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7 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

I think Ben has a lot of "presence and character" on the boat, he is the boss and there is only one, unlike Dean on AM. Now, is he captain Bligh ?

I've heard a bit of chatter that there is some "discomfort" within the crew over his leadership, but that may be just crap idle gossip.

In any event, I think it would be more helpful to use positive encourage instead. Maybe BA could benefit from a pre-race reefer?

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shes legit ... foil arm looks to be in the front end of the box ... opposite of all other teams ... what are we going to read into that?

ETNZ are probably favorites .....but win or lose....Team New Zealand have firmly established themselves as the all time great AC nation in the modern era.   From the time they first emerged, they have

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14 minutes ago, alphafb552 said:

No need, as long as the rabble in the engine room keeps their mouths shut, their heads down and grinding!

A couple of times in the press conference Ben has made clichéd remarks about the grinders being stupid. Then he catches himself and gives the pr line of all the team contributing.

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16 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

I've heard a bit of chatter that there is some "discomfort" within the crew over his leadership, but that may be just crap idle gossip.

In any event, I think it would be more helpful to use positive encourage instead. Maybe BA could benefit from a pre-race reefer?

From Magnus no doubt.. 

ffs, it’s one bad day, not a peep while they were winning from all the ‘one hears bull shit merchants’  

 

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4 minutes ago, marlowe said:

A couple of times in the press conference Ben has made clichéd remarks about the grinders being stupid. Then he catches himself and gives the pr line of all the team contributing.

He is bloody good mates with them, some for over 25 years so if you can’t have a joke wtf is wrong in the world 

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2 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

Could be. The communication could have been clearer.  The next race is scheduled for Tuesday (US/EUR).  Not sure how much tweaking can be done in that short a time frame.

Errr no it isn't... Next races are scheduled for today!

Glass houses...

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Just now, rh3000 said:

Errr no it isn't... Next races are scheduled for today!

Glass houses...

 

Just now, rh3000 said:

Errr no it isn't... Next races are scheduled for today!

Glass houses...

Nice try but a swing and a miss. I was responding to eyesailor and how he interpreted the 4-0 prediction.  He said that there was some off time to which I responded that the next races weren’t until Tuesday where I am; Wednesday where you are.  Context baby, context.

B)

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9 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

He is bloody good mates with them, some for over 25 years so if you can’t have a joke wtf is wrong in the world 

I'll take your word for it.

What did you make of him having a go at Giles for the duck? Seemed to me it was something best discussed after the race, rather than over coms at the time.

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8 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

 

Nice try but a swing and a miss. I was responding to eyesailor and how he interpreted the 4-0 prediction.  He said that there was some off time to which I responded that the next races weren’t until Tuesday where I am; Wednesday where you are.  Context baby, context.

B)

Could be. The communication could have been clearer.  

;)

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3 hours ago, Raptorsailor said:

I’m pretty sure they can sail with a deeper main. What surprised me the most is LR were NOT easing the main out of a tack/gybe and UK was. That’s really weird, and I bet there’s some pretty nice gains to be made from changing that. 

I am not sure if you are saying easing the main out of a tack/gybe is fast or slow. I think it is overrated. Seems like it is fast some of the time, but slow most of the time for me. Or at least that most people do it to an extent that is too much and end up slower than if they just go straight to their new trim as fast and smoothly, and as coordinated as possible.

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10 minutes ago, marlowe said:

I'll take your word for it.

What did you make of him having a go at Giles for the duck? Seemed to me it was something best discussed after the race, rather than over coms at the time.

You don’t need to take my word for it, Freddie carr, nick hutton, any of the U.K. guys go way back, other like joey Newton back to San Fran.

he didn’t have a go at him, if you listen to the coma he actually didn’t finish what he was saying, it was a remark to be sure that the error wasn’t repeated should there be another cross like that. 
 

would it be better leadership to say nothing have it happen again and then say after, “ yeah I was going to say something but didn’t want people on the internet to think I was being mean” 

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I am looking forward to the racing today. Not sure if this was posted or if everyone saw/heard it, but Ben served notice that they will be better today:

 

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I remember Sir Ben saying this twin skin is no better than a single skin main.  Seems that has come home to bite them.

Ability to create RM with the top at low speeds when the foils are not giving them much RM.  And create large camber right at the bottom to give them the most power to get up.  Is what they lack in low wind speeds.

Control of the the top to give them stability for snap tacks/gybes is also costing them dear?

But what would I know?  76yr laser sailor?

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31 minutes ago, nroose said:

I am looking forward to the racing today. Not sure if this was posted or if everyone saw/heard it, but Ben served notice that they will be better today:

 

(This link is directly to the moment when Ben says "Today we came up short. Tomorrow we won't.")

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15 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

I remember Sir Ben saying this twin skin is no better than a single skin main.  Seems that has come home to bite them.

Ability to create RM with the top at low speeds when the foils are not giving them much RM.  And create large camber right at the bottom to give them the most power to get up.  Is what they lack in low wind speeds.

Control of the the top to give them stability for snap tacks/gybes is also costing them dear?

But what would I know?  76yr laser sailor?

A quote that was nearly two years old.. well done 

 

and was in reference to comparing costs and practicalities of wing vs soft 

but hey you take what you want from it. 
 

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2 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

No doubt.  But getting snappy (R2, only a few seconds behind) makes me wonder how well he integrates with the rest of the crew besides Giles Scott.

It has been done to death max.

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2 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

No doubt.  But getting snappy (R2, only a few seconds behind) makes me wonder how well he integrates with the rest of the crew besides Giles Scott.

It has been done to death max. I was waiting until the Ben is no good leading .... Why not cut and paste all your old posts around Christmas regatta time..... 

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4 hours ago, marlowe said:

Maybe  INEOS were rattled by coming off the foils in the first start and so were too conservative with their choice of the bigger jib for the second race.

LR had a speed edge today but it's still close. Some people are calling this too early.

I agree, way to early to write anyone off but interesting that INEOS performed badly in two different wind conditions. 

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47 minutes ago, dullers said:

It has been done to death max. I was waiting until the Ben is no good leading .... Why not cut and paste all your old posts around Christmas regatta time..... 

I have no idea what you are talking about.

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1 hour ago, Kiwing said:

I remember Sir Ben saying this twin skin is no better than a single skin main.  Seems that has come home to bite them.

Ability to create RM with the top at low speeds when the foils are not giving them much RM.  And create large camber right at the bottom to give them the most power to get up.  Is what they lack in low wind speeds.

Control of the the top to give them stability for snap tacks/gybes is also costing them dear?

But what would I know?  76yr laser sailor?

Have lasers been around that long?

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1 hour ago, Paddywackery said:

I agree, way to early to write anyone off but interesting that INEOS performed badly in two different wind conditions. 

Wrong call on a sail so its not terminal.

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2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

You don’t need to take my word for it, Freddie carr, nick hutton, any of the U.K. guys go way back, other like joey Newton back to San Fran.

he didn’t have a go at him, if you listen to the coma he actually didn’t finish what he was saying, it was a remark to be sure that the error wasn’t repeated should there be another cross like that. 
 

would it be better leadership to say nothing have it happen again and then say after, “ yeah I was going to say something but didn’t want people on the internet to think I was being mean” 

Roger that.

Big boys been around together long enough.   No ego torching as I heard it.   Move on.

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51 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

Certainly feels like it while you’re sailing them....

hehehe, years ago(late 70s ish) round about equinox time generally the weekend before the feltex,  we'd load a couple of lasers on a trailer and take them up to hobsonville, launch them and get launched to stheliers, big breeze made it fun getting through the bridge and it took a bit of work keeping the boat under the rig , some spectacular aerial stuff and a lot of swimming

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5 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

After watching the stern camera angle video, it seems that BA gets a bit "edgy" with his crew at times, whereas JS/FB/MS etc all seemed quite cool together, and almost relaxed.

JS's pulse hardly broke 75bpm during the whole race. He was steering with one hand and rubber necking at the same time. Cool as!

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1 hour ago, Kiwing said:

Bought my laser second hand in1978, 132678 or something like that.

They were great fun.  I bought one for club events when I stopped sailing Paper Tigers.  Photo taken in the mid-80's at Lake Ohakuri, along with our eldest son and his Starling.

Geoff and Lyndon - Lake Ohakuri.jpg

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Still love lying on the lee with little breeze ghosting along keeping up with Kayaks. Or getting grandchildren out in a big breeze and having them head dipping while the rudder half down, hums - the sail is getting past it but it still is fun!

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14 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

Still love lying on the lee with little breeze ghosting along keeping up with Kayaks. Or getting grandchildren out in a big breeze and having them head dipping while the rudder half down, hums - the sail is getting past it but it still is fun!

I'd love to have a sailing dinghy again but at 73 with buggered knees, it's not a safe option.  My wife and I both have kayaks though and a Stabicraft for fishing.  My solo fun is a KTM 790 Duke motorcycle.

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2 minutes ago, mako23 said:

The wind it’s truly up today. It’s seems well over twenty knots at the moments 

Maybe the Italians won’t come out and play....it’s toooo windzy 

How the world has changed.  Years ago over twenty knots it was the  beginning of the fun. :)

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1 hour ago, kenergy said:

Today is their conditions, no excuses. 

What will you do if they make some?

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28 minutes ago, strider470 said:

How the world has changed.  Years ago over twenty knots it was the  beginning of the fun. :)

Years ago boats were not sailing at 50 knots

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5 hours ago, nroose said:

I am looking forward to the racing today. Not sure if this was posted or if everyone saw/heard it, but Ben served notice that they will be better today:

 

They'll need to be.

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25 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

They'll need to be.

Yeah if they don't come away with two wins in todays conditions, I'm not sure what else they can change at this stage? 

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10 hours ago, Cornish Viper said:

Prada seem to have an “extra deep” mode for their mainsail. If you look from 17 mins 45 seconds ,it changes dramatically  

 

 

That 'extra deep' mode kept them on the foils before the start and effectively won them the race...

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3 hours ago, sfigone said:

JS's pulse hardly broke 75bpm during the whole race. He was steering with one hand and rubber necking at the same time. Cool as!

Shows how shit AM was.  At times it looked like Barker could barely hold the wheel steady.

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1 hour ago, SCARECROW said:

Shows how shit AM was.  At times it looked like Barker could barely hold the wheel steady.

OTOH, AM was ahead of LR when they were knocked over.

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1 hour ago, SCARECROW said:

 At times it looked like Barker could barely hold the wheel steady.

Absolutly, and even seemingly using all his strength. contrarily to Jimmy and Ben. They clearly had some kind of design problem.

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34 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Absolutly, and even seemingly using all his strength. contrarily to Jimmy and Ben. They clearly had some kind of design problem.

Terry Hutchinson responded to a question about this, that they had an oscillation issue with the rudder foil.

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4 hours ago, GeeJay said:

I'd love to have a sailing dinghy again but at 73 with buggered knees, it's not a safe option.  My wife and I both have kayaks though and a Stabicraft for fishing.  My solo fun is a KTM 790 Duke motorcycle.

The Scalpel certainly is a great bike eh. Love mine.

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Balls laid out for a kiwi gloat.  Will be out until next race and a decision will then be made to leave them out for further abuse.  

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44 minutes ago, dullers said:

Balls laid out for a kiwi gloat.  Will be out until next race and a decision will then be made to leave them out for further abuse.  

Umm....it's the Italians who've been stomping on your nads.....

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2 hours ago, dullers said:

Balls laid out for a kiwi gloat.  Will be out until next race and a decision will then be made to leave them out for further abuse.  

Hmmmmmmmmmmm....... that rodger seems tor follow everywhere

H-Pugwash-742x557.jpg

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2 hours ago, GeeJay said:

Sure is - makes me laugh every time I ride it.  My 18 month review: https://geoffjames.blogspot.com/2020/09/the-ktm-790-at-18-months-progress-report.html 

Nice review GJ. I’ve got a BMW K1300S as my two up touring machine and have the KTM as the nimble hooligans ride. Have cleaned up the back end with a tail tidy, removed the rear foot pegs and back seat. 

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3 hours ago, dullers said:

Balls laid out for a kiwi gloat.  Will be out until next race and a decision will then be made to leave them out for further abuse.  

As a Kiwi/Pom I’m finding nothing to gloat about. Just a sense of frustration with how the boat is being outsailed by Prada by better crew work and not boat speed 

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1.13.20 on. The crash. Trying to work out why they wheelied on a simple manouvre

Ben Giles and Bleds don't change sides in prestart. Ben stayed on port wheel. He called the gybe while steering on port and Giles furiously calling time and distances. 

They gybe. Ben calls your wheel. Giles also calls my pitch. 2 boards down still, with a hard round up. 

Ben then calls board up and instantly goes to cross. As soon as the windward board comes up the boat heels then wheelies. Ben nearly wiped off the stern. Did Ben push the button when he shouldn't? Was Giles not on top of pitch when they lost windward board RM? Did the flight controllers not adjust flaps? I bet by the time they finished the long tow home they knew. 

Only clue was Ben said fuck, not fucking hell Giles. 

So it seems their change of roles doesn't work well cf LR twins. 

Let's hope ETNZ have their shit more sorted than this come March with a unilateral helm

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Prada Cup Final Day 2


Twas not the Valentines gift we Brits were hoping for. Seems to me Il capo is getting a tad rattled on the starts by the Italianos.
Give them an inch and they win by a 760m margin.

Is it me or is the LR crew getting sweeter sail trim shapes?

Quote of the day Ken re: LR “sharing is caring…”

Hopefully for Ben and Ineos this goes down like the 34th cup but not from a 7-0 deficit! Hold steady… boys… hold steady.
 

rys_01.png.febdf63f503746c5ad972578affba909.png

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5 hours ago, Salty Seacock said:

Hahahahaha fucking losers. Sir chokes alot fails again. 

Now that is proper gloating. Stomp my balls.

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2 hours ago, mako23 said:

As a Kiwi/Pom I’m finding nothing to gloat about. Just a sense of frustration with how the boat is being outsailed by Prada by better crew work and not boat speed 

That is just ball tickling.  Salty Sea cock knows how to ball stomp.

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3 hours ago, 167149 said:

Hmmmmmmmmmmm....... that rodger seems tor follow everywhere

H-Pugwash-742x557.jpg

More of a ball tickle. They are not laid out for pleasure today. Balls will be withdrawn sometime Wednesday. We shall see if they reappear on Thursday.

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35 minutes ago, dullers said:

More of a ball tickle. They are not laid out for pleasure today. Balls will be withdrawn sometime Wednesday. We shall see if they reappear on Thursday.

Well don't get them caught in the zipper. May I also recommend you don't go near any schools. 

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2 hours ago, minimumfuss said:

Well don't get them caught in the zipper. May I also recommend you don't go near any schools. 

Covid balls mean I may have to leave them out for longer now. They can hack it.

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Racing delayed....this might entertain for a moment.....From the Dear Husband column:

 

An inside look at the preparations on race day and the families behind the team at INEOS TEAM UK written by Georgie Ainslie.

A tough day at the office yesterday but that is sport. Sometimes it is as simple as you win some, you lose some. It never ceases to amaze me how strong this team is mentally as well as physically. They are the same win or lose. No overreaction to going 2-0 down, just a day that didn’t go their way. Today is a new day.

Like Ben reminds Bellatrix repeatedly over a game of Snap, ‘it’s OK to lose darling, just don’t make a habit of it’!

 

m9440_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1 ALL SMILES FROM THE TEAM AT DOCK OUT AHEAD OF DAY 2 OF THE PRADA CUP
© D WILKO

So today we reset and go again and look to level the scores. What yesterday showed us is just how competitive this PRADA Cup Final is going to be. We always knew that first race was going to be problematic for BRITANNIA in next to nothing wind conditions, but the second race was a much better read on how this thing is going to play out with barely anything in it between the two teams. 

 

m9442_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1 THUMBS UP FROM BEN AINSLIE AHEAD OF DAY 2 OF THE PRADA CUP FINAL
© D WILKO

No one should be under any illusions that to win this event and face the Kiwis in the America’s Cup the team will need to sail out of their skins and the boat will need to be 100% reliable throughout the series to beat the Italians. It’s a big ask of man and machine but it’s what the Cup is all about and why we love the unique challenge of it.

Talking about love, Happy Valentine’s Day everyone. I woke up, thanks to Bellatrix, wearing a giant chocolate heart on my face. Thank you my darling! Shout out to one of our grinders, Matt Gotrel’s wife Katie who is expecting their first child back in the UK any day now.

 

m9438_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1 INEOS TEAM UK GRINDER MATT GOTREL
© HARRY KH

We are thinking of you Katie and sending you so much love from NZ. A word of warning, before the racing got underway the boys were compiling a birthing playlist for you in the gym which is as awful as it sounds. I tried to influence it but without much success so if Salt-N-Pepa’s “Push It” features I can only apologise for not trying harder.

Love to all our families back home, let’s hope today there’s more than just race wins to be happy about.

By Georgie Ainslie 

 

m9439_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1 THERE WAS PLENTY OF SUPPORT FOR THE TEAM AT DOCK OUT
© D WILKO
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8 minutes ago, Xlot said:

No mention of the nanny?

 

Ben is a bit old for a nanny.  The only person who is grown up and still has his nanny is Prince Charles.

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11 minutes ago, Xlot said:

No mention of the nanny?

 

Ben is to old for a nanny. The only adult i know who still needs a nanny is Prince Charles.

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51 minutes ago, nav said:

Racing delayed....this might entertain for a moment.....From the Dear Husband column:

 

An inside look at the preparations on race day and the families behind the team at INEOS TEAM UK written by Georgie Ainslie.

A tough day at the office yesterday but that is sport. Sometimes it is as simple as you win some, you lose some. It never ceases to amaze me how strong this team is mentally as well as physically. They are the same win or lose. No overreaction to going 2-0 down, just a day that didn’t go their way. Today is a new day.

Like Ben reminds Bellatrix repeatedly over a game of Snap, ‘it’s OK to lose darling, just don’t make a habit of it’!

 

m9440_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1 ALL SMILES FROM THE TEAM AT DOCK OUT AHEAD OF DAY 2 OF THE PRADA CUP
© D WILKO

So today we reset and go again and look to level the scores. What yesterday showed us is just how competitive this PRADA Cup Final is going to be. We always knew that first race was going to be problematic for BRITANNIA in next to nothing wind conditions, but the second race was a much better read on how this thing is going to play out with barely anything in it between the two teams. 

 

m9442_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1 THUMBS UP FROM BEN AINSLIE AHEAD OF DAY 2 OF THE PRADA CUP FINAL
© D WILKO

No one should be under any illusions that to win this event and face the Kiwis in the America’s Cup the team will need to sail out of their skins and the boat will need to be 100% reliable throughout the series to beat the Italians. It’s a big ask of man and machine but it’s what the Cup is all about and why we love the unique challenge of it.

Talking about love, Happy Valentine’s Day everyone. I woke up, thanks to Bellatrix, wearing a giant chocolate heart on my face. Thank you my darling! Shout out to one of our grinders, Matt Gotrel’s wife Katie who is expecting their first child back in the UK any day now.

 

m9438_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1 INEOS TEAM UK GRINDER MATT GOTREL
© HARRY KH

We are thinking of you Katie and sending you so much love from NZ. A word of warning, before the racing got underway the boys were compiling a birthing playlist for you in the gym which is as awful as it sounds. I tried to influence it but without much success so if Salt-N-Pepa’s “Push It” features I can only apologise for not trying harder.

Love to all our families back home, let’s hope today there’s more than just race wins to be happy about.

By Georgie Ainslie 

 

m9439_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1 THERE WAS PLENTY OF SUPPORT FOR THE TEAM AT DOCK OUT
© D WILKO

Reminds me of her cringy stuff in Bermuda jeez

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1 hour ago, dullers said:

Ben is a bit old for a nanny.  The only person who is grown up and still has his nanny is Prince Charles.

Rees Mogg.

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So, just managed to listen to the presser. That boundary violation was 3 cm? Anyone know what level of confidence they have about the location of the boats to that level of accuracy? For my work, I used calibrated, accurate GPS devices, and it never really seemed to be quite as accurate as it was supposed to be some significant percent of the time. Perhaps they have listened a little too closely to the sales guy for the GPS vendor?

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Just now, nav said:

^ It's not a real fence you know.....as long as the boat and the boundary are miss-plotted by the same amount.....all good.

 

Sure, but I am still skeptical. In general, in my experience, the accuracy is not good enough. For something moving in a straight line, the accuracy is very high most of the time. Not so much for something that is not moving. And certainly some percentage of the time, the error of two devices near each other are not the same magnitude or direction or within the expected accuracy. I guess if we just decide that the rules say that the system is the judge, that is OK. But it would be good to know what the error rate is, and that would inform the risk/reward decision making.

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6 minutes ago, nroose said:

So, just managed to listen to the presser. That boundary violation was 3 cm? Anyone know what level of confidence they have about the location of the boats to that level of accuracy? For my work, I used calibrated, accurate GPS devices, and it never really seemed to be quite as accurate as it was supposed to be some significant percent of the time. Perhaps they have listened a little too closely to the sales guy for the GPS vendor?

I would imagine they tested and validated the accuracy prior to the event. That said accuracy is somewhat dependent on satellite geometry, weather, solar conditions etc.

 

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16 minutes ago, nroose said:

Sure, but I am still skeptical. In general, in my experience, the accuracy is not good enough. For something moving in a straight line, the accuracy is very high most of the time. Not so much for something that is not moving. And certainly some percentage of the time, the error of two devices near each other are not the same magnitude or direction or within the expected accuracy. I guess if we just decide that the rules say that the system is the judge, that is OK. But it would be good to know what the error rate is, and that would inform the risk/reward decision making.

It's not 2 devices it's one. All the info the crew has as to where the boundary is comes from off the boat. Look at your screen if it helps but use the lights as a last resource if all else fails, because that is based on the same info the umpires see.

It's like a blind man reading brail - they can't see the virtual perimeter of the boat, the 115m warning line or the virtual boundary - but they all both defined using the same system

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1 hour ago, nroose said:

Sure, but I am still skeptical. In general, in my experience, the accuracy is not good enough. For something moving in a straight line, the accuracy is very high most of the time. Not so much for something that is not moving. And certainly some percentage of the time, the error of two devices near each other are not the same magnitude or direction or within the expected accuracy. I guess if we just decide that the rules say that the system is the judge, that is OK. But it would be good to know what the error rate is, and that would inform the risk/reward decision making.

The systems will be based on DGPS which is considerably more accurate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_GPS

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11 minutes ago, LOA said:

The systems will be based on DGPS which is considerably more accurate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_GPS

Nope, they use RTK.
RTK gives you ±2 cm in x,y,z  (10Hz or more update rate)

"It uses measurements of the phase of the signal's carrier wave in addition to the information content of the signal"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_kinematic

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