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On 12/12/2020 at 7:04 PM, XPRO said:

Someone should remind Tony that even the worlds leading F1 team can fuck up and put a mixed set of tires on two different cars (against the rules), do two extra pit stops when it counts and pooch a perfect strategy when you led all day - that is why we race. Oh , Ineos all but had the entire team drop out of the Tour De France so money can't always buy the win....

I seem to remember someone on here a few weeks ago bringing up the utter irrelevance of the Ineos team performance in le Tour. Like you, he didn't go on to mention the GC and Team wins in the following Giro d' Italia, and 2nd in GC in the Vuelta.

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shes legit ... foil arm looks to be in the front end of the box ... opposite of all other teams ... what are we going to read into that?

ETNZ are probably favorites .....but win or lose....Team New Zealand have firmly established themselves as the all time great AC nation in the modern era.   From the time they first emerged, they have

And so it begins. Image credit and copyright Allesandro Spiga  

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2 hours ago, Boybland said:

For what it's worth. I actually agree with you (although the NZ is ETNZ and we are happy with this name).

I don't mind a bit of name calling, but only when it's there for the sake of actual name calling.  Using stupid childish names when just talking about aspects of the teams in general got old a really long time ago...

But it is Anarchy, so I suspect it's unlikely to change.

It's only partly owned by De Vos. Has everyone forgotten Hap Fauth is the other owner or investor.? 

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2 hours ago, RMac said:

 

I'm from the US and will happily refer to that team as whatever I like, which right now happens to be Amwagic.  I have a bunch of friends and connections with the team, but absolutely can't stand their ownership for political, personal and sailing reasons so frankly it gives me joy to goof on their name.  The DeVos freakshow is offensive to me on many levels including their destructive politics, glaring hypocrisy (remember when they quarantined the shit out of everyone on the team while advocating for open-everything? Remember how every bit of tech on their boat that can be possibly be overseas sourced is while they advocate for America first?) and general weirdness.  The way they make their money is disgusting (pick a company) and frankly I'm even MORE annoyed at them since they are such rotten people that they've got me rooting for a foreign team instead of the ostensibly US team. 

 

 

LONG LIVE THE AMWAGIC!  (until March at least)

I absolutely agree with the repulsive nature of DeVois and what they stand for.  For me, that is why I would rather not give them any credit or association with the team.  I have accepted that fact that their money is funding the team and look at it as a better use of it than most of the other causes they have supported.  If it was a situation where they where making money off of my support, than No Fckg Way would I give them the time of day.   I know that many of you may think it is funny and by all means you can call them what ever you want.  I would just rather not give them any credit for anything the team accomplishes.  Anyway isn’t even a corporate sponsor, why give the the publicity?

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1 minute ago, The_Alchemist said:

I absolutely agree with the repulsive nature of DeVois and what they stand for.  For me, that is why I would rather not give them any credit or association with the team.  I have accepted that fact that their money is funding the team and look at it as a better use of it than most of the other causes they have supported.  If it was a situation where they where making money off of my support, than No Fckg Way would I give them the time of day.   I know that many of you may think it is funny and by all means you can call them what ever you want.  I would just rather not give them any credit for anything the team accomplishes.  Anyway isn’t even a corporate sponsor, why give the the publicity?

The thing is all 4 of the entrants have shitty owners and people running them. Prada is probably the cleanest. 

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17 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

The thing is all 4 of the entrants have shitty owners and people running them. Prada is probably the cleanest. 

Its incredibly rare for someone to amass that sort of wealth and be a decent sort of human being and yeah, of all the Billionaires Bertelli does seem the cleanest by far (at a cursory glance at least).

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1 minute ago, jaysper said:

Its incredibly rare for someone to amass that sort of wealth and be a decent sort of human being 

It is incredibly rare to be a decent sort of human being in general. Not rarer among billionaires or paupers. Paupers, however, don't have internet idiots examining every detail of their lives.

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27 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

I absolutely agree with the repulsive nature of DeVois and what they stand for.  For me, that is why I would rather not give them any credit or association with the team.  I have accepted that fact that their money is funding the team and look at it as a better use of it than most of the other causes they have supported.  If it was a situation where they where making money off of my support, than No Fckg Way would I give them the time of day.   I know that many of you may think it is funny and by all means you can call them what ever you want.  I would just rather not give them any credit for anything the team accomplishes.  Anyway isn’t even a corporate sponsor, why give the the 

 

 

Betsy DeVos: the billionaire Republican destroying public education

Cuts, attacks, rollbacks – the education secretary’s campaign to dismantle America’s public system has continued unabated

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3 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

And yet, without them, NYYC wouldn't have an entry in the 36th America's Cup. Go figure.

We may never know, but I imagine that there are many NYYC members with the $$$ to fund an NYYC AC Challenge without the current sponsors of AM..

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14 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

It is incredibly rare to be a decent sort of human being in general. Not rarer among billionaires or paupers. Paupers, however, don't have internet idiots examining every detail of their lives.

Hmmm, tend to disagree.

Stats are roughly 1 in 100 people are sociopaths, with that number rising to 1 in 10 for senior management.

Dunno what the statistics are for billionaires, but I can extrapolate.

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3 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Hmmm, tend to disagree.

Stats are roughly 1 in 100 people are sociopaths, with that number rising to 1 in 10 for senior management.

Dunno what the statistics are for billionaires, but I can extrapolate.

Did you know that 61% of statistics on the Internet are made up on the spot?

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Just now, SF Woody Sailor said:

Did you know that 61% of statistics on the Internet are made up on the spot?

98% of my cat agrees.

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49 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

I absolutely agree with the repulsive nature of DeVois and what they stand for.  For me, that is why I would rather not give them any credit or association with the team.  I have accepted that fact that their money is funding the team and look at it as a better use of it than most of the other causes they have supported.  If it was a situation where they where making money off of my support, than No Fckg Way would I give them the time of day.   I know that many of you may think it is funny and by all means you can call them what ever you want.  I would just rather not give them any credit for anything the team accomplishes.  Anyway isn’t even a corporate sponsor, why give the the publicity?

You make a good point, my own feelings are different but I do respect your opinion and how you arrived at it.  No disrespect to you intended. 

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1 hour ago, mel_drew said:

I seem to remember someone on here a few weeks ago bringing up the utter irrelevance of the Ineos team performance in le Tour. Like you, he didn't go on to mention the GC and Team wins in the following Giro d' Italia, and 2nd in GC in the Vuelta.

Fair point, or the fantastic performances of Ganna (my favorite) , Tao, or Rohan, but it was not mentioned because no one knows much of the history of those races. Sky/Ineos spend multiples more for years on marginal gains , doped with TUEs and this year with a super team (benching the past hero’s/leaders) lost the big one.... The only one that counts in the public eye and to Sir Jim , just like the AC. 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, winchfodder said:

 

 

Betsy DeVos: the billionaire Republican destroying public education

Cuts, attacks, rollbacks – the education secretary’s campaign to dismantle America’s public system has continued unabated

That cunt will be gone in another month.

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Today Ineos was embarrassing. As a kiwi/Pom I’m putting my kiwi hat way and just leaving my Pom hat on. I’d thought we could do a lot better than today. In fact we were shit. A hundred and twenty million pounds spent and we were so slow it wasn’t funny. Ben might be a good helmsmen but he seems to be shit as a team leader. He needs to go and go quickly. At best he might be left to helm while  day to day control is left with a real manager. Someone from formula one would be suitable. With all the cut backs in F1 due to  budget caps being introduced plenty of skilled staff are looking for work.  At least get someone who knows how to win, which is not Ben. I just don’t understand how we can be so good at F1 and so poor at America’s cup. 
 

the boat itself is not a winner. It needs a lot of modifications, such as the deck shape, Control of the Boon, keep it or go ETNZ method and be boomless. Foils don’t seems to be working to well either.  They need to get the old boat working to keep the crew busy and rebuild RETA from top to bottom or as much as possible as the rules allow.  They have 4 weeks left to perform a miracle 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Serious question how do the Frackers make this go any faster in any wind range.

sharpen the ski keel

chop the horizontal foils off and go for in-line knife edges

she would make a fantastic ice yacht

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41 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Today Ineos was embarrassing. As a kiwi/Pom I’m putting my kiwi hat way and just leaving my Pom hat on. I’d thought we could do a lot better than today. In fact we were shit. A hundred and twenty million pounds spent and we were so slow it wasn’t funny. Ben might be a good helmsmen but he seems to be shit as a team leader. He needs to go and go quickly. At best he might be left to helm while  day to day control is left with a real manager. Someone from formula one would be suitable. With all the cut backs in F1 due to  budget caps being introduced plenty of skilled staff are looking for work.  At least get someone who knows how to win, which is not Ben. I just don’t understand how we can be so good at F1 and so poor at America’s cup. 
 

the boat itself is not a winner. It needs a lot of modifications, such as the deck shape, Control of the Boon, keep it or go ETNZ method and be boomless. Foils don’t seems to be working to well either.  They need to get the old boat working to keep the crew busy and rebuild RETA from top to bottom or as much as possible as the rules allow.  They have 4 weeks left to perform a miracle 

 

 

Looks to me they got way too much input from a design perspective and not enough from the crew sailing her.

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55 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Today Ineos was embarrassing. As a kiwi/Pom I’m putting my kiwi hat way and just leaving my Pom hat on. I’d thought we could do a lot better than today. In fact we were shit. A hundred and twenty million pounds spent and we were so slow it wasn’t funny. Ben might be a good helmsmen but he seems to be shit as a team leader. He needs to go and go quickly. At best he might be left to helm while  day to day control is left with a real manager. Someone from formula one would be suitable. With all the cut backs in F1 due to  budget caps being introduced plenty of skilled staff are looking for work.  At least get someone who knows how to win, which is not Ben. I just don’t understand how we can be so good at F1 and so poor at America’s cup. 
 

the boat itself is not a winner. It needs a lot of modifications, such as the deck shape, Control of the Boon, keep it or go ETNZ method and be boomless. Foils don’t seems to be working to well either.  They need to get the old boat working to keep the crew busy and rebuild RETA from top to bottom or as much as possible as the rules allow.  They have 4 weeks left to perform a miracle 

 

 

Guess Magnus was right after all.

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14 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

She actually has some quite good straight line speed at times, so it's all down to control systems, IMO.

Fuck I can chuck a brick more accurately and reliably faster than the Frackers efforts to date it's all a bit too erratically occasional to be solely a systems control issue.The excessive crew movement and general systems layout not to mention the hull design just don't add up to producing a slick cohesive effort.

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Maybe they should commission their B1 and use that for the Challenger series? Their B2 looks as though it’s too complex and a step too far for the crew to tame. Their B1 may at least give them a better chance at getting around the course too.

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The coverage was patchy when they showed speed but they looked just ahead of Prada upwind in raw numbers, don’t know the angle though? Downwind they had higher top speed and comparable with AM 

Poor tack and gybe angles hurt them though plus the break downs prior to the first race the steering cable during and then the battery pack shutting  down for the cant system.

it’s fixable and given a race able  boat will be way more competitive. The improvements made in BDA when arguably they were in worse shape is proof they can dig deep
 

congrats to AM though proof that no one likes one sided races. 

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1 minute ago, Forourselves said:

Maybe they should commission their B1 and use that for the Challenger series? Their B2 looks as though it’s too complex and a step too far for the crew to tame. Their B1 may at least give them a better chance at getting around the course too.

The Frackers have 3 weeks at best to turn that Holroyd Hemorrhoid around simply ain't going to happen.

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3 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Maybe they should commission their B1 and use that for the Challenger series? Their B2 looks as though it’s too complex and a step too far for the crew to tame. Their B1 may at least give them a better chance at getting around the course too.

Sailing b1 won’t get them better at B2, if you gonna lose sailing b1 and not learn anything about the new boat lose and do your learning in B2 

its a hard lesson but they will be better.

want to know what the battery/cant system issues are though,  they just get a duff set? 

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14 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Well well well Ainslie has come out and laid the blame for their dismal performance of late at Team NZ blaming the FCS for their struggles. Hes not gonna go kick the door down and punch someone in the face is he? Lol

So you want him to lie about why the foil arm was stuck? 
 

given the on board Comms you could hear on the You tube feed what the issue was  it would be pretty fucking elaborate lie the entire crew were in on otherwise. 
 

listen to it back and tell me he is making it up? Shock horror they had an issue with it, he said the battery pack shut down and that what the issues have been in the build up. 

he didn’t say “For fuck’s sake those kiwi pricks can’t design a proper FCS system and fucked us  over with a dodgy version, still At least I can blame them for the retirement and no one will have access to the audio or video feed to prove me wrong And discover the real reason” 

shit happens, his team are getting on with it


lol just read the article, looks like everyone is pretty fucked off with it not just Ben. 
 

pete going off script and offering help won’t please GD though... more corrective training will be in order.

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“Can you send us the software and how it is designed? Then we can work out what the problem is.”

Software? It moves an arm up and down, how can it possibly have a software problem?

Battery issues I would believe....

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10 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

So you want him to lie about why the foil arm was stuck? 

Crikey look at the size of the leeboards the Frackers are swinging.

Pushing this piglet into any sort of breeze would wear out grandma’s spoon.

None of the other participants looked to have issues.

yandy299263.jpg.102aad693ce3c9147a01307fdadcd248.jpg

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11 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

So you want him to lie about why the foil arm was stuck? 
 

given the on board Comms you could hear on the You tube feed what the issue was  it would be pretty fucking elaborate lie the entire crew were in on otherwise. 
 

listen to it back and tell me he is making it up? Shock horror they had an issue with it, he said the battery pack shut down and that what the issues have been in the build up. 

he didn’t say “For fuck’s sake those kiwi pricks can’t design a proper FCS system and fucked us  over with a dodgy version, still At least I can blame them for the retirement and no one will have access to the audio or video feed to prove me wrong And discover the real reason” 

shit happens, his team are getting on with it


lol just read the article, looks like everyone is pretty fucked off with it not just Ben. 
 

pete going off script and offering help won’t please GD though... more corrective training will be in order.

Funny in the post race press conference when Pete was asked his first question about the last race, his body language was classic, like he was thinking to himself... “listen to this fucking clown blaming everyone but himself... little bitch I’m gonna whoop your ass tomorrow boy” lol then was like oh what? Is this question for me? Shit where’s the mic? Lol

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33 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Well well well Ainslie has come out and laid the blame for their dismal performance of late at Team NZ blaming the FCS for their struggles. Hes not gonna go kick the door down and punch someone in the face is he? Lol

FFS He’s got 120 million pounds and he can’t get a swing arm to work.  It’s too complicated for them. How complicated can it be to get a swing arm to go down or up. Ben needs to go and go quick. 

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1 minute ago, mako23 said:

FFS He’s got 120 million pounds and he can’t get a swing arm to work.  It’s too complicated for them. How complicated can it be to get a swing arm to go down or up. Ben needs to go and go quick. 

Maybe the labelled the button wrong like initiate inclination raise procedure instead of up/ down and Ben got confused lol

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14 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Funny in the post race press conference when Pete was asked his first question about the last race, his body language was classic, like he was thinking to himself... “listen to this fucking clown blaming everyone but himself... little bitch I’m gonna whoop your ass tomorrow boy” lol then was like oh what? Is this question for me? Shit where’s the mic? Lol

BA and PB (inc BT) get on well. PB is stuck in the middle.

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Pretty telling that Ben is blaming the FCS even though the other teams are either dealing with the issue, or there is no issue and Bens systems are too complex and can’t be integrated into the system like everyone else’s can. 

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1 minute ago, chesirecat said:

BA and PB (inc BT) get on well. PB is stuck in the middle.

No doubt, but his body language at the time the camera panned to him looked like he was thinking that lol

They all get on well. Dalton and Sirena get on well too, Spithill and Barker, Burling and Ainslie. They’re all mates. Still, skipper to skipper, blaming your opposition for your own shortcomings comes close to that line. Obviously Burling felt enough to defend his team. Ainslie just needs to get his shit together. He’s failing on the world stage. 

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41 minutes ago, RantyDave said:

“Can you send us the software and how it is designed? Then we can work out what the problem is.”

Software? It moves an arm up and down, how can it possibly have a software problem?

Battery issues I would believe....

If they're operating/running the same batteries as the other 3 (haven't downsized the batteries to save weight, for instance), haven't played around with the system pressure settings, have not changed flow settings, etc, then they may have a valid complaint against the supplier of the system (Cariboni).

Others have commented how slowly they raise their foils, which can be due to adjustments in the hydraulic system different from those run by the other 3. Time to front up Sir Ben.

Any guesses on which team requested the following interpretations??

Interpretation 039-2 FCS Modification.pdf

Interpretation 045-Battery Arrangements.pdf

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40 minutes ago, RantyDave said:

“Can you send us the software and how it is designed? Then we can work out what the problem is.”

Software? It moves an arm up and down, how can it possibly have a software problem?

Battery issues I would believe....

If the software really is very simple, why didn't ETNZ send it over back in 2019 when the issues first arose?

Clearly, they INEOS have other issues, but it will be hugely frustrating to be missing days on the water because a ETNZ supplied part is shit. 

I also sure that it won't sit right with many kiwi fans knowing they win because their 'one design' black box isn't so very one design.  

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6 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

 

Clearly, they INEOS have other issues, but it will be hugely frustrating to be missing days on the water because a ETNZ supplied part is shit. 

I also sure that it won't sit right with many kiwi fans knowing they win because their 'one design' black box isn't so very one design.  

Yet 3 out of 4 teams can make it work. 

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1 minute ago, FinnFish said:

Yet 3 out of 4 teams can make it work. 

That's not what they said in the press conference.

Today it was INEOS. And INEOS seem to be having the most issues.

But, how is it a fair design race if you're not permitted to know how the part that is breaking works?  It could be how INEOS are using it. It could be a fault with their specific unit. Who knows. But if it's one design, there should be full disclosure so all teams have a fair crack at diagnosing issue on their own yacht.  

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6 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

That's not what they said in the press conference.

Today it was INEOS. And INEOS seem to be having the most issues.

But, how is it a fair design race if you're not permitted to know how the part that is breaking works?  It could be how INEOS are using it. It could be a fault with their specific unit. Who knows. But if it's one design, there should be full disclosure so all teams have a fair crack at diagnosing issue on their own yacht.  

Today it was Ineos, Yesterday it was Ineos, tomorrow it’s Ineos. FFS everyone else is using the fucking thing, showing up, practicing, racing. That team can’t even get off the dock without a break down let alone race! Maybe Ratcliffe is starting to realise he’s been duped.

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5 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

That's not what they said in the press conference.

Today it was INEOS. And INEOS seem to be having the most issues.

But, how is it a fair design race if you're not permitted to know how the part that is breaking works?  It could be how INEOS are using it. It could be a fault with their specific unit. Who knows. But if it's one design, there should be full disclosure so all teams have a fair crack at diagnosing issue on their own yacht.  

Again, how is it 3 of 4 teams are having zero issues. The problem is restricted to one team and one team only. After today it's pretty apparent INEOS won't get close to AM or PRADA. Put a fork in them, book return tickets.

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16 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

If the software really is very simple, why didn't ETNZ send it over back in 2019 when the issues first arose?

Clearly, they INEOS have other issues, but it will be hugely frustrating to be missing days on the water because a ETNZ supplied part is shit. 

I also sure that it won't sit right with many kiwi fans knowing they win because their 'one design' black box isn't so very one design.  

Hahaha, right on cue, the old blame-someone-else Pom chestnut rears its ugly head! 3 out of 4 teams have no problems running the same systems as supplied. And why is it ETNZ's fault, considering the cant system and associated FCS are third-party supplied items? Or did you just read Sir Ben's blame-call and decided it was true enough for you??

Brexitannia have to get past AM and LR before we have to worry about them in the Match.

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59 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Is Pete all South Island bro gangsta now? Or just his inner monologue? 

Haha. South Island bro gangsta? Shit mate, are you talking about Mainland, NZ? You must have the wrong bloody country. ;-)

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Complex systems that involve hand built hardware and software require really good work to keep running. And it's not hard to mess that stuff up. I'd be interested to know the backgrounds of the engineers on  INEOS vs the engineers on the other teams. But I really hope they sort that stuff out.

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16 minutes ago, Indio said:

Brexitannia have to get past AM and LR before we have to worry about them in the Match.

And that's not going to happen, obviously. ;-)

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36 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

If the software really is very simple, why didn't ETNZ send it over back in 2019 when the issues first arose?

Probably because they didn't ask for it; and they didn't ask for it because even they don't think the software is the problem.

If it were me, which it isn't, I'd give all the teams a dump of the software right now purely to shut Ainslie up.

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44 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

If the software really is very simple, why didn't ETNZ send it over back in 2019 when the issues first arose?

Clearly, they INEOS have other issues, but it will be hugely frustrating to be missing days on the water because a ETNZ supplied part is shit. 

I also sure that it won't sit right with many kiwi fans knowing they win because their 'one design' black box isn't so very one design.  

AM beat ETNZ using the same shit component. 

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8 minutes ago, nroose said:

Complex systems that involve hand built hardware and software require really good work to keep running. And it's not hard to mess that stuff up. I'd be interested to know the backgrounds of the engineers on  INEOS vs the engineers on the other teams. But I really hope they sort that stuff out.

The team is in disarray because of what happened, Not good for moral, bad start.
1890670968_Ineos5.PNG.129556e6274700da3b5f57253d7c29ff.PNG
This is what they said about it themselves:
https://www.ineosteamuk.com/en/articles/338_Frustrating-first-day-of-racing-for-INEOS-TEAM-UK-in-Americas-Cup-World-Series.html
 

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3 minutes ago, nroose said:

Complex systems that involve hand built hardware and software require really good work to keep running.

No they don't. A Casio watch from 1984 runs just fine. A CD player from ten years later will keep running until the laser physically wears out. Traffic lights change. Your car starts. The TV turns on.

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2 minutes ago, Schakel said:

The team is in disarray because of what happened, Not good for moral, bad start.
1890670968_Ineos5.PNG.129556e6274700da3b5f57253d7c29ff.PNG
This is what they said about it themselves:
https://www.ineosteamuk.com/en/articles/338_Frustrating-first-day-of-racing-for-INEOS-TEAM-UK-in-Americas-Cup-World-Series.html
 

So they failed because a circuit overheated. Cooling your circuits is not ETNZ job is up to each team to find a solution to keep their circuits cool. Go buy a fan for FFS 

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8 minutes ago, mako23 said:

So they failed because a circuit overheated. Cooling your circuits is not ETNZ job is up to each team to find a solution to keep their circuits cool. Go buy a fan for FFS 

So much for more then a year training and testing. 
Interview with Giles Scott and Joey Newton.
https://youtu.be/WKnerj7l3xE
But they are not giving up Joey said.
We are going to sort it all out and get it back on the racecourse.

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2 minutes ago, Schakel said:

This is what they said about it themselves:

"the team was forced to delay docking out due to a valve driver board malfunction in the FCS. The team quickly replaced it with a spare supplied system, only for it to overheat ahead of the first race against American Magic. After another set of repairs, made on the water by the engineering team, BRITANNIA made it to the start line with a matter of seconds to the start. The AC75 boat, however, proved difficult to manoeuvre, causing a nosedive.

The second race of the day, against Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli, saw the FCS battery shut down completely, and INEOS TEAM UK retire from racing."

 

So, a theory: the hydraulic valves are driven by servos, and this valve/servo combination has been fitted in such a way that something keeps jamming them. Maybe a pipe moves around while sailing, something changes shape when the rig tension goes on, or whatever. Servos have electric motors in them and these are a shocker for "pushing" really hard when jammed. I have a servo on my desk that has a stall current of three amps, which is (probably) enough to get the cable warm. Point is that in normal operation the current drain is tiny, and when you have it sitting on a work bench going "zzzip zzzip" the current drain is tiny, and when it jams against a carbon fibre beam as thick as your leg it is not tiny at all.

Hence breaking the first driver board, and having the second overheat ... and even when it hasn't completely shat itself you can imagine that a slightly sticky hydraulic valve is not going to help one's manoeuvring at all.  

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20 minutes ago, RantyDave said:

Probably because they didn't ask for it; and they didn't ask for it because even they don't think the software is the problem.

If it were me, which it isn't, I'd give all the teams a dump of the software right now purely to shut Ainslie up.

Er... they did ask for it, and have been asking for it for over a year. 

But yes, you would think if there was no issue with the system, then ETNZ would be keen to share it to clear the air. But alas, they do not. 

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16 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

But yes, you would think if there was no issue with the system, then ETNZ would be keen to share it to clear the air.

I'm a New Zealand tax payer. They used my money to develop this, and I want it open sourced.

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The foil arms hydraulic system is powered by a 15KW motor powered by 48V/5KwH lithium battery driving the hydraulic pump which charges the accumulator and then directly drive the 100mm bore dia./80mm piston dia. x 780mm stroke rams moving the barrel to which the arms are connected. The arms hydraulic system pressure is set at 350bar, so you can work out yourselves how much oil flow is moving the 1385-kg arm/foil from normal sailing possie to fully-up in 3 seconds. Nothing complicated at all here!!

The  "valve driver board malfunction in the FCS" and the overheated replacement board point to an electrical fault in their system. The fact that the "battery shut down completely" tends to support an electrical short-circuit in their system - the lithium battery management system includes integrated protection against overcharging, short circuit, deep discharge, polarity reversal, overheating and submersion - take your pick as to what caused the shutdown:ph34r:

The problem is not the FCS per se - I'm calling incompetence by their engineers who integrated the system.

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1 hour ago, FinnFish said:

But designed by an F1 team, must be advantageous.

Could we stop with this fantasy about F1 engineers bringing a definitive surplus?
If the AC75 had wheels maybe that would be of real higher interest.
Unfortunately they are boats that foils and float from time to time: naval architects and air engineers. That's what you need.

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1 hour ago, Mozzy Sails said:

If the software really is very simple, why didn't ETNZ send it over back in 2019 when the issues first arose?

Clearly, they INEOS have other issues, but it will be hugely frustrating to be missing days on the water because a ETNZ supplied part is shit. 

I also sure that it won't sit right with many kiwi fans knowing they win because their 'one design' black box isn't so very one design.  

This is modern sport. The black arts are an important part of any sports team in this day and age If we lose we lose but the how and why is really down to not being good enough in all departments including the black arts. Anyway Team Brexit will be fine and my support will be 100% for them and like any fan I hope they solve their problems. For four skin and a few other Kiwis keep up the banter and rubbishing us. We can take it and even enjoy it.

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32 minutes ago, Indio said:

The foil arms hydraulic system is powered by a 15KW motor powered by 48V/5KwH lithium battery driving the hydraulic pump which charges the accumulator and then directly drive the 100mm bore dia./80mm piston dia. x 780mm stroke rams moving the barrel to which the arms are connected. The arms hydraulic system pressure is set at 350bar, so you can work out yourselves how much oil flow is moving the 1385-kg arm/foil from normal sailing possie to fully-up in 3 seconds. Nothing complicated at all here!!

The  "valve driver board malfunction in the FCS" and the overheated replacement board point to an electrical fault in their system. The fact that the "battery shut down completely" tends to support an electrical short-circuit in their system - the lithium battery management system includes integrated protection against overcharging, short circuit, deep discharge, polarity reversal, overheating and submersion - take your pick as to what caused the shutdown:ph34r:

The problem is not the FCS per se - I'm calling incompetence by their engineers who integrated the system.

It could well be incompetence, but without knowing how the software is working, how will they ever know?

Ben said they were getting updates up until midday... this is on a system that is as old as the class. So, the software can't be that simple. 

Are ETNZ running on beta software ahead of other teams on what is supposed to be a one design part? Or are these updates being pushed out to all teams at once?

Without knowing how the software is working, how is any team to know when something goes wrong what is the cause. Is the temperature sensor faulty? Is the sensor working, but the temperature clocking set too low / miss programmed? Or, are INEOS just not keeping it cool enough? 

All the challengers admit to having problems. 

If ETNZ are playing clean on this, then share the software. 

Don't get me wrong, INEOS have other stuff to sort out. If I were them I'd ban any internal moaning about FCS. But externally I wouldn't shut up about it. 

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14 minutes ago, Flags said:

Asked and answered in the press conference.... NO

Did you watch the press conference? 
Bruni was not keen to answer first...
AM: "there's all sorts of projects to keep that system up and running and it's a battle. No doubt there are issues we constantly need to be looking at... The system is a work in progress for sure... as ben says, it's an unknow at times, that's for sure. We're fighting an uphill battle to make sure it's working"
Bruni "it's a complex system and we had a few issues today, but not any big problems. It's always a work in progress"

Obviously Pete then says he's not had any issues today. Pete tells ben just to sing if they need help. Ben takes him up on the offer and says 'send us the software so they can work out what the problem is'. Pete, just shrugs. Is he a just disingenuous guy? 

If I were Ben, I'd make every press conference a question over the integrity of the ETNZ for supplying a sub standard 'one design' part and keeping it workings hidden. I'd call in to question Pete personally over his morals of 'winning' under such conditions. 

 

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Ok so apart from the FCS issues and the nosedive due to rudder cavitation did anyone else notice how the leeward telltales on the lower half of the main were dancing all over the place?!? Compared to all the others who’s appeared to be streaming horizontally all the way to the leech? Maybe their twin skins are to flat and breaking the laminar flow on the leeward side killing the power? 

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32 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

It could well be incompetence, but without knowing how the software is working, how will they ever know?

Ben said they were getting updates up until midday... this is on a system that is as old as the class. So, the software can't be that simple. 

Are ETNZ running on beta software ahead of other teams on what is supposed to be a one design part? Or are these updates being pushed out to all teams at once?

Without knowing how the software is working, how is any team to know when something goes wrong what is the cause. Is the temperature sensor faulty? Is the sensor working, but the temperature clocking set too low / miss programmed? Or, are INEOS just not keeping it cool enough? 

All the challengers admit to having problems. 

If ETNZ are playing clean on this, then share the software. 

Don't get me wrong, INEOS have other stuff to sort out. If I were them I'd ban any internal moaning about FCS. But externally I wouldn't shut up about it. 

Did you watch the press conference.? Suggest you do. No team admitted to having problems. American Magic admitted to using a lot of man power and resource to manage it, he gave Ben a hint. I'm sure Teams have had issues but with time on the water comes better understanding of the system and what's required to manage it. To me Ineos are behind the other teams in this area otherwise all the teams would be behaving like Ineos? Some duck shoving and shifting of the blame which is typical but Ben is going to believe what his guys tell him. They'll need to shut Ben up on this issue though as it doesn't look good for the event

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21 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

Obviously Pete then says he's not had any issues today. Pete tells ben just to sing if they need help. Ben takes him up on the offer and says 'send us the software so they can work out what the problem is'. Pete, just shrugs. Is he a just disingenuous guy? 

Thats just banter come on, PB has no control over the release of anything.

ETNZ being on beta software the other competitors aren't would mean the parts aren't one design, so the measurers who do have access to the software would have a field day. I think we can assume during racing they are all on the same software.

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