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shes legit ... foil arm looks to be in the front end of the box ... opposite of all other teams ... what are we going to read into that?

ETNZ are probably favorites .....but win or lose....Team New Zealand have firmly established themselves as the all time great AC nation in the modern era.   From the time they first emerged, they have

Slowly working through yesterday's lot

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46 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

Been a busy few months for them then. Good to  see Giles back.

You might want to call the Team now "INEOS Mercedes Britannia" because the entire Team is now under the Supervision of James Allison & Geoffrey Willis.

Interestingly enough James Allison admitted that the Mercedes Involvement for AC36 was too late and if they had been in charge for the entire Campaign for AC36 there might have been a different outcome.

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3 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Still a key person. Just not the big PR flash it would have been with Toto.

 

It's not just James Allison, it's Geoff Willis as well!

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9 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

You want to list every person so no one feels left out? Ffs. 
 

your “it’s going to be Toto” in charge post looking a little premature.. 

Toto may well hoop over once his contract runs out! Ainslie still has too many roles - NOT GOOD! This will go nowhere if he is CEO, Team Principal, Skipper & Helmsman.

I still think he is too old!

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15 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Toto may well hoop over once his contract runs out! Ainslie still has too many roles - NOT GOOD! This will go nowhere if he is CEO, Team Principal, Skipper & Helmsman.

I still think he is too old!

Ainslie's Ego once again.  He'll never learn and he'll never win with this hangup.  Just hope for a change he gets paid on results - might make him take a more pragmatic view of the campaign.

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50 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

James Allison not Toto, personally that’s a good thing

 

The words “kicked upstairs” come to mind ...

 

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8 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

You and Four, can’t actually bring yourselves to admit when you were wrong can you? 

And YOU have to admit that Ainslie will likely never win the AC with a British Challenger if he continues to let his EGO get in the way having to fulfill too many roles all at once. That did not work well during AC36.

The only thing that came good today is the involvement of Mercedes with James Allison and Geoff Willis.

Martin Fischer is a MAJOR DOWNGRADE as Lead Designer compared to Holroyd, Vrolijk and the other guys they had.

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4 minutes ago, GBH said:

Ainslie's Ego once again.  He'll never learn and he'll never win with this hangup.  Just hope for a change he gets paid on results - might make him take a more pragmatic view of the campaign.

I trend to agree with you!

Ainslie is making the same mistakes over and over and over yet again and expects a different Result.

Mercedes can only help to a certain Point.

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disagree on Holroyd, he's always been a very good CFD technician but lead designer material he is not.  Possibly one can say the same about Fischer as well though and so far the design team makeup looks to be a bit thin.

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21 minutes ago, GBH said:

disagree on Holroyd, he's always been a very good CFD technician but lead designer material he is not.  Possibly one can say the same about Fischer as well though and so far the design team makeup looks to be a bit thin.

Ainslie talked about MATT SHAFER who is a Lead Foil Designer.

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13 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

cant wait for Alinghi to announce their entry finally, then you can fuck off to that thread as you will have a home team to support.

Typical from you! When you get challenged you revert into your defensive bubble mode & get personal instead of coming up with a good counter-arguement!

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53 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

I trend to agree with you!

Ainslie is making the same mistakes over and over and over yet again and expects a different Result.

Mercedes can only help to a certain Point.

So by your reckoning TNZ should have ditched GD after 2013 as he had a few chances to win but failed?

Odd that all the successful teams seem to stress continuity and learning. And of course Ineos are starting the campaign with Mercedes in partnership from the start so it doesn't look like the are doing the same thing over and over. 

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6 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

So by your reckoning TNZ should have ditched GD after 2013 as he had a few chances to win but failed?

Odd that all the successful teams seem to stress continuity and learning. And of course Ineos are starting the campaign with Mercedes in partnership from the start so it doesn't look like the are doing the same thing over and over. 

This is not about failed chances! This is about learning from your own mistakes.

Comparing Ben Ainslie to Grant Dalton is absolutely NUTS from you. Grant is Head & Shoulders above Ben in a lot ways and unlike the British Sailing Superstar Grant did not let his EGO get in the way of the Team by wanting to be on the Boat.

Dalton made some KEY DECISION followed TNZ 2013 Defeat:
# 1 He stepped off the Boat (being 56 years old) which was an obvious thing to do.
# 2 He reorganized the Team particularly making it younger with the old guys like Ray Davies, Dean Barker, Adam Beashel being replaced by Peter Burling, Blair Tuke, Josh Junior and Andy Maloney alongside Skipper Glenn Ashby.

This is what Ben really has to learn otherwise he'll never win the AC with a British Challenger.

Another good example is Russell Coutts. After winning AC33, the DoG Match with BMW Oracle Racing being on the Boat he stepped off it, became CEO of the rebranded Oracle Team USA and put younger guys like Slingsby, Kirby, DeRidder (who was later replaced by young Kyle Langford) on the Boat. The only Sailor who was waaay older than everyone else on the OTUSA Boat was John Kostecki and he got replaced by a younger, 36-year old Ainslie.

The modern AC has really become a young-mans Game.

I also think Age was a factor in LRPP Defeat this year. Francesco Bruni & Jimmy Spithill are well past their primes.

 

Great Britain has a boatload of talent sitting there waiting on Bens call. Guys like Dylan Fletcher and Stuart Bithell, Leigh McMillan (who was no less the Tune-Up Helmsman for the failed Land Rover BAR Team in 2017). There are others.

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So Ben has still a decade or so to get to the age when GD jumped off?

And Ben is beating the young NZ guns in Sail GP consistently.

GB do have a lot of talent in the wings. Far more than most nations. Far more than your team has.

But the evidence that anyone else could do a better job is thin on the ground. 

But as an Alinghi supporter I'm not surprised you want rid of him

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4 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

So Ben has still a decade or so to get to the age when GD jumped off?

And Ben is beating the young NZ guns in Sail GP consistently.

GB do have a lot of talent in the wings. Far more than most nations. Far more than your team has.

But the evidence that anyone else could do a better job is thin on the ground. 

But as an Alinghi supporter I'm not surprised you want rid of him

This isn't about getting rid of somebody. This is about realizing your time is up!

I'll give you another good example: Max Sirena.

I'm sure Max would have loved being on the LRPP Boat this year but he did not let his EGO get in the way of the Teams Success.

This is what MISTER AINSLIE has to learn - Period!

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9 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

This isn't about getting rid of somebody. This is about realizing your time is up!

I'll give you another good example: Max Sirena.

I'm sure Max would have loved being on the LRPP Boat this year but he did not let his EGO get in the way of the Teams Success.

This is what MISTER AINSLIE has to learn - Period!

You aren't doing yourself any favours. Max only stood down for this cup, but is 6 years older. So Ben could stand down at the same age? Of course Ben is a lot more successful and is still racing competitively in SailGP so he may be able to go a bit longer too

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15 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

You aren't doing yourself any favours. Max only stood down for this cup, but is 6 years older. So Ben could stand down at the same age? Of course Ben is a lot more successful and is still racing competitively in SailGP so he may be able to go a bit longer too

Ben is losing to Slingsby & Outteridge. He won't win SailGP! You're making excuse after excuse just to keep him on the AC Boat!

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1 minute ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Ben is losing to Slingsby & Outteridge. He won't win SailGP! You're making excuse after excuse just to keep him on the AC Boat!

He is losing to them it is true. And Spithill;. Of course Slingsby and Spithill are closer to Ainslie's age. And Burling is the baby and below them all. 

So statistically speaking there is no correlation between success in Sailgp and age.  

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5 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

He is losing to them it is true. And Spithill;. Of course Slingsby and Spithill are closer to Ainslie's age. And Burling is the baby and below them all. 

So statistically speaking there is no correlation between success in Sailgp and age.  

We'll see! I maintain that Ben shouldn't helming such a technically advanced Boat like the AC 75 Class in 2024 (assuming the AC is held that year) when he will be 48 years old.

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I think Ben is good enough to be on the boat, it's all the other roles he takes on which might inhibit their performance. He spreads himself a bit thin. Ineos need someone like Ashby who has real sailing smarts, and knows how to make a boat go fast. It's still sailing knowledge that wins the AC. You look at the past winners, Coutts, Butterworth, Ashby, they were all really good sailors first and foremost, but also have that smarts that can translate into good design ideas. I'm just not convinced the Mercedes guys are going to bring that with their automotive backgrounds.

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You might have the best glue and fibres guys. The best aerodynamicists, but those things alone won't win you the cup. Winning the cup is about putting a really clever package together. I wouldn't be surprised if Alinghi does better than Ineos, because Ernesto knows more about sailing than Ratcliff. EB will have better knowledge on where the resources should go. Ben's a great sailor, but so far producing a winning design package is not something he's excelled in. 

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7 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

I think Ben is good enough to be on the boat, it's all the other roles he takes on which might inhibit their performance. He spreads himself a bit thin. Ineos need someone like Ashby who has real sailing smarts, and knows how to make a boat go fast. It's still sailing knowledge that wins the AC. You look at the past winners, Coutts, Butterworth, Ashby, they were all really good sailors first and foremost, but also have that smarts that can translate into good design ideas. I'm just not convinced the Mercedes guys are going to bring that with their automotive backgrounds.

Yes and No! Yes, I absolutely agree that Ben has too many roles to cope with.

No, I disagree with you on Mercedes. I do think these guys can help.

Nowadays there is a lot of overlap when it comes to F1 and these newly foiling Machines of the AC whether it's the AC72, AC50 and now AC75 Class especially when it comes to aerodynamics & hydrodynamics I think.

Oracle Team USA AC34 Defence had 15-20 Designers, Engineers from BMW to help them and judging by it that worked out just fine.

And finally the Chief Design Head of Emirates Team New Zealand, Dan Bernasconi, does have a F1 Background and is IMO the primary reason more and more AC Teams go into the F1 World.

Alinghi will apparently collaborate with with Red Bull if rumors are to be believed.

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Think it’s time people just wrote to Jim, tell him he is wasting his money and set him straight on what he needs to do.

 

at this rate there is no money for grant, no venue, Jim has a shit team without the right people, alinghi are nailed on winners and the USA either has no club or no team 

Larry must be pissing himself. 

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1 minute ago, dg_sailingfan said:

I disagree with you on Mercedes. I do think these guys can help.

What the hell do those guys know about sails - you know the engine of the boat? If that's not right you aren't going to win. A winning AC boat is a complete package.

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Pissing off people that think that relevant to the current class? 
 

but yes he sails and has done for years. google it if it’s that important to you. 
 

the first time Larry opened his cheque book not a single person said before we accept your cash can you bring me your sailing CV.. 

what’s the sailing background of the Emirates board? 

 

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2 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

What the hell do those guys know about sails - you know the engine of the boat? If that's not right you aren't going to win. A winning AC boat is a complete package.

Mercedes were sorely responsible for turning the slow Christmas Dog into a competitive Boat that could win Races in the Prada Cup!

I am going on a limp and you may disagree with me (that is perfectly fine with me) and say that without the help of the Mercedes Applied Science Division INEOS wouldn't have won a single Race in the Prada Cup!

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2 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

I am going on a limp and you may disagree with me (that is perfectly fine with me) and say that without the help of the Mercedes Applied Science Division INEOS wouldn't have won a single Race in the Prada Cup!

They got going better, but it was Giles and Ben's sailing well that saw them go through. LR got their shit together then cleaned them up through boat speed.

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5 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

what’s the sailing background of the Emirates board? 

GD has got a pretty complete sailing record. No AC's but a couple of Whitbreads.

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Just now, Horn Rock said:

GD has got a pretty complete sailing record. No AC's but a couple of Whitbreads.

GD is on the board of Emirates? We truly do live in post truth world… 

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11 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

but yes he sails and has done for years. google it if it’s that important to you. 

I'm not aware of his sailing background. EB, Larry, and GD are pretty proficient sailors. Is Rats in the same league?

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Ben being announced CEO seems like more of the same. The campaign revolving around him. Is that the best choice for them? I have my doubts. Grave yards are full of indispensable people.

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17 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

They got going better, but it was Giles and Ben's sailing well that saw them go through. LR got their shit together then cleaned them up through boat speed.

Sure Ben & Giles sailed well but you can't just put all the eggs in one basket and say that it was the determining factor. There are a whole bunch more people involved then just Ben and Giles, no?

Why are you diminishing the Involvement of the Mercedes Applied Science Division? I just don't get that mate! You are acting like these guys at Mercedes like Tom Batch are a bunch of Amateurs & Crappies.

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3 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Toto may well hoop over once his contract runs out! Ainslie still has too many roles - NOT GOOD! This will go nowhere if he is CEO, Team Principal, Skipper & Helmsman.

I still think he is too old!

Toto is one of the most powerful people in F1. Why would he waste his time with something he knows fuck all about like the AC?

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2 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

I just don't get that mate! You are acting like these guys at Mercedes like Tom Batch are a bunch of Amateurs & Crappies.

With respect to competitive sailing at the highest level they're complete unknowns. What do those guys know about sailing?

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4 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

With respect to competitive sailing at the highest level they're complete unknowns. What do those guys know about sailing?

The AC these Days are won under the water with the Foils where the hydrodynamics of the Mercedes Applied Science Division comes into play IMO.

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Just now, dg_sailingfan said:

The AC these Days are won under the water with the Foils where the hydrodynamics of the Mercedes Applied Science Division comes into play IMO.

Foils are a big deal, no question. Sail shapes and control are equally important though.

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32 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

I'm not aware of his sailing background. EB, Larry, and GD are pretty proficient sailors. Is Rats in the same league?

in the same league?

at what point in any of this is it remotely relevant?

none of them have extensive AC foiling experience so in terms of that then they are all equal with fuck all

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3 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

at what point in any of this is it remotely relevant?

It's relevant in the sense that you can have knowledgeable input into what's going on. With Ineos it's all being left up to Ben and the magical car guys.

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22 minutes ago, Jono said:

So Dave Endean is in (promoted?) and Grant Simmer is out? Any other shore support names of note?

Grant couldn't wait to get out - was not a happy camper, and neither was anyone else.

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6 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

It's relevant in the sense that you can have knowledgeable input into what's going on. With Ineos it's all being left up to Ben and the magical car guys.

What magical input are any of the money men going to have Into sailing a prototype foiling monohull that let’s face it 30people world wide have ever sailed? 
 

their actual sailing experience is as useful as ours.  As in it’s not. 
 

oh I remember sailing my 6knt shit box we did this trim upwind and maybe you should give it a go..  

 

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1 minute ago, JALhazmat said:

What magical input are any of the money men going to have Into sailing a prototype foiling monohull that let’s face it 30people world wide have ever sailed? 

Good point - I agree with you there.

8 minutes ago, GBH said:

Grant couldn't wait to get out - was not a happy camper, and neither was anyone else.

This alludes to the culture Ben created. Giles obsequious subservience when doing tactics said it all for me. Not that they didn't get some good results, but it all went a bit pear shaped in the end.  

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Now, tell me if this Race here is just about Ben & Giles sailing well as HornRock claims. I don't think so. You can't put everything in one basket. Surely they sailed well but something drastically changed on that Boat from the Pre-Christmas struggles they have had:

You don't pull off a 1:20 Win just because you sailed well!

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4 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Airbus didn't help AM enough.  Why (honest question) does F1 help boat design so much? 

I suspect that F1 is years ahead in CFD technology and wind tunnel expertise compared to any AC team since there is so much money chasing small improvements so they should be able to help with the sail and aero package even if they do nothing below the water.

However, even if they don't help with the actual design what Mercedes F1 brings is organizational expertise, attention to detail, professionalism, logistics expertise, human resource management, maybe PR. These are all areas where Mercedes F1 is on a whole different level compared to any AC team. 

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1 hour ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

However, even if they don't help with the actual design what Mercedes F1 brings is organizational expertise, attention to detail, professionalism, logistics expertise, human resource management, maybe PR. These are all areas where Mercedes F1 is on a whole different level compared to any AC team. 

Absolutely, there is a German word for it, "grünlichkeit".

Hard to translate in English, because... uh..., the English have no idea what that is.

 

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33 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Absolutely, there is a German word for it, "grünlichkeit".

Hard to translate in English, because... uh..., the English have no idea what that is.

 

Then why is Mercedes F1 headquartered in England? And with a majority of the team English? ^_^

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14 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Then why is Mercedes F1 headquartered in England? And with a majority of the team English? ^_^

Did I say the English are bad engineers?

And did you hear Ben talk about discipline over at Mercedes F1.

 

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8 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Did I say the English are bad engineers?

And did you hear Ben talk about discipline over at Mercedes F1.

 

Don't get me wrong; I think it is brilliant to team up with Mercedes F1. My point is that they bring a lot more to the table than just engineering. I have been watching quite a few of the Mercedes F1 YouTube videos, and it is clear that their organization and strategy (not to mention PR) are in an entirely different universe than any sailing team.

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21 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Don't get me wrong; I think it is brilliant to team up with Mercedes F1. My point is that they bring a lot more to the table than just engineering. I have been watching quite a few of the Mercedes F1 YouTube videos, and it is clear that their organization and strategy (not to mention PR) are in an entirely different universe than any sailing team.

We agree on that, not a problem.

But I'm sure the basis of that still 1/3 German, and 1/3 Austrian team is "Gründlichkeit”.

Always been for Mercedes, and I bet for Austrian Toto Wolff too.

Don't think they start their day at 9 or 10, and then have a pint for lunch in the pub.

 

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15 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

It says "Martin Fischer (GER) Head of Design Concept", a bit like he was with ETNZ, disappears after the concept has been agreed or not.

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4 hours ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Don't get me wrong; I think it is brilliant to team up with Mercedes F1. My point is that they bring a lot more to the table than just engineering. I have been watching quite a few of the Mercedes F1 YouTube videos, and it is clear that their organization and strategy (not to mention PR) are in an entirely different universe than any sailing team.

Aerodynamics is only a subset of fluid dynamics.  Not sure a F1 designer has a wide enough grasp.

 

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4 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

We agree on that, not a problem.

But I'm sure the basis of that still 1/3 German, and 1/3 Austrian team is "Gründlichkeit”.

Always been for Mercedes, and I bet for Austrian Toto Wolff too.

Don't think they start their day at 9 or 10, and then have a pint for lunch in the pub.

 

You would be very hard pushed to find 2/3rd of the team not British,while I know you are talking ownership the actual engineers and leaders in the key roles are vast majority British and have been for many years 

as is the case in all but two F1 teams Ferrari and Torro Rosso

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Will be interesting to see, when times get tough, when push comes to shove, when shit hits the fan, who calls the shots and who holds who accountable.

Go find some funding eh? Run along now.. 

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That seems more certain than Grant raising money for a successful home defence. 
 

nice to see his response to the INEOS announcement, “poor me poor me… “ getting the excuses in again for going overseas.  Grant won’t want the snags burning at the fund raiser, off you pop.

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8 hours ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

what Mercedes F1 brings is organizational expertise, attention to detail, professionalism, logistics expertise, human resource management, maybe PR.

But no actual sailing, or sail boat design, or sail making design skills? You know, all those things you need to actually win the Cup.

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5 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

But no actual sailing, or sail boat design, or sail making design skills? You know, all those things you need to actually win the Cup.

Yeah, what a stupid decision they made not to have any of those. Except of course they didn't. 

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13 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

But no actual sailing, or sail boat design, or sail making design skills? You know, all those things you need to actually win the Cup.

As I said before, you should mail Jim and tell him 

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1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Aerodynamics is only a subset of fluid dynamics.  Not sure a F1 designer has a wide enough grasp.

 

First off, your basic premise is rubbish. Fluid dynamics are fluid dynamics. An F1 designer has more than enough knowledge to make a serious difference. In fact, if you look at past design teams in the AC, there were usually ex F1 people somewhere in the design teams.

However, that misses the biggest reason why your comment is so misguided. have you read the CV of Geoffrey Willis, one of the key Mercedes people? To quote In 1987, he made his first step into the world of competition engineering by joining the design group of Peter de Savary's Blue Arrow America's Cup Challenge. Here, he spent the next three years working on keel and hull design, in addition to testing and developing computational fluid dynamics (CFD) tools.

Do you think he might have some idea about translating how they design cars to boats?

 

 

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2 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

It says "Martin Fischer (GER) Head of Design Concept", a bit like he was with ETNZ, disappears after the concept has been agreed or not.

Well spotted, but my feeling is they want to leave in no doubt that Geoffrey Willis is their technical Director, and will be in charge. That said, the Mercedes F1 Team (company) seem to strive for an open but very disciplined team culture, and German born and educated (Hamburg Uni) Fischer, will probably fit right in.

Note: written before I saw the excellent interview above.

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

That seems more certain than Grant raising money for a successful home defence. 
 

nice to see his response to the INEOS announcement, “poor me poor me… “ getting the excuses in again for going overseas.  Grant won’t want the snags burning at the fund raiser, off you pop.

Last time I checked, AC36 was in Auckland, and Grant successfully defended so...

Better  go ask INEOS how to win the AC... oh wait.

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2 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Aerodynamics is only a subset of fluid dynamics.  Not sure a F1 designer has a wide enough grasp.

 

Your comment completely misses my point. What I said was:

"I suspect that F1 is years ahead in CFD technology and wind tunnel expertise compared to any AC team since there is so much money chasing small improvements so they should be able to help with the sail and aero package even if they do nothing below the water.

However, even if they don't help with the actual design what Mercedes F1 brings is organizational expertise, attention to detail, professionalism, logistics expertise, human resource management, maybe PR. These are all areas where Mercedes F1 is on a whole different level compared to any AC team."

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Many of you are missing the point.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Mercedes Formula 1 engineers are excellent naval architects. However, we know from previous experience (see LTCM) that a bunch of geniuses (even Nobel Laureates) is not a recipe for success unless they are properly organized. Someone (almost certainly not a subject matter expert like a Nobel Laureate) needs to decide who reports to whom, decide who does what, establish a culture, etc.

The Mercedes Formula 1 team is almost 1500 personnel. Their estimated budget in 2019was $442 million. Think about that for a moment. A good AC budget would be $100-150mm for a cycle (3-4 years) so Mercedes F1 is spending at least 4x that. They have won seven consecutive world championships in a row in the most competitive, most expensive sport on the planet. A sport in which you must show up with the best equipment otherwise it is hopeless. Also, a sport in which even with the best equipment it is hopeless unless you have the best team. Does this sound familiar? Perhaps there is something to learn?

 

Try these (each less than 60 seconds) in which different functions describe, in 60 seconds or less, what they do. There are FOURTEEN of these so far. So compare that to the precious media presence of your Prada or ETNZ or AM.

Toto Wolff Team Principal (just for example) to see what the principal does, and does not, do: 

 Some random aero performance engineer 

 

Chief Nerd (as he describes himself)

It goes on. 

 

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13 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Aerodynamics is only a subset of fluid dynamics.  Not sure a F1 designer has a wide enough grasp.

 

This is quite a key point - the F1 aero guys are very smart but they are working within and to a set of rules that are applicable to cars and their needs.

What they may not bring with them is the more fundamental understanding of what a racing yacht is all about, and the myriad of specific conflicts that arise from having to work in the interface of wind and water.  I rather doubt that they will have enough design time to really get up to speed on this.  Unless of course the event all gets delayed as nobody seems to want to hold it!

 

 

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2 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Aerodynamics is only a subset of fluid dynamics.  Not sure a F1 designer has a wide enough grasp.

 

I do not agree that fluid dynamics are fluid dynamics." In fact, I think that fluid dynamics for compressible matter (air) are different than fluid dynamics for incompressible matter (liquid) at the velocities and pressures we deal with in the real world. I have no idea how CFD works in plasma, but I am also reasonably confident that no matter what the protocol conditions are the boats will not be racing in plasma.

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