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shes legit ... foil arm looks to be in the front end of the box ... opposite of all other teams ... what are we going to read into that?

ETNZ are probably favorites .....but win or lose....Team New Zealand have firmly established themselves as the all time great AC nation in the modern era.   From the time they first emerged, they have

Slowly working through yesterday's lot

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16 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

We didn't see it get loaded on the vodka shuttle though.

So they're erecting a new stick?

If memory serves me correctly each team can have three masts and all except American Magic elected to have their masts built by Southern Spars so INEOS and Prada do not need to fly masts to Auckland because that is where they are built.

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26 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

If memory serves me correctly each team can have three masts and all except American Magic elected to have their masts built by Southern Spars so INEOS and Prada do not need to fly masts to Auckland because that is where they are built.

Correct however what about the mast they have been using in home waters? Shipped with B1 if they have a new mast ready and waiting?

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1 hour ago, Horn Rock said:

We didn't see it get loaded on the vodka shuttle though.

So they're erecting a new stick?

I believe so. The V1 will be getting a bit long in the tooth now in terms of hours under load. It also had to be reinforced early on.

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27 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

I believe so. The V1 will be getting a bit long in the tooth now in terms of hours under load. It also had to be reinforced early on.

So will the entire fleet get to purchase V2 masts off Southern is there a limit.

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2 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

If memory serves me correctly each team can have three masts

I grew up sailing in Maine, and sometimes we would see The Victory Chimes sailing past. That is a 3 masted schooner windjammer you can rent a bunk on for a vacation. Since seeing this post, I can't stop imagining the AC75s racing against each other with 3 masts each.

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16 minutes ago, nroose said:

I grew up sailing in Maine, and sometimes we would see The Victory Chimes sailing past. That is a 3 masted schooner windjammer you can rent a bunk on for a vacation. Since seeing this post, I can't stop imagining the AC75s racing against each other with 3 masts each.

Better book a berth on The Victory Chimes has’t been a schooner in the AC for many many moons..

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2 hours ago, nroose said:

I grew up sailing in Maine, and sometimes we would see The Victory Chimes sailing past. That is a 3 masted schooner windjammer you can rent a bunk on for a vacation. Since seeing this post, I can't stop imagining the AC75s racing against each other with 3 masts each.

Nice boat.

victory-chimes-sail_6.jpg

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3 hours ago, Priscilla said:

So will the entire fleet get to purchase V2 masts off Southern is there a limit?

 

5 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

If memory serves me correctly each team can have three masts and all except American Magic elected to have their masts built by Southern Spars so INEOS and Prada do not need to fly masts to Auckland because that is where they are built.

 

3 masts is my recollection as well.

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5 hours ago, nroose said:

I grew up sailing in Maine, and sometimes we would see The Victory Chimes sailing past. That is a 3 masted schooner windjammer you can rent a bunk on for a vacation. Since seeing this post, I can't stop imagining the AC75s racing against each other with 3 masts each.

I hear yah!

My vision was always for ultra modern 2 or 3 masted schooners, with a requirement for massive aft overhang!

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~1:20 thats a prominent skeg, more in Luna Rossa form than TNZ but I think fatter than LR for higher proportion of non-foiling buoyancy TNZ style.

Flat bottom of the skeg could help to skim without much drag penalty & matching cradle form confirms its not just packaging bump.

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I don't see that? The dip in the cradle (with a flat profile) doesn't seem to have any hull filling it (1:36). 

I can't really tell from the covering if it has a skeg or not. 

Certainly the waterline is much narrower at the transom, and it perhaps looks like there night be a bit of a skeg running up to the rudder exit position, although that could just be where the shrink wrap has pulled tight. 

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the skeg type bit that goes back toward the rudder is most visible side on at 3:07. But, that's a bit weird as it goes right far back, which they're glue on skeg for B1 doesn't. 

The cradle certainly looks dipped in the middle, but that metal cradle isn't contoured to the shape of the hull. You can see light through it, between the cradle and wrap. 

Maybe the cradle was made before they'd decided what was going to be stuck on the bottom? So there is now more clearance on eh cradle than needed? 

I've heard that the moulds didn't have an obvious skeg. And the hull was signed off before they went to italy, and well before they glued a skeg to B1. 

I find it hard to tell what is there from that shrink wrap. Skeg like luna rossa, narrow waterline  / belly like ENTZ, or space for a glue on after thought like B1? I can't tell. Maybe it's a flat area ready to accept a prosthetic skeg once unloaded at NZL base?

Some things I feel more certain about. It much narrower and tapered at the stern. The bow has a much finer entry, rather than rounded / blunt effort from before. 

Excited to see these next iterations break cover!

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They most certainly are protecting something on the bottom of the hull.  It almost looks like it is flat and comes to a point at the back.  Of course, the could just be the protective packaging or just a disguise.     or the rudder.  the cradle has a gap in it

 2136473380_UKB23.thumb.jpg.d3651fd79b45cf1e94c25e5bf61e76c6.jpg

970828187_UKB21.thumb.jpg.f62dbc844c09574208000a20cf04145b.jpg1634619069_UKB22.thumb.jpg.28bc22d3023c874c667333e0fca03f0a.jpg

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mozzy Sails said:

Excited to see these next iterations break cover!

Seems to raise more questions than answered at the moment! Oh well, all will be revealed "soon".

Thought bubble: "Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we..."

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

They most certainly are protecting something on the bottom of the hull.  It almost looks like it is flat and comes to a point at the back.  Of course, the could just be the protective packaging or just a disguise.     or the rudder.  the cradle has a gap in it

 2136473380_UKB23.thumb.jpg.d3651fd79b45cf1e94c25e5bf61e76c6.jpg

970828187_UKB21.thumb.jpg.f62dbc844c09574208000a20cf04145b.jpg1634619069_UKB22.thumb.jpg.28bc22d3023c874c667333e0fca03f0a.jpg

 

 

The Holroyd Hula returns...

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6 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

I would've thought they would want the windward skin to be flatter, to create a greater pressure differential - more like the solid wings.

The skins (sides) of the solid wings were symmetrical obviously so not sure what comparison you are getting at - 'windward skin flatter'... 'like a solid wing'.

Do you think the 'huge camber' noted above is really any greater overall than the angle between the two solid wing sections was typically?

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13 minutes ago, nav said:

The skins (sides) of the solid wings were symmetrical obviously so not sure what comparison you are getting at - 'windward skin flatter'... 'like a solid wing'.

Yes, the windward side is flatter, even though the skins are identical, by tightening the outhaul more than on the leeward side.

image.png.d6c8fdff176fdc4599f9ddaf9387ed7d.png

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4 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

Yes, the windward side is flatter, even though the skins are identical, by tightening the outhaul more than on the leeward side.

image.png.d6c8fdff176fdc4599f9ddaf9387ed7d.png

Yeah have a look at the Spark ETNZ experience video if you go. You have a close up of the back end of the boom which shows how the out haul is manipulated. Definitely an advantage in comparison to the way LR and INEOS allow the windward and lee ward skins to mimic each other. There is a reason aerofoils went from the Bleriot foil at the start of WW1 to the Clark Y by the end. 

601B0178-CD85-4E96-BA06-1F863369DB53.png

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15 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

Yes, the windward side is flatter, even though the skins are identical, by tightening the outhaul more than on the leeward side.

image.png.d6c8fdff176fdc4599f9ddaf9387ed7d.png

Sorry you are all over the place. You suggested there was a difference in the 'sides' of the AC solid wings earlier. That is not what is shown in this concept ^ AFAIK

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6 minutes ago, nav said:

Sorry you are all over the place. You suggested there was a difference in the 'sides' of the solid wings earlier.

No, I don't think I said there was any diff in the skins of a solid wing.  But whatever.

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19 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

They most certainly are protecting something on the bottom of the hull.  It almost looks like it is flat and comes to a point at the back.  Of course, the could just be the protective packaging or just a disguise.     or the rudder.  the cradle has a gap in it

 2136473380_UKB23.thumb.jpg.d3651fd79b45cf1e94c25e5bf61e76c6.jpg

970828187_UKB21.thumb.jpg.f62dbc844c09574208000a20cf04145b.jpg1634619069_UKB22.thumb.jpg.28bc22d3023c874c667333e0fca03f0a.jpg

 

 

They’re just going for an IOR throwback look!

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13 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Crew lunch order?

:)

Yes, hard to tell what the numbers mean. Pressure levels in various systems? 
 

If anyone wants to take time for doing it, that recent video of the Spark 5G Simulator included what they must consider the ‘key’ readouts on the sim screen, could be fun to figure what they are. One was clearly a measure of lift off the foil, very cool. 

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59 minutes ago, Boybland said:

Oh it's just a character sheet for a level 17 fighter.

I thought it was a cricket score. As in, RRR: 7.6.

Must have been the Black Caps playing, mind.

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18 hours ago, Monkey said:

They’re just going for an IOR throwback look!

Ahhh the good old days...  1/2 tonners with wire sheets, guys and halyards. Down wind death rolls, up wind bashing through waves, hiking 24/7, all to get double figures on the log if you were lucky.

Young guns these days, bunch of woosies....

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3 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Who will hit the water 1st with their B2..? Will it be the Kiwis.? Or will it be AM's Patriot who have already shelved Defiant.? Or Ineos? 

I'll bite.

AM...young,....

And something to prove. And boat 1 shelved, supposedly.

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3 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Who will hit the water 1st with their B2..? Will it be the Kiwis.? Or will it be AM's Patriot who have already shelved Defiant.? Or Ineos? 

AM for sure.  They made a big point of "pre-launching" B-1 so they could be the first sailing foiling, etc...

LR and UK are way behind because the hulls just landed.  NZ want to be sneaky about it and AM has already started to cannibalize part off of B1.  

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9 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Who will hit the water 1st with their B2..? Will it be the Kiwis.? Or will it be AM's Patriot who have already shelved Defiant.? Or Ineos? 

My estimate.

AM 12th

INEOS 15th

LR 20th

ETZ start of nov.

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On 10/6/2020 at 7:54 AM, I ride bikes said:

Been fortunate enough to chat to some kinda important guys from AM and LR. 

 

Rita v2.0 sounds more out there than the first one.  

Lovely Rita,

Lovely Rita, meter maid
Nothing can come between us
When it gets dark I tow your heart away
Standing by a parking meter.

Ah------, ah - ah, Ah ---------! Rita!

Good productions are made in the UK.
Hope they break through
.

 

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On 10/6/2020 at 9:29 PM, JALhazmat said:

HB front treatment, still raised sides that taper at the rear, bustle/spine that tapers to the rear but hard edged rather than soft 

I for one am looking forward forward towards the launch of B2.  I’ll be cheering for them big time, I truely hope they win the Prada cup. There’s so much design talent in the UK,  nearly all the F1 teams are based there. 

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On 10/4/2020 at 7:24 AM, terrafirma said:

Who will hit the water 1st with their B2..? Will it be the Kiwis.? Or will it be AM's Patriot who have already shelved Defiant.? Or Ineos? 

Stepping a rig on a new boat is a necessity prior to first splash down isn’t it?  I guess ETNZ could splash their B2 without stepping the mast to make sure it floats.  Anyway, I think AM is in the lead. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

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Above a certain windspeed, we might find that all the boats quickly hit the 50 knots limit from the foils cavitating. 

This might give us some very competitive racing with all the boats travelling at the same speed.  I wonder how many years before the boats are equipped with super cavitating hydrofoils. 

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6 hours ago, porous_morris said:

 

who's going to spot the massive error first....

There are so many massive errors in that piece, it's hard to pick just one. Maybe it's not just politicians, journalists and real estate agents, who need to be fact checked?

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1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

There are so many massive errors in that piece, it's hard to pick just one. Maybe it's not just politicians, journalists and real estate agents, who need to be fact checked?

The Mercedes team Jim Ratcliffe hired for engineering is undefeated since 2014 in formula 1 car racing.
Nevertheless, naval engineering isn't car racing... Sit back and hold your breath.

 

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1 hour ago, rh3000 said:

B2?

Inverse bow and tapered sides aft appear to match what we can saw in the antonov shots.

1752342146_ScreenShot2020-10-09at6_28_28AM.thumb.png.9e7a9f000fad6ae38a3cd1061eba6d9a.png

I vaguely recall seeing this same boat in videos since B1's launch, I had the feeling it was an early design they just use in promo since it doesn't have the central endplate and has all crew on each side, it seemed all the teams settled for the grinders staying mostly in place. 

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45 minutes ago, Schakel said:

The Mercedes team Jim Ratcliffe hired for engineering is undefeated since 2014 in formula 1 car racing.
Nevertheless, naval engineering isn't car racing... Sit back and hold your breath.

 

Yeah but the effort of 15 or so Merc engineers assigned to Ineos specialising in things like aero, hydraulics, composite materials and simulation engineering etc  are 100% transferable to marine applications like this. 

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18 minutes ago, ed__miller said:

Yeah but the effort of 15 or so Merc engineers assigned to Ineos specialising in things like aero, hydraulics, composite materials and simulation engineering etc  are 100% transferable to marine applications like this. 

There is much to be gained in regulation technology,
Can I oppose this that E-boats and electronics killes the sport in America's cup?
I like the proposed Te Kahu,
1287817241_TeKahu2.thumb.jpg.98efa248ad3909af1b387b7c9d05bb3d.jpg

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3 hours ago, rh3000 said:

B2?

Inverse bow and tapered sides aft appear to match what we can saw in the antonov shots.

1752342146_ScreenShot2020-10-09at6_28_28AM.thumb.png.9e7a9f000fad6ae38a3cd1061eba6d9a.png

Potentially,

grinding positions are changed too. Early on after Rita was launched there were CFD shots of the grinders positioned as above, so was it the intention all along? 
 

helm is further forward and crew trench is more compact in the above render.. not long now 

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1 hour ago, ed__miller said:

Yeah but the effort of 15 or so Merc engineers assigned to Ineos specialising in things like aero, hydraulics, composite materials and simulation engineering etc  are 100% transferable to marine applications like this. 

History has shown time and time again that too heavy a reliance on this assumption sits at the feet of many of the failed AC syndicates...

 

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31 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

History has shown time and time again that too heavy a reliance on this assumption sits at the feet of many of the failed AC syndicates...

 

True. But was it the aerospace engineers that fucked up For oracle or was it the poor decisions of the naval architects designing the foils... Let’s be honest the use of these outside partners are not to teach the boat designers how to do their jobs.., they will be used for their much higher real world expertise in the mechanisms of hydraulic systems,  aero drag reduction and simulation computing etc. I am certain they will have lots of lessons learned in how to apply the technology for the required applications. Why reinvent the wheel? 

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4 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Did anyone else notice that early on (1st minute) Ben said the boats go over 50kts - 65mph

Well 60mph is over 50kts, 65mph is over 55kts. A mistake or the sort of speeds we are likely to see?

He was talking about foiling boats generally at that point so could be referencing the F50 which he has also raced. However, I'd be pretty surprised if we don't see speeds over 50knts in AC36. 55knts would be pretty crazy but I'm not ruling anything out!

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2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Potentially,

grinding positions are changed too. Early on after Rita was launched there were CFD shots of the grinders positioned as above, so was it the intention all along? 
 

helm is further forward and crew trench is more compact in the above render.. not long now 

The leading edge of the soft wing looks very far to starboard.

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5 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Did anyone else notice that early on (1st minute) Ben said the boats go over 50kts - 65mph

Well 60mph is over 50kts, 65mph is over 55kts. A mistake or the sort of speeds we are likely to see?

Noticed that too.

We are likely looking at supercavition by the time the CSS happens. 

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Although they are fun to talk about, my position is that supercavitating foils do not have a chance this cycle. 

Any "improved supercavitating foil" would certainly need lots of real world development,  With the testing limitations this round, your only ability to do real development would be via your test boat.  My hat would be off to any team that pulls off a big secret supercavitating foil testing campaign this cycle.

As far as I have seen, the fanciest concept thrown out still has a big increase in drag and reduction in lift compared to traditional foils.  

With near minimum wind, any step down in foil performance would eliminate any hope of dry tacks and splashdown recovery would be painful.  Remember that you are not changing foils to suit the forecast.

As it is, I am betting that the loss in VMG due to the cavitation limit for upwind & downwind legs is minimal.  As you approach cavitation you can just point higher on upwind legs and lower on downwind legs.

Stinger, go back to your Bermuda data.  What were peak SOG values on upwind & downwind legs compared to what they did when reaching.  

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