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1 hour ago, bmiller said:

My son, grandson and 3 others came up this last weekend. They went 5/5 on bambis.

I didn't draw so nothing for me this year. 

Our weather has been poor so far this season but a friend took a nice size (for the right coast) doe our of my yard a couple of weeks ago. I’ve been in Florida this week but he was supposed to hunt Saturday to try to thin my resident herd a bit this season. 

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Oh...here is how it turned out.....(ps, I built the deck on the porch as well)  

20x20 with a walkout. 

Posted Images

And then the 35’ storage trailer for the teak, excess tools, equipment and motors.

But nice, flawless gelcoat jobs and marine restorations come out regardless of the shop conditions when push comes to shove. 

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6 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

Shop can be messy or organized depending on the project and the amount of motor work and carpentry going on as well as the time of year with bad weather

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Cante gette the ensine in theire?                                   :)

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21 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

Cante gette the ensine in theire?                                   :)

I did!  I just don’t think I took a pic of it and Twinbro drunk swam off an Etchells  this summer with his phone full of my work which he never backed up :/ Actually did a re-deck and full restoration including beautiful teak bulkheads in addition to the red one. Both turned out 11 on the scale!

 I’ll dig up the pics and post 

plus the scrapping of the deck donor boat. The benches for that boat Chaos were recycled into the benches for the Sanderling which also came out 11!!

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2 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

And then the 35’ storage trailer for the teak, excess tools, equipment and motors.

But nice, flawless gelcoat jobs and marine restorations come out regardless of the shop conditions when push comes to shove. 

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First of all, you suck.  You have a fucking boat in your workshop.  I automatically hate you.  Did I tell you you suck?  And if you think I'm jealous... No way!  But we can get along if you just tell me where you live so I can be part of building a boat.  Please?

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7 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

I used a radial arm saw a lot back in the day, although I find the chop saw a little handier and easier to move around.  When I used to do carpentry work years ago, I had a Dodge cargo van and a sliding table in the back that I had a Craftsman radial arm saw mounted on, with legs that unfolded to support the front of it when I slid it out to work.  It worked well.  They certainly made things to last in the 'old' days.  I remember my father had an old Craftsman table saw.  It worked just fine for maybe 45 or more years.  The table was cast iron, not aluminum.

I acquired a cast iron dewalt miter saw a few years ago. Put a decent $40 blade in it. Heavy as hell. Built a framing stand, did duaghters house rehab, my basement bar and recroom then set it at the roadside. Disappeared in 17 minutes.

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52 minutes ago, Jules said:

First of all, you suck.  You have a fucking boat in your workshop.  I automatically hate you.  Did I tell you you suck?  And if you think I'm jealous... No way!  But we can get along if you just tell me where you live so I can be part of building a boat.  Please?

I live in the state of bliss and constant excitement. The only problem with moving a great project out is making the next project WAY better! This month I’m shellacking a period Knotty Pine bungalow restoration so I’m not technically doing bright work. It doesn’t pay as much for this project, but I appreciate the diversion before the winter schedule. 

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4 hours ago, luminary said:

winner. Only one so far where I can see a boat

Wait, mine had one test boat on the side that I'm using for the folding Opti dinghy project, the orange one. I built and shipped some fifty folding boats out of my workshop this year ...

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Lordy, I'm glad those finally shipped.

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47 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

I live in the state of bliss and constant excitement. The only problem with moving a great project out is making the next project WAY better! This month I’m shellacking a period Knotty Pine bungalow restoration so I’m not technically doing bright work. It doesn’t pay as much for this project, but I appreciate the diversion before the winter schedule. 

So you admit you suck.  OK.  We're getting somewhere.  

But you didn't tell me where you live.  No big deal.  I just want to check on if your shop has a boat.  Not that I don't trust you, I just need to see that boat.  It's a governmental thing.

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16 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

Shop can be messy or organized depending on the project and the amount of motor work and carpentry going on as well as the time of year with bad weather

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Phew - someone has a NORMAL looking shop!   Mine's a bit worse at the moment, w/stuff from several adult kids cluttering up the works, and stuff/tools for 3 "in progress" projects spread about - but, real close to this.  Thanks S4B! 

 

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9 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

We all do that at home.

Or in the boatyard boneyard.

Speaking of which, does anyone here have a boneyard? (I don't, though I aspire to have one someday if I get grandchildren. Nothing like chasing grandchildren out of the boneyard.)

Austin, BMiller, you'ns have a boneyard?

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13 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Speaking of which, does anyone here have a boneyard? (I don't, though I aspire to have one someday if I get grandchildren. Nothing like chasing grandchildren out of the boneyard.)

Austin, BMiller, you'ns have a boneyard?

I live within the town limits. Having a big pile of rotting animal parts would be bad form. We just processed 5 deer in my shop, the resulting pile got fed to the local scavengers.

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On 10/21/2019 at 5:31 PM, mikewof said:

That carpeting has saved my ass at least once with some ungrounded high voltage DC test equipment.

I have a grounded static pad to stand when I have to work with low-voltage DC components.

Well, if we're looking at electronic benches. . .

radio_bench_3.jpg

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17 minutes ago, bmiller said:

I live within the town limits. Having a big pile of rotting animal parts would be bad form. We just processed 5 deer in my shop, the resulting pile got fed to the local scavengers.

I thought he meant cars......    On my ridge?  Critter bones don't usually last past the winter, lots of other little critters like to gnaw on 'em.   

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5 minutes ago, lostonsat said:

I like the Dead Bug Tube circuit on the bench. QRP TX or Guitar effect  ?

Actually, that was an attempt to see if a double-balanced mixer could be build with two double diodes, and what kind of performance it might have.

Answers?  A) Yes, it can. 2) it's sucky compared to its solid-state counterpart.

The green box to the right of that is an NN1G 40-40 txcvr, with CWF-2 filter added in.  The beige box to the right of that is an NN1G 160-40 txcvr with some additional goodies inside.

 

Also, apologies for no grease or sawdust -- that's out in the garage. . .

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

Speaking of which, does anyone here have a boneyard? (I don't, though I aspire to have one someday if I get grandchildren. Nothing like chasing grandchildren out of the boneyard.)

Austin, BMiller, you'ns have a boneyard?

I do. I’m just kind of shy about showing it off. It’s the field of boats I was working on before the superstorm Sandy came through and wrecked my house and launched 5 years of non stop repair work in addition to the restorations I had going on at the time. Wooden boats definitely suffer from neglect. Too much work for lazy people leads to a natural death of boats. I’m just too busy to save them all.

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

Speaking of which, does anyone here have a boneyard? (I don't, though I aspire to have one someday if I get grandchildren. Nothing like chasing grandchildren out of the boneyard.)

Austin, BMiller, you'ns have a boneyard?

Hell no. If an animal dies (very rare) and we don't know why, it goes in for an autopsy. If we do know why, the meat wagon is called. I don't want contamination.

It's usually calves with mastitis or a stillborn. About 1 in 1,300. Stillborn is bad news for Mom because she goes straight to the slaughterhouse.

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18 hours ago, dreadom said:

No, I coordinate and deliver healthcare simulation training. Sometimes I do a bit of Moulage to heighten the realism. 

you could refocus your efforts . Could probably sell a lot over in pa 

 

 

 

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On0/Dogballs/2019 at 5:28 PM, luminary said:

winner. Only one so far where I can see a boat

Oh, is this a boat shop thread? Hell, the year I retired my garage became a boat shop for about 9 months...

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Of course, the bow roof shed in the background  became a boat shop every spring, then something else during the summer months, then back to boat shop come autumn..

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Electronics don't count - no grease and no sawdust.

What an electronics bench lacks in engine grease and sawdust, it makes up for with old PCBs, Polonium alpha emitters, mercury switches, lead solder and toxic electrolytes.

I might eat a sandwich after working on an engine or some wood, but no fucking way to I go near my mouth after working on electronic gear until I scrub down.

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8 hours ago, bplipschitz said:

Well, if we're looking at electronic benches. . .

radio_bench_3.jpg

Geez, that's the soldering iron, holder and wet sponge I trained on in Navy BE&E school in 1971. Surely there's something better out there by now!

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I restored Ensign #49 in 2014

The deck was so shot from old repairs that were hidden under paint that I had to get a donor boat for the deck since a new one from Ensign Spars, the manufacture, is around $5,000 + install.

I removed the decks from both boats, threw the old 49’er deck and the 1073 hull in the pile and prepped the old 1073 deck for transplant.


Pics below are donor Ensign 1073 Chaos on the way out and on the pile after the lead and anything else useable was removed

the 1,200 lb lead keel at 45 cents/lb

daughter inspecting resoration to Ensign 49’er’s cuddy

1073 deck painted and ready to install on 49’er’s restored hull.

 

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6 hours ago, Point Break said:

Did you go to BE&E in San Diego?

No, Great Lakes.

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25 minutes ago, Poodle56 said:

A good mates workshop where I spend a bit of time. 

Doing Gods work  :-)

IMG_0789.JPG

Does he go by the nick name Heisenberg, by any chance?

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14 hours ago, Willin' said:

Geez, that's the soldering iron, holder and wet sponge I trained on in Navy BE&E school in 1971. Surely there's something better out there by now!

Not if you're doing hand-built bread-boarded electronic circuits.  25W iron with a grounded tip.  I wish Ungar soldering irons were still made, I might need a new tip in 10 more years (seems like they last forever).

If you're doing surface-mount stuff, you want a lower power iron with a really fine tip, but it's doing to look pretty much the same. . .

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1 hour ago, Point Break said:

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :blink:

Funnily enough, I signed up on the last day of December because I was told my number would come up on Jan. 1. The recruiter had signed me up under the Cache program, which delayed my report date 6 months until June, which was fine with me because I figured I'd be going to boot camp at Great Lakes as I lived in New Jersey at the time. There could be worse things than summer in Chicago.

Comes the morning I report, get sworn in and handed my ticket to ... wait for it... the brand new RTC in Orlando, FLA. To plagiarize David Bromberg, 'It was a stinkin' summer trip through southern hell!'

 

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3 hours ago, bplipschitz said:

Not if you're doing hand-built bread-boarded electronic circuits.  25W iron with a grounded tip.  I wish Ungar soldering irons were still made, I might need a new tip in 10 more years (seems like they last forever).

If you're doing surface-mount stuff, you want a lower power iron with a really fine tip, but it's doing to look pretty much the same. . .

Have you ever seen the way they solder surface components in a production setting? It's a real trip ... the components are inserted into the board with their leads already cut, then the whole board is gently lowered above a pool of molten solder, where a continuity sensor in the solder allows the bottom of the component-filled board to just kiss the surface, filling all the solder connections in. Then the board is lifted out vertically and within a couple seconds all the connections are dry. A dry wash then removes any stray hairs of solder that might bridge the current.

What that system does in five seconds would have taken me all day with one of the old Heathkit or Tandy projects and a soldering iron.

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1 minute ago, mikewof said:

Have you ever seen the way they solder surface components in a production setting? It's a real trip ... the components are inserted into the board with their leads already cut, then the whole board is gently lowered above a pool of molten solder, where a continuity sensor in the solder allows the bottom of the component-filled board to just kiss the surface, filling all the solder connections in. Then the board is lifted out vertically and within a couple seconds all the connections are dry. A dry wash then removes any stray hairs of solder that might bridge the current.

What that system does in five seconds would have taken me all day with one of the old Heathkit or Tandy projects and a soldering iron.

Sorry - are you saying that it's an electrical attraction that causes the solder to only go where it's supposed to go, or a wicking action by virtue of the exposed leads on the underside of the board just kissing the surface of the molten solder? 

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8 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Sorry - are you saying that it's an electrical attraction that causes the solder to only go where it's supposed to go, or a wicking action by virtue of the exposed leads on the underside of the board just kissing the surface of the molten solder? 

Same question........

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17 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Sorry - are you saying that it's an electrical attraction that causes the solder to only go where it's supposed to go, or a wicking action by virtue of the exposed leads on the underside of the board just kissing the surface of the molten solder? 

I think it's just surface tension, i.e. the wicking action you describe. The continuity sensor is to stop the "dunk" before too much of the board is immersed in the solder, since the depth of the molten pool constantly charges with room temperature and depletion of the solder.

The leads are already cut before the board goes in. The surface tension that draws in the solder isn't due to the leads (which have a negative surface energy, since they are mostly solid, they don't wick the solder, you need holes or a mesh of some kind to wick) but the holes in the board where the little stubs of the leads poke through.

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15 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Have you ever seen the way they solder surface components in a production setting? It's a real trip ... the components are inserted into the board with their leads already cut, then the whole board is gently lowered above a pool of molten solder..

Ya mean wave soldering? That is old school. Went out of style in the last century. Just after soldering up octal tube sockets. Now it is all solder paste. That is how they solder the connections under IC's with hundreds of contacts without having to drill those ancient-tech thru-holes.

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1 minute ago, El Boracho said:

Ya mean wave soldering? That is old school. Went out of style in the last century. Just after soldering up octal tube sockets. Now it is all solder paste. That is how they solder the connections under IC's with hundreds of contacts without having to drill those ancient-tech thru-holes.

I haven't seen it, but circuit boards still have through holes don't they? How else does the circuit race connect to the components? I'm sure there are still holes, right?

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3 minutes ago, mikewof said:

I haven't seen it, but circuit boards still have through holes don't they? How else does the circuit race connect to the components? I'm sure there are still holes, right?

In some instances, yes.  For a lot of surface mount (SMT) stuff, no.

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7 minutes ago, mikewof said:

I haven't seen it, but circuit boards still have through holes don't they? How else does the circuit race connect to the components? I'm sure there are still holes, right?

Almost no thru holes. Just pulled out the last PCB I did before I retired about 2000. a thousand via's to connect the dozen layers. The only thru holes are the pins of the USB connector and a couple of old-school ribbon headers for diagnostic ribbons. The thru-hole were soldered reflow...paste....pretty sure. The CPU alone has about 600 contacts...all hidden underneath.

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11 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

Almost no thru holes. Just pulled out the last PCB I did before I retired about 2000. a thousand via's to connect the dozen layers. The only thru holes are the pins of the USB connector and a couple of old-school ribbon headers for diagnostic ribbons. The thru-hole were soldered reflow...paste....pretty sure. The CPU alone has about 600 contacts...all hidden underneath.

Yeah, the CPU will socket in somehow, but there has to be an insulting layer and a conduction layer. The holes must be in the sub-assembly. There has to be some kind of hole somewhere through the insulting layer. I guess I should rip apart a cell phone and takes me a look, get up to date on these things.

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11 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

Almost no thru holes. Just pulled out the last PCB I did before I retired about 2000. a thousand via's to connect the dozen layers. The only thru holes are the pins of the USB connector and a couple of old-school ribbon hearers for diagnostic ribbons. The thru-hole were soldered reflow...paste....pretty sure. The CPU alone has about 600 contacts...all hidden underneath.

So - how is that process controlled?   I'm completely ignorant of that, but, I'd like to understand. 

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There is also a difference in surface energy between the metallic trace and the exposed epoxy of the circuit board material.  The solder will be attracted to the trace and stay away from the circuit board material.

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1 hour ago, mikewof said:

Yeah, the CPU will socket in somehow, but there has to be an insulting layer and a conduction layer. The holes must be in the sub-assembly. There has to be some kind of hole somewhere through the insulting layer. I guess I should rip apart a cell phone and takes me a look, get up to date on these things.

All the little gold holes you see are vias.  None of the components are thru-holes, all SMT.

circuita.jpg

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A silkscreen mask is used to apply a sticky paste of powered solder and flux to plain undrilled pads on either side of the board. A robot sticks down each component to the paste. Resistors, inductors, capacitors, everything comes as surface mount now. The 600 contact chip same way...no leads or legs. Each contact is just a micro bump of solder on the bottom side. No socket needed. Then the board is put in an oven. The solder reflows, the flux evaporates. Presto...done. Very reliable. Very low failure rate. Can be done manually as well.

The board itself is many plys of boards and copper traces. Maybe a dozen. A via is a plated hole that conducts between layers. See bplip’s pic above...

More remarkable is that usually the entire functionality is in CPUs and huge programmable gate arrays. It’s all software. No stringing TTL gates together, ever, all functionality is boolean expressions compiled into hardware. The Rs and Cs are just random pullups and bypass components.

I would design entire boards. They would come back from the fab shop and I wouldn’t immediately know what I was looking at...never having actually seen the components or layout except as esoteric software expressions and network lists. Then I plug it into the dev system and never look at it again...except maybe to find a test point...or to see from where all the smoke leaked out.

The first thing I built was a vacuum tube Heathkit oscilloscope...some changes during my career...

 

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6 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

the "via" is a hole drilled mechanically or by laser between different layers of a stacked PCB thousands of them per board. then you add something to connect the layers. and that description is 15 years out of date. 
 

depending on the components, use a solder preform - discs, rings, sheets 

That makes sense, little holes on the subassemblies, then stacked together. So it's kind of a 3D circuit board? But still, lots of holes, it has to come back to basic electronics eventually right?

I imagine that these new boards are essentially impossible to repair.

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2 hours ago, El Boracho said:

A silkscreen mask is used to apply a sticky paste of powered solder and flux to plain undrilled pads on either side of the board. A robot sticks down each component to the paste. Resistors, inductors, capacitors, everything comes as surface mount now. The 600 contact chip same way...no leads or legs. Each contact is just a micro bump of solder on the bottom side. No socket needed. Then the board is put in an oven. The solder reflows, the flux evaporates. Presto...done. Very reliable. Very low failure rate. Can be done manually as well.

The board itself is many plys of boards and copper traces. Maybe a dozen. A via is a plated hole that conducts between layers. See bplip’s pic above...

More remarkable is that usually the entire functionality is in CPUs and huge programmable gate arrays. It’s all software. No stringing TTL gates together, ever, all functionality is boolean expressions compiled into hardware. The Rs and Cs are just random pullups and bypass components.

I would design entire boards. They would come back from the fab shop and I wouldn’t immediately know what I was looking at...never having actually seen the components or layout except as esoteric software expressions and network lists. Then I plug it into the dev system and never look at it again...except maybe to find a test point...or to see from where all the smoke leaked out.

The first thing I built was a vacuum tube Heathkit oscilloscope...some changes during my career...

 

If I built a little machine in LabView with basic components, is there anyone who can just turn that into an actual circuit?

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

If I built a little machine in LabView with basic components, is there anyone who can just turn that into an actual circuit?

Nobody would do that. There is a plethora of little experimenter boards ready to go. Unless it is some special RF circuit... Do it digital or go home :-)

But yeah, if you have the net list from the CAD program and he parts detail (a lot of detail work) then any PC shop...probably in India...will do it.

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I don't get the reverence for messy shops. I go out of my way to keep things clean and organized. It doesn't always work out that way but it makes me more efficient and safe.

I know a guy here in town who does a ton of high end metal work. He is very much in demand for the quality of his product. His shop is awesome, clean, organized, well lit and well stocked. The area around the cold saw gets mopped every day, assuming it was used.

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16 hours ago, mikewof said:

If I built a little machine in LabView with basic components, is there anyone who can just turn that into an actual circuit?

Absolutely.  Look at the picture of my bench.  I'm stringing together components in mid-air from either schematics or something in my mind.  At RF that all works very well.  It needs only slightly more attention for AF, more for digital, etc.

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My workshop, only minutes ago.  I had to learn the high step to get around
Vanity_02.jpg.6cf13f9af2c9af84e3b34cb67f9c7e26.jpg

And the extended workshop
Vanity_03.jpg.bdb2cf880c5ad20623736db87090cb2c.jpg

If it wasn't so damn humid outside and all that boat shit wasn't occupying it, the lanai is usually the extension.  Unless the heat and humidity relent, I have no idea where I can spray that cabinet.

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23 minutes ago, bmiller said:

I don't get the reverence for messy shops. I go out of my way to keep things clean and organized. It doesn't always work out that way but it makes me more efficient and safe.

I know a guy here in town who does a ton of high end metal work. He is very much in demand for the quality of his product. His shop is awesome, clean, organized, well lit and well stocked. The area around the cold saw gets mopped every day, assuming it was used.

I don't have a reverence for it, per se, @bmiller... it just ends up being how my synapses fire when I'm involved in really certain projects- and what ends up happening to the top of my personal box(es). We DO take overall shop cleanliness seriously- which is why I judiciously took that photo to really only show my personal skunk works area. It sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the area(s) around the yard. It is time for a cleanup there, though!

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1 hour ago, bmiller said:

I don't get the reverence for messy shops. I go out of my way to keep things clean and organized. It doesn't always work out that way but it makes me more efficient and safe.

I know a guy here in town who does a ton of high end metal work. He is very much in demand for the quality of his product. His shop is awesome, clean, organized, well lit and well stocked. The area around the cold saw gets mopped every day, assuming it was used.

Definitely, production and manufacturing shops need to stay clean and organized. But clean and organized sometimes doesn't play nice with what needs to happen in the grey matter before the widgets go into production and manufacturing.

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

Definitely, production and manufacturing shops need to stay clean and organized. But clean and organized sometimes doesn't play nice with what needs to happen in the grey matter before the widgets go into production and manufacturing.

I've tried.  I've really tried.  But either the shop is too small or my projects are too big.  I'll spend an hour cleaning it up and within 10 minutes I'm looking for a clean space. 

This winter I'm going to empty the garage (big tools are there) and see if I can find some way to make that work.  Then I'll tackle the inside shop.  Not holding my breath nor do I have much hope it will last.

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3 hours ago, bmiller said:

I don't get the reverence for messy shops. I go out of my way to keep things clean and organized. It doesn't always work out that way but it makes me more efficient and safe.

I know a guy here in town who does a ton of high end metal work. He is very much in demand for the quality of his product. His shop is awesome, clean, organized, well lit and well stocked. The area around the cold saw gets mopped every day, assuming it was used.

It's not serious - just a bit of fun in an attempt to justify the usual state of affairs.

No-one really prefers working in a mess, it just sort of happens.

A lot.

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19 minutes ago, Jules said:

How heavy will the occupants be? :wacko:

It isn't the occupants, it's the chair, heavy as hell. All the "engineering" is about holding it up and not move when people use it.

100_7184-XL.jpg

 

Yes I tend to over engineer things.

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