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Go simple, go small, go now - put it here


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Is there a “go simple, go small, go now” thread?  There is now.  Put it here - within reason!  No stories about “crazy” people like Alberto Torroba (https://www.atomvoyages.com/articles/sailor-interviews/97-albertotorroba-1.html ) or the mighty Aleksander Doba (who’s kayaked the Atlantic several times, into his 70s).  And *definitely* no S/V Delos-type bullshit.  Stuff to inspire or help anyone on a small budget.  (I remember being 25 and thinking, how can I ever afford...)

“Regular folks on regular small boats”.  Let’s say, 30’ and under.  Articles or vids on folks and how they’re doing it cheaply and safely on plain vanilla, small boats with small (or micro, as below) budgets.

Old 25’ Cape Dory purchased for $2500 and fitted out for (engineless) ocean cruising:

Site about their refit:  https://www.omick.net/adventure/sailing/sailing_offshore/sailing_offshore.html

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Frank Dye and Bill Brockbank  (later Frank and His wife Margaret are the obvious answers)

Uk to Iceland in a wayfarer dinghy.. 

Up the east Coat of the USA..

https://web.archive.org/web/20121105093658/http://www.glit.info/uswayfarer/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20&Itemid=39

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Dye

I met  Frank at one of his lectures they were very good, Sadly he's no longer with us..

 

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post-30927-0-38693000-1442500285_thumb.jpgpost-30927-0-34372500-1442585897_thumb.jpg

 

I dunno if this is within the ideas of the OP but this is the "Go Small, Go Simple, Go Now" cruising vessel that my wife and I covered most of the US East Coast for about 15 years. With two different dogs.

Didn't need a dinghy.

Both of us working full time, fairly professional careers, one month vacation and lots of weekend (many 3-day weekends, with blessing) trips. Boat trailered easily behind mid-size vehicle, we could be 300 miles from home within 8 hours of leaving our driveway.

One of the above photos is Chesapeake Bay, the other is (of course) NC's Cape Lookout (well, Shackleford Banks looking across the Bight at Lookout). We cruised from the Florida panhandle to Boston Harbor, and a lot of inland lakes too.

The boat was not glamorous or celebrated, it was a pudgy little dumptruck of a boat. But it sailed fairly well, and was comfy within Spartan limits, and had quite a practical rig & trailer.

FB- Doug

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

post-30927-0-38693000-1442500285_thumb.jpgpost-30927-0-34372500-1442585897_thumb.jpg

 

I dunno if this is within the ideas of the OP but this is the "Go Small, Go Simple, Go Now" cruising vessel that my wife and I covered most of the US East Coast for about 15 years. With two different dogs.

Didn't need a dinghy.

Both of us working full time, fairly professional careers, one month vacation and lots of weekend (many 3-day weekends, with blessing) trips. Boat trailered easily behind mid-size vehicle, we could be 300 miles from home within 8 hours of leaving our driveway.

One of the above photos is Chesapeake Bay, the other is (of course) NC's Cape Lookout (well, Shackleford Banks looking across the Bight at Lookout). We cruised from the Florida panhandle to Boston Harbor, and a lot of inland lakes too.

The boat was not glamorous or celebrated, it was a pudgy little dumptruck of a boat. But it sailed fairly well, and was comfy within Spartan limits, and had quite a practical rig & trailer.

FB- Doug

Practical - respect! 

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I dunno if this is within the ideas of the OP but this is the "Go Small, Go Simple, Go Now" cruising vessel that my wife and I covered most of the US East Coast for about 15 years. With two different dogs.

FB- Doug

Very cool!  Yes, this is what I had in mind - hearing about extended cruises like this (and especially farther offshore ones, as in the vid/link I posted).  I remember reading Cruising World magazine back when it had articles about small boats, how to do a noon latitude shot, practical DIY stuff, etc.  When, in my view, it was an interesting mag and, importantly, inspiring/full of ideas, not just big, new boats and money.  That stuff is boring and is everywhere.

I enjoy hearing about people with creative approaches, not tons of cash, doing big things.  (The folks in the vid I posted bought their boat for $2500 and completely outfitted it for under $10K, then crossed to Polynesia.)  Like this family on an old Pearson 28 cruising to Guatemala. (Bottom of page: https://www.atomvoyages.com/blog/396-2018-blog.html )

06261C1E-E0FA-4609-96D8-C6F4300C08BF.jpeg

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1 minute ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Very cool!  Yes, this is what I had in mind - hearing about extended cruises like this (and especially farther offshore ones, as in the vid/link I posted).  I remember reading Cruising World magazine back when it had articles about small boats, how to do a noon latitude shot, practical DIY stuff, etc.  When, in my view, it was an interesting mag and, importantly, inspiring/full of ideas, not just big, new boats and money.  That stuff is boring and is everywhere.

I enjoy hearing about people with creative approaches, not tons of cash, doing big things.  Like this family on an old Pearson 28. (Bottom of page: https://www.atomvoyages.com/blog/396-2018-blog.html )

06261C1E-E0FA-4609-96D8-C6F4300C08BF.jpeg

Thanks! We contemplated going over to the Bahamas, and it could certainly have been done with care & good planning. In fact, I'd argue that a little boat like that one (a water-ballasted Hunter 19, wunna dese (linky)). I think that for short hops it could actually be safer than a traditional keelboat, as it is a well-corked little bottle with full flotation and no heavy ballast keel to drag her under. It'd be damn uncomfortable trying to right it like a 420, though!

We did sail it out of sight of land a dozen or so times, but only for a day or less; no passagemaking; and spent up to eight days aboard but only a few of those times weren't with stops in civilization for coffee, fresh milk, pizza night out, etc etc. We visited more historic little waterfront towns than I can recall.

To some extent, we just bought it instead of buying old, cheap, used, and fixing it up. Part of that is that 1- we were both working full time and my main sailing interest was campaigning a series of racing boats including a T-10 and a Lightning (not both at the same time). 2- a boat such as this simply did not exist prior to about the mid 1980s. IIRC the boat and trailer cost around $9k in 1993 dollars, and I invested in upgrading much of the running rigging, installed -much- better trailer brakes (and better ones have since been invented), as well as nice frills like building in a couple of little cabinets.

Nowadays there are lots of such boats scattered around on the used market, but most of the time the buyers don't know and the sellers either don't know or won't acknowledge that the trailer and the sails are major major contributors to the value

FB- Doug

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Perhaps slightly off-topic, in a Boston Whaler Squall like this one, I had a childhood's worth of sailing, rowing, and even motoring adventures (putt-putting with an Evinrude 1.5). It served as transportation to friends' houses and as a way to learn a thousand lessons firsthand. Finding out the hard way about shoals, currents, sheared pins, lost oarlocks, how to kedge when your old sail tears, and the like is best done in a small boat. 

The squall was my fantasy boat - a vessel headed for distant lands, a rowing shell in the Olympics, a pirate ship. And occasionally it functioned a dinghy for our schooner on trips up the Chesapeake.

Image result for boston whaler squall sail

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Maybe not small enough to fit but these guys were pretty inspirational to us.  Good friends and probably the most understated cruisers out there. Bruce and Tiff on Vixen, Atkins cutter. I think Bruce got the Blue water cruising award a couple years ago. Pretty awesome family.

Vixensvoyage.com

 

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I guess my old Sharks would qualify. 24' long and 6'10" beam, it's somewhat like living in a sewer pipe. However, I spent several weeks aboard while solo, and many weeks aboard with one other person while exploring the BC coast. Ridiculously seaworthy boats for their size.

Quote

The Shark is seen sailing happily in all major cruising waters, but some owners have taken them much farther afield. In 1972, Clive O'Connor, with his wife, two year-old and guitar sailed their boat from Ontario to Melbourne, Australia. They arrived in good form, still speaking to each other and their boat, at last report, was still being used for research on Australia's Great Barrier reef.

Randall Peart sailed his Shark from Ohio to Lake Erie and then the Bahamas, then back to Miami. From Miami, he sailed to his native England where he spent the winter before returning to North America by way of the Canaries. On his return, he reported no structural damage and no bulkheads adrift, but he did install a new set of gudgeons to replace the worn ones.

https://www.boats.com/reviews/a-boat-for-when-the-wind-blows/

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Years ago I had a Lysander 17ft plywood  mini yacht, bilge keel,  

I was in the RAF at the time and we worked strange 12hour shifts which gave us 10 days off solid in every 32 days.  Those days were, weather permitting, spent exploring the outer hebridies . Though when it went wrong spending a couple of days rocking and rolling at anchor in a force 8-9-10 in a small loch was not fun.. 

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Did some beach cat camping as a teenager, on a Hobie 16, all our stuff in dry bags.  Other cats would be way better for this, and could be cruised for weeks on end -- so many places in Australia, southeast US, Caribbean, maybe the Med, etc.  With less ambitious hops at a safe/sane pace, it doesn't have to be a Worrell experience.

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42 minutes ago, blurocketsmate said:

it doesn't have to be a Worrell experience.

Although I did grow up sailing a Hobie 16 in Virginia Beach, my Worrell Brothers experience was limited to their bar hour of 10-cent drinks on Sunday afternoons in about 1978.

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Lived on my Herreshoff Rocinante for 4 years and cruised the PNW extensively.  Had a 6hp Evinrude that fit on a bracket that attached to the stern chalks, most of the time it was on deck and I sailed in and out of harbors.  Was a magical boat, mizzen and jib in a blow, would self steer upwind all day.  Had a beam of 6'4" and only seating head room down below.  L. Francis said there are only two things you want to do down below, eat and sleep, and he didn't know anyone who liked doing either standing up.

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"Classic Sparkman Stephens design. Hull number 107. She was designed in the 60's to be an mini-ocean racer. This Dolphin is arguably the most famous of its class. It has sailed to Hawaii, The Marquesas, Tahiti and back to the west coast by a former owner."

I hope to get mine in the water this year.

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6 hours ago, Roam said:

How to Sail Oceans youtube channel. Guy did a circumnavigation on a small engineless boat and now regularly sails between the Caribbean and Chesapeak.

 

Nice!  Very practical and down-to-earth.

He says one year of cruising 2018-2019 (I’m not sure exactly where, he may say later in the vid) costs him $16,853.  (Revealed in first 30 secs of the vid! Punchline first! :-) ) He details his expenses later.

 

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3 hours ago, zenmasterfred said:

Lived on my Herreshoff Rocinante for 4 years and cruised the PNW extensively.  Had a 6hp Evinrude that fit on a bracket that attached to the stern chalks, most of the time it was on deck and I sailed in and out of harbors.  Was a magical boat, mizzen and jib in a blow, would self steer upwind all day.  Had a beam of 6'4" and only seating head room down below.  L. Francis said there are only two things you want to do down below, eat and sleep, and he didn't know anyone who liked doing either standing up.

I can think of a third thing... but it’s good in all sorts of positions.

(Donald Hamilton had some similar quip in one of his Matt Helm novels, but about campers.  Can’t recall exactly which one atm)

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Steve gave a presentation to our Multihull Club in Seattle of an amazing adventure on a 21 foot boat he made with his wife Ginny.  Sailing & rowing from Florida to Buenos Aires thru the heart of Amazonia and back!  Ginny gave birth to their son somewhere in Brazil.  He sailed back alone, out the Amazon and up the cost to the Caribbean.  For much of the voyage there were no charts of Amazonia.  Steve used Google Earth, tech wizardy and what ever he could glean from locals for which rivers or channels to work their way thru the heart of S. America.  We were riveted for 3 hours.  No one had done it before, nor since AFAIK.  

 

Screen Shot 2019-10-23 at 11.54.59 PM.png

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First cruising boat, circa 1973. 30' Piver Trimaran, glass over ply, with an 18 hp Evinrude on the stern, no fridge, two burner gas stove, no pressure water, RayJeff RDF, no radio, crappy inflatable dinghy w/o motor. My cousin and I sailed it all over the northern and central Bahamas, speared and ate LOTS of grouper, snapper, hog fish, lobster and rice, drank copious amounts of rum and ambient temp canned fruit juice. The boat was minimalist to say the least, but roomy, and only drew 2 1/2' which made it easy to poke around, but the amount of leeway we made going to weather was ridiculous. We often had to get up in the middle of the night and move further from shore, because clouds of mosquitos and sand flies had found us when the wind died. Wanted something more capable for offshore work, so cleaned her up and sold her for a couple bucks more than I'd paid for her. 

Hunza.jpg

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15 hours ago, Roam said:

How to Sail Oceans youtube channel. Guy did a circumnavigation on a small engineless boat and now regularly sails between the Caribbean and Chesapeak.

 

 

I recently stumbled upon this channel. He has a pretty small following due to his lack of drama and tits. The dude is very skilled. He never calls for a tow. He sails, he sculls or in extreme times, will do a hip-tow with his own dinghy.

I actually saw him sailing north off of Annapolis and spoke to him on the radio this summer.

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8 hours ago, Boink said:

I remember this You Tube clip from some posting on Anarchy, but its well worth a re-visit and fits in nicely to the theme of this thread.

Enjoy.....

 

One of my favorites.  Dad locks kids in shed for 2-3 weeks while he and wife go sailing.  Their kids are absolutely adorable and I am not enamored with small children. His wife seems tough as nails.  I guess you have to be, to live in the Shetlands.

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3 hours ago, Ajax said:

One of my favorites.  Dad locks kids in shed for 2-3 weeks while he and wife go sailing.  Their kids are absolutely adorable and I am not enamored with small children. His wife seems tough as nails.  I guess you have to be, to live in the Shetlands.

Oh great.  Thanks a lot.  Now that I’ve finally made a conscious choice, and also followed through on it (day 5 or so today) to get off Facebook for good —made easier hearing an interview with the author of the new anti-FB book, “Zucked” yesterday, and after iPhone did an automatic update for the phone the other night last week, with the result that the stored FB login credentials in the phone weren’t saved —so getting into FB now requires me to enter log in/password, and I simply cannot be bothered to retrieve the info—it seemed like perfect time to try to break the habit/addiction, so artfully created by Zuckerberg et al.— I now have more YouTube shit competing for my very limited free time! :-). Goddamn “attention economy”!!

Go single, go small, go now!  (Is it even possible now to go cruising without a blog, Patreon account and FB page?! Kidding.)

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3 hours ago, Ajax said:

One of my favorites.  Dad locks kids in shed for 2-3 weeks while he and wife go sailing.  Their kids are absolutely adorable and I am not enamored with small children. His wife seems tough as nails.  I guess you have to be, to live in the Shetlands.

"we're having a paaarty"

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4 hours ago, dylan winter said:

Indeed, that is certainly simple, small and now. A bit more “extreme” than I had in mind for this thread (i.e., an 18’ 4” boat) —not knowing much about him (I had heard of him before), I always assumed he made his voyage as a “smallest boat ever” type of crazy stunt.  Reading a bit about him, it turns out not at all the case. He simply went offshore cruising the only way he could afford/knew how —and successfully so.

From his obituary I just found.  Fitting tribute to a brave sailor:

Said his sister: “He joined the Marines when he was 18, not for a great length of time and then he worked as a milkman and a bus conductor. But in the back of his mind he wanted to give up everything and go off. He actually followed his dream.  He had no real yachting experience. He was extremely modest and would sit back and listen to the tales of rich Californians and not say a word.”


"He was not materialistic at all." 
Shane finally settled on a "paradise island" near Golfito in Costa Rica, where he lived alone, growing his own food and taking American tourists on game fishing expeditions. 

He returned to Cambridge in December with nothing but a rollbag. 


Shane died [age 55] on Monday of lung cancer. 

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/171342658/shane-john-acton

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10 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Oh great.  Thanks a lot.  Now that I’ve finally made a conscious choice, and also followed through on it (day 5 or so today) to get off Facebook for good —made easier hearing an interview with the author of the new anti-FB book, “Zucked” yesterday, and after iPhone did an automatic update for the phone the other night last week, with the result that the stored FB login credentials in the phone weren’t saved —so getting into FB now requires me to enter log in/password, and I simply cannot be bothered to retrieve the info—it seemed like perfect time to try to break the habit/addiction, so artfully created by Zuckerberg et al.— I now have more YouTube shit competing for my very limited free time! :-). Goddamn “attention economy”!!

Go single, go small, go now!  (Is it even possible now to go cruising without a blog, Patreon account and FB page?! Kidding.)

Well if you need a non facebook and non you tube account for inspiration then you really need to accelerate straight to the Primo Grade A of all small boat adventures, that have few peers or rivals, and have a read of:

http://turtleislands.net/tmc/default.html

The Travels of Miss Cindy - I have raved on about this guy and his boat before here in these forums. So refreshing, so inspiring - so very anti "yachting"...... This is sailboat voyaging at its very best.

Trust me, you will enjoy....... 

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13 hours ago, Boink said:

Well if you need a non facebook and non you tube account for inspiration then you really need to accelerate straight to the Primo Grade A of all small boat adventures, that have few peers or rivals, and have a read of:

http://turtleislands.net/tmc/default.html

The Travels of Miss Cindy - I have raved on about this guy and his boat before here in these forums. So refreshing, so inspiring - so very anti "yachting"...... This is sailboat voyaging at its very best.

Trust me, you will enjoy....... 

That’s pretty cool - I like the *idea* of that —it’s certainly more luxurious than doing such a voyage by kayak, say, since you have a roof (cabin).  

But, 16’...offshore...I wouldn’t have the guts for that!  Still, a very cheap way to go (solo voyaging) and therefore financially liberating.

This thread started in my mind as a way, I think, to generate some ideas to help me/us decide whether to keep the boat we have —33’, as big as I’d ever want— or downsize/simplify some.  Love the idea of the 25’ Cape Dory in my original post b/c could be hauled/stored temporarily in a trailer without need to hire an expensive speciality hauling truck (as for current boat).

I’m increasingly liking the idea of something trailerable and thus storable, to ease the cost of ownership.  As it is, we keep our boat on a mooring (so, basically for free) 6 months of the year, then pay for a dock in winter.  But what if we had, say, a Corsair 31 trimaran instead?  Trailerable, storable in our yard in winter, or longer if we wanted.  But - would I take one across an ocean?  These guys did —and through the Arctic—

http://corsairmarine.com/news/sailing-impossible-north-west-passage-corsair-celebrates-30-years-of-adventure/

...but I’m not sure I’d be confident crossing an ocean in something with folding amas...hardly qualifies as “small and simple” - but simpler in terms of being able to relatively easily pull boat out of the water to store. Nor’Sea27? How bad are they?

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I think I brought miss cindy to CA a number of years ago.  we all thought it was great.  One of us, i'm not sure who, eventually made the true statement: (not a quote but close) " if that guy had come to sa before he left and said 'hey i'm going to sail  a 16' homebuilt ply cat down the pacific coast, haul it across nicaragua and sail across the caribbean to florida' we would have called him crazy".  fortunately for him, he just did it! :D.  and the pic of him talking to CHIPs guys beside the Celebrity with the boat on the roof?  fucking priceless.

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On 10/24/2019 at 5:32 AM, Boink said:

I remember this You Tube clip from some posting on Anarchy, but its well worth a re-visit and fits in nicely to the theme of this thread.

Enjoy.....

 

I watched a lot of cruising videos - this is one of the best which already has found its way into my hall of fame. You did very well in letting us know what you experienced during this marvellous voyage. Thank you..

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We do several weeks at a time on our Bay Hen.

21 feet, only 900 pounds, mast tabernacle, very trailerable.  We never use marinas. Launch at public boat launches and beach if we want to go ashore.  No need for a dinghy.  We can get to some pretty out of the way places with the 9 inch draft to.

 

 

2019-04-21_20-59-46.jpg

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5 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Damn you for introducing Rimas to my thread! :-)

But he does have a certain amount of Buddha-like serenity about him...or is that the countenance of a simpleton... :-) 

In a Chauncey Gardener sort of way. 

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1 minute ago, Elegua said:

In a Chauncey Gardener sort of way. 

Yes!  
 

There is someone in the long-running Rimas thread in SA who brilliantly (and perhaps somewhat cruelly) took Rimas’ written utterances (presumably from his FB page?) and put them on seascape/sky photographic background pics, making them look like esoteric haiku or terse prophetic utterances from a sage.  “Thus spake Rimas...”. They’re pretty funny. 

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23 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

 

I’m increasingly liking the idea of something trailerable and thus storable, to ease the cost of ownership.  As it is, we keep our boat on a mooring (so, basically for free) 6 months of the year, then pay for a dock in winter.  But what if we had, say, a Corsair 31 trimaran instead?  Trailerable, storable in our yard in winter, or longer if we wanted.  But - would I take one across an ocean?  These guys did —and through the Arctic—

http://corsairmarine.com/news/sailing-impossible-north-west-passage-corsair-celebrates-30-years-of-adventure/

...but I’m not sure I’d be confident crossing an ocean in something with folding amas...hardly qualifies as “small and simple” - but simpler in terms of being able to relatively easily pull boat out of the water to store. Nor’Sea27? How bad are they?

I did just that with a friend.

We took my Farrier F9 on a 1800 mile ocean race.

When I entered the boat in the race I had three sails namely main, jib and storm jib. We were lent two kites off a chubby little 9 meter monohull.

Instruments? A VHF radio, speedo and echo sounder and a little Garmin e trec GPS. Plotting on paper charts. We were lent a sat phone.

A Windex at the top of the mast and a torch to check it at night.

A friend lent us a life raft.

Cooking on a single burner gas stove. Lose bottles of water packed low down for drinking.

Sunlounger cushions to sleep on.

Two solar panels hot wired straight to the battery for power.

We had a choice, go now with what we've got, or never go at all. We chose to go.

And we capped it with a first to finish. The F9 or Corsair 31 is a great boat offshore.

Regards.

image.jpg

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Sailboat designer John Welsford drew a boat for himself for extended cruising. You can see his thoughts on what was necessary here. HIs boat is under construction, but another builder has completed the build of hull #1 of the class. 

2019-10-26_1309.png

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On 10/23/2019 at 7:40 AM, chester said:

lets not forget Dave and JaJa Martin who went around on a cal 25 and had 2 or 3 kids in the process

Their daughter Holly has started her first solo circumnavigation.

 

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On 10/23/2019 at 12:49 PM, Roam said:

How to Sail Oceans youtube channel. Guy did a circumnavigation on a small engineless boat and now regularly sails between the Caribbean and Chesapeak.

 

 

Kevin’s great. 

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On 10/26/2019 at 8:20 AM, trisail said:

I did just that with a friend.

We took my Farrier F9 on a 1800 mile ocean race.

When I entered the boat in the race I had three sails namely main, jib and storm jib. We were lent two kites off a chubby little 9 meter monohull.

Instruments? A VHF radio, speedo and echo sounder and a little Garmin e trec GPS. Plotting on paper charts. We were lent a sat phone.

A Windex at the top of the mast and a torch to check it at night.

A friend lent us a life raft.

Cooking on a single burner gas stove. Lose bottles of water packed low down for drinking.

Sunlounger cushions to sleep on.

Two solar panels hot wired straight to the battery for power.

We had a choice, go now with what we've got, or never go at all. We chose to go.

And we capped it with a first to finish. The F9 or Corsair 31 is a great boat offshore.

Regards.

image.jpg

What race did you do?

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I am not sure that they entirely belong to the small and simple but definitely to the go now category...

 

 

I kind of relate well to their videos as although I've never crossed an ocean, I've sailed boats of similar size ad feel that the videos reflect the experience.

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14 hours ago, blunderfull said:

Ayup.   Excellent sailor.    
 

At 3.00 in this episode she goes into a little backstory on Dave & JaJa:

 

Some much, much older back story.  Absolutely epic - Dave is “da man”!  Not the cushiest ride...but just $15K to rebuild and fit out; took them around the world over a number of years.

http://www.goodoldboat.com/pdfs/JF05MartinDream.pdf

0C272A66-C1BB-4E84-9F2E-64D888250B90.jpeg

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7 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

0C272A66-C1BB-4E84-9F2E-64D888250B90.jpeg

Not really very good advice - I couldn't count the number of boats I've seen that have had that advice applied to them, never got put back together and then got sold for pennies, given away or scrapped.

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16 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Not really very good advice - I couldn't count the number of boats I've seen that have had that advice applied to them, never got put back together and then got sold for pennies, given away or scrapped.

completely agree

sometimes they dump bulkheads and cupboards without taking patterns - they trash wiring systems

utter madness

 

Dylan

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25 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Not really very good advice - I couldn't count the number of boats I've seen that have had that advice applied to them, never got put back together and then got sold for pennies, given away or scrapped.

You have to realize that Dave Martin is taking tongue-in-cheek here - and referring to himself.  And he’s also very skilled.. (He similarly totally gutted  the inside of and completely rebuilt/rerigged a 33’ steel boat, afterwards sailing it to the Arctic with three young kids.  He doesn’t seem like the type to be undetermined :-)  See http://www.iceblinksail.com/. That was just a few years after returning from around the world on the Cal 25 he rebuilt...sounds like a madman!  A do-er, anyway :-) :-) )

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:
9 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

0C272A66-C1BB-4E84-9F2E-64D888250B90.jpeg

Not really very good advice - I couldn't count the number of boats I've seen that have had that advice applied to them, never got put back together and then got sold for pennies, given away or scrapped.

Yeah but those boats probably were at the bottom of the heap already.

And by getting them out of circulation, that makes the rest of our boats more valuable!!

FB- Doug

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2 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

You have to realize that Dave Martin is taking tongue-in-cheek here - and referring to himself.  And he’s also very skilled.. (He similarly totally gutted  the inside of and completely rebuilt/rerigged a 33’ steel boat, afterwards sailing it to the Arctic with three young kids.  He doesn’t seem like the type to be undetermined :-)  See http://www.iceblinksail.com/. That was just a few years after returning from around the world on the Cal 25 he rebuilt...sounds like a madman!  A do-er, anyway :-) :-) )

Holly Martin Seems to have Dave’s humour too.  She offers up self-deprecating bits that, if you’re not into her droll playfulness, you might think her a complete amateur, rather than the very able seawoman she already is at 27 years old.

Sailing standards/sense of adventure are very high in that family.  Very cool to see.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

You have to realize that Dave Martin is taking tongue-in-cheek here - and referring to himself.  And he’s also very skilled.. (He similarly totally gutted  the inside of and completely rebuilt/rerigged a 33’ steel boat, afterwards sailing it to the Arctic with three young kids.  He doesn’t seem like the type to be undetermined :-)  See http://www.iceblinksail.com/. That was just a few years after returning from around the world on the Cal 25 he rebuilt...sounds like a madman!  A do-er, anyway :-) :-) )

He did a very impressive job of rebuilding that Cal after sailing to the East coast from the PNW. Complete gut job in a swanky yard with a sympathetic yard captain. 

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Sam Holmes, a cheerful young man who sailed his 23 foot Ranger from L.A. to Hawaii:

He bought the boat for about 2500 bucks.  After doing some sailing around the Hawaiian Islands he's sold her there.  He had the idea to do a circumnavigation before, but not sure what his next move is having sold the boat, whether he will acquire another boat to circumnavigate, or move on to other things.

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5 hours ago, trisail said:

Hallo Russell,

We sailed the 2010 Governor's Cup Race. Simons Town, South Africa to St Helena island in the mid-Atlantic.

Holy shit, that's a serious race! I saw an amazing photo of an F-31 taken a few years ago at the start of that race. Was that you? Any more choice photos?

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3 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

Holy shit, that's a serious race! I saw an amazing photo of an F-31 taken a few years ago at the start of that race. Was that you? Any more choice photos?

Morning,

The pics you saw was my boat ( F9AX), but with the new owner sailing it.

He has kitted the boat out with all the bells and whistles. Taller carbon rotating mast, high tec sails, code zero sails on a furler, every instrument imaginable etc. Also upgraded the foils to carbon and the latest Farrier profiles.

The new owner has done the race three times with the boat and is going again in a year's time. He has recently added another meter to the mast! These days the race starts from Cape Town. Our boat has taken line honors 4 in a row now. Not bad for a backyard built boat.

Wheras I actually wanted a minimalist boat, the new owner is the exact opposite. Nice guy and a very good multihull sailor.

Regards.

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44 minutes ago, Hovertank said:

Sailing Dawn Treader.  Simple and small.  Arrived in the Falklands Dec 2018.  Not sure where they are now.

30 foot 1966 Allied Seawind sloop

shakedown-2.jpg?w=825&h=510&crop=1

 

https://sailingdawntreader.com/about/

 

Very sensible main hatch upgrade on that boat.  Especially for heading down there, as Dawntreader is.  (My boat came that way, which I know I’ll be very glad for one day when a big wave comes aboard...). Here’s another “classi plastic” that’s done that (very well).  Shows how he modified the companionway to do it: https://glennwakefieldaroundtheworld.wordpress.com/westwindii-refit/

I remember being younger and more naive, learning about bigger keelboats, and I nearly bought an Allied Seawind to fix up.  Sorta wish I did, I believe it was overall fairly cheap.  Beautiful and fast and spacious, no. But it will definitely get the job done, relatively cheaply, especially as a first offshore cruiser.

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I admire a lot of the projects they've done on Dawn Treader.  Tried all sorts of ways (in my head) to try to make a hatch mod like that work on my boat, but the geometry makes it pretty difficult.  Then the perfect hatch for it came up on Craigslist, but slipped through my fingers.  Aw shucks.  

IIIRC, these are the folks who also cut out the cabin sole and built a big integral fresh water tank in the keel sump.  That looked like a project and a half! 

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1 hour ago, toddster said:

I admire a lot of the projects they've done on Dawn Treader.  Tried all sorts of ways (in my head) to try to make a hatch mod like that work on my boat, but the geometry makes it pretty difficult.  Then the perfect hatch for it came up on Craigslist, but slipped through my fingers.  Aw shucks.  

IIIRC, these are the folks who also cut out the cabin sole and built a big integral fresh water tank in the keel sump.  That looked like a project and a half! 

Wow, they really have done a major rebuild of that boat.  (Like many of us...so why does it always blow me away reading other peoples’ detailed accounts of their extensive refits?  Probably b/c I never bothered to document in detail (except in pics, not text) all the major work I’ve done, so reading someone else’s makes me positively weep with fatigue :-) ).

Get this: they use a lead line!  They’ve eliminated most of their through-hulls, taking “go simple” just a step further.  Good on’em.   They’ve put a lot of thought into this boat.  (But, personally, I just can’t see getting rid of a basic depth transducer.)

“We fiberglassed over through hulls for the head, sink, engine, depth transducer, and speed log. We replaced them with systems not requiring through hulls: sawdust head, bucket sink, outboard engine, lead line for depth, and gps for speed. Two through hulls remain, both for the cockpit footwell drains. These are individually isolated from the rest of the boat in watertight compartments, minimizing risk in the event of a valve or hose failure.”  https://sailingdawntreader.com/2015/12/14/watertight-companionway/

 

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23 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Wow, they really have done a major rebuild of that boat.  (Like many of us...so why does it always blow me away reading other peoples’ detailed accounts of their extensive refits?  Probably b/c I never bothered to document in detail (except in pics, not text) all the major work I’ve done, so reading someone else’s makes me positively weep with fatigue :-) ).

Get this: they use a lead line!  They’ve eliminated most of their through-hulls, taking “go simple” just a step further.  Good on’em.   They’ve put a lot of thought into this boat.  (But, personally, I just can’t see getting rid of a basic depth transducer.)

“We fiberglassed over through hulls for the head, sink, engine, depth transducer, and speed log. We replaced them with systems not requiring through hulls: sawdust head, bucket sink, outboard engine, lead line for depth, and gps for speed. Two through hulls remain, both for the cockpit footwell drains. These are individually isolated from the rest of the boat in watertight compartments, minimizing risk in the event of a valve or hose failure.”  https://sailingdawntreader.com/2015/12/14/watertight-companionway/

 

They could have put in an in-hull transducer for depth, there is a point where being a Luddite is just dumb.

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47 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

They could have put in an in-hull transducer for depth, there is a point where being a Luddite is just dumb.

“Swing the lead, Billy!”

“Aye, cap’n.

[lowers lead line into water a long, long way]

”Well, swab, whatcha find?

”An unknown bottom at half a cable, sir.  I’ll have to recharge the tallow and swing the lead again, cap’n...”

Um, yeah, no.

But I do like James Baldwin’s (www.yachtatom.com) way of inspiring people (like Dawntreader) to ditch their ancient, saltwater cooled inboards, and glass in a custom locker for an outboard motor.  That takes some guts to do.  Easier if you’re truly low-budget and want to go sooner than later.  Will force you to become a better sailor, too, and be more  cautious. And develop patience...

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5 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

“We fiberglassed over through hulls for the head, sink, engine, depth transducer, and speed log. We replaced them with systems not requiring through hulls: sawdust head, bucket sink, outboard engine, lead line for depth, and gps for speed. Two through hulls remain, both for the cockpit footwell drains. These are individually isolated from the rest of the boat in watertight compartments, minimizing risk in the event of a valve or hose failure.”  https://sailingdawntreader.com/2015/12/14/watertight-companionway/

 

I've only got 3 through-hulls in my 12m boat anyway so what's the big deal? Salt water intake, sink drain & head drain. All with industrial ball valves in very accessible locations.

Echosounder transducer is in a watertight sea chest so cannot flood the boat even if by chance a direct hit smashes it back into the hull, an event which is vanishingly unlikely seeing as the transducer face is recessed into the 40mm thick keel shoe.

As for getting rid of the inboard for an outboard, whatever. I'm not parting with mine. It burns 2 litres/hour at 5 knots. OK it's noisy. That's sufficient incentive not to over-use it. But I can if I need to and I can punch into a head sea for hours if I have to (otherwise I'd go somewhere else).

We built 2 30' 6 tonne workboats. The first one was fitted with twin outboards with the thought that servicing etc would be simpler. Yeah and they sucked fuel and were a PITA. The second one we put in twin turbo diesels. Then refitted the first boat with new 4 stroke o/boards with counter-rotating props which made it a much, much better workboat. But given a choice people still took the diesel powered one.

No disagreement with the 'go simple' philosophy at all but sometimes I think the proponents mistake 'simple' for ignorance. Which is fine - if you can't fix it, it won't be simple I guess.

I started out with the idea of having a simple electrical/electronics system. Now I'm thinking that *just one* more Ethernet cable should do it. Har har har.

FKT

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11 hours ago, Ishmael said:
12 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Wow, they really have done a major rebuild of that boat.  (Like many of us...so why does it always blow me away reading other peoples’ detailed accounts of their extensive refits?  Probably b/c I never bothered to document in detail (except in pics, not text) all the major work I’ve done, so reading someone else’s makes me positively weep with fatigue :-) ).

Get this: they use a lead line!  They’ve eliminated most of their through-hulls, taking “go simple” just a step further.  Good on’em.   They’ve put a lot of thought into this boat.  (But, personally, I just can’t see getting rid of a basic depth transducer.)

“We fiberglassed over through hulls for the head, sink, engine, depth transducer, and speed log. We replaced them with systems not requiring through hulls: sawdust head, bucket sink, outboard engine, lead line for depth, and gps for speed. Two through hulls remain, both for the cockpit footwell drains. These are individually isolated from the rest of the boat in watertight compartments, minimizing risk in the event of a valve or hose failure.”  https://sailingdawntreader.com/2015/12/14/watertight-companionway/

 

They could have put in an in-hull transducer for depth, there is a point where being a Luddite is just dumb.

True.

Do these people have bad luck with thru-hulls? It's a maintenance issue, really. Also, the cockpit drains are whole 'nother kettle of fish. It would be relatively easy to rebuild the cockpit floor so it slopes more and drains into a trunk (or the added outboard well) rather than hoses and thru-hulls. Bigger cross-section equals faster drainage. This is why open transoms are actually safer offshore, despite the crab-crusher fans hatred of them.

Also, I've had diesels and outboards... IMHO you'd have to be a pinhead to replace a diesel with an outboard, unless you had a dead diesel, were really really dirt poor, had no salable skills (to make money to buy parts for the diesel), and a free (or almost free) good outboard. The best outboard will betray you far more often, and propel the boat far less effectively, than a mediocre diesel (assuming it has clean fuel, which some people can't seem to master). The exception might be some cruisers I met who mounted a large outboard on the transom of their 40-footer, because the water was so cold that their diesel never got up to operating temp and they didn't want to murder it.

FB- Doug

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On 10/26/2019 at 10:41 AM, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Yes!  
 

There is someone in the long-running Rimas thread in SA who brilliantly (and perhaps somewhat cruelly) took Rimas’ written utterances (presumably from his FB page?) and put them on seascape/sky photographic background pics, making them look like esoteric haiku or terse prophetic utterances from a sage.  “Thus spake Rimas...”. They’re pretty funny. 

I think that was Clove Hitch. He called it "found poetry."  He was right.

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

And outboards... IMHO you'd have to be a pinhead to replace a diesel with an outboard, unless you had a dead diesel, were really really dirt poor, had no salable skills (to make money to buy parts for the diesel), and a free (or almost free) good outboard. The best outboard will betray you far more often, and propel the boat far less effectively, than a mediocre diesel. the context of this thread —go simple, go small go now— I think removing a dead old diesel can make a lot of sense.  Imagine you’re a 25 or so year old with limited funds facing the prospect of $10K+ to repower an old cruising boat you could afford, which already needs other expensive gear.  I’m thinking of the whole “what can I not do which allow me to go sooner.”

Totally agree re: reliability of outboard vs. diesel, but in the context of this thread —go simple, go small go now— I think removing a dead or dying old diesel can sometimes really make sense.  Imagine you’re a 25 or so year old with limited funds facing the prospect of $10K+ to repower an old cruising boat you could afford to buy, and which already needs other expensive gear.  I’m thinking of the whole “what can I not do which allow me to go sooner” thing.

Lots of examples of successful cruises without engines (and I’m sure others who’ve gone on the rocks for lack of a motor to escape danger...) James Baldwin on Atom (Pearson Triton 28) has been around the world a few times, engineless and with an outboard well he glassed in.  Yves Gelinas (Jean-du-Sud) removed his old engine —true, he sailed around in the Southern Ocean— but he later fitted a means for an outboard.  Dave Martin had an easy choice with his Cal 25 mentioned above: there was no inboard to remove :-)  (But where they stored an outboard after their family grew from the parents to one then two kids, I’d like to know!)

All I’m saying is that it can make sense to remove an old inboard and at least have an outboard.  We’re talking a very different demographic than inhabits this forum :-). I’m trying to create a thread that’ll help nourish the minds of poor, young sailors :-) (They’ll spend their limited funds on satellite systems, etc. so as to be able to keep their blogs/YouTube/Patreon accounts going...)

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1 hour ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Totally agree re: reliability of outboard vs. diesel, but in the context of this thread —go simple, go small go now— I think removing a dead or dying old diesel can sometimes really make sense.  Imagine you’re a 25 or so year old with limited funds facing the prospect of $10K+ to repower an old cruising boat you could afford to buy, and which already needs other expensive gear.  I’m thinking of the whole “what can I not do which allow me to go sooner” thing.

Lots of examples of successful cruises without engines (and I’m sure others who’ve gone on the rocks for lack of a motor to escape danger...) James Baldwin on Atom (Pearson Triton 28) has been around the world a few times, engineless and with an outboard well he glassed in.  Yves Gelinas (Jean-du-Sud) removed his old engine —true, he sailed around in the Southern Ocean— but he later fitted a means for an outboard.  Dave Martin had an easy choice with his Cal 25 mentioned above: there was no inboard to remove :-)  (But where they stored an outboard after their family grew from the parents to one then two kids, I’d like to know!)

All I’m saying is that it can make sense to remove an old inboard and at least have an outboard.  We’re talking a very different demographic than inhabits this forum :-). I’m trying to create a thread that’ll help nourish the minds of poor, young sailors :-) (They’ll spend their limited funds on satellite systems, etc. so as to be able to keep their blogs/YouTube/Patreon accounts going...)

I withdraw the pejorative, shouldn't have gone there. But basically I agree with you here, it's down in the "can't afford to repair the diesel" corner of the envelope. And time certainly equals money, I never charged fellow cruisers for help with mechanical or electrical systems but the opportunity is there.... learn the trade, fix your diesel for less, get going, earn along the way.

One thing (among many) that the Interwebs have completely changed... I tore out an Atomic 4 from a boat I owned, and replaced it with an outboard-powered dinghy. Also removed a working diesel from a different boat and sold it (that was a racing boat and we needed new sails more than an inboard), but that's a different story. Back in those days rebuilding and Atomic 4 was almost impossible due to lack of parts. Now, you can order anything you need for your A4 off the internet, and it's breathed new life into many an old done-in cruiser.

A long-term cruiser, especially one that sails decently to start with, can do without an engine if the skipper is patient (and learns to really sail). The weight and the space may well be better served by tankage, and/or batteries.

OTOH for the way 99% of us use our boats (and I include a heck of a lot of long-term cruisers) a diesel inboard is a very significant asset, brings a lot of good capabilities into the mix.

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Personally I'd draw the line for outboard power somewhere around 5000 Lbs.

As so much of the fleet ages I see more & more 30 footers and bigger with outboards but it's simply cheaping out because a new or rebuilt diesel is so expensive, not really an "option" so to speak.

A 9.9 pushing a 10,000 Lb boat just doesn't cut it IMO. O/K for docking but that's about it.

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18 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Personally I'd draw the line for outboard power somewhere around 5000 Lbs.

As so much of the fleet ages I see more & more 30 footers and bigger with outboards but it's simply cheaping out because a new or rebuilt diesel is so expensive, not really an "option" so to speak.

A 9.9 pushing a 10,000 Lb boat just doesn't cut it IMO. O/K for docking but that's about it.

OK for docking in calm weather, you mean.

But hey, one of the old salts' greatest skills was PATIENCE. Seems to be very difficult to teach nowadays, in fact I'm totally the wrong person to teach that (other than "how NOT to")

FB- Doug

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I have this book in my reading list, about a solo trip by Sam McKinney up the BC coast in a small boat. A very interesting man.

A boat, a pipe and a glass of rum. Following Capt Vancouver's footsteps. http://dory-man.blogspot.com/2009/08/northwest-waters.html

Sams-Dory.jpg

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Personally I'd draw the line for outboard power somewhere around 5000 Lbs.

As so much of the fleet ages I see more & more 30 footers and bigger with outboards but it's simply cheaping out because a new or rebuilt diesel is so expensive, not really an "option" so to speak.

A 9.9 pushing a 10,000 Lb boat just doesn't cut it IMO. O/K for docking but that's about it.

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/seawind-allied

Someone tell the Dawntreaders in their 12,000 lb Seawind to stop voyaging until they get rid of that puny 6 hp outboard and replace it for a lovely diesel, because it's just not going to cut it.  They've crossed the Atlantic and are now somewhere down near the bottom of South America.  

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5 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Personally I'd draw the line for outboard power somewhere around 5000 Lbs.

As so much of the fleet ages I see more & more 30 footers and bigger with outboards but it's simply cheaping out because a new or rebuilt diesel is so expensive, not really an "option" so to speak.

A 9.9 pushing a 10,000 Lb boat just doesn't cut it IMO. O/K for docking but that's about it.

There's an old wooden tug out the front of my place. It has an outboard bolted on the stern.....

FKT

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3 hours ago, gone said:

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/seawind-allied

Someone tell the Dawntreaders in their 12,000 lb Seawind to stop voyaging until they get rid of that puny 6 hp outboard and replace it for a lovely diesel, because it's just not going to cut it.  They've crossed the Atlantic and are now somewhere down near the bottom of South America.  

People have crossed the Atlantic in a rubber raft so that proves nothing.

Excellent seamanship will mean you don't get into a position where a reliable engine capable of pushing your boat into strong weather isn't necessary.

A good reliable motor is a wonderful safety fallback for the other 95% of us.

Bill Tilman lost 2 vessels. At least one of those if not both was due to engine problems.

FKT

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