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5 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Luna Rossa wasn't the most competitive Challenger in Auckland when you take away that they a Head Start with the AC75 Design Rule. They were not dangerous to ETNZ at all. INEOS & AM were most disadvantaged during AC36!

Luna Rossa will lose some advantages anyways.

Matteo de Nora: It was nice to have them (LR) as opponents, but in my opinion they were the least dangerous team. The Americans were the fastest and the British had the best team. All the regattas took place with the target wind of Luna Rossa. I was amazed at how easily we won when we decided to attack despite the light wind. In any case, all beautiful regattas.

https://farevela.net/2021/03/20/americas-cup-intervista-a-matteo-de-nora-etnz-piu-veloce-e-lidea-di-un-match-a-due-con-ineos-ce/?fbclid=IwAR2GP1oTIbOk7smmpa96EZl_UWP5Q2s53Dc7PRo6BfmOxsiaQSAiX5bxN2w

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shes legit ... foil arm looks to be in the front end of the box ... opposite of all other teams ... what are we going to read into that?

ETNZ are probably favorites .....but win or lose....Team New Zealand have firmly established themselves as the all time great AC nation in the modern era.   From the time they first emerged, they have

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52 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

So given that Ratcliffe has said they would build a new boat for the Deed of gift match, one would assume they’d build another new boat for AC37. So by virtue of the 1 on 1 deed of gift match, they would have two new AC75’s to each of the AC37 teams one. If I was Dalton, I’d sign up for the DoG match on the condition: that INEOS use one of their existing AC75’s.

He stated that not building two boats would save 30% of the budget and he's quite strong on his bottom lines. 

Another factor would be hull designs would be pretty well understood by now, so systems, foils and especially rigs are the main dev areas.

 

Lastly not really AC but I suspect hes looking at NZ investment wise. He's got 30 Ineos people working from a temporary Auckland office, been around the South Island and he doesn't do holidays. Maybe a cracking plant near a deep water port which would take in his US shale Ethanol then export output to the Aus/far east. He's already built eight ethanol tankers. That would be a 2 billion investment bottom of the South Island.

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25 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

Matteo de Nora: It was nice to have them (LR) as opponents, but in my opinion they were the least dangerous team. The Americans were the fastest and the British had the best team. All the regattas took place with the target wind of Luna Rossa. I was amazed at how easily we won when we decided to attack despite the light wind. In any case, all beautiful regattas.

https://farevela.net/2021/03/20/americas-cup-intervista-a-matteo-de-nora-etnz-piu-veloce-e-lidea-di-un-match-a-due-con-ineos-ce/?fbclid=IwAR2GP1oTIbOk7smmpa96EZl_UWP5Q2s53Dc7PRo6BfmOxsiaQSAiX5bxN2w

De Nora seems to lack the ability to shut his mouth.

How utterly ungracious. Fuckhead.

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11 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

He stated that not building two boats would save 30% of the budget and he's quite strong on his bottom lines. 

I believe one boat will save precisely fuck all.

Teams will always spend as much as they can get hold of.

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51 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

So given that Ratcliffe has said they would build a new boat for the Deed of gift match, one would assume they’d build another new boat for AC37. So by virtue of the 1 on 1 deed of gift match, they would have two new AC75’s to each of the AC37 teams one. If I was Dalton, I’d sign up for the DoG match on the condition: that INEOS use one of their existing AC75’s.

A DoG Challenge would have massive Advantages for both, ETNZ and ITUK! Both Teams could built 2 new AC75 Class Boats, one for the 1 - 1 (AC37) and one for the conventional Cup in 2024 (AC38) while LRPP & AM for example could built only one new boat. That is a huge Advantage. If you are the Defender you rig the Advantages into your favour as much as possible if you can.

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

A DoG Challenge would have massive Advantages for both, ETNZ and ITUK! Both Teams could built 2 new AC75 Class Boats, one for the 1 - 1 (AC37) and one for the conventional Cup in 2024 (AC38) while LRPP & AM for example could built only one new boat. That is a huge Advantage. If you are the Defender you rig the Advantages into your favour as much as possible if you can.

If it is a DoG boat, they can build anything they want within the waterline limits of the DoG.

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7 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

........ There is definitly some bad blood between the Brits and the Italians.

There's bad blood between the Brits and just about everyone else in Europe at the moment! :mellow:

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2 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

A DoG Challenge would have massive Advantages for both, ETNZ and ITUK! Both Teams could built 2 new AC75 Class Boats, one for the 1 - 1 (AC37) and one for the conventional Cup in 2024 (AC38) while LRPP & AM for example could built only one new boat. That is a huge Advantage. If you are the Defender you rig the Advantages into your favour as much as possible if you can.

Actually, as LR and AM wouldn't be involved in AC37, they can build as many AC75s and foils as they like.

Only when the protocol for AC38 comes out will they be bound by its rules.

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2 hours ago, chesirecat said:

Matteo de Nora: It was nice to have them (LR) as opponents, but in my opinion they were the least dangerous team. The Americans were the fastest and the British had the best team. All the regattas took place with the target wind of Luna Rossa. I was amazed at how easily we won when we decided to attack despite the light wind. In any case, all beautiful regattas.

https://farevela.net/2021/03/20/americas-cup-intervista-a-matteo-de-nora-etnz-piu-veloce-e-lidea-di-un-match-a-due-con-ineos-ce/?fbclid=IwAR2GP1oTIbOk7smmpa96EZl_UWP5Q2s53Dc7PRo6BfmOxsiaQSAiX5bxN2w

Matteo de Nora is more anti-Italian than some (very few) fanboys here

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3 hours ago, Forourselves said:

So given that Ratcliffe has said they would build a new boat for the Deed of gift match, one would assume they’d build another new boat for AC37. So by virtue of the 1 on 1 deed of gift match, they would have two new AC75’s to each of the AC37 teams one. If I was Dalton, I’d sign up for the DoG match on the condition: that INEOS use one of their existing AC75’s.

Where in the pay wall article does he explicitly state he has issued a DOG challenge... 

no thought not. 

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1 minute ago, dogwatch said:

What basis do you have for saying that?

What I wrote was actually exaggerated. But I never heard words of pride or encouragement from him towards Italian teams. Normally Italians abroad maintain a strong bond and affection with their Country.

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15 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Have INEOS issued a specific DOG challenge? Nope. 

I know, I was trying to point that out to dg in a perhaps too subtle way.

For some reason people keep conflating 1 vs 1 with DoG.

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23 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Where in the pay wall article does he explicitly state he has issued a DOG challenge... 

no thought not. 

Ratcliffe told The Telegraph the deed of gift challenge on the Solent would be “a bridge” to the 2024 full regatta that the paper reported “would almost certainly be held in Auckland”.
Ratcliffe, worth a reported $34b as founder and co-owner of petrochemicals giant Ineos, said he wouldn’t be funding the deed of gift challenge.

“Absolutely not. I want to be clear about that. Because that would be sort of like buying the Cup into the UK and I don't think that's appropriate,”

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3 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Ratcliffe told The Telegraph the deed of gift challenge on the Solent would be “a bridge” to the 2024 full regatta that the paper reported “would almost certainly be held in Auckland”.
Ratcliffe, worth a reported $34b as founder and co-owner of petrochemicals giant Ineos, said he wouldn’t be funding the deed of gift challenge.

“Absolutely not. I want to be clear about that. Because that would be sort of like buying the Cup into the UK and I don't think that's appropriate,”

So, I'm asking, where is all the advantage for ETNZ?

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IMO It can't be a 1 on 1 match without being a Deed of gift match because of the paragraph below:

"Any organized Yacht Club of a foreign country, incorporated, patented, or licensed by the
legislature, admiralty, or other executive department, having for its annual regatta an
ocean water course on the sea, or on an arm of the sea, or one which combines both,
shall always be entitled to the right of sailing a match of this Cup, with a yacht or vessel
propelled by sails only and constructed in the country to which the Challenging Club
belongs, against any one yacht or vessel constructed in the country of the Club holding the
Cup."

IMO this means RNZYS can not decline entries as long as those entries meet the criteria in the DoG and the protocol.

The DoG takes precedence when the Defender and Challenger can not agree, and that match is outlined in the DoG. 

It seems there is no provision in the DoG for a "mutual consent" Deed of gift match, as it would exclude other DoG compliant Challengers, which is against

1) The intent of the Deed:

"This Cup is donated upon the conditions that it shall be preserved as a perpetual
Challenge Cup for friendly competition between foreign countries"

and 

2) The Criteria for acceptance of challengers:

Any organized Yacht Club of a foreign country... shall always be entitled to the right of sailing a match of this Cup...

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Ratcliffe told The Telegraph the deed of gift challenge on the Solent would be “a bridge” to the 2024 full regatta that the paper reported “would almost certainly be held in Auckland”.
Ratcliffe, worth a reported $34b as founder and co-owner of petrochemicals giant Ineos, said he wouldn’t be funding the deed of gift challenge.

“Absolutely not. I want to be clear about that. Because that would be sort of like buying the Cup into the UK and I don't think that's appropriate,”

I re read the article and it doesn’t state that, 

Whatever you are quoting from has added in the DOG bit and converted his wealth from £17 billion in the original to $34 billion

why would his interview with the telegraph reference itself? 

Fuckery abounds.. 

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18 minutes ago, strider470 said:

I mean, what can they gain defending in UK if it is not for money, needed to fund the team?

Thats the same question I'm asking as well.

To me, no one gains anything.

IF it happens at the Isle of Wight, Ratcliffe isn't paying, so who pays? Not sure that the Isle of Wight County Council would be too keen on that idea.

Sponsors? Some other billionaire? Yeah right.

So who's left? ETNZ and GD?

Why? If they can't afford to pay for an Americas Cup event in their home country, why would they go overseas and pay for one in the UK while risking the Cup? 

Can't see it happening.

 

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5 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Thats the same question I'm asking as well.

To me, no one gains anything.

IF it happens at the Isle of Wight, Ratcliffe isn't paying, so who pays? Not sure that the Isle of Wight County Council would be too keen on that idea.

Sponsors? Some other billionaire? Yeah right.

So who's left? ETNZ and GD?

Why? If they can't afford to pay for an Americas Cup event in their home country, why would they go overseas and pay for one in the UK while risking the Cup? 

Can't see it happening.

 

Yep. Seems like an idle threat to get Cindy over the line with some funding and let's face it, she is piss weak and will likely fold.

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4 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

I re read the article and it doesn’t state that, 

Whatever you are quoting from has added in the DOG bit and converted his wealth from £17 billion in the original to $34 billion

why would his interview with the telegraph reference itself? 

Fuckery abounds.. 

The way I read the DoG, a 1 on 1 match can only be had if the 2 teams don't agree.

Otherwise RNZYS must accept any and all DoG compliant Challengers. 

They can't just choose to ignore compliant challengers.

 

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7 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

IMO It can't be a 1 on 1 match without being a Deed of gift match because of the paragraph below:

"Any organized Yacht Club of a foreign country, incorporated, patented, or licensed by the
legislature, admiralty, or other executive department, having for its annual regatta an
ocean water course on the sea, or on an arm of the sea, or one which combines both,
shall always be entitled to the right of sailing a match of this Cup, with a yacht or vessel
propelled by sails only and constructed in the country to which the Challenging Club
belongs, against any one yacht or vessel constructed in the country of the Club holding the
Cup."

IMO this means RNZYS can not decline entries as long as those entries meet the criteria in the DoG and the protocol.

The DoG takes precedence when the Defender and Challenger can not agree, and that match is outlined in the DoG. 

It seems there is no provision in the DoG for a "mutual consent" Deed of gift match, as it would exclude other DoG compliant Challengers, which is against

1) The intent of the Deed:

"This Cup is donated upon the conditions that it shall be preserved as a perpetual
Challenge Cup for friendly competition between foreign countries"

and 

2) The Criteria for acceptance of challengers:

Any organized Yacht Club of a foreign country... shall always be entitled to the right of sailing a match of this Cup...

 

 

What? A mutual consent 1:1 is exactly what the Deed is describing as normal and desirable. Multiple challenges are not part of the DoG, they came way later than the DoG was written. 

In fact, the CSS should not even be part of the AC festivities, because the AC is always a simple challenger vs defender. 

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Just now, Rennmaus said:

What? A mutual consent 1:1 is exactly what the Deed is describing as normal and desirable. Multiple challenges are not part of the DoG, they came way later than the DoG was written. 

In fact, the CSS should not even be part of the AC festivities, because the AC is always a simple challenger vs defender. 

"Normal" and "Desirable" are not mentioned anywhere in the DoG.

The DoG is clear, that as long as Challenges meet the DoG criteria, they must accept those challenges.

Once the entry period opens, they can't just choose to ignore them.

They have to accept the Challenge until the Challenge is decided.

 

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12 hours ago, jaysper said:

That's pretty much my feeling too.

GD has played this game so many times before, it is just old and stale now.

It seems that ETNZ has proven that a commercially funded team is not possible, so perhaps its time to not bother any more?

Oh bollocks. He’s proven time and time again that a commercially funded team is possibly. Just that a small amount of that comes from nz Govners. 
Call it 100 mill for AC36 and how much exactly was not commercially sourced?

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9 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

The ACWS in Portsmouth (pre-pandemic) gained small attendance too. That ACWS in Naples was fantastic, it eclipses any AC event I can think of in the past 15 years. 
 

Selling this sailboat race to NZ govt and Auk govt is gonna be a hard-sell. People didn’t actually care much. 

How the fuck would you know what nz people care about. 

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25 minutes ago, JJD said:

Call it 100 mill for AC36 and how much exactly was not commercially sourced?

I don't know, why don't you tell us? Money from $B benefactors is not "commercial".

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9 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

The ACWS in Portsmouth (pre-pandemic) gained small attendance too. That ACWS in Naples was fantastic, it eclipses any AC event I can think of in the past 15 years. 
 

Selling this sailboat race to NZ govt and Auk govt is gonna be a hard-sell. People didn’t actually care much. 

Sorry were you in Portsmouth for the ACWS? 

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48 minutes ago, JJD said:

Oh bollocks. He’s proven time and time again that a commercially funded team is possibly. Just that a small amount of that comes from nz Govners. 
Call it 100 mill for AC36 and how much exactly was not commercially sourced?

No, time and time again, like pretty much every time a Cup is done he has cried poor to the NZL people and said bail me out or we shut.

How the fuck is that a good commercial model. Putting your hand out pretty much every cycle, regardless of the amount proves it is not a successful commercial model.

I have no problem with public money going to it BTW, the country does benefit. The way GD does it sucks, he preys on the sporting pride of his country.

He is nothing more than a stand over merchant. If Emirates is out this time as I think they are, he is fucked.

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7 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

No, time and time again, like pretty much every time a Cup is done he has cried poor to the NZL people and said bail me out or we shut.

How the fuck is that a good commercial model. Putting your hand out pretty much every cycle, regardless of the amount proves it is not a successful commercial model.

I have no problem with public money going to it BTW, the country does benefit. The way GD does it sucks, he preys on the sporting pride of his country.

He is nothing more than a stand over merchant. If Emirates is out this time as I think they are, he is fucked.

If the best and most winning AC team in recent AC history struggle to fund their campaigns with commercial sponsors, I think nobody else could, using the same business model.

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3 hours ago, Forourselves said:

"Normal" and "Desirable" are not mentioned anywhere in the DoG.

The DoG is clear, that as long as Challenges meet the DoG criteria, they must accept those challenges.

Once the entry period opens, they can't just choose to ignore them.

They have to accept the Challenge until the Challenge is decided.

 

Yes, one (1) challenge, not multiple challenges.

Then I misunderstood your post, apologies, I thought that you meant that the defender has to accept all challenges by different yacht clubs for one and the same AC.

Edited by Rennmaus
added: by different yacht clubs
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4 hours ago, Forourselves said:

The way I read the DoG, a 1 on 1 match can only be had if the 2 teams don't agree.

Otherwise RNZYS must accept any and all DoG compliant Challengers. 

They can't just choose to ignore compliant challengers.

 

You quoted the NZ herald article, that embellished what was actually In The direct telegraph interview..

sneaky.. ;-) 

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19 hours ago, Paddywackery said:

Didn't Gabe Newell do the same and move a lot of his people to NZ? There must be something in the air that's attracting billionaires :lol:

No covid who's eager to move back to the pandemic 

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5 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Thats the same question I'm asking as well.

To me, no one gains anything.

IF it happens at the Isle of Wight, Ratcliffe isn't paying, so who pays? Not sure that the Isle of Wight County Council would be too keen on that idea.

Sponsors? Some other billionaire? Yeah right.

So who's left? ETNZ and GD?

Why? If they can't afford to pay for an Americas Cup event in their home country, why would they go overseas and pay for one in the UK while risking the Cup? 

Can't see it happening.

 

Maybe they plan to charge the US viewers $500 this time. Should collect at least $10,000.

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7 hours ago, jaysper said:

Yep. Seems like an idle threat to get Cindy over the line with some funding and let's face it, she is piss weak and will likely fold.

Agree, but the sticky point of government oversight remains - and this time public funds would have to be preponderant

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1 minute ago, Xlot said:

Agree, but the sticky point of government oversight remains - and this time public funds would have to be preponderant

This Labour government was spending money like Nicholas Cage on speed PRIOR coronavirus.

They've since printed $60 Billion (I think) with more to come, so I would be surprised if they don't shake their money maker.

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On 3/25/2021 at 1:15 PM, dg_sailingfan said:

 because Ratcliffe doesn't want Luna Rossa in the next Cup:D

Why would he. Prada schooled them last time and will do so again given the chance. So standard pommy rig the game to win shit. Like most sports, the only way they can do any good.

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12 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Why would he. Prada schooled them last time and will do so again given the chance. So standard pommy rig the game to win shit. Like most sports, the only way they can do any good.

Quite an irony coming from you here! Luna Rossa rigged the Game in the most obscure way for AC36. They did not fulfil their Duties as CoR. A Challenger of Record is usually the Chief Negotiator between the Defender and all the Challengers in the Event. What did they do? For the most part in this Cycle they only negotiated between themselves and ETNZ without even consulting INEOS & American Magic. ITUK & AM did not even have a vote. There is a reason ITUK only congratulated ETNZ after they won the Final Point they needed and left the Italians out completely.

What Ratcliffe, Ainslie are doing now is just "Payback" and I don't blame them.

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30 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Quite an irony coming from you here! Luna Rossa rigged the Game in the most obscure way for AC36. They did not fulfil their Duties as CoR. A Challenger of Record is usually the Chief Negotiator between the Defender and all the Challengers in the Event. What did they do? For the most part in this Cycle they only negotiated between themselves and ETNZ without even consulting INEOS & American Magic. ITUK & AM did not even have a vote. There is a reason ITUK only congratulated ETNZ after they won the Final Point they needed and left the Italians out completely.

What Ratcliffe, Ainslie are doing now is just "Payback" and I don't blame them.

Please show me where they failed to fulfill their duties?  The other teams had no vote to be taken from them. You just seem to have a hard on for them because they followed the rules and schooled Ben and his pasty pommy crew.

As for being proud that the whinny Poms couldn't have the decency to say anything to the Italians shows what a waste of a good skin you are. A bitter little prick living in the past of pommy greatest. Willing to be a complete asshole rather than have to admit you team were fucking useless. Much like last time, in fact like every time they have been involved. :lol: Can't see it changing any time soon if they need supporters like you.

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29 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Please show me where they failed to fulfill their duties?  The other teams had no vote to be taken from them. You just seem to have a hard on for them because they followed the rules and schooled Ben and his pasty pommy crew.

As for being proud that the whinny Poms couldn't have the decency to say anything to the Italians shows what a waste of a good skin you are. A bitter little prick living in the past of pommy greatest. Willing to be a complete asshole rather than have to admit you team were fucking useless. Much like last time, in fact like every time they have been involved. :lol: Can't see it changing any time soon if they need supporters like you.

Don't bit. I think some Italian kicked her in the vagina at some time.

Very bitter.

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18 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Maybe the Italian threw up a little when the offer of English sex was proposed. 

I think English food would do that, no?

I shouldn't mock poms, its just this (presumed) pom really.

Its quite strange, only has sand in his vagina about Italy.

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21 hours ago, jaysper said:

I know, I was trying to point that out to dg in a perhaps too subtle way.

For some reason people keep conflating 1 vs 1 with DoG.

Nothing confusing about it. A DoG challenge is between two qualifying clubs, who, through MC, decide the terms of the challenge. If they can't agree, the Deed provides guidelines...or not.

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4 hours ago, jaysper said:

I think English food would do that, no?

I shouldn't mock poms, its just this (presumed) pom really.

Its quite strange, only has sand in his vagina about Italy.

DG? He is German Swiss/ euro hybrid confused as fuck. 
 

as for Gissse, calm down a touch eh? 

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6 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Quite an irony coming from you here! Luna Rossa rigged the Game in the most obscure way for AC36. They did not fulfil their Duties as CoR. A Challenger of Record is usually the Chief Negotiator between the Defender and all the Challengers in the Event. What did they do? For the most part in this Cycle they only negotiated between themselves and ETNZ without even consulting INEOS & American Magic. ITUK & AM did not even have a vote. There is a reason ITUK only congratulated ETNZ after they won the Final Point they needed and left the Italians out completely.

What Ratcliffe, Ainslie are doing now is just "Payback" and I don't blame them.

I've found this definition on the Merriam-Webster Dictionary looking for "sore loser"

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3 hours ago, Gissie said:

Thanks for the advice, but nah.

ok, hey you want to go at DG sailing fanny? go for your life, just don't go confusing him with anyone British or an INEOS supporter. professional troll but not a supporter.

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9 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

ok, hey you want to go at DG sailing fanny? go for your life, just don't go confusing him with anyone British or an INEOS supporter. professional troll but not a supporter.

Fair call. DG must have a sorry little basement setup to be such a whiner. As they say, he needs to get a hobby as he sure as fuck doesn't have a life.

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18 hours ago, strider470 said:

I've found this definition on the Merriam-Webster Dictionary looking for "sore loser"

Really? I found it in the Oxford Dictionary for cock sucker.

Funny how different words can have the same meaning.

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3 hours ago, 45Roller said:

Four years in the making 

 

Really good vid, thanks.

I have to say, I really admire the team and it's dogged determination to take an absolute dog of a boat and completely transform it in such a short time.

Yes, it was slower but it actually won a race which is something you would never have thought it could based on initial performances.

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Didn't I read somewhere that they have admitted their mistake (or one of). At the beginning they could see the advantage of sailing low and gaining end plate but could see no way stable enough flight could be achieved to bother chasing the idea. The others all did.

One, at the time supposedly small, decision that came back to bite them in the arse. AC is a cruel mistress, there is not enough time to recover, once the games begin, from a mistake made years ago.

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It will be interesting to see what design team they put together for AC37.

It always struck me as ironic the Team GBR had a NZ design head and Team NZ had a British design head.

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11 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

It will be interesting to see what design team they put together for AC37.

It always struck me as ironic the Team GBR had a NZ design head and Team NZ had a British design head.

No swapsies.

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On 3/26/2021 at 8:47 PM, Gissie said:

Fair call. DG must have a sorry little basement setup to be such a whiner. As they say, he needs to get a hobby as he sure as fuck doesn't have a life.

He’s got prior history, the last Volvo and the AC before that. 

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Interesting their B2 was designed for part non foiling racing which going off weather data could a reasonable call. Then ETNZ's first boat was designed for full foiling so a big rethink and not much time to do it. As Ratcliffe said that was 30 million down the tubes. Merc only came in for B2 so they were well behind targets. The Xmas reggatta, Prada Cup and AC itself were predominantly light winds along with a relative absence of sea breezes. Maybe locals will come in and say this is normal but it would be a big call to bet a campaign on three 10 day regattas being marginal winds 3 years out.  Been interesting if they had 30% of the  races in the upper half of the regatta and predominantly Course C.

 

Meanwhile wonder what Ratcliffe is doing with 30 of his Ineos folk holed up in an Office in Auckland. Bet the NZ Gov know.

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1 minute ago, Randro said:

That's fucking disgraceful.

30 Million earned from fucking the planet, makes it worse.

Oh behave like any of the teams sponsors are moral guardians, unless you win it’s a lot more than 30mil down the shitter 

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55 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Never been one for exaggeration have you... 

how’s  the break up with Magnus? Given your return here I guess it’s final? 

I was more thinking of Bolsonaro. Putin, any mass murderer, school shooter, child molester, but apparently I have the wrong perspective. 

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1 hour ago, Rennmaus said:

I was more thinking of Bolsonaro. Putin, any mass murderer, school shooter, child molester, but apparently I have the wrong perspective. 

well you need to add me ahead of that list apparently, I think his sense of perspective has been altered sat in mummy's basement

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She says rich people who are known to avoid tax should be seen as “social pariahs … a national disgrace, not heroes”. Some of the wealthiest Britons are no longer based in the UK, which allows them to make significant tax savings. Sir James Ratcliffe, the UK’s richest person and a high-profile Brexiter, last year quit Britain for tax-free Monaco. It has been estimated that the move will ultimately save him £4bn in tax payments. Other rich Britons who have moved to Monaco include the former Topshop boss Sir Philip Green and his wife, Tina; the property billionaires Simon and David Reuben; John Hargreaves, the founder and chairman of Matalan; and Formula One driver Lewis Hamilton. In 2019, John Caudwell, the billionaire founder of Phones4u, vowed to join them in Monaco if Labour was elected and raised taxes.

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2 hours ago, barfy said:

She says rich people who are known to avoid tax should be seen as “social pariahs … a national disgrace, not heroes”. Some of the wealthiest Britons are no longer based in the UK, which allows them to make significant tax savings. Sir James Ratcliffe, the UK’s richest person and a high-profile Brexiter, last year quit Britain for tax-free Monaco. It has been estimated that the move will ultimately save him £4bn in tax payments. Other rich Britons who have moved to Monaco include the former Topshop boss Sir Philip Green and his wife, Tina; the property billionaires Simon and David Reuben; John Hargreaves, the founder and chairman of Matalan; and Formula One driver Lewis Hamilton. In 2019, John Caudwell, the billionaire founder of Phones4u, vowed to join them in Monaco if Labour was elected and raised taxes.

As the article states. She would have been a billionaire in her own right if she hadn’t started giving money away in her 20s... she has given away 72mil? 
 

1 billion - 72mil? Go careful love you will be destitute if you keep going at that rate.. 

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15 hours ago, barfy said:

She says rich people who are known to avoid tax should be seen as “social pariahs … a national disgrace, not heroes”. Some of the wealthiest Britons are no longer based in the UK, which allows them to make significant tax savings. Sir James Ratcliffe, the UK’s richest person and a high-profile Brexiter, last year quit Britain for tax-free Monaco. It has been estimated that the move will ultimately save him £4bn in tax payments. Other rich Britons who have moved to Monaco include the former Topshop boss Sir Philip Green and his wife, Tina; the property billionaires Simon and David Reuben; John Hargreaves, the founder and chairman of Matalan; and Formula One driver Lewis Hamilton. In 2019, John Caudwell, the billionaire founder of Phones4u, vowed to join them in Monaco if Labour was elected and raised taxes.

Ahh the politics of envy. I would move to save 4Bn.

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13 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

As the article states. She would have been a billionaire in her own right if she hadn’t started giving money away in her 20s... she has given away 72mil? 
 

1 billion - 72mil? Go careful love you will be destitute if you keep going at that rate.. 

I hope Jim stays abroad so he can keep that 4B available to sponsor Ben.

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30 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Might need more than that if Ben wants to be more than flower girl at the main event...

Or  2B plus to build an Ethane cracker or  hydrogen value chain in NZ

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1 hour ago, chesirecat said:

Or  2B plus to build an Ethane cracker or  hydrogen value chain in NZ

Throw in an extra half a bill for a 'consultancy' position for Dalts and he might throw the cup as well.

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1 hour ago, chesirecat said:

Or  2B plus to build an Ethane cracker or  hydrogen value chain in NZ

That would be nice.

Care to add more context as a quick search fails to provide me with any.

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2 hours ago, barfy said:

That would be nice.

Care to add more context as a quick search fails to provide me with any.

Nothing in the press but I noted he's got some 30 from the Ineos group in his Auckland office. They wont be anybodies, just on getting them through quarantine, visa's etc. Must be something in it for NZ Gov,  so why?

Next looking at the way Ineos is developing and his modus operandi. He invests in the bottom cycles operating globally and he operates the most efficient crackers in the industry -(with the highest safety records as he links safety to productivity). He ships ethane from shale fomr the states as its the cheapest place to get it but processes it in Holland where euro ethane costs three times more. He built special tankers to do it.  Crackers emit methane but methane can be used to create hydrogen where he's also heavily investing. Hydrogen is going to be big especially as batteries are becoming toxic in more ways than one.

If he wants to export to the far east and he's got plenty of cheap shale oil from the US, where would be a good place to build a combines cracking and hydrogen plant, which has a relatively unused deepwater port and under developed with good export relations to the far east?

 

Last, he took a tour of the SI in his yacht. People like him just don't wander off on a little cruise, they've got business to do. 

2000 jobs for the cracking plant, up to a 1000 for the hydrogen stuff, plus a power station plus infrastructure in NZ SI. Not  to mention his expanding plastic recycling operations.

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8 hours ago, chesirecat said:

Nothing in the press but I noted he's got some 30 from the Ineos group in his Auckland office. They wont be anybodies, just on getting them through quarantine, visa's etc. Must be something in it for NZ Gov,  so why?

Next looking at the way Ineos is developing and his modus operandi. He invests in the bottom cycles operating globally and he operates the most efficient crackers in the industry -(with the highest safety records as he links safety to productivity). He ships ethane from shale fomr the states as its the cheapest place to get it but processes it in Holland where euro ethane costs three times more. He built special tankers to do it.  Crackers emit methane but methane can be used to create hydrogen where he's also heavily investing. Hydrogen is going to be big especially as batteries are becoming toxic in more ways than one.

If he wants to export to the far east and he's got plenty of cheap shale oil from the US, where would be a good place to build a combines cracking and hydrogen plant, which has a relatively unused deepwater port and under developed with good export relations to the far east?

 

Last, he took a tour of the SI in his yacht. People like him just don't wander off on a little cruise, they've got business to do. 

2000 jobs for the cracking plant, up to a 1000 for the hydrogen stuff, plus a power station plus infrastructure in NZ SI. Not  to mention his expanding plastic recycling operations.

Interesting. I found a fair bit of work done in NZ using your keys, I just couldn't connect any dots. To me the market as always in NZ is...too small to be of interest to the whales.

As to his office crew, yes there may be work of interest to NZ being done. Or just taxes on wages and an end date for visas in the future. Better work here with possibly no disruptions rather than..anywhere else. Any idea if all the other team's crew have left, or of visa end dates?

Anyway, I reckon your theory of the fracker jim doing dogs work for the NZ Gov has little substance to back it up.

Edit: on a second read of your business plan it sounds great, im off to my banker in the morning ..

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10 hours ago, barfy said:

Interesting. I found a fair bit of work done in NZ using your keys, I just couldn't connect any dots. To me the market as always in NZ is...too small to be of interest to the whales.

As to his office crew, yes there may be work of interest to NZ being done. Or just taxes on wages and an end date for visas in the future. Better work here with possibly no disruptions rather than..anywhere else. Any idea if all the other team's crew have left, or of visa end dates?

Anyway, I reckon your theory of the fracker jim doing dogs work for the NZ Gov has little substance to back it up.

Edit: on a second read of your business plan it sounds great, im off to my banker in the morning ..

If he ponies up 3 billion could you pm bankers name. Got another sure bet from a long lost Nigerian relative.

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20 hours ago, chesirecat said:

2000 jobs for the cracking plant, up to a 1000 for the hydrogen stuff, plus a power station plus infrastructure in NZ SI. Not  to mention his expanding plastic recycling operations.

There is no way this side of the universe imploding he will get permission for a new power station in our country. So the only option would be to take over the output from Manapouri after the aluminium smelter pisses off.

The problem with that is the power from their is already spoken for by our climate change commission. We will use it to drive our CO2 emissions down to zero without costing our economy anything.

There is also no way any form of petroleum plant would get past our green pansies. There would be protests out your bunghole at the mere thought of such blasphemy.

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