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Oh, I did read Crashdog's words differently.
Some stuff moves out of the UK to the EU, so that is a win out of a losing situation. Mainly the big industry, including finance. The SME will take the brunt.
It is not cherry picking, but a normal harvest situation.

But it still sucks to have the UK leaving the union. More on geopolitical reasons then anything else.

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No way I'm going to PA. This was a top thread, now it's fucked. Thank you fucking idiots.

I was thinking for the last few days that  as a pro union lifelong Alliance voter I should respond to this post but turning on the radio this morning and hearing Mike Nesbitt made me decide to act.

Umm, that would be you.  1) You are fool (as is both evident and self-confessed) who thinks that brexit is a good idea.  2) You post nonsense that only reinforces this and believe that you a

Posted Images

2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

& shock horror in the Daily Mail

No Deal would be a nail in the coffin of Western democracy and celebrated by Russia and China

And it directed this at the Waynes who wank on about the 52/48 moment; 

'To allow the remaining 2% to get in the way would be a monumental failure of statecraft, on a par with the democracies’ appeasement of Nazi Germany in the 1930s.'

Shock horror you forgot to mention it was your old buddy who you fell out with, Andrew Neil ( great free thinking interviewer who over the years had made the Daily Politics show his own ) and that he may have questioned your view that just the UK had backed off on the LPF demands, to that of the EU

"Of course, the final 2 per cent is important. It always is. But if, as looks likely, the EU is now prepared to abandon its insistence on a ‘ratchet clause’ — whereby Brussels could unilaterally impose wide-ranging tariffs and/or quotas on British exports to the EU should it deem Britain is failing to keep in line with EU rules and regulations — then there is a deal to be done.

If, as is possible, Britain diverges from EU standards as the years pass (not to lower standards but to different ones) then Brussels might well have grounds to complain. Provided this is done through independent arbitration and any penalties are limited in scope (to the sector where the divergence has happened) then Britain should be able to live with that."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9053755/ANDREW-NEIL-No-Deal-nail-coffin-Western-democracy-celebrated-Russia-China.html

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UK has to lower standards to get an US deal or Chinese. So he is saying the UK can do without any mayor deal. If he interviewed himself he would bring that up.
Different ones are just mumble humble.

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The Leader of the House, @Jacob_Rees_Mogg will announce this afternoon that the House of Commons will sit next week on Monday, 21 and Tuesday 22 December.
The EU-UK deal is on, or not. X-mas gift coming, one way or the other.
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51 minutes ago, LeoV said:

UK has to lower standards to get an US deal or Chinese. So he is saying the UK can do without any mayor deal. If he interviewed himself he would bring that up.
Different ones are just mumble humble.

So how do the EU propose to have deals with the Chinese or USA, surely the same problem, they either have to lower their standards or no deal, its no different.

As long as US or Chinese goods are not cross bordering via the UK then what deal we do with the US or China is not the EU's problem.

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1 hour ago, Waynemarlow said:

So how do the EU propose to have deals with the Chinese or USA, surely the same problem, they either have to lower their standards or no deal, its no different.

As long as US or Chinese goods are not cross bordering via the UK then what deal we do with the US or China is not the EU's problem.

Lol

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8 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Yes, what I was actually saying was that Boris went in expecting to pick cherries and got rolled over by a woman in a suit, and lost all his cherries along the way...

 

8 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

/Banzai!

Crash it is actually a "backtrack" by the UK then "rolling over" by the UK.

This path not easy to follow. Simplistically negotiations followed this order to allow the UK access to the single market. 

/Banzai!

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3 hours ago, LeoV said:

The Leader of the House, @Jacob_Rees_Mogg will announce this afternoon that the House of Commons will sit next week on Monday, 21 and Tuesday 22 December.

Maybe hang off until tomorrow....it's a signal.

Nic Watt from BBC

"Brexiteers being reassured that the UK has seen off unilateral punishment by the EU if the UK diverges from EU standards in future - the “lightening tariffs”. They are being told UK has negotiated a joint dispute mechanism. That could lead to punishment if one side loses

MPs being told the signal will come if and when Jacob Rees-Mogg announces that the commons will sit on Monday and Tuesday next week. That would come before any UK / EU announcement"

 

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1 hour ago, crashdog said:

Yes, what I was actually saying was that Boris went in expecting to pick cherries and got rolled over by a woman in a suit, and lost all his cherries along the way...

Gotcha...maybe you also picked this. Johnson is useless at negotiating with women.

This letter reveals the head of civil service wanted to settle with sacked spad Sonia Khan who was marched out of No 10 by armed police after being summarily sacked by Dominic Cummings. 

Johnson  overruled him. Govt went on to lose and make big payout

EpSYI1VU0AIlPip.jpeg

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21 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

....The EU's conditions for that access is a LPF involving the UK being regulatory aligned. Remember also this is all a two way street.

Original proposal by EU.

1. Enforcement of regulatory alignment and measuring any divergence would be via immediate arbitration based on EU court precdence and rulings etc The UK rejected that.

Alternative proposal jointly evolved.

2. Enforcement would be via immediate redress in the form of an automatic increase in tarriffs for any divergence in regulations to maintain the LPF. UK rejected that. This roughly aligns to how the WTO operates for dealing with say dumping and involving immediate redress pending their dispute rulings which take years.

Enter No Deal which is effectively accepting those penalties in advance. Doesn't make fucking sense. 

3. Today they have gone back to 1. the initial EU proposal the UK rejected with the addition of some immediate unilateral action. Negotiations are now concentrating on that and measuring any divergence and who/how rulings are made.

A merry go round, closer but still a long way apart

I suspect maybe a shortage on clarity from the parties deliberate. Allows this backtrack and rolling over by UK to involve no loss of domestic political face. 

16 hours ago, LeoV said:

Oh, I did read Crashdog's words differently.
Some stuff moves out of the UK to the EU, so that is a win out of a losing situation. Mainly the big industry, including finance. The SME will take the brunt.
It is not cherry picking, but a normal harvest situation.

13 hours ago, crashdog said:

Yes, what I was actually saying was that Boris went in expecting to pick cherries and got rolled over by a woman in a suit, and lost all his cherries along the way...

You two have larger brains than me and maybe you or someone else can help me here??

I can't work this out from the perspective of 'hardline Brexiteers' and can't find a 'trade pundit' or anyone in MSM that explores it.

Are these pundits "missing the woods for the trees"??

__________________

- UK rejects EU starting option 1. as per the the PD and on Sunday rejects EU Option 2. and retreats to Option 1.

- Option 2. involving access to SM with UK opt outs on regulatory alignment either imediately OR in the future by imposing TB and NTB on UK is a hardline Brexiteer dream come true. BUT they didn't accept it.

- Option 1. involving measured opt outs and arbitration, even in some diluted form is close to a hardline Brexiteers worst nightmare. They would then surely prefer a No Deal. But they aren't now screaming and agitating?

BTW a No Deal is simply Option 2. BUT NO SM and with all TB and NTB's on everything being brought forward and occurs at Day 1.

_______________

SO.

The ONLY conclusion I can come to is on Sunday and for the first time, Johnson and those associated (Gove, Raab, and Patel etc) suddenly realised they had no political future if they acceded to the hardline Brexiteers wishes. They had to take them head on.

Prospect of a deal is very strong and possibly more detailed than many contemplate.

- They AND hardline Brexiteers included have rolled over on Option 1. Brexiteers relative silence over Option 1. underpins that thought.

OR

Is there ANY OTHER explanation for this "backtrack" and "rolling over to the EU" associated with now wanting Option 1 prosecuted??

Is it god forbid NOT that at all!!!? For instance;

Realising there was NO BLAME they could attribute to the EU to No Deal with Option 2 on foot, they retreated to Option 1. This is for the express purpose of frustrating negotiations to produce a No Deal BUT they can now comfortably blame the EU?

There is NO prospect of a deal at all.

- The hardline Brexiteers have STILL got Johnson by the balls. Their relative silence over Option 1. underpins that thought.

- Johnson and closely associated have had NO self preservation and political future epiphany.

- This is just another giant Downing St CON, just like their election campaign.  88% of Conservative ads 'misleading'

Can you help me?

What do you think? :huh:

Or should I seek professional psychological help? :o

Note. I have carved out fishing as it is an emotional 'sideshow' with no substance being played by both parties and works both ways in so far as a future relationship between the two under a UN Fishing Treaty umbrella.

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To further compound Johnson's problem with the Brexiteer CRG/NRG/ERG etc.

Covid and Brexit are tied together by political policy decision making.

The backbench rebels are pushing him hard to hold his promise for lifting of Covid restrictions in 8 days time to allow households to gather for Christmas (Starmer yesterday seeking a review).

Look at the US and Thanksgiving for guidance where infections surged and mortality rate has now exceeded autumn.

However the numbers arent looking very fucking flash.

Case rates rising fast in London, SE & E, but also now rising in Midlands, NW and SW, and decline has halted in NE.

Clear only tough restrictions suppress transmission once it gets away and UK Contact/Trace is a shot duck.

During national lockdown, case rates either went from rising to falling, or from falling slowly to fast, in all English regions.

Since restrictions eased, all declines have either flattened or reversed.

EpOdkS2XEAAg2yA.jpeg

Then go to the metric that follows cases and drives mortality rate.

Numbers of Covid patients in hospital are rising — and accelerating — in London, SE, E & Wales, also appear to be rebounding in Midlands.

UK occupancy could easily pass mid Nov peak again. 

Sobering thought. Autumn first wave hospitals had emptied of elderly etc BUT far from empty now. Capacity due to staffing has shrunk since Autumn. Christmas resurgence is like starting race with the virus already half a lap ahead compared to Autumn, with mortality offset of improved treatment and lower age grouping only available with treatment being available.

EpOdxrXW4AMMaYz.jpeg

Courtesy JBM at FT

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Accepting UK is a 3rd country is not fighting ERG, they like that.
But it ends "special access" to parts of the members only club.
That is harder to swallow for the less extreme Brexiteers, ERG always wanted that.

You can wonder if the UK attitude was right; we (the Tories) do not ask for much, so what is the problem !
Could have said; we (the UK) ask for a lot, access to a big market, but we will try to get as much as possible.
Now all was very negative, politicized and Wayne like, and leaves no room for compromises in the UK political field.
From the start on.
And we know the decision lays in the UK hands. They want access. They left. BJ still has to decide.

Normally access to each other market is about building bridges, this Brexit is about destroying bridges. Be careful not to blow up the wrong ones in the process too.(some Canadian official said that years ago).

It looks like the EU is getting firmer and firmer and less compromising due to pressure of the deadlines and IMB etc.
Negotiators brought in all kinds of scenario's, and the EU is ditching a few scenario's as unworkable due to need to get parliamentarily approval and the need of governance for a rogue state the UK now is. Boris Boomerang.

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Tusk; do not waste your time, said years ago;

EpSQ-zeUYAAPHSB?format=png&name=900x900

Only 2 times real talks, a couple of months with May, and since October with BJ. For the rest UK was in lala land doing their spectacular infighting.
To blame it on the EU will always decide at the last minute while waiting for that... But what could you expect.

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6 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Or should I seek professional psychological help?

Really,  are you asking us that question. Look at the facts, you are spending 20 hours a day constantly addicted to a cause which you have absolutely no involvement in other than as a commentator using hindsight and of which you seem to create more conspiracy theorys than Area 51 in Roswell USA.

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4 minutes ago, cms said:

More backtracking. Sabre rattling doesn't cut the mustard it seems ...

UK drops push for renationalising of fishing vessels in Brexit talks | Politics | The Guardian

Your idea of backtracking and mine are different, as I have often said, the Brits are pretty good at moving around road blocks. Sure you can keep your ownership, but you must comply to the UK's rules and land all your catch in UK ports. All the cost of ownership you can have in your NL based tax dodging company.

European-owned vessels under British colours would need to operate under UK standards rather than EU regulations. They would also need to significantly increase the percentage of the catch they land in British ports. One source said the UK now wanted 100% of the catch to be landed in the UK, rather than 70% as previously suggested, but government sources were unable to confirm the details.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/15/uk-drops-push-for-renationalising-of-fishing-vessels-in-brexit-talks?fbclid=IwAR0JV9m_1kztHTSfxAUY-gP30khLYbTzg2fpJXbLyt70HTBv-gaP67JkrT8

 

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If you compare the stuff UK wants on fish in its EEZ, but not on other stuff in the EEZ it get's ridiculous.
UK regulations, fine. Before they are changed the UK is back talking deals again.

UK ownership... ok,sorry Chinese company that owns oil drilling rigs in the North Sea...you have to make a separate UK business entity for that.
Land all catch in the UK, electricity generated in the UK EEZ waters, can not be delivered to EU or Norway, but has to pass first mainland UK.

Do this with trade on mainland UK, sorry Facebook, you have to be UK owned, sorry Morgan Stanley, UK owned please.

And all companies only staffed by English.. British I mean.

It is of a stupidity you only see in midlife crises, even children are less stupid, they at least ask why over and over.
 

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Even children know what a flagged vessel is and that vessel only carries a flag. They would not think the rules of the flagged country extend outside it's territorial waters. It's called the geographic limit of sovereingty which their parents should know providing they are not the village idiot.

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12 minutes ago, jgh66 said:

Simple UK solution: one gunboat per UK flagged vessel that follows 24/7... 

We make some nice gunboats in France that we sell to tinpot dictators around the world. May be we could get a few skint British expats to bolt 2 or 3 accessories inside to be OK with "rules of origin" and embed a bit of Britishness in them then flog them to the royal navy as Boris will have been more successful in starving the UK from raw materials than Hitler bombs? Paid cash before deliveries in case they eventually want to ignore the contract in a limited way.

1920px-French_Navy_Offshore_Patrol_Ship_

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8 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

We make some nice gunboats in France that we sell to tinpot dictators around the world. May be we could get a few skint British expats to bolt 2 or 3 accessories inside to be OK with "rules of origin" and embed a bit of Britishness in them then flog them to the royal navy as Boris will have been more successful in starving the UK from raw materials than Hitler bombs? Paid cash before deliveries in case they eventually want to ignore the contract in a limited way.

1920px-French_Navy_Offshore_Patrol_Ship_

That's a better looking boat than the River class Boris is using

45153648_river_class.jpg

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6kUPHIpT_normal.jpg
 
Today we signed a deal with Mexico supporting a trading relationship of more than £5bn.
 
 
The deal means:
 
certainty for
 
business
 
a step closer to joining #CPTPP
 
negotiating a deeper and better agreement with Mexico next year
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Christmas/New Year is shaping up as being a real cracker.

- No Deal on future relationship with the EU including trade.

- No extension or implementation period to soften the blow.

- A third Covid wave and 3rd national lockdown; and

- If medium term forecasts are correct - severe flooding. 

Johnson responsible for all 4 as there wasn't any meaningful flood mitigation programs undertaken during Tory austerity. 

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31 minutes ago, huey 2 said:

Liz Truss - Today we signed a 'short term EU continuity agreement' with Mexico supporting a trading relationship of more than £5bn.

Fixed 

32 minutes ago, huey 2 said:
The deal means:....a step closer to joining #CPTPP

CPTPP???? Where does Little England get towed to... Pitcairn?

 

images - 2020-12-17T021434.836.jpeg

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Meanwhile, the Guardian understands that at a two-hour meeting on Monday of EU and UK chief veterinary officers and chief officers of plant health, European commission officials raised concerns about British border preparations for 1 January.

EU officials claimed that government health certificates that will be required for livestock, plants and animal products coming into the UK had been shoddily drafted.

The concern for Brussels is in cases where the UK is used as a “land bridge” for goods, such as meat, or livestock that might come from Ireland to the continent.

EU sources said the health certificates contained several substantial errors, raising safety issues and potentially limiting the quantity and type of goods that the commission would allow to flow through the UK.

An EU diplomat said: “Given the high-profile role of food supplies in the UK Brexit debate this autumn, we were surprised about the degree of preparation.”

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3 hours ago, jgh66 said:

Ursula said that the UK now has folded on most issues... just a bit of fish missing... 

 

Leo won't be missing his Dutch soused herring or Maatjesharingas.

 It is not caught in British waters, but imported from Norway and Denmark and caught in Skagerrak, and around Norway and Iceland.

There is some imported from Scotland but the canny Scots will open up a smuggling route.

Similiarly Germans calling theirs Matjesbrötchen.

220px-Haring_03 (1).jpg

EpWjnt4W4AA-cLS.jpeg

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9 minutes ago, cms said:

An EU diplomat said: “Given the high-profile role of food supplies in the UK Brexit debate this autumn, we were surprised about the degree of preparation.”

One in two meals eaten is imported.

Waynes new diet of pebbles and dirty rainwater is firming up as reality.

At least obesity will no longer be an issue.

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I loved the climb down on the demand that UK flag vessels land 100% of their catch in UK, since Shetland and Scottish boats, for example, land a large proportion of their catch in Norway, Denmark ...

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Henig thread on this letter to the editor in the Telegraph.

Tradey pundits are now bored out of their minds so doing detective work. :D

- Mode 1 services operation which means virtually no WTO barriers anyway.

- Disolved his other company last year.

- Turnover £1.2m.

-  A procurement company with specialises in, amongst other things, PPE??

EpWctg_WMAA5vNj (1).jpeg

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23 minutes ago, cms said:

I loved the climb down on the demand that UK flag vessels land 100% of their catch in UK, since Shetland and Scottish boats, for example, land a large proportion of their catch in Norway, Denmark ...

And if they had to land in the UK, there is no where to process it or sell it other than the EU.

This has to be the craziest fishing rights negotiation since the Vikings invaded Little England in the 11th century.

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46 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Henig thread on this letter to the editor in the Telegraph.

Tradey pundits are now bored out of their minds so doing detective work. :D

- Mode 1 services operation which means virtually no WTO barriers anyway.

- Disolved his other company last year.

- Turnover £1.2m.

-  A procurement company with specialises in, amongst other things, PPE??

EpWctg_WMAA5vNj (1).jpeg

Apparently He’s from cheltenham and for some reason his letter reminded me of this.

I know, the GN is not in Cheltenham but you get the idea, I’m sure...

 

 

lol

 

 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

And if they had to land in the UK, there is no where to process it or sell it other than the EU.

This has to be the craziest fishing rights negotiation since the Vikings invaded Little England in the 11th century.

They could still make a special brexit perfum from that, every leave voter has to apply, so we can smell them.. especially if they want to enter the EU so we can treat them with the respect they deserve... 

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15 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

/Banzai!

__________________

- UK rejects EU starting option 1. as per the the PD and on Sunday rejects EU Option 2. and retreats to Option 1.

- Option 2. involving access to SM with UK opt outs on regulatory alignment either imediately OR in the future by imposing TB and NTB on UK is a hardline Brexiteer dream come true. BUT they didn't accept it.

- Option 1. involving measured opt outs and arbitration, even in some diluted form is close to a hardline Brexiteers worst nightmare. They would then surely prefer a No Deal. But aren't they now screaming and agitating?

BTW a No Deal is simply Option 2. BUT NO SM and with all TB and NTB's on everything being brought forward and occurs at Day 1.

_______________

SO.

Banzai!/

OK, I am late on my answer, but anyway...

It looks like your Option 1 can be massaged into a structured hard exit, so I would call this "playing for time".  I think that this is the biggest risk for the EU, which is why it is so attractive to the ERG types.  Strategically, the UK wants to leave, and they want the EU to provide them a bit of a knee cushion until the UK gets its UK Worldwide strategy sorted.  At that point, the UK pushes the opt out, arbitration fails, and they exit to their glorious global britain future.  

Option 2 offers access to SM, but with the greater transparency that it requires, the exit to global britain will be a gradual drip, rather than a fabricated conflict.

Or something like that.

 

 

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4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Fixed 

CPTPP???? Where does Little England get towed to... Pitcairn?

 

images - 2020-12-17T021434.836.jpeg

Perhaps making some historical claim to the Sandwich Islands?  Hawaii is kind of desperate too these days. 

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2 hours ago, crashdog said:

OK, I am late on my answer, but anyway...

It looks like your Option 1 can be massaged into a structured hard exit, so I would call this "playing for time".  I think that this is the biggest risk for the EU, which is why it is so attractive to the ERG types. 

So they turned their back on Option 2 and reverted back to Option 1 to make a harder exit than they could with Option 2, but it would softer than a No Deal. 

Sort of like jumping off the cliff having a parachute but knowing it is faulty and surviving is touch and a go.

So that aligns with this BUT pulling back from the No Deal cliff. 

18 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

OR

Is there ANY OTHER explanation for this "backtrack" and "rolling over to the EU" associated with now wanting Option 1 prosecuted??

Is it god forbid NOT that at all!!!? For instance;

Realising there was NO BLAME they could attribute to the EU to No Deal with Option 2 on foot, they retreated to Option 1. This is for the express purpose of frustrating negotiations to produce a No Deal BUT they can now comfortably blame the EU?

There is NO prospect of a deal at all.

 

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3 hours ago, crashdog said:

At that point, the UK pushes the opt out, arbitration fails

Yep, that is why the EU is pushing that the principals to be acknowledged in writing. Later they can be more practical in how it is implemented.
Like they did with NIP, and now a trusted trader system.

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4 hours ago, LeoV said:
7 hours ago, crashdog said:

At that point, the UK pushes the opt out, arbitration fails

Yep, that is why the EU is pushing that the principals to be acknowledged in writing. Later they can be more practical in how it is implemented.
Like they did with NIP, and now a trusted trader system.

I really can't understand how a country can get itself in such a mess, even with the most inept leadership.

Even Cummings had the brains to leave before the chickens came home to roost. **

These people truly have a special skill.

____________

** Cummings still plagues Johnson.  Keir Starmer at last PMQ's for the year:

"Now we learn that while the PM and the Chancellor are telling care workers and firefighters that they'll get a pay freeze, Dominic Cummings was handed a £40k pay rise. How on earth does he justify that?" 

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Now it's getting weird.

SNP’s Drew Hendry ordered from Commons for trying to move the Mace in protest against controversial Brexit Internal Markets Bill.

Maybe we might see a repeat of Nth Ireland MP (and youngest HOC MP ever) Bernadette Devlin and all of 5' nothing in 1972 after Bloody Sunday (she was there) went down to dispatch box and gave the NI Secretary a belt over the head for bullshitting over what occured in Derry the day before.  

_Tc1qedT.jpeg

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Now it's getting weird.

SNP’s Drew Hendry ordered from Commons for trying to move the Mace in protest against controversial Brexit Internal Markets Bill.

Maybe we might see a repeat of Nth Ireland MP (and youngest HOC MP ever) Bernadette Devlin and all of 5' nothing in 1972 after Bloody Sunday (she was there) went down to dispatch box and gave the NI Secretary a belt over the head for bullshitting over what occured in Derry the day before.  

_Tc1qedT.jpeg

As a childThe first time I recall my father crying was on that Sunday, but the news out of London the next day courtesy of Miss Devlin put a broad grin back on his face.  :-) 


 

 

ps. I just last week watched a William F Buckley interview/debate with Bernadette from the way back when machine.

 

Its worth the watch if you’ve an hour to spare.

 

 

 

 

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"ps. I just last week watched a William F Buckley interview/debate with Bernadette from the way back when machine.

 Its worth the watch if you’ve an hour to spare."

It's all here and more.

Everytime Brexit pace slows it seems I do  'a Bernadette'. :P

 

On 3/10/2020 at 4:09 PM, jack_sparrow said:

Brexit news is is thin on the ground so thought sharing this may interest.

I have been a great fan of Nth Ireland activist and arch socialist Bernadete Devlin  (or Bernadette McAliskey). Our political views may not align but her political and social brain I find absolutely astounding.

Now 73 years old she is a standout as an original 1960's civil rights campaigner, a socialist breakaway from Sinn Féin (she abhorres violence) yet some of her best friends were members of the IRA, biographer at the age of 23 and a Republican to the core, but not a Nationalist (there is a big difference). She has no time for major parties, particularly Sinn Fein and it's leadership and is quoted as saying she would probably not vote for reunification in a border poll. More on that later.

Many probably only know her as the youngest MP elected to Westminister at age 21 as an Independent Socialist and who in the HOC the day following Bloody Sunday in January 1972 (she was there), stormed to the front bench and slapped NI Home Secretary across the face when he told the House the British paratroopers had fired in self-defence.  Bernadette Devlin Interview - HOC Slap

Well known as spokesperson for the Smash H-Block Campaign Committee, which supported the IRA and Nationalist hunger strikers in late 70's/early 80's and nearly murdered because of that Committee being a thorn in Thatcher's side. The Ulster Defence Association (UDA) loyalist paramilitary group shot her 9 times along with her husband in 1981 in front of her kids. The evidence indicates they did so in collusion with and at direction of the Thatcher Government and British Army.

D2AFw-cWwAEGtek.png.cddc0404459652f0f0d37dab3782fa8b.png

She is the only surviving members of the H Block Committee, all the others were targeted like her and not so lucky. All this ironically being no friend of Sinn Fein who campaigned against her in a number of elections.

This first vid is of her being interviewed in London in March 1972 just after Bloody Sunday and the day after Home Rule was brought down (collapsing Stormont for 35 years) by a  William F Buckley Jnr.

He was an American right wing writer, commentator and would be political aspirant who hosted a long running public affairs television show in the 60's in the US called the "Firing Line." 

As you can see he has this really fucking annoying contrived accent, being a combination of US east coast gentry and upper class English with a touch of Southern drawl. His approach of interrupting guests and use of obscure facts and forced analogies makes you want to reach into the screen and punch him.

He is sort of like a ruthless 1960's polarising version of Andrew Neil today. His most famous line was saying to Gore Vidal: "Now listen, you queer, stop calling me a crypto-Nazi or I will sock you in your goddam face." In his favour though, he did sail across the Atlantic twice.

Anyway if you watch you will see this wee young lass, poor as a church mouse but educated from County Tyrone, smoke in hand and unblinking either carving up this model of American aristocracy or batting it back with precision.

The three young English tosser panelists likewise. Nerves of steel as those four sitting opposite her looked down their noses in utter contempt of her and those she spoke for.

My two standouts; 

- From 11 min. Conservative versus conservative politics with “elections fought from the back of lorries, either draped in the tricolour [the Irish flag] or the Union Jack”. She doesn't accept that Catholic-Protestant paradigm and is insisting on "dual identity." That is the cornerstone to the Sunningdale (powersharing) Agreement of two years later (that never lifted off as the Unionists killed it off) and it's near facsimile the Good Friday Agreement nearly 4, 000 lives, many more suffering and 27 years later on from where she suggested that was the only way forward. Ahead of her time. The GFA by the way she is not a great fan of, but more on that later.

- From 35 min she explains in detail the background and in exacting accuracy where Ireland is today, nearly 50 years in advance.

As I said very large brain this lady. Devlin is one of the few who truly understands the "Irish Problem" and risks of unification, albeit coloured by her socialist bent. The next vid I post which is only a few years old will spell that out in greater detail.

Anyone in London who thinks fucking around with the Ireland Protocol in the Brexit WA is nothing to worry about, I would strongly suggest they watch this. 

 

images - 2020-03-10T155216.988.jpeg

 

This her protesting outside Downing St in 1971 demanding a public enquiry into the treatment of detainees...I think she practised that dagger look. You don't see politicians doing this anymore..except Patel who does the sneer version but the only look she has.

Far left is the late and great John Hume.



EefFy4JWkAAJpG1.jpeg.025d83563959e3cae1bd7a8d98baffa4.jpeg

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Looking for the above stumbled across these. 

Nearly 18 months ago since the contrived photo shoot/Photo post June wine/couch pre party leaders vote episode and still good enough to recycle a year ago .... Boris Johnson will not say who released photo with partner, or when it was taken

Lot has happened over that 18 months......the only thing that hasn't happened since is any idea on what is a Brexit exit. 

On 12/20/2019 at 1:31 AM, jack_sparrow said:
On 12/20/2019 at 1:12 AM, KC375 said:

Boris and his communication professionals

image.png.7777229c3dc527d2619fa1aa4d071f1b.png

What's Ed Sheeran doing with Johnson's squeeze?

 

And Wayne well....he is still Wayne today...confused and yet to discover one plus to why he voted leave. 

On 12/20/2019 at 2:28 AM, Waynemarlow said:
On 12/20/2019 at 2:02 AM, jack_sparrow said:

No different than yourself Jack, as soon as Brexit was won, you up sticks, cashed in your property ( paying no tax on the gain ) and moved to the EU. Where's the difference ?

I think its called "Hedging your bets"

On 12/20/2019 at 2:37 AM, KC375 said:

The difference was Jack was not supporting Brexit.

Rich people advocating for or funding a risky public policy project that only rich people can hedge against emphasis the class divide and if Brexit bombs encourages the masses to reach for "Le Rasoir National"

 

Liz Truss who ironicaly hasn't done anything much except photo copy EU FTA's as continuity agreements, but many think Cabinets best performer.

On 12/20/2019 at 3:45 AM, jack_sparrow said:

The Johnson Government have removed all parliamentary oversight to both Brexit, the EU FTA and presumably all other FTA's.

World wide experience shows building broad parliamentary consensus for FTAs is a condition for sustainable FTA's. As a consequence of this secret approach there can be no industry/stakeholder participation, likewise a mandatory ingredient. The UK also does not have in place a global trade strategy, likewise a precondition and which take a long time to prepare.

Layered over the above is the UK has no experience negotiating FTA's.

Just imagine in 10 years time the books that will be written about this guaranteed clusterfuck.

 

 

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9 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:
12 hours ago, crashdog said:

OK, I am late on my answer, but anyway...

It looks like your Option 1 can be massaged into a structured hard exit, so I would call this "playing for time".  I think that this is the biggest risk for the EU, which is why it is so attractive to the ERG types. 

So they turned their back on Option 2 and reverted back to Option 1 to make a harder exit than they could with Option 2, but it would softer than a No Deal. 

Yet after ditching Option 2, these ex Brexit Party lot think they have been sold out with how Option 1 will be prosecuted by Johnson with support of and in collusion with Tory Brexiteers.

The Brexiteers are now turning on each other. :lol:

EpYpGC3XYAQ9L8K.jpeg

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TODAY CRUNCH DAY - I think :D

3 Paths Johnson can take having walked away from Option 2 on Sunday.

ACCESS TO SM

1. Option 1 - Soft

On 12/16/2020 at 1:52 PM, jack_sparrow said:

Option 1. involving measured opt outs and arbitration, even in some diluted form is close to a hardline Brexiteers worst nightmare. They would then surely prefer a No Deal. But they aren't now screaming and agitating?

SO.

The ONLY conclusion I can come to is on Sunday and for the first time, Johnson and those associated (Gove, Raab, and Patel etc) suddenly realised they had no political future if they acceded to the hardline Brexiteers wishes. They had to take them head on.

Prospect of a deal is very strong and possibly more detailed than many contemplate.

- They AND hardline Brexiteers included have rolled over on Option 1. Brexiteers relative silence over Option 1. underpins that thought.

2. Option 1 - Hard

13 hours ago, crashdog said:

t looks like your Option 1 can be massaged into a structured hard exit, so I would call this "playing for time".  I think that this is the biggest risk for the EU, which is why it is so attractive to the ERG types.  Strategically, the UK wants to leave, and they want the EU to provide them a bit of a knee cushion until the UK gets its UK Worldwide strategy sorted.....

NO ACCESS TO SM

3. Option 1 - No Deal (Immediate OR Crash's version takes longer)

On 12/16/2020 at 1:52 PM, jack_sparrow said:

Realising there was NO BLAME they could attribute to the EU to No Deal with Option 2 on foot, they retreated to Option 1. This is for the express purpose of frustrating negotiations to produce a No Deal BUT they can now comfortably blame the EU?

There is NO prospect of a deal at all.

13 hours ago, crashdog said:

It looks like your Option 1 can be massaged into a structured hard exit, so I would call this "playing for time"......  

...... At that point, the UK pushes the opt out, arbitration fails, and they exit to their glorious global britain future.  

 

So today LAST scheduled sitting day

- The sign there is a deal Leader of House JRM calls Parliament back next week.

- If not then No Deal OR Johnson will do alone without HOC breaking promise to backbench. He is keen however to have Starmer forced to vote support or abstain.

- IMB back from Lord's (voted down 2nd and last time yesterday) to HOC. Depends on Deal or No Deal. Today pass amended, pass 'as is' OR leave until next week providing a deal. Tax Bill a money bill doesn't require Lord's so joins IMB in tandem. 

- The only other thing is MAYBE ADD a defacto transition extension in guise of implementation period providing EU agree and obviously some sort of deal on foot that needs time, particular on EU front ie. to ratify deal formally next year. 

Don't think there is anything else.

PS. I'm punting on 1. Option 1 Soft and JRM singing just after lunch.

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

I think its called "Hedging your bets"

 

5 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Don't think there is anything else.

In other words for all your deep thinking on the subject, you haven’t got a clue other than what hindsight you can commentate on. I guess that must be because we haven’t seen the researcher with the little spelling error of late, they wrote some well researched pieces but alas of late all we have seen from you is conspiracy theories which seem to evaporate about 24 hours later.

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On 12/16/2020 at 7:23 PM, LeoV said:

Tusk; do not waste your time, said years ago;

EpSQ-zeUYAAPHSB?format=png&name=900x900

Only 2 times real talks, a couple of months with May, and since October with BJ. For the rest UK was in lala land doing their spectacular infighting.
To blame it on the EU will always decide at the last minute while waiting for that... But what could you expect.

Leo this chart a good companion to yours. (No cited detail yet)

 

EpbMDNFXYAE7EB0.jpeg

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Liz Truss who ironicaly hasn't done anything much except photo copy EU FTA's as continuity agreements, but many think Cabinets best performer.

She has to have shagged BumFace and still has the photos.

 

And don't forget the final clue.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Village idiots comprehension ....citing unrelated posts 12 months apart and one his own .....has reached new heights of idiocy.

 You brought those very exerts up in your own post. Whats even funnier is that you have had to go back through the many hundreds of posts I have made over the last couple of years, to find a post I made over a year ago, that fits in with your agenda of the moment. Gosh I reckon you must be having sleepless nights with the thought of " Wayne" giving you nghtmares.

Whats even going to be even funnier is that when Boris walks out or pulls off a deal, everything that you have ever written on the subject virtually is trashed. What an epitah to a mans life to be known as the nutter on SA who wrote over 25000 posts on a subject of which he has absolutely no influence on the outcome whatsoever. Who really is the village idiot.

 

4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

And Wayne well....he is still Wayne today...confused and yet to discover one plus to why he voted leave. 

On 12/19/2019 at 4:28 PM, Waynemarlow said:
On 12/19/2019 at 4:02 PM, jack_sparrow said:

No different than yourself Jack, as soon as Brexit was won, you up sticks, cashed in your property ( paying no tax on the gain ) and moved to the EU. Where's the difference ?

I think its called "Hedging your bets"

 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Shit ......

......and look at last one on the list??

BumFace - "Machinery of Govt Change."

Is this where he resigns ?? :lol:

 

 

Love No 5 in the list, I wonder whether the UK will deduct the outstanding amount from any future payments to the EU, mind you the interest rate is probably higher than what we can borrow at the moment.

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UK not doing business with the EU is more a vision for the future.

It is nuts, 14 days to go, traffic jams on the EU side as UK is stockpiling, business have no clue whatsoever to prepare for tariffs or not. OR even if logistic chains are robust enough (nope). Covid rampaging. 

So HOC on vacation, but could be called back in an emergency, BJ not off to Merkel or Macron (who caught Covid) as was planned for tomorrow.
And no one knows when or BJ or VDL folds, or if BJ just want to let it run out of time and declare Brexit done as promised.

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4 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

 You brought those very exerts up in your own post. Whats even funnier is that you have had to go back through the many hundreds of posts I have made over the last couple of years, to find a post I made over a year ago, that fits in with your agenda of the moment. Gosh I reckon you must be having sleepless nights with the thought of " Wayne" giving you nghtmares.

Whats even going to be even funnier is that when Boris walks out or pulls off a deal, everything that you have ever written on the subject virtually is trashed. What an epitah to a mans life to be known as the nutter on SA who wrote over 25000 posts on a subject of which he has absolutely no influence on the outcome whatsoever. Who really is the village idiot.

 

 

Umm, that would be you.

 1) You are fool (as is both evident and self-confessed) who thinks that brexit is a good idea.

 2) You post nonsense that only reinforces this and believe that you are winding up the likes of Jack.

 3) Jack is making a conscious, informed choice to post here; it's his time and he chooses how he wants to spend it. He's obviously interested in the topic and the outcome, perhaps a useful comparison might be to an amateur historian... one with strong ties to the history that's being made.

 You may disagree with his choice but calling him an idiot for expressing his interest reflects on you more than on him.

Cheers,

                 W.

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13 minutes ago, WGWarburton said:

3) Jack is making a conscious, informed choice to post here; it's his time and he chooses how he wants to spend it. He's obviously interested in the topic and the outcome, perhaps a useful comparison might be to an amateur historian... one with strong ties to the history that's being made.

Historians are usually reporters of all facts, not as a biased one side attack of that particular subject. Jack is using only hindsight of the moment and not of eventual history of the outcome of say 10 years down the road. Your analogy of an amatuer historian is extremely poor. 

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Wayne is an useful idiot for me, learned me not to engage direct with hard exit types, just point out they are to radicalized and a person has the right of free speech, even if their ideas are extreme. Like fanatics. But speak up when they are trying to convince others.

Poor UK-ers who voted for BJ in the hope Brexit will be done and could all return to a quiet live, without feeling mayor disruptions due to the exit.
Many of them did not even believe in an exit, but acting on "the will off the people argument, 17 M" used often by Wayne argument ...

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11 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Historians are usually reporters of all facts, not as a biased one side attack of that particular subject. Jack is using only hindsight of the moment and not of eventual history of the outcome of say 10 years down the road. Your analogy of an amatuer historian is extremely poor. 

You don't even realise when you are writing nonsense, do you? Even published, peer-reviewed historians, writing with the benefit of hindsight, display bias. Amateurs are just that: hobbyists with an interest in the topic, sometimes with insight, sometimes not; and, of course, it was an analogy, not a job title.

 I doubt you care but if you reviewed, proof-read or even spell-checked your posts before hitting submit, you might look a bit less foolish.

Cheers,

                W.

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5 minutes ago, WGWarburton said:

Even published, peer-reviewed historians, writing with the benefit of hindsight, display bias.

Sure but imagine if Jack went along to a peer review with his posts to other historians, they would reject 99.9% of his posts as based on subjective opinion and not yet proven.

Is he an amatuer historian or simply a nut job with an addiction called IAD who has happened to focus on the subject of Brexit ?

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18 minutes ago, LeoV said:

but acting on "the will off the people argument, 17 M" used often by Wayne argument ...

I thought that was democracy, obviously those on the left side of politics such as LeoV seems to think otherwise.

Ah well, when the NL steps up to the plate and fills the EU's coffers for all the missing funds that the UK bought to the EU, I guess in 10 years time it will be interesting to hear if his views remain the same.

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Hi,

13 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Is he an amatuer historian or simply a nut job with an addiction called IAD who has happened to focus on the subject of Brexit ?

No, he is neither (AFAIK).

 Misspelling amateur again, in a follow-up to a post suggesting you spell-check is a slick move. I suspect I will never know in which direction you were moving but I have my suspicions, and they are not flattering.

Cheers,

              W.

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The very height of stupidity is when you have lost sight of seeing how stupid you are. 

No better example is the incumbent Cabinet and PM. They thought a one Dominic Cummings was a genius and a pure genius they couldn't do without. Worse an unelected genius who they forgave his every error and he ranked higher than the interests of the nation.

Truth be told his only talent was to come up with lies on the side of a bus and turn Brexit into a lie dressed up as a kitchen appliance. 

Possibly his other talent was to realise that and that to still be around when this shit show called Brexit finally revealed itself, it was better to be long gone.

That only leaves the idiots left at the table and the idiots that tolerate their continued existence.

Wayne is just another idiot you has lost sight that he is an idiot.

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1/ Brexit talks nugget: The two sides have wrapped up negotiations on public procurement. The UK will give European companies bidding for public sector contracts 'equal treatment' to British ones and vice-versa, Michel Barnier briefed MEPs. He called it 'a very good agreement'.

https://twitter.com/nickgutteridge/status/1339529698053898242

Piece of the puzzle falling in place;
Not following EU LPF, but just Buy British to shun out EU companies is not done.
Looks like the EU gets the stuff the Canada or Japan deal brought to the UK, maybe the UK is very successful in negotiating EU demands into a deal.

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2 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

You brought those very exerts up in your own post. Whats even funnier is that you have had to go back through the many hundreds of posts I have made over the last couple of years, to find a post I made over a year ago, that fits in with your agenda of the moment. Gosh I reckon you must be having sleepless nights with the thought of " Wayne" giving you nghtmares.

"..you have had to go back through the many hundreds of posts I have made.." 

I haven't quoted you for so long I have forgotton how. 

You flatter yourself beyond belief fool.

Your posted dribble was directly below my Devlin post I dug up for @Sea warrior from this time last year. 

Your posted dribble was hard to miss, it oozed dribble and glowed in the dark. You have reproduced it here BUT without KC's reply pointing out to you I didn't vote leave. That fucked with your make believe.

As I said, stupid. 

6 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Looking for the above stumbled across these. ...

 

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Fuck off Bullshitters

Epa2oYMXYAAQrR8.jpeg

That graphic seems entirely plausible and completely meaningless.

I bet >90% of businesses (excluding sole traders) located within easy walking distance of me don’t export, I’m pretty certain about the grocer, barber, mechanic, dentist, dance studio, stationary shop, the dozen or so restaurants, the two excellent butchers, the fishmonger, the two backers and the patisserie (although good enough they should)...etc.

There are some who do, including three big financial institutions, and a media company.

What is much more relevant than the number of businesses would be number of employees, share of turnover, etc. Just one of the businesses in my neighbourhood that exports probably employees 100 times more people than all the nonexporting businesses.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

No better example is the incumbent Cabinet and PM. They thought a one Dominic Cummings was a genius and a pure genius they couldn't do without. Worse an unelected genius who they forgave his every error and he ranked higher than the interests of the nation.

He is comedy gold though. 

 

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