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2 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

Valuable time was lost due to Tribe Creed.... 

If you insist on repeating yourself, I'll have to do the same. Enough already.

You have no foundation for this statement and you're beating a dead horse long after the owners and their neighbors have asked you to stop. Unless you have some agenda here that you're not sharing, maybe your time would best be spent elsewhere.

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It has been an incredibly long and sad day to be a Tribe member today.  Not good news, which you all already know.  Like BravoBravo I had been glued to the tracker as Sailorman wandered farther and fa

I'll have more to say at length later. First of all, everyone is crushed by the apparent loss of Sailorman. I do think the fact that he didn't signal that he was having problems is indicative of somet

Sorry to hear that they have not found Sailorman. But before this turns into Manifestly Unsafe Voyage Anarchy, how about a few pics from yesterday? Zippy just off Everglades City:

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1 hour ago, NYBOZO1 said:

I'm with BravoBravo.

There is a certain attitude from WT people that does not sit well with me. (not that any of you give a shit)

You say that as if there is even such a thing as "Watertribe People."

Huh?

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On 3/11/2020 at 8:16 PM, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

I think you're talking about Dawn Patrol and Alanosaurus and his dad DWSB but he's too modest to admit it so I'll point it out.

2013 pic:

core-sound-20-lugger.jpg

no, I couldn't remember what boat they were in that year.  Dawnpatrol or the EC22

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2 hours ago, fastyacht said:

You say that as if there is even such a thing as "Watertribe People."

Huh?

Don't feed the troll.  RIP Sailorman.

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Man, the usual SA shit fight ensues.  Now I remember why I almost never come on here anymore.  BravoBravo from what I am told you are pretty closely connected to a participant or two in this race.  I see your point, clearly.  I understand your concerns and I share some if them.  However this "creed" shit is just calling names and picking fights.  NYBOZO1, I don't really get what you mean by your statement.  Watertribe folks are a pretty diverse bunch.  We have world champs, national champs, weekend warriors, builders, designers, adventure racers, etc.  Ages are all over the place but generally older.  Some folks have sailed across oceans, paddled the Yukon, done the R2AK, etc.  Almost all I have met were down to earth, humble, capable sailors and paddlers.  Haven't met too many with big egos or bravado.  

 

It seems to me that some here just want to place blame somewhere and shit talk an event and organization that has been around for 20 years doing it's thing.  

 

Fact is none of us know what happened out there.  So it's all just arguing for the sake of arguing. 

 

Since I know someone will ask, I've finished 5 Everglades Challenges.  

 

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33 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

Is it true  Sailorman had a blood sugar imbalance and another competitor who spoke to him prior the course deviation reported he was ‘disoriented’ as the USCG also reported?

Where are you getting that info from?

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9 minutes ago, ZeroTheHero said:

Where are you getting that info from?

There is a lot of information that is not in this forum, and there are also various rumors. You are not going to get to the bottom of it here but if you talk to the actual people who were there and those who knew sailorman then you might get a clearer picture but do note that they are not posting on this thread...

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1 hour ago, fastyacht said:

There is a lot of information that is not in this forum, and there are also various rumors. You are not going to get to the bottom of it here but if you talk to the actual people who were there and those who knew sailorman then you might get a clearer picture but do note that they are not posting on this thread...

I have talked to numerous people directly.  People who were in KL, sailing in the event, helping to organize and run it. talked to them on the phone.

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Some of us don't do FB, don't know any participants or WT members, live on the left coast but are still interested in this story.  If nobody is willing to post an objective, factual account of what happened to Sailorman, can you link us to one (other than FB)?

 

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I don't think anyone really knows what happened to him.  On the Watertribe site there is a tracker where you can select a participant and see their track with time stamps.  Since the tracker hasn't been cleaned you can still see Sailorman's track and where things start to look very concerning.

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bravo bravo: start by listing all your facts.  Much of  what you’ve said so far is just speculation and rumor by people trying to make sense of something that makes no sense .

 

Andyman has it correct. We will never know.  
 

 

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9 hours ago, ZeroTheHero said:

I don't think anyone really knows what happened to him.  On the Watertribe site there is a tracker where you can select a participant and see their track with time stamps.  Since the tracker hasn't been cleaned you can still see Sailorman's track and where things start to look very concerning.

My sincere condolence to Sailorman's family. It's a tragic loss.

FB- Doug

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I think I got things backwards earler.  I think the first kayak to finish was a solo class 1.

Any way.  Think the last paddler got in today.  

My quick math says about 42 finished out of 107 starters.  If I am right that works out to about a 39% finish rate and that is with the plan b start.

 

 

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6 hours ago, TBW said:

I think I got things backwards earler.  I think the first kayak to finish was a solo class 1.

Any way.  Think the last paddler got in today.  

My quick math says about 42 finished out of 107 starters.  If I am right that works out to about a 39% finish rate and that is with the plan b start.

 

 

I mentioned on the WT FB page that the first weekend in April is generally a LOT nicer than the first weekend in March. Replies noted that it's hot and there are more bugs and mostly that it's supposed to be a challenge. Yeah, well, it could do with a bit less involvement from rescuers and a higher finish rate.

The challenge aspect is what's interesting though and, along with the weird designs it provokes, is what makes this event fascinating to me. I have played with little boats my whole life. Down in the Keys, in the 10,000 Islands, in Charlotte Harbor and Tampa Bay. I'm also a powerboat guy, but have always had and played with paddling and sailboats. At one time or another I have been in every pass, bay, and inlet along the course. This event involves my kind of boats and occurs in my back yard. It's not often that someone comes up with a plan involving my kind of boats in my back yard and I look at the plan and think, "I'm not sure I could do that!" I'm ALWAYS sure I could do that, because I've been doing it since I can remember. It takes a special kind of crazy to come up with a plan that gives me any doubt. This event is that special kind.

I will probably never participate for that reason and because, even if I did manage to finish, it sounds like more suffering than I can call fun. That's why I called off my Speck Tater mission to Stump Pass this year. It wasn't unsafe, just sounded like more wind and lower temps than I could call fun. I play with boats for fun.

I said earlier in the thread that I thought Sailorman went overboard and his boat and SPOT tracker proceeded SW into the Gulf. That was wrong, as I later saw that he had pressed OK several times. The gossip that he was "disoriented" fits in my mind. No sailor in his right mind would have headed that direction at all, let alone in the conditions we had last weekend. It's hard to escape the conclusion that he was aboard and not in his right mind.

I disagree with CrazyR's post that the conditions were totally manageable. I was out on Sunday and the sustained winds were in the upper teens, which is pretty manageable for small sailboats, but the gusts were lifting the 24' Speck Tater and tossing it sideways. They were in the mid 20's is my guess. And that was way up the Peace River, miles inland from the coast. That's on the outside edge of manageable in a small and heavily loaded sailboat, but Bravo is right that no one would head that direction just because it was perpendicular to the course to the next checkpoint. Add in the conditions in the Gulf and it makes less sense.

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5 hours ago, Kenny Dumas said:

The boat was upright until the chopper blew it over. MOB. Answers a few questions. Hard to say the conditions were extreme if a water ballasted boat can sail itself. 

Speaks well for the Core Sound 17 design if true. How do you know this?

The gusts on Sunday seemed to me strong relative to the sustained winds. I expect about 5 knots of difference, maybe a bit less. The gusts we encountered were more than what I am used to but "extreme" is a subjective thing.

I mentioned on FB a couple of times during the event that the sustained NE winds had blown all the water away. Happens after every cold front, so I'm used to it. However, it never crossed my mind that taking my pontoon boat up the Peace River would not be possible. At the southern end of Deep Creek, I started feeling the engine touch bottom where I am used to having three feet of water. There's a "3" where I'm talking about on chart 11426. I knew that shoaling in the channel had made it even more shallow ahead and slowed down. We picked our way along, bumping the hulls into sand ridges, to get across it. Hull draft is about a foot. I have never seen less than two feet of water on that bar and told the WT FB group to subtract a foot from whatever their charts might say in Charlotte Harbor and Pine Island Sound. So I guess that qualifies as extreme.

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Someone mentioned a blood sugar problem. Was sailorman a diabetic? It brings to mind an incident we had a few years ago when a cruiser from my club asked if he could race with us. Sure.  20 minutes after we left the dock he started acting strange.  After the race started, he acted like he was drunk although no smell of alcohol. An hour later back at the dock he sprawled in the cockpit as the crew put the boat away. He then got belligerent and refused to leave the boat until he talked to the owner.  I am the the owner and he was talking to me so we became very concerned.  We offered him food and drink which he refused. A guy down the dock who is a medical professional came by and tried to talk to him.  He thought the guy was psychotic. The guy eventually got up and staggered down the dock.  We checked the club directory and called his home. Fortunately his wife answered and told us that the guy was a type 1 diabetic and probably hadn't eaten lunch and worked on his boat in the heat.. We ran to car in the parking lot where we found him delirious.  Gave him a Pepsi and made him drink it then helped him back to the club where we gave him a candy bar  and other food. He returned to normal and had no memory of his prior behavior.  Extremely low blood sugar can cause glucose psychosis which could explain a lot. Sailorman could have been in a psychotic state when he veered off course.  He actually would have thought that he was going the right way and pressed the OK button.  Eventually he degraded to the point of physical weakness and slipped overboard in the rough conditions. Dehydration, physical exercise, and diet could have contributed to low blood sugar.  In this state he could have never known he was in trouble when he was.  No amount of safety equipment would have helped.  All sheer speculation but a plausible reason for what happened.

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4 minutes ago, Callahan said:

Someone mentioned a blood sugar problem. Was sailorman a diabetic? It brings to mind an incident we had a few years ago when a cruiser from my club asked if he could race with us. Sure.  20 minutes after we left the dock he started acting strange.  After the race started, he acted like he was drunk although no smell of alcohol. An hour later back at the dock he sprawled in the cockpit as the crew put the boat away. He then got belligerent and refused to leave the boat until he talked to the owner.  I am the the owner and he was talking to me so we became very concerned.  We offered him food and drink which he refused. A guy down the dock who is a medical professional came by and tried to talk to him.  He thought the guy was psychotic. The guy eventually got up and staggered down the dock.  We checked the club directory and called his home. Fortunately his wife answered and told us that the guy was a type 1 diabetic and probably hadn't eaten lunch and worked on his boat in the heat.. We ran to car in the parking lot where we found him delirious.  Gave him a Pepsi and made him drink it then helped him back to the club where we gave him a candy bar  and other food. He returned to normal and had no memory of his prior behavior.  Extremely low blood sugar can cause glucose psychosis which could explain a lot. Sailorman could have been in a psychotic state when he veered off course.  He actually would have thought that he was going the right way and pressed the OK button.  Eventually he degraded to the point of physical weakness and slipped overboard in the rough conditions. Dehydration, physical exercise, and diet could have contributed to low blood sugar.  In this state he could have never known he was in trouble when he was.  No amount of safety equipment would have helped.  All sheer speculation but a plausible reason for what happened.

 

I do not want to fuel speculation but ^ this ^ is medically accurate

Hypothermia can produce altered mental ability, also.

I saw the USCG photo and assumed the boat had capsized, or swamped and capsized (loss of stability when half-full). It's difficult to explain that Sailorman would have gone overboard from an upright & still-sailing boat.

Very sad story, this is a tragic loss

FB- Doug

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Here's a photo I took of the boat on the beach on Friday. One thing that concerns me is there is no boarding ladder.  I sailed the open version Core Sound 17 in four WT events since 2012. My boat had a boarding step. I knew from experience that reboarding in deep water is a real problem on the open Core Sound which has much lower freeboard than the Mk 3 Sailorman was sailing. 

I'm pretty sure I couldn't reboard his boat as shown. 

Still doesn't explain not hitting the PLB. 

unnamed.jpg

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18 hours ago, Kenny Dumas said:

The boat was upright until the chopper blew it over. MOB. Answers a few questions. Hard to say the conditions were extreme if a water ballasted boat can sail itself. 

12 hours ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

Speaks well for the Core Sound 17 design if true. How do you know this?

The gusts on Sunday seemed to me strong relative to the sustained winds. I expect about 5 knots of difference, maybe a bit less. The gusts we encountered were more than what I am used to but "extreme" is a subjective thing.

I mentioned on FB a couple of times during the event that the sustained NE winds had blown all the water away. Happens after every cold front, so I'm used to it. However, it never crossed my mind that taking my pontoon boat up the Peace River would not be possible. At the southern end of Deep Creek, I started feeling the engine touch bottom where I am used to having three feet of water. There's a "3" where I'm talking about on chart 11426. I knew that shoaling in the channel had made it even more shallow ahead and slowed down. We picked our way along, bumping the hulls into sand ridges, to get across it. Hull draft is about a foot. I have never seen less than two feet of water on that bar and told the WT FB group to subtract a foot from whatever their charts might say in Charlotte Harbor and Pine Island Sound. So I guess that qualifies as extreme.

Here is an article that states that the Coast Guard found the boat upright but the helicopter rotor wash capsized it. https://www.tampabay.com/news/breaking-news/2020/03/13/search-suspended-for-st-pete-sailor-who-went-missing-during-long-distance-race/?fbclid=IwAR14JbfFMGbd0Szt7VIh3Nstw9aM-jevan9voNywMg4X8c8Effxag3-9YpY

 

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9 hours ago, Callahan said:

Someone mentioned a blood sugar problem. Was sailorman a diabetic? It brings to mind an incident we had a few years ago when a cruiser from my club asked if he could race with us. Sure.  20 minutes after we left the dock he started acting strange.  After the race started, he acted like he was drunk although no smell of alcohol. An hour later back at the dock he sprawled in the cockpit as the crew put the boat away. He then got belligerent and refused to leave the boat until he talked to the owner.  I am the the owner and he was talking to me so we became very concerned.  We offered him food and drink which he refused. A guy down the dock who is a medical professional came by and tried to talk to him.  He thought the guy was psychotic. The guy eventually got up and staggered down the dock.  We checked the club directory and called his home. Fortunately his wife answered and told us that the guy was a type 1 diabetic and probably hadn't eaten lunch and worked on his boat in the heat.. We ran to car in the parking lot where we found him delirious.  Gave him a Pepsi and made him drink it then helped him back to the club where we gave him a candy bar  and other food. He returned to normal and had no memory of his prior behavior.  Extremely low blood sugar can cause glucose psychosis which could explain a lot. Sailorman could have been in a psychotic state when he veered off course.  He actually would have thought that he was going the right way and pressed the OK button.  Eventually he degraded to the point of physical weakness and slipped overboard in the rough conditions. Dehydration, physical exercise, and diet could have contributed to low blood sugar.  In this state he could have never known he was in trouble when he was.  No amount of safety equipment would have helped.  All sheer speculation but a plausible reason for what happened.

I had never been around a diabetic until the boss hired one at the brokerage where I worked. One day he was acting almost incoherent and none of us knew what it was. We called 911. Soon it was standing room only in our tiny office, with paramedics and cops. One of the medical workers knew pretty much right away what she was looking at and asked if anyone had any sugary foods. I pulled out my emergency brownies.

Fortunately, our salesman was the type who got very friendly and cooperative in this condition. He ate the brownie and was soon fine. This happened a few more times while he worked with us and each time I just handed him a brownie or some chocolate or whatever I had on hand and it fixed him right up. I read up on it and learned that some people get very belligerent and suspicious, as it sounds like your crew did, and it makes the situation harder to handle.

9 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

It's difficult to explain that Sailorman would have gone overboard from an upright & still-sailing boat.

As if more speculation is needed, here goes...

If he was not, in fact, disoriented from low sugar/hypothermia/whatever, he might have had a problem with the forward rig that happened at night. He might have decided to just sit it out and hit OK until dawn, then climb up on top of the cabin to deal with it. Climbing on top of a little boat is a popular way to wind up in the water. I believe I saw that the last OK was 7:24 am. About the time it gets light enough to work outside at this time of year.

I mentioned upthread that some Watertribers disobey the "wear your PFD rule" at times. It's hard to imagine thinking that going up on top offshore would be such a time. If the PFD was worn and had the required PLB attached, it's hard to explain no signal from it. But electronic stuff does break.

Thanks for posting the update article, fairlane. It also says he had worked as a part time sailing instructor.

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11 hours ago, fairlane said:

Thanks for posting that.  Nice to see some facts.  Speaks volumes (positive) about the boat @alanosauras.  RIP Sailorman and condolences to the family.

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After studying Sailorman's tracks some more, I've started to believe he wasn't disoriented. I though track he took offshore on Saturday was odd, now I have an idea what he was doing. It appears to me his SOP was to heave to or drop sail and drift downwind at night while he presumably slept. I don't think he was so much disoriented but just asleep during those offshore drifts. Drifting downwind in 7-10 foot seas would be uncomfortable, but pretty safe in that boat with the sails down and water ballast in. You can see where on Saturday night he sent an OK about midnight and then about 800 am the following morning he started sailing back to Boca Grande. His track appears to show a boat under command until about midnight Sunday night, where he sent another OK and started drifting downwind yet again. Another OK at 0337 when he peeked up to to have a look around, then back to sleep until his final OK message at 0724. Immediately after sending that message all tracking stopped and he went overboard. Maybe he had a medical issue, maybe he was peeing over the side and lost his balance, we'll never know.

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1 hour ago, MisterMoon said:

After studying Sailorman's tracks some more, I've started to believe he wasn't disoriented. I though track he took offshore on Saturday was odd, now I have an idea what he was doing. It appears to me his SOP was to heave to or drop sail and drift downwind at night while he presumably slept. I don't think he was so much disoriented but just asleep during those offshore drifts. Drifting downwind in 7-10 foot seas would be uncomfortable, but pretty safe in that boat with the sails down and water ballast in. You can see where on Saturday night he sent an OK about midnight and then about 800 am the following morning he started sailing back to Boca Grande. His track appears to show a boat under command until about midnight Sunday night, where he sent another OK and started drifting downwind yet again. Another OK at 0337 when he peeked up to to have a look around, then back to sleep until his final OK message at 0724. Immediately after sending that message all tracking stopped and he went overboard. Maybe he had a medical issue, maybe he was peeing over the side and lost his balance, we'll never know.

That you for that logical explanation and what now make sense.  Sorry this happened and keeping a thought for his family and all involved.

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First of all Windy isn't perfect. It's just a depiction of the models at a particular time. From my perspective the winds went more NE at night and E during the day on Saturday and Sunday. See the historical data from the nearest weather bouy  to Sailorman's position which shows winds from the NE and ENE at night. Also, with the tiller lashed to leeward, the boat could forereach and would not go directly downwind. 

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Also wind subsided on Sunday night and Monday morning was peaceful with N-NE winds at about 10 knots. I let my inexperienced crew flew gennaker and steer the boat in same general area although close to shore  and about same time of Sailorman disappearance. 

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3 hours ago, MisterMoon said:

After studying Sailorman's tracks some more, I've started to believe he wasn't disoriented. I though track he took offshore on Saturday was odd, now I have an idea what he was doing. It appears to me his SOP was to heave to or drop sail and drift downwind at night while he presumably slept. I don't think he was so much disoriented but just asleep during those offshore drifts. Drifting downwind in 7-10 foot seas would be uncomfortable, but pretty safe in that boat with the sails down and water ballast in. You can see where on Saturday night he sent an OK about midnight and then about 800 am the following morning he started sailing back to Boca Grande. His track appears to show a boat under command until about midnight Sunday night, where he sent another OK and started drifting downwind yet again. Another OK at 0337 when he peeked up to to have a look around, then back to sleep until his final OK message at 0724. Immediately after sending that message all tracking stopped and he went overboard. Maybe he had a medical issue, maybe he was peeing over the side and lost his balance, we'll never know.

If he was eating all the fiber that a man of his age should be, he may have needed to do more than just pee. And back then, you could actually buy toilet paper, if you can imagine.

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Just now, BravoBravo said:

Close to shore is close to shore...SM was 30NM +-....big difference....and in those conditions you just pee in the cockpit...speaking of cockpit was there actually a cockpit or was it flush with gear, a potential hazard

He chose that course. Look at the record. As discussed above, he did the same thing earlier--went way out, then came back in.

 

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1 minute ago, BravoBravo said:

specualtion...when did he go "way out"...he was close to the coast along Sanibel then continue that course as the land became farther away due to the shape of land

Just look at the track. Posted somewhere upthread.

EECB6055-B380-4176-AD41-22FB5997F8C1.png

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8 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

that jog around Boca Grande is odd...maybe it was sloppy near the pass...we really don't know

Look at the timing of the OK messages and the speeds over ground during  that jog. He shut it down and went to sleep. No one can be 100% positive of that, but the explanation fits the data better than anything else I'm hearing from you or anyone else. 

 

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Really stupid and all that question...where are the complete results with participant's names, etc.?  I have searched all over the web site, FB, and other places to no avail.  I know you can rip away on me about being totally clueless and handicapped about this but a bit of assistance please?  Thank you!

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1 minute ago, Geff said:

Really stupid and all that question...where are the complete results with participant's names, etc.?  I have searched all over the web site, FB, and other places to no avail.  I know you can rip away on me about being totally clueless and handicapped about this but a bit of assistance please?  Thank you!

 

1 minute ago, Geff said:

Really stupid and all that question...where are the complete results with participant's names, etc.?  I have searched all over the web site, FB, and other places to no avail.  I know you can rip away on me about being totally clueless and handicapped about this but a bit of assistance please?  Thank you!

http://watertribe.com/Events/ChallengeResults.aspx

 

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12 hours ago, MisterMoon said:

After studying Sailorman's tracks some more, I've started to believe he wasn't disoriented. I though track he took offshore on Saturday was odd, now I have an idea what he was doing. It appears to me his SOP was to heave to or drop sail and drift downwind at night while he presumably slept. I don't think he was so much disoriented but just asleep during those offshore drifts. Drifting downwind in 7-10 foot seas would be uncomfortable, but pretty safe in that boat with the sails down and water ballast in. You can see where on Saturday night he sent an OK about midnight and then about 800 am the following morning he started sailing back to Boca Grande. His track appears to show a boat under command until about midnight Sunday night, where he sent another OK and started drifting downwind yet again. Another OK at 0337 when he peeked up to to have a look around, then back to sleep until his final OK message at 0724. Immediately after sending that message all tracking stopped and he went overboard. Maybe he had a medical issue, maybe he was peeing over the side and lost his balance, we'll never know.

I came to the exact same conclusions, MM.  His SOG on the SW legs at night were a crawl compared to his S and SE daytime legs.   And sleeping helps to explain why he chose to stay outside when he could easily have nipped in through various passes and dropped hook for the night.  And he wasn't SewSew, so he had to sleep sometime.  He probably got about 4-5 hours of sleep on Friday, and had an exhausting day on the helm on Saturday and Saturday evening before he headed offshore..  But what kind of sleep could it really have been in the forepeak of his small craft in those conditions -- particularly if suffering from hypothermia? 

Much to think about and hopefully learn from.

DKHT

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Glad to see that article listed on the previous page here.  Clears up some things.  Looking at the track again I see MisterMoons hypothesis becoming more clear.  I agree with him and DonKeyHoTey, both of whom I have finished an EC with.  BravoBravo kudos to you for being concerned and making that known to race management. I did the same, as I have said.  I can not speak for everyone involved but I am always glad to know people are watching the tracker and care enough to make a call to a friend involve.  There are pretty clear guidelines about using the spot and I think many of us who have used a spot in this event were really puzzled by the ok signals.  That is a "make no mistake I am just fine" signal that we all know to mean just that.  Many of us following along were puzzled by this oks, but there they were.  It makes me very sad that this has happened.  One possible positive note, I was planning on going solo in class 4 next year but that idea is gone now.  Far too much risk for me.

Has anyone really looked at Chaos and Sewsew's track?  Man were they hauling!  They went from Sanibel to Marco in about 3 hours!  That has always taken me the better part of a day.

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1 hour ago, ZeroTheHero said:

Glad to see that article listed on the previous page here.  Clears up some things.  Looking at the track again I see MisterMoons hypothesis becoming more clear.  I agree with him and DonKeyHoTey, both of whom I have finished an EC with.  BravoBravo kudos to you for being concerned and making that known to race management. I did the same, as I have said.  I can not speak for everyone involved but I am always glad to know people are watching the tracker and care enough to make a call to a friend involve.  There are pretty clear guidelines about using the spot and I think many of us who have used a spot in this event were really puzzled by the ok signals.  That is a "make no mistake I am just fine" signal that we all know to mean just that.  Many of us following along were puzzled by this oks, but there they were.  It makes me very sad that this has happened.  One possible positive note, I was planning on going solo in class 4 next year but that idea is gone now.  Far too much risk for me.

Has anyone really looked at Chaos and Sewsew's track?  Man were they hauling!  They went from Sanibel to Marco in about 3 hours!  That has always taken me the better part of a day.

20kts boat speed has a quality all its own!   Their average speed for the course was 10.43 knots/hr (300 mi divided by 28.75 hours for the doubters.)  Bumpy and MachoMan still have the absolute course record of 26.2 hours.   

Spawn’s course average through Flamingo was 8.53kts/hr (265mi, 31.083 hours).   Their monohull record works out to 8.16kts/hr average (300mi/36.75 hrs).   The conditions would not allow them to finish in less than 5.75 hours going the long way.  

Amy’s blog has one last picture of Spawn’s interior under the bow in her latest entry showing a centerline plywood bulkhead split horizontally fore and aft   It looks like there was a lot of flexing of the boat while pounding in the seas they had experienced.    I’m glad they stopped when they did.

 

- Stumbling

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Everglades Challenge 2020 Race Report

 

justanothersailor / Guy deBoer / solo sailor / Windrider 17

 

Fort De Soto Beach, Florida March 7

 

Saturday morning greeted the 100 teams with sunshine and small craft warnings over 20 knots. Chief the event organizer placed us in a weather hold for 3 hours until he finally gave the OK to start with a warning once again that we are on our own. This is an unsupported event and after signing every waiver you know to mankind you know it for sure. Your safety and operation of your boat is your decision alone. Chief also announced that if you use the outside (in the Gulf of Mexico) you do not need to stop at checkpoint 1, sailing directly to Checkpoint 2 a 175-mile run! That's a long time in a small boat.

 

Shortly after 10 AM, we're off. I begin with a double rigged main and use the screecher Blasting down the bay to Santa Marie Island and the Gulf of Mexico. It's only a few miles before I'm in the Gulf and sailing at over 10 knots south along the coast. Checkpoint 1 is Englewood about 67 miles from the start and by 3 or 4 PM I'm passing it where I need to hit the OK button on my SPOT tracking messenger. The SPOT is a GPS tool used to keep the organizers, friends, and family in the loop as to our whereabouts and safety. In only a few hours I'll truly be alone as the sunsets to the west.

 

Boy and are we ever alone. Soon the sun gave us a superior setting and the winds and seas increased to over 25 knots. I'm feeling good but near midnight as fatigue begins to set in and the seas increasing become larger and confused, I make the decision to reduce sail and drop the main altogether. Sailing on a broad reach wit only the jib my little Windrider 17 still makes 7-10 knots but in total control. I'm sailing with a Jet-boil Yet-ti type cooker that allows me to boil water and make chicken noodle soup and Cuban coffee. I even just boil water and use the Jet-boil as a hand warmer. This is the first time I've sailed the EC with one and let me tell you I was never really cold because of it!

 

I blasted down the coast quickly and near 4AM the wind and seas began to moderate. I raised the main to the full hoist and with the screecher arrived at Marco Island right at sunrise. With the light I realize I'm in the company with 2 other multihulls, Coastie on his Hobie larger Wave and Mico Tom on his Astmus 20. Upon rounding Marco I switch from the screecher to the small jib for the tighter reaching angle. The Everglades Sound is a large but shallow bay with tannin color waters reflecting the rotting vegetation of the Everglades. Here is where we enter the long and twisting mangrove channels to reach Checkpoint 2 at Chokoloskee. But before we get there I experienced the fastest speeds of the trip hitting 14.7 knots on the GPS for long sustained periods. What fun! But before that, the lashing at the head of the jib came to lose and I'm not able to trim the sail very well or roll it either. Eventually, the flogging of the sail has it's a natural progression as it begins to shred to tatters. This sail cannot be dropped at sea, there was little that I could do but watch it just come apart. I love entering the Everglades here at Indian Key. The twisting waterways always have me thinking back to the late 1880s and the early settlers of the Everglades. Life was rough back then, I recommend everyone reading, “Killing Mr. Watson” to learn why I love it so. I arrived at Checkpoint 2 in Chocoloskee at 12:55 PM at low tide. The tide is very important because it revels thick mud that one has to trudge through to reach the sign-in box. It took me about one hour to attempt to drag the boat and myself close to the beach edge. When I finally came ashore the volunteer checkpoint personnel had serious concern over my exhaustive state. I was truly exhausted standing by itself was very difficult. I laid down for about an hour before I made it back out to the boat and through the mud to remove the jib and screecher After making it back to shore I knew I was truly spent and crossed the road to the marina motel where I secured a room for a good sleep and jet-boil freeze-dried meal. After review ING the weather I made the decision to leave Checkpoint 2 at 3 AM for the winds were slated early as 10 knots with the wind increasing to over 25 knots as the day progressed.

 

I shoved off and rested at 3 AM & high tide with a double-reefed main and no head-sails. For the next 4 hours, I sailed very slowly south towards Cape Sable the SW corner Florida. The wind took forever to develop so I finally raised the main to full hoist and started to sail at 8-10 knots as the wind began to finally increase. Increase it did to 15,20 25 and finally 30 knots with a gust to over 35 knots! The Windrider took off at over 14 knots with me passing 3 boats in no time. But these conditions are not safe for a small boat like mine as I look ahead at NW Cape and its beautiful safe & dry beach. I pull up on the sandy beach at about noon and in the next hour Joe & Joe on another Windrider, Chandler on his custom tri and Bjorn & James on a Nacra 580 fast cat join me for the afternoon. Eventually, Paul & Allan Stuart pull up on Dawn Patrol to clear up the screecher sail before sailing off around the bend only to anchor just south also waiting for the weather to turn. I get restless and decide to attempt to make any progress south and leave the beach at 1:30 PM with a double reef in the main. Well needless to say after about 1 hour I made almost no progress and turned to the beach to join my friends awaiting a down-turn in the weather. A discussion with the sailors has Bjorn & James decided to leave late afternoon in their Nacra. The Nacra is a high-performance cat and is better suited for these high winds and sailing to weather. Chandler & I decide to leave about 1 AM at high tide and an expected lighter winds out of the East. Joe & Joe announce they'll wait for sunrise before deciding to sail forward.

 

Near 1AM on Monday morning Chandler & I shove off for Checkpoint 3 in light winds. I'm under full main with Chandler deciding to be cautious with a reefed main. In no time I cannot see him any longer even with a full moon so I'm feeling good. The 25 miles from the beach to Flamingo Checkpoint 3 passes quickly as I pull in at 7:25 AM. I decide to make a quick turnaround and attempt to be the first EC competitor to sail east directly across Florida Bay. This bay is very shallow with many tight and twisting channels. At 7:55 AM I'm off and find myself in a good mood as I see the finish in Key Largo only about 30 miles away.

 

Boy was I wrong!

 

As I enter the Florida Bay at Tin Can Channel, this 4+ mile channel is narrow and shallow. I make progress but run aground 15+ times where I need to get out of the boat in the muck and shove off to only once again round aground. Unfortunately, I make progress and continue eastward towards the finish. But by 10:30 AM I'm just outside Buoy Key where I run totally out of water. The boat cannot proceed any longer.

Remember this moment for later in this report it will be important as to how I misjudged my options to proceed towards the finish.

 

In the Everglades Challenge, almost every year one or more competitors get lost or off-track from the notorious Florida Bay channels and have to spend several days for the right tide and winds to release them from their poor decisions. Now I do not feel that for myself, it was just that the tide had gone out. But I'm an aggressive competitor and My decision is to retrace my steps back to Flamingo and look for the entrance the begins the short southern route at Murray Key. But as I approach the channel I see Chandler with his tri aground in the channel there as well. That leaves me with 2 options, stay at Flamingo waiting for the tides change to head back west all the way to the Capes. Guess what I choose... why wait! I'll just keep moving. The westerly sail is downwind fast and easy as the winds increase to 20+ knots. Eventually, I need to turn south and at that time the winds are at 25 knots. I was expecting an easy reach but instead, I'm sailing a tight close reach and my progress is slow. After 2-3 hours I'm feeling very rejected for I have made not one but 4 poor tactical decisions.

 

None of these decisions were life-threatening but they all have cost me valuable time.

 

As I begin to re-evaluate my situation again I see two small sand keys up ahead and decide to pull up on one of them. Now I'm on a beautiful beach and all alone. I know that no other competitor will be joining me here. Again is a warn and very sunny day with east winds hitting at over 25 knots. The plan is once again to stay on the beach till about 1 AM for when I expect the tide to be high and the winds easterly at about 10 knots. I make a bivouac to shield me from the winds and sun and take the time to rest sleep and get ready for the final push to the finish in Key Largo about 30 miles away. I take a walk up the beach to sit under a tree to smoke a good cigar and watch the sunset. Just off the beaches edge, I'm greeted with a 7' blacktip shark. He appears to be very successful in getting his dinner. When I sunsets I crawl under the bivouac for my final sleep before the finish tomorrow.

 

Wednesday morning 1 AM I'm off in 10 knots and under a full moon. My progress easterly to the inter-coastal waterway and the turn north comes easily but when I turn north I have to beat into the wind for the final 10 miles. Without a jib, I'm using the screecher which is a larger sail but it sets further off the bow. So I find myself going forward but also side-wards, the last leg to the finish is tiring but eventually I see the finish as I pull up to the finish line I have to admit... I spent.

 

Over-all a great challenge having taken me over 120 hours to finish. I find myself 3rd over-all as the solo class. My hats off to my fellow competitors and of course Chief and all his volunteers for hosting a great challenge.

 

We should all take a moment to think about Sailorman for he has lost his life doing what we all WaterTribers love to do, be outdoors, be challenged, be free and independent.

 

Sail on Sailorman


 

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sailorman.JPG

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11 hours ago, stumblingthunder said:

20kts boat speed has a quality all its own!   Their average speed for the course was 10.43 knots/hr (300 mi divided by 28.75 hours for the doubters.)  Bumpy and MachoMan still have the absolute course record of 26.2 hours.   

Spawn’s course average through Flamingo was 8.53kts/hr (265mi, 31.083 hours).   Their monohull record works out to 8.16kts/hr average (300mi/36.75 hrs).   The conditions would not allow them to finish in less than 5.75 hours going the long way.  

Amy’s blog has one last picture of Spawn’s interior under the bow in her latest entry showing a centerline plywood bulkhead split horizontally fore and aft   It looks like there was a lot of flexing of the boat while pounding in the seas they had experienced.    I’m glad they stopped when they did.

 

- Stumbling

I bet the speeds are higher for Chaos and SewSew.  The course is a bit less than 300 miles.  If you can take all the shortest routes it can be as low as 260 miles.  Of course going around Florida Bay adds miles and brings it closer to 300.  

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1 minute ago, ZeroTheHero said:

I bet the speeds are higher for Chaos and SewSew.  The course is a bit less than 300 miles.  If you can take all the shortest routes it can be as low as 260 miles.  Of course going around Florida Bay adds miles and brings it closer to 300.  

I’m certain they hit “Plaid Speed” more than a few times out there!

- Stumbling 

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2 hours ago, BravoBravo said:
3 hours ago, stumblingthunder said:

Capri 16.5   Going solo.  Fixing her up to sail through the summer,  then get started Tribe-a-fying her in the fall.   

-Stumbling 

Cool!

Yes, and a little nuts. In addition to the interesting designs created for this race, I enjoy watching completely inappropriate uses of common boats.

My favorite so far was the madman who decided a Finn was a good choice. I guess it was, since he made it.

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4 hours ago, stumblingthunder said:

Capri 16.5   Going solo.  Fixing her up to sail through the summer,  then get started Tribe-a-fying her in the fall.   

-Stumbling 

You'll have a sporty ride :D  Kick-up rudder?  Can you sleep OK on the cockpit floor or a thwart?  Rowing sculls for aux propulsion (ask around at local rowing clubs)? 

Because she's a pretty light boat, you could experiment with a couple of 5gal buckets (with screw-on watertight lids) that each provide 80# ballast when filled with wet sand and placed just forward of the hatch.  Fill before the start if blowing; dump if things lighten; or fill enroute if conditions freshen.  You can also just fill with water -- 40# each.

DKHT

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30 minutes ago, DonKeyHoTey said:
4 hours ago, stumblingthunder said:

Capri 16.5   Going solo.  Fixing her up to sail through the summer,  then get started Tribe-a-fying her in the fall.   

-Stumbling 

You'll have a sporty ride :D  Kick-up rudder?  Can you sleep OK on the cockpit floor or a thwart?  Rowing sculls for aux propulsion (ask around at local rowing clubs)? 

Because she's a pretty light boat, you could experiment with a couple of 5gal buckets (with screw-on watertight lids) that each provide 80# ballast when filled with wet sand and placed just forward of the hatch.  Fill before the start if blowing; dump if things lighten; or fill enroute if conditions freshen.  You can also just fill with water -- 40# each.

DKHT

Worth trying out, ballasting forward may affect the self-bailing which is one of the BIG advantages IMHO. I'd be more inclined, time permitting, making a ballasted centerboard to give better hang-time in hard situations off shore. You need enough drinking water, which may as well function as ballast.

Good reefing, good upwind performance, good rowing, good shallow-water running ability... interesting and difficult mix of characterisitics needed for the Challenge. I agree with TomR that a Finn is not a boat which jumps up and yells "Me! Me! Do the EC in ME!!" but hats off to the crazy determined WTer who succeeded. Last year we saw a relatively well prepped Windmill, dunno if he finished.

FB- Doug

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1 hour ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

Yes, and a little nuts. In addition to the interesting designs created for this race, I enjoy watching completely inappropriate uses of common boats.

My favorite so far was the madman who decided a Finn was a good choice. I guess it was, since he made it.

I don’t know, I think the vessel assembled from a star, laser and sunfish to be pretty out there.

- St

50 minutes ago, DonKeyHoTey said:

You'll have a sporty ride :D  Kick-up rudder?  Can you sleep OK on the cockpit floor or a thwart?  Rowing sculls for aux propulsion (ask around at local rowing clubs)? 

Because she's a pretty light boat, you could experiment with a couple of 5gal buckets (with screw-on watertight lids) that each provide 80# ballast when filled with wet sand and placed just forward of the hatch.  Fill before the start if blowing; dump if things lighten; or fill enroute if conditions freshen.  You can also just fill with water -- 40# each.

DKHT

- Stumbling 

 

1 hour ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

Yes, and a little nuts. In addition to the interesting designs created for this race, I enjoy watching completely inappropriate uses of common boats.

My favorite so far was the madman who decided a Finn was a good choice. I guess it was, since he made it.

I prefer the term: unencumbered mind.

My first idea was to buy a Thistle hull, split it down the middle, pull the stern apart a foot and a half, glass in the opened wedge on the bottom and deck it level with the top of the centerboard trunk.  The more I thought about it, the greater the long shot that the performance would be there. 

My aim is to have the potential to beat the single hand monohull record (Jarhead, 2 days 23.75 hrs, Sea pearl 21).

- Stumbling 

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Am in negotiations with a current competitor to buy their sculls and oarlocks.  Am thinking of a sliding rigger to keep the weight centered and also use the rails as support for a removable sleeping platform.   (Centerboard trailing edge rides above the floorboards fully retracted.)

- Stumbling 

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10 minutes ago, stumblingthunder said:

Triple.  Any more than that and someone would be dragging a Melges 24 off the beach.

- Stumbling 

 

Oh, I think Spawn would give a Melges 24 a run for her money in anything except just-planing broad reach. I darn sure wouldn't want to try and rig one for rowing, nor for sailing fast thru shallows.

I did not see the E-scow when they were there, they tried two or three times and did not finish. Some who saw the boat said it was a beater, not well rigged. Seems like a good choice for shallow running but not for rough water. I'd still like to fit up a Flying Dutchman for it.

FB- Doug

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2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I'd still like to fit up a Flying Dutchman for it.

FB- Doug

Yup -- though not with that rig, particularly solo!  I recently revived an fg '85 Parker 5o5 and re-rigged her with 105 sf lugs'l and 30 sf 420 jib for solo knocking about (55sf stock jib also usable but overkill).  Don't cringe -- she's PDQ, sweet-handling, and a hella lot more user-friendly than a Finn. The berserker in me would give her a 300 mile whirl.  But then I remember that I'm on Medicare, and that I've been in other ECs not much different from this year....

DKHT

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27 minutes ago, DonKeyHoTey said:

Yup -- though not with that rig, particularly solo!  I recently revived an fg '85 Parker 5o5 and re-rigged her with 105 sf lugs'l and 30 sf 420 jib for solo knocking about (55sf stock jib also usable but overkill).  Don't cringe -- she's PDQ, sweet-handling, and a hella lot more user-friendly than a Finn. The berserker in me would give her a 300 mile whirl.  But then I remember that I'm on Medicare, and that I've been in other ECs not much different from this year....

DKHT

Lugsails are very useful.

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Oh, I think Spawn would give a Melges 24 a run for her money in anything except just-planing broad reach. I darn sure wouldn't want to try and rig one for rowing, nor for sailing fast thru shallows.

I did not see the E-scow when they were there, they tried two or three times and did not finish. Some who saw the boat said it was a beater, not well rigged. Seems like a good choice for shallow running but not for rough water. I'd still like to fit up a Flying Dutchman for it.

FB- Doug

Spawn’s mast is a repurposed one from a Melges 20.   Apparently The first batch of masts had a flaw in them and were replaced.

-Stumbling 

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Oh, I think Spawn would give a Melges 24 a run for her money in anything except just-planing broad reach. I darn sure wouldn't want to try and rig one for rowing, nor for sailing fast thru shallows.

I did not see the E-scow when they were there, they tried two or three times and did not finish. Some who saw the boat said it was a beater, not well rigged. Seems like a good choice for shallow running but not for rough water. I'd still like to fit up a Flying Dutchman for it.

FB- Doug

Definitely a different boat.  This year’s E scow was a much better specimen than the one that made the appearances a while back. 

The fixed rudders limit them in the shallows, in addition to the addressing of performance in rough conditions.  Probably better to have a pair of kick up cat rudders mounted in some way on the transom.  

- Stumbling 

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I was disappointing to see that the modified Raider did not compete. Had been registered, but did not Confirm.     

This was my old FrankenRaider, an original hull design, the last one pulled from that mold. I put it together with spare parts, but it did have excellent sails, including a catamaran mainsail with reef points and a custom Glazer self tacking jib.

The new owner spent a lot of effort cutting the bow deck off and fashioning a cuddy cabin. I think an asymmetrical spin was also added. Would have made an excellent mount for the EC. Maybe next year.    Dave Ellis

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4 hours ago, stumblingthunder said:

Definitely a different boat.  This year’s E scow was a much better specimen than the one that made the appearances a while back. 

The fixed rudders limit them in the shallows, in addition to the addressing of performance in rough conditions.  Probably better to have a pair of kick up cat rudders mounted in some way on the transom.  

- Stumbling 

Fixed rudders for this race make zero sense.  The E-scow is an awesome boat but fixed rudders in shallows?  

I've only raced on an E-scow against other E-scows but against Melges 24s on other boats.  My gut, if the E-scow doesn't sink it crushes the Melges.

I definitely have the stupidity and doggedness to do this race.  Skill?  Probably not so much.

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On 3/17/2020 at 8:42 PM, ZeroTheHero said:

 I was planning on going solo in class 4 next year but that idea is gone now.  Far too much risk for me.

 

I enjoyed my solo experience this year.  Really let me get my head into it.  Came and went as I pleased, did as I pleased.

My wife hated it and sent me assistance when I hadn't asked for it and didn't need it.  However, I was aware of what was going on with the Core Sound and I knew she was aware, and one or 2 AIs had sunk, so I went along with it and pulled the plug early.  I wasn't making very good progress any way. 

I won't solo again, in the interest of not causing stress for wife and kids. 

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10 hours ago, stumblingthunder said:

I don’t know, I think the vessel assembled from a star, laser and sunfish to be pretty out there.

- St

- Stumbling 

 

I prefer the term: unencumbered mind.

My first idea was to buy a Thistle hull, split it down the middle, pull the stern apart a foot and a half, glass in the opened wedge on the bottom and deck it level with the top of the centerboard trunk.  The more I thought about it, the greater the long shot that the performance would be there. 

My aim is to have the potential to beat the single hand monohull record (Jarhead, 2 days 23.75 hrs, Sea pearl 21).

- Stumbling 

Beating Jarhead's record would be quite an achievement. If you want to succeed, I suggest you do a race two-up first so you can get a better feel for the course and the rhythms needed to go that fast. You will need a boat that rows well, too. It's a huge difference in hours to be able to row through a channel or inlet against wind and tide rather than just waiting for conditions to change. Or even just rowing 2-10 miles in a calm will cut so many hours from your time.  I know Jarhead rows a lot! And also hope you get the right weather the year you do it. 

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34 minutes ago, MisterMoon said:

Beating Jarhead's record would be quite an achievement. If you want to succeed, I suggest you do a race two-up first so you can get a better feel for the course and the rhythms needed to go that fast. You will need a boat that rows well, too. It's a huge difference in hours to be able to row through a channel or inlet against wind and tide rather than just waiting for conditions to change. Or even just rowing 2-10 miles in a calm will cut so many hours from your time.  I know Jarhead rows a lot! And also hope you get the right weather the year you do it. 

I've learned this year that a fast boat alone isn't going to be the fastest solo boat. I think the boat and skipper that can stay moving the longest without either failing is going to be the winning combination. My main focus for next time will be adjusting the nut behind the wheel.

I could have knocked several hours off my time with better rest strategy and several hours more with wind/routing strategy. Only experience can fix that. I've often heard that every race is different too. I want to build a pedal drive for my cat, but I don't think it would have made a huge difference to my overall time this year. 

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22 minutes ago, CatFive said:

I've learned this year that a fast boat alone isn't going to be the fastest solo boat. I think the boat and skipper that can stay moving the longest without either failing is going to be the winning combination. My main focus for next time will be adjusting the nut behind the wheel.

I could have knocked several hours off my time with better rest strategy and several hours more with wind/routing strategy. Only experience can fix that. I've often heard that every race is different too. I want to build a pedal drive for my cat, but I don't think it would have made a huge difference to my overall time this year. 

The point is not to have the fastest boat, but to not slow down.    I’ve got a lot of testing to do, rowing, maybe pedal drive.  

Likewise, making the boat efficient and easy to operate is a high priority.  

Finally, I’ve got to get my meat bag into shape to power the whole setup in marathon mode.  

Primary goal is to finish.  Anything after that is gravy.

- Stumbling  

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On 3/16/2020 at 1:42 PM, BravoBravo said:

that jog around Boca Grande is odd...maybe it was sloppy near the pass...we really don't know

I've gone across that pass on an incoming tide and 20+ knot east wind.  It was pretty nasty.

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2 hours ago, unShirley said:

The discussion above about various kinds of EC craft is interesting.  How did the Tremolino do this year?

They were the boat right next to ours. We helped them a little bit getting the boat together. They still did not have it rigged at the start and I'm not sure they ever even started. I have no idea what was going on with that couple, but they did not appear in a big hurry to get rigged and ready. 

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5 hours ago, CatFive said:

I've learned this year that a fast boat alone isn't going to be the fastest solo boat. I think the boat and skipper that can stay moving the longest without either failing is going to be the winning combination. My main focus for next time will be adjusting the nut behind the wheel.

I could have knocked several hours off my time with better rest strategy and several hours more with wind/routing strategy. Only experience can fix that. I've often heard that every race is different too. I want to build a pedal drive for my cat, but I don't think it would have made a huge difference to my overall time this year. 

Keeping moving is the real key. "Sail when you can, rest when you can't" is the mantra for the fast guys. 

Since I switched over from a monohull to a sailing kayak, I've discovered the pure luxury of sleeping on land. We could have gone faster if we'd set alarms in the morning and got going again at o'dark thirty but we knew we didn't want to be in Flamingo before Wednesday morning so we slept until sunrise every day but the last. It was delightful. 

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12 minutes ago, MisterMoon said:

They were the boat right next to ours. We helped them a little bit getting the boat together. They still did not have it rigged at the start and I'm not sure they ever even started. I have no idea what was going on with that couple, but they did not appear in a big hurry to get rigged and ready. 

I would think it would be a bear to drag off the beach.   The main hull has a pretty deep v to its shape.  I would think that would make it a bigger pita in shallow water.  

-Stumbling 

 

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58 minutes ago, stumblingthunder said:

I would think it (a Tremolino)  would be a bear to drag off the beach.   The main hull has a pretty deep v to its shape.  I would think that would make it a bigger pita in shallow water.  

-Stumbling 

 

Yes, it is definitely too heavy for two people to drag across the beach.  But the main hull does have a flat section that might allow it to be moved on those yellow rollers you guys use.  BTW:  where does one get those yellow rollers?

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17 minutes ago, unShirley said:

BTW:  where does one get those yellow rollers?

https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/aere-br.htm -- about $70 each -- or you can buy them directly from Aere. You generally need three for an EC beach launch.  At about 5' L x 9" OD, they have about 140# of buoyancy.  I keep them strapped under my side decks as flotation.  They make great backrests when  I'm sitting on the cockpit floor and not in my beanbag chair... 

DKHT

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I can drag my cat across grass all day long, but when I went to pull it down the beach, the sharp skegs dug in and I knew there was going to be problems. I tossed seaweed under the skegs thinking the boat would slide over it. Instead the seaweed stuck to the boat and created even more drag. I grabbed the anchor and set it on the beach. I had a snatch block ready to rig onto the rear beam. With 2:1 purchase, it was time consuming but definitely steady progress to the water. It's not weight so much as the darn skegs digging in. 

I envision a 'rope ladder' with pvc rungs laid out behind the hulls to act as sliders for next time.  

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31 minutes ago, CatFive said:

I can drag my cat across grass all day long, but when I went to pull it down the beach, the sharp skegs dug in and I knew there was going to be problems. I tossed seaweed under the skegs thinking the boat would slide over it. Instead the seaweed stuck to the boat and created even more drag. I grabbed the anchor and set it on the beach. I had a snatch block ready to rig onto the rear beam. With 2:1 purchase, it was time consuming but definitely steady progress to the water. It's not weight so much as the darn skegs digging in. 

I envision a 'rope ladder' with pvc rungs laid out behind the hulls to act as sliders for next time.  

In 2018 we used 4 small fenders.  2 under each hull.  Flew down the beach.  Would likely work for you too.  

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Safety Dance 20' Highlander Class Sailboat For Sale

Highlander # 912

2 Time EC finisher.

3rd in Class 2019

2nd in Class 2020

Full optimized for the EC, a fast reacher and runner with remarkable windward ability, even in shallow water with very little board down. Centerboard is faired, tough aluminum.

Full bow bulkhead, 1500 GPH Rule electric bilge pump, Hobie Bob masthead float, 2 deep reefs led to the mast. 2 jibs rigged for the Harken High Load roller furler with a halyard top swivel. new shrouds and forestay. Large factory seat air tanks with foam blocks inside.

Renova 150 watt solar panel with a Renova charge controller, 2 waterproof USB charging ports located conveniently underdeck. Garmin 64cv chartplotter Blue Chart G3 loaded with two sucessful EC tracks stored (with spray shield). Yusa 20ah motorcycle battery and a dedicated Lithona 8ah battery for the bilge pump.

3 North Arex spinnakers, 300 sqft and a 200 sqft symetric and a 430 sqft masthead asymetric flown from a 4.5 ft  carbon fiber sprit. tapered aluminum spinnaker pole, Crispy Quantum mainsail with 2 reefs. Jib halyard and main outhaul are led to Harken magic boxes,

Carbon fiber jib lead platforms, padded internal deck spanning the centerboard, 4 beach roller store under deck and are included. Running backstays for asym use. All Harken carbo/Ronstan carbon blocks and cleats.Vectran Halyards, spectra and dyeema running rigging.

Reinforced rudder and hardware that kicks up absolutely flush to the hull, suprisingly does not load up that badly when kicked up due to limited wetted surface. Carbon fiber tiller Ronstan battlestick extension.

Custom SPOT mount, multiple coaming mounted storage bags. 2 new Elvstrom sutcton bailers/transom ports. Mylar centerboard gasket, polished bottom with minimal scuffs.

Go anywhere trailer with recent tires.

Stored indoors 24/7  A absolutely turn key EC contender, fast, seaworthy and good to her crew.

Why? NateDog and I are going to give Class 5 a try.

$ 8500.

813 957 242 one

AndyMan

 

 

 

SD Passage Key.jpg

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At Wit's End's Windrider 17 is For Sale (Just 4 years old)

This is the Windrider justanothersailor sailed this 2020 EC.

Many upgrades include:

Screecher & prod , Main (2) reefs, jib

Bleacher seats

Peddle Drive

Running Back-stays

Electrical System / running lights, lighted compass

Proper reefing system that works

Topping lift

Anchor

Paddle

Whale Bilge Pump

Factory galvanized trailer

Asking $8,000

2018 EC Class 5 2nd place doublehanded

Class 5, Double Male /2 Days, 4 Hours, 25 Min


 

Contact justanothersailor guydeboer@gmail.com

89102148_10222212702456450_2572807082432528384_n.jpg

89114052_10222212702776458_2876653504405962752_n.jpg

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10 hours ago, sail10338 said:

Safety Dance 20' Highlander Class Sailboat For Sale

Highlander # 912

2 Time EC finisher.

3rd in Class 2019

2nd in Class 2020

Full optimized for the EC, a fast reacher and runner with remarkable windward ability, even in shallow water with very little board down. Centerboard is faired, tough aluminum.

Full bow bulkhead, 1500 GPH Rule electric bilge pump, Hobie Bob masthead float, 2 deep reefs led to the mast. 2 jibs rigged for the Harken High Load roller furler with a halyard top swivel. new shrouds and forestay. Large factory seat air tanks with foam blocks inside.

Renova 150 watt solar panel with a Renova charge controller, 2 waterproof USB charging ports located conveniently underdeck. Garmin 64cv chartplotter Blue Chart G3 loaded with two sucessful EC tracks stored (with spray shield). Yusa 20ah motorcycle battery and a dedicated Lithona 8ah battery for the bilge pump.

3 North Arex spinnakers, 300 sqft and a 200 sqft symetric and a 430 sqft masthead asymetric flown from a 4.5 ft  carbon fiber sprit. tapered aluminum spinnaker pole, Crispy Quantum mainsail with 2 reefs. Jib halyard and main outhaul are led to Harken magic boxes,

Carbon fiber jib lead platforms, padded internal deck spanning the centerboard, 4 beach roller store under deck and are included. Running backstays for asym use. All Harken carbo/Ronstan carbon blocks and cleats.Vectran Halyards, spectra and dyeema running rigging.

Reinforced rudder and hardware that kicks up absolutely flush to the hull, suprisingly does not load up that badly when kicked up due to limited wetted surface. Carbon fiber tiller Ronstan battlestick extension.

Custom SPOT mount, multiple coaming mounted storage bags. 2 new Elvstrom sutcton bailers/transom ports. Mylar centerboard gasket, polished bottom with minimal scuffs.

Go anywhere trailer with recent tires.

Stored indoors 24/7  A absolutely turn key EC contender, fast, seaworthy and good to her crew.

Why? NateDog and I are going to give Class 5 a try.

$ 8500.

813 957 242 one

AndyMan

 

 

 

SD Passage Key.jpg

As a formrt Thistle builder I think this is the coolest boat in the EC!

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