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19 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Lol it’s GD that just gifted 8 months unrestricted time to its most well resourced challenger.. dickhead. 

Than he made the whole thing fair by putting himself at a disadvantage didn't he.

Now you admit that Dalton just threw away his advantage.

 

 

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shes legit ... foil arm looks to be in the front end of the box ... opposite of all other teams ... what are we going to read into that?

ETNZ are probably favorites .....but win or lose....Team New Zealand have firmly established themselves as the all time great AC nation in the modern era.   From the time they first emerged, they have

And so it begins. Image credit and copyright Allesandro Spiga  

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2 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Meanwhile ETNZ are doing simulation work, which thus far has proven to be a far more accurate and effective tool.

I wouldn't say, 'far more accurate'.

More like, infinitely more accelerated, scalable and cost effective, maybe.

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5 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

 

Imagine being a F1 engineer and your boss coming down and telling you that you have to deal with a silly flying boat that you know nothing about.  These relationships are going to where out quickly.

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4 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Imagine being a F1 engineer and your boss coming down and telling you that you have to deal with a silly flying boat that you know nothing about.  These relationships are going to where out quickly.

I disagree.

I am of the opinion that Mercedes AMG F1 expertise in CFD and aerodynamics will be very helpful in wing design and optimization if not in foil design, but I accept that I could be wrong about that.

Having said that, even if Mercedes is of no use whatsoever on the design side I expect they will bring a lot to the table in:

  • manufacturing (carbon fabrication and titanium and aluminum machining)
  • quality control and destructive testing
  • hydraulics
  • control systems
  • computer systems and simulations
  • telemetry systems and analysis of telemetry data
  • logistics
  • marketing
  • rules and regulations compliance and optimization
  • project management
  • physio and nutrition
  • management, resource allocation and project management
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1 minute ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

I disagree.

I am of the opinion that Mercedes AMG F1 expertise in CFD and aerodynamics will be very helpful in wing design and optimization if not in foil design, but I accept that I could be wrong about that.

Having said that, even if Mercedes is of no use whatsoever on the design side I expect they will bring a lot to the table in:

  • manufacturing (carbon fabrication and titanium and aluminum machining)
  • quality control and destructive testing
  • hydraulics
  • control systems
  • computer systems and simulations
  • telemetry systems and analysis of telemetry data
  • logistics
  • marketing
  • rules and regulations compliance and optimization
  • project management
  • physio and nutrition
  • management, resource allocation and project management

And when it comes down to it, they are going to follow the money and focus on winning F1.....not some AC event that is televised on facebook and youtube and whose sponsors are the companies that the owners already own.

Why did we come in 18th place at last weekend's grand prix - oh because 5 of the guys were busy working on America's Cup CFD and VPP

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1 minute ago, Chobani Sailor said:

And when it comes down to it, they are going to follow the money and focus on winning F1.....not some AC event that is televised on facebook and youtube and whose sponsors are the companies that the owners already own.

Why did we come in 18th place at last weekend's grand prix - oh because 5 of the guys were busy working on America's Cup CFD and VPP

18th in the last Grand Prix was Mazepin driving for Haas. What are you on about?

Mercedes AMG has 1500 employees, and they cannot keep them all under the new budget limits. This is a very sensible way for Mercedes to keep the talent on the payroll.

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Just now, SF Woody Sailor said:

18th in the last Grand Prix was Mazepin driving for Haas. What are you on about?

Mercedes AMG has 1500 employees, and they cannot keep them all under the new budget limits. This is a very sensible way for Mercedes to keep the talent on the payroll.

18th was just a foreshadowing example, not specific to this past weekend.

Budget limits - exactly correct - hiding people on AC teams to do work for the F1 team.  These guys will be doing F1 work, not AC work.  It's just to hide employees. 

A dozen years ago there was an NBA team in the midwest (milwaukee, memphis, minnesota - i forget which one) that to avoid salary cap issues paid a player from the owner's company.  They got caught.  Team lost several draft picks and fined a bunch of money.

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1 minute ago, Chobani Sailor said:

18th was just a foreshadowing example, not specific to this past weekend.

Budget limits - exactly correct - hiding people on AC teams to do work for the F1 team.  These guys will be doing F1 work, not AC work.  It's just to hide employees. 

A dozen years ago there was an NBA team in the midwest (milwaukee, memphis, minnesota - i forget which one) that to avoid salary cap issues paid a player from the owner's company.  They got caught.  Team lost several draft picks and fined a bunch of money.

I suspect Toto is smarter than anyone in Milwaukee or Memphis.^_^

 

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2 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

18th was just a foreshadowing example, not specific to this past weekend.

Budget limits - exactly correct - hiding people on AC teams to do work for the F1 team.  These guys will be doing F1 work, not AC work.  It's just to hide employees. 

A dozen years ago there was an NBA team in the midwest (milwaukee, memphis, minnesota - i forget which one) that to avoid salary cap issues paid a player from the owner's company.  They got caught.  Team lost several draft picks and fined a bunch of money.

Wow. Thats some Tucker Carlson Fox News Conspiracy theory level shit!

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Wow. Thats some Tucker Carlson Fox News Conspiracy theory level shit!

Remember that bullshit challenge that the NYYC presented to ENTZ - in it it had a spending cap.  TNZ laughed at the idea of being able to actually audit a team's expenses.  It's easy to hide stuff (like offshore accounts and money sent to Hungary)

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2 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Remember that bullshit challenge that the NYYC presented to ENTZ - in it it had a spending cap.  TNZ laughed at the idea of being able to actually audit a team's expenses.  It's easy to hide stuff (like offshore accounts and money sent to Hungary)

On spending caps, or budgets really, GD said in the radio interview I reposted today (it was from a week ago) that he felt that with the new Protocol's cost-savers a new team could come in - and be successful - for about US$60M. Presumably a team with existing assets could then do it for even less? So... Why the budget problem for a successful defense in home-town Auckland? His own numbers don't add up.. 

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1 minute ago, Stingray~ said:

On spending caps, or budgets really, GD said in the radio interview I reposted today (it was from a week ago) that he felt that with the new Protocol's cost-savers a new team could come in - and be successful - for about US$60M. Presumably a team with existing assets could then do it for even less? So... Why the budget problem for a successful defense in home-town Auckland? His own numbers don't add up.. 

10% of that is being spent on required AC40 $2M and two HSVs at $2M a piece. $6M spent on new stuff.  $60M BS

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3 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

10% of that is being spent on required AC40 $2M and two HSVs at $2M a piece. $6M spent on new stuff.  $60M BS

When you add the two entry fee installments it reaches around $8.5M according to an article that broke it all down. Some of the $6M is useful value though.

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2 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

When you add the two entry fee installments it reaches around $8.5M according to an article that broke it all down. Some of the $6M is useful value though.

The first installment of the initial entry fee is US$1,000,000. And then the second installment of US$1,250,000.00 needs to be paid by the 1st September 2022.

And then there are the additional fees.

ACPI contribution – US$25,000
Website contribution – US$150,000
Performance Bond – US$1,000,000

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35 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Remember that bullshit challenge that the NYYC presented to ENTZ - in it it had a spending cap.  TNZ laughed at the idea of being able to actually audit a team's expenses.  It's easy to hide stuff (like offshore accounts and money sent to Hungary)

So they should've. A spending cap means restrictions on design. Design is where the big bucks are spent.

You want design restrictions? Most here also laugh at the idea of design restrictions.

You can't have no design restrictions and cost reduction as well, the two go hand in hand.

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1 hour ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Imagine being a F1 engineer and your boss coming down and telling you that you have to deal with a silly flying boat that you know nothing about.  These relationships are going to where out quickly.

Imagine not realising that james Allison had actually stepped back from his role in The F1 team over a year ago..

 

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On 11/21/2021 at 8:15 AM, Gissie said:

So NZ is fairly sure they have the best software to do all the testing without anything physical needed.

It would also make it next to impossible for any new team to bother joining up as they would be starting development and fine tuning of this software.

It would look more and more like the team is asking for new challengers on the one hand, making it impossible on the other. Makes sense, less chances of losing the poisoned chalice.

The best package is also an attractive package they could sell to new teams to get them up to speed too.

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3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

On spending caps, or budgets really, GD said in the radio interview I reposted today (it was from a week ago) that he felt that with the new Protocol's cost-savers a new team could come in - and be successful - for about US$60M. Presumably a team with existing assets could then do it for even less? So... Why the budget problem for a successful defense in home-town Auckland? His own numbers don't add up.. 

Maybe $60m is a discounted rate for a team who comes in and buys a second hand boat, and design packages and as much help as they can. They still have a "shot".

Maybe ETNZ can't do it for less because because they are not a new team buying help, but a team of over 120 working at the cutting edge and keeping everything else going.

Or maybe they need more to cover previous shortfalls from previous campaigns. 

Who knows. Who cares. We don't know how or what he is calculating as regards to "costs".

It's expensive, it always has been. A $20m campaign in the 80's and 90's is a $60m campaign now.

move along...

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23 minutes ago, ChairborneRanger said:

Maybe $60m is a discounted rate for a team who comes in and buys a second hand boat, and design packages and as much help as they can. They still have a "shot".

Maybe ETNZ can't do it for less because because they are not a new team buying help, but a team of over 120 working at the cutting edge and keeping everything else going.

Or maybe they need more to cover previous shortfalls from previous campaigns. 

Who knows. Who cares. We don't know how or what he is calculating as regards to "costs".

It's expensive, it always has been. A $20m campaign in the 80's and 90's is a $60m campaign now.

move along...

Agree with the gist of it, my guess is that a competitive AC campaign these days runs north of USD$100M.

But again, it's a touch two-faced for GD to be claiming the campaign costs have been reduced so much that $60M could do it while simultaneously claiming that despite this, the abundant money on offer in Auckland is not 'enough' for him.

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31 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

the abundant money on offer in Auckland

What is this 'abundant money on offer in Auckland' you so confidently speak of?

Are you referring to the Tooth Fairy, Santa Clause or our Government's printed billions? ;-)

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34 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

What is this 'abundant money on offer in Auckland' you so confidently speak of?

Why are they not at least looking into it instead of intentionally ignoring their home-town heroes? Both KHD and Farmer have pointed directly at NZ's own public numbers, they want to make it happen at home, in Auckland.

A constant refrain from you, and I'm assuming others, is that you doubt if MD will come through on the $40M if/when GD agrees to hold the Defense at home. Here's my question:

 What if MD is being honest?

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1 minute ago, Stingray~ said:

Why are they not at least looking into it instead of intentionally ignoring their home-town heroes? Both KHD and Farmer have pointed directly at NZ's own public numbers, they want to make it happen in Auckland.

Dunphy can't be trusted. Team NZ and the Squadron have told him that.

He can fuck right off.

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47 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Are you referring to the Tooth Fairy, Santa Clause or our Government's printed billions? ;-)

Funny but is it possible that GD hates all of them, they are all on his growing and very-long shit-list and this 'hate list' prevents him from making rational decisions?

Maybe GD's emotions are screwing things up? Why are there so intentionally no Come To Jesus moments happening in Auckland? What oversight guidance is missing?

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I prefer that AC37 be defended in Auckland, have made no bones about that. Defended successfully even, if conducted fairly.

This guy Dunphy, on a TE show recently, convinced me that this is what will inevitably happen. He even said something like 'One of these mornings they will wake up with the realization about what is the right thing to do.'

 

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2 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

I prefer that AC37 be defended in Auckland, have made no bones about that. Defended successfully even, if conducted fairly.

This guy Dunphy, on a TE show recently, convinced me that this what will happen. He even said something like 'One of these mornings they will wake up with the realization about what is right.'

 

You are seriously deluded. 

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17 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Funny but is it possible that GD hates all of them, they are all on his growing and very-long shit-list and this 'hate list' prevents him from making rational decisions?

Maybe GD's emotions are screwing things up? Why are there so intentionally no Come To Jesus moments happening in Auckland? What oversight guidance is missing?

Who gives a shit? Dalton won the cup, like every other defender before him, he decides where the defence is held. Thats what happens when you win.

 

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Funny but is it possible that GD hates all of them, they are all on his growing and very-long shit-list and this 'hate list' prevents him from making rational decisions?

Maybe GD's emotions are screwing things up? Why are there so intentionally no Come To Jesus moments happening in Auckland? What oversight guidance is missing?

TRUST is missing. 

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

I prefer that AC37 be defended in Auckland, have made no bones about that. Defended successfully even, if conducted fairly.

This guy Dunphy, on a TE show recently, convinced me that this is what will inevitably happen. He even said something like 'One of these mornings they will wake up with the realization about what is the right thing to do.'

 

Good grief, Stinger. You really do believe in fairy tales. Awww... sweet. 

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Just now, Sailbydate said:

Good grief, Stinger. You really do believe in fairy tales. Awww... sweet. 

Not only that, better call it delusional actually. And increasingly incomprehensible with lots of question marks, and making up accusitions and insinuations like a vile woman.

Maybe the Pinot kicked in again, or is it Chianty these days?  (yes I know, an insinuation,but based on his track record in that respect).

 

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19 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Going by the article on the front page, the press accreditation application for SA  got turned down again 

:lol:

It is a very childish and petulant article. Judging by the poor standard of grammar and general writing, a 12 year old maybe?

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1 hour ago, enigmatically2 said:

It is a very childish and petulant article. Judging by the poor standard of grammar and general writing, a 12 year old maybe?

110 Facebook rants. Wow. Journalism is such a tough gig these days. 

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You can call him Ben Ainslie if you prefer the informal (as I do) or Sir Ben Ainslie if you are channelling a character from Game of Thrones. But what the fuck is "Sir" Ben Ainslie supposed to signify except petulance on the author's part? 

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8 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Compared to say, a deep sea fisherman, soldier, nurse or sewerage pipe cleaner?

Actually, I think a 'sewerage pipe cleaner' might be an appropriate analogy. ;-)

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5 hours ago, Gissie said:

As in no one trusts Dalton?

As in, TNZ has no trust in, Dunphy. But you already knew that's what I meant, right? ;-)

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18 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

As in, TNZ has no trust in, Dunphy. 

I honestly have no idea why some folks 'have no trust in Dunphy.' Is it because all that money must be 'too good to be true' or what?

Why would he offer $20M and now $40M unless he absolutely means it? The argument makes absolutely no sense!

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Isn't there anyone willing to explain (in this largely anonymous forum) the source of this "mistrust"? It seems to me that the NZ government has put some firm ($80mm?) money on the table. Dunphy has put some firm money on the table. Between the two it is certainly enough to mount a viable defense with the likelihood of more dollars to follow.

Mr. Dunphy has already apologized for his premature wish to see GD ousted.  It appears that he is very sincere in his desire to spend $40mm of his own hard earned cash to keep the defense in home waters. 

There is no need to spend money on the defense logistics. The last time I was there the viaduct looked just as splendid as when I went for the 2000 & 2003 Cups. Make the challengers pay for their bases. The entry fee will easily cover the umpires and race committee boats setting the marks. One could probably get Rolex or someone to cover the cost of the marks themselves. I hereby volunteer to serve as an International Juror for merely room and board.

New Zealand is, with good reason, a very proud nation with a heritage of good sportsmanship. How in the world could a Kiwi look in the mirror with pride after winning an America's Cup regatta in Jeddah?

 

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20 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

I honestly have no idea why some folks 'have no trust in Dunphy.' Is it because all that money must be 'too good to be true' or what?

Why would he offer $20M and now $40M unless he absolutely means it? The argument makes absolutely no sense!

I don't understand why he doesn't just sponsor the boat for $40M contingent on the event in Auckland - put his face on the sail.  Good advertisement

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2 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Isn't there anyone willing to explain (in this largely anonymous forum) the source of this "mistrust"? It seems to me that the NZ government has put some firm ($80mm?) money on the table. Dunphy has put some firm money on the table. Between the two it is certainly enough to mount a viable defense with the likelihood of more dollars to follow.

Mr. Dunphy has already apologized for his premature wish to see GD ousted.  It appears that he is very sincere in his desire to spend $40mm of his own hard earned cash to keep the defense in home waters. 

There is no need to spend money on the defense logistics. The last time I was there the viaduct looked just as splendid as when I went for the 2000 & 2003 Cups. Make the challengers pay for their bases. The entry fee will easily cover the umpires and race committee boats setting the marks. One could probably get Rolex or someone to cover the cost of the marks themselves. I hereby volunteer to serve as an International Juror for merely room and board.

New Zealand is, with good reason, a very proud nation with a heritage of good sportsmanship. How in the world could a Kiwi look in the mirror with pride after winning an America's Cup regatta in Jeddah?

 

My understanding was the Auckland and NZ Govt pulled the money that they initially put on the table.   Additionally I have heard the TNZ is being evicted from their base and moving into the Ineos base that still remains standing although empty.

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16 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

My understanding was the Auckland and NZ Govt pulled the money that they initially put on the table.   Additionally I have heard the TNZ is being evicted from their base and moving into the Ineos base that still remains standing although empty.

If you listen to MD and Co at KHD, Auk and Govt are willing to re-up their offer of $30M for running the event (but with budgetary oversight this time) - and free use of all the waterfront facilities, which they say is worth $70M if put to other rent and usage. That leaves whatever sponsorship GD can raise plus the $40M. And if GD is saying that is not enough, then before they up the offer then they want him to open the books to explain why - which could be why GD sees them as a 'threat'?    

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On 11/25/2021 at 6:34 PM, Stingray~ said:

This guy Dunphy, on a TE show recently, convinced me that this is what will inevitably happen. He even said something like 'One of these mornings they will wake up with the realization about what is the right thing to do.'

My uncle and aunt recently asked me what I thought about Dunphy and his AC dealings. I am the AC tragic in my family (like all you lot) so I often get asked what's happening. I told them "He's a dick. He needs to pony up $100m or fuck off" 

They then explained he's a friend of their's. Oh crap, that crawling feeling of having insulted someone's friend.

"You're right though" they replied "he's a dick."

Okaaaay ...

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3 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

My uncle and aunt recently asked me what I thought about Dunphy and his AC dealings. I am the AC tragic in my family (like all you lot) so I often get asked what's happening. I told them "He's a dick. He needs to pony up $100m or fuck off" 

They then explained he's a friend of their's. Oh crap, that crawling feeling of having insulted someone's friend.

"You're right though" they replied "he's a dick."

Okaaaay ...

Funny!

There are some strong-willed (dick-headed) folks at loggerheads, that's for sure..

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37 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

It seems to me that the NZ government has put some firm ($80mm?) money on the table

I can't remember the exact figures but it is no where near $80m in real money. The majority was "in kind" with about $20m folding cash which wouldn't build much of a boat. Budget needs to be 100's of millions, not tens.

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7 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

I can't remember the exact figures but it is no where near $80m in real money. The majority was "in kind" with about $20m folding cash which wouldn't build much of a boat. Budget needs to be 100's of millions, not tens.

Some of the arguments in Cork are already about the same 'in kind' costs to the govt. It's a big part of the ask. Some would argue they need to simply move forward planned improvements to that waterfront but obviously there are competing interests for what if anything to try to move forward from future-year budgets and funding a team from overseas with folding cash could be pretty low on that list too.

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To add: A recent quote reported in an Irish paper said the Dept of Sports hoped to have a decision made by late March or early April (coinciding with GD's latest timeline) but it sounded like that decision would be about whether to pursue the bid up the tree to govt for possible approval there, and so then pursue working out a possible Host Venue Agreement, etc, so who knows if '24 is even remotely feasible in Cork. 

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Let's think about this, for a moment, as a taxpayer or resident of Auckland or Cork or Valencia or Jeddah.

* In Auckland or Valencia the infrastructure already exists and the weather is pretty agreeable.

* In Jeddah there is no bacon & no beer. When they originally invited us they thought it would be a couple of weeks like F1 or football. They didn't realize it was a multi-year event.

* In Cork the weather sucks and there is no obvious support from the government

* Spain is broke. Do we really expect Valencia to come up with enough money to bribe TNZ? 

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

That leaves whatever sponsorship GD can raise plus the $40M. 

But who will sponsor when, for all the millions you supply, Emirates still gets main billing as the major sponsor. You just get a small square on the bottom of the sail and back of the promo material.

This is why he has no interest in chasing sponsors, he needs the venue to pay it all.

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

I honestly have no idea why some folks 'have no trust in Dunphy.' Is it because all that money must be 'too good to be true' or what?

Why would he offer $20M and now $40M unless he absolutely means it? The argument makes absolutely no sense!

Because actions speak louder than words. And all Dunphy has is words. Words don't pay the bills.

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13 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

OK, but if I am VP of marketing for Heineken or Procter and Gamble this whole thing is a shit show. Please provide the narrative of the plucky Kiwis in their own harbor against the might of UK and SUI. I could sell that.

Even if you still have to accept almost no coverage, being hidden behind Emirates at every event?

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26 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Even if you still have to accept almost no coverage, being hidden behind Emirates at every event?

You get what you pay for. If you're prepared to pay the big bucks like Emirates has been, you get the big spot, you pay for a small spot as Skyy Vodka did in 2013, you get a small spot.

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6 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

I just re-watched the last leg of the 7th race of the LV final in 2000.  Has there ever been a better race?

I'm sure that was good. The final race in Valencia 2007 was a nailbiter too but (unfortunately) because the wind did a complete freaking 180 as they approached the finish line.

One of the races in AC36 had something crazy like 10 lead changes (!)  - epic but can't remember if that was in the Match or the CSS Finals.

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23 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

You get what you pay for. If you're prepared to pay the big bucks like Emirates has been, you get the big spot, you pay for a small spot as Skyy Vodka did in 2013, you get a small spot.

Except it would appear Emirates is paying nothing and still getting the big spot.

Maybe Dalts did a sponsor two, get one free sort of deal.

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7 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Except it would appear Emirates is paying nothing and still getting the big spot.

Maybe Dalts did a sponsor two, get one free sort of deal.

Or maybe Dalts is repaying the loyalty Emirates has shown over the last 17 years, and respecting the fact that without Emirates, Team NZ wouldn't have the success it is currently enjoying. Without Emirates Team NZ would've ended in humiliation after being white washed in 03. Instead they're looking at a 3peat.

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Or maybe Dalts is repaying the loyalty Emirates has shown over the last 17 years, and respecting the fact that without Emirates, Team NZ wouldn't have the success it is currently enjoying. Without Emirates Team NZ would've ended in humiliation after being white washed in 03. Instead they're looking at a 3peat.

So he respects the 17 years of support from Emirates and gives them a freebie, but not the Kiwis that have done even more.

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38 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

What about it? Maybe if they want it, they should pay for it. Or make Jacinda pay for it.

So loyalty for Emirates, yet the taxpayer should double their payment or piss off. Nice one. Are you a trolly dolly for Emirates?

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6 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

honestly have no idea why some folks 'have no trust in Dunphy.' Is it because all that money must be 'too good to be true' or what?

Why would he offer $20M and now $40M unless he absolutely means it? The argument makes absolutely no sense!

It comes down to the way he's run his campaign, he didn't approach the team with a "I have x million, lets sort out a home defence", he went public trying to oust GD from the get go. Then when that didn't work he offered x million via a complicated tax structure that essentially worked out as a corporate buyout, and probably meant the whole thing is a huge tax dodge for him.

5 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

That leaves whatever sponsorship GD can raise plus the $40M. And if GD is saying that is not enough, then before they up the offer then they want him to open the books to explain why - which could be why GD sees them as a 'threat'?  

Classic corporate behaviour again is to want to see the books then walk away with that information, given his earlier aggresive takeover attempt theres no way anyone sane would let you see the books.

This money still has strings attached remember, if MD suddenly decides its not viable he can claw it all back, again thats not a sane way to run a defense, you need to start spending that money now, in the AC you can't buy time.

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9 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

It comes down to the way he's run his campaign, he didn't approach the team with a "I have x million, lets sort out a home defence", he went public trying to oust GD from the get go. Then when that didn't work he offered x million via a complicated tax structure that essentially worked out as a corporate buyout, and probably meant the whole thing is a huge tax dodge for him.

Classic corporate behaviour again is to want to see the books then walk away with that information, given his earlier aggresive takeover attempt theres no way anyone sane would let you see the books.

This money still has strings attached remember, if MD suddenly decides its not viable he can claw it all back, again thats not a sane way to run a defense, you need to start spending that money now, in the AC you can't buy time.

Takeover attempt?? Am not seeing that.

As to 'ousting GD' he clarified later that folks in his circle wanted to separate management of funds for the Event from funds for managing the team's Defense. It is an argument that has been made for years already, so no surprise there, it likely jives with the public money entities' take on it too. The tax rate money should be non-profit, in their estimation.

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3 hours ago, Gissie said:

Even if you still have to accept almost no coverage, being hidden behind Emirates at every event?

It's been done before. Remember, Camper powered by Emirates Team New Zealand?

 

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23 minutes ago, Gissie said:

So loyalty for Emirates, yet the taxpayer should double their payment or piss off. Nice one. Are you a trolly dolly for Emirates?

They got no loyalty from the taxpayers during the Bermuda campaign.

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4 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Takeover attempt?? Am not seeing that.

His original funding effort involved corporate restructure of ETNZ underneath one of his companies, not sure what else you'd call that.

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If MD came out and said "here's $40 million in escrow contingent only on the defence being in Auckland" he'd probably get a lot further, but I don't believe he's soley interested in a home defence, which is fair enough, if you're investing a chunk of money you want some say in how things are done, but he's not being honest about that to the public.

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3 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

I don't believe he's soley interested in a home defence

I listened to that guy for about an hour on a TE show and got absolutely no sense of him wanting anything else but a Home Defense. He even asked 'Why is it so damn hard to give away money this big?'

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Just now, Stingray~ said:

I listened to that guy for about an hour on a TE show and got absolutely no sense of him wanting anything else but a Home Defense. He even asked 'Why is it so damn hard to give away money this big?'

Exactly, I don't believe he's being honest with the public. The reason why is his terms and conditons.

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5 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

I listened to that guy for about an hour on a TE show and got absolutely no sense of him wanting anything else but a Home Defense. He even asked 'Why is it so damn hard to give away money this big?'

Because when someone says "show me the money" and your response is, "I don't have it on me, but im willing to talk about it" its game over.

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13 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

Exactly, I don't believe he's being honest with the public. The reason why is his terms and conditons.

All I heard about conditions was that GD sign to an agreement it will be held in Auckland. I can imagine it being a touch more complicated but you should go watch that episode, MD looked both dead-honest and dead-determined. Completely fearless too, I don't think this is going to be over any time soon. He thinks he's doing 'the right thing' and is more than willing to make that happen. 

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Just now, Stingray~ said:

All I heard about conditions was that GD sign to an agreement it will be held in Auckland. I can imagine it being a touch more complicated but you should go watch that episode, he looked both dead-honest and dead-determined.  

I actually did watch parts of it, but several of his statements fly in the face of what he has actually done. Actions speak louder than deadpan faces and words, you don't get to be in his position without a great poker face.

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2 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

All I heard about conditions was that GD sign to an agreement it will be held in Auckland. I can imagine it being a touch more complicated but you should go watch that episode, he looked both dead-honest and dead-determined. Completely fearless too, I don't think is going to be over any time soon.  

What you heard was a fairytale.

What you think about it is irrelevant.

Its already over. Dunphy, Farmer and Ross are toast.

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Don't get me wrong, I would love for the cup to be defended in Auckland, I might even carry out my threat to go live there for the year if COVID lets us; I just don't think MD is being open about his motives, I think at best he'd like to replace GD or Matteo, or at worst its all a ploy to get a defender challenge.

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Just now, JonRowe said:

I actually did watch parts of it, but several of his statements fly in the face of what he has actually done. Actions speak louder than deadpan faces and words, you don't get to be in his position without a great poker face.

True but again, why would he guarantee money that big if he was not going to come through? That makes no sense whatsoever. 

Okay, for in case anyone wants to 'judge his pokerface' or whatever:

TFE LIVE #466 (2021-10-29) w. Tom Ehman. Excerpt with guest Mark Dunphy and AC37 segment. - YouTube

 

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36 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

They got no loyalty from the taxpayers during the Bermuda campaign.

But lots of loyalty from Kiwis.

In your world it would seem there needs to be cash involved for there to be any real support.

Sad at best.

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13 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

...MD looked both dead-honest and dead-determined. Completely fearless too, I don't think this is going to be over any time soon. He thinks he's doing 'the right thing' and is more than willing to make that happen. 

Righteous, as well as wealthy. Just as well he doesn't claim God is on his side too, or GD really would be in trouble. :D

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