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2 hours ago, strider470 said:

I sometimes shout to the crew myself, and I am nobody :D 

to quote a friend...." my wifes husband does shit like that"

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shes legit ... foil arm looks to be in the front end of the box ... opposite of all other teams ... what are we going to read into that?

ETNZ are probably favorites .....but win or lose....Team New Zealand have firmly established themselves as the all time great AC nation in the modern era.   From the time they first emerged, they have

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5 hours ago, Chris UK said:

 

FYI, there's a pretty constant stream on these threads that Ben is arrogant, conceited, an asshole etc, but what I see is just cultural difference.

I wouldn't worry about it. All top sports performers on the planet are highly motivated individuals infused with stratospheric self-confidence, mistakenly perceived as arrogance by competitors and armchair critics. But some sports codes do require a high degree of selfishness and some degree of arrogance to be good - golf being a prime example. Being accused of arrogance by one's opponent is as good an admission as any that the opponent is already on the way to accepting being beaten!!

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so if there's a miraculous turnaround...we'll be looking in Dave Brailsford's direction.

keywords:

Marginal gains

Jiffy Bag

Froome aero tuck

Blowing up the Giro

 

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5 minutes ago, shebeen said:

so if there's a miraculous turnaround...we'll be looking in Dave Brailsford's direction.

keywords:

Marginal gains

Jiffy Bag

Froome aero tuck

Blowing up the Giro

 

Not pass the Triamcinolone then? 

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6 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

more top footage from Justin 

the two tacks from 6,30 onwards look decent and smooth, better than the previous days footage to the naked eye.

 

boom end looks different too 

#249 INEOS Team UK | Eve Of Continuation Of Prada Cup Finals | 19 Feb 2021 - YouTube

They seem to be flying higher and with a bit less bow down pitch, than they used to?

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18 hours ago, Indio said:

I wouldn't worry about it. All top sports performers on the planet are highly motivated individuals infused with stratospheric self-confidence, mistakenly perceived as arrogance by competitors and armchair critics. But some sports codes do require a high degree of selfishness and some degree of arrogance to be good - golf being a prime example. Being accused of arrogance by one's opponent is as good an admission as any that the opponent is already on the way to accepting being beaten!!

Nice.

I agree, Ben is highly motivated and very competitive.  You dont get to be the most successful Olympian in sailing of all time (achieved in the competitive modern era) just through talent alone. Extraordinary talent accompanied by a work ethic and competitive drive that is 2nd to none.  When not involved in the competition, he seems a reasonably agreeable person with decent values.

What a shame that we dont get to see a show down between Ainslie and Burling in two reasonably evenly matched foiling 75s, now that would have been the race of the decade!  Two talents of our lifetimes head to head would have been fun to watch.   I dont think Rita is going to be competitive in time to reverse the Prada cup .   Maybe next time.

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14 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Nice.

I agree, Ben is highly motivated and very competitive.  You dont get to be the most successful Olympian in sailing of all time (achieved in the competitive modern era) just through talent alone. Extraordinary talent accompanied by a work ethic and competitive drive that is 2nd to none.  When not involved in the competition, he seems a reasonably agreeable person with decent values.

What a shame that we dont get to see a show down between Ainslie and Burling in two reasonably evenly matched foiling 75s, now that would have been the race of the decade!  Two talents of our lifetimes head to head would have been fun to watch.   I dont think Rita is going to be competitive in time to reverse the Prada cup .   Maybe next time.

I'm not counting my beers just yet.

If BA gets Rita over the start line ahead of LR and is ahead at the first tack....  they have a good chance of a win.

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1 hour ago, EYESAILOR said:

Nice.

I agree, Ben is highly motivated and very competitive.  You dont get to be the most successful Olympian in sailing of all time (achieved in the competitive modern era) just through talent alone. Extraordinary talent accompanied by a work ethic and competitive drive that is 2nd to none.  When not involved in the competition, he seems a reasonably agreeable person with decent values.

What a shame that we dont get to see a show down between Ainslie and Burling in two reasonably evenly matched foiling 75s, now that would have been the race of the decade!  Two talents of our lifetimes head to head would have been fun to watch.   I dont think Rita is going to be competitive in time to reverse the Prada cup .   Maybe next time.

Is Burling really a 'talent of our lifetimes' yet? I see him as top tier of his generation, but not necessarily top of all time caliber yet. 

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1 hour ago, EYESAILOR said:

Nice.

I agree, Ben is highly motivated and very competitive.  You dont get to be the most successful Olympian in sailing of all time (achieved in the competitive modern era) just through talent alone. Extraordinary talent accompanied by a work ethic and competitive drive that is 2nd to none.  When not involved in the competition, he seems a reasonably agreeable person with decent values.

What a shame that we dont get to see a show down between Ainslie and Burling in two reasonably evenly matched foiling 75s, now that would have been the race of the decade!  Two talents of our lifetimes head to head would have been fun to watch.   I dont think Rita is going to be competitive in time to reverse the Prada cup .   Maybe next time.

Might get some of what you wish in a few months with SailGP, and throw in Nathan, Jimmy and Tom should be a good one.

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2 hours ago, MastaVonBlasta said:

Yes, there's something new below the clew end

Screenshot_20210219-162527-01.jpeg.64b7f73d6e8bf2e11237e111868f802a.jpeg

Also no visible outhauls for each skin. 
And there is now a batten just above the boom that appears to have some ‘fitting’ just visible in the slot? (Screw drive battens like ETNZ maybe?)

compared to this in their last race 

 

7284919D-8A54-4758-B7AC-83513FEA74B2.jpeg

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3 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

My lamps are not what they used to be but did anyone think that the foil lift was slower?And leeching on the headsail?

Not apparently using the LR double lift a la Mozzy (yet!).

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The declared yacht configuration must include the identity and version of the:
(a) hull;
(b) foils, including foil arm stocks, foil arm fairings, foil wings, and foilflaps;
(c) rudder, including the rudder upper and rudder lower;
(d) mast tube.

There is more detail in the class rule, but yes I believe they are allowed to use it.

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43 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Not apparently using the LR double lift a la Mozzy (yet!).

There has been some very different techniques being tried over the last few days, some very slow multi stage lifts and then the footage from yesterday from Justin that just looked coordinated smooth and no loss of speed.

 

that footage was shot five mins before Prada sailed up the same piece of water so a decent comparison between the two in pretty light air 

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2 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Looks more outboard than outhaul to me....

9140BDCB-27E1-4706-ACA7-D8A25BB128FE.jpeg.67f44c10f68b6c6e32ce48a7a489474f.jpeg

That's exactly what it looks like and a fish finder at the rear :P or the petrol tank from an old seagull outboard.

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2 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

That's exactly what it looks like and a fish finder at the rear :P or the petrol tank from an old seagull outboard.

There are seagulls and then there are seagulls....

0B401811-F131-4206-A632-39F291ACCF94.jpeg.694bc6b7dafb47802269be59a92a5712.jpeg

 

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Boom end looks completely new. Maybe the clews are directly attached to the boom rather than ‘traditional’ outhauls running via a sheeve on the end. 
also that skirt looks like its hiding something that used to be a main sheet. Is there a ram under there?

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3 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

I'm not counting my beers just yet.

If BA gets Rita over the start line ahead of LR and is ahead at the first tack....  they have a good chance of a win.

Yeah true, hopefully he's watched Mozzys video on it a few times at this stage 

 

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2 hours ago, buckdouger said:

Is Burling really a 'talent of our lifetimes' yet? I see him as top tier of his generation, but not necessarily top of all time caliber yet. 

Fair enough....top tier talent of his generation.

But he has come closer to the triple crown than almost anyone else.

Olympic Gold

Americas Cup

RTW race (formerly volvo, formerly Whitbread)

But yes Nathan vs Ben vs Petey vs Sling vs Jimmy will be fun provided they can bring first class crew. The nationality thang is all very well but for just one event, let them bring the best crew they can put together and have at it.

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11 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Fair enough....top tier talent of his generation.

But he has come closer to the triple crown than almost anyone else.

Olympic Gold

Americas Cup

RTW race (formerly volvo, formerly Whitbread)

But yes Nathan vs Ben vs Petey vs Sling vs Jimmy will be fun provided they can bring first class crew. The nationality thang is all very well but for just one event, let them bring the best crew they can put together and have at it.

Well it's really only US and Japan that may not be able to have all 6 nationals? The SeditionweaselGP blurbs about females said one would be chosen to rotate in an observational/operational role Season 2. https://sailgp.com/general/gender-equity/

So they added a body on the boat. Wonder what mods they made to compensate? 

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30 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Looking a bit light. Bet Ben now wishes he had not supported ACE and gone for racing yesterday in good breeze.

Yup and the ACE option of the 26th would not have provided him with any respite wind wise.

185718773_ScreenShot2021-02-20at10_36_17AM.thumb.png.92f73617fce2619e704e4d26e7e36177.png

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1 hour ago, winchfodder said:

Looking a bit light. Bet Ben now wishes he had not supported ACE and gone for racing yesterday in good breeze.

He didn't get a vote so his opinion didn't matter  in wether they raced yesterday or not. 
 

the only ones who’s opinion mattered were the COR and ETNZ/ACE 

 

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3 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

He didn't get a vote so his opinion didn't matter  in wether they raced yesterday or not. 
 

the only ones who’s opinion mattered were the COR and ETNZ/ACE 

 

What was interesting was that Simmer represented INEOS in that meeting. 

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7 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

What was interesting was that Simmer represented INEOS in that meeting. 

 Dalton represented ETNZ.

Simmer represented Ineos.

Coincidentally they are each CEO of their respective teams but the common factor is that they are both called "Grant" and this was designed to confuse the Italians.

 ACE "So Grant do you agree with Grant?"

Italians " Que?"

 

No obviously both teams were represented by their CEO rather than sailors. The job of the CEO is to run this kind of stuff. I dont think any sailors were present.

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6 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

Who is Simmer, Mozzy?

Grant Simmer, Chief Executive Officer of Team Ineos.

Navigator on Australia 2 which lifted the cup for the first time from NYYC. Winner of 4 ACs and involved in almost every cup of the last gazillion years.

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2 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Grant Simmer, Chief Executive Officer of Team Ineos.

Navigator on Australia 2 which lifted the cup for the first time from NYYC. Winner of 4 ACs and involved in almost every cup of the last gazillion years.

In other words: a fucking AC legend

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2 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Grant Simmer, Chief Executive Officer of Team Ineos.

Navigator on Australia 2 which lifted the cup for the first time from NYYC. Winner of 4 ACs and involved in almost every cup of the last gazillion years.

Thanks Eyesailor, impressive CV.

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6 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

No obviously both teams were represented by their CEO rather than sailors. The job of the CEO is to run this kind of stuff. I dont think any sailors were present.

Exactly, just flagging it for balance to the 'Ben does everything' narrative. 

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17 minutes ago, NSP said:

In other words: a fucking AC legend

Yup.

Really admirable guy

1983, Navigator on board Australia 2 which really started a new era in AC history by taking the cup from the NYYC for the first time after 113 years of unsuccessful challenges.  First challenger to win the AC ever.

1987 Navigator on Australia 4 which did not win the defender selection trials (Those were the days when the team winning the cup didnt mean you defended it . The defending club held defender selection trials much like the challenger series today)

2000 Head of Design for Alinghi which won the cup in 2003 and successfully defended in 2007. Two more Victories.  Part of the ill fated 2010 DoG defense.

2013 and 2017 ACs he was general Manager at Oracle. One victory One defeat. I understand Ben got to appreciate his management skills in the 2013 series when Ben was sailing for Oracle.

He is the guy you want in the room, advocating your position. I think it was probably fairly clear that the rules set out the racing schedule and not much Grant could do other than support ACE request but probably knew it would not fly.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Fair enough....top tier talent of his generation.

But he has come closer to the triple crown than almost anyone else.

Olympic Gold

Americas Cup

RTW race (formerly volvo, formerly Whitbread)

But yes Nathan vs Ben vs Petey vs Sling vs Jimmy will be fun provided they can bring first class crew. The nationality thang is all very well but for just one event, let them bring the best crew they can put together and have at it.

 Basher Ben Nathan and Slingsby don't do offshore from memory leaving Pistol Pete as leader of the pack.

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7 hours ago, DavidYacht said:

I guess American Magic might have performed better with some support from US Postal

How would shooting people in the street help?

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7 hours ago, MastaVonBlasta said:

Yes, there's something new below the clew end

Screenshot_20210219-162527-01.jpeg.64b7f73d6e8bf2e11237e111868f802a.jpeg

Outboard + fuel tank?

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38 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

Exactly, just flagging it for balance to the 'Ben does everything' narrative. 

Yeah Ive pushed back on that a couple of times. Ben has delegated a lot to Grant.

Ben does have more of a role beyond driver than Burling or Jimmy/Bruno but did not spread him self as thin as Terry Hutch who was grinder/tactician and very hands on manager of AM.

Ben's title is Team Principal as well as Skipper and it is clear he has a major role working with their backer and is involved in various leadership decisions but he wisely and quickly reached out to Grant to hire him as CEO to run everything. But I believe Grant reports to Ben, not Radcliffe (Im not sure of that). Anyway, its pretty clear that Ben leaves a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of coordinating deigns teams, shore teams logistics etc etc to Grant and his team so that Ben can focus on the sailing.  But I think Ben gets a thorough debrief on the decisions and consulted on anything that affects performance,

Burling is helm, not skipper and that leaves Peter free to just focus on sailing , Much more akin to a Formula One driving role.

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56 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Grant Simmer, Chief Executive Officer of Team Ineos.

Navigator on Australia 2 which lifted the cup for the first time from NYYC. Winner of 4 ACs and involved in almost every cup of the last gazillion years.

And the technology from their revolutionary keel trickled down to women's sanitary products a decade or so later...

1*DdsL1DDnRpSVKY5LIi_CHQ.png

Or maybe my cat made that up.

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3 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Boom end + handle to adjust clew.

You're no fun... 8)

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5 hours ago, 45Roller said:

Yeah true, hopefully he's watched Mozzys video on it a few times at this stage

Oh yeah, that was for Giles, who has to learn "apparent wind sailing 101" so he doesn't "make a rookie mistake"!  :rolleyes:

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To all Ineos fans, congratulations. A convincing win through good tactics and slick moves. 

We need more of this from the lads.

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28 minutes ago, Salty Seacock said:

To all Ineos fans, congratulations. A convincing win through good tactics and slick moves. 

We need more of this from the lads.

Yup. They will need to sail all their races like that if they want to win this thing. They can't afford to trade victories like they did today.

The boats are pretty even with a possible overall edge to LR but certainly INEOS could win it if they up their tactics game.

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I think so too. I do think Ben is a better sailor than Jimmy. That is, today's sailor, as yesterday is history. Let's see if he can build on this and give Jimbo a taste of his own medicine. 

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56 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Yup. They will need to sail all their races like that if they want to win this thing. They can't afford to trade victories like they did today.

The boats are pretty even with a possible overall edge to LR but certainly INEOS could win it if they up their tactics game.

Yes.  Congratulations to team INEOS. They proved they can win when they sa il at their level. I wonder if their boat may even have the edge with more breeze. 

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Onner hware onner iz dew:

Prada mayd orlmost no mistayks in a breez hwitch sooted them: and yet Ineos wun.

Well dun, and abowt tym.

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9 hours ago, NSP said:

In other words: a fucking AC legend

 

8 hours ago, winchfodder said:

Not so looking hot at the moment.

Get off your crack pipe you moron.....

You clearly don't know anything about anyone, and cannot even construct a put down with the words in the correct order. You are a credit to your "Mom", just not as much a credit as Grant Simmer is to his........

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1513203444572.jpg.b73975cd285d2f3e6be22c1477be5b30.jpg

Prada Cup Final Day 3

Well, well, well… we hang onto our Brit cup dreams by our foil tips.

BIG congrats to Ben, Gilo and the lads, as we finally chalk-up one point…yeah!

Quote of the day Nathan: “Luna Rossa suckered Ben in at the start line…”

And the first race Jimmy did indeed, going full on Spitbull. However as Ben has oft quipped if INEOS does get ahead on start plays - they have a real chance of winning, ergo race two.

IMO if it’s another light air day tomorrow atop the Hauraki, the overall boat platform advantage still lies with the handbags.

Game on for Domenchie to hold another weekend at it 5-3 though will punt it at a more likely 6-2 to the Italians, as the wind gods forecast isn't in our favour.


rys_01.png.7b4eec3f53eaf794b434a6873bc26a20.png

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From an INEOS point of view they really really needed that one.

I think they probably need both races tomorrow. LR looked to be more likely to regain the lead in the last race than INEOS have in any of the other races. I don't think LR will be feeling any discomfort yet...

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4 minutes ago, lukepiewalker said:

I think they probably need both races tomorrow.

Yeah, by the looks of things Tues and Weds are borderline too windy so they really need all four now to make it 5-5. 

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9 minutes ago, KingMonkey said:

Yeah, by the looks of things Tues and Weds are borderline too windy so they really need all four now to make it 5-5. 

So it gets to 5-5 , wind is then too high to get a race off as the wind limits were dropped, INEOS goes through.. all’s fair in love n war. 
 

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58 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

So it gets to 5-5 , wind is then too high to get a race off as the wind limits were dropped, INEOS goes through.. all’s fair in love n war. 
 

I know for the RRs if it was equal points the winner of the most recent race would advance but is it a similar rule for the Prada final?

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Ineos have an almost insurmountable task.

In a boat that is slower in lighter conditions and just about equal in other conditions , they have to win every race. 

Im not a betting man but..........

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4 minutes ago, IPLore said:

Ineos have an almost insurmountable task.

In a boat that is slower in lighter conditions and just about equal in other conditions , they have to win every race. 

Im not a betting man but..........

Time to get Herbie.

Worked in San Fran.

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5 minutes ago, marlowe said:

RRs

It’s the RRS Ie racing rules of sailin that give the tie to the last winner. 
 

Anyway, hope would be a fine thing but yeah there would be a fuck load of karma in the unlikely event of that happening.

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I tried to skim the thread for the answer so sorry if this has been asked 50,000 times before ..... Watching Ben’s interview last night after the race the vents under Ineos were really apparent. Have we found out what these are for ? I watched the footage of tacks and roundings and it does not appear that they are discharging water, what are they for? 

4889E8E0-E56B-4445-BBAE-D160734D608C.jpeg

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4 hours ago, IPLore said:

Ineos have an almost insurmountable task.

In a boat that is slower in lighter conditions and just about equal in other conditions , they have to win every race. 

Im not a betting man but..........

Winning a start more than once every 6 races might be a place to begin  

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Thanks - So the water ballasted maxi I sailed on we discharged above the waterline why have them there ? Gravity vs. having a pump? Is the water discharged coming through the arms ? You certainly would not be pumping in...  

 

Just saw the other new thread - gravity fed cockpit drain apparently.

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There is a rule whereby each cockpit has to be capable of discharge a specific volume of water in a set time. As a safety measure should a boat dive and get swamped. There was some speculation they could also be adding some aero benefit but it has never been proven/agreed on here :)  
There is no water ballast. There is no pumping of water anywhere. Only pumping is hydraulic fluid by the grinders or foil cant system. 

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11 minutes ago, ed__miller said:

There is a rule whereby each cockpit has to be capable of discharge a specific volume of water in a set time. As a safety measure should a boat dive and get swamped. There was some speculation they could also be adding some aero benefit but it has never been proven/agreed on here :)  
There is no water ballast. There is no pumping of water anywhere. Only pumping is hydraulic fluid by the grinders or foil cant system. 

Kind of interesting though. Since this is obviously post race, and I don't suppose they got swamped seconds before.... ?

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10 hours ago, ed__miller said:

There is a rule whereby each cockpit has to be capable of discharge a specific volume of water in a set time. As a safety measure should a boat dive and get swamped. There was some speculation they could also be adding some aero benefit but it has never been proven/agreed on here :)  
 

Interesting that Reed said that air is channeled through the hull in the broadcast today.

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Just scuttle Rita out past Rangitoto somewhere... Save shipping her back to the UK...

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A message to the Brits in the Channel, all is not lost Ineos seems keen to back another challenge. You had some bad luck with a period of very light winds. You were also beaten by an outfit who’s been playing this game since 1997. LR was a better boat sailed by a better crew. However the difference isn’t night and day. There were some problems in Team GB but that can be analysed and discussed another day. 
All in all a worthwhile effort by Ineos. 

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