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3 minutes ago, fish7yu said:

+1

On foils, straight line speed of Rita 2 is not too much off the pace.

But, just too many areas that they are behind the competition at this late stage, Ben is clearly a defeated man at the press conference, I really feel sorry for the team.

It is VMG not reaching around like they spent most of the (few) days sailing from their Portsmouth base. 

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shes legit ... foil arm looks to be in the front end of the box ... opposite of all other teams ... what are we going to read into that?

ETNZ are probably favorites .....but win or lose....Team New Zealand have firmly established themselves as the all time great AC nation in the modern era.   From the time they first emerged, they have

And so it begins. Image credit and copyright Allesandro Spiga  

Posted Images

3 minutes ago, mad said:

I saw it in person, its not likely something that's going to hit the headlines.  He's not important enough to hit the tabloids for that.

I also am puzzled re what’s the relevance re a shitty all black is to the AC campaign or comparisons with Coutts. Like it went from sailing/program/sailor development character/leadership to suddenly a neither here or there “what about ism” about some kiwi I’ve never heard of. 

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1 hour ago, KoW said:

All this talk of INEOS being dead in the water seems a little premature to me... Sure they have looked like a beached whale in maneuvres but that could all change with work on their foils and better sail shape control in turns.

Their speed in a straight line when foiling is competitive. Admittedly time is not on their side, and it doesn't look the path to success is simple, but if they don't tortoise through turns they could win races. 

Total speculation, but I get the impression that their whole foil control design is more reliant on fine control of the foil arms than the other teams' approaches and the one-design foil arm responsiveness is not adequate for their intended approach(?) 

The problem is that they have spent all of their foil tickets...

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A lot of talk on staying on foils. Outside of foil design, aero and rig is there a chance this may be a heavy tub?

As for the program, who questions the designers? Was this just another case of design freedom staring at a screen of numbers or were leading International/UK foiling boat designers invited to cross check with balanced opinion? 

 

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3 minutes ago, bat said:

A lot of talk on staying on foils. Outside of foil design, aero and rig is there a chance this may be a heavy tub?

As for the program, who questions the designers? Was this just another case of design freedom staring at a screen of numbers or were leading International/UK foiling boat designers invited to cross check with balanced opinion? 

 

Who appointed the design team?

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Yes Ineos was officially the fastest boat on Day 3 according to the AC site at something over 43 Knots.? It shows speed is irrelevant if you cant foil through a tack or gybe and don't have VMG. Careers and Resumes are on the line for people like Ben, Grant and Nick Holroyd IMO just to name a few. It smells like an Oracle campaign all the money in the world and still can't design a fast boat. And there's every chance Nick was let go by Team NZ for a reason? The ETNZ celebrations yesterday were akin to winning the AC let's see what happens today?

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1 minute ago, Stingray~ said:

Yep, that’s a very fast boat in the right pressure, the charts prove it. 

Sadly, pure straight line speed is not enough to be competitive.

Rita 2 is slow in maneuvers

Falls off the foils easily

Sticky in the water

Does not point well

........

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I think it's what Nate said (Jal reiterated) Ineos's foils are not providing enough low speed lift. They've gone for a high speed low drag profile, that's just not working well at manoeuvering speeds. Which is why they can be fast, but shit at tacks etc. They might be able to change the profile to something more balanced. There seems to be a heap of nuance in designing these foils.

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3 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

I think it's what Nate said (Jal reiterated) Ineos's foils are not providing enough low speed lift. They've gone for a high speed low drag profile, that's just not working well at manoeuvering speeds. Which is why they can be fast, but shit at tacks etc. They might be able to change the profile to something more balanced. Their seems to be a heap of nuance in designing these foils.

There flaps should be helping when there  going slow.  Lucky for them there are more flap allocations than foils 

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image.png.1f2a61850c6e09cb2d5d2ea4b87c8895.png
 
These images are from Maxhuggen the aussie

see how GB foils are a swept back design. A long long time ago I remember that swept back wing design in aircraft have lift isssues at low speed. There very good at high speed, but crap at slow. Which is a problem when landing. One way around this problem  is stonking big flaps. Ineos flaps don’t seem that big

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Just now, mako23 said:

image.png.1f2a61850c6e09cb2d5d2ea4b87c8895.png
 
These images are from Maxhuggen the aussie

see how GB foils are a swept back design. A long long time ago I remember that swept back wing design in aircraft have lift isssues at low speed. There very good at high speed, but crap at slow. Which is a problem when landing. One way around this problem  is stonking big flaps. Ineos flaps don’t seem that big

Plane wings at low speed are long and thin, like the U2 and here like AM and Emirates, faster airfighter have shorter wings. I don't know how it applies in the water, it might replicate, the design teams did the maths.

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Can’t really evaluate lift without cross section foil data and how much power is generated by the mainsail at low apparent wind. 
 

The joke with the F104s used to be it was a missile with a man in it because the wings were so thin profile and generated so little lift. 
 

Look at Luna Rossa and Ineos the profiles are more alike than they are diff. 

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12 minutes ago, mako23 said:

There flaps should be helping when there  going slow.

Putting a lot of flap on during tacks/gybes could be stalling them. The Italian helmman said yesterday during the last race when foiling got marginal, that they were using too much pitch. I'm not sure whether he was referring to the foils or the rudders though.

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2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Given they topped the speeds yesterday they can’t be that draggy 

the lack of lift is far more likely 

 

Indeed.

 Is it possible (or likely) that they have more than one pair of foils configured for different conditions and they chose a pair that didn't suit the conditions on the course? Seems they need to trade a little speed for more lift in light conditions.

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4 hours ago, sailfly said:

How much of the Ineos's maneuverability through tacks is down to sail control (or lack thereof). Seems like the other teams can manipulate the shape much more effectively. 

Ok as I'm watching the boat cameras of Ineos v ETNZ the mainsail "unfolds" much more rigidly on a tack/gybe on Ineos than ETNZ. Looks like its due to the two piece boom? The transition from one side to another remind me of a piece of plastic with a kink folding one way and then the other. 

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Plane wings at low speed are long and thin, like the U2 and here like AM and Emirates, faster airfighter have shorter wings. I don't know how it applies in the water, it might replicate, the design teams did the maths.

On the subject of Ineos foils. 

During October they were sailing with the new Merc foils as a pair.

November saw them sailing with the Merc on stbd and the one they've been using this regatta on port

Early December they trained with both foils the ones used in the Regatta.

My observations, for what it's worth, was the Mercs saw them flat and low (base of skeg almost touching) with the ability for windward heel and good height out of the tacks - wind speeds 8-12knots.

November with both foil designs, it was noticeable the "regatta" foils consistently hadn't enough lift (and by association height) out of the tacks compared to the Mercs. Wind speeds 7/12 knots.

During December from the little I saw, the current foils look pretty fast in a breeze upwind and down, but then there wasn't really much to judge against.

New updates might well include updates to foil internal controls.

One plus takeaway is they would have heaps of good data off the other teams but not so much the other teams on Ineos.

 

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55 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

On the subject of Ineos foils. 

During October they were sailing with the new Merc foils as a pair.

November saw them sailing with the Merc on stbd and the one they've been using this regatta on port

Early December they trained with both foils the ones used in the Regatta.

My observations, for what it's worth, was the Mercs saw them flat and low (base of skeg almost touching) with the ability for windward heel and good height out of the tacks - wind speeds 8-12knots.

November with both foil designs, it was noticeable the "regatta" foils consistently hadn't enough lift (and by association height) out of the tacks compared to the Mercs. Wind speeds 7/12 knots.

During December from the little I saw, the current foils look pretty fast in a breeze upwind and down, but then there wasn't really much to judge against.

New updates might well include updates to foil internal controls.

One plus takeaway is they would have heaps of good data off the other teams but not so much the other teams on Ineos.

 

So if I reading you correctly the Merc foils are better ?

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2 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Plane wings at low speed are long and thin, like the U2 and here like AM and Emirates, faster airfighter have shorter wings. I don't know how it applies in the water, it might replicate, the design teams did the maths.

There some analogy between water and air when it comes to wing design.However there are some other issues such as in 

water only issues

cavitation 

no compression of water

air issues

supersonic issues (not likely to ever replicated in water) which was a major reason for swept back wing design 

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9 hours ago, atwinda said:

<snip>

I have a hunch that both Ineos and ETNZ with a sort of similar hull concept really struggle to take off, and are much more optimized for flight. While LLPR and AM more subtle bustle/skeg approaches allow for lower take-off speeds. LLPR didn't have nearly as difficult a time getting back on their foils against ETNZ in that last one.

n=1 problem

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1 minute ago, mako23 said:

The forcast was for light winds during this week

so you put your slower foils on.....is this a form of sandbagging then 

That's a good question. 

I went back and checked the vids showing them sailing to see what they might be testing and  how - looking at water disturbance, happenings on support boats, usual stuff from distant memory.

It can be quite difficult not giving key things away, especially one on one, and it's important for the crew to go hard out and be on their limits, so how does one do it? Well, one method is to use one sub-speed item and pref not the sails. Foils in this case would be ideal as they can push hard having spent a month trialing the setup and getting the numbers.

 

Of course, we don't know this but I was struck just how B was relaxed in the second press conf and evasive re foils. Why hasn't any commentator picked up on those early foils?

Anyway just a thought.

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9 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

They showed a close of the top of the UK foils and they sure showed a lot of wear, paint peeling, etc...  With all of the back to back racing days they may not have been able to keep them up like usual. 

Interesting

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2 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

They showed a close of the top of the UK foils and they sure showed a lot of wear, paint peeling, etc...  With all of the back to back racing days they may not have been able to keep them up like usual. 

I suspect that is just wet sanding them to be as fine and fast as possible.

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Just now, Laurence said:

Is this independently checked after sailing, these boats are big enough to have hidden water tanks. 

do the boats get independently inspected? 

Aside from the measurement process prior to racing, I would rather imagine that they would be scrutineered after racing.

Not sure why you'd want water tanks, since you are likely to want less weight not more.

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

Aside from the measurement process prior to racing, I would rather imagine that they would be scrutineered after racing.

Not sure why you'd want water tanks, since you are likely to want less weight not more.

There is precedent for the brits to fill tanks full of Tennents beer.

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9 hours ago, ed__miller said:

Watching the rear camera views in each of the port or stbd feeds on YouTube it is every apparent that Ineos don’t seem to adjust outhaul of either of the mainsails between tacks. You watch AM and they adjust at least 4-6inches of outhaul every tack/gybe between the windward and leeward side. Gotta have an effect on the aerofoil shape of the mainsail. I am constantly seeing leeward telltales dancing all over place. No way there is laminar flow over the leach of the mainsail in the bottom 1/4. As for the foot. Don’t get me started on end plating 

Looks to be disproven on there first manoeuvre. Plenty of change in sides.

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9 hours ago, ed__miller said:

Watching the rear camera views in each of the port or stbd feeds on YouTube it is every apparent that Ineos don’t seem to adjust outhaul of either of the mainsails between tacks. You watch AM and they adjust at least 4-6inches of outhaul every tack/gybe between the windward and leeward side. Gotta have an effect on the aerofoil shape of the mainsail. I am constantly seeing leeward telltales dancing all over place. No way there is laminar flow over the leach of the mainsail in the bottom 1/4. As for the foot. Don’t get me started on end plating 

Haven't watched all the rear camera vids, the mains all have quite different approaches, but seem mostly effective. Bendy boom, hinged boom, battens, hydraulics, spanners, and traditional outhauls. AM seem quite different with a boom and outhauls, they seem to pull the windward skin dead flat to approximate a wing I guess, others seem to have more depth in both skins. 

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23 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

Another great British delta wing ...

gb foil.png

890f67-1.png

Last time the Poms brought a Delta wing to NZ there was a mishap also!

 

Photo captured soon after the safe landing of XH498 at RNZAF Ohakea air Base.

59726_5c6db2f400238IMG_20190220_102226.jpg

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10 hours ago, mad said:

I saw it in person, its not likely something that's going to hit the headlines.  He's not important enough to hit the tabloids for that.

Anyway, enough of that side track.

Are they slow or fast or sandbagging..............and what are the odds of a major upset?

And we know the internet is full of truth and people making unprovable statements. Anyway I was there when you were and he did sign the kids stuff. Please prove otherwise.

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9 hours ago, fish7yu said:

Sadly, pure straight line speed is not enough to be competitive.

Rita 2 is slow in maneuvers

Falls off the foils easily

Sticky in the water

Does not point well

........

Yes that maybe so but as a Brit I fancy are chances.

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2 hours ago, mako23 said:

So how many days will Ineos stay in the shed for

one week ?

two weeks ?

 

Four years?

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14 hours ago, jaysper said:

It's the same story as the last cup.

I feel absolutely no sympathy for Ben but I do for the rest of the team and wish they had turned up with a better weapon.

Oh well, just threw a bid on trade me for it.

I have the space out the back of the house to park it, but might need to hit up a few Wellingtonian anarchists to help me crew the thing.

I will tell Ben. He will miss the relationship he had with you.

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https://www.ineosteamuk.com/en/articles/344_Race-against-time-to-the-start-of-the-Challenger-Series.html

Excerpt -

“This has been the most important week of our campaign. It is obvious for everyone to see we are struggling with our speed, both in the light airs and in general. We have three weeks to improve our performance to get us into contention in the PRADA Cup across all wind conditions.

“We have some good ideas about what has been causing the issues and the extra drag so now our big focus will be to make the necessary modifications, alongside a host of other planned upgrades to BRITANNIA, and improve our performance to where it needs to be”.

- Sir Ben

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3 hours ago, dullers said:

I will tell Ben. He will miss the relationship he had with you.

I know. I've been meaning to tell him, but just haven't had the heart to.

Thanks Dullers. Great to know Ben has another close friend like you who can break things like this to him easy. 

 

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I think the bendy boom is a decent solution. Pro's and cons to that and boomless. But, I don't think this the massive difference. 

Sailing team wise, I think they'd be pretty happy. Not really any big crew screwups. But, then perhaps too far behind to pick up on the small losses. 

They weren't slow in displacement mode. So, presumably the hull is reasonably slippy. ENTZ looked like all the crew to leeward trying to get the chine in and reduce wetted area. Whilst INEOS more upright and crew up to windward. I wonder if part of the issue is producing enough righting moment sub 15 knots boat speed?

But for sure, if you're dropping off the foils early, then there is a lift / stall issue. Interesting to here Grant still quite confident of the higher wind speeds. I wonder if he favours modifying present set up to reach a bit more downrange over drastic changes. 

I think they need to get the crew more aero. The flight controllers have their head right up in the breeze (when not grinding). Then that causes Giles to sit higher to see over them. 

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I suggest that they replace the GBR with FRA or MON as more appropriate to their unlovely sponsor and save the Poms the embarrassment, no one would want to be remotely tarred with the doggy brush.

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1 hour ago, Mozzy Sails said:

I think the bendy boom is a decent solution. Pro's and cons to that and boomless. But, I don't think this the massive difference. 

Sailing team wise, I think they'd be pretty happy. Not really any big crew screwups. But, then perhaps too far behind to pick up on the small losses. 

They weren't slow in displacement mode. So, presumably the hull is reasonably slippy. ENTZ looked like all the crew to leeward trying to get the chine in and reduce wetted area. Whilst INEOS more upright and crew up to windward. I wonder if part of the issue is producing enough righting moment sub 15 knots boat speed?

But for sure, if you're dropping off the foils early, then there is a lift / stall issue. Interesting to here Grant still quite confident of the higher wind speeds. I wonder if he favours modifying present set up to reach a bit more downrange over drastic changes. 

I think they need to get the crew more aero. The flight controllers have their head right up in the breeze (when not grinding). Then that causes Giles to sit higher to see over them. 

The guy controlling the main looks clueless. If you open the leach in a light wind tack were you are foiling you lose the power , yes it's more draggy but you can flatten the camber low down and twist the head only when you are going again. The bendy boom looks to move the deapest point of the camber forward as it bends so it's likely that they are in effect backfilling the slot with main and stalling the flow over the main. The cockpits are a mess. Put one flight controller in the front of one on a seat out of the air flow with a bunch of screens fire the other and put the main trimer in the front of the other one with screens and a seat. Close up the cockpit around them . Turn the four grinders longitudinally and again close up the cockpits. Leaving you with Ben and Gilles at the back to chat and tack. Remove the stupid lump at the end of the jib track and the crossbar at the transom. Fire the sail designer put a forward prod on the forstay 18 stile and get a square head on all the jib's so they twist open in the gust. Bin the boom and go to a system that controls leach and camber independently in control and for each skin. 

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12 minutes ago, Status quo said:

The guy controlling the main looks clueless. If you open the leach in a light wind tack were you are foiling you lose the power , yes it's more draggy but you can flatten the camber low down and twist the head only when you are going again. The bendy boom looks to move the deapest point of the camber forward as it bends so it's likely that they are in effect backfilling the slot with main and stalling the flow over the main. The cockpits are a mess. Put one flight controller in the front of one on a seat out of the air flow with a bunch of screens fire the other and put the main trimer in the front of the other one with screens and a seat. Close up the cockpit around them . Turn the four grinders longitudinally and again close up the cockpits. Leaving you with Ben and Gilles at the back to chat and tack. Remove the stupid lump at the end of the jib track and the crossbar at the transom. Fire the sail designer put a forward prod on the forstay 18 stile and get a square head on all the jib's so they twist open in the gust. Bin the boom and go to a system that controls leach and camber independently in control and for each skin. 

Bleddyn is an exception sailor, and a very clever bloke. One of the last batch of really good 29er sailors we had, alongside James Peters who went on to be world number 1 49er helm. One of the last the kids to win two junior national titles too. So, a talent. He never really gave 49ers a proper shot, instead getting a BEng and going to work for Red Bull. He then took a demotion to go across to the BAR academy and has since worked through several roles on the second team, and design team, and is now stepping up to the main trim role. I really doubt his trimming is 'the' issue. However, there could be timing issues during the maneovuers. 

I think LR have the nicest main set up, but they also seem to be passing the traveller  / trim to the second helmsman during turns while sibello is crossing. Not sure who is doing it on INEOS in these moments. 
 INEOS seem to swap rudder pitch between helm and windward flight controller, when he doesn't need to be grinding. But, I'm not sure what giles is doing except the wheel while ben is swapping sides. 

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5 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

Is Ineos the perfect Sandbag.  Considering getting the day's fastest speed on a low wind day was the only glimpse of the real position?

I guess the other Challengers are about to find out soon enough, Kiwing. Be a pretty exciting development if it turned out to be true. Sir Ben would be laughing his arse off round about now, instead of being up to his neck in shit.

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Nobody is sandbagging. Sandbagging only works in theory in sports like F1 where preseason testing is in February and there’s an entire season ahead of them, so you load up the car with extra fuel to gain data for suspension, car balance, aerodynamic and PU performance refinement - stay under the radar so others don’t photograph your entire car and try to brute force it with more resources. 

There’s less than 3 weeks before the event that matters. Ineos may make significant improvements in the 3 weeks and become closer to the rest, but improvement would not be a sign they are sandbagging. 

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4 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

@Miffy sorry, but Pete did a pretty good one on Jimmy AC35, and ETNZ did a pretty good one on the other competitors as well in AC35.

In fact I don't think we ever saw the real backs to the wall speed from ETNZ much.

That was more about foil preservation and being cautious about Oracle having massive resources at their remote home. ETNZ didn’t really have the capability to keep going if they shredded their foils before the final. 

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1 hour ago, Status quo said:

The guy controlling the main looks clueless. If you open the leach in a light wind tack were you are foiling you lose the power , yes it's more draggy but you can flatten the camber low down and twist the head only when you are going again. The bendy boom looks to move the deapest point of the camber forward as it bends so it's likely that they are in effect backfilling the slot with main and stalling the flow over the main. The cockpits are a mess. Put one flight controller in the front of one on a seat out of the air flow with a bunch of screens fire the other and put the main trimer in the front of the other one with screens and a seat. Close up the cockpit around them . Turn the four grinders longitudinally and again close up the cockpits. Leaving you with Ben and Gilles at the back to chat and tack. Remove the stupid lump at the end of the jib track and the crossbar at the transom. Fire the sail designer put a forward prod on the forstay 18 stile and get a square head on all the jib's so they twist open in the gust. Bin the boom and go to a system that controls leach and camber independently in control and for each skin. 

Have you sent this email to INEOS?

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1 hour ago, Kiwing said:

@Miffy sorry, but Pete did a pretty good one on Jimmy AC35, and ETNZ did a pretty good one on the other competitors as well in AC35.

In fact I don't think we ever saw the real backs to the wall speed from ETNZ much.

Correct. ETNZ hardly even tried to win a start until the match itself.

It was so damned obvious that Chris Draper even commented on how they were allowing themselves to get hooked by BAR in the start box.

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2 hours ago, Status quo said:

The guy controlling the main looks clueless. If you open the leach in a light wind tack were you are foiling you lose the power , yes it's more draggy but you can flatten the camber low down and twist the head only when you are going again. The bendy boom looks to move the deapest point of the camber forward as it bends so it's likely that they are in effect backfilling the slot with main and stalling the flow over the main. The cockpits are a mess. Put one flight controller in the front of one on a seat out of the air flow with a bunch of screens fire the other and put the main trimer in the front of the other one with screens and a seat. Close up the cockpit around them . Turn the four grinders longitudinally and again close up the cockpits. Leaving you with Ben and Gilles at the back to chat and tack. Remove the stupid lump at the end of the jib track and the crossbar at the transom. Fire the sail designer put a forward prod on the forstay 18 stile and get a square head on all the jib's so they twist open in the gust. Bin the boom and go to a system that controls leach and camber independently in control and for each skin. 

for someone called "Status Quo" you seem to be recommending a lot of changes!   :)

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https://rule69blog.wordpress.com/

Foil and Trouble

The witches in Macbeth had it about right: “Double, double, toil and trouble; Fire burn and caldron bubble.” For the British team in this Cup cycle it’s: ‘double, double foil trouble’ and they were once again at the mercy of a ruthless King in the form of Team New Zealand today. Shakespeare’s play is all about rampant ambition for the crown and ends with Macbeth being beheaded on the field of battle by a ruthless warrior in the form of Macduff. Ambition is a killer. The casting is obvious. Ainslie as Macbeth, Dalton as Macduff. The inevitable is real.

m4483_etnz_js_201220_0093.jpg?w=1024 Copyright: Emirates Team New Zealand

The America’s Cup has many shipwrecks on its shore. The vast majority of them, so the history books show, are British. It almost feels like an impossible dream. I wonder whether, in my lifetime, I will ever see the English football team lift the World Cup. I doubt it. I have the same feeling about the America’s Cup. It is such a monumental mountain to climb, so difficult to win, and you are drawn to it like the great mountaineers “because it’s there.”

Challengers come and challengers go. The Brits normally put up a decent fight but have always failed. This time the belief was, and probably still is in some mad corners of the internet, there but unless you believe in miracles and witchcraft, the result is inevitable. The arc of history will not be bent in this cycle.

Today’s one-day Prada Christmas Race was farcical from the get-go. The wind didn’t play ball and exposed the new AC class as the donkeys they are in displacement. Ugly carbon monoliths, wallowing and pitching are a sad sight and not what the event wishes to portray. For traditionalists like me that have harped on about bringing back displacement boats in the Cup, our theories are consigned to the dustbin. The Cup is on the right path, they just need to bring in a higher wind range at the lower end and can the racing if it looks like dropping below.

m4482_etnz_js_201220_0164.jpg?w=1024 Copyright: Emirates Team New Zealand

But whilst the racing lasted it was agony and embarrassment for the British sailors. Towed up onto their foils to get into the pre-start with Team New Zealand, one gybe and then a drag race to the start line which they missed down in coffin’s corner, the team were smoked by under-fire Pete Burling. The mountain is very steep to climb anywhere near the favourites. Tacking onto port saw Ineos splashdown and that was that. They never got foiling again. The Kiwis sailed off to the horizon, rounded the top mark, flew down the run and then came back to lap a desperate outfit wondering how much more of this they can take.

Credit to Ben and Giles Scott, they kept their humour but it’s gallows humour. They know just how embarrassing this Cup is for them and what it’s doing for future employment opportunities in the game. The only thing they can do is keep it professional and maintain the belief that brighter days are ahead.

We are 100% going to see a different Ineos when they come back on January 15th. Everything will be thrown at this now including the kitchen sink. Everybody is watching. It is the story of the Cup so far – although I would argue that the real story that is about to be played is the New York Yacht Club’s challenge. Ineos is a side-show. A macabre entertainment of sorts that the Cup so acutely and brutally throws up in nearly every cycle.

The fact that the race was ultimately abandoned as Team New Zealand missed the time limit by a few seconds is irrelevant. The pecking order has been firmly established.

The Michaelmas Term is over and the report cards are in. Team New Zealand is the teacher’s pet, top of the class. American Magic is a pleasure to teach and just needs to work on its exam technique. Prada is a bit disruptive in class, shows flashes of excellence but could do with concentrating more. For Ineos, the headmaster is questioning the parents as to whether this is the right school for their child.

The Lent Term begins on January 15th and we’ll see who hired the best tutors over the Christmas holidays. As the witches say, the fire is burning and the caldron is bubbling. Can’t wait. The America’s Cup is game-on.

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3 hours ago, Status quo said:

The guy controlling the main looks clueless. If you open the leach in a light wind tack were you are foiling you lose the power , yes it's more draggy but you can flatten the camber low down and twist the head only when you are going again. The bendy boom looks to move the deapest point of the camber forward as it bends so it's likely that they are in effect backfilling the slot with main and stalling the flow over the main. The cockpits are a mess. Put one flight controller in the front of one on a seat out of the air flow with a bunch of screens fire the other and put the main trimer in the front of the other one with screens and a seat. Close up the cockpit around them . Turn the four grinders longitudinally and again close up the cockpits. Leaving you with Ben and Gilles at the back to chat and tack. Remove the stupid lump at the end of the jib track and the crossbar at the transom. Fire the sail designer put a forward prod on the forstay 18 stile and get a square head on all the jib's so they twist open in the gust. Bin the boom and go to a system that controls leach and camber independently in control and for each skin. 

I don't think the boom/sail controls are fast enough? It is highly unlikely their foil calculations were so far off from reality. Not sure if you've seen this post from another thread. 

12 hours ago, sailfly said:

Watching the start of the Ineos vs ETNZ race today I noticed that the movement of the main on Ineos does not look nearly as smooth as LR or ETNZ, or even AM for the matter. The unfolding of the sail from one side to another is not in line with the rotation of the boat with respect to the wind, its almost as if the boom on Ineos has to overcome a kink or something. This can be seen clearly observed comparing the timing of the flipping of mainsail of the respective boats with the flipping of the headsail. Ineos seems to be half a second behind while all the other boats flip the main in sync with the headsail or before. Tried to use clips with similar amount of rotation.

Look at when Ineos falls off the foils in Race 1 of today. (the timestamp is embedded with the link just press play)

Compare this to ETNZ in the light air conditions in Race 12 against LR yesterday. This was a maneuver with a similar amount of rotation to the Ineos example. Look how much faster the bottom batten unkinks compared to Ineos. (the timestamp is embedded with the link just press play)

And here is LR. (the timestamp is embedded with the link just press play)

Could not find a light air POV of AM but here is a maneuver with a similar amount of rotation. Even though the boom doesn't bend much the skins shift much more quickly than Ineos. (the timestamp is embedded with the link just press play)

 

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