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2 hours ago, astro said:

Of course every white American is shit fucking scared of the freed slaves kicking the front door down.

criminal-theratening-scared-old-man-gun-

Actually, in my case the anarchists/terrorists standing in front of my house pointing at it were all 3 white. Some will try to make it about skin color. It might be for some. 

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I have two Winchester Model 94's. These are part of my families history. The top one was my dads high school graduation present from 1948. It is a .32 Special. When i was young, he always promise

In wouldn't necessarily call myself a "placid" driver.  But I usually don't go out of my way to instigate confrontations either.  However, this one day on the way home from work on a fairly open fast

and some orthere stuffe to.                                    

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1 hour ago, BravoBravo said:

If you are in your home and talking to the police after using whatever weapon you had used to defend yourself.....deal with the consequences... they are certainly better than  what would have happened had you not had to fire whatever " none compliant weapon" you used

Yep, self-defense is a two step process: 1) Winning the Gunfight, and 2) Winning the Legal Fight. 

In all cases you must first win the gunfight. Cheat you must.

Then you must win the Criminal and Civil legal fights. The necessary course of action is exacting and often counter-intuitive, and that's where training is invaluable. 

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15 hours ago, Liquid said:

Home defense is really a different animal. Just the sound of cocking a 12 gauge can change someone's intent!

Clint Emerson 'international operative's' interview via podcast (mikedrop):

'First pound on the door wakes you up, second pound on the door you're locking and loading and heading for the door, 3rd pound on the door opens and you meet the intruder.'

 

I'm talking out in public buying some vodka with high stress levels and a somewhat armed populous.... 

Why carry? 54 years and I'm now considering strapping a weapon????

I think you are right.......I don’t need to carry. Things would have to get a thousand times worse before i’d consider that. Frankly, i’d likely relocate before that. I do have to say, i’ve been to some locales where folks open carry, really does not bother me. The likelihood i’d be anywhere that a good or bad guy was waving a gun around are pretty low to the point of being infinitesimal.......so far. 

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50 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Curious... where and what are you imagining in relocation... I go around and around with scenarios... Mrs BB loves her job as plans loosely on 2 more years. We have lived here in the same spot for 38 years after moving from Miami because it was growing too fast. The same thing is happening here now, I’d like a small town atmosphere, which is what we found here. Next on the list is proximity to full service medical treatments followed by large airport 60 miles or so. Water sports which most of my life revolved  around is really not even on my list, although wife still likes being near the beach ... oh and one of my requirements is being able to piss in my yard without worrying about offending someone 

Well......I really don’t know. While I’ve casually contemplated it before due to the Cali economy/taxes etc I’ve not given it anymore than a passing thought. I really like the Mediterranean climate here in low cal and the ocean access so close. I’d have to rethink all of that if I were to start looking to relocate. Many many friends and coworkers have left Cali for Tennessee, Idaho, etc. I just don’t see us there. It would require such a huge shift in the things I love to do............fortunately the kind of change I’m talking about likely wouldn’t be flipping a switch and it’s that way overnight but more of a growing awareness. We’ll see.

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10 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

Curious... where and what are you imagining in relocation... I go around and around with scenarios... Mrs BB loves her job as plans loosely on 2 more years. We have lived here in the same spot for 38 years after moving from Miami because it was growing too fast. The same thing is happening here now, I’d like a small town atmosphere, which is what we found here. Next on the list is proximity to full service medical treatments followed by large airport 60 miles or so. Water sports which most of my life revolved  around is really not even on my list, although wife still likes being near the beach ... oh and one of my requirements is being able to piss in my yard without worrying about offending someone 

Small town rural SE CT checks all of your boxes, except that it can be cold and miserable January through March.  We plan on spending most of those months in Charleston, SC with our daughters, in a couple of years, when we can afford to.  40 miles to Bradley (BDL) and 60 to Providence, RI (PVD) which has cheaper flights. Great sailing and all other water sports, and all of the above.  Most people don't lock their houses or their cars...I can piss in any yard with impunity, except when the HOT housewife across the street is gardening in her front yard. Then I have to go in the back yard, or behind the garage....

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Put the Hogue Handall Grip on, this morning. Took about a minute. Nice grippy rubber.  Finger grooves, without the meat tenderizer backstrap of the Gen2. The only drawback that I see is that it makes the large grip bigger, and I have large hands. 

C2CE9E5C-EB0E-453F-83FC-278D6D417CA2.jpeg

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On 7/11/2020 at 10:10 AM, Point Break said:

I understand as well. My comment was more to the point of firing till the threat is over, not driving rounds into someone already incapacitated. There will be some judgement necessary. If the confrontation is only physical, once the bad guy goes down.....thats good enough. If the bad guy is armed.....even down they can shoot so I'd have to evaluate "how down" and react. Hopefully I would been a position to retreat and evaluate after the bad guy goes down, and I'd be thrilled if they chose to retreat instead. The advice I got - only partly sarcastic - from an LEO buddy was 1) make sure its in your house 2) do not shout warnings, if they are already in your house, thats threat enough. Warnings give the bad guy an advantage 3) shoot till the threat is over and stop 4) dead bad guys don't argue the circumstances in court...but those are situational decisions. I'm not sure about no warning.....seems like an over reaction. However.............your advice is appreciated. I have read a little about it but I'll avail myself of your links (and those Charlie posted as well). 

Your LEO friend is very wise.  ;)

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On 7/12/2020 at 11:31 AM, Point Break said:

Well......I really don’t know. While I’ve casually contemplated it before due to the Cali economy/taxes etc I’ve not given it anymore than a passing thought. I really like the Mediterranean climate here in low cal and the ocean access so close. I’d have to rethink all of that if I were to start looking to relocate. Many many friends and coworkers have left Cali for Tennessee, Idaho, etc. I just don’t see us there. It would require such a huge shift in the things I love to do............fortunately the kind of change I’m talking about likely wouldn’t be flipping a switch and it’s that way overnight but more of a growing awareness. We’ll see.

Property in Calabria, Italy is scenic and in comparison to your local real estate prices?  Cheap. 

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On 7/14/2020 at 10:01 AM, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Just a quick addition to suggest that IMHO, the best home-defense firearm is the Taurus Judge.  Combo shotshell/solid projectile shell, revolver simple, and not going to go thru the wall with sufficient velocity to hurt anyone on the other side. 

 

If you go with the Judge make sure you select the correct ammo.

https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-41-the-taurus-judge-vs-the-box-o-truth/

 

 

 

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Well, I pick it up tomorrow (my Cali 10 day mandatory wait period). I guess I’ll hit the range for the first time in the next few days. I really have mixed feelings about this but I believe I have chosen correctly for myself and my family. Others may conclude differently and I have no disrespect for that contrary view. I held it myself for over 45 years. But since I have chosen this route......I will be good at it......damn good.

If there is such a thing....may god help us all.

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14 minutes ago, Point Break said:

Well, I pick it up tomorrow (my Cali 10 day mandatory wait period). I guess I’ll hit the range for the first time in the next few days. I really have mixed feelings about this but I believe I have chosen correctly for myself and my family. Others may conclude differently and I have no disrespect for that contrary view. I held it myself for over 45 years. But since I have chosen this route......I will be good at it......damn good.

If there is such a thing....may god help us all.

You will be fine!  You've seen what they can do.  It is just another tool that you now have the opportunity to use, if you need to.  You're fortunate to live in OC, your Sheriff didn't deem gun stores as "Non Essential".  And, as I've said before, "When seconds count, the LAPD is there in minutes"!

See my post, above.  The Hogue Handall grip is really nice!   

https://www.hogueinc.com/glock-19-23-32-38-gen-3-4-handall-beavertail-grip-sleeve-black

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1 minute ago, silent bob said:

You will be fine!  You've seen what they can do.  It is just another tool that you now have the opportunity to use, if you need to.  You're fortunate to live in OC, your Sheriff didn't deem gun stores as "Non Essential".  And, as I've said before, "When seconds count, the LAPD is there in minutes"!

See my post, above.  The Hogue Handall grip is really nice!   

https://www.hogueinc.com/glock-19-23-32-38-gen-3-4-handall-beavertail-grip-sleeve-black

Thanks! I noticed your post and filed it. I thought I'd shoot with the stock grip and decide. 

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Just now, Point Break said:

Thanks! I noticed your post and filed it. I thought I'd shoot with the stock grip and decide. 

One of my associates put one on his Ruger EC9s, a compact 9mm.  He was complaining about the uncomfortable recoil.  He said that the Hogue grip reduced the recoil considerably, making it much friendlier to shoot.  I haven't had a chance to get mine to the range yet, but it does just "Feel Better".  As mine is a mid Gen1, it did not come with Finger Grooves in the grip.  The recoil on the G17 is firm, but not uncomfortable.  But, as i said above, it does make a large grip even bigger!

Years ago, I had to freshen up at the range with Rick Booth, Timo42, and Charlie Foxtrot, after an incident with a neighbor spooked me.  Luckily nothing happened, but it was good to get a little range time in.  Neighbor is now dead, from natural causes (or maybe his wife poisoned him, but i wouldn't tell)!  

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17 minutes ago, silent bob said:

One of my associates put one on his Ruger EC9s, a compact 9mm.  He was complaining about the uncomfortable recoil.  He said that the Hogue grip reduced the recoil considerably, making it much friendlier to shoot.  I haven't had a chance to get mine to the range yet, but it does just "Feel Better".  As mine is a mid Gen1, it did not come with Finger Grooves in the grip.  The recoil on the G17 is firm, but not uncomfortable.  But, as i said above, it does make a large grip even bigger!

Years ago, I had to freshen up at the range with Rick Booth, Timo42, and Charlie Foxtrot, after an incident with a neighbor spooked me.  Luckily nothing happened, but it was good to get a little range time in.  Neighbor is now dead, from natural causes (or maybe his wife poisoned him, but i wouldn't tell)!  

Good group of folks near as I can tell!! 

I have a relatively small hand (yes.....I know the jokes about small hands) so I'm not sure a bigger grip is indicated. We'll see. As I remember...so long ago......the 1911 I shot in the military had a pretty small grip and I found it pretty comfortable to shoot...........not sure though. You how the military is.........."here shoot this".........."yes sir"........especially when you are 18 years old.

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3 hours ago, Point Break said:

Good group of folks near as I can tell!! 

I have a relatively small hand (yes.....I know the jokes about small hands) so I'm not sure a bigger grip is indicated. We'll see. As I remember...so long ago......the 1911 I shot in the military had a pretty small grip and I found it pretty comfortable to shoot...........not sure though. You how the military is.........."here shoot this".........."yes sir"........especially when you are 18 years old.

I loved shooting better than the ex-cop then a DA now a judge.  He had a very fine gun.  I had a long barreled 357.

It wasn't really a fair competition. 

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7 minutes ago, hasher said:

I loved shooting better than the ex-cop then a DA now a judge.  He had a very fine gun.  I had a long barreled 357.

It wasn't really a fair competition. 

If I like shooting, I may grab a Colt Python revolver with a 6” barrel. I have always found that gun aesthetically appealing. Never shot a revolver either. 

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1 minute ago, Point Break said:

If I like shooting, I may grab a Colt Python revolver with a 6” barrel. I have always found that gun aesthetically appealing. Never shot a revolver either. 

Revolvers tend to be reliable.  I'd rather run, duck and hide. But ...

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24 minutes ago, hasher said:

Revolvers tend to be reliable.  I'd rather run, duck and hide. But ...

My first actions will always be to avoid and retreat......till it isn’t feasible any longer in ending/avoiding the threat. Then..........it won’t be me or mine.

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1 minute ago, Point Break said:

My first actions will always be to avoid and retreat......till it isn’t feasible any longer in ending/avoiding the threat. Then..........it won’t be me or mine.

Yes sir.

When an aggressor dies, there he chose to go.

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2 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

PSA Gen 4 or Ruger 

same ammo as the pistols and the PSA takes Glock mags which is a KISS plus 

the 9mm carbines are consistent at 100m with iron sights 

.223 is just too damn powerful and long range for anything I’ll ever need, hopefully won’t need ever. In basic we’d practice at 300m with the M 16 with iron sights, that is a long way for self defense 

I anticipate the range of any confrontation requiring deadly force will be in my house around 10 yards. The furthest would be from the top of the stairs (me) to part way up the stairs (bad guy), maybe downstairs in the entry hallway....that will be about 3 yards.

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12 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

PSA Gen 4 or Ruger 

same ammo as the pistols and the PSA takes Glock mags which is a KISS plus 

the 9mm carbines are consistent at 100m with iron sights 

.223 is just too damn powerful and long range for anything I’ll ever need, hopefully won’t need ever. In basic we’d practice at 300m with the M 16 with iron sights, that is a long way for self defense 

The Ruger can take glock mags as well 

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4 hours ago, astro said:

So help me out here.

In America, the penalty for home invasion is instant execution by the home owner?

No trial?  No judge and jury?

Amazing shit to hear how some of you have actually planned out how and from how far you will shoot someone, probably take a life.

Fucking sick shit bro.

Yes. So stay the fuck out. 

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5 hours ago, astro said:

So help me out here.

In America, the penalty for home invasion is instant execution by the home owner?

No trial?  No judge and jury?

Amazing shit to hear how some of you have actually planned out how and from how far you will shoot someone, probably take a life.

Fucking sick shit bro.

Take it to PA.

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5 hours ago, astro said:

So help me out here.

In America, the penalty for home invasion is instant execution by the home owner?

No trial?  No judge and jury?

Amazing shit to hear how some of you have actually planned out how and from how far you will shoot someone, probably take a life.

Fucking sick shit bro.

Depends on the state but in many states, yes.

At the other end of the spectrum, in many states you're obligated to retreat. If they still come after you and they have a deadly weapon, you can use deadly force to defend yourself. Short of that, you'll be brought up on manslaughter charges and/or sued by the invaders or their survivors.

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Well, there are numerous ways to spin the contemplation of any decision to use deadly force in defense of ones self and family. The considerable forethought - in my mind - ensures I will not make a wrong decision under those circumstances. The distance I am likely to encounter and the circumstances dictate the most appropriate weapon. Use of deadly force will only be employed after avoid and retreat does not end the threat. I’ll not be chasing down a burglar, I’ll not be outside waving the gun, I’ll not be involved in some emotional confrontation outside my home while in possession of the weapon. Contrary to the spin that it’s somehow ghoulish, it is instead the proper forethought and planning to ensure there are not any wrong decisions. It’s the only responsible way to address the subject.  

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On 7/11/2020 at 11:22 AM, billy backstay said:

I must be getting slow, I just today realized that Burning Man is Jeffro's latest sock puppet....:blink:

Not a sock.  A replacement for a lost account.  I was upfront as to who this new name was at the beginning.

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On 7/11/2020 at 12:22 PM, Point Break said:

I have always been a fairly placid driver and avoid those gesturing wildly and shouting. Sometimes I can't help myself and I laugh or just smile. Some are embarrassed and drive off and some it seems to infuriate but......sometimes its just funny. Usually they sputter and spit and accelerate off in a cloud of exhaust. Whatever. If I approach a light with one still engaged I leave myself room to leave from the car ahead. I actually have pulled off the freeway once because I had one sputtering and braking in front etc. I just got off the freeway and waited a few minutes and drive on. In my view those people are not going to be reasonable so non engage is my approach. If I am at fault (didn't notice something) I have found that a "sorry" my bad motion stops the reaction in its tracks. 

In wouldn't necessarily call myself a "placid" driver.  But I usually don't go out of my way to instigate confrontations either.  However, this one day on the way home from work on a fairly open fast highway, this douchenozzle dives into a space between me and a car ahead that is not wide enough for his car because he was impatient to pass and I had to emer brake to keep from having him as a hood ornament.  I caught up to him soon after and gave him the WTF gesture - i.e. both hands up with open hands and a shrug - trying to see if he knew how close he was to causing a major accident at 80mph.  He lost his shit.  Tried running me off the road, tried to slam his brakes on right in front of me, etc.  I backed way off assuming he would get it out of his system and go on his way.  He did not.  Instead he decided to follow me, so I drove some random streets just to see if it was a coincidence.  It was not.  I called 911 as I was about a couple of miles from a Po-Leece station and told them what was going and that he was being aggressive and following me and gave them his tag # and make/model.  I told them I would pull into the station parking lot if they could have a car meet me outside.  They said yes, just don't get out of the car.  As promised there we two metro cruisers there in the parking lot waiting.  When the asshole saw me pull in, he panicked and gunned it and the cruisers took chase.  They got him a few blocks later.  Turned out he had outstanding warrants on him for violence.  Fortunately, he was not armed.  The cops thanked me for bringing him right to them....  :D

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1 minute ago, Burning Man said:

In wouldn't necessarily call myself a "placid" driver.  But I usually don't go out of my way to instigate confrontations either.  However, this one day on the way home from work on a fairly open fast highway, this douchenozzle dives into a space between me and a car ahead that is not wide enough for his car because he was impatient to pass and I had to emer brake to keep from having him as a hood ornament.  I caught up to him soon after and gave him the WTF gesture - i.e. both hands up with open hands and a shrug - trying to see if he knew how close he was to causing a major accident at 80mph.  He lost his shit.  Tried running me off the road, tried to slam his brakes on right in front of me, etc.  I backed way off assuming he would get it out of his system and go on his way.  He did not.  Instead he decided to follow me, so I drove some random streets just to see if it was a coincidence.  It was not.  I called 911 as I was about a couple of miles from a Po-Leece station and told them what was going and that he was being aggressive and following me and gave them his tag # and make/model.  I told them I would pull into the station parking lot if they could have a car meet me outside.  They said yes, just don't get out of the car.  As promised there we two metro cruisers there in the parking lot waiting.  When the asshole saw me pull in, he panicked and gunned it and the cruisers took chase.  They got him a few blocks later.  Turned out he had outstanding warrants on him for violence.  Fortunately, he was not armed.  The cops thanked me for bringing him right to them....  :D

Smart. Good ending. Bad guy in custody and no violence required. WFD. 

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On 7/11/2020 at 5:43 PM, bowman81 said:

This may not be the thread for it so happy to take it elsewhere and it's probably variable State to State but what's the stance on conceal carry if drinking? 

My state has a zero tolerance of DUI and CCW.  They do not go together.  I agree, it's a horrible mix.  If you're going to go to a bar and get hammered, don't take your guns to town, son.  Leave your guns at home, Bill.  Don't take your guns to town......  ;)

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On 7/11/2020 at 6:59 PM, sshow bob said:

Yep - no guns with alcohol on board.  The same would be true if I smoked marijuana.  I don't even handle guns if I have anything to drink.  

Agree.  I don't even have a cocktail while reloading due to the chance that I could do something stupid and blows myself up.  

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3 hours ago, Burning Man said:

Not a sock.  A replacement for a lost account.  I was upfront as to who this new name was at the beginning.

Yeah, but you had a different screen name, "female arsonist", or something like that, meaning "burn this bitch down"??  

Was that one lost as well?

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17 hours ago, astro said:

The most likely victim of your new purchase is either you or a family member.

That is an old anti lie and you should educate yourself out of your ignorant, judgmental state.

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5 hours ago, justsomeguy! said:

Full text is not available from there at this time, but it looks like they do not differentiate between legal gun owners and those in possession of a gun illegally. There was a study done by UPenn which did essentially the same thing, the problem being that it distorts the picture of what is actually happening. It also misses the occasions where a gun may be used in self defense without ever being fired, which is a better outcome than if it was fired in self defense. I would much rather someone with ill intent leave and be dealt with by police later than to have shot them., I think most folks would. The studies I have seen also tend not to differentiate between whether the gun was bought with the intention of providing for self defense, or whether it was bought by someone suicidal with the express intent of committing suicide. I have not seen a study which was not intentionally or unintentionally biased in one direction or the other, but I would really like to. I would be interested in better understanding the relative risks over time, and just as importantly what were the differentiating factors in cases where someone bought a gun specifically for self defense and then had a bad outcome vs those that bought a gun for self defense and had a positive (or at least less bad, I don't think any shooting is really positive) outcome. 

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2 hours ago, Charlie Foxtrot said:

Legal Analysis: Defending Property with Attorney Andrew Marcantel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiA85CgbwEQ&feature=youtu.be

 

 

 

You should totally rely on a video from a kid in a vest who passed the bar 4 years ago when determining your rights under the law.  good idea charlie.

For those of you who are not retarded, here's some advice: DON'T GET YOUR EDUCATION FROM YOUTUBE.

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24 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

You should totally rely on a video from a kid in a vest who passed the bar 4 years ago when determining your rights under the law.  good idea charlie.

For those of you who are not retarded, here's some advice: DON'T GET YOUR EDUCATION FROM YOUTUBE. 

Cogent points, Clean.

However, this video was presented by two established self-defense organizations: AZ Citizens' Defense League and the Armed Citizen' Legal Defense Network. It is almost certainly more informed than some of the discussions within this thread. That being said, it is only an initial step toward the necessary knowledge to be gained by training and consultation with legal professionals.  

 

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15 minutes ago, Charlie Foxtrot said:

Cogent points, Clean.

However, this video was presented by two established self-defense organizations: AZ Citizens' Defense League and the Armed Citizen' Legal Defense Network. It is almost certainly more informed than some of the discussions within this thread. That being said, it is only an initial step toward the necessary knowledge to be gained by training and consultation with legal professionals.  

 

It is certainly 'more informed' than this place, but it's still the work of an associate with a few short years of experience, and it's still a video from a guy whose motivation is obviously to become a 'leading voice', as you can tell by the stupid fucking vest.  "more informed" does not mean "accurately informed", and when it is your freedom and your life or another's at stake, 'more informed' is about as useful as 'uninformed'.  It has to be right.   A lot of people also do not understand that every single state's self-defense laws are different, and what frees you in one place can get you a life sentence in others.

As for the rest of your comment: thanks for being a responsible american, charlie.  You are an example to others.  

 

 

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10 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Better to be defending yourself in court than pushing up daisies 

For sure.  Even better to be defending yourself in court having correctly handled every aspect of the situation, including the runup to the shooting, the shooting, the emeergency call, the police interview, the attorney selection, and so on...

 

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5 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Well I don’t plan on ever carrying outside of my home, so my reply is in that context ... don’t own or process as of now , but have plenty of strategically placed objects out of sight. Poor criminal would probably wished he had been shot !

lol

Not tough in your part of FL anyway, you can pretty much get away with shooting a cop as long as he is unlawfully on your property (and the cop is black or latino)

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9 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

If there is one thing I can suggest to people, it's to never, ever talk to the cops following a self-defense event.  The only word you need to know is "lawyer".

NEVER was a truer word spoken.

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

It is certainly 'more informed' than this place, but it's still the work of an associate with a few short years of experience, and it's still a video from a guy whose motivation is obviously to become a 'leading voice', as you can tell by the stupid fucking vest.  "more informed" does not mean "accurately informed", and when it is your freedom and your life or another's at stake, 'more informed' is about as useful as 'uninformed'.  It has to be right.   A lot of people also do not understand that every single state's self-defense laws are different, and what frees you in one place can get you a life sentence in others.

As for the rest of your comment: thanks for being a responsible american, charlie.  You are an example to others. 

Now Councilor, you know that a Shyster's sartorial preferences are inadmissible evidence before the court. 

As for being an example..... I sincerely hope not.

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Andrew Branca is a highly respected  lawyer, lecturer, thought leader and author in the field of active self-defense.  I've been privileged to attend a lecture and hear him speak at events several times.  His online classes have gotten excellent notices.  I'm on his mailing list and received the following:

Hello Charles,

If you'd like a world-class, yet plain English, education how all the self-defense law stuff works, so that YOU can be hard to convict, you’d be hard pressed to find a better way to get that understanding, all in a single day, than our Law of Self Defense LEVEL 1 Live Online Class.

This is the equivalent of our full-day self-defense law class that we teach all over the country, the same class that’s been certified for Continuing Legal Education for lawyers in more than 30 states, but with all the legalese translated into English. And it’s all available at a ridiculously low price, taught live by me with plenty of opportunity for Q&A, and streamed live to your computer, tablet, or even smartphone.

CAUTION: We’re only doing TWO MORE of these classes in 2020, and our next one is scheduled for Saturday, July 25, 2020. Don’t miss out! If you do, you'll be waiting until 2021 to learn the ACTUAL law of self-defense. Can you afford to wait and leave yourself vulnerable to conviction if you have to defend yourself or your family?

To learn more about this class, click the image or link below:

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http://lawofselfdefense.com/liveonline

Remember

You carry a gun so you're hard to kill.

Know the law so you're hard to convict.

Stay safe!

--Andrew

Attorney Andrew F. Branca
Law of Self Defense LL

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21 minutes ago, Charlie Foxtrot said:

Now Councilor, you know that a Shyster's sartorial preferences are inadmissible evidence before the court. 

As for being an example..... I sincerely hope not.

before the court of law, yes.

before the court of youtube, those preferences are not only admissible but highly probative of the credibility of said Shyster.  Vest, tie tack, rolex submariner, probably some 600$ shoes, a well-worn copy of 'think and grow rich' on his nightstand...I know way, way too many of these little douchebags.

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5 minutes ago, Charlie Foxtrot said:

Andrew Branca is a highly respected  lawyer, lecturer, thought leader and author in the field of active self-defense.  I've been privileged to attend a lecture and hear him speak at events several times.  His online classes have gotten excellent notices.  I'm on his mailing list and received the following:

Hello Charles,

If you'd like a world-class, yet plain English, education how all the self-defense law stuff works, so that YOU can be hard to convict, you’d be hard pressed to find a better way to get that understanding, all in a single day, than our Law of Self Defense LEVEL 1 Live Online Class.

This is the equivalent of our full-day self-defense law class that we teach all over the country, the same class that’s been certified for Continuing Legal Education for lawyers in more than 30 states, but with all the legalese translated into English. And it’s all available at a ridiculously low price, taught live by me with plenty of opportunity for Q&A, and streamed live to your computer, tablet, or even smartphone.

CAUTION: We’re only doing TWO MORE of these classes in 2020, and our next one is scheduled for Saturday, July 25, 2020. Don’t miss out! If you do, you'll be waiting until 2021 to learn the ACTUAL law of self-defense. Can you afford to wait and leave yourself vulnerable to conviction if you have to defend yourself or your family?

To learn more about this class, click the image or link below:

Commercial-Promo-200725-300x169.png

http://lawofselfdefense.com/liveonline

Remember

You carry a gun so you're hard to kill.

Know the law so you're hard to convict.

Stay safe!

--Andrew

Attorney Andrew F. Branca
Law of Self Defense LL

Thanks Charlie.  I could use another CLE credit but unfortunately I am doing another one for the next 5 weeks, twice a week for 6 hours...2500 bucks to be a finra-certified mergers and acquisitions advisor ...ugh so boooring

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20 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

before the court of law, yes.

before the court of youtube, those preferences are not only admissible but highly probative of the credibility of said Shyster.  Vest, tie tack, rolex submariner, probably some 600$ shoes, a well-worn copy of 'think and grow rich' on his nightstand...I know way, way too many of these little douchebags.

You know..... I feel the same way about those Ivy School MBAs I encounter, with their 1/2 Mil sheepskins, 200 dollar haircuts, $700 shoes, $3k suits, Billion dollar egos and not 2 cents of credible experience. 

Your motion is sustained. 

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On 7/15/2020 at 9:33 PM, BravoBravo said:

PSA Gen 4 or Ruger 

same ammo as the pistols and the PSA takes Glock mags which is a KISS plus 

the 9mm carbines are consistent at 100m with iron sights 

.223 is just too damn powerful and long range for anything I’ll ever need, hopefully won’t need ever. In basic we’d practice at 300m with the M 16 with iron sights, that is a long way for self defense 

BB,

I can not speak highly enough of my CZ Scorpion 9mm carbine.  I got the pistol version with the SB Tactical folding brace (7 3/4" barrel with flash hider).  I had to change the pistol grip and safety to work better for me as a lefty, and lightened up the trigger spring, but all in I am right around $1k.  I dont own a Glock so Glock mags werent a selling point for me and the Scorpion mags are CHEAP!  Like less than $20 for Magpul 35 rounders.  There is something strangely satisfying knowing I have 35 rounds of 124 gr HST hollow points ready in case Mr Bad Guy decides to enter my home without invitation.

It is funny as I use to think the best home defense weapon was a 12 gauge pump shotgun.  "Just rack the slide on a pump shotgun and the bad guy will realize he made a poor decision".  Still not terrible advise, but my preference is to only identify myself when absolutely necessary and when said bad guy is looking down the barrel of said Scorpion.

MS

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Really too many to list. I live near Detroit. Sig Sauer, Colt, Ruger, BG Defense, HK, Walther, Remington, Browning....

My favorites? Home defense, I'm partial to my 870 Marine Magnum, Walther PPQ and HK VP9. Long range? LWRC AR-15 or Bolt action Browning 30-06.

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8 minutes ago, Skull and Bones said:

Really too many to list. I live near Detroit. Sig Sauer, Colt, Ruger, BG Defense, HK, Walther, Remington, Browning....

My favorites? Home defense, I'm partial to my 870 Marine Magnum, Walther PPQ and HK VP9. Long range? LWRC AR-15 or Bolt action Browning 30-06.

Could you define near Detroit? 

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On 7/15/2020 at 12:48 PM, Point Break said:

Well, I pick it up tomorrow (my Cali 10 day mandatory wait period). I guess I’ll hit the range for the first time in the next few days. I really have mixed feelings about this but I believe I have chosen correctly for myself and my family. Others may conclude differently and I have no disrespect for that contrary view. I held it myself for over 45 years. But since I have chosen this route......I will be good at it......damn good.

If there is such a thing....may god help us all.

You've definitely made the correct choice if this is the route in your heart.  I applaud you both for your mixed feelings as that is healthy as well as your commitment to being proficient once you've made the choice.  As a long time gun owner and advocate of that right, I wish more of my fellow gun owners approached it the way you have.  On ya.....

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On 7/15/2020 at 1:27 PM, silent bob said:

As mine is a mid Gen1, it did not come with Finger Grooves in the grip. 

Interestingly, I have Gen 1, 2, 4's and 5's and I don't prefer the finger grooves.  I'm glad that Glock went away from them.

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On 7/15/2020 at 8:38 PM, Point Break said:

I anticipate the range of any confrontation requiring deadly force will be in my house around 10 yards. The furthest would be from the top of the stairs (me) to part way up the stairs (bad guy), maybe downstairs in the entry hallway....that will be about 3 yards.

You'd be surprised that the ideal tool for that exact application is an AR-15 type rifle.  Especially if you can get a short barrel mod in the 10-12" range.  Although I'm pretty sure in Kali, that is verboten.  SWAT and DoD special forces indoor short range weapons used to be the 9mm submachine gun.  But they found that they had two detracting issues:  1) lack of stopping power and 2) over-penetration of walls.  So if you look at what most SWAT, HRT and SF use for the application you describe, they are using the 5.56mm NATO (.223) short barreled carbine.  One of the reasons is the 5.56 bullet is fairly fragile when it hits stuff like 2x4s and drywall and such.  Whereas a 9mm bullet just keeps on trucking.  

The common (incorrect) wisdom for home defense is that a rifle is overkill.  But it has huge advantages over a handgun.  One of the most overlooked issues with handguns is they can much more easily be taken away from the holder in a close altercation and then used on the owner by the perp.  A rifle, especially with a sling, is much more secure.  Also, a rifle tends to be much easier to shoot accurately at close range.  You'd be amazed at how easy it is to miss at extreme close ranges with a handgun when under duress.  Just research NYPD and other LEO shootings where supposedly trained officers sprayed bullets and hit everything BUT the intended target with duty issued Glocks.  Handguns require a much higher level of skill and hence practice than a rifle.  Also, women tend to be much more proficient and effective with an AR type rifle than with a handgun as the recoil is almost a non-factor and it's more intuitive to point and be accurate than a handgun.  

 

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On 7/16/2020 at 2:16 AM, astro said:

So help me out here.

In America, the penalty for home invasion is instant execution by the home owner?

No trial?  No judge and jury?

Amazing shit to hear how some of you have actually planned out how and from how far you will shoot someone, probably take a life.

Fucking sick shit bro.

If you break into my home, I am not going to take the time to figure out if you're there to just steal the TV or to murder my family.  The simplest way to avoid that outcome is to not break into someone's home.  Easy peasy lemon squeezy.  

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On 7/16/2020 at 8:13 AM, Point Break said:

Well, there are numerous ways to spin the contemplation of any decision to use deadly force in defense of ones self and family. The considerable forethought - in my mind - ensures I will not make a wrong decision under those circumstances. The distance I am likely to encounter and the circumstances dictate the most appropriate weapon. Use of deadly force will only be employed after avoid and retreat does not end the threat. I’ll not be chasing down a burglar, I’ll not be outside waving the gun, I’ll not be involved in some emotional confrontation outside my home while in possession of the weapon. Contrary to the spin that it’s somehow ghoulish, it is instead the proper forethought and planning to ensure there are not any wrong decisions. It’s the only responsible way to address the subject.  

Ding!

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25 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Interestingly, I have Gen 1, 2, 4's and 5's and I don't prefer the finger grooves.  I'm glad that Glock went away from them.

It really fits my hand, now.  I haven’t had a chance to get it to the range, but so far I like it.  It was only $20, delivered to my door.  I can peel it off with no traces remaining in under a minute.

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20 hours ago, LenP said:

Full text is not available from there at this time, but it looks like they do not differentiate between legal gun owners and those in possession of a gun illegally. There was a study done by UPenn which did essentially the same thing, the problem being that it distorts the picture of what is actually happening. It also misses the occasions where a gun may be used in self defense without ever being fired, which is a better outcome than if it was fired in self defense. I would much rather someone with ill intent leave and be dealt with by police later than to have shot them., I think most folks would. The studies I have seen also tend not to differentiate between whether the gun was bought with the intention of providing for self defense, or whether it was bought by someone suicidal with the express intent of committing suicide. I have not seen a study which was not intentionally or unintentionally biased in one direction or the other, but I would really like to. I would be interested in better understanding the relative risks over time, and just as importantly what were the differentiating factors in cases where someone bought a gun specifically for self defense and then had a bad outcome vs those that bought a gun for self defense and had a positive (or at least less bad, I don't think any shooting is really positive) outcome. 

Totally agree.  However, there was a couple of studies that looked at that.  They are not widely advertised for obvious reasons.   But the Obama gun study that was commissed by the CDC in the wake of Sandy Hook found this:

"Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was 'used' by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies."

https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/1#ix

 

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9 hours ago, astro said:

HAhahhahahaaaaa

Some people quote science.  Jeffy quotes a book published by shills.

The CDC and the Institute of Medicine and the National Research council are now "shills"???

Go fuck back off to PA.  This thread doesn't concern you.  

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15 hours ago, bowman81 said:

A mag change every 0.154 seconds... 

They make a California version where the belt feeds magazines instead of individual rounds.

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2 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

My G23 came with the "speed loader"........I think it overstated so far as "speed" goes, but it does make it easier to get especially the last 2 rounds loaded. The new mags have remarkable spring feed. Does that soften up after a while?

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4 minutes ago, Point Break said:

My G23 came with the "speed loader"........I think it overstated so far as "speed" goes, but it does make it easier to get especially the last 2 rounds loaded. The new mags have remarkable spring feed. Does that soften up after a while?

Not a lot. 

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5 hours ago, Autonomous said:

The UpLULA is great. It has an available single stack adapter.

I use it for 10mm double stack where it is very helpful and .45 ACP single stack where it is not needed but still helpful.

No reason to get anything but an UpLULA. An essential piece of kit.

 

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27 minutes ago, Point Break said:

Any value in Dry Fire training magazines? I can't think of any...........

Does yours have the Magazine Disconnect?  If so, you need one to dry fire.  
 

Get some SnapCaps if you’re going to do a lot of dry firing!  I prefer the rubber primer variety.

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5 minutes ago, silent bob said:

Does yours have the Magazine Disconnect?  If so, you need one to dry fire.  
 

Get some SnapCaps if you’re going to do a lot of dry firing!  I prefer the rubber primer variety.

The G23 does not have a magazine disconnect and will dry fire without a mag in place. Is there a problem dry firing without a snap cap?

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2 minutes ago, Point Break said:

The G23 does not have a magazine disconnect and will dry fire without a mag in place. Is there a problem dry firing without a snap cap?

Never had a problem with it on a modern centerfire gun. Rimfires and cap and ball can be damaged dry firing. 

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8 minutes ago, Point Break said:

The G23 does not have a magazine disconnect and will dry fire without a mag in place. Is there a problem dry firing without a snap cap?

I think most modern guns can handle quite a bit of dry firing, but this video makes sense. A friend had his firing pin break recently in a brand new Ruger EC9s. He did quite a bit of dry firing without snap caps. There have been reports of this being common on his model.  

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20 minutes ago, LenP said:

Never had a problem with it on a modern centerfire gun. Rimfires and cap and ball can be damaged dry firing. 

Ruger MkII (.22 Rimfire) pistols can be severely damaged if the Firing Pin Stop is not in place.  

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4 hours ago, Point Break said:

Anybody add a tungsten guide rod to their pistol to reduce recoil? My Glock 23 Gen4 is standard with a plastic one.

Tungsten Rod and Gucci spring are about $120.  From what I understand, the Tungsten rod reduces Muzzle Flip, and doesn't affect recoil much.  I ordered a Factory plastic rod and new spring from Midway USA for under $10, for my Glock 17 Gen 1.  The original lasted 32 years. 

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15 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Welcome to the club - I like mine, but would trade for a Springfield Arms XD

Have you tried the HK VP9? I have an XDM which I quite liked, but barely pick up since getting the VP9. I think HK really nailed the ergonomics and trigger on it. 

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