Priscilla 2,800 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla 2,800 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 Interesting collection at the Viaduct. Frackers Sherpa Adix whose owner Jaime Botin is facing jail time for illegally exporting a Picasso and Severine ex Petite Lande aluminium Alden 54 schooner owned by Marcelino Botin and one of my all time favourites. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jaysper 1,264 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 9 minutes ago, Priscilla said: Interesting collection at the Viaduct. Frackers Sherpa Adix whose owner Jaime Botin is facing jail time for illegally exporting a Picasso and Severine ex Petite Lande aluminium Alden 54 schooner owned by Marcelino Botin and one of my all time favourites. Whilst not as large or practical for sure, more attractive by light years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla 2,800 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 20 minutes ago, jaysper said: Fuck it's an ugly piece of shit. What a complete dog’s breakfast the exterior helm station is you wouldn’t be able to see past the chimney whilst in reverse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
accnick 1,732 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 9 minutes ago, Priscilla said: What a complete dog’s breakfast the exterior helm station is you wouldn’t be able to see past the chimney whilst in reverse. That's what walkie-talkies and rear-view cameras are for. Get with the program! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla 2,800 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 Bow sprite must mean they have a Code 0 onboard... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
amc 101 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Priscilla said: That Royal box protruding from both sides of the of the hull would prevent a lot of docking manoeuvres maybe Jim the Fracker has whopper fenders makes the strakes a bit of macho look I’m a workboat so I must be tuff wank. They look removable at least I bet Ben could remove them in one of his special docking manoeuvres Quote Link to post Share on other sites
winchfodder 332 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 On 2/25/2021 at 7:13 AM, Priscilla said: The Grenadier looks like the Frackers Royal barge and will not exactly fly out of the showroom in vast numbers to it's supposed greatest market the Herne Bay housewife. 13 hours ago, Priscilla said: Looks like it was designed by Nick Holroyd. Both would be an embarrassment in St Tropez, Monaco or Cap D'Antibes. I guess they look ok for the sensibilities of the folks downunder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla 2,800 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 1 minute ago, winchfodder said: Both would be an embarrassment in St Tropez, Monaco or Antibes. I guess they look ok for the sensibilities of the folks downunder. The Frackers Grenadier is clearly a case of design plagiarism of a Kiwi icon. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jaysper 1,264 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 45 minutes ago, accnick said: That's what walkie-talkies and rear-view cameras are for. Get with the program! Yeah, as ugly as this piece of shit is I was going to say that even my car has a reversing camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jaysper 1,264 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 28 minutes ago, amc said: They look removable at least I bet Ben could remove them in one of his special docking manoeuvres I assume you a referring to the docking method he used against SoftBank? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
winchfodder 332 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 18 minutes ago, Priscilla said: The Frackers Grenadier is clearly a case of design plagiarism of a Kiwi icon. Is that the official Cindymobile? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jaysper 1,264 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 On 2/25/2021 at 8:13 PM, Priscilla said: The Grenadier looks like the Frackers Royal barge and will not exactly fly out of the showroom in vast numbers to it's supposed greatest market the Herne Bay housewife. Just looked it up and it has a BMW engine. So much for the marketing wank about this thing being reliable. It looks like a Land Rover. So why not have the quality of one too eh? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snaerk 88 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 On 2/25/2021 at 10:42 PM, CARBONINIT said: Fuck football , load of pansies and bollocks .Fucking hate football. Cricket is watching paint dry. AC is for wealthy twats who are bored and want a bit of silverware on their mantle piece. ooh ooh look at me, over here, cooey. Cleerly terminally dissafekted, + langwidj tshoisez, sudjesting probabel brit ansestry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snaerk 88 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 13 hours ago, chesirecat said: ... especially if they stuck to one system like AF or Whitworth or metric and not combinations of all three. ^ indeed . / Q / . do frakkerz prefer frakshuns? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
amc 101 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 16 minutes ago, jaysper said: I assume you a referring to the docking method he used against SoftBank? Yes and the actual docking at Bermuda Quote Link to post Share on other sites
amc 101 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 9 minutes ago, snaerk said: Cleerly terminally dissafekted, + langwidj tshoisez, sudjesting probabel brit ansestry His last word could suggest orstraylian 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rh3000 1,883 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 49 minutes ago, winchfodder said: I guess they look ok for the sensibilities of the folks downunder. An American as an arbiter of taste... bless... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
winchfodder 332 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 5 minutes ago, rh3000 said: An American as an arbiter of taste... bless... Taste, who needs it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snaerk 88 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 On 2/22/2021 at 11:49 AM, winchfodder said: It looks like Ben has managed to hook into a billionaire who might give him another chance... ......as he has admitted many times in Auckland, the boat was too slow in less than 15 knots, strangely the very conditions predicted for the Prada Cup final and then the Match. Conditions that were very well known years in advance, so one wonders why he went for a heavy air boat in the first place, twice!.... yor contenshin seemz to me to rely on nollidj unavaylabel at the tym ov the ferst bote's dezine to a brand nyoo rool ( shorly he did not intend a "heavy air boat") but yoo make a strong poynt abowt the sekond bote, hwitch shood hav remedeed the ferst's faylings -- not in relayshun to the uther botes (still un-noabel), but in absoloot terms ie the bote thay took to NZ kood not foyl at ennything lyk the bottom end ov the kontest's spessifide kondishunz. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rh3000 1,883 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 That photo @winchfodder is about as brilliant an example as I've ever seen - it's so obvious what aesthetic it is trying to go for, and yet it demonstrates precisely the failure of proportion and detail that turn it into a vulgar heap... Somewhere in there is a bad-ass jeep trying to get out... 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snaerk 88 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 25 minutes ago, amc said: His last word could suggest orstraylian indeed ie probabel brit konvikt ansestry 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paddywackery 436 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 1 minute ago, snaerk said: indeed ie probabel brit konvikt ansestry No, that would be us Irish ☘️ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snaerk 88 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 1 minute ago, rh3000 said: This is about as brilliant an example as I've ever seen - it's so obvious what aesthetic it is trying to go for, and yet it demonstrates precisely the failure of proportion and detail that turn it into a vulgar heap... Somewhere in there is a bad-ass jeep trying to get out... Az Libberarchy faymussly sed "Too much of a good thing is precisely the right amount" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snaerk 88 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 Just now, Paddywackery said: No, that would be us Irish ☘️ from sowth ov the border? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paddywackery 436 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 Just now, snaerk said: from sowth ov the border? Correct. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snaerk 88 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 1 minute ago, Paddywackery said: Correct. I doant think heez nyss enuff. In fakt, he oozez narstiness, whether fayk or reel I doant no. Moast badass non-brit Irish and theer dessendents are lykabel roags, IME Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snaerk 88 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 57 minutes ago, winchfodder said: Is that the official Cindymobile? if the frothing sindyhaterz on this forum are to be belleevd (and I suspekt thay ar not) her styl wood be mor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paddywackery 436 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 4 minutes ago, snaerk said: I doant think heez nyss enuff. In fakt, he oozez narstiness, whether fayk or reel I doant no. Moast badass non-brit Irish and theer dessendents are lykabel roags, IME Lykabel roags is fine by me 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Alchemist 1,425 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nroose 278 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 1 hour ago, jaysper said: Just looked it up and it has a BMW engine. So much for the marketing wank about this thing being reliable. It looks like a Land Rover. So why not have the quality of one too eh? Yeah, I keep thinking this thing is a car designed by someone who really likes older Defenders. Really don't see the point. Niche appeal I guess. There are all manner of guys who dream of producing a retro vehicle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jaysper 1,264 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 12 minutes ago, nroose said: Yeah, I keep thinking this thing is a car designed by someone who really likes older Defenders. Really don't see the point. Niche appeal I guess. There are all manner of guys who dream of producing a retro vehicle. But why put a BMer engine in it? Why not something reliable? It's made in France so will be enough of an unreliable piece of crap without fitting it with a shit engine as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nroose 278 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 34 minutes ago, jaysper said: But why put a BMer engine in it? Why not something reliable? It's made in France so will be enough of an unreliable piece of crap without fitting it with a shit engine as well. Decisions like that, I guess, are about personal/business connections and availability. Each engine has it's advantages and disadvantages. I guess it won't be so important, though, since that vehicle is mostly about how it looks, and how it makes the owners feel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dullers 467 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 4 hours ago, Paddywackery said: No, that would be us Irish ☘️ It was about 50 50 and most Australians are not descended from the convicts. We also had the very ugly go to Australia in large numbers. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paddywackery 436 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, dullers said: It was about 50 50 and most Australians are not descended from the convicts. We also had the very ugly go to Australia in large numbers. Thanks for not sending the very ugly ones here. You sent us enough ugly ones and they soon emigrated. And then the Spanish Armada hit the rocks on the West Coast and they added to our already natural good looks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
minimumfuss 326 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 On 2/25/2021 at 8:13 PM, Priscilla said: The Grenadier looks like the Frackers Royal barge and will not exactly fly out of the showroom in vast numbers to it's supposed greatest market the Herne Bay housewife. Well hopefully Clarkson or one of the Top Gears, takes the orange nose and crash test stickers as a challenge, to see how it resists being dropped off a cliff, RPG fire, or a herd of elephants. That would make me and the 12 year old happy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rh3000 1,883 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 26 minutes ago, minimumfuss said: Well hopefully Clarkson or one of the Top Gears, takes the orange nose and crash test stickers as a challenge, to see how it resists being dropped off a cliff, RPG fire, or a herd of elephants. That would make me and the 12 year old happy. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jaysper 1,264 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 50 minutes ago, minimumfuss said: Well hopefully Clarkson or one of the Top Gears, takes the orange nose and crash test stickers as a challenge, to see how it resists being dropped off a cliff, RPG fire, or a herd of elephants. That would make me and the 12 year old happy. Give it the old Hilux test and put it atop a building during demolition. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
45Roller 374 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Wow some new Ineos related content... Ainslie & Simmer Debrief 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Xlot 1,162 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Considering how long the S&S thread went on, I suppose we’ll have to endure the INEOS one for quite a while yet. Me, I think all one needs to know is here: On 2/27/2021 at 2:58 AM, fish7yu said: America’s Cup: Our analysis of INEOS’ development Toby Heppell looks at the design decisions taken by INEOS Team UK in the build up to the America's Cup and asks where the Brits got it right and where they got it wrong America’s Cup: Our analysis of INEOS’ development 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sailbydate 3,604 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 On 2/28/2021 at 8:57 AM, amc said: They look removable at least I bet Ben could remove them in one of his special docking manoeuvres I think they're geranium planter boxes aren't they? Lends a certain refined narrowboat vibe and softens that otherwise workboat bluntness. I like it. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stingray~ 2,259 Posted March 2, 2021 Author Share Posted March 2, 2021 15 hours ago, Xlot said: Considering how long the S&S thread went on, I suppose we’ll have to endure the INEOS one for quite a while yet. Me, I think all one needs to know is here: In case I missed it being posted earlier, some interesting comments by BA and GS are in this one too 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dullers 467 Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 On 2/27/2021 at 7:25 PM, Priscilla said: What a complete dog’s breakfast the exterior helm station is you wouldn’t be able to see past the chimney whilst in reverse. It is called a camera Pris. By a very clever arrangement using wires or even wi fi they can connect to the bridge. Any other observations? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mako23 632 Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 41 minutes ago, dullers said: It is called a camera Pris. By a very clever arrangement using wires or even wi fi they can connect to the bridge. Any other observations? A very British comment 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fish7yu 560 Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nutta 454 Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 2 hours ago, mako23 said: A very British comment Like "Fuck! We lost... Again..." 8) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KingMonkey 115 Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 13 hours ago, Stingray~ said: some interesting comments GS is always good in interview. It was more interesting to see Ben now he has calmed down a bit also. GS comments on 6 months from knowing class rule to build sign-off on B1 were quite mad and their being behind in simulation systems. Draining resources into going to Sardinia, realising how far behind they were and then being hit with COVID so that the next thing they did was touch down in NZ. They must have been bricking themselves throughout 2020 basically knowing they were behind and couldn't do much to improve the situation. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JJD 209 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 2 x poor performer and now he wants a level playing field. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/americas-cup-2021-sir-ben-ainslies-plea-overhaul-needed-for-fair-americas-cup/AZ2D6HR44K24CVHAEOYPBPHB3E/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Indio 960 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 15 minutes ago, JJD said: 2 x poor performer and now he wants a level playing field. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/americas-cup-2021-sir-ben-ainslies-plea-overhaul-needed-for-fair-americas-cup/AZ2D6HR44K24CVHAEOYPBPHB3E/ The sooner Sir Ben and Mr. Fracker accept the simple fact that the AC has never been fair to Challengers, the sooner they can move on.. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla 2,800 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 22 minutes ago, JJD said: 2 x poor performer and now he wants a level playing field. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/americas-cup-2021-sir-ben-ainslies-plea-overhaul-needed-for-fair-americas-cup/AZ2D6HR44K24CVHAEOYPBPHB3E/ Typical moaning Pom get off the stage loser. “There is no second place” true yah came third. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KingMonkey 115 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/124315584/the-needs-americas-cup-needs-sir-ben-ainslie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MaxHugen 1,136 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 1 hour ago, JJD said: 2 x poor performer and now he wants a level playing field. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/americas-cup-2021-sir-ben-ainslies-plea-overhaul-needed-for-fair-americas-cup/AZ2D6HR44K24CVHAEOYPBPHB3E/ I want super-cavitating foils, all-girl crews (I'm NPC - not politically correct), every billionaire worldwide forced to dump $1-200 million into a Challenge, and 500 ACWS races to keep my armchair occupied until AC37. What are my chances? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwing 509 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Start soon, 12 metres existing boats raced for 1 point after 10 races in each of 10 places around the globe, next year, foiling boats with crews of more than 5, a point after 10 races in each of 10 places around the globe, While building new AC75 with slightly different specs, Then 10 races in each of 5 places around the globe some of which in the country of a challenger? for the final challengers (3?) for the right to become a challengers in the Prada(?) cup in the new defender's home course? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rennmaus 3,060 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Indio said: The sooner Sir Ben and Mr. Fracker accept the simple fact that the AC has never been fair to Challengers, the sooner they can move on.. He's in the "bargaining phase". The next step is "depression", so let's brace for even more whining. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JonRowe 959 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 With a bit of trickery to actually read the article, he's only complaining about the back room politics between the COR and Defender, which to be honest is fair enough, sailors want to go sailing. If us pom's can't have a whinge now and again how would we keep the nickname? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rennmaus 3,060 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, JonRowe said: With a bit of trickery to actually read the article, he's only complaining about the back room politics between the COR and Defender, which to be honest is fair enough, sailors want to go sailing. If us pom's can't have a whinge now and again how would we keep the nickname? I was more referring to Ratcliffe and his brilliant and oh so new ideas to reform the Cup, because that was what was implicitly mentioned in Indio's post I quoted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mozzy Sails 952 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Great to get to chat to Freddie Carr and as a veteran of five Cup campaigns he has so much to say. Lots of fascinating stuff here: Changing roles of grinders IACC -AC75 Is foiling good for the Cup? The efficiency of the 6 man grinding squad Port V Starboard: who's stronger?! No racing today, so grab a coffee and take a listen. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chesirecat 713 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Shirley getting the answers. https://www.podbean.com/ew/dir-k664e-d4eb362 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chesirecat 713 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Rennmaus said: I was more referring to Ratcliffe and his brilliant and oh so new ideas to reform the Cup, because that was what was implicitly mentioned in Indio's post I quoted. You wouldn't want to underestimate him. He pulled off buying BP chemical biz for 5 billion during peak Covid with oil going negative and having 100mil barrels as assets - and that's just one example. His core team are three from the north and they don't muck about. You don't get owt for nowt. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southseasbill 159 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 44 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said: Great to get to chat to Freddie Carr and as a veteran of five Cup campaigns he has so much to say. Lots of fascinating stuff here: Changing roles of grinders IACC -AC75 Is foiling good for the Cup? The efficiency of the 6 man grinding squad Port V Starboard: who's stronger?! No racing today, so grab a coffee and take a listen. Awesome interview. Thanks for that Mozzy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
45Roller 374 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 @Mozzy Sails thanks for this, really excellent interview, hope you can do some more in future, format works really well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AeroSail1 26 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 @Mozzy Sails Awesome interview. From what he said at minute 37 it seems like they are using a CVT gearbox in their grinding setup. Would not be surprised as they always mention how proud INEOS is of their power management and also given the involvement of the Formula 1 team. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
strider470 2,142 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 7 minutes ago, AeroSail1 said: @Mozzy Sails Awesome interview. From what he said at minute 37 it seems like they are using a CVT gearbox in their grinding setup. Would not be surprised as they always mention how proud INEOS is of their power management and also given the involvement of the Formula 1 team. At LR, given the lack of results Ferrari had of recent, they preferred not to ask them 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MaxHugen 1,136 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 47 minutes ago, strider470 said: At LR, given the lack of results Ferrari had of recent, they preferred not to ask them Ouch! Been a long time Ferrari fan. However, I'm not sure the Mercedes F1 team were particularly useful with GB's foils either.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
strider470 2,142 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 21 minutes ago, MaxHugen said: Ouch! Been a long time Ferrari fan. Me too. They will be back soon, I hope. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nroose 278 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Seems clear to me that they had all the elements of a competitive campaign, but they just made some bad design choices. That's not money, or whether you are a challenger or a defender. That is a combination of bad luck and lack of brilliance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MaxHugen 1,136 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 7 minutes ago, nroose said: Seems clear to me that they had all the elements of a competitive campaign, but they just made some bad design choices. That's not money, or whether you are a challenger or a defender. That is a combination of bad luck and lack of brilliance. I think it can also happen with a whole bunch of clever folks who just don't quite gel and figure out what the priorities are to concentrate on. "Too many cooks spoil the broth." 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Woolfy 300 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 3 hours ago, MaxHugen said: I think it can also happen with a whole bunch of clever folks who just don't quite gel and figure out what the priorities are to concentrate on. "Too many cooks spoil the broth." TNZ's 2003 defence springs to mind as a previous example of this Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Main Man 236 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 9 hours ago, Mozzy Sails said: Great to get to chat to Freddie Carr and as a veteran of five Cup campaigns he has so much to say. Lots of fascinating stuff here: Changing roles of grinders IACC -AC75 Is foiling good for the Cup? The efficiency of the 6 man grinding squad Port V Starboard: who's stronger?! No racing today, so grab a coffee and take a listen. Great stuff, thanks so much! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stingray~ 2,259 Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share Posted March 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, The Main Man said: Great stuff, thanks so much! +1! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jaysper 1,264 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 12 hours ago, JJD said: 2 x poor performer and now he wants a level playing field. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/americas-cup-2021-sir-ben-ainslies-plea-overhaul-needed-for-fair-americas-cup/AZ2D6HR44K24CVHAEOYPBPHB3E/ Look, I don't approve of cheating or tilting the playing field too much (like the NYYC did in the olden days), but Ben needs to pull his panties up. They lost. They lost badly in Bermuda and they lost here. Rather than calling for the AC to be run like a kindergarten competition where everyone gets a medal, he needs to face facts. For whatever reason, the team created an inferior boat BOTH times and I doubt that team in its current incarnation could have won the cup even with all the advantages of defender. What concerns me is that if they look for blame outside the team, they will miss the opportunity to be honest about what was wrong inside the team and history will repeat. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stingray~ 2,259 Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share Posted March 6, 2021 1 hour ago, jaysper said: Look, I don't approve of cheating or tilting the playing field too much (like the NYYC did in the olden days), but Ben needs to pull his panties up. In the very-very olden days, yes maybe. But the NYYC moved progressively over decades to make it more ‘fair’ - especially once they accepted the multi-Chall scenario starting in 1970. Ben and Ratcliffe’s biggest gripe appears to have been the (yes, unprecedented unfairness) of ETNZ developing the Rule without the input, or even the listening in on, by other teams. I can’t see them signing as CoR come a week from today (Sunday NZ time) without that and maybe other standards getting addressed first. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwing 509 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Grow up spinbot. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rennmaus 3,060 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 14 minutes ago, Stingray~ said: In the very-very olden days, yes maybe. But the NYYC moved progressively over decades to make it more ‘fair’ - especially once they accepted the multi-Chall scenario starting in 1970. Ben and Ratcliffe’s biggest gripe appears to have been the (yes, unprecedented unfairness) of ETNZ developing the Rule without the input, or even the listening in on, by other teams. I can’t see them signing as CoR come a week from today (Sunday NZ time) without that and maybe other standards getting addressed first. Any perceived unfairness was certainly not unprecedented. There were more unfair defenders in the Cup's history, e.g. the NYYC comes to mind, for approx. a century. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jaysper 1,264 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 13 minutes ago, Kiwing said: Grow up spinbot. LOL! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tornado-Cat 1,082 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 In his interview Benjamin Muyl, Ineos designer, remind us that the two finalist were the first to know the AC75 rules while they were trying to guess what kind of mono they would have to design, losing precious months. https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/regate/coupe-de-l-america/video-les-francais-dans-la-coupe-benjamin-muyl-debriefe-l-aventure-d-ineos-team-uk-7ae84cc4-4054-11eb-8608-7f0bbbb8511e Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwing 509 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Excuses, excuses! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gissie 1,752 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 45 minutes ago, Stingray~ said: In the very-very olden days, yes maybe. But the NYYC moved progressively over decades to make it more ‘fair’ - especially once they accepted the multi-Chall scenario starting in 1970. Ben and Ratcliffe’s biggest gripe appears to have been the (yes, unprecedented unfairness) of ETNZ developing the Rule without the input, or even the listening in on, by other teams. I can’t see them signing as CoR come a week from today (Sunday NZ time) without that and maybe other standards getting addressed first. Be interesting to see of Ben is happy to sign over any potential advantage of being COR once/if he holds the reins. Or, more sensibly, keeps that little edge over any other challengers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paddywackery 436 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Gissie said: Be interesting to see of Ben is happy to sign over any potential advantage of being COR once/if he holds the reins. Or, more sensibly, keeps that little edge over any other challengers. Most unlikely. What we have, we hold. On the other hand, if commercial considerations rule the day then a level playing field with more entrants might be preferred. Competitive v Commercial? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Xlot 1,162 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said: In his interview Benjamin Muyl, Ineos designer, remind us that the two finalist were the first to know the AC75 rules while they were trying to guess what kind of mono they would have to design, losing precious months. https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/regate/coupe-de-l-america/video-les-francais-dans-la-coupe-benjamin-muyl-debriefe-l-aventure-d-ineos-team-uk-7ae84cc4-4054-11eb-8608-7f0bbbb8511e Pure gold. - thanks, TC. On a personal note, I spoke with Muyl at the 2011 Cascais ACWS (good times, Rennie ) where he was working on one of the minor teams, forgot which one Just a coupla points: - he finally explains what the INEOS problem was for the Xmas Cup. It was the foils, they put cameras on the upper side, which was logical since that’s where cavitation or ventilation could be expected. Only as a last resort they looked at the lower side and discovered that, in addition to the normal positive pressure areas, there was an area that actually went negative! This was centered around a “lip”, didn’t quite understand where - just as meaningful, he (involuntarily) expands on Toby Heppel’s analysis of INEO’s fumbling (lack of) strategy on design decisions. He says design teams are ripe with brilliant designers brimming with intriguing ideas. The trick is deciding which ones time and budget allow pursuing, and then getting the entire team committed unreservedly to those. He specifically mentions ETNZ as the team where this happens due to the long association and culture, synthetizing in just two words: COMMON VISION 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stingray~ 2,259 Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share Posted March 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Rennmaus said: Any perceived unfairness was certainly not unprecedented. There were more unfair defenders in the Cup's history, e.g. the NYYC comes to mind, for approx. a century. It seems that a bunch of one-eyed Kiwis on here are pointing to ancient history, for their excuses about why GD should be now bending the rules of fairness towards the Defender. I’m sorry, but that BS is what Ineos are rightfully pointing out. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwing 509 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 One eyes AM don't see their own bias so of course theirs is always a level playing field. AC will always favour the defender, that is how it should be and why it is so hard to win. If you want a level playing field go somewhere else FailGP? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NSP 208 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 And it's also complete BS. The early design parameters were released to all parties in late 2017/early 2018 and contained enough detail for design teams to begin preliminary work, especially on their simulator. That's the real advantage that ETNZ and LR had - they entered with much more sophisticated design tools than the other teams. Presumably Ineos and AM will have similar head starts to new teams in the next cycle which is just how the AC works. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Xlot 1,162 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Adding another comment by Muyl, he says that (due to the delayed issuing of the Rule, hmm ...) both AM and INEOS thought that a portion of the racing would be in displacement mode for their first designs - which obviously turned out to be the wrong assumption 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jaysper 1,264 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 16 minutes ago, Kiwing said: One eyes AM don't see their own bias so of course theirs is always a level playing field. AC will always favour the defender, that is how it should be and why it is so hard to win. If you want a level playing field go somewhere else FailGP? Correct. It's not fair but it IS fair enough considering this is the AC. And Stinger is correct (I know, I'm shocked too) that the NYYC did make it a lot fairer about 40 or 50 years ago. Was it fair? No, but it was clearly fair enough for Oz II to win the thing. Ben whinging for a level playing field is just being stupid. Betcha ten bob to a pinch of shit that it wouldn't have been "fair" if INEOS had won it. That's the price for sitting at the big boy's table and he better get used to it. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tornado-Cat 1,082 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 9 minutes ago, Xlot said: Adding another comment by Muyl, he says that (due to the delayed issuing of the Rule, hmm ...) both AM and INEOS thought that a portion of the racing would be in displacement mode for their first designs - which obviously turned out to be the wrong assumption Another one, they worked on powerful but draggy foils which required more sail power that... they did not get. Ah, and he hopes TNZ wins because.... his friend Guillaume works there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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