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Every country I have experienced has racial issues, not just in Europe. No one is blaming Johnson for UK racism, but the UK gov is unique in publishing a report that denies or diminishes its existence, and that is what they are being criticised for.

Educational attainment is the perfect illustration of the institutional racism that exists in the UK. BAME children do attain some of the highest levels, whilst white boys in particular do relatively badly, in an education system that is already skewed against communities that are poor. Yet despite their proven intellectual capability, those same BAME children do not achieve the same level of success once they leave education, whilst white boys out-perform their academic standard once they leave. Why is this? Might it be because society as a whole provides opportunities for less able white children that it does not offer for intelligent BAME children?

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I was thinking for the last few days that  as a pro union lifelong Alliance voter I should respond to this post but turning on the radio this morning and hearing Mike Nesbitt made me decide to act.

No way I'm going to PA. This was a top thread, now it's fucked. Thank you fucking idiots.

Umm, that would be you.  1) You are fool (as is both evident and self-confessed) who thinks that brexit is a good idea.  2) You post nonsense that only reinforces this and believe that you a

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1 hour ago, Waynemarlow said:

I think every country in Europe has racial issues, why pinpoint the blame specifically on Boris and if you do, why not also point out that the report highlighted that other cultures non white had some of the highest attainment levels in education whilst working class white boys had some of the worst.

This raising of the the report on equalities has been debated widely in the UK by the press and almost entirely the whinging has been mostly by those who professionally are employed to perpetuate the topic. 

You know what the difference between nazis and the British empire is?
The germans acknowledged their crimes, sought forgiveness and resolved never to let it happen again.

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4 hours ago, Panoramix said:

 Plus racism has been on the increase in the UK in the past decade under the Tory watch!

Mmmm for one who doesn’t live in the U.K. that’s a big statement. Never before has the PC and everything has a racial connotation brigade been so strong and vociferous as in the U.K. at the present. For any political party to be allowing racism to expand at this time would be political suicide.
 

You guys read the Guardian and Twitter to much, perhaps you should live here, you wouldn’t be making the statements you are.

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7 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Mmmm for one who doesn’t live in the U.K. that’s a big statement. Never before has the PC and everything has a racial connotation brigade been so strong and vociferous as in the U.K. at the present. For any political party to be allowing racism to expand at this time would be political suicide.
 

You guys read the Guardian and Twitter to much, perhaps you should live here, you wouldn’t be making the statements you are.

I've been a foreigner in the UK for 10 years (2002 to 2012) and I've never ever had to deal with xenophobia, French friends who've stayed told me that this golden era is sadly over! So actually I am quite well qualified to make this remark.

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So your missives here are based on 9 years ago and what a few French friends now tell you what life’s like.  Gee that’s a broad data base to make up your aspersions.

Interesting those French friends chose to remain, which to any 3 year old sleuth would indicate that the U.K. may well not be as bad as you want to believe.

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6 hours ago, Panoramix said:
7 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

why pinpoint the blame specifically on Boris

Because he has shown in the past that he doesn't mind publishing racist drivel with his name underneath. Plus racism has been on the increase in the UK in the past decade under the Tory watch!

Quote

Boris Johnson called gay men 'tank-topped bumboys' and black people 'piccaninnies' with 'watermelon smiles'

https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-record-sexist-homophobic-and-racist-comments-bumboys-piccaninnies-2019-6?r=US&IR=T

Quote

Johnson claims that some of the comments were "wholly satirical," while others have been taken out of context.

:unsure:

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44 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

So your missives here are based on 9 years ago and what a few French friends now tell you what life’s like.  Gee that’s a broad data base to make up your aspersions.

Interesting those French friends chose to remain, which to any 3 year old sleuth would indicate that the U.K. may well not be as bad as you want to believe.

My friends are more reliable than the daily mail.

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1 hour ago, Panoramix said:

My friends are more reliable than the daily mail.

Who reads the Daily Mail, not me.
 

But I live in England, unlike you and I don’t consider second hand whispers from stressed out inhabitants of 12 months of COVID racked lock downs to be entirely lucid at this moment in time, particularly if you are only prepared to focus on their negatives. 
 

One would have to admit Macron is repeating many of Boris’s mistakes and France is now paying for that, what’s even worse is he never learnt from Boris’s previous mistakes.
 

 

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2 hours ago, Panoramix said:

My friends are more reliable than the daily mail.

Whatever you do, don’t believe Wayne. 

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6 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

Who reads the Daily Mail, not me.
 

But I live in England, unlike you and I don’t consider second hand whispers from stressed out inhabitants of 12 months of COVID racked lock downs to be entirely lucid at this moment in time, particularly if you are only prepared to focus on their negatives. 
 

One would have to admit Macron is repeating many of Boris’s mistakes and France is now paying for that, what’s even worse is he never learnt from Boris’s previous mistakes.
 

 

What about these French students: https://london.frenchmorning.com/2018/05/22/brexit-eleves-lycee-de-gaulle-agressions-xenophobes/

This is stuff that wasn't happening in the noughties.

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8 hours ago, mad said:

Whatever you do, don’t believe Wayne. 

So who are you going to believe then, the dreamworld of Twitter anti U.K. propagandists and Junkie Jack who has been flicked for constantly telling BS ?
 

Seems you do. Ah well there’s always a whining loser out there.

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3 hours ago, Panoramix said:

What about these French students: https://london.frenchmorning.com/2018/05/22/brexit-eleves-lycee-de-gaulle-agressions-xenophobes/

This is stuff that wasn't happening in the noughties.

Xenophobe aggression in the UK is called the British Experience, as a result the French can culturally transform themselves into a re-modelled French European.

Meanwhile in Canada and Australia officials in the health sector are looking at the painting of their head of state, and quietly asking themselves; when are the British vaccines coming ? Are we not important to her ?

Canada gets their Pfizer from the EU, while the Pfizer HQ is just over the border.
Australia demands AZ from the EU factories, EU replies, ask AZ or your Queen for UK products.

Slowly the EU pronunciation in bad English of "Third Country" is drifting more to "Turd Country".

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5 hours ago, Panoramix said:

What about these French students: https://london.frenchmorning.com/2018/05/22/brexit-eleves-lycee-de-gaulle-agressions-xenophobes/

This is stuff that wasn't happening in the noughties.

I ought to know better than post in this circle-jerk thread but here goes.

I live in UK and for reasons I'm not going to detail, I am in a position to have experienced xenophobia, such as it exists. The comments linked above are from three years ago. There was, to some extent, xenophobic feeling at the time, expressed by a small number of  people frustrated by, as they saw it, obstruction of the Brexit they had voted for. You would come across people who felt compelled to make comments. That feeling has largely been diffused. I am not arguing Brexit to have been a good thing, far from it. However those who wanted it have got it and to that extent, the atmosphere has changed for the better. I would not be too concerned about French people in Britain experiencing negativity, nor Germans any more than they previously did.

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7 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

I ought to know better than post in this circle-jerk thread but here goes.

I live in UK and for reasons I'm not going to detail, I am in a position to have experienced xenophobia, such as it exists. The comments linked above are from three years ago. There was, to some extent, xenophobic feeling at the time, expressed by a small number of  people frustrated by, as they saw it, obstruction of the Brexit they had voted for. You would come across people who felt compelled to make comments. That feeling has largely been diffused. I am not arguing Brexit to have been a good thing, far from it. However those who wanted it have got it and to that extent, the atmosphere has changed for the better. I would not be too concerned about French people in Britain experiencing negativity, nor Germans any more than they previously did.

Good that it is better now, nevertheless all this crap was kickstarted by the party currently in power and they clearly don't care about decency, freedom, openness and tolerance which were values very widely shared in the UK 15 years ago.

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5 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Good that it is better now, nevertheless all this crap was kickstarted by the party currently in power and they clearly don't care about decency, freedom, openness and tolerance which were values very widely shared in the UK 15 years ago.

By all means. I am no fan at all of the present UK government. 

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10 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Good that it is better now, nevertheless all this crap was kickstarted by the party currently in power and they clearly don't care about decency, freedom, openness and tolerance which were values very widely shared in the UK 15 years ago.

What is it with people who can only remember the good times and never the bad. Thats crap, the whole Brexit issue had been bubbling away for 30 years or more, no this current lot of buffoons ( sorry the elite we have at the top from both main parties can be considered equally as bad as each other ) simply finished what was always inevitable. At least they had the Cajones to do it rather than let it fester away for next 30.

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27 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

What is it with people who can only remember the good times and never the bad. Thats crap, the whole Brexit issue had been bubbling away for 30 years or more, no this current lot of buffoons ( sorry the elite we have at the top from both main parties can be considered equally as bad as each other ) simply finished what was always inevitable. At least they had the Cajones to do it rather than let it fester away for next 30.

They did the equivalent of shooting oneself in the foot to cure cancer. If you do this you have a gun wound and cancer to cure instead of "just" cancer.

The gutter press has been blaming Europe for about everything for a generation but removing an imaginary issue is not going to solve actual issues such as lack of opportunities for some and regional inequalities. So now Brexit is a new business issue for many and the old unresolved stuff is still here! By the way the previous lot did try to a address some actual issues such as education, healthcare and child poverty, might not have worked as well as they were hoping but it is completely unfair to infer that they were doing nothing. The EU as well was trying to help the most deprived areas, same thing, money was not always spent very wisely but at least they were trying. Meanwhile BJ was writing anti-European and racist articles for a living... so in short he was part of the problem, not part of the solution!

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So that lot before were so wonderful that they had to write that letter, you know the one saying the gravy train had bankrupted the U.K. and the coffers were empty. Seems a habit of the Labour Party.

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15 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

What is it with people who can only remember the good times and never the bad. Thats crap, the whole Brexit issue had been bubbling away for 30 years or more, no this current lot of buffoons ( sorry the elite we have at the top from both main parties can be considered equally as bad as each other ) simply finished what was always inevitable. At least they had the Cajones to do it rather than let it fester away for next 30.

Nope, was never inevitable. "The Brexit issue" was internal Tory party division which overspilled into mainstream politics. The "majority for leave" existed only as a fabrication drummed up in a protest vote, fuelled by populism and the xenophobia referenced above. The timing fortuitously perfect for the "winners", gaining just enough support to succeed before the lies unravelled.

 You can keep on saying it Wayne but it won't make it true. There was never any inevitability about the process- even it's advocates didn't think they would win, and had they lost the issue would have been parked for decades... probably never regaining the momentum needed to be carried over the line.

Britain, Europe and their partners are diminished by Brexit.

Perhaps you could suggest what "a successful Brexit" might look like? What do you think we are looking forward to?

Cheers,

              W.

 

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2 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

So that lot before were so wonderful that they had to write that letter, you know the one saying the gravy train had bankrupted the U.K. and the coffers were empty. Seems a habit of the Labour Party.

Not sure which letter you are referring to but money spent by labour during the late nineties and the noughties will be equivalent to a rounding error compared to the total cost of Brexit!

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2 hours ago, Panoramix said:

Not sure which letter you are referring to but money spent by labour during the late nineties and the noughties will be equivalent to a rounding error compared to the total cost of Brexit!

Agee any Brexit loses in the short term will be a rounding error compared to the future UK Covid bar bill, a bill that all countries will have to face or will France do a Euro thing and just keep pumping the funny money into the system until something goes pop.

David Cameron fury as Ed Balls says 'no money left' note was a joke

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9 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Agee any Brexit loses in the short term will be a rounding error compared to the future UK Covid bar bill, a bill that all countries will have to face or will France do a Euro thing and just keep pumping the funny money into the system until something goes pop.

David Cameron fury as Ed Balls says 'no money left' note was a joke

That was a joke : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8688470.stm

As for the funny money, it is the pot calling the kettle black! The Anglosphere did create its fair bit of funny money after 2008.

As for Covid shadowing Brexit, I am sure that some in Downing street see COVID as an opportunity to hide the Brexit mess!

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Stop mixing up stuff. Brexit has already cost more than the UK has paid into the EU system in 40 years. Where are your sunlit uplands? Some very rich guys who sponsored vote leave are very happy not to be controlled by the EU so money laundering can go on, but what's about the other 99.99% of your population?

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More good news for Whyne ...

JP Morgan

He also warned that the bank is likely to move people out of London and to Europe due to Brexit.

He said Europe "has had, and will continue to have, the upper hand" in Brexit negotiations.

How many move out of the UK depends on still unresolved questions in those talks about how financial services will operate, he said.

"We may reach a tipping point many years out when it may make sense to move all functions that service Europe out of the United Kingdom and into continental Europe," Mr Dimon said.

 

In the letter, he warned that the split from Europe will hurt the UK's economic prospects in the years ahead.

"Brexit was accomplished, but many issues still need to be negotiated. And in those negotiations, Europe has had, and will continue to have, the upper hand, " he said.

"In the short run (ie, the next few years), this cannot possibly be a positive for the United Kingdom's GDP."

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22 minutes ago, cms said:

He also warned that the bank is likely to move people out of London and to Europe due to Brexit.

Excellent news, the next time they go broke ( as they always seem to do ) it won't be the UK covering their arses.

Mind you in a letter to their partners they showed their true allegiance to the EU. As they always do, they will only come to Europe if they can make lots of money and that ain't goner happen anytime soon in the EU.

https://www.jpmorgan.com/wealth-management/wealth-partners/insights/why-we-like-investing-in-the-united-states-more-than-europe-now

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If you have time, the Peterson institute is usually worth a listen. They show the damaging effect of Brexit on the recovery from Covid is already evident in the UK when compared to US and EU. In fact, contrary to Waynes assertion, the cost of Covid will be trivial compared to the cost of Brexit.

The downward blip caused by Covid has already been recovered from in the US and EU, but the UK has only recovered half, and recovery has slowed markedly since Jan, such that the cost of Brexit will exceed the cost of Covid in the UK by mid 2021. Covid costs are expected to ease somewhat from then in most countries, but Brexit costs will just be getting started.

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1 hour ago, jgh66 said:

Where are your sunlit uplands?

Ummm I think there may have been a melt down in Europe for the last 12 months due to a pandemic, did your Twitter feed not tell you that ?

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1 hour ago, Waynemarlow said:

Ummm I think there may have been a melt down in Europe for the last 12 months due to a pandemic, did your Twitter feed not tell you that ?

They did not mention anything about the sunlit uplands, so please help us.

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58 minutes ago, gewoon ik said:

They did not mention anything about the sunlit uplands, so please help us.

You are correct, there's no sunny uplands for anybody in Europe for the forseeable future, its thus not mentioned.

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2 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

Ummm I think there may have been a melt down in Europe for the last 12 months due to a pandemic, did your Twitter feed not tell you that ?

Exactly what I've said a few posts above. You guys are so happy to have the COVID excuse.

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18 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Exactly what I've said a few posts above. You guys are so happy to have the COVID excuse.

And sod all vaccines for first doses for the next 3 months ....

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15 minutes ago, cms said:

And sod all vaccines for first doses for the next 3 months ....

Tell me about it.<_<

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24 minutes ago, mad said:

Tell me about it.<_<

UK went one way and EU another. By mid summer we will all be in the same situation probably.

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1 hour ago, Waynemarlow said:

You are correct, there's no sunny uplands for anybody in Europe for the forseeable future, its thus not mentioned.

Thanks for the non-answer.

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2 hours ago, gewoon ik said:

Thanks for the non-answer.

 

4 hours ago, gewoon ik said:

They did not mention anything about the sunlit uplands, so please help us.

You get a non answer to a childish stupid question, what else would you expect.

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7 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

 

You get a non answer to a childish stupid question, what else would you expect.

So you don't know or don't want to know. Got it. Thanks

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NI riots, just teething problems...

Reverse of Brexit, impossible.
Move the border to mainland Ireland, will upset another group.

Now we can see if BJ is a statesman or not regarding the tougher aspects of Brexit.
There is no solution other then compromise, hard work and building trust with all parties.

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13 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Now we can see if BJ is a statesman or not regarding the tougher aspects of Brexit.

I think we had the answer many times. In term of statesmanship and promotion of the common interest, at best he is a mafia style godfather promoting the interests of a small clique. Looking at how he behaves with women close to him, I think that he is only able to promote his own interests or may be even only just the interests of his willy! Ulster people who want peace need to take their future in their own hands while bracing themselves for random interferences from Downing street.

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9 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Ulster people who want peace need to take their future in their own hands while bracing themselves for random interferences from Downing street.

So any where else in the U.K. if you start burning buses and injuring police by rioting, you get thrown in the slammer. Do these rioters get special dispensation for being Northern Irish or treated just as ordinary criminals ? 

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5 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

So any where else in the U.K. if you start burning buses and injuring police by rioting, you get thrown in the slammer. Do these rioters get special dispensation for being Northern Irish or treated just as ordinary criminals ? 

Taking future in their own hands doesn't mean rioting and burning buses. It means ditching Boris to the ditch he belongs and doing stuff like negotiations without him. 

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7 minutes ago, Upp3 said:

Taking future in their own hands doesn't mean rioting and burning buses. It means ditching Boris to the ditch he belongs and doing stuff like negotiations without him. 

So what you are saying is that the NI should get their act together and fully utilise the NI Parliament to make decisions for the benefit of the NI. 
 

I thought that’s what Boris and previous U.K. PM’s had been trying to do ? Hasn’t worked so far it seems.

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36 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

So any where else in the U.K. if you start burning buses and injuring police by rioting, you get thrown in the slammer. Do these rioters get special dispensation for being Northern Irish or treated just as ordinary criminals ? 

Why would I want them to burn buses?

Northern Ireland has been completely let down by the UK government : false promises that Brexit wouldn't change anything for them followed by no attempt to negotiate something acceptable for both communities. Reasonable people in NI need to sit together, decide of an outcome that is in their best interests and work together to make it happen! If they expect the government to do anything for them, they will carry on going from disappointment to disappointment while the extremists will use the situation to their advantage to generate more chaos which is the actual state of affairs extremists enjoy.

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47 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

So any where else in the U.K. if you start burning buses and injuring police by rioting, you get thrown in the slammer. Do these rioters get special dispensation for being Northern Irish or treated just as ordinary criminals ? 

I take it you weren't around during the 70s+early-80s when the British government made strenuous efforts to portray the Troubles as criminal activity, rather than political?

 Withdrawal of special status? Dirty protests? Hunger strikes? 100,000 attendees at Bobby Sands' funeral?

 Sadly, wilful ignorance by either MPs or voters will not change history. It seems memories in Ireland are longer than those in England... it's a pity no-one warned that this might happen.

Cheers, 

              W.

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70’s was forty years ago, NI has become used to having peace. Maybe the locals will now adopt, you are a criminal, do the crime, do the time and this time round the few hardened terrorists may well melt away. 

Give them air time and you are just going to propagate the current situation.

One thing for sure though is that the Irish Troubles were around long before Boris and it’s going to be hard to pin everything on him as you seem to want.

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And in an interview on Sky News this morning Matt Hancock, the health secretary, did not deny a story in the Sydney Morning Herald saying that more than 700,000 doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine manufactured in the UK have been flown to Australia. The first shipment landed in February, and the paper suggests the Australian government did not reveal they were from the UK to avoid embarrassing Boris Johnson’s government.

Hancock said the UK government did not supply the doses, and that what the company did was up to them.
He said:In terms of what the companies do, these companies are manufacturing for all around the world and we source from everywhere in the world, so what I’m in control of, what matters for us as the UK Government, is making sure that we get the supplies that we have got contracted from the companies.

---------------
So no secret exclusivity contract with the UK to first use UK jabs in the UK, or AZ broke it. The whole argument about UK getting them first before the EU is now undermined.
AZ did decide to supply UK first.
Why ? You can think of various reasons. And Brexit most likely has helped this decision.

At least Hancock agrees in this with the EU standpoint; making sure that we get the supplies that we have got contracted from the companies.

Around that time the UK was importing 1 million AZ jabs from the EU, and sending 0.7M to Australia from UK supply.
Strange...

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2 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Around that time the UK was importing 1 million AZ jabs from the EU, and sending 0.7M to Australia from UK supply.

The perfidious Albion is back....

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^^
At that time Covid was spreading not as fast in Australia as in the EU, that makes it even more painful.

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16 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

70’s was forty years ago, NI has become used to having peace. Maybe the locals will now adopt, you are a criminal, do the crime, do the time and this time round the few hardened terrorists may well melt away. 

Give them air time and you are just going to propagate the current situation.

One thing for sure though is that the Irish Troubles were around long before Boris and it’s going to be hard to pin everything on him as you seem to want.

Not Boris; Brexit.  This is exactly the concern raised about the "Irish Border Question" during the Brexit debate. All Boris did was fudge the answer to an unanswerable question and lie about it. His involvement is peripheral, like a stray fingernail catching the scab on a suppurating sore. 

Did you read the reference to a hundred thousand people showing up to Bobby Sands Funeral?  Do you know who Bobby Sands was and why they showed up? We are not talking about a "few hardened terrorists" (though that would be problematic enough).

  It's almost as if you voted for Brexit with no clear understanding of the problems it might cause, despite repeated efforts by wise and well informed commentators to highlight them.

Own it.

             W.

 

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33 minutes ago, WGWarburton said:

Did you read the reference to a hundred thousand people showing up to Bobby Sands Funeral?  Do you know who Bobby Sands was and why they showed up? We are not talking about a "few hardened terrorists" (though that would be problematic enough).

Having lived in London throughout the 80’s and on foot less than a mile from the Regents Park bombings when they went off, I’m probably more aware than yourself the carnage a few hardened terrorists can bring to a large city. When a few terrorists happened to be apprehended by the SAS on a border crossing and tried to shoot their way to martyrdom and the ensuing peace deal came about, everyone hoped that the Irish would finally live in peace.
 

Would a 100’000 people turn out for a funeral of a terrorist leader shot by the SAS today, highly unlikely, My guess most of my NI acquaintances would be thankful, peace is far more imbedded in their daily living than a  century old feud.

With the NI question re the border and NI overwhelmingly voting to remain in the EU, Boris had little to lose by moving the border to the coast. I guess as most thought at the time, it was inevitable that sooner rather than later backed up by the vote, there would be reunification.

When NI had a special provision written in to allow movement both from Ireland and the U.K. one would of thought they had the best of both worlds. But no the EU decided to enforce fully to the precise letter of the law every border transaction, right down to small amounts of earth on plants, which you are now blaming Boris for not predicting they would do.
 

I guess that special provision meant different things to different folks.

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13 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

When NI had a special provision written in to allow movement both from Ireland and the U.K. one would of thought they had the best of both worlds. But no the EU decided to enforce fully to the precise letter of the law every border transaction, right down to small amounts of earth on plants, which you are now blaming Boris for not predicting they would do.
 

I guess that special provision meant different things to different folks.

UK did brexit to get control of its borders, but EU should have made its border more porous for UK to do so? WTF? All the rules for 3rd countries were known for UK. Maybe there would be less border friction if UK would have put something on negotiation table. But there was nothing.

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But the EU were the ones most adamant about the Irish Peace accord and how it should be preserved at all costs and yet when it came down to the crunch, oh we will put up border controls. If they had said that was always going to be the case, then the negotiations would ahve been resolved years earlier, the Brits would have walked.

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40 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

But the EU were the ones most adamant about the Irish Peace accord and how it should be preserved at all costs and yet when it came down to the crunch, oh we will put up border controls. If they had said that was always going to be the case, then the negotiations would ahve been resolved years earlier, the Brits would have walked.

the border controls are a known factor from the start. 

But when you behave like an austrish, you don't see it comming

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4 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

So what you are saying is that the NI should get their act together and fully utilise the NI Parliament to make decisions for the benefit of the NI. 
 

I thought that’s what Boris and previous U.K. PM’s had been trying to do ? Hasn’t worked so far it seems.

 

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2 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

Having lived in London throughout the 80’s and on foot less than a mile from the Regents Park bombings when they went off, I’m probably more aware than yourself the carnage a few hardened terrorists can bring to a large city. When a few terrorists happened to be apprehended by the SAS on a border crossing and tried to shoot their way to martyrdom and the ensuing peace deal came about, everyone hoped that the Irish would finally live in peace.
 

Would a 100’000 people turn out for a funeral of a terrorist leader shot by the SAS today, highly unlikely, My guess most of my NI acquaintances would be thankful, peace is far more imbedded in their daily living than a  century old feud.

With the NI question re the border and NI overwhelmingly voting to remain in the EU, Boris had little to lose by moving the border to the coast. I guess as most thought at the time, it was inevitable that sooner rather than later backed up by the vote, there would be reunification.

When NI had a special provision written in to allow movement both from Ireland and the U.K. one would of thought they had the best of both worlds. But no the EU decided to enforce fully to the precise letter of the law every border transaction, right down to small amounts of earth on plants, which you are now blaming Boris for not predicting they would do.
 

I guess that special provision meant different things to different folks.

Personally as a child, witnessing classmates being used as bargaining chips by armed paramilitaries in a bank hoist and having on more than one occasion had to evacuate department stores due to bomb scares, not to mention the despicable conduct I endured  at the hands of  paras as a teen and beyond, I welcomed the provos taking the fight away from Ireland and over  to England.

I’m not saying that I wanted violence in England, I didn’t, but even at an early age I could see that the only way to get the English to pay attention was to hit them in the pocketbook. 
The English in particular simply didn’t understand nor care about the destruction their policies in the 6 counties had caused. The damage caused by the thoughtless gerrymandering of arbitrary lines on maps by the English left many nationalists areas of places like Derry with an unsustainable imbalance of power. For example, areas where nationalists held majorities would find themselves in minority positions in government and the discrimination that resulted was a recipe for violence. 
 

And let none here forget, the troubles began with a bunch of young Catholic girls emulating Martin Luther King’s peaceful approach to the similar injustices in the US but unfortunately, these girls were accosted and terrorized by the loyalists and the rest they say, is history.

 

And finally, let me end by saying this, your use of the word “terrorists” to describe those “shot by the SAS is very telling of your bias.

I’d be willing to wager handsomely that if a global poll were to be taken tomorrow asking who were more guilty of terrorizing the world, the Irish or the English, I know where I’d pu my few bob.


 

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23 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

I’d be willing to wager handsomely that if a global poll were to be taken tomorrow asking who were more guilty of terrorizing the world, the Irish or the English, I know where I’d pu my few bob.

Agree, history has the English as invaders, no different than many nations around the world, Spain, Portugal, France Germany, that was what it was 100 years ago, neither you or I can do anything about that.

Forget history, put your childhood aside ( there were far worse places in the world to grow up than Ireland, you're not unique  ) look at the now and tell me whether you want a pieceful United Ireland that has put its religeous and feudal feuds behind it, I do.

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12 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Agree, history has the English as invaders, no different than many nations around the world, Spain, Portugal, France Germany, that was what it was 100 years ago, neither you or I can do anything about that.

Forget history, put your childhood aside ( there were far worse places in the world to grow up than Ireland, you're not unique  ) look at the now and tell me whether you want a pieceful United Ireland that has put its religeous and feudal feuds behind it, I do.

again, you use wahataboutary.

Spain and France which you mentioned were in particular, very much an asset to us Irish in our struggle against British tyranny and I suppose Germany to a lesser extent. (You should study our collective history if you disagree )
 

And you want me to “forget history” 

Think about that for a moment because in a nutshell, forgetting history is after all how we repeat it, isn’t it?


 


 

Finally, I want a peaceful United Ireland

we already have a pieceful Ireland  :-(

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43 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

Finally, I want a peaceful United Ireland

we already have a pieceful Ireland  :-(

No you don't, other wise there would be no need for our discussion on the border down the sea issues nor have the EU constantly using the Irish Peace Agreement as a negotiating tool in the recent talks.

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8 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

No you don't, other wise there would be no need for our discussion on the border down the sea issues nor have the EU constantly using the Irish Peace Agreement as a negotiating tool in the recent talks.

Whoosh!

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13 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

No you don't, other wise there would be no need for our discussion on the border down the sea issues nor have the EU constantly using the Irish Peace Agreement as a negotiating tool in the recent talks.

This statement makes absolutely zero sense.

 

Any chance you could reword it?

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And Wayne, 

Your suggestion that we Irish “forget history” is really telling of your absolute ignorance of the subject of Ireland.

Earlier you criticized a poster for not being knowledgeable of British affairs regarding racism etc yet here you display irrefutable evidence of your complete and utter lack of understanding of Ireland and  British history of terrorizing of our island for hundreds of years.

You cannot walk a mile in any direction in Ireland without being confronted with the reminders of that atrocious period of our history.

From the large walls surrounding the great estates and mansions of the overlords to the names of places such as “the bloody hollow” or the graveyards dedicated to the poor souls starved to death in the genocidal years of black 47 and beyond. One only has to dig long enough in the fields to be reminded of the carnage of your compatriots. Personally, all I needed do as a child was look out my bedroom window to see the mass children’s graveyard of the unfortunates who were starved to death by your beloved British government. Think about that, mass graves of children who were willfully starved to death by your people, yet we are the “terrorists” in your opinion. Forgive me for not holding your opinion in high esteem. 

Laughably, you suggest we Irish should forget history, history such as Cromwell and his diabolical actions on our island, yet you choose to adorn Westminster with his statue.

 

Never forget that, before English/British interference and invasion, Ireland was a bastion of scholastic and poetic learning and knowledge. Then came the British who transformed the island from an island of “saints and scholars” to an island of peasants and illiterates. You all did your best to destroy our language and culture and then call us terrorists when we revolt.

One need only look at the transformation of Ireland since 1972 to see what the destroyed potential of the past 800 odd years was and is.

 

Forget history?
The world should forget British atrocities in Ireland no more than the world should forget the atrocities of the Nazis against the Jews for they were the same.

 

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38 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

Forget history?
The world should forget British atrocities in Ireland no more than the world should forget the atrocities of the Nazis against the Jews for they were the same.

So you are going to your grave with the mantra that 100 years ago the English did terrible things in your country. You then talk of the Nazis, which the English saved you from an almost certain loss of your own Irish language with German now the main mother tongue in Ireland. Could have been if the Brits and the Yanks hadn’t dug in and Hitler hadn’t made some pretty bad decisions, but that’s history.
 

One could raise the “history” card anywhere on the planet, but what are you going to do today, right now, other than talk of times 40 + years ago on SA. You live in another country, pay no taxes in NI and probably have lost the thread of what the young in Ireland are now discussing.

 Yep I guess talk of by gone times on SA is your limit.

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Just now, Waynemarlow said:

So you are going to your grave with the mantra that 100 years ago the English did terrible things in your country. You then talk of the Nazis, which the English saved you from an almost certain loss of your own Irish language with German now the main mother tongue in Ireland. Could have been if the Brits and the Yanks hadn’t dug in and Hitler hadn’t made some pretty bad decisions, but that’s history.
 

One could raise the “history” card anywhere on the planet, but what are you going to do today, right now, other than talk of times 40 + years ago on SA. You live in another country, pay no taxes in NI and probably have lost the thread of what the young in Ireland are now discussing.

 Yep I guess talk of by gone times on SA is your limit.

They say, if you give an Englishman enough rope, eventually he’ll hang himself ...

 

lol

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

So you are going to your grave with the mantra that 100 years ago the English did terrible things in your country. You then talk of the Nazis, which the English saved you from an almost certain loss of your own Irish language with German now the main mother tongue in Ireland. Could have been if the Brits and the Yanks hadn’t dug in and Hitler hadn’t made some pretty bad decisions, but that’s history.
 

One could raise the “history” card anywhere on the planet, but what are you going to do today, right now, other than talk of times 40 + years ago on SA. You live in another country, pay no taxes in NI and probably have lost the thread of what the young in Ireland are now discussing.

 Yep I guess talk of by gone times on SA is your limit.

Your ignorance is astounding but to be expected from an indoctrinated people.

Ye did win one World Cup, I’ll give ye that but you need to Educate yourself you ejit...

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Hitler hadn’t made some pretty bad decisions, but that’s history.

Yup the USSR had the man power that contained that flank at great cost in human lives and probably cost Hitler his domination of Europe including Ireland.

 

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4 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

I’d really like a link to that if possible because Even by British standards, it sounds unbelievably arrogant 

Sounds as though you need to walk away from the keyboard, if you goner chew on that tonight then it’s not going to be fun times in your household.

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Just now, Waynemarlow said:

Yup the USSR had the man power that contained that flank at great cost in human lives and probably cost Hitler his domination of Europe including Ireland.

 

Look up “lend lease” mate.

 

Britain would have been hammered but for the commie bastids.

Heck, even Hitler let ye off the hook at yer weakest for some unknown reason.

 

You lot were on the winning side alright but ye didn’t win the war.

In fact, you lot were the biggest losers on the winning side. After all, the empire was thankfully ended and ye were relegated to obedient servants of the US as the Suez canal incident revealed. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Sounds as though you need to walk away from the keyboard, if you goner chew on that tonight then it’s not going to be fun times in your household.

 

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Wayne is an excellent example of an ultra Brexiter. Someone totally and without compromise committed to a policy he/she doesn't remotely understand.

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1 minute ago, LeoV said:

W is an excellent example of an ultra Brexiter. Someone totally and without compromise committed to a policy he/she doesn't remotely understand.

Aye,

but you gotta envy the bollix his simplicity.

 

 

lol

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1 minute ago, LeoV said:

W is an excellent example of an ultra Brexiter. Someone totally and without compromise committed to a policy he/she doesn't remotely understand.

Do you mind?

Cheers,

               W.

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23 hours ago, cms said:

UK went one way and EU another. By mid summer we will all be in the same situation probably.

My money is on the EU.

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2 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

EU constantly using the Irish Peace Agreement as a negotiating tool in the recent talks.

You urgently need to go to a doctor. Ask for a brain replacement. 

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23 hours ago, gewoon ik said:
On 4/7/2021 at 6:41 PM, Waynemarlow said:

You are correct, there's no sunny uplands for anybody in Europe for the forseeable future, its thus not mentioned.

Thanks for the non-answer.

Wayne still doing his deflection answers I see.

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10 hours ago, LeoV said:

NI riots, just teething problems...

Reverse of Brexit, impossible.
Move the border to mainland Ireland, will upset another group.

Now we can see if BJ is a statesman or not regarding the tougher aspects of Brexit.
There is no solution other then compromise, hard work and building trust with all parties.

Boris is absolutely fucked if he's depending on building trust, only his party, mates and Wayne trust him.

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9 hours ago, WGWarburton said:
10 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

So any where else in the U.K. if you start burning buses and injuring police by rioting, you get thrown in the slammer. Do these rioters get special dispensation for being Northern Irish or treated just as ordinary criminals ? 

I take it you weren't around during the 70s+early-80s when the British government made strenuous efforts to portray the Troubles as criminal activity, rather than political?

 Withdrawal of special status? Dirty protests? Hunger strikes? 100,000 attendees at Bobby Sands' funeral?

 Sadly, wilful ignorance by either MPs or voters will not change history. It seems memories in Ireland are longer than those in England... it's a pity no-one warned that this might happen.

Cheers, 

              W.

Wayne's an immigrant, he wasn't around during those times and his knowledge of history is woeful to say the least.

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41 minutes ago, mad said:

My money is on the EU.

You better not put money on it. UK will be hard to overtake or even level up too.

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For Sea Warrior and other people with a brain (not Whyne), there is a Boulevard Bobby Sands in Le Mans. We have long standing family friends who live near there, and many years ago, they rang to warn us about the name being chosen shortly before we visited, and drove down said Boulevard. Drinks were taken and an open discussion ensued during which French and Scots saw pretty much eye to eye on the subject, as both were open minded and interested in the how and why.

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

You better not put money on it. UK will be hard to overtake or even level up too.

I'll believe it when i see it.

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4 minutes ago, cms said:

For Sea Warrior and other people with a brain (not Whyne), there is a Boulevard Bobby Sands in Le Mans. We have long standing family friends who live near there, and many years ago, they rang to warn us about the name being chosen shortly before we visited, and drove down said Boulevard. Drinks were taken and an open discussion ensued during which French and Scots saw pretty much eye to eye on the subject, as both were open minded and interested in the how and why.

Interesting, thanks.

Quote

Europe[edit]

220px-Bobby_sands_mural_in_belfast320.jp
 
A memorial mural to Sands along Falls Road, Belfast

In Europe, there were widespread protests after Sands' death. 5,000 Milanese students burned the Union Flag and chanted "Freedom for Ulster" during a march.[5] The British Consulate at Ghent was raided.[5] Thousands marched in Paris behind huge portraits of Sands, to chants of "the IRA will conquer".[5]

In the Portuguese Parliament, the opposition stood for Sands.[5] In Oslo, demonstrators threw a tomato at Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom, but missed. (One 28-year-old assailant said he had actually aimed for what he claimed was a smirking British soldier).[5][43] In the Soviet Union, Pravda described it as "another tragic page in the grim chronicle of oppression, discrimination, terror, and violence" in Ireland. Russian fans of Bobby Sands published a translation of the "Back Home in Derry" song ("На Родину в Дерри" in Russian).[5] Many French towns and cities have streets named after Sands, including Nantes, Saint-Étienne, Le Mans, Vierzon, and Saint-Denis.[44] The conservative-aligned West German newspaper Die Welt took a negative view towards Sands.[5]

 

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18 minutes ago, cms said:

For Sea Warrior and other people with a brain (not Whyne), there is a Boulevard Bobby Sands in Le Mans. We have long standing family friends who live near there, and many years ago, they rang to warn us about the name being chosen shortly before we visited, and drove down said Boulevard. Drinks were taken and an open discussion ensued during which French and Scots saw pretty much eye to eye on the subject, as both were open minded and interested in the how and why.

Honestly, I had no idea and had to google it.

 

As for the Scots, I remember being in Australia shortly after the second warrington bombing in 93 and being attacked by a Scottish chap for simply being Irish.

Ironically, my flat mate at the time, a gordie was very understanding.

 

Strange times they were and let’s hope they stay in the past. 

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