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Everglades Challenge 2020


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I'm so sorry for everyone effected by this loss. There are so many things that can go wrong, whether driving home from work of forgetting to clip in when you are sailing. I've done the R2AK race solo and it takes one hell of a lot of clarity and focus to keep the boat going. Fatigue makes it all more dangerous, just like when driving home from work. Life is dangerous. These kind of events make life worth living for lots of us, so the risks have to be taken or the world gets very dull.

I'm an admirer of Graham Brynes's designs. I don't know how the safety of the Core Sound boats relates to comparable boats, but I'll bet they rate pretty high. They have a very low center of gravity, water ballast, and small rigs. 

 

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It has been an incredibly long and sad day to be a Tribe member today.  Not good news, which you all already know.  Like BravoBravo I had been glued to the tracker as Sailorman wandered farther and fa

I'll have more to say at length later. First of all, everyone is crushed by the apparent loss of Sailorman. I do think the fact that he didn't signal that he was having problems is indicative of somet

Sorry to hear that they have not found Sailorman. But before this turns into Manifestly Unsafe Voyage Anarchy, how about a few pics from yesterday? Zippy just off Everglades City:

Posted Images

7 hours ago, TBW said:

Solo on a beat up Dart 18.  Thats what it's all about.  Going to buy the man a beer in Key Largo.

Another pic of Cat5 in Chokoloskee Bay. The race rules require that extra reef point. Having to actually use it seems like it would be an "are we having fun yet" situation. :lol:

Cat5Rig.jpg

 

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7 hours ago, NYBOZO1 said:

I have watched this bunch sail down Sarasota Bay the last few years.  Was amusing to see such contraptions.

Now they just look like shit boats that have no business in open water.

RIP Sailorman.

Here's my list of boats that can be pushed off a beach and yet belong dozens of miles out in the Gulf in a blow:

 

 

 

.

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I'll have more to say at length later. First of all, everyone is crushed by the apparent loss of Sailorman. I do think the fact that he didn't signal that he was having problems is indicative of something other than the conditions was the root cause. A couple of years ago, a kayaker died on the EC after having a heart attack while on the water in the ICW. Going solo is much more dangerous than going two up. A minor health issue can when solo could easily cascade into a much worse situation that would not occur if you had a teamate. One member of a two person boat this year had severe muscle cramps, hypothermia, seasickness, and diarrhea right after the start. He was of no help sailing the boat durng all this and thankfully his partner got them both in safely, dropping out in Venice. 

 

After watching the the waves busting on the bows of shipping traffic in Tampa Bay, we elected to go plan B and launched further down the course. No sense breaking the boat in the first couple of miles. Saturday night in Charlotte Harbor and Machatla Pass were very cold. This was the first year I wore a drysuit for the entire race and I was glad I did. Saturday and Sunday were also notable for the very gusty conditions. Most of the time the winds were in the 12-15 knot range but you could expect random 20+ gusts every so often. This made for a difficult time. 

We spent a lot of time beating this year in rough seas, not fun in a Hobie TI. We had to beat across Charlotte Harbor on Saturday night, up Gullivan Bay on Sunday night, into Indian Key Pass on Monday afternoon, from Chokoloskee Pass to Pavilion Key Monday evening, then pretty much all the way down to Shark River the next day. We beat up Joe River in the Everglades and then yesterday we went the 30 miles across Florida Bay dead to windward the whole day . Yesterday I was on the pedals all day from about 430 am to when we finished at 730pm. We were the first in our class to finish, but I'd have to put an asterisk on it because we started south of Tampa Bay. 

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32 minutes ago, MisterMoon said:

I'll have more to say at length later. First of all, everyone is crushed by the apparent loss of Sailorman. I do think the fact that he didn't signal that he was having problems is indicative of something other than the conditions was the root cause. A couple of years ago, a kayaker died on the EC after having a heart attack while on the water in the ICW. Going solo is much more dangerous than going two up. A minor health issue can when solo could easily cascade into a much worse situation that would not occur if you had a teamate. One member of a two person boat this year had severe muscle cramps, hypothermia, seasickness, and diarrhea right after the start. He was of no help sailing the boat durng all this and thankfully his partner got them both in safely, dropping out in Venice. 

 

After watching the the waves busting on the bows of shipping traffic in Tampa Bay, we elected to go plan B and launched further down the course. No sense breaking the boat in the first couple of miles. Saturday night in Charlotte Harbor and Machatla Pass were very cold. This was the first year I wore a drysuit for the entire race and I was glad I did. Saturday and Sunday were also notable for the very gusty conditions. Most of the time the winds were in the 12-15 knot range but you could expect random 20+ gusts every so often. This made for a difficult time. 

We spent a lot of time beating this year in rough seas, not fun in a Hobie TI. We had to beat across Charlotte Harbor on Saturday night, up Gullivan Bay on Sunday night, into Indian Key Pass on Monday afternoon, from Chokoloskee Pass to Pavilion Key Monday evening, then pretty much all the way down to Shark River the next day. We beat up Joe River in the Everglades and then yesterday we went the 30 miles across Florida Bay dead to windward the whole day . Yesterday I was on the pedals all day from about 430 am to when we finished at 730pm. We were the first in our class to finish, but I'd have to put an asterisk on it because we started south of Tampa Bay. 

 

EC20201.jpg

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3 hours ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

Here's my list of boats that can be pushed off a beach and yet belong dozens of miles out in the Gulf in a blow:

 

 

 

.

That's unfair isn't it?  While you DO have to push off the beach you do NOT have to be dozens on miles out in the Gulf in a blow.  That last bit is a personal decision.  Faster but more risky to go outside.  I have friends in the race. Feel terrible about the whole thing.  But this event or even just sailing the course is all about making sound prudent decisions.  Many have successfully sailed this course and event.  Year after year. This boat has successfully sailed this course. 

Once the decision was made to go outside the likelihood of a bad outcome increased significantly.  WT couldn't save him.  A tether couldn't save him.  Even the USCG couldn't save him.  Sadly, the only thing that would have saved him was a different decision or different conditions.... or maybe a drysuit and PLB set off very early as events transpired. 

Feel really terrible for the guy.  Feel terrible for those sailing in the event.  But I really don't understand the shade being thrown at the WT organizers or boat or rules re required equipment.

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42 minutes ago, MisterMoon said:

I'll have more to say at length later. First of all, everyone is crushed by the apparent loss of Sailorman. I do think the fact that he didn't signal that he was having problems is indicative of something other than the conditions was the root cause.

The most confusing thing to me is that he did repeatedly signal that he was not having problems by pressing the "OK" button on his SPOT. During those hours, the conditions must have been nasty where he was.

1 minute ago, Wess said:
3 hours ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

Here's my list of boats that can be pushed off a beach and yet belong dozens of miles out in the Gulf in a blow:

 

 

 

.

That's unfair isn't it?  While you DO have to push off the beach you do NOT have to be dozens on miles out in the Gulf in a blow.  That last bit is a personal decision.  Faster but more risky to go outside.

That's why there are no boats on the list. There's "outside" and then there's waaaay outside. None of the boats in this or any other EC seem like boats that should be way out there in a blow.

And if you did wind up there, I can't see how it would seem "OK."

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12 minutes ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

The most confusing thing to me is that he did repeatedly signal that he was not having problems by pressing the "OK" button on his SPOT. During those hours, the conditions must have been nasty where he was.

That's why there are no boats on the list. There's "outside" and then there's waaaay outside. None of the boats in this or any other EC seem like boats that should be way out there in a blow.

And if you did wind up there, I can't see how it would seem "OK."

That is my objection !....WT shore management was notified of the "something is wrong with this picture" factoring the distance from shore and lack of ANY tactical reason to be in that location, night had fallen, winds where predicated to be increasing, at some point the Water Tribe Creed of you are on your own and it has potential to be very dangerous needs to be overridden from a WT event to a potential emergency situation and error on cautions side and deal with the possible unnecessary call for help later. WT shore management was notified around 8 PM Sunday night...when was the CG notified ? and what transpired between WT becoming aware and when the SAR was initiated. As far as I can tell the first an only WT/FB page comment was a short "the CG helo was in the air " around noon on Monday valuable time in between regardless of whether it would/could have made a difference...this is about being responsible from the top and doing the right thing !

 

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44 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

Race organizers are not responsible for organizing offshore rescues. If they become so, it is the end or organized sailboat  racing everywhere as we know it. Captains have responsibility for having their own 'rescue protocol' in place. Onshore contacts,  onboard safety gear, communication equipment, TRAINING, etc.      The government can't be expected to follow every racer that goes off course, someone else has to blow the rescue whistle first, and its not he race organizer.  By the way they were also busy rescuing the 2 cat sailors 2 miles off the beach.  It's an adventure race where the risks are well known and assumed and self reliance is drilled into every participant.  You are told not to expect or be guaranteed a rescue  People have died in it before. They can and will happily assist of course, but it's not the job of the organizer once they leave the beach . 

Word.  Thank you for injecting some sanity.  If the guy is pressing OK and not help on the spot, or not setting off his PLB there is nothing anyone other than his family and/or designated shore crew could or should do.

The real problem here is too many sailors... event entrants... are making unsafe, imprudent decisions when safer more prudent options exist. And sooner or later its that which is going to kill events like the EC and/or R2AK and that is a shame. 

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

That's unfair isn't it?  While you DO have to push off the beach you do NOT have to be dozens on miles out in the Gulf in a blow.  That last bit is a personal decision.  Faster but more risky to go outside.  I have friends in the race. Feel terrible about the whole thing.  But this event or even just sailing the course is all about making sound prudent decisions.  Many have successfully sailed this course and event.  Year after year. This boat has successfully sailed this course. 

Once the decision was made to go outside the likelihood of a bad outcome increased significantly.  WT couldn't save him.  A tether couldn't save him.  Even the USCG couldn't save him.  Sadly, the only thing that would have saved him was a different decision or different conditions.... or maybe a drysuit and PLB set off very early as events transpired. 

Feel really terrible for the guy.  Feel terrible for those sailing in the event.  But I really don't understand the shade being thrown at the WT organizers or boat or rules re required equipment.

“The purpose of WaterTribe is to encourage the development of boats, equipment, skills and human athletic performance for safe and efficient coastal cruising using minimal impact human and wind powered watercraft based on sea kayaks, canoes, and small sailboats.” ~ Chief, February 2000

Regrettably the chosen outside route in the forecast conditions, one-up, or at least not in the time-tested WT buddy-system convoy with (an)other WT craft, departed from the above statement.

DKHT

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33 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

I'm puzzled by the "OK" button. Can someone please explain this? I've never used SPOT (is that what it is?). Was he receiving messages that he was directly responding to?

In the EC, you are supposed to have your SPOT tracking.  If you make a major course alteration, you are to hit okay.  If you get trhough a nasty blow, you are supposed to hit okay to let race organisers/shore contact that you are okay.  If you don't make a major course alteration or encounter a storm, then you are supposed to hit okay every few hours to let folks know you are okay.  It means you are okay.

Hit sos if in life threatening situation.

Custom message can be what ever you want.

 

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29 minutes ago, Wess said:

The real problem here is too many sailors... event entrants... are making unsafe, imprudent decisions when safer more prudent options exist. And sooner or later its that which is going to kill events like the EC and/or R2AK and that is a shame. 

I did two solo races on my F-27 years ago, the first was Chicago to Port Huron, and the second was just Chicago to Mackinac.  The unsafe, imprudent decisions are largely due to lack of sleep.  I suffered hallucinations in both races and made some bad decisions.  Very few options on course as you had to get from A to B as quickly as possible.  EC organizers are likely to restrict vessels to stay within xx miles from shore on the outside route.  Maybe have volunteers lined up to assist vessels that require help.

I can say from experience, it's a lot better to not die while doing something you enjoy.  This hits a nerve and I hope I haven't offended anyone.  

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2 hours ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

The most confusing thing to me is that he did repeatedly signal that he was not having problems by pressing the "OK" button on his SPOT. During those hours, the conditions must have been nasty where he was. 

This. So much this.

As a member of the Tribe, but having not raced yet (still working out the perfect boat for me), I've been asking myself how their shore crew should have responded to this situation. Not, mind you, the race organization. This is NOT their responsibility. I've landed on the conclusion that I can't answer that for them, as I don't know what they know about Sailorman. Maybe they had supreme confidence that the "OK" message actually meant he was OK. Maybe they should have known that repeated "OK" messages sent as he's drifting steadily offshore meant that he was suffering from exhaustion and needed help despite the inherent meaning of "OK."

It has prompted me to rethink race plan development with my shore contact - something along the lines of "If I wander outside these geographic parameters, assume things are wrong no matter which buttons I'm pressing on the damn Spot."

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1 hour ago, DonKeyHoTey said:

“The purpose of WaterTribe is to encourage the development of boats, equipment, skills and human athletic performance for safe and efficient coastal cruising using minimal impact human and wind powered watercraft based on sea kayaks, canoes, and small sailboats.” ~ Chief, February 2000

Regrettably the chosen outside route in the forecast conditions, one-up, or at least not in the time-tested WT buddy-system convoy with (an)other WT craft, departed from the above statement.

DKHT

One thing is obvious. Cats are fast and can go a lot further quicker than a guy paddling. 

But hey, we knew that already. Keep the course inside. 

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53 minutes ago, Porter42 said:

 (still working out the perfect boat for me), 

Let us know when you find it ;)

 

I thought I had a pretty goodset up this year but couldn't get myself to cp2.  Head wind sucked. Last time just took an old beater boat and finished fine.  Seems every year is different.

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Sadly the WT management can not insulated themselves with the language in their agreement, if they have knowledge of potential life and death circumstances unfolding. I don’t know what the qualifications of the shore contact are in this case or if they were even aware or able to recognize the developing dangerous circumstances, WT was alerted, what they did and when they did is the issue now. You can not simply watch something like this unfold a hide behind the spirit and creed that Chief has declared 

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8 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Sadly the WT management can not insulated themselves with the language in their agreement, if they have knowledge of potential life and death circumstances unfolding. I don’t know what the qualifications of the shore contact are in this case or if they were even aware or able to recognize the developing dangerous circumstances, WT was alerted, what they is the issue now. You can not simply watch something like this unfold a hide behind the spirit and creed that Chief has declared 

Enough already. As has been repeatedly pointed out, Sailorman was repeatedly pressing his "OK" button. That, combined with the general principal that the race organizers do not have the responsibility that you're trying to pin on them, is sufficient.

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3 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

That is my objection !....WT shore management was notified of the "something is wrong with this picture" factoring the distance from shore and lack of ANY tactical reason to be in that location, night had fallen, winds where predicated to be increasing, at some point the Water Tribe Creed of you are on your own and it has potential to be very dangerous needs to be overridden from a WT event to a potential emergency situation and error on cautions side and deal with the possible unnecessary call for help later. WT shore management was notified around 8 PM Sunday night...when was the CG notified ? and what transpired between WT becoming aware and when the SAR was initiated. As far as I can tell the first an only WT/FB page comment was a short "the CG helo was in the air " around noon on Monday valuable time in between regardless of whether it would/could have made a difference...this is about being responsible from the top and doing the right thing !

 

You don't know what did or didn't happen WRT notification. I know some, but not all and it's not my place to post it here. So give it a rest. 

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1 minute ago, MisterMoon said:

You don't know what did or didn't happen WRT notification. I know some, but not all and it's not my place to post it here. So give it a rest. 

I know some too... especially the early WT alert 

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I hope this guys family takes this up with with a lawyer.....no current registration on boats.....they shouldn't be on the water...period...and the race organizers have responsibility to some degree.....I think this is a great event and really look forward to seeing the boats come by in Bonita Beach....one suggestion ....why don't you participants do some serious self policing and get together with the event owners and make sure the inspections are done properly and spend some serious time on safety  to try an avoid things like this....I've been around enough races to know when people get in a boat they sometimes leave common sense on shore.....I hope this event stays around but I think the ownership needs to be held accountable ....

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9 minutes ago, shavdog said:

I hope this guys family takes this up with with a lawyer.....no current registration on boats.....they shouldn't be on the water...period...and the race organizers have responsibility to some degree.....

There is a basic human responsibility!

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18 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

WTF does a Florida registration sticker have to do with safety. (Hint: nothing at all.)

Comments like this is why there has to be common sense rules and monitoring in place......you said safety.....read what I wrote.....Boats without current registration should not be on the water...that leads me to believe the race organizers aren't doing their job at inspecting....If I were doing it, it's very likey half of you would be going home before the start....a cat came by our condo with out of date registration....first thing I noticed..

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Whats the big deal about registration?  A lot of boats come from states and provinces that don't even require small boats to be registered.  How would race organisers ever keep track of the rules of 50 some states, 10 provinces and where ever else boats come from?   Seems like a red herring to me.

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40 minutes ago, shavdog said:

Comments like this is why there has to be common sense rules and monitoring in place......you said safety.....read what I wrote.....Boats without current registration should not be on the water...that leads me to believe the race organizers aren't doing their job at inspecting....If I were doing it, it's very likey half of you would be going home before the start....a cat came by our condo with out of date registration....first thing I noticed..

Bad form to "answer" by editing your post. Just reply fer chrissakes:/

Registration has absofuckinglutely nothing to do with safety. NOTHING. It is a TAX. Period. There is no inspection of boats for registration. No human ever inspects it. You simply fill out a form and get your stickers after paying $100, $150, $200, $500, $1500 or whatever applies to your boat based on size (depending on state etc).


Did you know that for unpowered vessels, the only FEDERAL requirements have to do with flotation? That's right. And only up to 20 feet. There are NO RULES regarding structure, arrangement, etc etc etc. It (as it should be) is up to the BOATER to figure out what is appropriate.

(The flotation requirement is a VOLUNTARY COMPLIANCE system, required both for manufactured as well as one off owner built boats. The way the rules are written it is a problem--they are based on actual physical testing. Translating this into mathematics for design is actually much more difficult and time consuming than doing the maths for a tanker or a tugboat or other commercial vessels.) Noting that the boat in the current situation is floating, I doubt that was a problem....

The race organizer has no authority or expertise to vet boats based on federal requirements of the boats themselves, nor the state registrations. Yes the race can require certain equipment---(much of which is required by state or fed for voyage such as flares, sound producing device etc).

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5 hours ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

The most confusing thing to me is that he did repeatedly signal that he was not having problems by pressing the "OK" button on his SPOT. During those hours, the conditions must have been nasty where he was.

If the SPOT was transmitting truly new updates, he was upright assuming it was transmitting from his deck.  The frequency where it operates does not appreciably penetrate sea water.  I share your confusion.

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Sailboats canoes and kayaks have no flotation requirements. But human powered do. This can be a gray area of course...

https://gov.ecfr.io/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=2df192e33c7411135ee443447440e618&mc=true&node=se33.2.183_137&rgn=div8

https://gov.ecfr.io/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=2df192e33c7411135ee443447440e618&mc=true&node=se33.2.183_131&rgn=div8

Note that canoes and kayaks are in fact given geometrical guidance notes that are NOT part of the CFR. You have to ask for them!

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4 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

If the SPOT was transmitting truly new updates, he was upright assuming it was transmitting from his deck.  The frequency where it operates does not appreciably penetrate sea water.  I share your confusion.

Technology nannyism fail.

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1 hour ago, shavdog said:

....a cat came by our condo with out of date registration....

If it didn't have a current registration number how do you know it was even a Florida boat?  

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I have been fllowing this thread with great interest.  I don't feel qualified to contribute much to it, though.  But I did find one trivial detail that is hardly worth pointing out but I am going to anyway.  And, I do have one, much more serious observation I would also like to contribute.

Trivial detail:

8 hours ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

Here's my list of boats that can be pushed off a beach and yet belong dozens of miles out in the Gulf in a blow:

 

 

 

.

 

6 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

 

EC20201.jpg

PT, in the background of the photo of MisterMoon's ride is a Tremolino.  I owned a Tremolino for 13 years and regularly sailed it up to 25 miles offshore.  I even pushed it off the beach a few times.  So I believe it does belong on your list.

 

Now on a much more serious note.  I am very sorry for the pain and grief that Sailorman's family and friends have to endure.  But,  I don't feel bad for Sailorman.  I know that in 2020 a person 73 years old isn't considered ancient and on death's door, but, Sailorman died doing what he loved.  That beats the hell of enduring a debilitating disease for several years only to die anyway.  When my ticket gets punched I hope I am sailing or surfing or getting laid.  RIP Sailorman, you exited in style.

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17 minutes ago, TBW said:

If it didn't have a current registration number how do you know it was even a Florida boat?  

The boat that was lost had Florida numbers on it but no current year sticker. In fact no year stickers. It could have been a former FL boat. Or a FL boat that had no sticker. Doesn't matter. I have Ohio stickers on one of my boats. With expired O year sticker. I don't live there. It is a type of boat not required to be registered in my state. Nobody fucking cares.

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3 minutes ago, unShirley said:

I have been fllowing this thread with great interest.  I don't feel qualified to contribute much to it, though.  But I did find one trivial detail that is hardly worth pointing out but I am going to anyway.  And, I do have one, much more serious observation I would also like to contribute.

Trivial detail:

 

PT, in the background of the photo of MisterMoon's ride is a Tremolino.  I owned a Tremolino for 13 years and regularly sailed it up to 25 miles offshore.  I even pushed it off the beach a few times.  So I believe it does belong on your list.

 

Now on a much more serious note.  I am very sorry for the pain and grief that Sailorman's family and friends have to endure.  But,  I don't feel bad for Sailorman.  I know that in 2020 a person 73 years old isn't considered ancient and on death's door, but, Sailorman died doing what he loved.  That beats the hell of enduring a debilitating disease for several years only to die anyway.  When my ticket gets punched I hope I am sailing or surfing or getting laid.  RIP Sailorman, you exited in style.

My wife and I were just talking about someone a couple days ago--a friend of a relative--who died after playing tennis. Sadly he was younger (40s) but he had a good job (a great job) a big life insurance policy and he was dead the minute he fell over. Better than the "good death" being mauled by the big bear in that movie...

PS tell me more about Tremolino. Pics? Obviously not the Francis Kinney TREMOLINO.

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1 hour ago, unShirley said:

I have been fllowing this thread with great interest.  I don't feel qualified to contribute much to it, though.  But I did find one trivial detail that is hardly worth pointing out but I am going to anyway.  And, I do have one, much more serious observation I would also like to contribute.

Trivial detail:

 

PT, in the background of the photo of MisterMoon's ride is a Tremolino.  I owned a Tremolino for 13 years and regularly sailed it up to 25 miles offshore.  I even pushed it off the beach a few times.  So I believe it does belong on your list.

 

Now on a much more serious note.  I am very sorry for the pain and grief that Sailorman's family and friends have to endure.  But,  I don't feel bad for Sailorman.  I know that in 2020 a person 73 years old isn't considered ancient and on death's door, but, Sailorman died doing what he loved.  That beats the hell of enduring a debilitating disease for several years only to die anyway.  When my ticket gets punched I hope I am sailing or surfing or getting laid.  RIP Sailorman, you exited in style.

I am not saying Mr Moons tri should not be 25 miles offshore, that is just a component, Mr Moon should not have been in that same location under the same conditions , the other part of the equation is that there was NO tactical reason to be in that position NONE!!!... that along with the other elements is a HUGE fucking red flag that transcends Tribe Creed... brainwashed cult !!!

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Lets get back to the event....anyone finish today....post some pictures if you can....congratulations to the participants..... what happened to the three boarders that I saw go by?

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There are other issues which I know about...not my place to post here.  There are other issues that were part of the situation. Do note that some people closest to him and last contact etc are not posting. There is a lot of speculation here on this thread and key information is not part of the discussion.

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3 hours ago, fastyacht said:

My wife and I were just talking about someone a couple days ago--a friend of a relative--who died after playing tennis. Sadly he was younger (40s) but he had a good job (a great job) a big life insurance policy and he was dead the minute he fell over. Better than the "good death" being mauled by the big bear in that movie...

Another small child died today from a not-as-friendly-as it-looked pit bull.

And we still have thread whiners here railing against doing what you like while sailing. 

 

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I don't think I got any pictures on the water.  I was too busy trying to stsy upright.  Have some start line pics.  

SCAMP

Nacra Carbon 20

Kruger with BSD

Great diversity.

20200312_184217.jpg

20200312_184205.jpg

20200312_184239.jpg

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Not sure whats been covered wh regards to finishers, but pretty sure a boat in each class has finished.

First was Nacra Carbon 20 

Second was a Hobie 18

3rd and 4th werebeach cats.

5th was first monohull Core Sound 22

First Class 2 Iron Bob and the Juice in a Stellar 21 with a Falcon sail.

First Class 1 Epic 18.  I thought he was listed as having a Falcon sail, but when he passed me I didn't see one.  Might have left it behind when he saw the forecast.

First Class 3 I beleive was a Mixed team in a Kruger Cruiser with BSD.

My last check no SUPers had finished, I think one had to withdraw.

I think thats right any way.

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2 hours ago, shavdog said:

Lets get back to the event....anyone finish today....post some pictures if you can....congratulations to the participants..... what happened to the three boarders that I saw go by?

I know Veteranvoyage360 dropped out after getting sick, probably rhabdo. Conquistador is moving across FL Bay right now, will probably finish overnight. 

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My bride who knows who everyone is just told me at least two more SUPs are moving well through and around the Everglades. ChesapeakeTJAM is on the Joe River about 6 miles from Flamingo and will arrive in the next hour or so. Staright is at NW Cape. Conchistador appears to taking a rest on the Key to the north of where Tin Can Channel ends and (the old*) Dump Key pass begins. 

* I was surprised to find this year that they pulled all the markers out of Dump Key pass and moved it a good ways south. We went through anyway with some good tracks from years past, but it was shallow and weedy and we touched bottom a few times. Also a suprise was the fact they moved Jimmy Channel north about a third of a mile. The new channel is wider and deeper than the old. Twisty Mile still kind of sucks, but at least you feel like you accomplished something when you complete it. 

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On 3/12/2020 at 5:20 AM, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

Another pic of Cat5 in Chokoloskee Bay. The race rules require that extra reef point. Having to actually use it seems like it would be an "are we having fun yet" situation. :lol:

Cat5Rig.jpg

 

I used that second reef a lot. I'm going to do a write up on my experience, but for now I'll just say that the inside of my drysuit would become a little moist in the groin at those times.

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Few pics a I took this am in Key Largo.

First boat is an O'Day with a windvane (not sure which model)

Trimaran with a cabin.

A Core Sound 17 Mark III.

20200313_114117.jpg

20200313_114134.jpg

20200313_114152.jpg

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MM,

Not sure if I will be back to the Pelican today (pool, beveridges), but will be there tomorrow .  Will look for you then.  

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https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USDHSCG/bulletins/28033ddus?fbclid=IwAR2A41FxXTETmdQI9-nq_9NutT8ysENgrbcJ3EDedfQrvTxgpUy2QtroEmg

 

Coast Guard Sector St. Petersburg command center received a report Monday from the son that his father was off-track of the organized event path. His last personal tracking device check-in was reported Monday at 7:24 a.m. 

A Coast Guard Air Station Clearwater HC-130J aircrew located his blue, 17-foot Core Sound sailing vessel Monday evening. A Clearwater MH-60 Jayhawk helicopter crew found no one aboard.

.

.

Valuable time was lost due to Tribe Creed....

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Here are two tracks.

one of a winner of the challenge.

another one is of Sailorman. 
as you could see, up until midnight of Sunday, he was on track to checkpoint 2. Yes it is a risky path for the weather, but I contemplated same path and I have chosen to stay close to shore only because I had a crew. If I was solo I would sail straight line too.

up until 8 am on Monday he was sending OK messages. 
Rules require a participant to have three ways to send a distress signal. it is SPOT, PLB and VHF. PLB and VHF must be wearied on a life jacket.  

the rescue was initiated after contact with the sailor was lost.  No distress signals were ever received from the sailor.
I don’t see anything can be done differently from WT side. 

note that the weather wasn’t all that bad. Offshore winds 20 knots at most. Totally manageable. 
 

EECB6055-B380-4176-AD41-22FB5997F8C1.png

33F3BC5D-15B7-4458-BA8E-5E8ED6121B50.png

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2 hours ago, MisterMoon said:

TBW: Who are you? I just left the beach at the Pelican. Look for me later in blue shorts and a green fishing shirt. (I know.... :)) 

 

It’s the Keys.  That is conservative and subdued for there....

- Stumbling 

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2 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

Valuable time was lost due to Tribe Creed.... 

If you insist on repeating yourself, I'll have to do the same. Enough already.

You have no foundation for this statement and you're beating a dead horse long after the owners and their neighbors have asked you to stop. Unless you have some agenda here that you're not sharing, maybe your time would best be spent elsewhere.

Porter

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5 minutes ago, Porter42 said:

If you insist on repeating yourself, I'll have to do the same. Enough already.

You have no foundation for this statement and you're beating a dead horse long after the owners and their neighbors have asked you to stop. Unless you have some agenda here that you're not sharing, maybe your time would best be spent elsewhere.

Porter

I don't think so...left a man to ultimately die...

WT Creed

 

 

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1 hour ago, NYBOZO1 said:

I'm with BravoBravo.

There is a certain attitude from WT people that does not sit well with me. (not that any of you give a shit)

You say that as if there is even such a thing as "Watertribe People."

Huh?

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On 3/11/2020 at 8:16 PM, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

I think you're talking about Dawn Patrol and Alanosaurus and his dad DWSB but he's too modest to admit it so I'll point it out.

2013 pic:

core-sound-20-lugger.jpg

no, I couldn't remember what boat they were in that year.  Dawnpatrol or the EC22

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2 hours ago, fastyacht said:

You say that as if there is even such a thing as "Watertribe People."

Huh?

Don't feed the troll.  RIP Sailorman.

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18 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

Is it true  Sailorman had a blood sugar imbalance and another competitor who spoke to him prior the course deviation reported he was ‘disoriented’ as the USCG also reported?

Details... how did the CG know he was disoriented? Look at it this way copy and paste a photo of. WT boat that would NOT. Have been in dire straights 25 miles offshore with the wind 20-25 on the nose trying to get to shore. The gulf is very nasty in those conditions 4-7 steep short sloppy sea state   Even is a properly founded keelboat it is miserable! WT knew of the alarming picture and put the onus on his son , shore contact, was his son capable of evaluating the situation or was he nothing more than a phone number 

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Man, the usual SA shit fight ensues.  Now I remember why I almost never come on here anymore.  BravoBravo from what I am told you are pretty closely connected to a participant or two in this race.  I see your point, clearly.  I understand your concerns and I share some if them.  However this "creed" shit is just calling names and picking fights.  NYBOZO1, I don't really get what you mean by your statement.  Watertribe folks are a pretty diverse bunch.  We have world champs, national champs, weekend warriors, builders, designers, adventure racers, etc.  Ages are all over the place but generally older.  Some folks have sailed across oceans, paddled the Yukon, done the R2AK, etc.  Almost all I have met were down to earth, humble, capable sailors and paddlers.  Haven't met too many with big egos or bravado.  

 

It seems to me that some here just want to place blame somewhere and shit talk an event and organization that has been around for 20 years doing it's thing.  

 

Fact is none of us know what happened out there.  So it's all just arguing for the sake of arguing. 

 

Since I know someone will ask, I've finished 5 Everglades Challenges.  

 

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33 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

Is it true  Sailorman had a blood sugar imbalance and another competitor who spoke to him prior the course deviation reported he was ‘disoriented’ as the USCG also reported?

Where are you getting that info from?

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9 minutes ago, ZeroTheHero said:

Where are you getting that info from?

There is a lot of information that is not in this forum, and there are also various rumors. You are not going to get to the bottom of it here but if you talk to the actual people who were there and those who knew sailorman then you might get a clearer picture but do note that they are not posting on this thread...

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1 hour ago, fastyacht said:

There is a lot of information that is not in this forum, and there are also various rumors. You are not going to get to the bottom of it here but if you talk to the actual people who were there and those who knew sailorman then you might get a clearer picture but do note that they are not posting on this thread...

I have talked to numerous people directly.  People who were in KL, sailing in the event, helping to organize and run it. talked to them on the phone.

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Some of us don't do FB, don't know any participants or WT members, live on the left coast but are still interested in this story.  If nobody is willing to post an objective, factual account of what happened to Sailorman, can you link us to one (other than FB)?

 

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I don't think anyone really knows what happened to him.  On the Watertribe site there is a tracker where you can select a participant and see their track with time stamps.  Since the tracker hasn't been cleaned you can still see Sailorman's track and where things start to look very concerning.

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bravo bravo: start by listing all your facts.  Much of  what you’ve said so far is just speculation and rumor by people trying to make sense of something that makes no sense .

 

Andyman has it correct. We will never know.  
 

 

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9 hours ago, ZeroTheHero said:

I don't think anyone really knows what happened to him.  On the Watertribe site there is a tracker where you can select a participant and see their track with time stamps.  Since the tracker hasn't been cleaned you can still see Sailorman's track and where things start to look very concerning.

My sincere condolence to Sailorman's family. It's a tragic loss.

FB- Doug

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I think I got things backwards earler.  I think the first kayak to finish was a solo class 1.

Any way.  Think the last paddler got in today.  

My quick math says about 42 finished out of 107 starters.  If I am right that works out to about a 39% finish rate and that is with the plan b start.

 

 

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6 hours ago, TBW said:

I think I got things backwards earler.  I think the first kayak to finish was a solo class 1.

Any way.  Think the last paddler got in today.  

My quick math says about 42 finished out of 107 starters.  If I am right that works out to about a 39% finish rate and that is with the plan b start.

 

 

I mentioned on the WT FB page that the first weekend in April is generally a LOT nicer than the first weekend in March. Replies noted that it's hot and there are more bugs and mostly that it's supposed to be a challenge. Yeah, well, it could do with a bit less involvement from rescuers and a higher finish rate.

The challenge aspect is what's interesting though and, along with the weird designs it provokes, is what makes this event fascinating to me. I have played with little boats my whole life. Down in the Keys, in the 10,000 Islands, in Charlotte Harbor and Tampa Bay. I'm also a powerboat guy, but have always had and played with paddling and sailboats. At one time or another I have been in every pass, bay, and inlet along the course. This event involves my kind of boats and occurs in my back yard. It's not often that someone comes up with a plan involving my kind of boats in my back yard and I look at the plan and think, "I'm not sure I could do that!" I'm ALWAYS sure I could do that, because I've been doing it since I can remember. It takes a special kind of crazy to come up with a plan that gives me any doubt. This event is that special kind.

I will probably never participate for that reason and because, even if I did manage to finish, it sounds like more suffering than I can call fun. That's why I called off my Speck Tater mission to Stump Pass this year. It wasn't unsafe, just sounded like more wind and lower temps than I could call fun. I play with boats for fun.

I said earlier in the thread that I thought Sailorman went overboard and his boat and SPOT tracker proceeded SW into the Gulf. That was wrong, as I later saw that he had pressed OK several times. The gossip that he was "disoriented" fits in my mind. No sailor in his right mind would have headed that direction at all, let alone in the conditions we had last weekend. It's hard to escape the conclusion that he was aboard and not in his right mind.

I disagree with CrazyR's post that the conditions were totally manageable. I was out on Sunday and the sustained winds were in the upper teens, which is pretty manageable for small sailboats, but the gusts were lifting the 24' Speck Tater and tossing it sideways. They were in the mid 20's is my guess. And that was way up the Peace River, miles inland from the coast. That's on the outside edge of manageable in a small and heavily loaded sailboat, but Bravo is right that no one would head that direction just because it was perpendicular to the course to the next checkpoint. Add in the conditions in the Gulf and it makes less sense.

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5 hours ago, Kenny Dumas said:

The boat was upright until the chopper blew it over. MOB. Answers a few questions. Hard to say the conditions were extreme if a water ballasted boat can sail itself. 

Speaks well for the Core Sound 17 design if true. How do you know this?

The gusts on Sunday seemed to me strong relative to the sustained winds. I expect about 5 knots of difference, maybe a bit less. The gusts we encountered were more than what I am used to but "extreme" is a subjective thing.

I mentioned on FB a couple of times during the event that the sustained NE winds had blown all the water away. Happens after every cold front, so I'm used to it. However, it never crossed my mind that taking my pontoon boat up the Peace River would not be possible. At the southern end of Deep Creek, I started feeling the engine touch bottom where I am used to having three feet of water. There's a "3" where I'm talking about on chart 11426. I knew that shoaling in the channel had made it even more shallow ahead and slowed down. We picked our way along, bumping the hulls into sand ridges, to get across it. Hull draft is about a foot. I have never seen less than two feet of water on that bar and told the WT FB group to subtract a foot from whatever their charts might say in Charlotte Harbor and Pine Island Sound. So I guess that qualifies as extreme.

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Someone mentioned a blood sugar problem. Was sailorman a diabetic? It brings to mind an incident we had a few years ago when a cruiser from my club asked if he could race with us. Sure.  20 minutes after we left the dock he started acting strange.  After the race started, he acted like he was drunk although no smell of alcohol. An hour later back at the dock he sprawled in the cockpit as the crew put the boat away. He then got belligerent and refused to leave the boat until he talked to the owner.  I am the the owner and he was talking to me so we became very concerned.  We offered him food and drink which he refused. A guy down the dock who is a medical professional came by and tried to talk to him.  He thought the guy was psychotic. The guy eventually got up and staggered down the dock.  We checked the club directory and called his home. Fortunately his wife answered and told us that the guy was a type 1 diabetic and probably hadn't eaten lunch and worked on his boat in the heat.. We ran to car in the parking lot where we found him delirious.  Gave him a Pepsi and made him drink it then helped him back to the club where we gave him a candy bar  and other food. He returned to normal and had no memory of his prior behavior.  Extremely low blood sugar can cause glucose psychosis which could explain a lot. Sailorman could have been in a psychotic state when he veered off course.  He actually would have thought that he was going the right way and pressed the OK button.  Eventually he degraded to the point of physical weakness and slipped overboard in the rough conditions. Dehydration, physical exercise, and diet could have contributed to low blood sugar.  In this state he could have never known he was in trouble when he was.  No amount of safety equipment would have helped.  All sheer speculation but a plausible reason for what happened.

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4 minutes ago, Callahan said:

Someone mentioned a blood sugar problem. Was sailorman a diabetic? It brings to mind an incident we had a few years ago when a cruiser from my club asked if he could race with us. Sure.  20 minutes after we left the dock he started acting strange.  After the race started, he acted like he was drunk although no smell of alcohol. An hour later back at the dock he sprawled in the cockpit as the crew put the boat away. He then got belligerent and refused to leave the boat until he talked to the owner.  I am the the owner and he was talking to me so we became very concerned.  We offered him food and drink which he refused. A guy down the dock who is a medical professional came by and tried to talk to him.  He thought the guy was psychotic. The guy eventually got up and staggered down the dock.  We checked the club directory and called his home. Fortunately his wife answered and told us that the guy was a type 1 diabetic and probably hadn't eaten lunch and worked on his boat in the heat.. We ran to car in the parking lot where we found him delirious.  Gave him a Pepsi and made him drink it then helped him back to the club where we gave him a candy bar  and other food. He returned to normal and had no memory of his prior behavior.  Extremely low blood sugar can cause glucose psychosis which could explain a lot. Sailorman could have been in a psychotic state when he veered off course.  He actually would have thought that he was going the right way and pressed the OK button.  Eventually he degraded to the point of physical weakness and slipped overboard in the rough conditions. Dehydration, physical exercise, and diet could have contributed to low blood sugar.  In this state he could have never known he was in trouble when he was.  No amount of safety equipment would have helped.  All sheer speculation but a plausible reason for what happened.

 

I do not want to fuel speculation but ^ this ^ is medically accurate

Hypothermia can produce altered mental ability, also.

I saw the USCG photo and assumed the boat had capsized, or swamped and capsized (loss of stability when half-full). It's difficult to explain that Sailorman would have gone overboard from an upright & still-sailing boat.

Very sad story, this is a tragic loss

FB- Doug

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

I do not want to fuel speculation but ^ this ^ is medically accurate

Hypothermia can produce altered mental ability, also. <<<<<<<<<< this !

I saw the USCG photo and assumed the boat had capsized, or swamped and capsized (loss of stability when half-full). It's difficult to explain that Sailorman would have gone overboard from an upright & still-sailing boat.

Very sad story, this is a tragic loss

FB- Doug

many of the accounts of those hugging the coast spoke of the cold and rough crossing in Charlotte harbor and the other large bodies of water....when SM tracker showed him continuing his southerly track which was hugging the coast to diverging when abeam of Sanibel...the rough/wet cold just around sun down (solar heating as it warms whatever the rays land upon) the hypodermic conditions increased greatly....like trying to catch on on severe pain with pain meds, trying to warm up after being cold is a tough road to hoe....Peter Lange's account on the first evening does a great job describing trying to stay ahead of hypothermia  

Hopefully there will be lessons learned as this tragedy struck close to home

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