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Boomers Owned Much More of the Wealth


Jules

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Fraction of all US wealth owned by Boomers & Gen-Xers when the average member of each was age 35:

  • Boomers, 1989 21%
  • GenX, 2008 8%
  • The average Millennial turns 35 in 2023. Right now they own 3%.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/dataviz/dfa/distribute/table/#quarter:119;series:Net worth;demographic:generation;population:all;units:shares

I'd say it's time the pendulum starts swinging the other way.

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The number of people wanting a slice of the pie has increased much faster than the size of the pie. The guys who run the bakery keep wanting (and getting) a bigger slice of the pie for themselves.

So it's the boomers' fault. We made too many kids and gave them too many expectations, and too many of us got MBA's and indoctrinated our kids to be greedy.

I missed out. I'm poor.

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4 minutes ago, Happy said:

The number of people wanting a slice of the pie has increased much faster than the size of the pie. The guys who run the bakery keep wanting (and getting) a bigger slice of the pie for themselves.

So it's the boomers' fault. We made too many kids and gave them too many expectations, and too many of us got MBA's and indoctrinated our kids to be greedy.

I missed out. I'm poor.

Poor.

 

But obviously happy.....

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I have a black belt in living well on not much money. Many, many years of experience. I've always believed that having fun while you can beats slaving (and being a bastard to others) for a few dollars more when you're old.

However, I would really like a Mercedes SL500 instead of a 20-year-old Camry. Can any of you fabled wealthy boomers help a brother out?

 

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1 hour ago, Happy said:

I have a black belt in living well on not much money. Many, many years of experience. I've always believed that having fun while you can beats slaving (and being a bastard to others) for a few dollars more when you're old.

However, I would really like a Mercedes SL500 instead of a 20-year-old Camry. Can any of you fabled wealthy boomers help a brother out?

 

If you are poor now, get an SL 500 and you will know true poverty trying to keep that beast running.

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7 hours ago, Jules said:

Fraction of all US wealth owned by Boomers & Gen-Xers when the average member of each was age 35:

  • Boomers, 1989 21%
  • GenX, 2008 8%
  • The average Millennial turns 35 in 2023. Right now they own 3%.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/dataviz/dfa/distribute/table/#quarter:119;series:Net worth;demographic:generation;population:all;units:shares

I'd say it's time the pendulum starts swinging the other way.

um..well it will in the next ten years when the boomers all hop off the perch and leave their milenial kids all their money.

Except we boomers have created our financial demise . All our hard earned will get sucked up in health insurance and aged care owned by ...BOOMERS.  There's a class system within our own ranks. A proletariat and bourgeoisie as it were.  

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4 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

um..well it will in the next ten years when the boomers all hop off the perch and leave their milenial kids all their money.

Considering my parents are still alive and I was born in 1957  I Would hope I've got At least another 20 years. 

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Just now, The Q said:

Considering my parents are still alive and I was born in 1957  I Would hope I've got At least another 20 years. 

Uh huh, your milenial kids will probable double dip...

My kids will be the first in 3 generations of proles to actually inherit enough to see them at least safely housed ..unless they donate it all to the Communist party :blink:

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2 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

So you're saying all that Boomer wealth is going to get recirculated back into the economy.  Sweet.

Well not exactly, it looks like a lot will go to the top 1% ..unless we stop being fucking stupid and are prepared to depart this mortal coil in a timely and dignified fashion.

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5 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

What generation do you think the 1% are?  

Good heavens you mean lil old me? 

Right. Don't be an idiot.

One of the reasons  don't take this whole boomer thing too seriously, financially speaking is that Boomers drove buses too.:rolleyes:

 

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7 hours ago, Jules said:

Fraction of all US wealth owned by Boomers & Gen-Xers when the average member of each was age 35:

  • Boomers, 1989 21%
  • GenX, 2008 8%
  • The average Millennial turns 35 in 2023. Right now they own 3%.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/dataviz/dfa/distribute/table/#quarter:119;series:Net worth;demographic:generation;population:all;units:shares

I'd say it's time the pendulum starts swinging the other way.

It's not.

Over the next 15 years, Boomers will inherit all the money from 'the greatest generation'.  If you think 'wealth' is concentrated now, you ain't seen nothing yet.  Serious.  Its not going to swing until the Boomers themselves start dying off more predictably in 20 or so years.  That's WHY they want to kick the can.  They LOVEEEEE this game. 

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7 minutes ago, cmilliken said:

It's not.

Over the next 15 years, Boomers will inherit all the money from 'the greatest generation'.  If you think 'wealth' is concentrated now, you ain't seen nothing yet.  Serious.  Its not going to swing until the Boomers themselves start dying off more predictably in 20 or so years.  That's WHY they want to kick the can.  The LOVEEEEE this game. 

precisely.

the ones we should be worrying about are those not yet  born.

Millenials will be OK but probably not increase generational wealth much...fewer jobs with lower salaries, that's if they manage to get more  than 25hrs work per week. But that's OK because they seemingly dont want to breed anyway .

Time to let us whiteys die off and let someone else start all over again.

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11 hours ago, Happy said:

The number of people wanting a slice of the pie has increased much faster than the size of the pie.

What has increased disproportionately is the percent of wealth at the top.  IIRC, in the 50s, the middle class owned about 50% of the wealth.  Today it's something like 30%.

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Don't overlook the corporate race to the bottom that started in the 80's - real wages and benefits have been sliding ever since.

When I was in my early 20's at IBM my salary would equate to about $75K now.

How many 23 year olds with no direct experience make anything like that now?

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21 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

If you are poor now, get an SL 500 and you will know true poverty trying to keep that beast running.

Especially when an E class 350 is better.  Still, buy the extended warranty.....

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Could be worse- could be a free boat....

29 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

Part 2

8100 £repair bill.  11,000 if the body rust was to be fixed.

Buy it for 990 £ and drop 11,000 for a full scale restoration.

Kind of like a free boat!

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Don't overlook the corporate race to the bottom that started in the 80's - real wages and benefits have been sliding ever since.

When I was in my early 20's at IBM my salary would equate to about $75K now.

How many 23 year olds with no direct experience make anything like that now?

depends on who they're willing to pimp for.

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^Uhh, quick question, does having "the Union Power" behind you count as pimping? Of course you kind have to be offspring of a member.

 

 

 

 

 

Sort of kidding, my step-father was a member of Local 86 but judging by the names on the out of work list that sort of thing is far less common.

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2 hours ago, animeproblem said:

^Uhh, quick question, does having "the Union Power" behind you count as pimping? Of course you kind have to be offspring of a member.

Other than (maybe) IVF babies, I thought all children were the offspring of a member....

FKT

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3 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

depends on who they're willing to pimp for.

Any political party will do - if you score a support job, you're golden. Young Labor, Young Libs - all the same.

FKT

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On 11/24/2019 at 10:13 PM, Jules said:

Fraction of all US wealth owned by Boomers & Gen-Xers when the average member of each was age 35:

  • Boomers, 1989 21%
  • GenX, 2008 8%
  • The average Millennial turns 35 in 2023. Right now they own 3%.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/dataviz/dfa/distribute/table/#quarter:119;series:Net worth;demographic:generation;population:all;units:shares

I'd say it's time the pendulum starts swinging the other way.

Yeah, but who can we put in the pit?

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On 11/24/2019 at 10:13 PM, Jules said:

Fraction of all US wealth owned by Boomers & Gen-Xers when the average member of each was age 35:

  • Boomers, 1989 21%
  • GenX, 2008 8%
  • The average Millennial turns 35 in 2023. Right now they own 3%.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/dataviz/dfa/distribute/table/#quarter:119;series:Net worth;demographic:generation;population:all;units:shares

I'd say it's time the pendulum starts swinging the other way.

Yep, and in a couple of years, those boomers will be handing the real estate, leftover cash and IRAs over to GenX who can move upstairs out of the basement.

They'll be in their own peak earning years and might manage to accumulate even more.

Unless they fritter it away to their kiddies, the millenials, who sit there screaming "I WANT IT, I WANT IT, I WANT IT NOOOOWWWWWWW!!"

 

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10 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Not sure about Canukistan, but in the US - you can thank NAFTA for that.  Wait..... what's that giant sucking sound again?  

Like I said in another post - you sound dumber with every post.

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18 minutes ago, Jules said:

So you think Millinneals chose to be poor?  HA!  That's a good one!

Everybody is "poor" at that age.  I was when I was their age but I chose to get over it.  Of course I didn't have credit cards then.

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1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

I still had a mortgage.  There is a reason that I put poor in  quotes.

Since they are deductible in the States you'd be a dummy not to have one.

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3 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

Boo Hoo...Millennials turned their collective backs on for profit corporations, were attracted to minimalist life styles and wants...spend what little money they have on overpriced cash based indie businesses that probably cheat on taxes all the while crying fro more government solutions to personal needs .They complain about housing costs and not being able to afford buying a home or renting something that suits their standards....meanwhile Mexicans their same age that bust their collective asses working multiple jobs are enjoying the American dream. One former coworker, Mexican, barley spoke English when he started with us. He is 35, owns one house outright and buying two others, the houses are in older lower income areas( where millennials would NEVER consider living. All houses have more than doubled in value according to Zillow from the recorded purchase price in county records...guy drives a beater PU he bought from the landscape company he used to work for, he paid $500 when they upgraded the fleet...he has been driving that PU for the 9 years I've known him. He says his friends all asked him why he doesn't buy a nicer vehicle, he just shrugs his shoulders and grins when telling the story. He goes to church is married with 3 kids...net worth if cashing out of his real estate is close to $500 K.... so there !....and Oh...unscientific theory of mine...have you listened to the dire drone of their "music"....No ! Rock n' Roll... 

So - short form, the harder you work, the luckier you get.

Who ever would have thought that was the case......

FKT

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48 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Since they are deductible in the States you'd be a dummy not to have one.

Ummmm, pay the bank $10,000 in interest to get a thousand or so back in taxes?

The mortgage tax deduction is nice to have but it still costs you money and you need to consider all of your personal reasons to buy a house.  If you are buying it as a tax deduction you are nuts.

 

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5 hours ago, Saorsa said:
6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Since they are deductible in the States you'd be a dummy not to have one.

Ummmm, pay the bank $10,000 in interest to get a thousand or so back in taxes?

The mortgage tax deduction is nice to have but it still costs you money and you need to consider all of your personal reasons to buy a house.  If you are buying it as a tax deduction you are nuts.

 

If you have a stack of cash big enough to buy a house, that's a good question to ask

Another good question is, what return could you get by investing that big stack o' cash in something like stocks or bonds? Then compare that to the interest you'd be charged on a mortgage.

These are the kind of questions one can find the answers to, if one is not a financial illiterate

- DSK

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We couldn't get a mortgage till in our mid 30's, whereupon the interest rate went up from 11%PA to 17.5%PA in a six month period. Thats one thing millenials don't have to cope with..

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11 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

So - short form, the harder you work, the luckier you get.

Who ever would have thought that was the case......

FKT

Single Mums ?

That's bullshit and you know it.

Of course it's a comfortable thought for those for whom the dice roll came up double sixes.

Poverty is relative. 

Even in our land of the great social security net, it's impossible for some to get out of poverty, an unlucky car smash or getting your car towed can wipe out a years savings for some of those hard workers.

Life is a game of snakes and ladders, rigged with fewer snakes and more ladders the higher you get.

Bravo's little tale of the Mexican with three houses, pre supposes an unending supply of cheap homes and exploited tenants. But even slum landlords need capital to start...or a place with few housing regulations.

Getting off the rental mouse wheel was the first ladder. Avoiding the mortgage interest and recession snakes on the next roll was the next..Boomers pulled the ladders up behind them. 

You know dam well our kids don't have the same employment opportunities as we did or any hope of riding a couple of property booms.

No more "open to all"  PS exams to help get on that ladder, no more free tertiary education and no more IT booms and no property that's sale price is 2x a years salary.

We were a very lucky generation. Sure hard work helped as well, but those that don't recognize we got a huge hand up from the times and circumstances are self deluding.

 

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2 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Nah, buying with cash is far better..... ;)

Only if you can manage for the rest of your life without credit.

Have you ever tried to get a loan with no credit record and no job even if you own the shack or trailer you live in? 

I doubt there's many here that have ever been truly poor as adults. 

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39 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

 

No more "open to all"  PS exams to help get on that ladder, no more free tertiary education and no more IT booms and no property that's sale price is 2x a years salary.

 

 

It was never 2X salary round here, Our first tiny terraced house in 1988 was 3X my salary +1 X the wifes and an 11% to 17.5 % interest rate..

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17 minutes ago, The Q said:

It was never 2X salary round here, Our first tiny terraced house in 1988 was 3X my salary +1 X the wifes and an 11% to 17.5 % interest rate..

um..that was your choice. you are in the UK are you not? Vast differences in prices of "tiny terraces" 

"Tiny Terraces" tend to be in the centre of towns or down on the "picturesque" old docks and harbours

In Oz, two base grade public servants would be able to buy their first modest (2 bed) home in a normal (12km from the CBD) of a Normal City for 2x  their years salary combined.

UK had a tsunami of issues in the mid to late eighties. Recession, falling house prices, market flooded with ex public housing stock and increasing interest lost many people their first homes   (I was renting my Melbourne House and renting in St Albans at the time) Tragic for some, a windfall for others.

Our interest rates were up as high as 17% for some as well. Didn't mean squat when your career had jumped a couple of pay grades since purchase. those interest rates were a temporary anomily ..we sold those homes for 5X the purchase price a decade later.

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1 hour ago, Shortforbob said:

I doubt there's many here that have ever been truly poor as adults. 

Reading the comments, I agree.  Fortunately, very few of the posters have been truly poor as adults.  My guess is they all have support systems and fall backs and they have gone through rough times and 'think they know'.  The only guy I KNOW knows what it's like is LenP.   Maybe their are others who have chosen not to share.  They have my deepest sympathies.

The big thing that most people don't admit is the massive proliferation in transactional costs.  For example, banks can and do charge for things like ATM charges, minimum bank balances, etc.  They make BILLIONS on these fees.  Higher fees for food.  Lost time using public transportation.  Untreated illness.  Bad dentistry.  Having to buy shitty stuff because you can't afford the first costs.  You didn't use to PAY to get into national parks.  Or parking.   Poor returns in any investments you DO have because you just can't afford risk.  The list is eternal. The typical response is 'shop around!'  Which, of course is true.   But if it were that easy, wouldn't they?

And here we get to the rub.  Do you really believe that all those people paying all those fees are just stupid?  The answer is yes.  People really do believe that those people paying those fees really are just stupid and lazy.  They're not 'like them' or they wouldn't be in that position.    Poverty is the modern expression of Leprosy - visible evidence that you're a bad person inside, and prone to make bad choices.  "Badness" manifest.  If you just 'pulled yourself up' you'd be OK.

There are a lot of people in poverty because of bad choices.  There are a lot of people in poverty because they really are dumb - the DNA dice gave them minimal ability.  Life isn't fair.  My wife has spent 30 years swimming with the 'life isn't fair' crowd.  Some of them are bad people.  Some of them aren't.  They are people with the normal spread of good and bad and smart and stupid.  They're just like you.  Which is why people don't like to think about it.  That COULD be you.

But anyone that thinks the game isn't rigged is as lazy and stupid as the people they decry.  The banks use those fees to prop up their bottom line so they can give YOU free banking services.  YOU are benefiting because they're actively taking advantage of people who don't have alternatives.  That's just one example out of a laundry list of similar hurdles.  Systemic poverty exists though a thousand cuts as often as one big chop.

A few hours on google will lead you to peer reviewed studies and summaries and every piece of hard evidence you'd ever like to know.  Armed with that knowledge, you can go back to your favorite fortune 500 company and read their 10K and you'll start to notice that this is a feature.  Companies KNOW and CHOOSE to take advantage of the inherit nature of the poverty trap.  That's part of their profit margin and a source of how they can give you all those goodies!

This isn't a particularly debatable point. But it is emotionally hard to accept.  

That's why i keep saying the only difference between a democrat and a republican is the democrats feel bad after they fuck you while republics figure you deserved it.  But they're both still going to fuck you.

Find and support less bad candidates.  Find and support less bad institutions.  There isn't a magic win.  Just less losing.

 

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21 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

um..that was your choice. you are in the UK are you not? Vast differences in prices of "tiny terraces" 

"Tiny Terraces" tend to be in the centre of towns or down on the "picturesque" old docks and harbours

In Oz, two base grade public servants would be able to buy their first modest (2 bed) home in a normal (12km from the CBD) of a Normal City for 2x  their years salary combined.

UK had a tsunami of issues in the mid to late eighties. Recession, falling house prices, market flooded with ex public housing stock and increasing interest lost many people their first homes   (I was renting my Melbourne House and renting in St Albans at the time) Tragic for some, a windfall for others.

Our interest rates were up as high as 17% for some as well. Didn't mean squat when your career had jumped a couple of pay grades since purchase. those interest rates were a temporary anomily ..we sold those homes for 5X the purchase price a decade later.

 A tiny terrace on a cheap estate on the wrong side of town.. We only just didn't lose ours

We sold our house ten years later for... exactly the same as we bought it for, there had been a major recession in between. Since I don''t have the right hand shake what's this word Promotion?

I'll point out I have never earnt the above the national average wage in the UK, just for 6 years working abroad was I over that level. I had to go aborad to make sure we didn't lose our house.

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6 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

If you have a stack of cash big enough to buy a house, that's a good question to ask

Another good question is, what return could you get by investing that big stack o' cash in something like stocks or bonds? Then compare that to the interest you'd be charged on a mortgage.

These are the kind of questions one can find the answers to, if one is not a financial illiterate

- DSK

All borrowing and/or investment involves some risk.  As I said " you need to consider all of your personal reasons to buy a house " in addition to that you need to consider the risks of home ownership.  A mill town is not a good place to own a house when the mill shuts down.  Having a large mortgage on it is not a good idea.  Taking out a HELOC to pay off your credit cards is a bad idea if you don't have the self discipline not to run the cards up to the limit again.

That's why fiscal responsibility should be a mandatory course in HS.

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16 minutes ago, cmilliken said:

That's why i keep saying the only difference between a democrat and a republican is the democrats feel bad after they fuck you.  But they're both still going to fuck you.

Do you really think they feel bad?  Ever notice how many highly rated actors are democrats?

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29 minutes ago, cmilliken said:

Reading the comments, I agree.  Fortunately, very few of the posters have been truly poor as adults.  My guess is they all have support systems and fall backs and they have gone through rough times and 'think they know'.  The only guy I KNOW knows what it's like is LenP.   Maybe their are others who have chosen not to share.  They have my deepest sympathies.

The big thing that most people don't admit is the massive proliferation in transactional costs.  For example, banks can and do charge for things like ATM charges, minimum bank balances, etc.  They make BILLIONS on these fees.  Higher fees for food.  Lost time using public transportation.  Untreated illness.  Bad dentistry.  Having to buy shitty stuff because you can't afford the first costs.  Poor returns in any investments you DO have because you just can't afford risk.  The list is eternal. The typical response is 'shop around!'  Which, of course is true.   But if it were that easy, wouldn't they?

And here we get to the rub.  Do you really believe that all those people paying all those fees are just stupid?  The answer is yes.  People really do believe that those people paying those fees really are just stupid and lazy.  They're not 'like them' or they wouldn't be in that position.    Poverty is the modern expression of Leprosy - visible evidence that you're a bad person inside, and prone to make bad choices.  "Badness" manifest.  If you just 'pulled yourself up' you'd be OK.

There are a lot of people in poverty because of bad choices.  There are a lot of people in poverty because they really are dumb - the DNA dice gave them minimal ability.  Life isn't fair.  My wife has spent 30 years swimming with the 'life isn't fair' crowd.  Some of them are bad people.  Some of them aren't.  They are people with the normal spread of good and bad and smart and stupid.  They're just like you.  Which is why people don't like to think about it.  That COULD be you.

But anyone that thinks the game isn't rigged is as lazy and stupid as the people they decry.  The banks use those fees to prop up their bottom line so they can give YOU free banking services.  YOU are benefiting because they're actively taking advantage of people who don't have alternatives.  That's just one example out of a laundry list of similar hurdles.  Systemic poverty exists though a thousand cuts as often as one big chop.

A few hours on google will lead you to peer reviewed studies and summaries and every piece of hard evidence you'd ever like to know.  Armed with that knowledge, you can go back to your favorite fortune 500 company and read their 10K and you'll start to notice that this is a feature.  Companies KNOW and CHOOSE to take advantage of the inherit nature of the poverty trap.  That's part of their profit margin and a source of how they can give you all those goodies!

This isn't a particularly debatable point. But it is emotionally hard to accept.  

That's why i keep saying the only difference between a democrat and a republican is the democrats feel bad after they fuck you.  But they're both still going to fuck you.

 

 

Someone gets it.

It's all of that and more.

The game is tipped against the truly poor in just about every single thing they do from the moment they wake to the moment they sleep.

 

The parking fine you got, because you over stayed the spot, because you had to stand in line at the phone shop to get your phone bill and internet reconnected...that fine represents a quarter of your weekly income and the next months phone bill..it represents the money you saved to pay re-connection fees.

a Story went viral on the internet a few years back about the pointlessness of hard work and why the poor don't save .

Woman made a single mistake, her health insurance didn't do dental and she had her front teeth smashed in an accident . She lost her job because of hospital time and no one would employ her in a job sufficent to pay her commitments because of her lack of teeth and how it all went downhill from there..or something. Wish I could find it.

 

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10 minutes ago, The Q said:

 A tiny terrace on a cheap estate on the wrong side of town.. We only just didn't lose ours

We sold our house ten years later for... exactly the same as we bought it for, there had been a major recession in between. Since I don''t have the right hand shake what's this word Promotion?

I'll point out I have never earnt the above the national average wage in the UK, just for 6 years working abroad was I over that level. I had to go aborad to make sure we didn't lose our house.

Yeah, England used to suck for those of my background. It's why my parents left 1970.

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2 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Yeah, England used to suck for those of my background. It's why my parents left 1970.

My parents were due to go to Oz in 1957, but I came along and probably would have been born on ship. So they didn't take the chance..

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8 minutes ago, The Q said:

My parents were due to go to Oz in 1957, but I came along and probably would have been born on ship. So they didn't take the chance..

It's what makes this whole boomer argument so silly. Many were born into poverty just like other generations. It's often the choices our parents made that define our success's or not. (I, like many tradesmens children was born on a council estate..literally..in the front bedroom)

Australia needed skilled labour in the post war period and paid the whole families passage...that's it.

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2 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Someone gets it. 

The majority aren't christ.   The majority aren't lepers.   The majority aren't apostles. 

The majority are Romans.   Not their problem.

History doesn't repeat but it does rhyme. 

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3 hours ago, Saorsa said:

All borrowing and/or investment involves some risk.  As I said " you need to consider all of your personal reasons to buy a house " in addition to that you need to consider the risks of home ownership.  A mill town is not a good place to own a house when the mill shuts down.  Having a large mortgage on it is not a good idea.  Taking out a HELOC to pay off your credit cards is a bad idea if you don't have the self discipline not to run the cards up to the limit again.

That's why fiscal responsibility should be a mandatory course in HS.

Course requirements would be mandated by the DeVos’s of the world, with the megabanks writing the syllabus.    It would be a federally required marketing device, to assure the working people are properly exploited.    

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20 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Everybody is "poor" at that age.  I was when I was their age but I chose to get over it.  Of course I didn't have credit cards then.

At age 35? 

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9 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

We were a very lucky generation. Sure hard work helped as well, but those that don't recognize we got a huge hand up from the times and circumstances are self deluding.

It cut both ways Shorty - the population bulge created its own problems like the 13.5% interest we paid on our first mortgage (friends paid 19%) because of the huge surge in demand for mortgage money.

I imagine Americans drafted into Vietnam might disagree with you a tad too.

We got lots of good and lots of bad handed to us.

Thinking it was all to our benefit is the rose coloured self delusion.

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6 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

It cut both ways Shorty - the population bulge created its own problems like the 13.5% interest we paid on our first mortgage (friends paid 19%) because of the huge surge in demand for mortgage money.

I imagine Americans drafted into Vietnam might disagree with you a tad too.

We got lots of good and lots of bad handed to us.

Thinking it was all to our benefit is the rose coloured self delusion.

Oh boy.

Would you like a list of things that made the world a more even playing field post 1945?

Not to recognise that does a great injustice to those of the previous generation all over the world who made huge sacrifices and you want to whine about one little war that some Americans died in?

Vietnam was huge for American boomers ...oh..and the Vietnamese ..the rest of the world's boomers? Not so much. 

 

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3 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I've seen quite enough of your one sided bullshit thanks.

I was there for almost all of what you refer to.

It's one sided bullshit to have the honesty and modesty to recognise that boomers weren't some amazing super race that singlehandedly saved the world? Right .

It's no wonder that everyone else despises us :rolleyes:

It somewhat annoys other later generations hearing about those interest rate hikes when we are sitting on all the property on Mayfair.

As for Vietnam...Stupid pointless war. Shameful waste. Sad for those who had to fight in it, sadder for those on both sides who were ruined by it but I fail to see it's relevance in this discussion...the baby boom was a world wide phenomena.  

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3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I've seen quite enough of your one sided bullshit thanks.

I was there for almost all of what you refer to.

So were a lot of Australians.

I don't have a lot of respect for SFB but don't put down the whole country or their contribution to the war.

 

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19 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Single Mums ?

That's bullshit and you know it.

Sure is. That explains how a close friend of mine who works hands-on in aged care and disability care (not the best paid work by any means) has never ever managed to get ahead despite working all her life - she's now 55.

Oh wait - she paid her house mortgage off 2 weeks ago and is now debt free.

How did she manage that? Pretty rigid discipline paying 50% of her take-home salary off of that mortgage to discharge it in 10 years rather than 25. No o/s holidays. No expensive cars. Just a focus on securing a place to live and not being at the mercy of the rental market.

Things *are* a lot harder now, mainly due to casualisation of jobs and ridiculous inflation of house prices, that's true.

However it's a fact that you can still get ahead if you're prepared to sacrifice and work your butt off.

FKT

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5 hours ago, Saorsa said:

So were a lot of Australians.

I don't have a lot of respect for SFB but don't put down the whole country or their contribution to the war.

 

She isn't Australian except by immigration. She wasn't born here. She doesn't have Australian school mates and relatives buried in war graves post Vietnam.

She's a Pom whose family moved here for a better life.

A lot more of my extended family died supporting UK wars than ever did in Vietnam. I never knew my paternal grandfather, gassed during WW1 and living a half-life for a couple decades afterwards in a repatriation hospital. Father exempt due to skills, spent the 2nd war building torpedoes. I was just too young for Vietnam, thank God.

Yeah most of the people my age were a very fortunate generation, that's true. But we threw a number under the bus so the rest of us could have a cushy life.

FKT

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19 hours ago, The Q said:

It was never 2X salary round here, Our first tiny terraced house in 1988 was 3X my salary +1 X the wifes and an 11% to 17.5 % interest rate..

 

18 hours ago, The Q said:

 A tiny terrace on a cheap estate on the wrong side of town.. We only just didn't lose ours

We sold our house ten years later for... exactly the same as we bought it for, there had been a major recession in between. Since I don''t have the right hand shake what's this word Promotion?

I'll point out I have never earnt the above the national average wage in the UK, just for 6 years working abroad was I over that level. I had to go aborad to make sure we didn't lose our house.

It sounds to me like you bought your first house sometime around 1990. If you were still in your early 20s then, you're well into GenX territory, and are entitled to feel aggrieved.

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18 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Sure is. That explains how a close friend of mine who works hands-on in aged care and disability care (not the best paid work by any means) has never ever managed to get ahead despite working all her life - she's now 55.

Oh wait - she paid her house mortgage off 2 weeks ago and is now debt free.

How did she manage that? Pretty rigid discipline paying 50% of her take-home salary off of that mortgage to discharge it in 10 years rather than 25. No o/s holidays. No expensive cars. Just a focus on securing a place to live and not being at the mercy of the rental market.

Things *are* a lot harder now, mainly due to casualisation of jobs and ridiculous inflation of house prices, that's true.

However it's a fact that you can still get ahead if you're prepared to sacrifice and work your butt off.

FKT

and not have any unanticipated disasters, errant husbands cleaning out your accounts, children sick for years or illness or or or.

Of course some people can and do try to work their way out of poverty, many fail.

 

Honestly, I thought you were smarter than citing "except fors"

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47 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

She isn't Australian except by immigration. She wasn't born here. She doesn't have Australian school mates and relatives buried in war graves post Vietnam.

She's a Pom whose family moved here for a better life.

A lot more of my extended family died supporting UK wars than ever did in Vietnam. I never knew my paternal grandfather, gassed during WW1 and living a half-life for a couple decades afterwards in a repatriation hospital. Father exempt due to skills, spent the 2nd war building torpedoes. I was just too young for Vietnam, thank God.

Yeah most of the people my age were a very fortunate generation, that's true. But we threw a number under the bus so the rest of us could have a cushy life.

FKT

Hmmm...seeing as there's only about 3 Australian servicemen still buried in war graves post Vietnam, I doubt there are many of my mates or yours buried over there.

I have an uncle buried somewhere in Burma but I don't presume on the connection.:rolleyes:

I only knew one of my grandparents..the others all died.Young

(1).Mining disaster age (44),

(2) cancer probably from railway filth (46)

(3)breast cancer (probably from rubber factory filth) (42). 

Australians never do understand what it was like to live in a European working class slum in the 1930-60's.

Listening to relatives of dead servicemen and women is like listening to a Python moan. service by proxy.

 

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1 hour ago, Battlecheese said:

 

It sounds to me like you bought your first house sometime around 1990. If you were still in your early 20s then, you're well into GenX territory, and are entitled to feel aggrieved.

1989 and I was 31/32

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1 hour ago, Shortforbob said:

Hmmm...seeing as there's only about 3 Australian servicemen still buried in war graves post Vietnam, I doubt there are many of my mates or yours buried over there.

Reading comprehension is still not your strong suit, is it?

I never said they were buried in war graves *in Vietnam* now did I?

My point stands - you aren't an Australian by birth. Your kids are, sure, but you're an involuntary migrant (as I assume your parents didn't give you the choice of staying back in the UK). You have no real idea of the history & culture of this place, any more than I would if I moved to the slums of Manchester.

FKT

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53 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Reading comprehension is still not your strong suit, is it?

I never said they were buried in war graves *in Vietnam* now did I?

My point stands - you aren't an Australian by birth. Your kids are, sure, but you're an involuntary migrant (as I assume your parents didn't give you the choice of staying back in the UK). You have no real idea of the history & culture of this place, any more than I would if I moved to the slums of Manchester.

FKT

That's totally illogical.

You seem to be saying that my kids (being 7 generation (white) australians by birth) must have more idea of the history and culture of place than someone who's lived here longer than they have.

Is knowledge of Australian culture and history some kind of parasitical growth that can only live in hosts with Birthcertificutus Australius genes? 

In my bottom draw i have a complete set of the "Dear Friends" series (Vanda Saville). The only other complete set is in the state library of Vic AFAIK.

https://www.google.com/search?q=vanda+saville+dear+friends&rlz=1C1CHBD_en-gbAU714AU714&oq=vanda+saville+dear+friends&aqs=chrome..69i57.9297j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

That set of hand written and photocopied books contains the minutia of life in the families of the Heywood district. 

I've browsed them over the years, the diary entries, the school photos, the local paper articles of daily events, sales, drunks, "lost and adopted"  aboriginal children and letters to loved ones.

I probably have a bit more knowledge about my little bit of the country than you do. Because culture and history is about a little more than National events and politics.

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10 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

However it's a fact that you can still get ahead if you're prepared to sacrifice and work your butt off.

FKT

Just like always.

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"OK Boomer!" love that saying.

So 1970 got out of the navy from the south china sea,  drove cross country , wife and daughter , Got a job making $3.33 an hour, worked for an electric company, 8-10- 12-16 hours a day sometimes 6 or 7 days a week and holidays, Funny how people want that electricity stuff. 

but worked hard , played hard and sailed even harder, ended up with enough to retired at 60 , free of debt and with a 40 footer , racer /cruiser, and small IRA

working 1/2 day to me was 12 hours, todays youth's 1/2 day is 3/4 hours, so put down your smart phone , get out of fucbook or twatter, learn a career and then the youger generation will be whinning about you, 

sorry just a bad thought waiting for the med's to kick in

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2 hours ago, garuda3 said:

 put down your smart phone , get out of fucbook or twatter, learn a career and then the youger generation will be whinning about you,

All they have to do is wait.

It'll happen - I guarantee it.

The first generation that perfects the world will be whined about by the next generation for not leaving anything for them to do.

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2 hours ago, garuda3 said:

working 1/2 day to me was 12 hours, todays youth's 1/2 day is 3/4 hours, so put down your smart phone , get out of fucbook or twatter, learn a career and then the youger generation will be whinning about you, 

 

The obvious question that begs is why?  Why don't 'today's youth' have the same proclivity?  Why aren't they like you?

Genetic drift in one generation does happen but that seems an unlikely answer given the number of people afflicted.

Is the technology just so addictive that there's no way 'today's youth' can resist?

 

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22 minutes ago, cmilliken said:

The obvious question that begs is why?  Why don't 'today's youth' have the same proclivity?  Why aren't they like you?

Genetic drift in one generation does happen but that seems an unlikely answer given the number of people afflicted.

Is the technology just so addictive that there's no way 'today's youth' can resist?

 

How about the ability to find an online community that supports whatever idea you have good or bad.  Peer pressure isn't local anymore and if your locals find you unacceptable you can find .

One horrible example is for an adult to pretend to be a child and prey on actual children who consider them a friend.  Most individuals or neighborhoods vs. 'online communities' don't let that happen.

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5 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

How about the ability to find an online community that supports whatever idea you have good or bad.  Peer pressure isn't local anymore and if your locals find you unacceptable you can find .

One horrible example is for an adult to pretend to be a child and prey on actual children who consider them a friend.  Most individuals or neighborhoods vs. 'online communities' don't let that happen.

That's the reason they don't work as much?

 

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One reason could just be the dearth of jobs that will allow you to work 12hrs per day 7 days per week?

Dunno about the USA, but finding permanent full time work here is tough. The workforce has been casualised (or temp contracted) for years and it's getting steadily worse.

Old IT gurus used to drop the contract work dollars and get full time permanent jobs once theyed made their packet contracting..not possible any more.

Job security or at least abundance is required to take on debt. Go ask the bank.

Some of you guys are not exactly trying to look beyond the smart phone and smashed avacado easy explanations are you?

Are you worried you might start feeling a little guilt.:rolleyes:

 

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4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Just like always.

just like bullshit.

most people in Australia earn less than $65,000 PA 

Most "homes" (2 bed apt) in Australia cost more than $450,000

Child care in Australia is highly regulated and even with government subsidies costs most of a second household wage.

I think I'd rather work part time, have no kids, rent and enjoy a smashed Avo on toast as well. (while playing on my smart phone)

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Fuck off Shorty - you're just bleeding all over.

Our first house cost $95K at 13.5% - I was earning $18K. It was a beater that we renovated from the studs ourselves.

After my wifes maternity leave ended I went on shift work so we could look after our own kids - no government subsidies - I was already in the highest income tax bracket, so there's that.

It's always been hard so quit with the Millennial whining by proxy.

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42 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

 

I think I'd rather work part time, have no kids, rent and enjoy a smashed Avo on toast as well. (while playing on my smart phone)

You like a smashed  AVO on toast? 

s-l300.jpg

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Shame you never got to learn 'strine :) 

Avo...Avocado 

 

it puzzles me why some of these old farts seemingly want their children's lives to be as miserable as their own were.

Each generation is superposed to improve the lives of the next, otherwise, what's the point of it all?

All work, little play makes Jack a mean old man..Eva Dently.

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52 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

just like bullshit.

most people in Australia earn less than $65,000 PA 

Most "homes" (2 bed apt) in Australia cost more than $450,000

Child care in Australia is highly regulated and even with government subsidies costs most of a second household wage.

I think I'd rather work part time, have no kids, rent and enjoy a smashed Avo on toast as well. (while playing on my smart phone)

https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs%40.nsf/mediareleasesbyCatalogue/030E8BEF4B0B915ECA2582EA00193B04?OpenDocument

Average weekly earnings $1,634.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/how-much-do-you-need-to-earn-to-be-rich-in-australia/news-story/cd7e6647199773c56ad5a9270c7aab87

If you’re a full-time worker and you earn more than $1261 a week (before tax and superannuation) then you are earning more than half of all other workers, aged 15 years and older. This equates to $65,577 a year.

So, you're wrong. I realise that you have no grasp of statistics so just take my word for it, you're wrong.

FKT

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11 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Shame you never got to learn 'strine :) 

Avo...Avocado 

 

it puzzles me why some of these old farts seemingly want their children's lives to be as miserable as their own were.

Each generation is superposed to improve the lives of the next, otherwise, what's the point of it all?

All work, little play makes Jack a mean old man..Eva Dently.

Pretty funny - my kids have a lot easier time of it than I and my first wife did. And both of us started from very much lower middle class/working class parents. Fitter/welder and seamstress parents and fitter/instrument make and canteen worker parents. My 2 daughters still live basically rent-free with their mother in one of the houses I built. That alone took years of hard physical work after normal work hours and every weekend/holiday for years. My kids basically grew up in a building site.

We were bright, we worked hard and we took advantage of the opportunities we could find or make.

Don't moan to me about house 'values' - I'm on record as saying I'd like to see a truly massive price deflation in housing due to people treating a place to live as an 'investment' to make them rich. No skin off of my nose as I'm not planning on selling. All those people with $500K ++ mortgages may have a different opinion though.

FKT

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2 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

One reason could just be the dearth of jobs that will allow you to work 12hrs per day 7 days per week?

 

Not my choice to work those hours we weren't allowed to, we had too , cause even back then people wanted there lights on, ask any ultilty worker that after a hurricane, snow/ice /wind storm , heat waves other natural disaster how many hours a week he works , so you have electricity. We would have crews from all over the country . and even then recourses were limited, 

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So why don't the youth of today have the same "hard work" ethic as the Boomers?

What changed?

Assuming there was no mass mutation (not a genetic answer) and if there's not a structural reason, then the only alternative left is Gen X simply chose to spite their boomer parents and raise fuck wad little shits out of spite.

Personally, I believe its structural and have given my reasons.  I don't believe the genetic answer - far to few generations and far to broad impact.  And I'm sure there were a few pissed off Gen Xers but I tend to doubt that has the breadth of impact.

There is one other answer - Fake news.  There really is no massive concentration of wealth.  Lies, damn lies, and statistics.  Things are as they've always been and it's just sensationalization.

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1 hour ago, garuda3 said:

Not my choice to work those hours we weren't allowed to, we had too , cause even back then people wanted there lights on, ask any ultilty worker that after a hurricane, snow/ice /wind storm , heat waves other natural disaster how many hours a week he works , so you have electricity. We would have crews from all over the country . and even then recourses were limited, 

IIRC some years ago there was a bush fire bearing down on Canberra. The fire fighters were instructed to stop work after 8 hours - OH&S issues you know.

The fire didn't recognise normal working hours though. It didn't end well.

I used to do 12 hrs on/12 off for up to 3 months straight in one of my jobs.

FKT

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2 hours ago, cmilliken said:

So why don't the youth of today have the same "hard work" ethic as the Boomers?

What changed?

Assuming there was no mass mutation (not a genetic answer) and if there's not a structural reason, then the only alternative left is Gen X simply chose to spite their boomer parents and raise fuck wad little shits out of spite.

Personally, I believe its structural and have given my reasons.  I don't believe the genetic answer - far to few generations and far to broad impact.  And I'm sure there were a few pissed off Gen Xers but I tend to doubt that has the breadth of impact.

There is one other answer - Fake news.  There really is no massive concentration of wealth.  Lies, damn lies, and statistics.  Things are as they've always been and it's just sensationalization.

 

No, things are not "as they've always been." The playing field is tilted a lot harder than it used to be.

I also think that leadership standards have slipped and this reflects in the "work ethic" of those being poorly led.

- DSK

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28 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

I also think that leadership standards have slipped and this reflects in the "work ethic" of those being poorly led.

 

Interesting you say about leadership, our POTUS has played over 115 million dollars of tax payers Money to GOLF.? It's all about making money not doing the right thing,          He won't allow aides to testify , he won't show his taxes? what's he hiding? must be pretty bad! so if we have no workethic at the top what do you expect?

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4 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

IIRC some years ago there was a bush fire bearing down on Canberra. The fire fighters were instructed to stop work after 8 hours - OH&S issues you know.

The fire didn't recognise normal working hours though. It didn't end well.

I used to do 12 hrs on/12 off for up to 3 months straight in one of my jobs.

FKT

You want the fire fighters to work until they drop fighting fires? I should bloody well hope they were told to stand down after 8 hours. Their lives are worth more than someon'es house.

And ah used tuh live in  matchbox on t'side o t' rawd, thur wu tin of us.

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

 

I also think that leadership standards have slipped and this reflects in the "work ethic" of those being poorly led.

- DSK

There is that. 30 years of promoting idiots out of harms way will do that.

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32 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

You want the fire fighters to work until they drop fighting fires? I should bloody well hope they were told to stand down after 8 hours. Their lives are worth more than someon'es house.

And ah used tuh live in  matchbox on t'side o t' rawd, thur wu tin of us.

You’ve got no fucking idea . Been getting a bit sick reading the gimme gimme gimme generations.

During depression mum  as a kid lived for a while in tin shed on track between Bne. and Indooroopilly  with grandma and two sisters ,Grandpa ,  pissed off never to be seen . Said he going Cain cutting.. Her only clothes were what she wore .Until grandma found work  as housekeeper they had a large tin of honey  and relied of the baker going past every second day to give them bread aside from what they could scrounge. Her total schooling was two days.

I am a WW11 war baby ,now known as a Baby Boomer ,fucked if I know why anyway. Dad was great but useless after the war , booze, and on more than one occasion I would have to  cash in milk bottles to buy food and used cardboard to line inside school shoes when holes in soles  until we  could afford to buy some leather . Ps. The greasy cardboard used by fruitiers was best , split.

University was only for those who got scholarship or who parents could afford until Gough came along.I wasn’t smart enough .

Got married at 22 .To save for deposit on house and pay home loan aside from normal  9to 5 job drove taxis three nights a week ,4hours, plus saturdays ,12 hrs, and cleaned printing presses in basement at old herald building flinders Street every second Sunday after sporting globe printed and night school . Wife did night shift nursing Sat/Sun night. Honeymoon was one week at Phillip Island .Rode a 150cc Suzuki Stinger 24 miles from home to work each day .Fucking had it easy hey. 

There was no compulsory Superannuation until 1990/91. So for my twenty years of super  I contributed an extra 25% so that I did not sponge off govt in retirement . No big overseas holidays mate. Oh ,there was super before then ,if you were lucky, but unless it was with govt  usually it was employer 2% , me 1% . If I left job employer took their contribution back and I got mine plus savings bank interest.

Not  all Baby Boomers live in Syd/Melb . If your parents do what’s your fucking problem ,one hell of an inheritance on the way , mine was <$30,000 being one of six.  

Now I actually agree that anyone living in a $mil plus house and on pension should be for example taxed a death tax of say 30% but I’ll bloody fight anyone who tries to take my franking credits or other benefits I have earned to give to my kids when I cark it.

Its my fucking money and I’m enjoying retirement with a boat and a Merc . so suck it up get down to Centrelink for your handout and go smoke a bomb . 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

You want the fire fighters to work until they drop fighting fires? I should bloody well hope they were told to stand down after 8 hours. Their lives are worth more than someon'es house.

And ah used tuh live in  matchbox on t'side o t' rawd, thur wu tin of us.

You really have no idea at all, do you? You've lived a safe little suburban life all the 60 years of your existence.

If there are teams available to swap in, sure, you stand people down. But that's generally not how things go. I hope you never have to find out personally. And yeah, been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

FKT

 

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7 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

You want the fire fighters to work until they drop fighting fires? I should bloody well hope they were told to stand down after 8 hours. Their lives are worth more than someon'es house.

You can't fight fires for 8 hours straight.

You do what you can in the cool of morning. Then as the wind and heat gets up, you sit back and let it go. If safe, you do some backburning, fuel clearing etc,at an easy pace.

Come night time you get stuck in again for a few hours. 

Sleep

Repeat.

Hope like fuck for a cool change, cause what you are doing isn't really achieving shit.

I was 8km out along a handline north of Poatina when my 8 hours was up. WTF was I supposed to do, call a uber?

Getting paid to fight fires was hard work, but good money for a uni student. Protecting neighbours properties was harder as a RFB member. In neither case did anyone watch the clock. Blokes didn't drop, but their mates sent them home if they could.

Folks who live their lives in the big cities really don't understand Australia. It's not your fault, how could you know any better?

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1 hour ago, Se7en said:

You can't fight fires for 8 hours straight.

You do what you can in the cool of morning. Then as the wind and heat gets up, you sit back and let it go. If safe, you do some backburning, fuel clearing etc,at an easy pace.

Come night time you get stuck in again for a few hours. 

Sleep

Repeat.

Hope like fuck for a cool change, cause what you are doing isn't really achieving shit.

I was 8km out along a handline north of Poatina when my 8 hours was up. WTF was I supposed to do, call a uber?

Getting paid to fight fires was hard work, but good money for a uni student. Protecting neighbours properties was harder as a RFB member. In neither case did anyone watch the clock. Blokes didn't drop, but their mates sent them home if they could.

Folks who live their lives in the big cities really don't understand Australia. It's not your fault, how could you know any better?

Maybe folks from Australia don't understand the US as well as they think.

Where would you take your tea break with this wildfire burning through?

california_fire_020.jpg

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