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shes legit ... foil arm looks to be in the front end of the box ... opposite of all other teams ... what are we going to read into that?

ETNZ are probably favorites .....but win or lose....Team New Zealand have firmly established themselves as the all time great AC nation in the modern era.   From the time they first emerged, they have

Slowly working through yesterday's lot

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20 minutes ago, trt131 said:

Not the way the discipline is raced world wide.  Different pre-start, different course, changed a number of rules in Appendix C

Fair enough. But you don't think B&T wouldn't eat that Shit up as well? They've gone 49, moth, cat, and now the current monster. All apparent wind tho, as you say. 

They do seem to win in apparent wind boats.

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49 minutes ago, trt131 said:

Nope smaller more agile boats, check out whats happening in the match racing scene world wide.

Yeah, nah. I'll pass on the 7 knot shitters thanks.

WMRT_201030_IR_2906LR-1024x683.jpg

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1 minute ago, winchfodder said:

Well it could be if they decided to join in the fun!

They are. They are enjoying the shore facilities and buffet.  It is called sandbagging, they are so far the best at it which bodes well for a surprise win.  My cat likes them. My dog thinks they are fast and have some of the best going along side techniques. 

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11 minutes ago, dullers said:

They are. They are enjoying the shore facilities and buffet.  It is called sandbagging, they are so far the best at it which bodes well for a surprise win.  My cat likes them. My dog thinks they are fast and have some of the best going along side techniques. 

Yeah! Great time of the year to take a circus and all the families to NZ for an extended holiday. Just hoping that they might get to grips with the task in hand. 

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2 hours ago, winchfodder said:

Yeah! Great time of the year to take a circus and all the families to NZ for an extended holiday. Just hoping that they might get to grips with the task in hand. 

I heard the tea making facilities broke on INEOS.

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9 minutes ago, dullers said:

Replacement on the way from Stafford England

Screenshot (1689).png

Can't believe the great British challenge is turning out the joker again when they haven't even completed a "practice" race. 

The team PR need to address the issues. The last press release/video was claiming how many miles sailed and tracks and gybed completed whilst in NZ, then two days of racing on offer and no shows. Makes the press release look like a joke.

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1 minute ago, winchfodder said:

Can't believe the great British challenge is turning out the joker again when they haven't even completed a "practice" race. 

The team PR need to address the issues. The last press release/video was claiming how many miles sailed and tracks and gybed completed whilst in NZ, then two days of racing on offer and no shows. Makes the press release look like a joke.

I have yet to see your tea pot. Was AM not in the garage getting the waffle machine adjusted?

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5 minutes ago, dullers said:

I have yet to see your tea pot. Was AM not in the garage getting the waffle machine adjusted?

That's British humour, better to make a joke of it than to cry about it...

If there commissioning and flying an Antonov out from the UK, they have some serious spare parts / Upgraded parts that they need to get to New Zealand in a rush. 

I'm sure even the New Zealands on here should hope that it fixes the boat, there is no glory in beating a crew on broken boat. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Don't mention the ....

luber-novelty-teapot-designed-roy_360_b5d3ecef784321636d0a2e65ac9d2fbb.jpg

Who would have thought that in 2020 rivets would be back in.  Best bow sprit of all the contenders.  Is it a fast pourer or a slow poor like INEOS?  I note Prada and Team middle east are too scared to show their tea pots. Sand bagging I suspect.

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5 minutes ago, Laurence said:

That's British humour, better to make a joke of it than to cry about it...

If there commissioning and flying an Antonov out from the UK, they have some serious spare parts / Upgraded parts that they need to get to New Zealand in a rush. 

I'm sure even the New Zealands on here should hope that it fixes the boat, there is no glory in beating a crew on broken boat. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

According to the Deed of Gift and the race rules only 2 tea pots per team. So if INEOS break this one they are out.

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6 hours ago, dullers said:

Who would have thought that in 2020 rivets would be back in.  Best bow sprit of all the contenders.  Is it a fast pourer or a slow poor like INEOS?  I note Prada and Team middle east are too scared to show their tea pots. Sand bagging I suspect.

Our teapot in stealth mode...338675598_ETNZteapot.jpg.bfe634b207b674674cb9281e5a5fe761.jpg

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Oh dear! That's blown it!

Magnus has put the boot in his own team.

 

"

Well, imagine how you’d feel if you’d just blown £120 million of someone else’s money and have an absolutely balls-out racing machine laden with some of the best sailors on the planet, a supercomputer or two to measure a billion points of data a day, and you’re still way off the pace.

The first time you take it to a racecourse, it breaks. You then scuttle back to base, close the doors and silently weep. The management are all at each other’s throats and the billionaire owner is breathing, heavily, down your neck. You don’t even have a blonde in the bar to chase. It’s depressing.

Well that’s what’s happening in New Zealand right now with Ratty’s Rita (owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe’s INEOS TEAM UK boat, Britannia), looking like the lamest of lame ducks and the rest of the fleet and commentators dumbfounded as to where it has all gone wrong.

It’s dark times as they scratch their heads over the speed conundrum they face and I’m hearing the first rumblings of discord in the team with morale at rock bottom. To be honest those rumours have been around since the start and the take-over of BAR way back when.

There are some dark characters at work in this team unafraid to throw colleagues under the bus and shift the blame relentlessly but something has gone terribly wrong and the clock is ticking. They didn’t compete in the first tune-ups and were resolutely in the shed today trying to fix issues with the mast but it’s their on-the-water performances whilst tuning up that have set the alarm bells ringing.

Team Ineos sail the boat differently to the others – and some would say they are stuck in a set of procedures that other teams moved on from some time ago. And they are slow. Possibly not even at the pace of American Magic and a million miles from Team New Zealand and Prada.

It’s a familiar story being played out – the only difference is that this time, they really should have no excuses. I fear that the team is being swamped by internal politics, as is so often the case with British challengers, and that the big voices in the team have railroaded rather than collaborated.

The pressure being exerted from the sponsors will, I imagine, be pretty unbearable. Far from the cuddly image he likes to portray, Ratty and his machine are hard-ball players. You don’t get to be one of the world’s richest men by being a nice guy and he is surrounded by hard-as-nails goons who will be asking serious questions. This is not a nice place to be for Ben (skipper Ben Ainslie) and the sailors. Not nice at all.

December 18th could be a horrible day for Team Ineos. Two races against Team New Zealand – the All Blacks of yachting – who will take no prisoners. They are a ruthless killing machine as evidenced in their cruise to victory over Team Prada. To get anywhere close to their level will be nigh on impossible not just for Team Ineos but for the rest of the Challengers.

The Kiwis look like they have speed to burn all around the course and remember they will be sandbagging, easing off the throttle at every opportunity. The only unknown for TNZ is Ineos but I don’t see any cause for concern from the defender. They are up for the challenge and remember, when you have a fast boat, you become a tactical genius.

Hard times for the Brits. Hard times."

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6 hours ago, Laurence said:

That's British humour, better to make a joke of it than to cry about it...

If there commissioning and flying an Antonov out from the UK, they have some serious spare parts / Upgraded parts that they need to get to New Zealand in a rush. 

I'm sure even the New Zealands on here should hope that it fixes the boat, there is no glory in beating a crew on broken boat. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Says who???

I for one having had the gutwrenching sight of watching the yankeedoodles come back from 8-1 down to beat ETNZ couldnt care less if we sail against some bathtubs.

If your good enough to win so be it!

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6 hours ago, Laurence said:

I'm sure even the New Zealands on here should hope that it fixes the boat, there is no glory in beating a crew on broken boat. 

But it's good fun giving a horizon job to a broken crew on a slow boat.

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30 minutes ago, Adair said:

'Magnus has put the boot in his own team.'

It'll be interesting to see if this is a major psy-ops play by the Brits, but then again maybe not.

either way it's all part of the AC style.

Sadly for BA Magnus is probably on the money as it sounds like he has some spies in the INEOS camp. Poor BA has had no luck with choosing designers, Claughton and Co stuffed him last time with BAR and this is looking no better (although a far greater design challenge than the Bermuda cats which were almost pedestrian in comparison).

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40 minutes ago, Adair said:

It'll be interesting to see if this is a major psy-ops play by the Brits, but then again maybe not.

either way it's all part of the AC style.

"psy-ops"??This is just soooo 'merican!!:lol:

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12 minutes ago, KingMonkey said:

I have no idea whether ITUK is shit, I am very clear that Magnus has no idea whether they are shit either. It just looks like he has read some of the pro-kiwi press and got a bit mouthier.

Isn't this all part of the fun??:P

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9 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Given that the team that he thinks are at each other’s throats and at their wits end were  having a kick about with Dan Carter two days ago I think he might be overstepping his journalistic instincts.. 

Exactly, everything needs increasingly bigger headlines to grab the attention.

Let the shit slinging begin:lol:

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5 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

You can see how angry and upset they all are with each other, the obvious splits in the camp etc..

what you can’t see is Magnus.. because he isn’t anywhere near the team. 

FC484523-E106-4E36-8BB2-E48FBCA80172.jpeg

6FF50204-D70D-4974-A2C4-6573A8A8B3E0.jpeg

Well it's not like they can go sailing.

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2 hours ago, Lat35sowth said:

Says who???

I for one having had the gutwrenching sight of watching the yankeedoodles come back from 8-1 down to beat ETNZ couldnt care less if we sail against some bathtubs.

If your good enough to win so be it!

Yes but the Middle East team was sandbagging for the last 8 races in SF.

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2 hours ago, winchfodder said:

Oh dear! That's blown it!

Magnus has put the boot in his own team.

 

"

Well, imagine how you’d feel if you’d just blown £120 million of someone else’s money and have an absolutely balls-out racing machine laden with some of the best sailors on the planet, a supercomputer or two to measure a billion points of data a day, and you’re still way off the pace.

The first time you take it to a racecourse, it breaks. You then scuttle back to base, close the doors and silently weep. The management are all at each other’s throats and the billionaire owner is breathing, heavily, down your neck. You don’t even have a blonde in the bar to chase. It’s depressing.

Well that’s what’s happening in New Zealand right now with Ratty’s Rita (owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe’s INEOS TEAM UK boat, Britannia), looking like the lamest of lame ducks and the rest of the fleet and commentators dumbfounded as to where it has all gone wrong.

It’s dark times as they scratch their heads over the speed conundrum they face and I’m hearing the first rumblings of discord in the team with morale at rock bottom. To be honest those rumours have been around since the start and the take-over of BAR way back when.

There are some dark characters at work in this team unafraid to throw colleagues under the bus and shift the blame relentlessly but something has gone terribly wrong and the clock is ticking. They didn’t compete in the first tune-ups and were resolutely in the shed today trying to fix issues with the mast but it’s their on-the-water performances whilst tuning up that have set the alarm bells ringing.

Team Ineos sail the boat differently to the others – and some would say they are stuck in a set of procedures that other teams moved on from some time ago. And they are slow. Possibly not even at the pace of American Magic and a million miles from Team New Zealand and Prada.

It’s a familiar story being played out – the only difference is that this time, they really should have no excuses. I fear that the team is being swamped by internal politics, as is so often the case with British challengers, and that the big voices in the team have railroaded rather than collaborated.

The pressure being exerted from the sponsors will, I imagine, be pretty unbearable. Far from the cuddly image he likes to portray, Ratty and his machine are hard-ball players. You don’t get to be one of the world’s richest men by being a nice guy and he is surrounded by hard-as-nails goons who will be asking serious questions. This is not a nice place to be for Ben (skipper Ben Ainslie) and the sailors. Not nice at all.

December 18th could be a horrible day for Team Ineos. Two races against Team New Zealand – the All Blacks of yachting – who will take no prisoners. They are a ruthless killing machine as evidenced in their cruise to victory over Team Prada. To get anywhere close to their level will be nigh on impossible not just for Team Ineos but for the rest of the Challengers.

The Kiwis look like they have speed to burn all around the course and remember they will be sandbagging, easing off the throttle at every opportunity. The only unknown for TNZ is Ineos but I don’t see any cause for concern from the defender. They are up for the challenge and remember, when you have a fast boat, you become a tactical genius.

Hard times for the Brits. Hard times."

Magnus is a blogger ffs.

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2 minutes ago, FinnFish said:

Personally I like how the frackers did one speed run three days ago, and then put it back in the shed. Ultimate confidence.

Frackers? I no speaky the lingo...

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12 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

You can see how angry and upset they all are with each other, the obvious splits in the camp etc..

what you can’t see is Magnus.. because he isn’t anywhere near the team. 

FC484523-E106-4E36-8BB2-E48FBCA80172.jpeg

6FF50204-D70D-4974-A2C4-6573A8A8B3E0.jpeg

Envy them so much, able to muck around and have fun at Eden Park, may be they can teach the ABs a thing or two.

But......... I don't think they will bring the Cup back to UK by playing touch.

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1 hour ago, fish7yu said:

Envy them so much, able to muck around and have fun at Eden Park, may be they can teach the ABs a thing or two.

But......... I don't think they will bring the Cup back to UK by playing touch.

That is the sort of insight  we need around here. 

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2 hours ago, dullers said:

That is the sort of insight  we need around here. 

You've clearly got butt hurt syndrome since the frackers put Rita back in the shed 3 days ago to fix that broken halyard. Do you think Rita is going under the knife, or is someone sharpening the chainsaw?

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https://www.sail-world.com/news/233782/Americas-Cup-Rialto-Dec-11--Kiwis-race-alone

Gladwell’s bit on the racing is as pro-Kiwi as ever but highlights the usual shenanigans that are happening. I guess the Kiwis - and I repeat that like everyone else I have no idea whose boat is fastest - have a bit less time on the water than everyone else so these days are not a big deal for the challengers. 
 

Otherwise ITUK has a VERY broken halyard and got Dan Carter out real quick for a kickabout. 

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9 hours ago, dullers said:

Frackers? I no speaky the lingo...

ITUK are sponsored by a man whose moral character is not very hard to call into question including his support for shale gas exploration in the U.K. and offshore tax status. Depending on your political viewpoint the fact that he is a brexiteer can either be a compliment or an insult. 

The Al Makhtoum family that own Emirates and sponsor ETNZ, by contrast, never have their character questioned on these pages and for good reason. In this case they are a family of outstanding moral fibre who never contribute anything to global warming through oil or the largest fleet of A380s in the world and who never kidnap and drug their daughters if they try to escape UAE.

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45 minutes ago, KingMonkey said:

https://www.sail-world.com/news/233782/Americas-Cup-Rialto-Dec-11--Kiwis-race-alone

Gladwell’s bit on the racing is as pro-Kiwi as ever but highlights the usual shenanigans that are happening. I guess the Kiwis - and I repeat that like everyone else I have no idea whose boat is fastest - have a bit less time on the water than everyone else so these days are not a big deal for the challengers. 
 

Otherwise ITUK has a VERY broken halyard and got Dan Carter out real quick for a kickabout. 

If the team was in full melt down as that blog entry suggests you aren’t going for jollies with DC

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6 hours ago, FinnFish said:

You've clearly got butt hurt syndrome since the frackers put Rita back in the shed 3 days ago to fix that broken halyard. Do you think Rita is going under the knife, or is someone sharpening the chainsaw?

Seems they have all got broken halyards now.

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1 hour ago, KingMonkey said:

ITUK are sponsored by a man whose moral character is not very hard to call into question including his support for shale gas exploration in the U.K. and offshore tax status. Depending on your political viewpoint the fact that he is a brexiteer can either be a compliment or an insult. 

The Al Makhtoum family that own Emirates and sponsor ETNZ, by contrast, never have their character questioned on these pages and for good reason. In this case they are a family of outstanding moral fibre who never contribute anything to global warming through oil or the largest fleet of A380s in the world and who never kidnap and drug their daughters if they try to escape UAE.

I live in the UK and I know we are a dodgy country but I do love it so. Thanks for the explanation.  Team middle East will be hard to beat.

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16 minutes ago, dullers said:

I live in the UK and I know we are a dodgy country but I do love it so. Thanks for the explanation.  Team middle East will be hard to beat.

It's been fun boys - off to bed (early morning tee time)...:)

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20 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Tough time for Ben?

Suzanne Macfaden quoted Ben as saying that if you are not fast now you are in big trouble plus Magnus on The Ehman show tonight so might reveal some of his inside sources of information in the INEOS camp. 

Will he fuck. 
saying his mates on the boat are gonna be telling him about it.

you don’t knife your mates like he has and then keep em as friends 

come with proof/statements from the team or fuck off. 
 

ehman isn’t much better either 

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Magnus has another blog post up - 

 

White Ensign

We can expect to hear a load of commentators and sailors saying “it’s not over until it’s over” and “we’ll just keep on fighting” or “we’re taking every day as it comes” or words to that effect in the next few weeks. Believe me, it’s nonsense. That’s like the Alfa Romeo team in Formula 1 saying they will be challenging Mercedes. Claptrap. The die is set way before we get to the racing. This is the end of the cycle, not the beginning. In just a few short months time, we will have a winner and that winner will be Team New Zealand. No question. Easiest victory since Russ aced the Hula. And bear in mind, we haven’t even seen the best of Team New Zealand yet. They are winning by 30 seconds to over a minute at cruise pace. They are higher and faster upwind, and lower and faster downwind. You can’t get close to these guys and the ‘TEAM’ is rock solid. It’s what has impressed me most, they look like a team, they act like a team, they win like a team. They are a machine. An awesome killing machine.

Are they beatable? Well yes but you’ve got to be on your ‘A’ game and we are all reminded of San Francisco when the Kiwis had Oracle on the rack but then stupidly gave them a lay day. Ben came onboard, Fresh found out how to foil upwind and one of the greatest comebacks ever in sport, happened. I still don’t know the full story of that victory. There’s a code of Omerta around it but Larry won and it’s in the history books now.

For sure, that lay day was a mistake by Grant Dalton and a huge, painful lesson that has been well-learned. The defeat hurt so much. They won’t be making the same mistake again. The fact that they came back from that loss is huge testament to the Kiwi team spirit. It’s a trait they show in all the sports they selectively compete in and in the America’s Cup, just like in rugby, they are very very good at the game. Team NZ is a credit to their flag and come 2021, they will be very deserving of all the plaudits they receive – most likely (and unfortunately) at a safe social distance when really there should be the mother of all parties in Auckland.

yysw287626.jpg?w=800

For the challengers, we have the rather boring torture of the next couple of months – (anyone else already getting bored by the racing?). It’s the hope that kills. There will be a winner from the challenger pack – my money’s on Spithill through gritted teeth – but whoever aces the series is in fool’s gold territory if they think they are going to wrest the Cup this time from the Kiwis.

Spithill is mercurial and I can’t for the life of me understand why Team Ineos didn’t hire him as support for Ben. He’s the kind of guy that hauls boats round racecourses through sheer will and determination. Sailors want to sail for him. Owners realise that what you see is what you get and he’s damned competitive. Ben and Jimmy had something going in San Francisco and with a money-no-object campaign, he could have been an easy signing and would have taken the considerable pressure off Ben’s shoulders. With Prada, Jimmy is in in full ass-hauling mode and there’s an edge to the Italians that we haven’t seen for a while. Pre-start they look on the money – and that’s Jimmy. Upwind they look like they can hang on. Downwind they are Christmas turkeys, ripe for roasting on a Kiwi barbie. Team New Zealand will gobble them up.

The Americans meanwhile are a pound short and a penny late. By far the most accessible and almost certainly the nicest team in this cycle, they will show flashes of brilliance as Terry Hutchinson is no mug but I have always wondered whether Dean Barker can really hack it under pressure. I used to unfairly call him ‘Bottler Barker’ as for sure there’s a mental fragility right at the crucial moment and unfortunately the team know that. They can smell it on the water and that’s the problem right there. Belief – it’s so hard to win and is lost in a nano-second only to permeate down through an organisation at rapier-like pace.

Team Ineos is in the cut-the-boat up stage of crisis. They have the resources to gamble big but it’s desperation now. They know they are on the back-foot and despite having a guy who is at his very very best when the chips are down, I come back to the notion that this is the end of the cycle, not the beginning and time is short. Finding speed is going to be very hard. Finding consistent speed, wrapped up in an overall team package that can challenge the Kiwis is nigh on impossible. I’m not saying it can’t be done but the warning signs are there and I just fear we are about to see a horrible death spiral unfold in front of our eyes and I will spend the next two years hearing the inside story from mates on the team going: “it was a bloody joke, we never had a chance.”

The white ensign is flying over Team Ineos. The white flag is being raised by the challengers. They didn’t even go on the water today for their summary beating by the Kiwis. Team New Zealand will defend the Cup. Put your house on it.

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Perfect Magnus!

Sadly I feel he is right on the money (and of course the old chestnut that Oracle possibly found a way of automating their foiling in SF without the measurer checking - maybe he will call out TE on that one tonight) so it is a question now on who goes home first at the beginning of February and whether their "owners" will be sending the circus home straight away (even if the extended travelling baggage complain about taking their children out of school!)

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It’s the claim of mates on the team while doing them In The back that I find utterly repulsive. 
 

there are probably very good reasons he hasn’t been let in on the Oracle events in San Fran, he’s a bit of a cunt. 

On the 7th he is all cool with ineos, on the 10th he writes his shit piece, the 11th doubles down, then he is on Tom Ehman.. self promotion much? 

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I don't see Ineos chopping their boat up. Even though they've used up all their foils, they can still make 25% changes - so that's a distinct possibility. Shave some area off and go for a smaller high speed foil. It's a gamble, but they've got bugger all to lose. Other areas where they can make improvements is in their sails - specifically the main and its control system. Re-engineering that is another possibility. Big gains can be made if they get that right.

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In that blog he is not claiming that he has inside info from team GB

Quote

 I just fear we are about to see a horrible death spiral unfold in front of our eyes and I will spend the next two years hearing the inside story from mates 

"I just fear"

"I will spend"

 

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19 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

In that blog he is not claiming that he has inside info from team GB

"I just fear"

"I will spend"

 

He is claiming that he has friends on the team and that they will tell him...

you don’t write what he has about friends.

gutter blogging at its finest. 

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22 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

I don't see Ineos chopping their boat up. Even though they've used up all their foils, they can still make 25% changes - so that's a distinct possibility. Shave some area off and go for a smaller high speed foil. It's a gamble, but they've got bugger all to lose. Other areas where they can make improvements is in their sails - specifically the main and its control system. Re-engineering that is another possibility. Big gains can be made if they get that right.

Weta/Mike etc both have said that the one thing ineos looks, ISN'T slow

 

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5 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Weta/Mike etc both have said that the one thing ineos looks, ISN'T slow

All these boats up on the foils look quick. If they weren't doing some significant tinkering you'd think they would've been out on the course. Hard to think a halyard issue has kept them in the shed for 3 days. Who knows? Will be interesting to see if they take part in next weeks practice. If they don't come out, it's only going to fuel speculation.

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Until we see the boat again... (and apologies if this has already been posted):

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/dec/08/ineos-boss-opts-to-build-british-heir-to-land-rover-defender-in-france

"Vocal Brexiter Sir Jim Ratcliffe vowed to make new Grenadier 4x4 in Bridgend but has now bought car plant at Hambach"

Good for Hambach :).

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19 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

You can see how angry and upset they all are with each other, the obvious splits in the camp etc..

what you can’t see is Magnus.. because he isn’t anywhere near the team. 

FC484523-E106-4E36-8BB2-E48FBCA80172.jpeg

6FF50204-D70D-4974-A2C4-6573A8A8B3E0.jpeg

Must be nice to be relaxing shore side while your competitors are on the race course mixing it up, seems like they are relieved not to be getting their asses kicked on the water.  WTF?

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