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I don't believe anything until it comes out of Grants mouth after the match is over and he's had a few. 

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shes legit ... foil arm looks to be in the front end of the box ... opposite of all other teams ... what are we going to read into that?

ETNZ are probably favorites .....but win or lose....Team New Zealand have firmly established themselves as the all time great AC nation in the modern era.   From the time they first emerged, they have

Slowly working through yesterday's lot

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Just now, Stingray~ said:

Ratty has the $B’s and so if GD is caving to that? Well then guess who will be calling the shots.. 

GD is out of money, the spat with NZ Government. If they have to take it overseas I hope it's a Multi-Challenger Event like it was in BDA!

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unfortunately it’s looking a bit lighter than yesterday, the flags on the bridge fully drooping, but you never know as I have mentioned a few times there is almost always some breeze in that part of the harbour

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We need some language to distinguish the various types of challenge. In theory of course, all challenges are DoG challenges because they are challenges under the DoG

There are really 3 types of challenge:

1.  DoG Challenge like Fay vs SDYC or Oracle vs Allinghi.  A challenge where terms have not been agreed so its 3 races between 2 boats and the only rules are those in the DoG (90 feet etc)

2. CoR Challenge. A challenge where a CoR has agreed certain terms ahead of time wth defender and acts as coordinating challenger for a challenger series to determine the final challenger

3. Single Challenge. A single challenge from a single club but with rules and terms agreed . This would be like the early 12 meter challenges in the 1960s before the introduction of the challenger series. I am honestly not sure when the last AC without a challenger series was held (excluding the 2 DoG matches)  It was in the 12 meter.   But it is over 40 year ago.

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1 minute ago, EYESAILOR said:

We need some language to distinguish the various types of challenge. In theory of course, all challenges are DoG challenges because they are challenges under the DoG

There are really 3 types of challenge:

1.  DoG Challenge like Fay vs SDYC or Oracle vs Allinghi.  A challenge where terms have not been agreed so its 3 races between 2 boats and the only rules are those in the DoG (90 feet etc)

2. CoR Challenge. A challenge where a CoR has agreed certain terms ahead of time wth defender and acts as coordinating challenger for a challenger series to determine the final challenger

3. Single Challenge. A single challenge from a single club but with rules and terms agreed . This would be like the early 12 meter challenges in the 1960s before the introduction of the challenger series. I am honestly not sure when the last AC without a challenger series was held (excluding the 2 DoG matches)  It was in the 12 meter.   But it is over 40 year ago.

Thanks for the explanation.

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

He is the one being quoted and on radio

saying he has seen it? Really? INEOS thought they would drop him a copy before The cup was decided so he could ‘leak” to the media while he still has a job? 
 

sure... 

Yeah, my Maine Coon cat has seen it to.

He told me puuurr, meow, scratch, scratch which is as good as confirming it from my point of view.

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2 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

We need some language to distinguish the various types of challenge. In theory of course, all challenges are DoG challenges because they are challenges under the DoG

Yep I think any challenge has to reference the DOG to make absolutely sure that another party can’t slip one past them via the court. 
It is also a remote possibility that they expect no other challengers. 

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31 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

I very much like the idea of a 1:1 match around the Isle of Wright...

Sounds good, but they'd have to wait for very calm conditions, I don't think the AC75s like waves much over one foot?

IIRC, the Spanish also found "Channel Chop" a bit daunting back in the day.

BTW, did someone recently set a single-handed record around the IoW in just over 5 hours?

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4 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Sounds good, but they'd have to wait for very calm conditions, I don't think the AC75s like waves much over one foot?

IIRC, the Spanish also found "Channel Chop" a bit daunting back in the day.

BTW, did someone recently set a single-handed record around the IoW in just over 5 hours?

Single handed record around the Island is under 4hours by kite foil 

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51 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

I very much like the idea of a 1:1 match around the Isle of Wright...

 

 

 

... once a yacht club from the UK is the Defender. 

The War of the Ring would be a skirmish in comparison to what will follow such a decision...

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As someone who current resides near the IoW I'd like to see a challenger series here and then a final in Auckland ;)

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3 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

Sounds good, but they'd have to wait for very calm conditions, I don't think the AC75s like waves much over one foot?

I'd have thought so. South of St Cats tends to the lumpy and bumpy. Sounds more like a photo-op than a scheduled race.

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Is this the first AC where one of the losers gets to have races in their water?

Is Ben incapable of accepting defeat?

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14 minutes ago, rantro said:

Is this the first AC where one of the losers gets to have races in their water?

Is Ben incapable of accepting defeat?

Technically they weren't losers in the AC, they didn't make to that point. 

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22 minutes ago, rantro said:

Is this the first AC where one of the losers gets to have races in their water?

Is Ben incapable of accepting defeat?

no as explained previously other teams have conducted stand alone races outside of the Cup.

there is no AC currently anyway so calm down a bit?

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15 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Technically they weren't losers in the AC, they didn't make to that point. 

Sovereign in 1964 was the last British Challenge to lose the match. Royal Thames Yacht Club. 

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So what is being restructured at Ineos. Who are they keeping?

Jim Ratcliffe outlined things to change right after the last race. One would have to be careful throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I for one would like Philippe Presti to come on board. He's street smart and a shrewd operator.

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1 hour ago, chesirecat said:

I for one would like Philippe Presti to come on board. He's street smart and a shrewd operator.

Presti will go where Jimmy goes.

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On 3/17/2021 at 5:22 AM, Rennmaus said:

I very much like the idea of a 1:1 match around the Isle of Wright...

 

 

 

... once a yacht club from the UK is the Defender. 

With Whompers!  (Tm)

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2 hours ago, chesirecat said:

So what is being restructured at Ineos. Who are they keeping?

Jim Ratcliffe outlined things to change right after the last race. One would have to be careful throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I for one would like Philippe Presti to come on board. He's street smart and a shrewd operator.

Grant Simmer needs to be jettisoned!

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11 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Grant Simmer needs to be jettisoned!

Can't comment on Simmer cos I have no idea of the internal workings of the team, but SOMETHING has to change.

They ended up with a fairly competitive boat, but only after a bit of a hail mary pass.

Given they could possibly have spent the most on this cup, that's a sign of something seriously wrong.

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4 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Can't comment on Simmer cos I have no idea of the internal workings of the team, but SOMETHING has to change.

They ended up with a fairly competitive boat, but only after a bit of a hail mary pass.

Given they could possibly have spent the most on this cup, that's a sign of something seriously wrong.

If I were Ratcliffe I would at least shake of the Management of his Team. Bring in a Sailing Team Manager and as CEO Toto Wolff!

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9 hours ago, jaysper said:

Can't comment on Simmer cos I have no idea of the internal workings of the team, but SOMETHING has to change.

I really struggle to imagine how it was set up given Simmer was the CEO. It really didn't come across as something he was running, which is really weird. Given his track record and my knowledge of him, I would find it really hard to believe he was the issue. Could be that there was a conflict of personality with BA.

If BA couldn't make it work with GS, can you imagine bring in Toto Wolfe as suggested, LOLOLOLOLOLOL

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9 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

If I were Ratcliffe I would at least shake of the Management of his Team. Bring in a Sailing Team Manager and as CEO Toto Wolff!

Think Toto is a bit busy.. that F1 thing he does at weekends? 

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9 hours ago, jaysper said:

Can't comment on Simmer cos I have no idea of the internal workings of the team, but SOMETHING has to change.

They ended up with a fairly competitive boat, but only after a bit of a hail mary pass.

Given they could possibly have spent the most on this cup, that's a sign of something seriously wrong.

Best they give the Mercedes Benz engineers the flick too.

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14 hours ago, The Advocate said:

I really struggle to imagine how it was set up given Simmer was the CEO. It really didn't come across as something he was running, which is really weird. Given his track record and my knowledge of him, I would find it really hard to believe he was the issue. Could be that there was a conflict of personality with BA.

If BA couldn't make it work with GS, can you imagine bring in Toto Wolfe as suggested, LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Ben's reputation and personality would likely have some pretty big downsides.

Can you imagine a lowly engineer telling Ben his idea for the boat is stupid? Good fucking luck!

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2 hours ago, jaysper said:

Ben's reputation and personality would likely have some pretty big downsides.

Can you imagine a lowly engineer telling Ben his idea for the boat is stupid? Good fucking luck!

But they’re happy to be involved and get well paid. 

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INEOS has to chance their Management from the Top Down for AC37 to have any chance of success. Letting the same people running the Show and then expect a different Result will not work.

Grant Simmer has a poor track Record the last few AC Cycles. Many blamed him that OTUSA was in an 0 - 5 hole during their Defense in 2013. Things changed when Russell Coutts took matters in his own hands.

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6 hours ago, jaysper said:

Can you imagine a lowly engineer telling Ben his idea for the boat is stupid? Good fucking luck!

That lowly engineer would go a shit load further by studying "How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie. Just sayin.

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17 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

That lowly engineer would go a shit load further by studying "How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie. Just sayin.

Ok, so two things:

1. Love that book.

2. I was using more than a touch of hyperbole.

Regardless, I reckon my point is valid.

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Just now, jaysper said:

Ok, so two things:

1. Love that book.

2. I was using more than a touch of hyperbole.

Regardless, I reckon my point is valid.

Yes. Your point was valid, Jays. I was just being the "wanker" that you described earlier. Quits? ;-)

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7 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Yes. Your point was valid, Jays. I was just being the "wanker" that you described earlier. Quits? ;-)

Nah, fuck it.

If I quit ALL my feuds here on SAAC what will I do with myself?

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9 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Nah, fuck it.

If I quit ALL my feuds here on SAAC what will I do with myself?

But you did it last time, I recall. Went AWOL for a couple of years, IIRC.

We even sent out a search party (well, it was more like a fishing expedition, really). :D

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10 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

But you did it last time, I recall. Went AWOL for a couple of years, IIRC.

We even sent out a search party (well, it was more like a fishing expedition, really). :D

I didn't quit them.

Just put them into hibernation.

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2 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I didn't quit them.

Just put them into hibernation.

Glad you thawed them out, anyway.

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9 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

That lowly engineer would go a shit load further by studying "How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie. Just sayin.

Based on an entire working life in engineering firms, I submit you have no idea about the psychology of design specialists: most of them are absolutely brilliant in their field of expertise, but otherwise deficient in common sense and social skills - and quick to clam up if contradicted. Otherwise, they’d be managers ...

 

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9 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Based on an entire working life in engineering firms, I submit you have no idea about the psychology of design specialists: most of them are absolutely brilliant in their field of expertise, but otherwise deficient in common sense and social skills - and quick to clam up if contradicted. Otherwise, they’d be managers ...

 

Def not my experience, but then my engineering experience was largely limited to large ($500 Million+) projects with the likes of Fluor Daniel (awful & incompetent) and Bechtel (awful and effective).

Not everyone was the bubbly sort like I am, but they were with very few exceptions very social and at the end of a long day we would all fuck off to the pub for dinner and a drink.

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5 minutes ago, Xlot said:

YMMV, but would you have wanted any of them marrying your daughter? :D

 

Dude! I wouldn't some grubby bastard like ME marrying my daughter!

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2 hours ago, Xlot said:

Based on an entire working life in engineering firms, I submit you have no idea about the psychology of design specialists: most of them are absolutely brilliant in their field of expertise, but otherwise deficient in common sense and social skills - and quick to clam up if contradicted. Otherwise, they’d be managers ...

 

You'd be dead wrong about design specialists, but right about my lack of exposure to engineering firms. ;-)

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Sir Ben Ainslie wrote a new Blog Entry in the Telegraphs Sailing Section:

Says "The Decision on the Venue rests with Defender Emirates Team New Zealand" also echoes Matteo de Nora "Many Options on the Table"

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3 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Warning Shot to potential other Challengers:

Sir Jim Ratcliffe wants that Cup and he probably go over "Broken Glass" to get it if he has to.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sailing/2021/03/24/sir-jim-ratcliffe-continuing-americas-cup-quest-chance-magical/

Oh look; a billionaire wants something he can’t buy. Color me amazed. 

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27 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Oh look; a billionaire wants something he can’t buy. Color me amazed. 

Jim made his money the hardest way possible .  In industrial assets.  This is not a Silicon Valley founder with $20 billion of stock in a publicly quoted company that is yet to make its first profit.   He didnt start until his 40s and he went in and turned around some very tough businesses that major companies had given up on.

He will give it his best shot. He knows he can lose. But he also knows that you cannot win unless you believe you can win.  He talks about business life as requiring a sense of adventure and an ability to take calculated assets.    He is also known as a good manager of people and teams (very low turnover of employees ) who is brilliant at picking the right people, defining goals and then letting them get on with it.

Obviously it will depend on boat, designer and sailors but Sir Jim is about as well  qualified  a team owner as any syndicate could find.

 

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4 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Jim made his money the hardest way possible .  In industrial assets.  This is not a Silicon Valley founder with $20 billion of stock in a publicly quoted company that is yet to make its first profit.  

Oh so that's how it works? Good to know.

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Warning Shot to potential other Challengers:

Sir Jim Ratcliffe wants that Cup and he probably go over "Broken Glass" to get it if he has to.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sailing/2021/03/24/sir-jim-ratcliffe-continuing-americas-cup-quest-chance-magical/

I can't read the article but he's certainly motivated and has significant resources to mount a serious challenge. And he has assembled a stable of highly talented sports people across multiple disciplines beyond sailing. That will make the approach taken interesting and probably different from previous challengers.

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4 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

I can't read the article but he's certainly motivated and has significant resources to mount a serious challenge. And he has assembled a stable of highly talented sports people across multiple disciplines beyond sailing. That will make the approach taken interesting and probably different from previous challengers.

A paywall?  Here you go:

Sir Jim Ratcliffe on continuing America's Cup quest and chance of a 'magical' one-off UK match

Exclusive: The Auld Mug evaded Ineos Team UK this year, but the British billionaire is committed to 'bringing it home' with Ben Ainslie

By Tom Cary, Senior Sports Correspondent 24 March 2021 • 7:41am
Sir Ben Ainslie team principal and helmsman of the British Americas Cup team INEOS Team UK (R) talks with Jim Ratcliffe founder and chairman of INEOS at the 36th America's Cup Overture as part of the launch for the new protocol of the 36th edition of the Americas Cup in 2021 on August 31, 2018 in Cowes, United Kingdo
It appears that sirs Jim Ratcliffe and Ben Ainslie will team up again in the hope of claiming the America's Cup Credit: Lloyd Images /Getty Images Europe 
 

In the end that famous ‘£110 million gin and tonic’, the drink over which Sir Jim Ratcliffe looked into Sir Ben Ainslie’s eyes and agreed to back to his America's Cup team, did not yield the Auld Mug. But nor, apparently, did it leave a bitter aftertaste. “It’s been a thoroughly enjoyable experience,” says Ratcliffe, reflecting on three months in New Zealand watching Ainslie’s team trying but failing to become the first British winners of sport’s oldest international trophy. “We’ve had a great time.”

So great, in fact, the journey is continuing. Ratcliffe, the founder and co-owner of petrochemicals giant Ineos and Britain’s richest man with a personal wealth estimated at some £17 billion, has now agreed to underwrite Ainslie’s next America’s Cup campaign, too. More than that, Ratcliffe and his advisors have been influential in helping to secure ‘Challenger of Record’ status for Ineos Team UK, a status that bestows certain privileges upon the challenging yacht club and should in theory help Britain’s chances of ending 170 years of hurt.

 

Ineos and Cup holders Team New Zealand, who accepted the British challenge after wrapping up a 7-3 victory over previous challenger of record (CoR) Luna Rossa in the 36th match last week, have already made a few announcements regarding their intentions for the next Cup. These include continuing with the current 75-foot foiling monohulls for at least two more cycles as well as various cost-cutting measures designed to attract new blood (Ratcliffe says he would "hope to knock a third off" what he's spending).

But what has really got everyone talking in America’s Cup land, and what I want to discuss with Ratcliffe, are the rumours of a special, one-off match between New Zealand and Britain in the Isle of Wight next year. 

Is the America’s Cup coming home? Ratcliffe says he is unsure. “I’d love to see it happen,” he admits, speaking from his temporary offices in Auckland to which he has relocated with some 30 Ineos staff and their partners. “I think it would be quite magical to have it in the UK after all this time, particularly after Covid. It would be a big thing for the UK, I think. But ultimately it’s up to the Kiwis.”

The idea, if it is signed off, would see the defenders and the CoR face off in a special series at the midway point between now and the next ‘full’ America’s Cup in 2024, which will almost certainly be back in Auckland. It would likely be controversial, excluding as it does any other challengers. While there are many in New Zealand would prefer not to see the Cup risked in a series abroad. But Ratcliffe is hopeful the idea will gain traction, insisting it would be in everyone’s interests.

“The fact is,” he says, “New Zealand are a commercially-funded team. Grant Dalton, their boss, does not have an Ineos behind him. This event, if it happens, would be a platform, which might help them raise funding to keep that team together.”

Ratcliffe says he would not fund the event himself. “Absolutely not,” he says. “I want to be clear about that. Because that would be sort of like buying the Cup into the UK and I don't think that's appropriate.”

 INEOS TEAM UK competes against Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli Team in Round three, race 2 during the 2021 PRADA Cup Round Robins on Auckland Harbour on January 23, 2021 in Auckland, New Zealand
Team Ineos UK lost out to Italian Luna Rossa in the Prada Cup  Credit: Getty Images AsiaPac /Phil Walter 

As defenders and event organisers, though, Dalton would be able to negotiate with commercial partners and local government, charge a hosting fee, deal with broadcasters and so on. Ratcliffe even suggests the UK Government might be keen to support a prestigious global sporting event in that neck of the woods. “There have been many instances where governments have put some money down to attract the Cup to the country because it's good for regeneration,” he says. “I mean, the Isle of Wight and that part of the south coast is not in a great state, so it would bring a bit of a rejuvenation to that area. Why not? 

“I honestly think it would be a great success. You have to remember, due to Covid last year, which forced the cancellation of two planned events [in Cagliari and Portsmouth] nobody in the northern hemisphere has yet seen these boats in action live. They are absolutely incredible, believe me. I think people would be blown away, sailors and non-sailors alike.

“I think if there was effectively a duel between ourselves and the world’s dominant sailing force… I mean, the Kiwis are to sailing  what the All Blacks are to rugby really… to take on the best in the world, on our home waters, 171 years after the America’s Cup was first raced there, would be quite something.” 

Ratcliffe admits they might get “a bit of flak” from other syndicates. But he points out that no one else would really be ready to contest another Cup so soon anyway. And as far as the 2024 event is concerned, nothing would change with Ineos happy to return to Auckland – if that was what New Zealand wanted – regardless of whether they won or lost in Cowes. The idea is more that it would be "a bridge" to the next Cup.

“I mean, it’s a bit quirky,” he admits. “But the Cup has always been a bit quirky. It wouldn’t be the first time there had been a duel. The first 100 years were typically duels. And we do genuinely want to level the playing field up, to reduce costs, to make it fairer on other entrants. Nothing would change as far as that's concerned. I’m on record as saying I’d be keen to look at an independent governing body, to make it as fair as possible, although I accept I’m new to this and others with far more history in the Cup enjoy its quirkiness and history.”

Ratcliffe says a decision will need to be made soon, with not much time for Ineos build a new race boat if the 2022 event does happen  ("I don't know whether the Kiwis would build a new boat, because they had a pretty good package this time," he muses. "The best hull, the best foils, the best rig. But we didn’t so we’d need to. We need to take quite a giant step forward.") But either way, he admits he has been smitten – by the Cup, by New Zealand, and by its inhabitants. 

Ratcliffe has spent much of the last three months aboard his superyacht Sherpa, working and touring the country. They managed a complete circumnavigation of the South Island at one point and Ratcliffe was left distinctly impressed. He tells a story about a dinner in a pub on Stewart Island when everyone came up and chatted during the evening. One group of campers even offered to swap their tents for Ratcliffe's yacht for the night. “It was bloody wet and raining," Ratcliffe recalls. "They said 'Look you're obviously getting fed up on that boat...' I’ve been pretty universally impressed by everything I’ve seen here; unfailingly cheerful, chatty, welcoming. But also, they don't have a chip on their shoulder about anything as far as I can see. There's no sense of envy here. I don't get any **** here because I’ve got a boat.”

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13 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

A paywall?  Here you go:

Sir Jim Ratcliffe on continuing America's Cup quest and chance of a 'magical' one-off UK match

Exclusive: The Auld Mug evaded Ineos Team UK this year, but the British billionaire is committed to 'bringing it home' with Ben Ainslie

By Tom Cary, Senior Sports Correspondent 24 March 2021 • 7:41am
Sir Ben Ainslie team principal and helmsman of the British Americas Cup team INEOS Team UK (R) talks with Jim Ratcliffe founder and chairman of INEOS at the 36th America's Cup Overture as part of the launch for the new protocol of the 36th edition of the Americas Cup in 2021 on August 31, 2018 in Cowes, United Kingdo
It appears that sirs Jim Ratcliffe and Ben Ainslie will team up again in the hope of claiming the America's Cup Credit: Lloyd Images /Getty Images Europe 
 

In the end that famous ‘£110 million gin and tonic’, the drink over which Sir Jim Ratcliffe looked into Sir Ben Ainslie’s eyes and agreed to back to his America's Cup team, did not yield the Auld Mug. But nor, apparently, did it leave a bitter aftertaste. “It’s been a thoroughly enjoyable experience,” says Ratcliffe, reflecting on three months in New Zealand watching Ainslie’s team trying but failing to become the first British winners of sport’s oldest international trophy. “We’ve had a great time.”

So great, in fact, the journey is continuing. Ratcliffe, the founder and co-owner of petrochemicals giant Ineos and Britain’s richest man with a personal wealth estimated at some £17 billion, has now agreed to underwrite Ainslie’s next America’s Cup campaign, too. More than that, Ratcliffe and his advisors have been influential in helping to secure ‘Challenger of Record’ status for Ineos Team UK, a status that bestows certain privileges upon the challenging yacht club and should in theory help Britain’s chances of ending 170 years of hurt.

 

Ineos and Cup holders Team New Zealand, who accepted the British challenge after wrapping up a 7-3 victory over previous challenger of record (CoR) Luna Rossa in the 36th match last week, have already made a few announcements regarding their intentions for the next Cup. These include continuing with the current 75-foot foiling monohulls for at least two more cycles as well as various cost-cutting measures designed to attract new blood (Ratcliffe says he would "hope to knock a third off" what he's spending).

But what has really got everyone talking in America’s Cup land, and what I want to discuss with Ratcliffe, are the rumours of a special, one-off match between New Zealand and Britain in the Isle of Wight next year. 

Is the America’s Cup coming home? Ratcliffe says he is unsure. “I’d love to see it happen,” he admits, speaking from his temporary offices in Auckland to which he has relocated with some 30 Ineos staff and their partners. “I think it would be quite magical to have it in the UK after all this time, particularly after Covid. It would be a big thing for the UK, I think. But ultimately it’s up to the Kiwis.”

The idea, if it is signed off, would see the defenders and the CoR face off in a special series at the midway point between now and the next ‘full’ America’s Cup in 2024, which will almost certainly be back in Auckland. It would likely be controversial, excluding as it does any other challengers. While there are many in New Zealand would prefer not to see the Cup risked in a series abroad. But Ratcliffe is hopeful the idea will gain traction, insisting it would be in everyone’s interests.

“The fact is,” he says, “New Zealand are a commercially-funded team. Grant Dalton, their boss, does not have an Ineos behind him. This event, if it happens, would be a platform, which might help them raise funding to keep that team together.”

Ratcliffe says he would not fund the event himself. “Absolutely not,” he says. “I want to be clear about that. Because that would be sort of like buying the Cup into the UK and I don't think that's appropriate.”

 INEOS TEAM UK competes against Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli Team in Round three, race 2 during the 2021 PRADA Cup Round Robins on Auckland Harbour on January 23, 2021 in Auckland, New Zealand
Team Ineos UK lost out to Italian Luna Rossa in the Prada Cup  Credit: Getty Images AsiaPac /Phil Walter 

As defenders and event organisers, though, Dalton would be able to negotiate with commercial partners and local government, charge a hosting fee, deal with broadcasters and so on. Ratcliffe even suggests the UK Government might be keen to support a prestigious global sporting event in that neck of the woods. “There have been many instances where governments have put some money down to attract the Cup to the country because it's good for regeneration,” he says. “I mean, the Isle of Wight and that part of the south coast is not in a great state, so it would bring a bit of a rejuvenation to that area. Why not? 

“I honestly think it would be a great success. You have to remember, due to Covid last year, which forced the cancellation of two planned events [in Cagliari and Portsmouth] nobody in the northern hemisphere has yet seen these boats in action live. They are absolutely incredible, believe me. I think people would be blown away, sailors and non-sailors alike.

“I think if there was effectively a duel between ourselves and the world’s dominant sailing force… I mean, the Kiwis are to sailing  what the All Blacks are to rugby really… to take on the best in the world, on our home waters, 171 years after the America’s Cup was first raced there, would be quite something.” 

Ratcliffe admits they might get “a bit of flak” from other syndicates. But he points out that no one else would really be ready to contest another Cup so soon anyway. And as far as the 2024 event is concerned, nothing would change with Ineos happy to return to Auckland – if that was what New Zealand wanted – regardless of whether they won or lost in Cowes. The idea is more that it would be "a bridge" to the next Cup.

“I mean, it’s a bit quirky,” he admits. “But the Cup has always been a bit quirky. It wouldn’t be the first time there had been a duel. The first 100 years were typically duels. And we do genuinely want to level the playing field up, to reduce costs, to make it fairer on other entrants. Nothing would change as far as that's concerned. I’m on record as saying I’d be keen to look at an independent governing body, to make it as fair as possible, although I accept I’m new to this and others with far more history in the Cup enjoy its quirkiness and history.”

Ratcliffe says a decision will need to be made soon, with not much time for Ineos build a new race boat if the 2022 event does happen  ("I don't know whether the Kiwis would build a new boat, because they had a pretty good package this time," he muses. "The best hull, the best foils, the best rig. But we didn’t so we’d need to. We need to take quite a giant step forward.") But either way, he admits he has been smitten – by the Cup, by New Zealand, and by its inhabitants. 

Ratcliffe has spent much of the last three months aboard his superyacht Sherpa, working and touring the country. They managed a complete circumnavigation of the South Island at one point and Ratcliffe was left distinctly impressed. He tells a story about a dinner in a pub on Stewart Island when everyone came up and chatted during the evening. One group of campers even offered to swap their tents for Ratcliffe's yacht for the night. “It was bloody wet and raining," Ratcliffe recalls. "They said 'Look you're obviously getting fed up on that boat...' I’ve been pretty universally impressed by everything I’ve seen here; unfailingly cheerful, chatty, welcoming. But also, they don't have a chip on their shoulder about anything as far as I can see. There's no sense of envy here. I don't get any **** here because I’ve got a boat.”

I can see why Sir James and GD might get on. I must admit, I'm starting to warm to the guy.

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30 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

But either way, he admits he has been smitten – by the Cup, by New Zealand, and by its inhabitants. 

‘Inhabitants” wtf you can take the colonialist out of Blighty but can’t take the inherent colonialism out of it’s natives.

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his temporary offices in Auckland to which he has relocated with some 30 Ineos staff and their partners." 

Thats some serious shit. His head office is less than that.

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2 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

his temporary offices in Auckland to which he has relocated with some 30 Ineos staff and their partners." 

Thats some serious shit. His head office is less than that.

Didn't Gabe Newell do the same and move a lot of his people to NZ? There must be something in the air that's attracting billionaires :lol:

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54 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

‘Inhabitants” wtf you can take the colonialist out of Blighty but can’t take the inherent colonialism out of it’s natives.

Triggered much? Sheesh!

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35 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

Didn't Gabe Newell do the same and move a lot of his people to NZ? There must be something in the air that's attracting billionaires :lol:

Actually I suspect its something thats not in the air.....

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1 hour ago, MaxHugen said:

A paywall?  Here you go:

Sir Jim Ratcliffe on continuing America's Cup quest and chance of a 'magical' one-off UK match

 

Hey, making disappear the competitors is magical indeed :D

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21 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Hey, making disappear the competitors is magical indeed :D

If the full cup is 2024 and there is a one off match in 2022 between kiwis and poms how are LR damaged ?

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1 minute ago, mako23 said:

If the full cup is 2024 and there is a one off match in 2022 between kiwis and poms how are LR damaged ?

It's more than one year of uncertainty without a proper challenge signed. And moreover, it's jumping a cycle. If the relationship between COR and defender fails it will be a mess for everybody. You have to imagine the same thing done to ETNZ. And this is a precedent that will set the path for more billionaires looking for the shortcut to the Cup. As the NYYC said, it's a huge step in the wrong direction.

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1 hour ago, MaxHugen said:

A paywall?  Here you go:

Sir Jim Ratcliffe on continuing America's Cup quest and chance of a 'magical' one-off UK match

Exclusive: The Auld Mug evaded Ineos Team UK this year, but the British billionaire is committed to 'bringing it home' with Ben Ainslie

By Tom Cary, Senior Sports Correspondent 24 March 2021 • 7:41am
Sir Ben Ainslie team principal and helmsman of the British Americas Cup team INEOS Team UK (R) talks with Jim Ratcliffe founder and chairman of INEOS at the 36th America's Cup Overture as part of the launch for the new protocol of the 36th edition of the Americas Cup in 2021 on August 31, 2018 in Cowes, United Kingdo
It appears that sirs Jim Ratcliffe and Ben Ainslie will team up again in the hope of claiming the America's Cup Credit: Lloyd Images /Getty Images Europe 
 

In the end that famous ‘£110 million gin and tonic’, the drink over which Sir Jim Ratcliffe looked into Sir Ben Ainslie’s eyes and agreed to back to his America's Cup team, did not yield the Auld Mug. But nor, apparently, did it leave a bitter aftertaste. “It’s been a thoroughly enjoyable experience,” says Ratcliffe, reflecting on three months in New Zealand watching Ainslie’s team trying but failing to become the first British winners of sport’s oldest international trophy. “We’ve had a great time.”

So great, in fact, the journey is continuing. Ratcliffe, the founder and co-owner of petrochemicals giant Ineos and Britain’s richest man with a personal wealth estimated at some £17 billion, has now agreed to underwrite Ainslie’s next America’s Cup campaign, too. More than that, Ratcliffe and his advisors have been influential in helping to secure ‘Challenger of Record’ status for Ineos Team UK, a status that bestows certain privileges upon the challenging yacht club and should in theory help Britain’s chances of ending 170 years of hurt.

 

Ineos and Cup holders Team New Zealand, who accepted the British challenge after wrapping up a 7-3 victory over previous challenger of record (CoR) Luna Rossa in the 36th match last week, have already made a few announcements regarding their intentions for the next Cup. These include continuing with the current 75-foot foiling monohulls for at least two more cycles as well as various cost-cutting measures designed to attract new blood (Ratcliffe says he would "hope to knock a third off" what he's spending).

But what has really got everyone talking in America’s Cup land, and what I want to discuss with Ratcliffe, are the rumours of a special, one-off match between New Zealand and Britain in the Isle of Wight next year. 

Is the America’s Cup coming home? Ratcliffe says he is unsure. “I’d love to see it happen,” he admits, speaking from his temporary offices in Auckland to which he has relocated with some 30 Ineos staff and their partners. “I think it would be quite magical to have it in the UK after all this time, particularly after Covid. It would be a big thing for the UK, I think. But ultimately it’s up to the Kiwis.”

The idea, if it is signed off, would see the defenders and the CoR face off in a special series at the midway point between now and the next ‘full’ America’s Cup in 2024, which will almost certainly be back in Auckland. It would likely be controversial, excluding as it does any other challengers. While there are many in New Zealand would prefer not to see the Cup risked in a series abroad. But Ratcliffe is hopeful the idea will gain traction, insisting it would be in everyone’s interests.

“The fact is,” he says, “New Zealand are a commercially-funded team. Grant Dalton, their boss, does not have an Ineos behind him. This event, if it happens, would be a platform, which might help them raise funding to keep that team together.”

Ratcliffe says he would not fund the event himself. “Absolutely not,” he says. “I want to be clear about that. Because that would be sort of like buying the Cup into the UK and I don't think that's appropriate.”

 INEOS TEAM UK competes against Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli Team in Round three, race 2 during the 2021 PRADA Cup Round Robins on Auckland Harbour on January 23, 2021 in Auckland, New Zealand
Team Ineos UK lost out to Italian Luna Rossa in the Prada Cup  Credit: Getty Images AsiaPac /Phil Walter 

As defenders and event organisers, though, Dalton would be able to negotiate with commercial partners and local government, charge a hosting fee, deal with broadcasters and so on. Ratcliffe even suggests the UK Government might be keen to support a prestigious global sporting event in that neck of the woods. “There have been many instances where governments have put some money down to attract the Cup to the country because it's good for regeneration,” he says. “I mean, the Isle of Wight and that part of the south coast is not in a great state, so it would bring a bit of a rejuvenation to that area. Why not? 

“I honestly think it would be a great success. You have to remember, due to Covid last year, which forced the cancellation of two planned events [in Cagliari and Portsmouth] nobody in the northern hemisphere has yet seen these boats in action live. They are absolutely incredible, believe me. I think people would be blown away, sailors and non-sailors alike.

“I think if there was effectively a duel between ourselves and the world’s dominant sailing force… I mean, the Kiwis are to sailing  what the All Blacks are to rugby really… to take on the best in the world, on our home waters, 171 years after the America’s Cup was first raced there, would be quite something.” 

Ratcliffe admits they might get “a bit of flak” from other syndicates. But he points out that no one else would really be ready to contest another Cup so soon anyway. And as far as the 2024 event is concerned, nothing would change with Ineos happy to return to Auckland – if that was what New Zealand wanted – regardless of whether they won or lost in Cowes. The idea is more that it would be "a bridge" to the next Cup.

“I mean, it’s a bit quirky,” he admits. “But the Cup has always been a bit quirky. It wouldn’t be the first time there had been a duel. The first 100 years were typically duels. And we do genuinely want to level the playing field up, to reduce costs, to make it fairer on other entrants. Nothing would change as far as that's concerned. I’m on record as saying I’d be keen to look at an independent governing body, to make it as fair as possible, although I accept I’m new to this and others with far more history in the Cup enjoy its quirkiness and history.”

Ratcliffe says a decision will need to be made soon, with not much time for Ineos build a new race boat if the 2022 event does happen  ("I don't know whether the Kiwis would build a new boat, because they had a pretty good package this time," he muses. "The best hull, the best foils, the best rig. But we didn’t so we’d need to. We need to take quite a giant step forward.") But either way, he admits he has been smitten – by the Cup, by New Zealand, and by its inhabitants. 

Ratcliffe has spent much of the last three months aboard his superyacht Sherpa, working and touring the country. They managed a complete circumnavigation of the South Island at one point and Ratcliffe was left distinctly impressed. He tells a story about a dinner in a pub on Stewart Island when everyone came up and chatted during the evening. One group of campers even offered to swap their tents for Ratcliffe's yacht for the night. “It was bloody wet and raining," Ratcliffe recalls. "They said 'Look you're obviously getting fed up on that boat...' I’ve been pretty universally impressed by everything I’ve seen here; unfailingly cheerful, chatty, welcoming. But also, they don't have a chip on their shoulder about anything as far as I can see. There's no sense of envy here. I don't get any **** here because I’ve got a boat.”

For the first time, im starting to see the positives.

What they are suggesting is that there will be an Americas Cup in New Zealand in 2024.  So a 3 years gap until the next cup.

But as a bridge event , they might host a 1 vs 1 challenge in the Solent.

Pros:

1. It would be a lot more exciting a bridge event than the ACWS .  ASWS is never taken particularly seriously. This would be taken seriously.

2. Sounds like it could allow GD to keep ETNZ together and funded through to the next main event in 2024.

3. Potentially great for NZ in 2024 if an event in UK builds enthusiasm for AC tourism to NZ in 2024.

 

Cons:

1. Excluding other teams might be taken as a slight. 

2. The agreement between Ineos and ETNZ to return to Auk would have to be bullet proof and include a healthy layer of trust as well.   But Sir Jim is known as a "my word is my bond" personality

 

 

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First of all, INEOS was not only beaten, but they were destroyed by LR, and now they get a one off Cup Challenge? I can understand LR wanting and getting one, but INEOS? They deserve nothing because they’ve proved nothing.  Seems like Ratcliffe is willing to give a big F**k you to the Challengers by excluding them, to NZ for taking the Cup to the UK, then to the UK by defending it in NZ! You can’t make this shit up lol

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Just now, strider470 said:

It's more than one year of uncertainty without a proper challenge signed. And moreover, it's jumping a cycle. If the relationship between COR and defender fails it will be a mess for everybody. You have to imagine the same thing done to ETNZ. And this is a precedent that will set the path for more billionaires looking for the shortcut to the Cup. As the NYYC said, it's a huge step in the wrong direction.

I was initially against it......but done right.....I could be persuaded.  Perhaps there is a 2025 1 vs 1 in Italy prior to a full 2026/27 event.

Yes LR would have to trust the word and signed agreement of Ineos that if he won, it would remain AC75 and would return to NZ.

I know, I know...more questions than answers.....but having been against this , I confess that a part of me would really enjoy this than another failing ACWS in New York harbor.

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2 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

I was initially against it......but done right.....I could be persuaded.  Perhaps there is a 2025 1 vs 1 in Italy prior to a full 2026/27 event.

Yes LR would have to trust the word and signed agreement of Ineos that if he won, it would remain AC75 and would return to NZ.

I know, I know...more questions than answers.....but having been against this , I confess that a part of me would really enjoy this than another failing ACWS in New York harbor.

Honestly, I don't want a 1 - 1 in Italy and hosting the Cup here in general  unless we are the rightful defender after winning it on the water.

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

First of all, INEOS was not only beaten, but they were destroyed by LR, and now they get a one off Cup Challenge? I can understand LR wanting and getting one, but INEOS? They deserve nothing because they’ve proved nothing.  Seems like Ratcliffe is willing to give a big F**k you to the Challengers by having some sexcluding them, to NZ for taking the Cup to the UK, then to the UK by defending it in NZ! You can’t make this shit up lol

Ineos are very clear that the decision on the next location will be up to New Zealand.

The UK 1 vs 1 has been rumored in various places but here we have SJR outlining for the first time what that might entail......and its not as bad as I thought and even vaguely tempting.

I still think the more likely outcome is a multi challenge event....but I am no longer as against a bridge event it as I might have been

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3 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Honestly, I don't want a 1 - 1 in Italy and hosting the Cup here in general  unless we are the rightful defender after winning it on the water.

Any interest in hosting a ACWS event?

The Isle of Wight has a bit of historical appeal that might partially  overcome hosting a cup you haven't won.

 

Listen.....Im not jumping up and down in favor of the bridging event...but I am more open to hearing about the idea than I was before.

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1 minute ago, EYESAILOR said:

Any interest in hosting a ACWS event?

Sure. When they hosted them in Naples, with the AC45, they were such a succes of people and for the city, who gained a huge pedestrian zone along the sea. It's still in part like that now!

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36 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

First of all, INEOS was not only beaten, but they were destroyed by LR, and now they get a one off Cup Challenge? I can understand LR wanting and getting one, but INEOS? They deserve nothing because they’ve proved nothing.  Seems like Ratcliffe is willing to give a big F**k you to the Challengers by excluding them, to NZ for taking the Cup to the UK, then to the UK by defending it in NZ! You can’t make this shit up lol

Pretty much the opposite of meritocracy isn't it?

Based on this, they should be giving serious consideration to accepting a 1 vs 1 from Stars & Stripes.

Hey, they don't have a boat but why let performance in the cup affect anything, right? LOL!

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Sir Jim comes out supporting his doping cycling team manager.... Marginal gains?  Sure it happened in the past, before he took the "owner" role but everyone knew SKY riders were on TUEs and now worse evidence given the court case last week... Does it relate to the AC, not really, but it does go to how one plays the game.   Good to see that by not asking his team principal if they were doping he keeps his hands clean - "Ratcliffe said he has not yet spoken to team principal Brailsford after former Team Sky doctor Richard Freeman was struck off by a medical tribunal" 

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/dave-brailsford-has-my-full-support-says-ineos-owner-jim-ratcliffe-494433

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What is this bridge event/full event bullshit and why are people drinking the koolaid?

Both of them are full events, there is no fucking 1/2 AC, exhibition AC or shits and giggles AC, the is just the AC FFS.

Will it really take someone winning a 1/2 AC, exhibition AC or shits and giggles AC turning around and saying, rigtheo it ours now, for people to see this is a bullshit idea?

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2 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

I can see why Sir James and GD might get on. I must admit, I'm starting to warm to the guy.

Grant Dalton & Sir Jim Ratcliffe will try to make 2024 the best Cup possible! But how do you keep the interest up and built upon the success of AC36?
No one is helped when these magnificent AC75 are spent in the boatshed for the next 3 years. The potential 1 - 1 Challenge would most definitly keep the interest among the public going.

The Coverage in the UK, USA during AC36 was pretty much non-existent, very tepid!

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3 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

What is this bridge event/full event bullshit and why are people drinking the koolaid?

Both of them are full events, there is no fucking 1/2 AC, exhibition AC or shits and giggles AC, the is just the AC FFS.

Will it really take someone winning a 1/2 AC, exhibition AC or shits and giggles AC turning around and saying, rigtheo it ours now, for people to see this is a bullshit idea?

There really is no upside is there? 

If ETNZ host the event in a 1 vs 1 in UK and lose, they are well and truly fucked:

* NZ people and Government will shun them once and for all.

* They will lack the leverage of current cup holder to take into any negotiations with sponsors.

* Jim Ratcliffe seems to have squashed the idea of INEOS providing funding for the event.

 

So this can surely only be a bargaining chip to use against the NZ government.

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@jaysper

Whether it's a bargaining chip or not these AC75 need to race again! Waiting until 2023 or 2024 to have any AC-related Event is bad.

The ACWS Event in between AC34 and AC35 were the best thing that ever happened to the Cup and so were the LV Acts between 2004-2007!

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Just now, dg_sailingfan said:

@jaysper

Whether it's a bargaining chip or not these AC75 need to race again! Waiting until 2023 or 2024 to have any AC-related Event is bad.

I agree, but it should be an ACWS event buildingto 2024 by which time new competitors will have been given sufficient time to establish teams and build a boat.

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2 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

@jaysper

Whether it's a bargaining chip or not these AC75 need to race again! Waiting until 2023 or 2024 to have any AC-related Event is bad.

It's like suggesting to shoot at the crowd because if you don't use the gun for a while it gets rusted. ;) The intent is good, but the way is not.

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1 minute ago, jaysper said:

I agree, but it should be an ACWS event buildingto 2024 by which time new competitors will have been given sufficient time to establish teams and build a boat.

COVID19 pretty much dictates what will happen with any Sporting Events over the next few years. How do you find a "Safe City/Town" in the Northern Hemisphere within a convinient Time Zone to host an ACWS Event.

They cannot afford having a similar scenario to what happened with Cagliari & Portsmouth 2020. You put all the effort in to host the Event and then you have to blow it off because of COVID!

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9 minutes ago, jaysper said:

There really is no upside is there? 

If ETNZ host the event in a 1 vs 1 in UK and lose, they are well and truly fucked:

* NZ people and Government will shun them once and for all.

* They will lack the leverage of current cup holder to take into any negotiations with sponsors.

* Jim Ratcliffe seems to have squashed the idea of INEOS providing funding for the event.

 

So this can surely only be a bargaining chip to use against the NZ government.

Frankly, if I was the NZL gov I would be saying to GD, "well mate, you seem to have your funding so there will be nothing from the NZL people, have a great Cup in the UK and good luck"

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1 minute ago, dg_sailingfan said:

COVID19 pretty much dictates what will happen with any Sporting Events over the next few years. How do you find a "Safe City/Town" in the Northern Hemisphere within a convinient Time Zone to host an ACWS Event.

They cannot afford having a similar scenario to what happened with Cagliari & Portsmouth 2020. You put all the effort in to host the Event and then you have to blow it off because of COVID!

How is a BullshitAC any different?

 

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Ratcliffe may be a billionaire, but he’s an amateur when it comes to the AC. By this statement, anyone of us on SA could tell him it’s a fucking bad idea for GD, NZ, Britain ETNZ and INEOS Team UK. No one wins anything from it in any shape of form. Ratcliffe wants a 1 on 1 race in the UK, giving the finger to NZ, but Ratcliffe isnt prepared to fund it, so someone still has to pay for it, so he wants Dalton to negotiate with commercial benefactors (in other words pay for it) then come back to NZ where ETNZ runs the risk of not only no Government financial contribution but having potentially hostile public reaction and a smaller pool of challenging teams, while still having to find money to pay for that too! Meanwhile the UK crowd is left high and dry again even if they win the DoG match! Seems like a lose/ lose deal to pretty much everyone, all so Ratcliffe gets his little bit of “Magic”

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1 hour ago, EYESAILOR said:

influential in helping to secure ‘Challenger of Record’ status for Ineos Team UK, a status that bestows certain privileges upon the challenging yacht club and should in theory help Britain’s chances of ending 170 years of hurt.

Do these idiot journos not look up any history before writing articles press releases?

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Ratcliffe may be a billionaire, but he’s an amateur when it comes to the AC. By this statement, anyone of us on SA could tell him it’s a fucking bad idea for GD, NZ, Britain ETNZ and INEOS Team UK. No one wins anything from it in any shape of form. Ratcliffe wants a 1 on 1 race in the UK, giving the finger to NZ, but Ratcliffe isnt prepared to fund it, so someone still has to pay for it, so he wants Dalton to negotiate with commercial benefactors (in other words pay for it) then come back to NZ where ETNZ runs the risk of not only no Government financial contribution but having potentially hostile public reaction and a smaller pool of challenging teams, while still having to find money to pay for that too! Meanwhile the UK crowd is left high and dry again even if they win the DoG match! Seems like a lose/ lose deal to pretty much everyone, all so Ratcliffe gets his little bit of “Magic”

There will be an Event in Portsmouth no matter what! As Ratcliffe pointed out there were supposed to be two ACWS Events in Cagliari and Portsmouth 2020.
Maybe instead of a DoG 1 - 1 Challenge there will be a ACWS Event!

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1 minute ago, dg_sailingfan said:

There will be an Event in Portsmouth no matter what! As Ratcliffe pointed out there were supposed to be two ACWS Events in Cagliari and Portsmouth 2020.
Maybe instead of a DoG 1 - 1 Challenge there will be a ACWS Event!

That would be great!

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