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2 hours ago, Mid said:

err , isn't something missing ?

Quite a lot of things are missing yes, most recently my lucky set of Allen keys

which missing thing are you referring to? Can you help me find it?

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She floats and the engine runs! Was a long day transiting the Westerschelde and then navigating the canals across the island of Walcheren 

Not sure why this feels like such a monumental moment. Its just some white 545 that's gone on and now it feels totally transformed.  Really looking forward to seeing the glossy coat go on now. On

Splashing tomorrow. Missed the end of November launch window but only being a week late seems pretty good considering how this entire project has gone. The boat will get weighed on the same potat

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Getting a few bits of running rigging on deck. Not the most critical but its an easy one to check off and gives some much needed instant gratification. I also changed out the throttle control cables as the old ones were super sticky. The lever motion is much smoother and controlled now.

And yeah the deck was filthy with everyone walking around but gave a good scrub on my way out and she's looking much sharper again. 

 

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I've got a little electric oil heater and the dehumidifier going on inside now. Will start getting into dusty work soon inside so trying to get it somewhat into reasonable working condition first.

I'm talking now with the local marine electrician to come help sort out the new 12v system as well as look at the shorepower/battery charging setup. I thing we are just going to remove it all completely and start from the ground up with new wiring. At this point we might as well not cut any corners. 

 

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5 hours ago, IanA. said:

I've got a little electric oil heater and the dehumidifier going on inside now. Will start getting into dusty work soon inside so trying to get it somewhat into reasonable working condition first.

I'm talking now with the local marine electrician to come help sort out the new 12v system as well as look at the shorepower/battery charging setup. I thing we are just going to remove it all completely and start from the ground up with new wiring. At this point we might as well not cut any corners. 

 

90E40A8A-DF22-440A-A515-509A1E06F4B8.thumb.jpg.8925cf44aa1f2a1e9bb273a7699d9a11.jpg

49A050BE-9C02-40DE-A22A-5DF04C5FC904.thumb.jpg.f84c9224fc3cf329e3e99b448a0333c4.jpg

Can you tell us about that tiller shape?  It's pretty funky.  So it sticks straight up when under way? (I mean the shorter forward part not the whole thing)

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2 hours ago, WCB said:

Can you tell us about that tiller shape?  It's pretty funky.  So it sticks straight up when under way? (I mean the shorter forward part not the whole thing)

I think this is for mounting the tiller extension which you want to have rather horizontal. The flat tiller seems to be less of an obstacle.

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4 minutes ago, neuronz said:

I think this is for mounting the tiller extension which you want to have rather horizontal. The flat tiller seems to be less of an obstacle.

Not sure that I follow you on that. The tiller is clearly picked up and the main part would be relatively parallel to the deck but the the L bend for the end of it is interesting.

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1 minute ago, WCB said:

Not sure that I follow you on that. The tiller is clearly picked up and the main part would be relatively parallel to the deck but the the L bend for the end of it is interesting.

Yes, the main part is flat above the deck, which makes it easier to step over. However, this would mean your tiller extension would go down at a funky angle from your hand to the end of the tiller. The vertical bit helps with that.

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1 minute ago, neuronz said:

Yes, the main part is flat above the deck, which makes it easier to step over. However, this would mean your tiller extension would go down at a funky angle from your hand to the end of the tiller. The vertical bit helps with that.

I see...thanks, makes sense

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30 minutes ago, WCB said:

I see...thanks, makes sense

I think you guys figured it out already.
 

it gives so much more room for “activities” 

 

I could have made the vertical part a bit shorter but it’s always easier to remove than add. You should try it sometime. It’s easy to build since you just take two sort of existing straight things and stick them together. My one will probably break when someone (most likely our bow guy) face-plants into it during a boom tent party; It should survive “normal” usage though.

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Some 80kg foam bits stuck together, shaped and then some uni and twill to hold it all together. Really low level composites here, even for me. Didn’t even bag it! I think my heart wasn’t fully in it at the time. If I really end up liking this setup I might try and take a mould of it and do something a bit more fancy..

 

 

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13 hours ago, IanA. said:

90E40A8A-DF22-440A-A515-509A1E06F4B8.thumb.jpg.8925cf44aa1f2a1e9bb273a7699d9a11.jpg

Apologies if it was discussed upthread but what was the logic for fabbing that central stanchion on the stern? Is it beamy enough to require an intermediate one under offshore special regs? Do you reckon it's worth it for an improvement in compass / GPS / roll accuracy out of the ZG100?

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7 hours ago, IanA. said:

I think you guys figured it out already.
 

it gives so much more room for “activities” 

 

I could have made the vertical part a bit shorter but it’s always easier to remove than add. You should try it sometime. It’s easy to build since you just take two sort of existing straight things and stick them together. My one will probably break when someone (most likely our bow guy) face-plants into it during a boom tent party; It should survive “normal” usage though.

Boom tent parties be crazy...

Cockpit_Party.jpg

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7 hours ago, IanA. said:

Some 80kg foam bits stuck together, shaped and then some uni and twill to hold it all together. Really low level composites here, even for me. Didn’t even bag it! I think my heart wasn’t fully in it at the time. If I really end up liking this setup I might try and take a mould of it and do something a bit more fancy..

 

 

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I'm sure your version of low level is higher than most of ours

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10 hours ago, JonRowe said:

Whats your emergency setup if you snap it in a strong downwinder? (bowman or natural) :lol:

Well I'm sort of assuming it shouldn't break while sailing like I guess most people do with their own tillers. I've never carried just carried a spare before. For some of the offshore races we would someday like to do, we might have to slap together a stern hung emergency rudder but that is some ways off...

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7 hours ago, Snowden said:

Apologies if it was discussed upthread but what was the logic for fabbing that central stanchion on the stern? Is it beamy enough to require an intermediate one under offshore special regs? Do you reckon it's worth it for an improvement in compass / GPS / roll accuracy out of the ZG100?

To be honest I didn't look at any rules or regs when deciding this. Partly I wanted to give a bit space on the deck aft of the traveller as the way the stern is not flat and the pushpits are a bit forward of the actual end of the boat. It makes it easier to take a wee off the back without spraying the transom ideally.

As far as the antennas, that was a bit more secondary but offered a place to get the VHF out of the rig and save some weight aloft. I'm not really sure if the gps antennas will be better in that location but I don't think it will be bad to have them up and out of the boat and nearly on CL.

Lastly it gives a decent spot to mount the sternlight as well as hang flag. Around these parts you are expected to display the Dutch flag(if you're dutch registered) while out sailing. Likewise if you're Belgian, German, French, etc.. you must identify who you are fairly visibly. 

 

The whole thing doesn't weigh very much which was part of what helped me decide this route. Like most things with this boat project so far, it seemed like a good idea at the time so we just went for it. 

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31 minutes ago, IanA. said:

Well I'm sort of assuming it shouldn't break while sailing like I guess most people do with their own tillers. I've never carried just carried a spare before. For some of the offshore races we would someday like to do, we might have to slap together a stern hung emergency rudder but that is some ways off...

I always liked this quote:

''Any idiot can build a bridge that stands, but it takes an engineer to build a bridge that barely stands''

I'm definitely nothing close to an engineer (that's why I have friends who are) but I do try to apply certain key principles for the sake of performance gains via weight loss in key aras.

I could build it to withstand our 0.12metric ton south african bow guy taking a dive in the cockpit but its lighter and cheaper to just keep him out of the mount gay bottle. 

 

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Ian, she looks fantastic! Please keep us posted on the deck paint, as those little 2k cans are attractive for many reasons.

The deck hardware looks really well thought out. Specifically, can I (or we) get some more detail on that bracket for the Harken 150 to STB of the companionway. 
 

Looking forward to seeing the interior/electrical.

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37 minutes ago, Will1073 said:

Ian, she looks fantastic! Please keep us posted on the deck paint, as those little 2k cans are attractive for many reasons.

The deck hardware looks really well thought out. Specifically, can I (or we) get some more detail on that bracket for the Harken 150 to STB of the companionway. 
 

Looking forward to seeing the interior/electrical.

If you're talking about the L bracket for the Harken cleats to run the traveler, they're popular on Melges 24s and J70s. https://store.sail22.com/melges-24/accessories/melges-24-traveler-bracket-with-block/ 

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10 hours ago, WCB said:

If you're talking about the L bracket for the Harken cleats to run the traveler, they're popular on Melges 24s and J70s. https://store.sail22.com/melges-24/accessories/melges-24-traveler-bracket-with-block/ 

Ah shit you can buy these things already made? Those we so miserable to make in carbon that I didn't even document it. I had to use some IM an HM scraps to try stiffen the bracket as the first version was to flexi.

These sail22 ones look like some chopped right angle alloy with hand detailing. Pretty impressive to only be 100$ if its including the 2 cleats, thru-deck sheave, plus the bracket, anodizing, assembly, etc.. What are their overheads? 

 

image.png.0c390902ce279d6f638c1f9f521f8756.png

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11 hours ago, Will1073 said:

Ian, she looks fantastic! Please keep us posted on the deck paint, as those little 2k cans are attractive for many reasons.

The deck hardware looks really well thought out. Specifically, can I (or we) get some more detail on that bracket for the Harken 150 to STB of the companionway. 
 

Looking forward to seeing the interior/electrical.

 

I think you are referring to the pole out cleat and bracket. This is actually a standard M24 mast mounted spinnaker halyard cleat bracket that's been kicking around my toolbox for years. A bit overkill in this application but was happy with one less thing to have to make myself. 

 

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The 2 part spray can paint seems to be holding up super well so far. Especially considering the abuse during all the hardware mounting. It feels much harder then the Awlgrip used on the hull. It feels almost more like a gelcoat then paint. I'm not sure what the benefits are of having a harder vs. soft paint but it seems more durable so far.

The cans said it was a Urethane based paint and not Poly-urethane so I was expecting it to be softer the awlgrip and more like awlcraft. Its totally in the other direction. I test polished and wax a few spots and it really glossed out nicely so maybe in the spring time I will bring the buffing wheel down and add some more shine.

 

 

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Just found this

https://www.racing-yachts.com/rocket-31-410.html

Really loving seeing the design your putting into your rebuild...some impressive thinking before doing...then the making  clean tidy and organised...looks like your enjoying the process....thanks for posting about the work , in giving a special boat a new life   

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On 12/16/2021 at 8:36 AM, IanA. said:

To be honest I didn't look at any rules or regs when deciding this. Partly I wanted to give a bit space on the deck aft of the traveller as the way the stern is not flat and the pushpits are a bit forward of the actual end of the boat. It makes it easier to take a wee off the back without spraying the transom ideally.

As far as the antennas, that was a bit more secondary but offered a place to get the VHF out of the rig and save some weight aloft. I'm not really sure if the gps antennas will be better in that location but I don't think it will be bad to have them up and out of the boat and nearly on CL.

Lastly it gives a decent spot to mount the sternlight as well as hang flag.

Cheers, it looks cool too! I hadn't noticed you had the VHF on there as well. I guess you'll lose a bit of range but as you say the weight saving of the antenna plus probably more importantly the cable is pretty significant.

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11 hours ago, IanA. said:

Ah shit you can buy these things already made? Those we so miserable to make in carbon that I didn't even document it. I had to use some IM an HM scraps to try stiffen the bracket as the first version was to flexi.

These sail22 ones look like some chopped right angle alloy with hand detailing. Pretty impressive to only be 100$ if its including the 2 cleats, thru-deck sheave, plus the bracket, anodizing, assembly, etc.. What are their overheads? 

 

image.png.0c390902ce279d6f638c1f9f521f8756.png

$100 includes a pair of black anodized right angle and the Harken thru decks. The Harken 150s are not included. Melges offers a fancier version too with a really nice setup at four times the price. 

https://shop.melges.com/product/melges-24/hull-melges-24/melges-24-hutchinson-sport-traveler-jockey-set/ 

I bought a new set of the Sail22 version to put on my J22 to copy the Melges 24 setup.

 

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managed to sneak out of the house for half an hour to put on the runner fine tune control line as well as some bungees for the runner block and spin sheet block to keep them off the deck.

 

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Jib sheet up/down control finally measured and spliced to the right length. Also got a cover on the tiller.  Not that we have much UV to speak of recently but looks a bit more tidy.

 

It’s really nice having the boat close to home finally and to be able to tick away at things more efficiently. Feeling slightly more confident we could actually sail properly next year  

 

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On 12/19/2021 at 4:51 AM, Irrational 14 said:

Looking good. No foot chocks for the helmsperson?

I made these guys up in some left over thin wall Ti tubing which I just haven't installed yet. Pretty sure they will be necessary though for how wide the cockpit is. This hull shape is more suited to sailing flat then heeled like more modern offshore boats these days but still good to have something keeping you in position.

This is actually an older picture. I've already rigged them up with the adjusting hardware and control line ready to go. I used some left over skateboard grip tape on the horizontal part. It weighs hardly nothing and is super stiff.

Jury is still out on the tiller extension universals in this application as they seem quite stiff and it wants to stand the foots rest up vertically. Maybe that will turn out to be a benefit.... or not. 

 

IMG_5832.thumb.jpg.0d0291f587260227ce4e80b149d44282.jpg

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On 12/17/2021 at 8:09 PM, WCB said:

$100 includes a pair of black anodized right angle and the Harken thru decks. The Harken 150s are not included. Melges offers a fancier version too with a really nice setup at four times the price. 

https://shop.melges.com/product/melges-24/hull-melges-24/melges-24-hutchinson-sport-traveler-jockey-set/ 

I bought a new set of the Sail22 version to put on my J22 to copy the Melges 24 setup.

 

Okay that makes a lot more sense. And of course anything from Hutch isn't going to be low cost. But its nice stuff. 

For all the hassle maing these things, it is worth being able to cleat the new weather side of the traveller before the boom crosses CL. 

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On 12/17/2021 at 4:19 PM, Snowden said:

Cheers, it looks cool too! I hadn't noticed you had the VHF on there as well. I guess you'll lose a bit of range but as you say the weight saving of the antenna plus probably more importantly the cable is pretty significant.

Yeah the height thing on the VHF antenna had me re-considering but the range at that height is still pretty good and I've never really had to call anyone on the VHF that I couldn't see nearby(or foggy but still within the horizon). I think mostly it will be used for racing purposes like dealing with the R/C as well as transmitting our AIS signal.

When we went cruising in the fall on my in-laws boat, we just ended up using the handheld for any comms with VTS or other ships without issue. So I am a bit less concerned now. 

 

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On 12/17/2021 at 12:00 PM, huey 2 said:

Just found this

https://www.racing-yachts.com/rocket-31-410.html

Really loving seeing the design your putting into your rebuild...some impressive thinking before doing...then the making  clean tidy and organised...looks like your enjoying the process....thanks for posting about the work , in giving a special boat a new life   

Its funny those old pictures are still online there. I haven't looked back yet on the old photos since we got started on all this so its a bit shocking to be reminded of what we bought. 

It's weird to look back at the differences now. She was in a rough way. You sort of lose track of where it all started and its amazing we saw through all those issues at the time. Probably quite foolish of us but the outcome is starting to make up for the pain.

I have to say I am super happy with the color scheme we chose for in the end. The boat is already interesting to look at and doesn't need a loud color to distract from her natural beauty. 

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8 hours ago, IanA. said:

Okay that makes a lot more sense. And of course anything from Hutch isn't going to be low cost. But its nice stuff. 

For all the hassle maing these things, it is worth being able to cleat the new weather side of the traveller before the boom crosses CL. 

That's the main fail that I have on the Melges 24 when I tack. I haven't gotten the rhythm down for cleating the leeward/new windward side as we go into the tack. I have spent a little time visualizing the tacks in order to get smoother at this as I'm breaking the snake's back coming out of some tacks as I mess with the traveler.

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On 12/21/2021 at 2:21 AM, SailAR said:

How much lighter was she at launch?

This is a very touchy subject in our household currently so thanks for bringing it up...

 

In all seriousness, there was a big fuck up by the shed guys. The weighing was meant to happen the morning of launching while the boat was being moved from the shed to the harbour. There's a CO-OP potato processing plant on the way with super accurate floor scale for the trucks. The farmers are paid by the kg. so its nothing basic.

Anyways after the boat was lifted off the cradle I was asking why the havent left back yet for the scale to get the weight delta of th cradle and tractor.

So yeah they completely forgot and weren't keen to lift the boat out and go back. Also we had a tide window to make so it wasn't going to happen at that point.

I'm super annoyed, I really wanted to know what we're working with. There is a small yard nearby here with a single point crane and slings but they don't have a calibrated scale. I know someone who does have a 12 ton calibrated scale so i'm just trying to figure out how to make that all come together.

 

Will keep you posted...........

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On 12/20/2021 at 11:29 PM, Jono said:

Congrats.

How is the bow knuckle looking above water pre rig and sails?

 

If you look at the reflection in the icy water you can see the knuckle overhang and the height of the painted water-line above the floating water-line. And that's with my 85kgs. up there in the first photo. 

The bow is a bit higher then the stern currently but that is sort of accounted for since the rig isn't in yet. In theory it should all be parallel in racing trim.

 

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Speaking of icy water, first proper freeze of the winter. Found it interesting to see the kerf lines from the deck core transfer through to the snow like that. The little heater inside is keeping things reasonable and the resin linking the 2 skins is transfer just enough heat to melt along the lines slightly.

At least the kiwi grip wasn't half bad keeping me on deck while walking around.  

 

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And so it begins. The interior portion had started. Made a bucket load of dust today and getting things smoothed out. It all looks horrible and messy, some white 545 will add some charm back pretty quickly. Have a few more days of knuckling down with the various sanding equipment and then I should be able to move on to the fun parts again like gluing and installing stuff.

 

I also removed the companionway steps to make a bit more space for sanding. I always assumed it was just thin hollow steel tubing. I told myself we wouldn't replace these just yet since it shouldn't be super heavy, they are low down near the engine and there was already so much to do on the rest of the boat.

Well turns out its nearly solid steel and heavy as shit, it weighs more than our anchor. We cannot accept putting it back in the boat.

So one more thing added to the list. And dammit i'm out of rubber gloves..

 

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On 12/28/2021 at 4:11 PM, IanA. said:

Well turns out its nearly solid steel and heavy as shit, it weighs more than our anchor.

Never have two tools when you could use one for two jobs? Declare the steps as anchor and save having an extra one :D

You look to have made a lot of progress sanding, what kind of gear are you using? I just finished removing rubbery crap used to glue liner to the ceiling and even for a small spot it was a pain to do.(different from what you have, but sine I may redo the floor sometime as well...)

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19 hours ago, allweather said:

Never have two tools when you could use one for two jobs? Declare the steps as anchor and save having an extra one :D

You look to have made a lot of progress sanding, what kind of gear are you using? I just finished removing rubbery crap used to glue liner to the ceiling and even for a small spot it was a pain to do.(different from what you have, but sine I may redo the floor sometime as well...)

Not sure how rubbery your stuff is, maybe try scraping first. Might gum up your paper especially as it heats up. Or also consider chemical striping as much as you can first. 

 

For me the Rupes is my go to for material removal. I have an older version than this one but they are powerful as hell and will shake your teeth out. You really have to handle one to understand how crazy powerful these things are. The pad size is perfect for fairing both flats and curves. 

Overhead work with it will punish your upper body somewhat but still prefer it then my Makita R/O because of the time saved. This sander changed my life.

image.png.eb5d2cbcd33f04a3fbdabc96839d2af3.png

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I started with with 545 as a base in all the high traffic areas and then going with the Signma S2U Nova primer and Satin top coat. The 545 probably isn't necessary but I have a bunch still in stock so might as well use it. I really like the Sigma primer so far, rolls out super well and has impressive coverage. Its expensive for house paint but cheap for marine paint. Time will tell. 

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I've got the new 12v switches and a few other bits ordered finally so its time to sort out the new nav panel. It was just a solid piece of plywood before which meant you had to remove the DC panel to get inside which was annoying. I cut it all out and replacing with a lighter carbon/foam panel with plastic hinges so its easy to get behind. 

I used a flat acetal plate and some car batteries on-top to get some downward force. It didn't seem necessary to waste bagging material on this. It fact its basically built entirely from my scrap pile.

Was a bit chilly in the garage since I moved my good heater to the boat so I did the final curing stage in front of the fire. 

 

 

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Also got started on covering these storage lockers next to the keel. These originally had 25mm mairne ply with stainless hardware that was heavy and clunky. We also noticed while sailing that any water coming in through the hatch above would end up in these lockers since the weren't watertight.

So we are closing up the lockers properly and then adding in these watertight hatches. I've still got a bit of cutting and fitting to do before lamination but I think this will be a nice solution.

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Me taking notes... I do need to figure out how to seal my cockpit lockers that are notoriously wet and this looks like some good ideas.(once I get up the motivation to redo everything...)

About bagging, for small,especially flatter, parts I've started using zippable "cloth bags" usually used to debulk and store winter bedding or the like. Neat in so far that I don't have to mess with tape and can simply shove the entire work plate, piece and associated material into the bag before applying vacuum.

Anyway, really nice to see the kind of progress you're making and an easy insight in the methods of someone actually knowing what they're doing.

That sander looks excellent! Costs as much as one would expect too... Proper tools always do.
Well, I can postpone that purchase some time since I finished that work for now with some turpentine which did a passable job together with scrubbing by hand. That and then using one of those brass wheels to take of the rest after the turpentine made it a lot less sticky.

Pretty sure another solvent would have been better, but hell if I had known the right one and this way I was done after a day and a half of scrubbing. So glad for the full face mask and right filters though, I can't handle solvents at all and below deck the fumes are just horrible.

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Takes notes as you wish but by no means believe what I say or do is actually the best thing for you. I'm constantly tip-toeing between best practices and minimizing costs/time when tackling each job. There are a few areas where I could have achieved a higher level with either more time or funds poured in.

Finding the line of what's going to be good enough while keeping in mind the big picture of 'deadlines and budget' is really more of an artform than it seems. 

 

Having said all that, the most important thing to do is to clearly and simply as possible define your main goals and objectives. You need to know what you're willing to shoot for in order to layout the plan that best suites your ambitions. It maybe sounds silly but you can apply this to the smallest jobs to help with planning out your steps. 

 

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That's perfectly fine, rare that anything gets ported without adjustments. And there is the fact that I tend towards a somewhat lower level for less work and most importantly somewhat less expense.

More like arcane craft when I'm looking at putting the boat into the water in two and a half to three and a half months and still so much to do...

Thanks for the tip in regards to planning. I already do it for some things, but you're right that I would have had an easier time for a number of items if I wrote down everything before I was at the boat. Frequently a week away and when I arrive I realize I need another tool for a minor job...

Honestly, if I didn't write everything into a list during summer and start planning before autumn I wouldn't know how to finish everything.

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The panels for the new watertight hatches were laminated and then the opening cut out. Will glue in place with trusty pro-set adv175 and then tab in underneath only light biax tape. Top will just get faired to blend into the rest of the top keel structure.

Then I can get on with primer/painting here... It sure will look a lot beter then it does now.

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Some more primer finally showed up so I was able to finish of the "main saloon/ galley area". It was a pian getting into all the little cubbies but much nicer to have it in white then dark gray in these already dark corners of the boat.

Managed to get the hatch cutouts bonded in as well. Admittingly looks a bit sloppy in the picture but there's a bit of unevenness between the new and old surfaces which the glue is helping to fill around the edges. THe whole thing will get faired in and flattened out. 

 

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I'm also thinking about the engine box... Its quite heavy, built in solid plywood and its too big to fit out of the main hatch(which I can't figure out how/why they built this inside the boat).

Eyeballing it all makes me think its way oversize for what it really needs to be. I've got enough materials kicking around to make something much lighter but i realize its a rabbit hole as i'm probably going to want to change the engine compartment around as well...

On the other hand, its another place I can probably shave out some weight and its better to make a mess now while its already a big mess in here..

 

 

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Started on templating the new companionway steps. We're able to re-purpose the foam cutouts from the watertight hatches around the keel box which is nice. And these are already doubled up in thickness which I want in this case.

I still haven't thought out how I want to cut the bevel for the angled side bits. I don't want to give up much more material on the width as i'm already at the minimum for what feels safe coming in and out. 

I'll pre laminate the steps once the shape is set. Then tack the whole thing together with some fast methacrylate  to get all the angles/positions right. Then proper coving and tapes all around. Oh and not to forget, some gussets underneath the steps in various directions. 

 

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Some of the 12V gear has arrived and just figuring out the best placement. I haven't sorted the battery monitor yet as I want the advice from our electrician who is hopefully finishing soon in the rorc transat. Its still not decided if we want to change around the whole battery system including the charger as well...

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On 12/6/2021 at 8:22 PM, IanA. said:

 

 

 

 

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Any chance of a close up if that tiller design. Im

looking at replacing mine on Excalibur a Young 88.

 

And what’s the hatch for? 
 

BTW after sailing recently on a Rocket she looks amazing. I love the low transom and wide deck. 

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Something like this... Was a bit tricky getting the angle right with the hole saw. For the angled up side pieces I just ran the circular saw 3/4's of the way through and then used a heat gun and a jig to get the bend formed. It actually worked pretty easily. I will fill the open wedges with something and then start laminating. 

Im still working out the best gusset layout, I have a few ideas still chewing over.

 

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13 hours ago, Y88 said:

Any chance of a close up if that tiller design. Im

looking at replacing mine on Excalibur a Young 88.

 

And what’s the hatch for? 
 

BTW after sailing recently on a Rocket she looks amazing. I love the low transom and wide deck. 

 

I don't have a specific design for the tiller. I was just going with the flow really. The main structure is just HD rohacell scraps pieced together to get the basic shape. Then just sanded the whole thing down to a shape that seemed right. 

The structure for the tiller head is just a box I built using 3mm C-plate. I just tabbed it together at first and then bonded onto the foam overlapping about 300mm ish.

Then just start with 1 layer of 300g uni along the entire length and up the vertical bit. Then wrapped it in some 260g carbon twill. I think I did a few small wraps around the 90 deg bend just for a bit of extra safety as that's definitely the weak link in this whole thing. 

For the bolt in the top for the rubber tiller extension mount, I just wozzled out some foam and then sunk the M8 hex head in with rubber toughened pro-set.

Then just a bunch of fairing and paint until you run out of time and the boat is launching and you're panicking about everything you forgot you needed.. 

 

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5 hours ago, IanA. said:

Something like this... Was a bit tricky getting the angle right with the hole saw. For the angled up side pieces I just ran the circular saw 3/4's of the way through and then used a heat gun and a jig to get the bend formed. It actually worked pretty easily. I will fill the open wedges with something and then start laminating. 

Im still working out the best gusset layout, I have a few ideas still chewing over.

 

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That should be significantly lighter...great looking work so far.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Have had a bit on but managing to squeeze in some boat work here and there. The steps actually already have laminate on the top side so they are further along then these photos show. I used fast cure methacrylate to stick the gussets on in the right spot and then coved in properly with pro-set adv 175.

 

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Less exciting but super critical has been cutting out as much unneeded weight around the engine box. I also took circular saw to the old heavy box to get it out the hatch and off the boat. The new box will be a lot smaller and built in 12mm foam and glass. 

I cut out a piece of the vertical section that supports the cockpit floor as not all of that material is needed.

I've also bee stripping out all the old soggy sound insulation and will replace will some proper stuff i've got on order.

 

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And then just having loads of fun sanding all the painted surfaces. Elbows, neck, shoulders and back are all still hurting but stripping out several coats of old paint getting back to the original primer/ substrate. 

 

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To break up the monotonous drag of over-head power sanding, I did some re-work on the location of the engine controls. For whatever reason they were originally mounted in the compartment next to the keel which meant you had to climb around behind the ladder and open the hatch and then hang upside down to see your RPMs.

Happy to have it in a bit more practical location. 

 

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I want to replace the key turn , and RPMs into the aft of my Y88 how easy is to do that? Did you consider going to a push start? 

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11 hours ago, Y88 said:

I want to replace the key turn , and RPMs into the aft of my Y88 how easy is to do that? Did you consider going to a push start? 

No idea what your setup is so hard to comment on.

I've got a volvo penta 2002b and the control panel seems to be original to the boat.  Also its already a push to start style, no keys.

The wire harness length is almost 3m long and most of it was just coiled up with zip ties. I just made use of the length I had available which is part of why the panel ended up where it did. 

 

 

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After extensive waffling and way to much overthinking, the final rig layout has been stamped for approval and handed over to production to get on with it…

 


So yeah, just sanding up the peel ply finish and then layup the external patching. 


I’ve also sized up the remaining hardware I still need to build or buy for final fit out and was pleasantly surprised to be below expectations.

feeling cautiously optimistic   

 


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  • 1 month later...
On 2/17/2022 at 6:54 PM, jackolantern said:

What was the biggest question with the final layout?

I think most of my vacillations revolved around the halyard layout relative to the sail plan I wanted. This all effects what you can and can't do with where you lead certain halyards or systems which affects your pit layout. I have certain limitations with the side walls of the tube with how many exits I can fit. Anyways, at some point you have to just make a call and go with it. I think I'll be able to live with what I've done

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Back from some Caribbean racing and back to work on the rig. Patching is on and just needs a light sand-up and then can get going on assembly. Spreaders should be starting lamination next week or so and then I pretty much have everything built for the mast. 

 

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How hard is it to make spreaders?  I've been following the rebuild of Mike Plant's Duracell by Matt in Washington state and he found a carbon rig where the spreaders were stolen from it so he'd have to make more.  He mentioned that having them made is crazy expensive and is proposing to make them himself.

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18 hours ago, WCB said:

How hard is it to make spreaders?  I've been following the rebuild of Mike Plant's Duracell by Matt in Washington state and he found a carbon rig where the spreaders were stolen from it so he'd have to make more.  He mentioned that having them made is crazy expensive and is proposing to make them himself.

To be honest it sort of depends what you need to build, what your interface requirements are. Making the main body is simple enough and you can use a male form or female form depending on what you can do in your shop. 

In my case I am using an existing male spreader tool (81mm chord length) and able to use a purpose built spinner to wrap it all up. Spreader length is just under 1.8 meters...

I've got an aluminum internal spreader bar(19.5mm thick) which is swept and bent to achieve the correct spreader angle and tip location. I worked it out that its lighter going with an alloy bar that fits tight internally rather than going with a thinner bar in Ti and having to box it into the IBE of the spreader. Not to mention its more work and time.

 

 

 

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Just a thought I make my spreaders with a foam core   With templates at each end ,sand foam to shape then  0/90 carbon cloth uni carbon and biaxial carbon sock  over . Then either vacuum bag  or wrap with flagging tape or heat shrink tape . You can add a layer of glass cloth for fairing . Amount of uni depends on expected load and how big you make the section vis ave the discussion re spreader angle .

I really like what you are doing to your young rocket. I used to race against Positive Touch in Tauranga NZ many years ago . I even gave them an 18fter daggerboard to use instead of their blunt rudder. Didn’t work for them would not tolerate the high AoA they were sailing . Probably a 63010 section approx .

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Oh you can put a 3 mm strip of plywood +/-45 down the centre of the foam if you are  worried or want to stiffen the foam up for shaping 

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On 3/26/2022 at 4:46 PM, chris foiler said:

Just a thought I make my spreaders with a foam core   With templates at each end ,sand foam to shape then  0/90 carbon cloth uni carbon and biaxial carbon sock  over . Then either vacuum bag  or wrap with flagging tape or heat shrink tape . You can add a layer of glass cloth for fairing . Amount of uni depends on expected load and how big you make the section vis ave the discussion re spreader angle .

I really like what you are doing to your young rocket. I used to race against Positive Touch in Tauranga NZ many years ago . I even gave them an 18fter daggerboard to use instead of their blunt rudder. Didn’t work for them would not tolerate the high AoA they were sailing . Probably a 63010 section approx .

I think it depends on the spreader section shape and size you are building. I know for what I need to build (skinny and long) that trying to mill the internal shape in a good HD core material would be difficult. Trying to get enough bagging pressure/ laminate compaction without crushing would be tough as well, especially on the front and back. Even without an autoclave, just being able to wrap the laminate tighter and de-bulk every off axis layer will achieve better properties. 

In a perfect world I would opt for female moulds and have the 2 halves co-cured in place with an internal bag.

Will try and get some pictures of the tool and setup when it all starts.

 

 

EDIT: sorry just see your second post regarding the ply stiffener which would definitely stabilize the core for working with.   

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Getting on with the interior. Essentially done making dust on the center and aft sections of the boat. After filling and fairing, used 545 white undercoat to help seal up any little pin holes and then went with 1 part Sigma Nova white primer and then 1 part Sigma Nova Satin white top coat. First time using this system and maybe a bit of a gamble but its really nice to work with and happy with the finish. 

For the floor I tried a small section with White Interdeck to see if we like it. I'm a bit mixed at the moment, the grip is fine but it's sharp texture seems to grab dirt and crud a lot faster then the white kiwi grip on deck. It seems not as nice to clean up, when you take a sponge to swipe up some water it pulls fuzz of it that sticks to the non-skid particles. Also the Interdeck white looks a bit yellowish side by side with the Sigma Nova satin finish though the photos don't seem to show it as bad.

 

Engine compartment is nearly done, just need to sort out the box still but I think I finally know what to do with it so stay tuned..

Oh and all the teak trim still needs a light sand up and treatment so don't stress about the random bits of paint that got on. It will look tidy when all said and done.

 

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Bought a pack of the black nylon nut covers to try out and I kind of dig it. Will still hurt like a MF when hit them with my head but at least it shouldn't draw blood.

 

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6 hours ago, IanA. said:

Will still hurt like a MF when hit them with my head but at least it shouldn't draw blood.

Not going to lie, I thought before to just cover all the nuts with foam(maybe springy type) for exactly that reason. We have far fewer though...

I really like how bright the interior is coming out now. Nice and worth the work!(especially as I didn't have to do the sanding to look at it!)

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20 hours ago, allweather said:

Not going to lie, I thought before to just cover all the nuts with foam(maybe springy type) for exactly that reason. We have far fewer though...

I really like how bright the interior is coming out now. Nice and worth the work!(especially as I didn't have to do the sanding to look at it!)

Thanks! its been a ball-ache with all the sanding and little details but satisfying when you get some top coat on. For sure right now getting the mast done and stepped is the biggest priority now that the main salon area is done being painted. The forepeak and head area still needs to see a lot of dust created but I should be able to wall off the main bulkhead to keep the dust out of the rest of the boat. 

Regarding the plastic nut covers. I thought it might look a bit tacky but actually gives a slightly more professional feel then I expected. Also going with contrasting in black was a gamble but I think I prefer it to white. The mast will be clear carbon finished below deck so there might be some color theme going on there. Misses and I going back and forth on the new cushion material, we have about ten sample pieces on the fridge we argue about. Will give up soon and let her make the final choice since she probably has better taste then me..

 

 

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19 minutes ago, IanA. said:

The forepeak and head area still needs to see a lot of dust created

Had to chuckle here, just finished forepeak ceiling clean up after it was half done for the past five years...
Though it was less work compared to your sanding, just removal of residue glue and one thing coat of paint. Which doesn't cover perfectly, but good enough and less weight ;) (its not a race boat, it doesn't matter all that much)

21 minutes ago, IanA. said:

I thought it might look a bit tacky but actually gives a slightly more professional feel then I expected.

I prefer black too, the white plastic always looks cheaper to my eyes for some reason. Whereas black feels more like decorative trim than tacked on, its the contrast probably?

The mast will be clear coated entirely, or only under deck? Should look very nice below, that's for sure.

23 minutes ago, IanA. said:

Will give up soon and let her make the final choice since she probably has better taste then me..

Isn't that the truth? What are you thinking of when it comes to fabrics? We just settled on light beige since its nicer to sit on than some of the more waterproof stuff. Less suitable for heading down dripping wet though.

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