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10 hours ago, astro said:

Yes they were teams, and Ben was along for the ride as he was in San Fran.

But you lost me at Fail GP.  That is a reality TV production, but you seem to take it seriously.

How was he along for the "ride"?

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shes legit ... foil arm looks to be in the front end of the box ... opposite of all other teams ... what are we going to read into that?

ETNZ are probably favorites .....but win or lose....Team New Zealand have firmly established themselves as the all time great AC nation in the modern era.   From the time they first emerged, they have

And so it begins. Image credit and copyright Allesandro Spiga  

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1 minute ago, mako23 said:

No I support winners not losers.....such as British Cycling and English rugby 

The ultimate fare weather fan. You are above charted drying height when it comes to being shallow.

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17 minutes ago, dullers said:

The ultimate fare weather fan. You are above charted drying height when it comes to being shallow.

To be honest I don’t like Ben, not at all. I think he’s wasted a lot of money that could of been spent better. He’s a good sailor but his management style is under performing. I still hope and wish Ineos does well. If they sort out their  low speed tacking problems and start winning I’ll be very happy camper. 
Dullers feel free to think I hate the Brits I can understand why you think that. There’s no doubt you have been a strong defender of Ineos and I respect that. Maybe I’m a bit more ruthless and less forgiving of poor results.  Take the English rugby team the don’t always win but their professional and still win a lot of games. Nor do they make excuses when losing. Yes there’s been a few disappointments but they do bounce back. All in all the there a great team  and that’s why I respect them and enjoying watching them. 

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1 hour ago, Indio said:

How old do you think Glen Ashby is?!?!

 

It is not fair on Ben to compare him with Glenn.  One of them has won 17 world championships and the Americas Cup.  The other is Ben.

and Glenn is unique at this level of sailing in that he will happily hand the tiller/wheel to someone else so he can focus on sailing the boat.

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3 minutes ago, mako23 said:

To be honest I don’t like Ben, not at all. I think he’s wasted a lot of money that could of been spent better. He’s a good sailor but his management style is under performing. I still hope and wish Ineos does well. If they sort out their  low speed tacking problems and start winning I’ll be very happy camper. 
Dullers feel free to think I hate the Brits I can understand why you think that. There’s no doubt you have been a strong defender of Ineos and I respect that. Maybe I’m a bit more ruthless and less forgiving of poor results.  Take the English rugby team the don’t always win but their professional and still win a lot of games. Nor do they make excuses when losing. Yes there’s been a few disappointments but they do bounce back. All in all the there a great team  and that’s why I respect them and enjoying watching them. 

I support my team through thick and thin. It is called loyalty.  You are not ruthless at all.  You miss out on the ups and downs of sporting life. I guess if AM win I presume you will be a paid up fan and tell everyone your team won....Just What sort of person would I be if i just supported a team when they are winning? I enjoy the victories not so much the losses but look forward to next time when revenge can be sweet. If you had wisdom you would know Kipling's lines..

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same;  
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6 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

It is not fair on Ben to compare him with Glenn.  One of them has won 17 world championships and the Americas Cup.  The other is Ben.

and Glenn is unique at this level of sailing in that he will happily hand the tiller/wheel to someone else so he can focus on sailing the boat.

I think BA is the most successful Olympic sailor ever and has won an AC. Against the Kiwis as well.

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Lots of elementary-school lunchtime food fights going on, with especially some usual-suspects here attacking BA for his ‘management’ style or suppose’d lack of apparent-wind skill. It’s pretty silly, IMO :) The guy is among the very best in the current generation of sailing rock stars, obviously. 
 

Ineos was not set up as well as the others for some of the light, tricky conditions that eventuated in this ACWS, it’s not THAT big a deal and pretty much everyone across the syndicates say they are targeting/expecting/guessing that the target windspeed to optimize for come the PC and the AC is in the 10-14 knot range. 
 

In a V2 of these AC75 Rules and SI’s they will hopefully take a lessons-learned and make the lower WS higher, plus make foils and rudders easier to select and switch the morning of each race-day. This ACWS event exposed those problems, it was unfortunately a touch ugly - for every one of them. 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

It is not fair on Ben to compare him with Glenn.  One of them has won 17 world championships and the Americas Cup.  The other is Ben.

Kidding... Right?

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37 minutes ago, dullers said:

I support my team through thick and thin. It is called loyalty.  You are not ruthless at all.  You miss out on the ups and downs of sporting life. I guess if AM win I presume you will be a paid up fan and tell everyone your team won....Just What sort of person would I be if i just supported a team when they are winning? I enjoy the victories not so much the losses but look forward to next time when revenge can be sweet. If you had wisdom you would know Kipling's lines..

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same;  

I’m putting my Pom hat on and I happily state who I support Ineos then ETNZ.  I don’t support Prada and AM, At the moment things are hard in England. My son still lives there I’m well aware of what people in the street are going. My ex wife has lost her job and has a mortgage to pay. Even though I’ve remarried I’m still on good terms with her. My sons job is still safe but he’s locked up in London. To make matters worse even Christmas has been canceled. Yet life in New Zealand is back to normal. England needs some good news, we have little to cheer about. The Tories are useless and Labour isn’t any better. We have borrowed so much money that a new generation will have to pay it off. We need a win, something to cheer  about. I remember how good it felt when England won the World Cup in rugby. Winning the Ashes was another feel good experience . What we don’t need at the moment is sporting disasters. The nation is feeling low enough at the moment with COVID going crazy.  Brexit is also coming along at break neck pace. This truly has been a year of discontent. It must be the worst year since the war. So if I seem harsh in Sir Ben, my reply is he’s deserve what he gets. He’s promised results he better start bloody delivering. If he can’t deliver then stand aside and let gets someone who can. Winning the AC would be a great boost to the country. Yes I know sailing is not supper popular but winning would generate interest. I think the nation would embrace a victory and have something to cheer about 

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6 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Whatever you might think of Ben his record isn’t exactly poor so getting into a medal winning contest with his record isn’t the best idea. 
 

he also chalked up an AC win too..

If you consider Ben Ainslie's time with Oracle in 2013 a win, do you also consider his time with ETNZ in 2007 a loss? He was the B-boat helm in both cases. It seems that many here weigh Ben's influence heavily in the 2013 win, however, an argument could be made that another qualified tactician would have provided similar results- To be clear, I'm suggesting that it wasn't so much putting Ben in that role, as it was removing JK from it, which was a bigger influence. Ben being involved as a B-Boat driver likely had as much input during the development of the boats during the build-up as he would have as anyone on the A-Boat. I highly doubt he brought game-altering concepts to the table only after he was promoted to the A-Boat in the give it everything we've got assault to retain the cup. That's just not logical.

I don't understand why there is so much importance placed on Ben's trophy case. He can obviously drive the boat, and I doubt that his age and reflexes are the reason the INEOS AC75 has underperformed to date.

Does anyone here really think Ben is the last word in that organization- that Ben is sitting down and telling the designers how to shape the foils, sails, and hull? Those are all team management decisions. To paraphrase Ken Read- They need to close all the doors around them, hunker down, and assess the viability of every option they have available as a team. They aren't out yet, but relying on Ben's past results won't put them back into it either.

The thing I am most surprised by is that INEOS and AM have used their foil allocation- especially considering that they both had test platforms, and they should have been far enough down the development path when it came to committing the designs for their AC75 foils. And actually, if my memory serves me correctly, I believe several around here claimed that ETNZ specifically would be behind the other teams with early test boats who were able to test foil configurations. The other notable thing to mention in this regard, is that INEOS would have carried the software IP from the 2017 AC foils into this, so they weren't exactly starting from a blank sheet as AM did.

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9 minutes ago, Chris UK said:

The irony is that Grant Dalton has a great deal of respect for BA, and Ben for Grant. Read their books. If you don't know or believe that then your wrong.

All the NZ sailors would have respect for Ben. As I say it's only the non sailing racing sailors talking this shit

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14 minutes ago, atwinda said:

Does anyone here really think Ben is the last word in that organization- that Ben is sitting down and telling the designers how to shape the foils, sails, and hull? Those are all team management decisions.

O geez, doyathink? Lol. BA is not even the CEO. 

 

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12 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

All the NZ sailors would have respect for Ben. As I say it's only the non sailing racing sailors talking this shit

How can you know this, that is speculation at its best. Mind due idle speculation with no evidence is the hallmark of this place so carry on. 

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31 minutes ago, mako23 said:

I’m putting my Pom hat on and I happily state who I support Ineos then ETNZ.  I don’t support Prada and AM, At the moment things are hard in England. My son still lives there I’m well aware of what people in the street are going. My ex wife has lost her job and has a mortgage to pay. Even though I’ve remarried I’m still on good terms with her. My sons job is still safe but he’s locked up in London. To make matters worse even Christmas has been canceled. Yet life in New Zealand is back to normal. England needs some good news, we have little to cheer about. The Tories are useless and Labour isn’t any better. We have borrowed so much money that a new generation will have to pay it off. We need a win, something to cheer  about. I remember how good it felt when England won the World Cup in rugby. Winning the Ashes was another feel good experience . What we don’t need at the moment is sporting disasters. The nation is feeling low enough at the moment with COVID going crazy.  Brexit is also coming along at break neck pace. This truly has been a year of discontent. It must be the worst year since the war. So if I seem harsh in Sir Ben, my reply is he’s deserve what he gets. He’s promised results he better start bloody delivering. If he can’t deliver then stand aside and let gets someone who can. Winning the AC would be a great boost to the country. Yes I know sailing is not supper popular but winning would generate interest. I think the nation would embrace a victory and have something to cheer about 

You don't have a Pom hat. If you understood Poms you would realise a sailing race is of no interest over here. We dont plunge into despair over the loss of a little known sailing race.  Apart from soccer interest in every other sport is fairly low key. Sailing is at the bottom of the ladder.  Even losing the Rugby World cup final was not a big event in the mind of most Britons. Winning the AC or not only matters to about 10 people over here. Being a British fan is fun regardless of a win or a loss. That is why the Kiwis or Australians dont have a Balmy Army in cricket. We support through thick and thin and know sport is for fun.  We will not be affected by a win or a loss. If Ben wins he might become a Dame that is all. 

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27 minutes ago, atwinda said:

If you consider Ben Ainslie's time with Oracle in 2013 a win, do you also consider his time with ETNZ in 2007 a loss? He was the B-boat helm in both cases. It seems that many here weigh Ben's influence heavily in the 2013 win, however, an argument could be made that another qualified tactician would have provided similar results- To be clear, I'm suggesting that it wasn't so much putting Ben in that role, as it was removing JK from it, which was a bigger influence. Ben being involved as a B-Boat driver likely had as much input during the development of the boats during the build-up as he would have as anyone on the A-Boat. I highly doubt he brought game-altering concepts to the table only after he was promoted to the A-Boat in the give it everything we've got assault to retain the cup. That's just not logical.

I don't understand why there is so much importance placed on Ben's trophy case. He can obviously drive the boat, and I doubt that his age and reflexes are the reason the INEOS AC75 has underperformed to date.

Does anyone here really think Ben is the last word in that organization- that Ben is sitting down and telling the designers how to shape the foils, sails, and hull? Those are all team management decisions. To paraphrase Ken Read- They need to close all the doors around them, hunker down, and assess the viability of every option they have available as a team. They aren't out yet, but relying on Ben's past results won't put them back into it either.

The thing I am most surprised by is that INEOS and AM have used their foil allocation- especially considering that they both had test platforms, and they should have been far enough down the development path when it came to committing the designs for their AC75 foils. And actually, if my memory serves me correctly, I believe several around here claimed that ETNZ specifically would be behind the other teams with early test boats who were able to test foil configurations. The other notable thing to mention in this regard, is that INEOS would have carried the software IP from the 2017 AC foils into this, so they weren't exactly starting from a blank sheet as AM did.

I think most can agree that Ben is a good sailor if not a great sailor. He’s the logical choice for steering the boat. However Ineos performance in the Christmas racing series was terrible. After such a shocking result it’s only natural that a discussion on how Ben is running the syndicate would happen. As the head of the syndicate the buck stops with him. He has to take responsibility for how things have turned out. He didn’t design the boat but he did hire the designers. He can’t just hire a designer and then wash his hand of all responsibilities.  I’ve also given some stick to Nick Holroyd the designer. He may be culpable than anyone. 
 

Maybe I’m a bit more hard nosed than some, but it’s just not acceptable to have such a large budget and perform so badly.  It’s only natural and also proper that hard questions should  to be asked. 

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2 minutes ago, dullers said:

You don't have a Pom hat. If you understood Poms you would realise a sailing race is of no interest over here. We dont plunge into despair over the loss of a little known sailing race.  Apart from soccer interest in every other sport is fairly low key. Sailing is at the bottom of the ladder.  Even losing the Rugby World cup final was not a big event in the mind of most Britons. Winning the AC or not only matters to about 10 people over here. Being a British fan is fun regardless of a win or a loss. That is why the Kiwis or Australians dont have a Balmy Army in cricket. We support through thick and thin and know sport is for fun.  We will not be affected by a win or a loss. If Ben wins he might become a Dame that is all. 

You have an amazing ability to never be able to see another see another person point of view. It’s not up to you to tell me if I have a Pom hat or not. My British citizenship is that all matters. I have citizenship and nothing you can say can discount this fact. You can’t seem to understand my dislike of Ben does not mean that I’m anti British.  I also know lots of people like rugby in England. I lived in Surrey where rugby was popular. Your view of England seems very northern to me which I suspect you are. 

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4 hours ago, dullers said:

Are all 5 million scientists and sailors now?  While you maybe a very inventive nation building a fast sailing boat, it is not really the limits of design and Engineering. We dont need your scientists because we have our own who build things that go under water and can fire rockets into space while under water etc.That level of expertise in NZ does not exist. We do have the expertise to build a fast racing boat and it may not be as fast as yours, but I have yet to see your nuclear submarine.

split your own atom fuckwit !!!

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12 hours ago, thetruth said:

I think the most expensive and culpable is the endless love affair for Grant Simmer. Was passed his used by date 8 years ago. The fact that someone from a different era is current is beyond me......

8 years ago? Was he not heading the Alinghi cat team that got thumped in an open book design contest vs the tri? No doubt an outstanding sailor with plenty of silverware, like Ben, but in an open design context away from one design and limited fields does he(they) have the open mind to ask the right questions or just believe the designer/s and the numbers handed out? 
A new class with a blank sheet of paper and instead of seeking out sailors and designers familiar with these apparent wind, foil/flap types they go with the past. Even the best (sadly without their best acquisition in Jenson benched), won’t make up for a design team that lacks relevant input and questioning from outside of the loop.

The other 3 teams have Moth world podium sailors in their engine room. INEOs had one and dumped him to the bench...
 

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8 minutes ago, mako23 said:

You have an amazing ability to never be able to see another see another person point of view. It’s not up to you to tell me if I have a Pom hat or not. My British citizenship is that all matters. I have citizenship and nothing you can say can discount this fact. You can’t seem to understand my dislike of Ben does not mean that I’m anti British.  I also know lots of people like rugby in England. I lived in Surrey where rugby was popular. Your view of England seems very northern to me which I suspect you are. 

I will message you. Lets keep this a boat thread.

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1 hour ago, dullers said:

You don't have a Pom hat. If you understood Poms you would realise a sailing race is of no interest over here. We dont plunge into despair over the loss of a little known sailing race.  Apart from soccer interest in every other sport is fairly low key. Sailing is at the bottom of the ladder.  Even losing the Rugby World cup final was not a big event in the mind of most Britons. Winning the AC or not only matters to about 10 people over here. Being a British fan is fun regardless of a win or a loss. That is why the Kiwis or Australians dont have a Balmy Army in cricket. We support through thick and thin and know sport is for fun.  We will not be affected by a win or a loss. If Ben wins he might become a Dame that is all. 

A Brit that refers soccer as soccer, and doesn't think the antipodeans don't have an equivalent to what he thinks is called the Balmy Army?

Not sure who you think you are fooling... But we do know why...

 

giphy.gif

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17 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

A Brit that refers soccer as soccer, and doesn't think the antipodeans don't have an equivalent to what he thinks is called the Balmy Army?

Not sure who you think you are fooling... But we do know why...

 

giphy.gif

He called football soccer?

I'm more pom than he is.

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3 hours ago, dullers said:

It is not formula 1 reflexes that are needed. Having never been on a foiling yacht i am in no real position to debate this.

Says it all.
The faster your reflexes the better you sail a foiling moth.

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5 hours ago, dullers said:

Are all 5 million scientists and sailors now?  While you maybe a very inventive nation building a fast sailing boat, it is not really the limits of design and Engineering. We dont need your scientists because we have our own who build things that go under water and can fire rockets into space while under water etc.That level of expertise in NZ does not exist. We do have the expertise to build a fast racing boat and it may not be as fast as yours, but I have yet to see your nuclear submarine.

And yet you can't control COVID. Try again.

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1 minute ago, FinnFish said:

And yet you can't control COVID. Try again.

I am glad the death of people in our country allows you to get off on proving how wonderful you are.

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6 hours ago, dullers said:

Are all 5 million scientists and sailors now?  While you maybe a very inventive nation building a fast sailing boat, it is not really the limits of design and Engineering. We dont need your scientists because we have our own who build things that go under water and can fire rockets into space while under water etc.That level of expertise in NZ does not exist. We do have the expertise to build a fast racing boat and it may not be as fast as yours, but I have yet to see your nuclear submarine.

Just to be pedantic, you build these things, then they leak embarrassingly and have to go back to the builders for year long refits. But in the past you were quite good at square sail rigs etc... 

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1 hour ago, dullers said:

I am glad the death of people in our country allows you to get off on proving how wonderful you are.

No one tell him what nuclear warheads launched from submarines are for...

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10 hours ago, mako23 said:

How can you know this, that is speculation at its best. Mind due idle speculation with no evidence is the hallmark of this place so carry on. 

Read their books. Ben worked extensively with ENTZ, and got a lot out of it, loved etc. read his book.......its not hard to know stuff, just read. Cheers.

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11 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

In a V2 of these AC75 Rules and SI’s they will hopefully take a lessons-learned and make the lower WS higher, plus make foils and rudders easier to select and switch the morning of each race-day. This ACWS event exposed those problems, it was unfortunately a touch ugly - for every one of them. 

They should bin code zeros and the weight of carrying them and instead allow a second pair of foils to be measured in for each regatta. Wind limits could then probably stay the same. 

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7 hours ago, Nutta said:

Just to be pedantic, you build these things, then they leak embarrassingly and have to go back to the builders for year long refits. But in the past you were quite good at square sail rigs etc... 

Which of our subs leak? Tis news to me.

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Anyone else been watching the Viaduct webcam lately.  At least twice over the the past few days Ineos has trial fitted its mast and (what looks like) played around with foil settings before going out for  practice.  Definitely the most active oboat in the xmas leadup.  MikeNZ and Weta where are you?  We need more on the ground info and less of the usual tossers sounding off at each other.

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6 hours ago, 167149 said:

I think thats the scot's you are referring to there

It is a UK team and I am sure a square rig has been around a lot longer than the UK. You could have used google before attributing the square rig to the Scots.

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11 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

In a V2 of these AC75 Rules and SI’s they will hopefully take a lessons-learned and make the lower WS higher, plus make foils and rudders easier to select and switch the morning of each race-day. This ACWS event exposed those problems, it was unfortunately a touch ugly - for every one of them.

Nah, if I was the DIC (dictator-in-charge) I'd go with

  • NO wind speed limitations.
  • NO minimum mainsail area, encourage reefing.
  • NO battery powered hydraulics - human power only.
  • NO option to change foils, not even 120 hrs before a race. Sails - OK.
  • NO tiny 25 minute course designed for the TL:DW casual TV mob.
  • NO geo-restricted content that no-one can watch if not in the host country.

Fortunately (?), I'm not the DIC.   :lol:

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36 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Nah, if I was the DIC (dictator-in-charge) I'd go with

  • NO wind speed limitations.
  • NO minimum mainsail area, encourage reefing.
  • NO battery powered hydraulics - human power only.
  • NO option to change foils, not even 120 hrs before a race. Sails - OK.
  • NO tiny 25 minute course designed for the TL:DW casual TV mob.
  • NO geo-restricted content that no-one can watch if not in the host country.

Fortunately (?), I'm not the DIC.   :lol:

I'd take all of that, but I don't think they need another 6 or 7 grinders just to move the foils, happy enough with a bettery for that.  If canting keelers are allowed to move their bits about with power then the AC should be able to as well.

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6 minutes ago, Boybland said:

I'd take all of that, but I don't think they need another 6 or 7 grinders just to move the foils, happy enough with a bettery for that.  If canting keelers are allowed to move their bits about with power then the AC should be able to as well.

Understand what you're saying, but I'm thinking about the possible flow-down effects longer term. IMOCAs have foils, and they're sailing solo around the world without a very long extension cord to recharge batteries. Apparently, it can be done single-handed.

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2 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Understand what you're saying, but I'm thinking about the possible flow-down effects longer term. IMOCAs have foils, and they're sailing solo around the world without a very long extension cord to recharge batteries. Apparently, it can be done single-handed.

If your running on the same tack for 10 hours like an IMOCA I'm pretty sure there are a number ways of recovering sufficient charge for the next turn. Heck they could have an electric emergency drive system that used the same batteries that were charged by regening off the prop when you need it to.

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23 minutes ago, Boybland said:

If your running on the same tack for 10 hours like an IMOCA I'm pretty sure there are a number ways of recovering sufficient charge for the next turn. Heck they could have an electric emergency drive system that used the same batteries that were charged by regening off the prop when you need it to.

True... so perhaps I'll reconsider, when I'm the DIC. :P

Didn't find anything to substantiate what IMOCAs do for power, but this pic was too good not to post:

Capture.JPG.587ba9630a337baa056a82437f8b22e7.JPG

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12 hours ago, mako23 said:

How can you know this, that is speculation at its best. Mind due idle speculation with no evidence is the hallmark of this place so carry on. 

Well it is true I don't know this particular crop of Kiwi sailors, but is extrapolation based on chats with racing sailors from a lot of countries at various international events. Top racing sailors tend to respect one another with a few exceptions. So I think on stronger grounds than most of the bs posted on here

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16 hours ago, dullers said:

Are all 5 million scientists and sailors now?  While you maybe a very inventive nation building a fast sailing boat, it is not really the limits of design and Engineering. We dont need your scientists because we have our own who build things that go under water and can fire rockets into space while under water etc.That level of expertise in NZ does not exist. We do have the expertise to build a fast racing boat and it may not be as fast as yours, but I have yet to see your nuclear submarine.

How does bragging about a nuclear submarine translate into this thread or Ineos/BA capibility ?

14 hours ago, dullers said:

The ultimate fare weather fan. You are above charted drying height when it comes to being shallow.

IMO critical and shallow only valuing success is better than blind adoration failing to find any faults. If you can't/refuse to recognize problems how will you improve?

I have no stake in this game but its amusing how so many rational people can become so unhinged discussing a topic that they are attached to. Its not like you are actually a part of the teams.

 

re the BA leadership debate. Try comparing Spithill's dialogue with the public and onboard comms when they were getting trounced by ETNZ vs BA's comms with his team and communication with the public from last weeks races.... Even down 7-1 Spithill could still put on a brave face and motivate his team in an impossible situation while BA can't keep his tone positive on comms, lazily strolls from port to starboard after a failed tack while his Giles Scott scrambles as fast as he can, and to put it lightly did not have the best behavior in the post race press conferences.... Not trying to compare sailing ability or character but in terms of leadership qualities....

 

Also I still don't understand why Ineos dropped the aerodynamic concept of the deck from B1 that went on to get copied in Te Rehutai. That decision must have been from the sailing team. Ken Read mentioned that the reason they individualized the grinders was to free up the hand of the tactician, I wonder if the sail team had major input on other aspects of the design as well. 

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8 minutes ago, sailfly said:

How does bragging about a nuclear submarine translate into this thread or Ineos/BA capibility ?

IMO critical and shallow only valuing success is better than blind adoration failing to find any faults. If you can't/refuse to recognize problems how will you improve?

I have no stake in this game but its amusing how so many rational people can become so unhinged discussing a topic that they are attached to. Its not like you are actually a part of the teams.

 

re the BA leadership debate. Try comparing Spithill's dialogue with the public and onboard comms when they were getting trounced by ETNZ vs BA's comms with his team and communication with the public from last weeks races.... Even down 7-1 Spithill could still put on a brave face and motivate his team in an impossible situation while BA can't keep his tone positive on comms, lazily strolls from port to starboard after a failed tack while his Giles Scott scrambles as fast as he can, and to put it lightly did not have the best behavior in the post race press conferences.... Not trying to compare sailing ability or character but in terms of leadership qualities....

 

Also I still don't understand why Ineos dropped the aerodynamic concept of the deck from B1 that went on to get copied in Te Rehutai. That decision must have been from the sailing team. Ken Read mentioned that the reason they individualized the grinders was to free up the hand of the tactician, I wonder if the sail team had major input on other aspects of the design as well. 

Have a Happy Christmas with your loved ones and Friends.

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7 hours ago, dullers said:

Seeing as Christmas comes to NZ first, I wish  all  Kiwis a Happy Christmas with your loved ones and friends.

Same to you in about 4 hours. For many people who can’t be with their family due to COVID restrictions in England I wish them solace and they find some mirth in these trying times. 

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11 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Same to you in about 4 hours. For many people who can’t be with their family due to COVID restrictions in England I wish them solace and they find some mirth in these trying times. 

It's not only in England where people cannot travel to their relatives or loved ones. Denmark won't let me visit my parents either. But it's o.k., since it might help to contain the virus, and after all, this is not the time to be selfish.
Merry Christmas.

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41 minutes ago, Enzedel92 said:

SHOW ME A PIC OF THE OLD INEOS FOILS PLEASE.  I HAVE SEEN TWO OUT OF THE SIX

 

B1 had set one.  Here is a view with them testing set used in Xmas cup with the mysterious eagle wing foils on the starbd side. I say mysterious as the Italian folk reckoned they would be good in light winds.  So three sets - six foils.

 

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On 12/24/2020 at 4:13 AM, dullers said:

Are all 5 million scientists and sailors now?  While you maybe a very inventive nation building a fast sailing boat, it is not really the limits of design and Engineering. We dont need your scientists because we have our own who build things that go under water and can fire rockets into space while under water etc.That level of expertise in NZ does not exist. We do have the expertise to build a fast racing boat and it may not be as fast as yours, but I have yet to see your nuclear submarine.

Before you get to far along your "it's not rocket science" argument it might be worth noting...

The last time the U.K. put a rocket in orbit was 1971 and they had to launch it from Australia.

New Zealand is throwing something into orbit from a commercially operated spaceport every couple of months these days.

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1 hour ago, Enzedel92 said:

SHOW ME A PIC OF THE OLD INEOS FOILS PLEASE.  I HAVE SEEN TWO OUT OF THE SIX

 

B1 launched with a pair of these bulbed with small wings.

daY0AzI.jpg

Initially with external hinge but later pics show them missing.

I actually think they have 1 available, they only seem to have sailed with 1 of the cranked ones, never a full pair.

IMO their redemption can come from a return to these bulbed ones.

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Oh you're right, it did launch with a pair of the cranked ones -> they're definitely all out.

Ib0XAIm.jpg

 

The first ones not only lost the external hinges, they gained raked tips along the way.

JTl26Ll.jpg

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2 hours ago, Boybland said:

Before you get to far along your "it's not rocket science" argument it might be worth noting...

The last time the U.K. put a rocket in orbit was 1971 and they had to launch it from Australia.

New Zealand is throwing something into orbit from a commercially operated spaceport every couple of months these days.

Does it operate under water?

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1 hour ago, hoom said:

Oh you're right, it did launch with a pair of the cranked ones -> they're definitely all out.

Ib0XAIm.jpg

 

The first ones not only lost the external hinges, they gained raked tips along the way.

JTl26Ll.jpg

In what world was external hinges ever a good idea?

Unless running them internally increased the wetted area of the foil prohibitively you would expect internal hinges would be a lay down misere.

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3 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

It's not only in England where people cannot travel to their relatives or loved ones. Denmark won't let me visit my parents either. But it's o.k., since it might help to contain the virus, and after all, this is not the time to be selfish.
Merry Christmas.

Yes very good point, I wish everyone peace and  contentment EVERYWHERE In these trying times. 

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3 hours ago, hoom said:

B1 launched with a pair of these bulbed with small wings.

daY0AzI.jpg

Initially with external hinge but later pics show them missing.

I actually think they have 1 available, they only seem to have sailed with 1 of the cranked ones, never a full pair.

IMO their redemption can come from a return to these bulbed ones.

Thanks for this.  How many of InEOS 6 foils are identical?  Two?

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8 hours ago, dullers said:

Does it operate under water?

Yep, bottom of the  Marianas Trench

The All Blacks practice in them

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10 hours ago, hoom said:

B1 launched with a pair of these bulbed with small wings.

daY0AzI.jpg

Initially with external hinge but later pics show them missing.

I actually think they have 1 available, they only seem to have sailed with 1 of the cranked ones, never a full pair.

IMO their redemption can come from a return to these bulbed ones.

This image fascinates me.....there’s a massive wtf issue, why would you make smaller wings.  No one else seemed to do this. What made them think smaller wings were better. No wonder B1 had trouble getting on its foils. Every one else seemed to use  the box rule to maximize wing length (except ETNZ) I’m sure Ineos had their reasons, but they seemed to be on a different design planet when it comes to foils. 

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What if the primary issue to address is the hull / skeg (bustle) geometry ? and nothing to do with appendage configuration.

The “low” longitudinal prismatic hull form due to the volume distribution may be  what is the problem. The hull volume distribution  (below waterplane) on Ineos is notably different to the other 3 designs ~ this may affect take off criteria 

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3 hours ago, Southern Cross said:

What if the primary issue to address is the hull / skeg (bustle) geometry ? and nothing to do with appendage configuration.

The “low” longitudinal prismatic hull form due to the volume distribution may be  what is the problem. The hull volume distribution  (below waterplane) on Ineos is notably different to the other 3 designs ~ this may affect take off criteria 

Yeah but they can’t tack so imho it goes back to the foils

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19 hours ago, Boybland said:

Before you get to far along your "it's not rocket science" argument it might be worth noting...

The last time the U.K. put a rocket in orbit was 1971 and they had to launch it from Australia.

New Zealand is throwing something into orbit from a commercially operated spaceport every couple of months these days.

Not sure what bollocks you are trying to present,. But we don't launch from UK because of the way the earth rotates. But in terms of launching sattelites we have put 34 up in one night. 

The uk is one of the biggest manufacturers of satellites

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19 hours ago, hoom said:

B1 launched with a pair of these bulbed with small wings.

daY0AzI.jpg

Any chance someone has photos of the three sets of INEOS wings. It would be useful to see what they have and which ones are best to modify within the 20% rule as it seems clear they need more power (deeper mainsail) and more lift (wider wings).

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3 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

It’s Christmas Day and yet people still have time to shit talk a team..

Give it a rest maybe? 

 

Doesn't seem to be a whole bunch of shit talking to me. Mostly genuine discussions as to what is going wrong with them.

Anywhere, hope your  Xmas is a good one. 

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