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Sydney to Hobart 2020


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The importance of punctuation.

You are all missing the point you shallow trophy hunting cocks...... It's about participation and going out into nature with the wind in your hair and your bro's by your side..... lol Pease love

The two handed exclusion from the Tattersalls Cup is going to a protest tomorrow. I hope they win the protest.

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NOR requirement for the 2 handed crews

"At least one crew member shall have competed in a Category 2 or higher twohanded division or race in the last three years."

Any idea what CAT 2 2 handed races there are ?  Will we see them in the GC or Bird Island ?

Doesn't mention anything about autopilots that I can see

 

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36 minutes ago, Bill E Goat said:

NOR requirement for the 2 handed crews

"At least one crew member shall have competed in a Category 2 or higher twohanded division or race in the last three years."

Any idea what CAT 2 2 handed races there are ?  Will we see them in the GC or Bird Island ?

Doesn't mention anything about autopilots that I can see

 

Melb to Hobart, king island, Devonport, Stanley are cat two and have 2h divisions

and then there was Melb Osaka.

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On 5/28/2020 at 7:09 PM, Bill E Goat said:

NOR requirement for the 2 handed crews

"At least one crew member shall have competed in a Category 2 or higher twohanded division or race in the last three years."

Any idea what CAT 2 2 handed races there are ?  Will we see them in the GC or Bird Island ?

Doesn't mention anything about autopilots that I can see

 

Melbourne to Hobart has a 2 handed div, and is Cat 2... though in my eyes potentially a tougher race than the S2H. I haven't done either race, but both are on the cards (now that I have a suitable(?) boat for short handed offshore stuff. 

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12 hours ago, lydia said:

Can't see this race happening right now!

Unless you sail round the finish make and back to Sydney.

That means no interstate entries for Hammo either.

Damn.

 

 

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19 hours ago, lydia said:

Can't see this race happening right now!

Unless you sail round the finish make and back to Sydney.

Just write on your entry you’re from NT!
 

Premier Peter Gutwein says Tasmania will have "safe travel bubbles" with WA, SA and NT in two weeks.  

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Will the Southport race still be going ahead with the QLD/NSW border being close for all Sydney siders?

I guess the QLD boats could sail down to Sydney for the start and then hang around to the starting gun without going ashore.

The Sydney Hobart could change to a Sydney to Melbourne race if the Tassie bubble does not include NSW and VIC

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Nah it's going back to the good ole' South Solitary race. From Pittwater, round one of the Solitary Island's off Coffs and back again.

Guaranteed not to be a sled ride! :D

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What a bunch of crybaby rich git owners.

from the mythical front page

 

There always seems to be a new wrinkle to iron out of the racing rules. When the Cruising Yacht Club of Australia decided to introduce a two-handed division in this year’s Sydney-Hobart race the initiative was seen as a timely development in the 75-year history of the event. Two-handers now compete in the Fastnet Race, and there will be a mixed two-handed offshore event in the Paris 2024 Olympics.

But the ‘conventional’ owners who race fully-crewed yachts in Australia soon spotted a catch. In accordance with common practice established in Northern Hemisphere short-handed events, the CYCA confirmed it would allow two-handed entrants in Hobart 2020 to use autopilot – mechanical helming guided by computer navigation.

That ruling makes perfect sense on safety grounds. The two-handers can expect to be at sea for up to four days completing the 628nm distance from Sydney to Hobart. There will, inevitably, be times when the need to handle the boat and its sails must demand the combined efforts of both crew working together. And if one sailor becomes injured, exhausted or ill, their crew-mate cannot steer forever. 

The problem, though, was that the CYCA Notice of Race for the Sydney-Hobart made it clear that the double-handed yachts would be eligible for the Overall IRC winner’s prize – the Tattersalls Cup. That’s the point at which a powerful group of owners of the elite fully-crewed yachts dug in their heels. Surely, they argued, autopilot – and the sophisticated routing software that now drives it – would be an unfair advantage. 

They had a point. Any decent auto-helming system now drives better than most humans, especially downhill. The basic RRS rules specifically prohibit mechanical assistance of this kind. If the short-handers are to race alongside conventional IRC entrants in the same division, then shouldn’t the same rules apply to all?

After a brief, discreet – and thankfully bloodless – skirmish between the owners and the club, the CYCA has now decided to amend their Sydney-Hobart NoR. Common sense has prevailed. Short-handed yachts that choose to use autopilot will compete in their own division, but not be eligible for the Overall prize. 

There is, of course, a hidden irony in all this. Many of the same owners who complained about the unfair advantage of powered steering themselves campaign yachts with powered winches, canting keels and water ballast. Maybe they, too, should race in a separate division – and give the crews who still get to Hobart by human power alone a better chance of winning the main prize.  

– anarchist David 

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4 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

After a brief, discreet – and thankfully bloodless – skirmish between the owners and the club, the CYCA has now decided to amend their Sydney-Hobart NoR. Common sense has prevailed. Short-handed yachts that choose to use autopilot will compete in their own division, but not be eligible for the Overall prize. 

Ridiculous.

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14 hours ago, Jethrow said:

Nah it's going back to the good ole' South Solitary race. From Pittwater, round one of the Solitary Island's off Coffs and back again.

Guaranteed not to be a sled ride! :D

No body is too keen to reintroduce the Montague Island Race.

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12 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

What a bunch of crybaby rich git owners.

from the mythical front page

 

There always seems to be a new wrinkle to iron out of the racing rules. When the Cruising Yacht Club of Australia decided to introduce a two-handed division in this year’s Sydney-Hobart race the initiative was seen as a timely development in the 75-year history of the event. Two-handers now compete in the Fastnet Race, and there will be a mixed two-handed offshore event in the Paris 2024 Olympics.

But the ‘conventional’ owners who race fully-crewed yachts in Australia soon spotted a catch. In accordance with common practice established in Northern Hemisphere short-handed events, the CYCA confirmed it would allow two-handed entrants in Hobart 2020 to use autopilot – mechanical helming guided by computer navigation.

That ruling makes perfect sense on safety grounds. The two-handers can expect to be at sea for up to four days completing the 628nm distance from Sydney to Hobart. There will, inevitably, be times when the need to handle the boat and its sails must demand the combined efforts of both crew working together. And if one sailor becomes injured, exhausted or ill, their crew-mate cannot steer forever. 

The problem, though, was that the CYCA Notice of Race for the Sydney-Hobart made it clear that the double-handed yachts would be eligible for the Overall IRC winner’s prize – the Tattersalls Cup. That’s the point at which a powerful group of owners of the elite fully-crewed yachts dug in their heels. Surely, they argued, autopilot – and the sophisticated routing software that now drives it – would be an unfair advantage. 

They had a point. Any decent auto-helming system now drives better than most humans, especially downhill. The basic RRS rules specifically prohibit mechanical assistance of this kind. If the short-handers are to race alongside conventional IRC entrants in the same division, then shouldn’t the same rules apply to all?

After a brief, discreet – and thankfully bloodless – skirmish between the owners and the club, the CYCA has now decided to amend their Sydney-Hobart NoR. Common sense has prevailed. Short-handed yachts that choose to use autopilot will compete in their own division, but not be eligible for the Overall prize. 

There is, of course, a hidden irony in all this. Many of the same owners who complained about the unfair advantage of powered steering themselves campaign yachts with powered winches, canting keels and water ballast. Maybe they, too, should race in a separate division – and give the crews who still get to Hobart by human power alone a better chance of winning the main prize.  

– anarchist David 

Complete bullshit, there is more to two handed sailing than the Autohelm and routing software (most boats have this anyway). The CYCA powerful group of owners (mostly TP52's) obviously run CYCA and the Sydney Hobart race committee!. The FasNet race I believe allow two handed entries to race for overall IRC contention!

Many of the CYCA powerful group of owners have not obviously tried two handed sailing and have no idea how hard it is to sail a boat to it's IRC potential as it would be very hard for a two handed boat to win IRC overall against a fully crewed boat unless the conditions were very light winds over say 5 days of racing.

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4 hours ago, Chucky said:

Complete bullshit, there is more to two handed sailing than the Autohelm and routing software (most boats have this anyway). The CYCA powerful group of owners (mostly TP52's) obviously run CYCA and the Sydney Hobart race committee!. The FasNet race I believe allow two handed entries to race for overall IRC contention!

Many of the CYCA powerful group of owners have not obviously tried two handed sailing and have no idea how hard it is to sail a boat to it's IRC potential as it would be very hard for a two handed boat to win IRC overall against a fully crewed boat unless the conditions were very light winds over say 5 days of racing.

Spot on Chucky. And last I checked, autohelms can't steer in big seas as well as a human, somewhat depending on wave angle

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10 hours ago, Bill E Goat said:

Imagine the ignominy of your million dollar TP52 campaign being beaten by two blokes in a 40 footer   33fter

FIFO, 33 ft more likely.

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Is there any rule this 125 footer can't be raced in the S2H?1635138790_swan125.PNG.2942c790e063f8c4b9ec387752c46eb4.PNG

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5 minutes ago, Schakel said:

Is there any rule this 125 footer can't be raced in the S2H?1635138790_swan125.PNG.2942c790e063f8c4b9ec387752c46eb4.PNG

except for the 100' loa limit?

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21 minutes ago, Trovão said:

except for the 100' loa limit?

Well that is a hard blow for the nautor Swan designers team.
Still they depict their exuberant 125' as a carbon racer with the tasmanian basalt rocks.
Perhaps for the bucket cup?
2095776010_Noticeofraces2h.PNG.87fc919dd35083739d3eb7006cddd5ea.PNG
1272655905_swan1252.PNG.aa24519f03638ebce77930196a9d6500.PNG
notice of race S2h
 

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36 minutes ago, lydia said:

All academic as I can't see anyone from NSW or Victoria let ashore!

Should n"t affect the WO guys to much.

Possibly beneficial in fact.

They normally only hang around long enough for Richo to step ashore and put his foot in his mouth before shoving off.

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From the Oz.

Bugger!

Sydney to Hobart race sailing against wind

CYC Commodore Paul Billingham. Picture: Michael Bilbe-Taylor CYC Commodore Paul Billingham. Picture: Michael Bilbe-Taylor

It hasn’t been called off yet, but the organiser of the Sydney to Hobart yacht race have a message for fans – “don’t ask me to predict what that outcome might be”.

The chaos of the COVID-19 pandemic collided with the yachting world last week, after the Cruising Yacht Club of Australia was shut for deep cleaning and its vice-commodore, Noel Cornish, tested positive.

The CYC is the spiritual home of the Sydney to Hobart, and ­despite the coronavirus pandemic, commodore Paul Billingham is not calling time on one of the most famous races in the country.

“Not at this stage,” Mr Billingham said. “I think it’d be naive for us to assume that we’re not going to have to adapt it in some way, but don’t ask me to try to predict what that outcome might be because none of us know.

“Who knows what will be the end of August, let alone the end of November when we make the ­decision?”

With 54 boats already registered, Mr Billingham said he was confident the race would run with between 80 to 90 yachts, despite the absence of international crews.

 

Then there’s another, more pressing, problem: it’s not possible to travel from Sydney to Hobart under restrictions put in place by the Tasmanian government.

Race organisers are talking to the Tasmanian government and the Hobart City Council, Mr Billingham said.

“We’ll obviously adapt the finishing experience whether it’s a constitution dock or prize-giving — or whatever the rules are at the time,” he said.

The pandemic has already claimed one of the CYC’s mainstays. Its second-largest race, the Noakes Sydney to Gold Coast yacht race, has been postponed until at least October.

Then there’s the financial situation at the Rushcutters Bay institution, a club which has long featured on the Sydney scene with a high-powered board of ­directors.

The CYC posted a $1.02m loss last year, despite revenues of nearly $9m. For the 12 months ending last March, it lost another $680,000, new financial records show. It has about $129,000 in the bank.

And there was a warning.

“The effect of (the coronavirus) on the company has been a drop in revenue from bar, food and merchandise sales as a result of the closure of the clubhouse and certain racing and training events being cancelled or postponed indefinitely,” financial statements lodged with the corporate regulator last month show.

But Mr Billingham said being closed at this time of year had ­actually helped the club’s bottom line. “Money is the least of our concerns right now,” he said.

 

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The race will be cancelled let's not kid ourselves. And will Tasmania want 2 thousand odd sailors into their state? Victorian boats and people will not be allowed into any state for at least another year with some forecasting up to 2 years? Flights into and out of anywhere are rare and restricted. Reading the above the CYCA bottom line is better when the whole placed is closed as opposed to being open but having a small number of people through. Too many reasons for this race to happen unfortunately but they won't announce it because they are still hoping the virus will magically disappear. 

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On 7/31/2020 at 7:28 AM, Schakel said:

Well that is a hard blow for the nautor Swan designers team.
Still they depict their exuberant 125' as a carbon racer with the tasmanian basalt rocks.
Perhaps for the bucket cup?
2095776010_Noticeofraces2h.PNG.87fc919dd35083739d3eb7006cddd5ea.PNG
1272655905_swan1252.PNG.aa24519f03638ebce77930196a9d6500.PNG
notice of race S2h
 

Yes bit silly of Swan to show the boat theoretically competing in the Hobart helicopters and all. No Hobart this year anyhow.

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3 hours ago, Bill E Goat said:

They will run it with a quarantine area in Hobart with all crew having to return on the boat.  They will setup a bar, provisioning area and off you go and no stopping and setting foot on the land on the way

What about toilet and showers etc can't see the crew wanting to go back to the boat after the race. Most want to get off and fly home. 

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3 hours ago, Bill E Goat said:

They will run it with a quarantine area in Hobart with all crew having to return on the boat.  They will setup a bar, provisioning area and off you go and no stopping and setting foot on the land on the way

I did suggest Quarantine Bay a while back.

but given that the currents boats are at least twice as fast as boats from the early 1970s be easy to go the cast ray esplanade mark to starboard and south head to port

most would be back by just after New Year’s Eve

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5 hours ago, terrafirma said:

The race will be cancelled let's not kid ourselves. And will Tasmania want 2 thousand odd sailors into their state? Victorian boats and people will not be allowed into any state for at least another year with some forecasting up to 2 years? Flights into and out of anywhere are rare and restricted. Reading the above the CYCA bottom line is better when the whole placed is closed as opposed to being open but having a small number of people through. Too many reasons for this race to happen unfortunately but they won't announce it because they are still hoping the virus will magically disappear. 

They're not all odd. Many, but not all.

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2 hours ago, terrafirma said:

What about toilet and showers etc can't see the crew wanting to go back to the boat after the race. Most want to get off and fly home. 

Not all boat owners who compete in the Sydney to  Hobart Race are cheque book sailors. Ie do not have paid crew to deliver their boat home with their race crew

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3 hours ago, terrafirma said:

What about toilet and showers etc can't see the crew wanting to go back to the boat after the race. Most want to get off and fly home. 

They will be the soft ones!

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2 hours ago, Chucky said:

Not all boat owners who compete in the Sydney to  Hobart Race are cheque book sailors. Ie do not have paid crew to deliver their boat home with their race crew

Sadly it is not just the pro's that want to jump off & fly back.

After 23 races & 20 deliveries,  (2 DNFs & 1 boat too damaged to return straight away),  it always amazes me to see the inexperienced crews who want to jump on a plane on to be home for New Year or straight after the NYE show in Hobart.  Then next long race they are Hobart veterans and can't understand why they aren't on the wheel.  Just when do they think they should get the experience to be given these opportunities if not on deliveries.

And anyway when I was a boy the job wasn't done until the toys were back in their box!

Just a minute I have to go and chase some kids off my lawn.

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11 hours ago, TUBBY said:

Sadly it is not just the pro's that want to jump off & fly back.

After 23 races & 20 deliveries,  (2 DNFs & 1 boat too damaged to return straight away),  it always amazes me to see the inexperienced crews who want to jump on a plane on to be home for New Year or straight after the NYE show in Hobart.  Then next long race they are Hobart veterans and can't understand why they aren't on the wheel.  Just when do they think they should get the experience to be given these opportunities if not on deliveries.

And anyway when I was a boy the job wasn't done until the toys were back in their box!

Just a minute I have to go and chase some kids off my lawn.

Hence my point.  The race won't happen. Even in the Vendee Artic race just completed by the Imoca sailors when they crossed the finish line they had to turn around and go home after sailing for 11 days. How many crews will want to finish the Hobart and turn around and sail home again?  Tasmania will not allow anyone from Victoria and NSW into the state until the virus is long gone. Anyone want to predict COVID will be long gone by December? 

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On 7/29/2020 at 11:08 PM, The Dark Knight said:

Surely, they argued, autopilot – and the sophisticated routing software that now drives it – would be an unfair advantage. 

Unfair advantage? WTF. Complete fucking garbage.

Firstly routing software doesn't drive AP. They both have routing software which needs a human to drive it so that part equal.

However a dedicated navigator is not standing watches on a crewed boat (but in reality some spending more time at the table) versus 2H the advantage rests with crewed router driver doing that routing.

Secondly driving a crewed boat with multiple drivers swapping out every hour or so in heavy shit. Someone else doing all the trimming after every sail or course change. 

Driving with AP evidence of someone on the helm for the overwhelming majority of SH races is testament to a human can still drive better over shorter time periods than a AP.

However human still has to trim the pilot to max it's performance. After a course change or sail change a crewed driver is immediately driving. However on a SH the AP first requires driving to recalibrate correction settings. 

There are only two external conditions wind and sea state that drive an AP. However then there are million of adjustments required just like the human brain of someone driving. While automatic they still require hand tuning.

Think of a SH crew as a carer (C) and and AP is an autistic person (AP) who is really good at fucking maths, but that person can't feed themselves. They still need external assistance to produce that maths. 

So what produces a rudder angle/response rate? AFTER it has gone through things like a multi axis sensor to measure heel, roll and pitch a masthead AWS/AWA correction can be applied. This is before even converting apparent wind to true data using instantanoues BS and course changes to create true wind data to drive AP. Then things like gust response factors and sea state sitting in your head to drive calibration tweaks that then drive AP and that rudder response rate.

Just saying it makes your head sore, let alone doing it.

This recalibration of the AP by C might take 15 minutes in some wind sea combination conditions AFTER EVERY course or sail change.

Even after doing all that the crewed driver is driving better providing they are rested.

Therefore if any crewed boats are scared about being beaten by a 2 humans plus an autopilot...then my guess they are probably still scared of the dark, living at home with their parents while kissing their sister to get a hard on.

Fucking turnips.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Unfair advantage? WTF. Complete fucking garbage.

Firstly routing software doesn't drive AP. They both have routing software which needs a human to drive it so that part equal.

However a dedicated navigator is not standing watches on a crewed boat (but in reality some spending more time at the table) versus 2H the advantage rests with crewed router driver doing that routing.

Secondly driving a crewed boat with multiple drivers swapping out every hour or so in heavy shit. Someone else doing all the trimming after every sail or course change. 

Driving with AP evidence of someone on the helm for the overwhelming majority of SH races is testament to a human can still drive better over shorter time periods than a AP.

However human still has to trim the pilot to max it's performance. After a course change or sail change a crewed driver is immediately driving. However on a SH the AP first requires driving to recalibrate correction settings. 

There are only two external conditions wind and sea state that drive an AP. However then there are million of adjustments required just like the human brain of someone driving. While automatic they still require hand tuning.

Think of a SH crew as a carer (C) and and AP is an autistic person (AP) who is really good at fucking maths, but that person can't feed themselves. They still need external assistance to produce that maths. 

So what produces a rudder angle/response rate? AFTER it has gone through things like a multi axis sensor to measure heel, roll and pitch a masthead AWS/AWA correction can be applied. This is before even converting apparent wind to true data using instantanoues BS and course changes to create true wind data to drive AP. Then things like gust response factors and sea state sitting in your head to drive calibration tweaks that then drive AP and that rudder response rate.

Just saying it makes your head sore, let alone doing it.

This recalibration of the AP by C might take 15 minutes in some wind sea combination conditions AFTER EVERY course or sail change.

Even after doing all that the crewed driver is driving better providing they are rested.

Therefore if any crewed boats are scared about being beaten by a 2 humans plus an autopilot...then my guess they are probably still scared of the dark, living at home with their parents while kissing their sister to get a hard on.

Fucking turnips.

Agree 100 % Jack. Good to see you back anyhow. Brexit finished for you for now? :D

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1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

 

Hence my point.  The race won't happen. Even in the Vendee Artic race just completed by the Imoca sailors when they crossed the finish line they had to turn around and go home after sailing for 11 days. How many crews will want to finish the Hobart and turn around and sail home again?  Tasmania will not allow anyone from Victoria and NSW into the state until the virus is long gone. Anyone want to predict COVID will be long gone by December? 

In theory, this hard lockdown should get Victoria in to a state where we are comparable to somewhere like QLD. The question will be whether NSW will get control of their numbers and QLD doesn't have an outbreak from their recent issues.

I'm willing to predict that by the end of September there will be a chance that Tassie will think about opening up to the east coast states. I am however not discounting the possibility that somewhere there will be a lockdown for Xmas 

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Hoppy, if you think that what you are doing in Victoria at the moment is going to stop you Mexicans being a pariah at the end of six weeks you are kidding yourself.

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On 8/3/2020 at 1:11 PM, Bill E Goat said:

They will run it with a quarantine area in Hobart with all crew having to return on the boat.  They will setup a bar, provisioning area and off you go and no stopping and setting foot on the land on the way

So you're suggesting crews wont just do the fun bit of the race and have to help with the delivery home too?

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1 hour ago, Swanno said:

So you're suggesting crews wont just do the fun bit of the race and have to help with the delivery home too?

:D:D:P:P..........................................................Cough! ...... Sorry Skip did you think I was.................................??

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2 hours ago, Frogman56 said:

Can someone draw the cyca attention to the autopilot issues, as per Jack?

Do you seriously think they would give a rats rectum about Jacks views? There are no doubt pressures being brought to bear on them by highly influential (read: moneyed) anti AP individuals that could turn coal in to diamonds.

Probably aint gonna be a Hobart this year anyway so they will have a year longer to ignore common sense and the rest of the enlightened sailing world.

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15 hours ago, Frogman56 said:

Can someone draw the cyca attention to the autopilot issues, as per Jack?

13 hours ago, SPORTSCAR said:

Do you seriously think they would give a rats rectum about Jacks views? There are no doubt pressures being brought to bear on them by highly influential (read: moneyed) anti AP individuals that could turn coal in to diamonds.

 

13 hours ago, Frogman56 said:

Indeed..

But resistance to the 'anti ap' snowjob has to commence somewhere.

 

If you don't bitch you then can't complain about the consequences. 

It was submissions about 2018 S2H AISGate that saw application of the rule change.

Interestingly even then some RC's didn't get the message.

From this thread and an identical RC AIS protest in last weekend's Brisbane to Keppel. Interestingly same boat in a harbour give way protest in last year's S2H, where they questioned about being penalised and pushed off the podium. Richo has set up a protest trend with this lot from QLD. :lol:

____________________________________

18 months after 2018 S2H and AISGate...a sycophantic RC, a "dead cat" protest, a end of race competitor declaration not mentioned ..... and it seems still not a lesson learnt.

IMG_20200804_201041.jpg

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46 minutes ago, trt131 said:

What does Facts Found 3 have to do with anything?  Isn't this about collision avoidance with shipping.

You mean that as the race passes through the approaches of the 4th and 5th business ports in Australia and Gladstone alone has over 150 shipping movements a month with about 20 ships anchored in the approaches, that AIS might be useful to these large commercial ships when the target is going through at close to 20 knots.

 

The justification for AS to mandate compulsory operation of AIS just went out the window.

Seamanship is so old fashioned in yacht racing

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2 hours ago, trt131 said:

What does Facts Found 3 have to do with anything?  Isn't this about collision avoidance with shipping.

Yes that maybe. Maybe this protest was conducted so it can be used in a new AS course for RO/RC's on "How Not to Conduct Protests." It seems to tick most boxes.

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5 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

To be fair to Envy, the RC using Marine Traffic website smacks of incompetence by the RC. 

Nonsense. Try reading. Facts Found #1. It wasn't the RC monitoring Marine Traffic it was Envy herself and prior to the start, who reported it. Question is why didn't Envy check with other competitors, when in TX/RX distance? If she did that would be in facts found as replicating content of their race declaration. No mention is made of declaration in facts found.

5 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

 MT is not a reliable source for AIS.

More nonsense. Read the RRS, Offshore Regs, SI's and NOR on rules compliance responsibility and declaration.

Therefore why would RC check compliance, particularly knowing there will be dropouts, with any internet VHF RX based AIS reporting system, exactly as you say. Internet satellite RX based, still prone to drop outs from Class B AIS via masthead mounted antennas.

5 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

They should have checked the AIS on the committee boat and reported to Envy that it was not on.

Ditto and as Committee boat RX/TX distance is only within distance of the start, not race course, so pointless.

There may be RC shortcomings, but what you say certainly wasn't one of them.

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11 hours ago, lydia said:

You mean that as the race passes through the approaches of the 4th and 5th business ports in Australia and Gladstone alone has over 150 shipping movements a month with about 20 ships anchored in the approaches, that AIS might be useful to these large commercial ships when the target is going through at close to 20 knots.

 

The justification for AS to mandate compulsory operation of AIS just went out the window.

Seamanship is so old fashioned in yacht racing

Integrity seems to be taking a bit of a thrashing too.  

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15 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

They should have checked the AIS on the committee boat and reported to Envy that it was not on.

Would that then constitute outside assistance and open up a whole new can of worms?

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Back on topic.

Change happens but isn't always immediate.

IMS stayed premier for 1 or 2 years too long. Yendys and Beau Geste were 1 year wonders but won the Tattersalls so paid their way.

Canters and powered winches came in pretty fast but that helped the big money campaigns so not really a surprise. I agree with David who has written in the past that power tilted the playing field too far. I sail on a powered 55 and we can throw in tacks or gybes at the drop of a hat.

I kind of hoped that with World Sailing recognising autopilots and the Fastnet allowing them that CYCA would include them straight away but was probably being a bit optimistic. I think it will come, but not until a few more influential people offload their current boats.

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On 8/4/2020 at 5:27 PM, SPORTSCAR said:

Do you seriously think they would give a rats rectum about Jacks views? There are no doubt pressures being brought to bear on them by highly influential (read: moneyed) anti AP individuals that could turn coal in to diamonds.

Probably aint gonna be a Hobart this year anyway so they will have a year longer to ignore common sense and the rest of the enlightened sailing world.

Its all about the CYCA TP52 owners and their influence on the CYCA Sydney Hobart race management. As long as IRC is the rating rule for the Tattersails cup, the TP52's with their unbeatable rating are hard to beat. But if  the smaller new generation of two handed  boats come along, ie the SF3300 they are feel they are threatened!

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22 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

They should have checked the AIS on the committee boat and reported to Envy that it was not on.

6 hours ago, Jason AUS said:

Would that then constitute outside assistance and open up a whole new can of worms?

 

Jas no as they can do the same and check AIS TX/RX with another competitor on the race track without penalty as it is regarded as maintaining adherence to a safety rule. In fact it should be encouraged.

Think of losing your life-raft overboard from not checking it's lashings and other competitor seeing it floating by with yacht name BUT you both not broadcasting then communicating over that in fear of external assistance rule. If RC were to protest that communication they would be looking for a new job by sunset.

Of more interest is starting knowing you have an issue with a mandated piece of safety equipment. For instance do you still start racing (and be allowed to start and continue racing if RC also aware of it) after finding out say your life-raft became damaged enroute to the start, knowing that maybe, maybe not, you are able to repair it and it staying repaired for the duration of the race? :ph34r:

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4 hours ago, Chucky said:

Its all about the CYCA TP52 owners and their influence on the CYCA Sydney Hobart race management. As long as IRC is the rating rule for the Tattersails cup, the TP52's with their unbeatable rating are hard to beat. But if  the smaller new generation of two handed  boats come along, ie the SF3300 they are feel they are threatened!

It's certainly the case that the group of top race boat owners have sway at the CYCA - as was always the case, pre-IRC it was the IMS owners and prior to that the IOR Owners.  Not sure that's necessarily a bad thing.  Right now TP52s are well treated under IRC, but that may not always be the case.  Important to note that the TP52 isn't necessarily as dominant under IRC in other waters - if more of those European IRC specials were playing in these waters they would likely figure in the big results. 

And, some of the same owners would possibly be in on the game. 

 

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21 hours ago, Frogman56 said:

Chucky,

How do you rate the JPK 10.3 for comparison?

Nice boat which appears to be similar to the SF3300.

I like the fit out below decks as looks practical compared to the SF3300.
If there were a number of JPKs the hobart fleet I am sure they would be a chance of an overall IRC win If the weather conditions were kind.

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Start here.......

image.png.8168275cfd7bf954b2aee97b59a05b4a.png

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2 hours ago, Chapter Four said:

I hear talk of a 2 handed multi division....:ph34r:

I used to be against the CYCA's conservative stance and was supportive of opening up the race to multis. However this incident south of Sydney last year shows that the CYCA is correct to not allow multis. Multi idiots need to be protected from their own stupidity.

 

I heard that the owner changed the bow profile, perhaps in the hope of reducing the problem that caused them to flip. Just sounds like putting lipstick on a pig.

 

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7 hours ago, PIL66 - XL2 said:

I'm bored...... can we bring back the biff here...?      let's get controversial 

Mate rainy weekend...sick of "jumping the shark" over race rules, want to relive AISGate 2018 ...well there is this "burley bomb" thrown in water down the hallway that might attract some bites..maybe a fight..maybe have a nibble yourself? :lol:

Somewhere North of 27.6° South - Ten Questions - "Safety Equipment & RC Protests"

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3 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

I used to be against the CYCA's conservative stance and was supportive of opening up the race to multis. However this incident south of Sydney last year shows that the CYCA is correct to not allow multis. Multi idiots need to be protected from their own stupidity.

 

I heard that the owner changed the bow profile, perhaps in the hope of reducing the problem that caused them to flip. Just sounds like putting lipstick on a pig.

 

BOOM, game on, i'll get some popcorn.

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On 8/4/2020 at 11:35 AM, jack_sparrow said:

Firstly routing software doesn't drive AP.

This is not entirely true. There are bespoke AP systems around that can be linked up to routing software, but that approach is more typically used to maximise VMG based on polars rather than following a route generated from a weather forecast...

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On 8/4/2020 at 11:35 AM, jack_sparrow said:

Firstly routing software doesn't drive AP.

38 minutes ago, OldWoodenShip said:

This is not entirely true.There are bespoke AP systems around that can be linked up to routing software,...

 

"This is not entirely true.."

I'm sorry it is entirely true. No such bespoke AP/routing system exists or ever will exist for a race boat, where AP is trying to replicate or better the performance of a human driver.

38 minutes ago, OldWoodenShip said:

...but that approach is more typically used to maximise VMG based on polars rather than following a route generated from a weather forecast...

What you have described there is routing software in its "entirety," less the human component, not two alternatives to drive a AP. You haven't described at all how a AP operates, only what the operator will "consider" to set it up.

AP's are driven by ONLY two things on a race boat, real time true wind (converted from apparent) and sea state, nothing else. If they vary alone or together, the rudder angle, response rate and course will vary. Having said that a fixed course in some conditions may provide a faster/optimum SOG/COG, but very rarely plus necessitates more trimming, which defeats the purpose of having a AP.

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2 minutes ago, OldWoodenShip said:

How about helm load?

Helm load is not a "external condition," but a "resultant" of AP set up responding to those two "external conditions."

On 8/4/2020 at 11:35 AM, jack_sparrow said:

There are only two external conditions wind and sea state that drive an AP.

 

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For the 2020 race, set a rectangular way point race. 15 miles out, turn right 300 down, turn right 15 miles in, turn right 300 miles back up to Sydney.

The Oatley Trophy for line honours, the Halvorson trophy for overall. Have the presentations on the Opera house steps, for distancing.

Channel 7 have to have a large silver boat doing something.

Sadly I don't think anything can be done for the small traders of Hobart/Tasmania. 

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Sydney, around Tasmania (either direction is allowed) and back to Sydney 

Might not be finished by New Year and possibly too far for the maxis (they would need to have a watch system. Do they even have bunks?)

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