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shes legit ... foil arm looks to be in the front end of the box ... opposite of all other teams ... what are we going to read into that?

ETNZ are probably favorites .....but win or lose....Team New Zealand have firmly established themselves as the all time great AC nation in the modern era.   From the time they first emerged, they have

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Interesting collection at the Viaduct.

Frackers Sherpa Adix whose owner Jaime Botin is facing jail time for illegally exporting a Picasso and Severine ex Petite Lande aluminium Alden 54 schooner owned by Marcelino Botin and one of my all time favourites.


85B896BA-ED6E-4CB7-A9F8-FA102069FBDC.jpeg.390d938fcd6084693f1c14f0927cd2e6.jpeg
465D9ADA-E11F-4DE9-AE1D-94C5F06C8F15.thumb.jpeg.0c9d162f71a537e462081938d5ac49d5.jpeg

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9 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Interesting collection at the Viaduct.

Frackers Sherpa Adix whose owner Jaime Botin is facing jail time for illegally exporting a Picasso and Severine ex Petite Lande aluminium Alden 54 schooner owned by Marcelino Botin and one of my all time favourites.


85B896BA-ED6E-4CB7-A9F8-FA102069FBDC.jpeg.390d938fcd6084693f1c14f0927cd2e6.jpeg
465D9ADA-E11F-4DE9-AE1D-94C5F06C8F15.thumb.jpeg.0c9d162f71a537e462081938d5ac49d5.jpeg

Whilst not as large or practical for sure, more attractive by light years.

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9 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

What a complete dog’s breakfast the exterior helm station is you wouldn’t be able to see past the chimney whilst in reverse.:P

43CE2C47-1895-4FF7-9C18-5A1068ABB37A.thumb.jpeg.8fa9154c138118dab550776ad6e8a90c.jpeg

That's what walkie-talkies and rear-view cameras are for.

Get with the program!:D

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

That Royal box protruding from both sides of the of the hull would prevent a lot of docking manoeuvres maybe Jim the Fracker has whopper fenders makes the strakes a bit of macho look I’m a workboat so I must be tuff wank.

 

7876CB60-E8F8-47EF-92CF-3DE13E66750A.thumb.jpeg.8a9bef6993059204c505a42e2ec810b3.jpeg

They look removable at least I bet Ben could remove them in one of his special  docking manoeuvres

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On 2/25/2021 at 7:13 AM, Priscilla said:

The Grenadier looks like the Frackers Royal barge and will not exactly fly out of the showroom in vast numbers to it's supposed greatest market the Herne Bay housewife.

maxresdefault.thumb.jpg.83646dcd862b46390350eac6514ff113.jpg

 

13 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Looks like it was designed by Nick Holroyd.

488BAC94-5A1C-425B-94B6-E16BEC01493E.thumb.jpeg.6fc6d76bef5a63b6b3f5be6f68d0513e.jpeg

 

Both would be an embarrassment in St Tropez, Monaco or Cap D'Antibes.

I guess they look ok for the sensibilities of the folks downunder.

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1 minute ago, winchfodder said:

 

Both would be an embarrassment in St Tropez, Monaco or Antibes.

I guess they look ok for the sensibilities of the folks downunder.

The Frackers Grenadier is clearly a case of design plagiarism of a Kiwi icon.

04A1D53E-9D8B-445C-AF01-611296A4FF19.jpeg.daed39b351e896bb7c82cf6309c40bdd.jpeg

 

 

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On 2/25/2021 at 8:13 PM, Priscilla said:

The Grenadier looks like the Frackers Royal barge and will not exactly fly out of the showroom in vast numbers to it's supposed greatest market the Herne Bay housewife.

maxresdefault.thumb.jpg.83646dcd862b46390350eac6514ff113.jpg

Just looked it up and it has a BMW engine.

So much for the marketing wank about this thing being reliable.

It looks like a Land Rover. So why not have the quality of one too eh?

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On 2/25/2021 at 10:42 PM, CARBONINIT said:

Fuck football , load of pansies and bollocks .Fucking hate football. Cricket is watching paint dry.  AC is  for wealthy twats who are bored and want a bit of silverware on their mantle piece. ooh ooh look at me, over here, cooey.

Cleerly terminally dissafekted,

+ langwidj tshoisez,

sudjesting probabel brit ansestry

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13 hours ago, chesirecat said:

... especially if they stuck to one system like AF or Whitworth or metric and not combinations of all three.

^ indeed

.   / Q   /   .   do frakkerz prefer frakshuns?

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On 2/22/2021 at 11:49 AM, winchfodder said:

It looks like Ben has managed to hook into a billionaire who might give him another chance...

......as he has admitted many times in Auckland, the boat was too slow in less than 15 knots, strangely the very conditions predicted for the Prada Cup final and then the Match. Conditions that were very well known years in advance, so one wonders why he went for a heavy air boat in the first place, twice!....

yor contenshin seemz to me to rely on nollidj unavaylabel at the tym ov the ferst bote's dezine to a brand nyoo rool ( shorly he did not intend a "heavy air boat")

but yoo make a strong poynt abowt the sekond bote, hwitch shood hav remedeed the ferst's faylings -- not in relayshun to the uther botes (still un-noabel), but in absoloot terms

 

ie the bote thay took to NZ kood not foyl at ennything lyk the bottom end ov the kontest's spessifide kondishunz.

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That photo @winchfodder is about as brilliant an example as I've ever seen - it's so obvious what aesthetic it is trying to go for, and yet it demonstrates precisely the failure of proportion and detail that turn it into a vulgar heap...

Somewhere in there is a bad-ass jeep trying to get out... 

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1 minute ago, rh3000 said:

This is about as brilliant an example as I've ever seen - it's so obvious what aesthetic it is trying to go for, and yet it demonstrates precisely the failure of proportion and detail that turn it into a vulgar heap...

Somewhere in there is a bad-ass jeep trying to get out... 

Az Libberarchy faymussly sed

"Too much of a good thing is precisely the right amount"

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1 minute ago, Paddywackery said:

Correct. 

I doant think heez nyss enuff.

In fakt, he oozez narstiness,
whether fayk or reel I doant no.

Moast badass non-brit Irish

and theer dessendents

are lykabel roags, IME

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57 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Is that the official Cindymobile?

if the frothing sindyhaterz on this forum are to be belleevd (and I suspekt thay ar not)

her styl wood be mor 

1/35 scale German staff car and driver with officers | #1862882376

 

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4 minutes ago, snaerk said:

I doant think heez nyss enuff.

In fakt, he oozez narstiness,
whether fayk or reel I doant no.

Moast badass non-brit Irish

and theer dessendents

are lykabel roags, IME

Lykabel roags is fine by me :lol:

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

Just looked it up and it has a BMW engine.

So much for the marketing wank about this thing being reliable.

It looks like a Land Rover. So why not have the quality of one too eh?

Yeah, I keep thinking this thing is a car designed by someone who really likes older Defenders. Really don't see the point. Niche appeal I guess. There are all manner of guys who dream of producing a retro vehicle.

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12 minutes ago, nroose said:

Yeah, I keep thinking this thing is a car designed by someone who really likes older Defenders. Really don't see the point. Niche appeal I guess. There are all manner of guys who dream of producing a retro vehicle.

But why put a BMer engine in it? Why not something reliable?

It's made in France so will be enough of an unreliable piece of crap without fitting it with a shit engine as well.

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34 minutes ago, jaysper said:

But why put a BMer engine in it? Why not something reliable?

It's made in France so will be enough of an unreliable piece of crap without fitting it with a shit engine as well.

Decisions like that, I guess, are about personal/business connections and availability. Each engine has it's advantages and disadvantages. I guess it won't be so important, though, since that vehicle is mostly about how it looks, and how it makes the owners feel.

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4 hours ago, Paddywackery said:

No, that would be us Irish ☘️ 

It was about 50 50 and most Australians are not descended from the convicts. We also had the very ugly go to Australia in large numbers.

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6 minutes ago, dullers said:

It was about 50 50 and most Australians are not descended from the convicts. We also had the very ugly go to Australia in large numbers.

Thanks for not sending the very ugly ones here. You sent us enough ugly ones and they soon emigrated. And then the Spanish Armada hit the rocks on the West Coast and they added to our already natural good looks. 

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On 2/25/2021 at 8:13 PM, Priscilla said:

The Grenadier looks like the Frackers Royal barge and will not exactly fly out of the showroom in vast numbers to it's supposed greatest market the Herne Bay housewife.

maxresdefault.thumb.jpg.83646dcd862b46390350eac6514ff113.jpg

Well hopefully Clarkson or one of the Top Gears, takes the orange nose and crash test stickers as a challenge, to see how it resists being dropped off a cliff, RPG fire,  or a herd of elephants. That would make me and the 12 year old happy. 

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26 minutes ago, minimumfuss said:

Well hopefully Clarkson or one of the Top Gears, takes the orange nose and crash test stickers as a challenge, to see how it resists being dropped off a cliff, RPG fire,  or a herd of elephants. That would make me and the 12 year old happy. 

 

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50 minutes ago, minimumfuss said:

Well hopefully Clarkson or one of the Top Gears, takes the orange nose and crash test stickers as a challenge, to see how it resists being dropped off a cliff, RPG fire,  or a herd of elephants. That would make me and the 12 year old happy. 

Give it the old Hilux test and put it atop a building during demolition.

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Considering how long the S&S thread went on, I suppose we’ll have to endure the INEOS one for quite a while yet. Me, I think all one needs to know is here:

On 2/27/2021 at 2:58 AM, fish7yu said:

America’s Cup: Our analysis of INEOS’ development

Toby Heppell looks at the design decisions taken by INEOS Team UK in the build up to the America's Cup and asks where the Brits got it right and where they got it wrong

America’s Cup: Our analysis of INEOS’ development

 

09-58-05-200204_TeamINEOSUK_LloydImages_027-2048x2048-1.jpg

 

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On 2/28/2021 at 8:57 AM, amc said:

They look removable at least I bet Ben could remove them in one of his special  docking manoeuvres

I think they're geranium planter boxes aren't they?

Lends a certain refined narrowboat vibe and softens that otherwise workboat bluntness. I like it.

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15 hours ago, Xlot said:

Considering how long the S&S thread went on, I suppose we’ll have to endure the INEOS one for quite a while yet. Me, I think all one needs to know is here:

 

In case I missed it being posted earlier, some interesting comments by BA and GS are in this one too

 

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On 2/27/2021 at 7:25 PM, Priscilla said:

What a complete dog’s breakfast the exterior helm station is you wouldn’t be able to see past the chimney whilst in reverse.:P

43CE2C47-1895-4FF7-9C18-5A1068ABB37A.thumb.jpeg.8fa9154c138118dab550776ad6e8a90c.jpeg

It is called a camera Pris. By a very clever arrangement using wires or even wi fi they can connect to the bridge. Any other observations?

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41 minutes ago, dullers said:

It is called a camera Pris. By a very clever arrangement using wires or even wi fi they can connect to the bridge. Any other observations?

A very British comment 

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2 hours ago, mako23 said:

A very British comment 

Like "Fuck! We lost... Again..." 

8)

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13 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

some interesting comments

GS is always good in interview. It was more interesting to see Ben now he has calmed down a bit also. 

GS comments on 6 months from knowing class rule to build sign-off on B1 were quite mad and their being behind in simulation systems. Draining resources into going to Sardinia, realising how far behind they were and then being hit with COVID so that the next thing they did was touch down in NZ. They must have been bricking themselves throughout 2020 basically knowing they were behind and couldn't do much to improve the situation. 

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15 minutes ago, JJD said:

The sooner Sir Ben and Mr. Fracker accept the simple fact that the AC has never been fair to Challengers, the sooner they can move on..

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1 hour ago, JJD said:

I want super-cavitating foils, all-girl crews (I'm NPC - not politically correct), every billionaire worldwide forced to dump $1-200 million into a Challenge, and 500 ACWS races to keep my armchair occupied until AC37.

What are my chances?  :P

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Start soon,

12 metres existing boats raced for 1 point  after 10 races in each of 10 places around the globe,

next year, foiling boats with crews of more than 5,  a point after 10 races in each of 10 places around the globe,

While building new AC75 with slightly different specs,

Then 10 races in each of 5 places around the globe some of which in the country of a challenger?  for the final challengers (3?) for the right to become a challengers in the Prada(?) cup in the new defender's home course?

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1 hour ago, Indio said:

The sooner Sir Ben and Mr. Fracker accept the simple fact that the AC has never been fair to Challengers, the sooner they can move on..

He's in the "bargaining phase". The next step is "depression", so let's brace for even more whining. 

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With a bit of trickery to actually read the article, he's only complaining about the back room politics between the COR and Defender, which to be honest is fair enough, sailors want to go sailing.

If us pom's can't have a whinge now and again how would we keep the nickname?

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3 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

With a bit of trickery to actually read the article, he's only complaining about the back room politics between the COR and Defender, which to be honest is fair enough, sailors want to go sailing.

If us pom's can't have a whinge now and again how would we keep the nickname?

I was more referring to Ratcliffe and his brilliant and oh so new ideas to reform the Cup, because that was what was implicitly mentioned in Indio's post I quoted. 

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Great to get to chat to Freddie Carr and as a veteran of five Cup campaigns he has so much to say. 
Lots of fascinating stuff here:

  • Changing roles of grinders IACC -AC75
  • Is foiling good for the Cup?
  • The efficiency of the 6 man grinding squad
  • Port V Starboard: who's stronger?!

No racing today, so grab a coffee and take a listen.

 

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1 hour ago, Rennmaus said:

I was more referring to Ratcliffe and his brilliant and oh so new ideas to reform the Cup, because that was what was implicitly mentioned in Indio's post I quoted. 

You wouldn't want to underestimate him. He pulled off buying BP chemical biz for 5 billion during peak Covid with oil going negative and having 100mil barrels as assets  - and that's just one example. His core team are three from the north and they don't muck about. You don't get owt  for nowt.

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44 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

Great to get to chat to Freddie Carr and as a veteran of five Cup campaigns he has so much to say. 
Lots of fascinating stuff here:

  • Changing roles of grinders IACC -AC75
  • Is foiling good for the Cup?
  • The efficiency of the 6 man grinding squad
  • Port V Starboard: who's stronger?!

No racing today, so grab a coffee and take a listen.

 

Awesome interview. Thanks for that Mozzy.

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@Mozzy Sails Awesome interview. From what he said at minute 37 it seems like they are using a CVT gearbox in their grinding setup. Would not be surprised as they always mention how proud INEOS is of their power management and also given the involvement of the Formula 1 team. 

 

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7 minutes ago, AeroSail1 said:

@Mozzy Sails Awesome interview. From what he said at minute 37 it seems like they are using a CVT gearbox in their grinding setup. Would not be surprised as they always mention how proud INEOS is of their power management and also given the involvement of the Formula 1 team. 

 

At LR, given the lack of results Ferrari had of recent, they preferred not to ask them :D

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47 minutes ago, strider470 said:

At LR, given the lack of results Ferrari had of recent, they preferred not to ask them :D

Ouch!  Been a long time Ferrari fan. :(

However, I'm not sure the Mercedes F1 team were particularly useful with GB's foils either....

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Seems clear to me that they had all the elements of a competitive campaign, but they just made some bad design choices. That's not money, or whether you are a challenger or a defender. That is a combination of bad luck and lack of brilliance.

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7 minutes ago, nroose said:

Seems clear to me that they had all the elements of a competitive campaign, but they just made some bad design choices. That's not money, or whether you are a challenger or a defender. That is a combination of bad luck and lack of brilliance.

I think it can also happen with a whole bunch of clever folks who just don't quite gel and figure out what the priorities are to concentrate on.

"Too many cooks spoil the broth."

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3 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

I think it can also happen with a whole bunch of clever folks who just don't quite gel and figure out what the priorities are to concentrate on.

"Too many cooks spoil the broth."

TNZ's 2003 defence springs to mind as a previous example of this

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9 hours ago, Mozzy Sails said:

Great to get to chat to Freddie Carr and as a veteran of five Cup campaigns he has so much to say. 
Lots of fascinating stuff here:

  • Changing roles of grinders IACC -AC75
  • Is foiling good for the Cup?
  • The efficiency of the 6 man grinding squad
  • Port V Starboard: who's stronger?!

No racing today, so grab a coffee and take a listen.

 

Great stuff, thanks so much!

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12 hours ago, JJD said:

Look, I don't approve of cheating or tilting the playing field too much (like the NYYC did in the olden days), but Ben needs to pull his panties up.

They lost. They lost badly in Bermuda and they lost here.

Rather than calling for the AC to be run like a kindergarten competition where everyone gets a medal, he needs to face facts.

For whatever reason, the team created an inferior boat BOTH times and I doubt that team in its current incarnation could have won the cup even with all the advantages of defender.

What concerns me is that if they look for blame outside the team, they will miss the opportunity to be honest about what was wrong inside the team and history will repeat.

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

Look, I don't approve of cheating or tilting the playing field too much (like the NYYC did in the olden days), but Ben needs to pull his panties up.

In the very-very olden days, yes maybe. But the NYYC moved progressively over decades to make it more ‘fair’ - especially once they accepted the multi-Chall scenario starting in 1970. 
 

Ben and Ratcliffe’s biggest gripe appears to have been the (yes, unprecedented unfairness) of ETNZ developing the Rule without the input, or even the listening in on, by other teams. I can’t see them signing as CoR come a week from today (Sunday NZ time) without that and maybe other standards getting addressed first. 

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14 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

In the very-very olden days, yes maybe. But the NYYC moved progressively over decades to make it more ‘fair’ - especially once they accepted the multi-Chall scenario starting in 1970. 
 

Ben and Ratcliffe’s biggest gripe appears to have been the (yes, unprecedented unfairness) of ETNZ developing the Rule without the input, or even the listening in on, by other teams. I can’t see them signing as CoR come a week from today (Sunday NZ time) without that and maybe other standards getting addressed first. 

Any perceived unfairness was certainly not unprecedented. There were more unfair defenders in the Cup's history, e.g. the NYYC comes to mind, for approx. a century.

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In his interview Benjamin Muyl, Ineos designer, remind us that the two finalist were the first to know the AC75 rules while they were trying to guess what kind of mono they would have to design, losing precious months.

 

https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/regate/coupe-de-l-america/video-les-francais-dans-la-coupe-benjamin-muyl-debriefe-l-aventure-d-ineos-team-uk-7ae84cc4-4054-11eb-8608-7f0bbbb8511e

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45 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

In the very-very olden days, yes maybe. But the NYYC moved progressively over decades to make it more ‘fair’ - especially once they accepted the multi-Chall scenario starting in 1970. 
 

Ben and Ratcliffe’s biggest gripe appears to have been the (yes, unprecedented unfairness) of ETNZ developing the Rule without the input, or even the listening in on, by other teams. I can’t see them signing as CoR come a week from today (Sunday NZ time) without that and maybe other standards getting addressed first. 

Be interesting to see of Ben is happy to sign over any potential advantage of being COR once/if he holds the reins. Or, more sensibly, keeps that little edge over any other challengers.

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

Be interesting to see of Ben is happy to sign over any potential advantage of being COR once/if he holds the reins. Or, more sensibly, keeps that little edge over any other challengers.

Most unlikely. What we have, we hold. On the other hand, if commercial considerations rule the day then a level playing field with more entrants might be preferred. Competitive v Commercial?

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

In his interview Benjamin Muyl, Ineos designer, remind us that the two finalist were the first to know the AC75 rules while they were trying to guess what kind of mono they would have to design, losing precious months.

 

https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/regate/coupe-de-l-america/video-les-francais-dans-la-coupe-benjamin-muyl-debriefe-l-aventure-d-ineos-team-uk-7ae84cc4-4054-11eb-8608-7f0bbbb8511e

 

Pure gold. - thanks, TC. On a personal note, I spoke with Muyl at the 2011 Cascais ACWS (good times, Rennie :) ) where he was working on one of the minor teams, forgot which one

Just a coupla points:

- he finally explains what the INEOS problem was for the Xmas Cup. It was the foils, they put cameras on the upper side, which was logical since that’s where cavitation or ventilation could be expected. Only as a last resort they looked at the lower side and discovered that, in addition to the normal positive pressure areas, there was an area that actually went negative! This was centered around a “lip”, didn’t quite understand where

- just as meaningful, he (involuntarily) expands on Toby Heppel’s analysis of INEO’s fumbling (lack of) strategy on design decisions. He says design teams are ripe with brilliant designers brimming with intriguing ideas. The trick is deciding which ones time and budget allow pursuing, and then getting the entire team committed unreservedly to those. He specifically mentions ETNZ as the team where this happens due to the long association and culture, synthetizing in just two words: COMMON VISION

 

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1 hour ago, Rennmaus said:

Any perceived unfairness was certainly not unprecedented. There were more unfair defenders in the Cup's history, e.g. the NYYC comes to mind, for approx. a century.

It seems that a bunch of one-eyed Kiwis on here are pointing to ancient history, for their excuses about why GD should be now bending the rules of fairness towards the Defender. I’m sorry, but that BS is what Ineos are rightfully pointing out. 

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One eyes AM don't see their own bias so of course theirs is always a level playing field.

AC will always favour the defender, that is how it should be and why it is so hard to win.

If you want a level playing field go somewhere else FailGP?

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And it's also complete BS.  The early design parameters were released to all parties in late 2017/early 2018 and contained enough detail for design teams to begin preliminary work, especially on their simulator.  That's the real advantage that ETNZ and LR had - they entered with much more sophisticated design tools than the other teams.  Presumably Ineos and AM will have similar head starts to new teams in the next cycle which is just how the AC works.

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Adding another comment by Muyl, he says that (due to the delayed issuing of the Rule, hmm ...) both AM and INEOS thought that a portion of the racing would be in displacement mode for their first designs - which obviously turned out to be the wrong assumption

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16 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

One eyes AM don't see their own bias so of course theirs is always a level playing field.

AC will always favour the defender, that is how it should be and why it is so hard to win.

If you want a level playing field go somewhere else FailGP?

Correct. It's not fair but it IS fair enough considering this is the AC.

And Stinger is correct (I know, I'm shocked too) that the NYYC did make it a lot fairer about 40 or 50 years ago.

Was it fair? No, but it was clearly fair enough for Oz II to win the thing.

Ben whinging for a level playing field is just being stupid. Betcha ten bob to a pinch of shit that it wouldn't have been "fair" if INEOS had won it.

That's the price for sitting at the big boy's table and he better get used to it.

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9 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Adding another comment by Muyl, he says that (due to the delayed issuing of the Rule, hmm ...) both AM and INEOS thought that a portion of the racing would be in displacement mode for their first designs - which obviously turned out to be the wrong assumption

Another one, they worked on powerful but draggy foils which required more sail power that... they did not get.

Ah, and he hopes TNZ wins because.... his friend Guillaume works there.

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