Jump to content

Fastnet 2021 finish in Cherbourg? Zoot alors! What must the RORC be thinking


Recommended Posts

Shocked at TE's news that RORC might be announcing 2021 Fastnet finish moving from Plymouth to Cherbourg on Tuesday.

Destroying all that history for what? Filthy lucre no doubt. 

I just can't believe it.

TE has been pretty accurate on everything else up to now though. Nobody else is out there anymore saying how it is, keeping their ear to the ground and ferreting out the stories (except Richard Gladwell of course). Yachting journalism has been completely neutered and eviscerated by free PR and pictures pumped out by event organisers and teams plus of course publishers unwilling to pay for quality content. 

TE has been consistent in breaking the news. Who else was talking about problems with the canting foil mechanism for the AC75's  INEOS mast delamination, the Laser Class meltdown, World Sailing shenanigans etc. Keep it up Tom!

As for the Fastnet 2021 is the last of Rolex's five event contract announced in 2013. I would be surprised that they have not negotiated an extension and if so I can see how Cherbourg might be more attractive than Plymouth. At least the spectacular French ultime trimarans might hang around for the prize giving. A major French coup would be perfect post Brexit and no doubt ironically loads of EEC funding would be on offer to the city. Can't see UK government offering cash to Plymouth.

Let's hope TE is barking up the wrong tree even though the odds are against that!

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 234
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

The last three Fastnet races i have done, we have bailed out of Plymouth as fast as possible,  if we have stopped at all. It is a shit place to finish a race that has 300 boats...and I grew up there.

So Fastnet is doing it's own Brexit 

As a boat based in Hamble, Cherbourg is closer to get back, ferry transport is far more reliable and probably cheaper than getting a train from Plymouth, the beer is probably better and who can’t resi

Posted Images

3 hours ago, winchfodder said:

Shocked at TE's news that RORC might be announcing 2021 Fastnet finish moving from Plymouth to Cherbourg on Tuesday.

Destroying all that history for what? Filthy lucre no doubt. 

I just can't believe it.

The post race memories are pretty dim, despite doing four Fastnets in a row 1995 to  2001.

The regatta village and atmosphere was pretty ordinary for one of the major ocean races in the world, when compared to, say S2H, Constitution Dock and “The Taste”.

So unless things have changed dramatically in Plymouth, the French love their yachting more than the Poms and will put on a really good show.....at least the restaurants in the town would be a lot better. I have had many happy post race times in France....

And then there is the extra publicity and the filthy lucre......

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

What's the problem Fodder, you're not a stuffy olde English expat, are you?

IMHO, it's great to see the RORC's forward thinking in the grand scheme of international yacht racing. Not just a gentlemen's club in St. James's Place, but a super active race organizing club for all offshore racers. Not sure if Eddy Warden Owen is still CEO, he must be getting on a bit, but he surely is not the typical conservative yachtie, and has been, and maybe still is, a top racing helmsman himself. They always had many foreign members and committee members too, and frogs in particular, and many races have traditionally finished in France. Always good for great seafood meal, and to stock up on wines.

They have already done so well to attract the top French boats in the Fastnet Race, and it only seems a logical and a commendable idea to finish the race in France. Other factors may have played a role, like not being given enough space and support in Plymouth, and even a kick in the butt of stupid Brexiteers, dunno, but tradition should not stand in the way of progress!

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I can understand the arguments for dropping Plymouth . The post race party there has never been the greatest advertisement for the race. Plymouth has made major progress in recent years. The historic Barbican has been complemented by the superb restoration of the Royal William Yard and reading up on TripAdvisor the eateries around town much improved. The problem is that the race village is located in neither place and instead over the water at Mountbatten. If somehow the berthing logistics could be organised better then the RORC would probably not be looking at such a radical solution. 

The French participation has always been strong and in recent years not only produced even more class winners but added the specactle of the newsworthy Open 60's and Ultime trimarans. Indeed the French have also adopted Le Fastnet as one of their favoured offshore racing marks.

But surely the race village logistics and the lure of EEC funded cash on offer from Cherbourg should not put an end to nearly 100 years (1925 I believe) of history. 

There have been discussions in the past about bringing the race all the way back to Cowes, saving the movement of race office, gear and supporters. However the extra distance would place demands on precious time and somehow the thought of actually having a destination, a port to sail to, makes it more of a voyage of discovery and purpose. Think Sydney-Hobart or Newport-Bermuda. 

Apart from the history and making a fitting biennial end to Cowes Week (and in the good old days the culmination of the Admiral's Cup), it is the very nature of the Fastnet that has made it arguably the greatest offshore race. The navigational and weather challenges are ever changing with a difficult passage out of the Solent and past the tidal gates along the English Channel before a dash across the Irish Sea to the iconic rock. Even then there is still the Scillie isles to pass and another coastal minefield around Lands End, the Lizard with its treacherous Manacle Rocks, finally ending with site of the Eddystone light and Plymouth Sound once the home of Francis Drake's fleet and the Mayflower settlers. 

Yes, I can see the RORC's desire to make progress and financial inducements are always persuasive. If TE's information is indeed true, then I am sure it has been one of the most difficult decisions the club officers have ever had to make, even more agonising than deciding to allow electronic navigational aids!

I guess by adding the Eddystone lighthouse as a mark before Cherbourg, forcing the fleet to  keep close to the Engish coast on its return, just about keeps all the elements that make the Fastnet such a great race on the water.

Olde racing fart I might be, but somehow i fear it will never be quite the same. 

Plus ça change as they say.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

What a great idea - I think the CYCA will be right on this - lets' finish the 2020 Rolex Sydney Hobart Race in Auckland, or maybe Brisbane or even *gasp* Adelaide - whoever bids the highest.  OK, we might need to drop Hobart from the name, and all that Jon Illingworth crap about the first race will become meaningless, but one must move with the times.  History?  Bah!  Sponsorship is what it's all about chaps.  Without the sponsors, the show could not go on, you know.

And a different course means Wild Oats can set a new record - Hooray!

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

This is something that's been talked about for a small while now. It seems it's picking up momentum again following conversations with Rolex and the fact that they will not be continuing their sponsorship of the Fastnet beyond 2021. 

I don't see Cherbourg being hugely different to Plymouth if I'm being honest. Okay the city will throw municipal money at the event however in terms of the infrastructure and the positioning of boats upon completion of the race its much the same. 

What it is though is a sorry state of affairs for British offshore racing... If this is announced then is this the final nail in the coffin? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Recidivist said:

What a great idea - I think the CYCA will be right on this - lets' finish the 2020 Rolex Sydney Hobart Race in Auckland, or maybe Brisbane or even *gasp* Adelaide - whoever bids the highest.  OK, we might need to drop Hobart from the name, and all that Jon Illingworth crap about the first race will become meaningless, but one must move with the times.  History?  Bah!  Sponsorship is what it's all about chaps.  Without the sponsors, the show could not go on, you know.

And a different course means Wild Oats can set a new record - Hooray!

 

Exactly. Down with history. I am sure Melbourne would be able to bid more than Hobart. Forget the spectacle of sailing into Storm Bay with the pinnacle of rocks, the lottery of the Derwent finish and the QLD. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh spare us the drama. 
 

It isn’t as if the dash from Fastnet to Plymouth is dramatically different from Cherbourg. 
 

the event will be fine whether it is moved or not - but this whole “tradition and history” shit without regard for actual on the ground/over the water conditions is absurd. 
 

plymouth needs a kick in the pants to step up. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

After thinking about it, I'm somehow surprised.

Not that the R.O.R.C may change the finishing port - with today's boats lengthening the course makes sense to me -  but that they choose Cherbourg.

This means that the last "leg" throws a potentially tired large fleet right into the heavy Channel traffic.

Probably requires the addition of one or more marks to make sure that the Channel crossing is at 90° to the traffic lanes.

I'm sure both UK and French traffic authorities will look twice at this.

Today.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, moody frog said:

After thinking about it, I'm somehow surprised.

Not that the R.O.R.C may change the finishing port - with today's boats lengthening the course makes sense to me -  but that they choose Cherbourg.

This means that the last "leg" throws a potentially tired large fleet right into the heavy Channel traffic.

Probably requires the addition of one or more marks to make sure that the Channel crossing is at 90° to the traffic lanes.

I'm sure both UK and French traffic authorities will look twice at this.

Today.jpg

Agreed. Especially if you think how well traffic separation schemes in the Irish sea had to be observed in the past:

ru5.jpg

I hope they have something else in mind. Cherbourg would be...unwise.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Better than Cherbourg would be St Malo.

Pretty much the same distance and clear of the traffic separation zones and a lot of shipping traffic.

The ambience and atmosphere and choice of restaurants and bars would be much better than Cherbourg as well..... the only problem being that you would have to lock in/out unless they clear Anse des Sablons for the event.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

St Malo is a terrible choice because if you arrive outside of a tidal gate you can't get in. It works as a departure point because they can plan the departure out the "canal".

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Confirmed, next two editions will finish in Cherborug. Rorc will continue to work with Pymouth to develop facilities to keep their options open for 2025.

The press release strongly suggests a higher cap on entries than the 340 historically for next year. Should be spectacular.

A bold call but the right one in my opinion. Ever since the finish village was moved across the river in Plymouth it has been crap to embarrasing and there simply wasn't space.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I had the impression in the past that the number of boats allowed to start was limited due to security and safety at sea. I saw some of the video streaming from RORC where they gave the impression that one of the reasons to change the finishing line to Cherbourg would be the harbour facilities. In the same sentence, RORC stated that over time they hopped to allow more boats to take part. The safety and rescue aspect would be in the Irish sea. I am really struggling to understand their arguments.

Let's take the opportunity to pick up some French wine in Cherbourg for a race or two. They can always move it back, as they say.

Fastnet is an institution. The French must have worked very long and hard for this, and they will make this a great success. TV coverage, entrance into Cherbourg will never be as grand. They will turn the square and harbour of Chergourge into something you have never seen before. My prediction: "Fastnet will become French, a united Ireland will become an important part EU, yachts under the English flag will still be allowed to enter the race."

I cannot make up my mind on this!

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/24/2019 at 1:38 PM, Matagi said:

Agreed. Especially if you think how well traffic separation schemes in the Irish sea had to be observed in the past:

ru5.jpg

I hope they have something else in mind. Cherbourg would be...unwise.

What about logistics for the teams. Handy parking your car.
And the upcoming new entrants from France topsailing circuits, 
The Ultime's, Imoca's. Last Fastnet had 150  boats on the waiting list.
Clubracer.eu news

Link to post
Share on other sites

As a boat based in Hamble, Cherbourg is closer to get back, ferry transport is far more reliable and probably cheaper than getting a train from Plymouth, the beer is probably better and who can’t resist the temptation of trying to win the first ‘Le Fastnet’

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, JL92S said:

As a boat based in Hamble, Cherbourg is closer to get back, ferry transport is far more reliable and probably cheaper than getting a train from Plymouth, the beer is probably better and who can’t resist the temptation of trying to win the first ‘Le Fastnet’

It is now. Will be different then. And not because of the train, unless they sort things out. Douaniers will have a field day, too.

Oh, and it will be wine, bien sûr.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Giving you the like there purely for "Le Fastnet" ;)

Don't get me wrong, I'll certainly be trying to be there on the first ever start of Le Rolex Fastnet... but

I think logistically the race will be harder now you have to get the ferry / fly or deliver home, theres no car share possibility, ferry prices will be peak / sold out at the end of the race, so getting gear back/forth will most likely cost more money, when there were previously cheaper options.

Brexit is likely to throw some kind of spanner in the works, the RYA doesn't know what the paperwork will look like, the red diesel jokes are already starting, and there will be the issue of boats technically being temporarily imported as they will no longer be union goods...

I'm sure it will all work out and be fine, they will work to make it a roaring success I'm sure, but I can see some teams being put off.. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

.....I'm sure it will all work out and be fine, they will work to make it a roaring success I'm sure, but I can see some teams being put off.. 

Plenty of people waiting in the queue..... It might take a whole day to sell out instead of just 4 minutes 17 seconds like the 2019 race.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting that the RORC are reserving the right to hold the centenary Fastnet in 2025 in Plymouth. 

Maybe Plymouth should be asking for payment in 2025 out of the monies that the RORC earn from the €1 million EEC regional funding have Cherbourg have managed to raise. 

Or just set up their own Fastnet from Cowes to Plymouth with the Royal London or RYS and the RWYC.

The RWYC already gave their OSTAR running successfully in opposition to the Transat that now goes from Brest to Charleston so is a bit of a travesty compared with Plymouth to Newport  RI.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

Plenty of people waiting in the queue..... It might take a whole day to sell out instead of just 4 minutes 17 seconds like the 2019 race.

For sure, lets hope the demand continues and we see even more entries for the new "Le Fastnet" :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Interesting that the RORC are reserving the right to hold the centenary Fastnet in 2025 in Plymouth. 

Maybe Plymouth should be asking for payment in 2025 out of the monies that the RORC earn from the €1 million EEC regional funding have Cherbourg have managed to raise. 

Or just set up their own Fastnet from Cowes to Plymouth with the Royal London or RYS and the RWYC.

The RWYC already gave their OSTAR running successfully in opposition to the Transat that now goes from Brest to Charleston so is a bit of a travesty compared with Plymouth to Newport  RI.


With all due respect, I think you're completely missing the center of gravity if you think Plymouth can dictate terms to the RORC.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The French will no doubt find ways round any customs or similar issues. They sign up to the spirit then interpret the detail. No doubt the post race aspect of the race will be 100% better and may even bring back some old memories. Plymouth has screwed up or simply been unable to find solutions to "welcoming" so many boats. Cherbourg can do it. Would not be surprised to see Brittany Ferries pitching in with support and deals, particularly now they have effectively taken over Condor Ferries. The small airport is close to town but no regular flights. OK for private planes or charters.

All the class winners are French anyway.....

Is it a "good" decision? Time alone will tell. I seriously doubt there will be any form of boycott. More likely increasing popular. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, spennig said:

Simple really, in 2025 you just make Plymouth breakwater a mark of the course on the way back, record times for kicks and have the real finish and party in Cherbourg. Every one happy, mainly.

This has both pros and cons.

Pro - keep the tradition and record the times over the original course.... 

Cons - soldiers course from Plymouth to Cherbourg leg(relatively speaking ), compared with the routing options of Scilly Isles to Cherbourg.....

As to the whole move the finish elsewhere; well, Need time and caffeine to digest the whole Tradition & History vs. Progress and inevitable change......

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's all about the dosh.  More accommodations, means more entrants, means more money.

“The race has grown steadily over the past two decades and more and more people want to take part. We have had to limit entries in recent years because of berthing constraints, but Cherbourg offers significant additional berthing and improved facilities for competitors, so we will be able to take a larger number of entries and give more sailors the opportunity to compete in this very special race,” continued Anderson. 

@LB 15 clearly in this instance, you're just putting the pipe in your mouth! 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Hitchhiker said:

It's all about the dosh.  More accommodations, means more entrants, means more money.

“The race has grown steadily over the past two decades and more and more people want to take part. We have had to limit entries in recent years because of berthing constraints, but Cherbourg offers significant additional berthing and improved facilities for competitors, so we will be able to take a larger number of entries and give more sailors the opportunity to compete in this very special race,” continued Anderson. 

@LB 15 clearly in this instance, you're just putting the pipe in your mouth! 

Wasn't the entry limit always more because of safety and surveillance at sea than moorings at port of arrival?

I think that one just got swept under the rug.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/24/2019 at 9:20 PM, moody frog said:

After thinking about it, I'm somehow surprised.

Not that the R.O.R.C may change the finishing port - with today's boats lengthening the course makes sense to me -  but that they choose Cherbourg.

This means that the last "leg" throws a potentially tired large fleet right into the heavy Channel traffic.

Probably requires the addition of one or more marks to make sure that the Channel crossing is at 90° to the traffic lanes.

I'm sure both UK and French traffic authorities will look twice at this.

Today.jpg

Maybe around Lands End, a mark off Plymouth or Prawle Point then leave Alderney or Guernsey to Port and into Cherbourg.  Or Lands end straight around Guernsey then Cherbourg.  

Either way, I reckon it's a winner

Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

Maybe around Lands End, a mark off Plymouth or Prawle Point then leave Alderney or Guernsey to Port and into Cherbourg.  Or Lands end straight around Guernsey then Cherbourg.  

Either way, I reckon it's a winner

Yes.  This sharpens up the shipping crossing a bit. Not 90° but nearly.  At least two more tidal gates, which will make your already tired naviguesser sweat some more. Plus the rock hopping up the French coast.

The nightmare in a light race will be kedging off CH1 for a whole tide.  In the fog.  But, hey we did it off the Eddystone in 77 and 81, and the 81 & 83 Channel races too.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, DickDastardly said:

Maybe around Lands End, a mark off Plymouth or Prawle Point then leave Alderney or Guernsey to Port and into Cherbourg.  Or Lands end straight around Guernsey then Cherbourg.  

Either way, I reckon it's a winner

Neither of those is 90° to the traffic -to please the traffic authorities enough,- I reckon a buoy North to Cherbourg CH1 which would be the western side of the Solent as in the Cherbourg race. .....We'll see

Link to post
Share on other sites

"The Royal Ocean Racing Club (RORC), organisers of the Rolex Fastnet Race, will be changing the finish location for the 2021 and 2023 editions from Plymouth, UK to Cherbourg, France."

No shit? And what is [are] the RORC gonna do when the UK exits the EU? Require all competitors to carry their passports and have visas to enter France? Or are they betting that Brexit isn't going to happen?

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, moody frog said:

Neither of those is 90° to the traffic -to please the traffic authorities enough,- I reckon a buoy North to Cherbourg CH1 which would be the western side of the Solent as in the Cherbourg race. .....We'll see

I imagine they will not want to introduce Portland Bill for a second time. Start Point to Hanois is a pretty good 90 degree crossing angle. Plus fun rocks to pick through on the W side of Guernsey like the Dinard race.

Feel a bit sorry for Dartmouth Regatta which used to pick up a good crowd of Fastnet boats breaking the delivery home.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, A CheeseHead said:

No shit? And what is [are] the RORC gonna do when the UK exits the EU? Require all competitors to carry their passports and have visas to enter France? Or are they betting that Brexit isn't going to happen?

Most / all skippers would already have crew carry passports for a channel race or Fastnet? Would have been a bit screwed the year we bailed out to Crosshaven otherwise.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, JL92S said:

Yeah we always carry passports and a credit card with us just in case, in 5 rorc seasons I’ve never been asked to show a passport in France...

OK, but .... should the UK leave the EU, you can count on having to show it in 2021 and 2023, and may even need a visa.  Good luck getting ashore for the post-race party without one.  :angry:

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The shipping lanes problem is a real one.  Go all the way to a mark off Bournemouth and go due South?  Go South from the Bishop to Les Hanois and rock-crawl?  And what about the tidal gate at CH1?  I've spent many an hour kedged there waiting for the turn.  It used to be a real mess with 150 boats in a Channel Race.  300+ at the end of a Fastnet with everyone tired and fed-up?

EW-O did all those races back in the day, and so I think he really needs to re-think this one.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, A CheeseHead said:

OK, but .... should the UK leave the EU, you can count on having to show it in 2021 and 2023, and may even need a visa.  Good luck getting ashore for the post-race party without one.  :angry:

Seems pretty unlikely. The UK is not in Schengen, we already need to show a passport to visit France and no one has ever checked mine in 10 years of racing across the pond.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In the late 90's I was working for a school in the Hamble. I did over 70 crossings of the channel in a 3 year period. (Australian passport holder, UK resident on British flagged vessels) and only had to show my passport once when leaving France on a ferry.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

^^^^^ This. Probably just as many crossings over 30 odd years, but my experience also... Arrive and leave on a yacht, they don’t want to know.

Got it.  Understand it.  Know there are a substantial number of folks who have traveled & sailed to & fro between the UK and the EU.  That's history.

History ain't the issue.  History isn't the least bit helpful, for the UK signed onto the ECSC in 1954, joined the EU in 1972 (officially by Act of Parliament in 1/1/73).  That was 46 years ago.  Now that's highly likely to come to an end, and odds are fairly high that the French will not be all that charitable towards Perfidious Albion.

So, rather than nattering on about how many crossings one has made, what do you lot, who actually live there (as I do not) have to say about the future?  Or is that to painful to confront?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Being Australian passport holders, we both needed visas at the time to enter France. As you are clearly a history buff, you should know why.....I could tell you a few stories about French visas and deportation, don’t ask me how I know. But I never had a problem on a yacht, with or without a visa.

The point was that was that the French authorities are pretty laid back about yachties. Given the enthusiasm and encouragement for yachting in France, I would be very surprised if  the French made it harder for anyone doing a Fastnet finishing in Cherbourg than it is now......

As far as entry into France for US citizens is concerned, I would worry more about a Trump re-election that Brexit.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, A CheeseHead said:

So, rather than nattering on about how many crossings one has made, what do you lot, who actually live there (as I do not) have to say about the future?  Or is that to painful to confront?

There is an excellent thread on that, if I may say so, in Sailing Anarchy. In case you missed it, and BTW Mad lives there:

7 hours ago, mad said:

So you were the fucker that mixed my halyards up!! :P  

A good bowman pre-crosses them knowing which order they’ll be peeled in, especially for a short race.... it’s called predicting the call from fantasy land (anywhere behind the pit) 

Get a couple of smart drivers in and you and Jack sit at the back of the bus and organise the restaurant, and Leo as navigator,   How’s that sound? 
 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Sidecar said:

Being Australian passport holders, we both needed visas at the time to enter France. As you are clearly a history buff, you should know why.....I could tell you a few stories about French visas and deportation, don’t ask me how I know. But I never had a problem on a yacht, with or without a visa.

The point was that was that the French authorities are pretty laid back about yachties. Given the enthusiasm and encouragement for yachting in France, I would be very surprised if  the French made it harder for anyone doing a Fastnet finishing in Cherbourg than it is now......

As far as entry into France for US citizens is concerned, I would worry more about a Trump re-election that Brexit.

If Trump is re-elected, I'll have a damned sight more to worry about than getting into France.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

There is an excellent thread on that, if I may say so, in Sailing Anarchy. In case you missed it, and BTW Mad lives there:

 

Too right.  I did miss it, and a good thing.  More political pissing contests.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/23/2019 at 10:05 AM, winchfodder said:

Shocked at TE's news that RORC might be announcing 2021 Fastnet finish moving from Plymouth to Cherbourg on Tuesday.

Destroying all that history for what? Filthy lucre no doubt. 

I just can't believe it.

Winch you really have to be the dumbest cunt on earth to start this thread ...over what FFS?...the RORC admitting reality?

22 hours ago, A CheeseHead said:

No shit? And what is [are] the RORC gonna do when the UK exits the EU? 

And Cheese you mate are in serious need of fuckin oxygen. Brexit yes or no is fuckin irelevant, the Union is a goner..it's Little Britain now...with them all wanting to be the only gay in the village.

Like dial up the NOR for the next "Around Britain and Ireland Race" in 2022. Well guess what you get?

It is fucking now already being called the "Around Republic of Scotland, the 26+6 Counties Republic of Ireland, Republic of Wales & London Greater Area Race" or the "ARoSRoIRoWLGAR"

That's two T-Shirts just to fit the fucking race name in.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

Winch you really have to be the dumbest cunt on earth to start this thread ...over what FFS?...the RORC admitting reality?

And Cheese you mate are in serious need of fuckin oxygen. Brexit yes or no is fuckin irelevant, the Union is a goner..it's Little Britain now...with them all wanting to be the only gay on the villiage.

Like dial up the NOR for the next "Around Britain and Ireland Race" in 2022. Well guess what?

It is fucking called the "Around Republic of Scotland, the 26+6 Counties Republic of Ireland, Republic of Wales & London Greater Area Race" or the "ARoSRoIRoWLGAR"

That's two T-Shirts just to fit the fucking race name in.

Got it.  The  Irish are going to unify against their common enemy.  Ditto the Scots.  Are the Welsh getting all restive again?  Oh, and it won't be Little Britain.  Maybe Little England.  If they're lucky.

So what's left, Mercia reclaiming what was theirs?   If Wessex rises, I'm going to have to reconsider my leaving the Commercial Square Bonfire Society after 15 years of carrying torches and blowing things up.

At least we Yanks might be capable of electing ourselves out of the hole we're presently in.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Isn’t it the American thanksgiving right now? Shouldn’t you be enjoying friends and family and company and food and beverage. 

In approximately 30 minutes we shall be joining my sibs and their spouses (our children are elsewhere, conducting themselves as independent adults, for they are all approaching - or exceeding - 30 years).  After a couple of hours of talking bollox (we do that, y'know) we shall make short work of a turkey and several pies.  HTH.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  @A CheeseHead If finishing British yacht yacht races in France/EC is going to be a problem, RORC will be totally fucked.

Half their traditional offshore race programme has French finishes. St Malo/Dinard, Cherbourg and Le Havre races for starters. And the French won’t turn up for any races either, decimating fleet size.

And then there’s the Ushant race: http://www.rorc.org/news/news-2016/a-new-ocean-race

Presumably only in non  Fastnet years, it will be a tougher albeit shorter race than the Fastnet and probably explains why RORC didn’t choose St Malo for the new Fastnet finish.

Edited by Sidecar
Link to post
Share on other sites

Related image

Eddie W-O did plenty of Fastnets back in the day, but I wonder if he's unfolded Admiralty chart 2675 recently and had a good squint at it.

Getting several hundred boats across the Western Approaches shipping lanes to Cherbourg will be a bit of a problem.  Where do you turn right?  Off Swanage?  Or at the Bishop?  And if the latter, where do you turn left?  Ushant?

This is plain bollocks.  There was always a restriction on fleet numbers purely for safety reasons, not because of facilities in Plymouth.  Has that been forgotten?

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, P_Wop said:

There was always a restriction on fleet numbers purely for safety reasons, not because of facilities in Plymouth.  Has that been forgotten?

But how many years ago did that restriction go in? How much has safety equipment, comms equipment, tracking, rescue equipment improved since then?

In reality, while the limit was originally due to safety, it could have easily been raised years ago if it wasnt for a  lack of space in Plymouth.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Quagers said:

But how many years ago did that restriction go in? How much has safety equipment, comms equipment, tracking, rescue equipment improved since then?

In reality, while the limit was originally due to safety, it could have easily been raised years ago if it wasnt for a  lack of space in Plymouth.

Yes, probably right re safety stuff.  We have AIS and all sorts of other stuff now, so fleet numbers could possibly increase.  The authorities of course would have a say.

Plym moorings and facilities. Many ports do a one-time dock increase and shore stuff for one-time events.  Crosshaven, Tarbert... Not beyond the capability of Plym surely?

Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, P_Wop said:

Plym moorings and facilities. Many ports do a one-time dock increase and shore stuff for one-time events.  Crosshaven, Tarbert... Not beyond the capability of Plym surely?

I suspect they were asked and said no / didn't want to chip in enough to make it possible. RORC already operates at a moderate loss even in Fastnet years.

If you want to build something temporary, Portland is huge and well located?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sailed and raced on both sides of the waters. I personally fear the Scilly Island TSS far more then Cherbourg one. Far more unpredictable courses from big boats and risk if fog rolling in quickly. Anyway a whole fleet of single-handed Figs are no problem to let them cross the channel a few times in a leg. Thinking of latest hits I recall only Sobedo years ago.
 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like some opposition lining up! 

Several RORC members want to take up the change made by the executive without full consultation with the membership at the AGM on Monday 2nd.

At the other end of the country rumours are that a club is planning an 'original' Fasnet from Cowes around the rock and back to Plymouth after cowes week next year 2020. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Looks like some opposition lining up! 

Several RORC members want to take up the change made by the executive without full consultation with the membership at the AGM on Monday 2nd.

At the other end of the country rumours are that a club is planning an 'original' Fasnet from Cowes around the rock and back to Plymouth after cowes week next year 2020. 

Seven years back, Eddie Warden Owen approved my application for RORC. Two fellow friends and members recommended me, after a G&T with Eddie both my wife and I were family members. It was a bit more than that, I had done around 3K miles of RORC races before I submitted my application. 

Eddie is a great fellow. He is a good CEO and ambassador for RORC. He is wrong moving Fastnet to Cherbourg. Fellow sailors like to sail, we are not into politics. Fastnet is an institution, saying that it can be developed and improved. Moving the finishing line across the channel is a step too fare. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Mogle said:

Seven years back, Eddie Warden Owen approved my application for RORC. Two fellow friends and members recommended me, after a G&T with Eddie both my wife and I were family members. It was a bit more than that, I had done around 3K miles of RORC races before I submitted my application. 

Eddie is a great fellow. He is a good CEO and ambassador for RORC. He is wrong moving Fastnet to Cherbourg. Fellow sailors like to sail, we are not into politics. Fastnet is an institution, saying that it can be developed and improved. Moving the finishing line across the channel is a step too fare. 

I agree. The reason for the change is money. RORC seems to be going into negative cash flow. Still that should not be a reason to change a great race. There is plenty of space in Plymouth for the fleet. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, winchfodder said:

At the other end of the country rumours are that a club is planning an 'original' Fasnet from Cowes around the rock and back to Plymouth after cowes week next year 2020. 

RORC appears to think that it owns the word 'Fastnet' and aggressively defends against others that want to use it (hence the SORC 'round the rock race').

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Snowden said:

RORC appears to think that it owns the word 'Fastnet' and aggressively defends against others that want to use it (hence the SORC 'round the rock race').

Therein lies the irony of this thread. Fasnet Rock is not even in UK waters.

Called Carraig Aonair in Irish it is the most southerly point of Ireland. Known as "Ireland's Teardrop", because the last thing 19th-century Irish emigrants saw as they sailed starving to North America after being fucked over by the Brits.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, P_Wop said:

Yes, probably right re safety stuff.  We have AIS and all sorts of other stuff now, so fleet numbers could possibly increase.  The authorities of course would have a say.

 

It's not a question of what the boats have, it's a question of what the RNLI and others have as a rescue capability and that was what determined the max entry number.   Now I rather think that the current S&R resources are probably less than back in the day with assorted cuts and budgets squeeze in all areas.

Anyway, it's something that should be addressed by the RORC if it hasn't already, and at the very least they should now have a new max entry number agreed with S&R both sides of the channel to deal with their respective areas. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Snowden said:

RORC appears to think that it owns the word 'Fastnet' and aggressively defends against others that want to use it (hence the SORC 'round the rock race').

Surely any historic rights the RORC might claim to the name is for a race from Cowes to Plymouth via the Fastnet rock.

Anyway I think the first race was run by the RWYC before the RORC existed, so the rights should revert to the RWYC if the course is changed. 

And in the early years it was run annually so 2020 would be fine.

As for the arguments about limiting entries I am sure this was definitely the result of issues over safety after the 1979 storm as Hughw states. It was never a question of mooring space in Plymouth as EWO and the Commodore are now claiming. Shame on them!

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, hughw said:

It's not a question of what the boats have, it's a question of what the RNLI and others have as a rescue capability and that was what determined the max entry number.   Now I rather think that the current S&R resources are probably less than back in the day with assorted cuts and budgets squeeze in all areas.

Anyway, it's something that should be addressed by the RORC if it hasn't already, and at the very least they should now have a new max entry number agreed with S&R both sides of the channel to deal with their respective areas. 

Exactly.  FYI I wrote to EWO yesterday, so will let you know what transpires.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Amongst French racers the one worry is an arrival off Casquets and Cherbourg peninsula from the west. For level rating classes, no real problem, but for a handicap fleet the potential huge gains and losses from the tidal gate can destroy fairness. The consensus here seems towards a mark of some description on the north side of the shipping lanes and an approach to the finish at between 120 and 180 degrees.

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, cms said:

Amongst French racers the one worry is an arrival off Casquets and Cherbourg peninsula from the west. For level rating classes, no real problem, but for a handicap fleet the potential huge gains and losses from the tidal gate can destroy fairness. The consensus here seems towards a mark of some description on the north side of the shipping lanes and an approach to the finish at between 120 and 180 degrees.

Makes sense !

But ... have not not tidal gates always been at the heart of true RORC racing ?  ;)

Crossing from Wolf Rock to the west of Brittany, then racing West to East for Cherbourg could be really spicy :) :)

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't this come about because the Commodore's crew got in a punch up at the finish and got banned for life from the marina so he moved the finish elsewhere...Wait. Wrong country and race.

Carry on.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting reading of the Royal Western YC history of the race. The Deed of Gift for the Fastnet trophy clearly states that if the race is not run over the original course within three years (or the RORC closes), then the trophy (and so the race I would think) reverts back to the RWYC.  

So the RORC have to run the race on the original course by 2023 or lose it. So actually the 2023 event going to Cherbourg cannot call itself the Fastnet!

So the race will revert back the RWYC who then can licence it to the RORC and take a decent cut of the payment from Rolex and Cherbourg. Nice little earner for the RWYC.

FB_IMG_1575312253450.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, winchfodder said:

Interesting reading of the Royal Western YC history of the race. The Deed of Gift for the Fastnet trophy clearly states that if the race is not run over the original course within three years (or the RORC closes), then the trophy (and so the race I would think) reverts back to the RWYC.  

So the RORC have to run the race on the original course by 2023 or lose it. So actually the 2023 event going to Cherbourg cannot call itself the Fastnet!

So the race will revert back the RWYC who then can licence it to the RORC and take a decent cut of the payment from Rolex and Cherbourg. Nice little earner for the RWYC.

FB_IMG_1575312253450.jpg

I don’t read the “Original course” part, it just says course, it also says the race started in cowes in 1926 and that was a switch so we should therefore assume that the race hasn’t run the original course in decades...

Clearly the haters haven’t been to a French race village before. In the UK the general public couldn’t give a toss about sailing and it’s often viewed negatively with the rich yachties stereotype. In France it’s a national sport and the majority of the public get behind it and support it and that shows in the race villages they put on. Personally I feel St Malo would have been even better from a town point of view but tides, fishing gear, low tide access and the longer distance from the UK mean it’s not really an option.

I’ll be on the start line for the 2021 race and already looking forward to the new course.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites