-cammas-un-nouveau-depart-pour-la-course

Interview with Gitana, Cammas

Conditions.

We currently have 25-28 knots of wind with a large sea, it's not very comfortable, it shales a lot, it's hard to stand up. But we have the ability to do it.

The passage to Rio.

The conditions were pretty odd yesterday at the Rio crossing in the light weather, it was not summer conditions we expected to have in Rio, it was cool and gray, it was pretty odd for Rio.

The race restarted

We did not expect to get ourselves back in front yet but it's also related to the circumstances of our competitors. We lost a lot of time in weather conditions that were not good after Bahia, but now it's nice to be in the lead and it's a new start for the race. The boat is back to its full potential, we did what we wanted in the allotted time on land, we are happy to have done that because the boat was not very efficient before our stop.

The continuation of the race

We're going to have a difficult 48 hours so it's not great and we have an anticyclone in front of us, so we'll see how to see what happens ... For the moment, we have this wind from the northeast and the sea is very unpleasant. We still have a few difficult days to endure, we are going to have the same wind angle for quite some time, we have gone to save the boat a bit, I'm happy to have moved away from the center of the depression because we did not gain much, so we looked for easier/safer routes to spare the boat, I hope that the wind will turn and then it will make sailing a little easier.

 

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5 minutes ago, jb5 said:

https://www.brestatlantiques.com/actualites/vacation-francois-gabart-dans-un-shaker

Interview with Macif, Gabart (trimaran MACIF)

How are the living conditions on board

We are in a 'shaker', the boat moves, there is a large sea, wind, there is a swell in front of us, it is not easy to go fast, it hits the boat hard. It's always the same, we must find the right compromise, it should last a few hours rather than a few days. In the bunk, it is necessary to use the seatbelt, Gweno slept with the helmet on just now, when you sleep, the body is released and when the bed jumps, the body jumps with it, it is not very simple . But in my seat I'm relatively safe I can do everything without moving too much, I can check the weather, talk to you, eat, but this morning, when I had a bowl of cereal I had to be concentrate, do not fill it to the brim, otherwise you will end up with cereal on your feet.

The stop in Rio.

It was so weird. Making a stopover during a race, it's always very special, we always fight to go faster and all of a sudden we are no longer moving, we end up with the team in town. It is always very surprising and strange, in terms of emotions, it also impacts you a lot, we meet the team then we say goodbye again, it's pretty emotional, it's a pretty extraordinary experience. Technical stopovers in a race, I did not make many but I remember a stopover on the Barcelona World Race with Michel Desjoyeaux in 2010 in Recife, it was a little similar, I'll remember it all my life and it will be the same for this one. It was a little longer than we thought, simply because the damage was a little larger than we imagined. But the team did a great job, they had already worked hard the previously in Brittany because it was necessary to modify the rudder, the post (?) was changed, the team had a few sleepless nights, they have worked hard, the most important thing is that we can leave in good condition with a boat in good shape, which is the case.

The continuation of the race.

Since the high (south Atlantic) is in the way we will end up crossing Rio-Cape Town in complex conditions upwind for almost two-thirds of the way to Gough Island and then there will a part in the anticyclone where there will be very little wind, we will not go very fast. It's a shame, because I imagined rather this crossing between Rio and the Cape to be full in a flat sea, I dreamed about it these last months. Unfortunately, it will not be like that this time. But we do not really have a choice except to stay in front of this depression to try to get towards the anticyclone and see in the coming days if there are windows that are good.

Would like to see on board footage,
High seas and 23 knots, using the seat belt, unable to eat.
But they are being paid to do this...

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https://www.brestatlantiques.com/actualites/vacation-yves-le-blevec-ce-n-est-vraiment-pas-drole

Interview with Le Blevec, Actual Leader

Current conditions.

These are the worst conditions since the start and not far from the worst I have encountered in multihulls. With each wave one has the impression that the boat will be demolished, it is really not funny, I have no pleasure to sail in these conditions, it is really hyper hard. We have 30 knots of wind which is not a problem, what is a problem is that we have the waves coming at us in front, not very big, but it is a sea completely disordered. The boat jumps on all the waves, we get shaken, it's hell, we have to be on watch all the time, it's really super complicated and we mistreat the boat, it's very unpleasant. Our machines are sensitive boats that still have limits and now we playing a little with the limits of the boat, we have large impacts peaks, we do not know if we are within the acceptable limits or not. We can not go faster but not because of the boat, it's the sea state. I refuse to go faster in this sea and already I have the impression that we are doing too much, I am forced to force myself to keep pace in this disorganized sea state. We just went from three to two reefs to accelerate a little, we have no head sail, if we did the boat would accelerate too much, we are going at 18-20 knots, it is important to go fast to stay with this weather system but it's super hard.

The passage to Rio

It was very nice because it's really nice to see the land after ten days but the conditions were not idyllic, we did not see many people on Ipanema beach but it was a very nice passage, a first step in Brest Atlantiques, and that's really good. "

The race relaunched

It's pretty incredible, we were not the fastest, we knew that in advance, but the with the differences and issues of each other and we all ended up gathered in Rio, we will continue to navigate with this philosophy and we will see what it will turn out like when we arrival.

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11 minutes ago, schakel488 said:

Would like to see on board footage,
High seas and 23 knots, using the seat belt, unable to eat.
But they are being paid to do this...

On board Sodebo. Shaking at 40 knots

 

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9 minutes ago, jb5 said:

On board Sodebo. Shaking at 40 knots

 

The howling of the wind is scary and the screeching.
If you hit something in the water, well you can imagine ripped-of ama's or broken daggerboards.
It is a calculated risk they take.

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20 hours ago, Wess said:

Well as a multihull owner and fan I gotta say... how sad... that the designs and builds are this fragile. 

I'm much more impressed by someone having the sense to turn around than I am by someone with big brass balls. Nothing sad about it.

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10 minutes ago, Russell Brown said:

I'm much more impressed by someone having the sense to turn around than I am by someone with big brass balls. Nothing sad about it.

It's racing, it was always like that.
But I am more a cruising man as well.
My budget is somewhat different from these guys.

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