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Stars and Stripes Team USA is gone


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It's this type of spite that got the fucktard elected in the first place... 

I just love how so many commentors from countries with still far from controlled Covid outbreaks wrecking their economies seem to think that NZ somehow has a more severe economic issue than their own.

No hurt feelings at all just further confirmation that your primary pleasure in life is talking shit, don't worry about me I've got a life.

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1 hour ago, RMac said:

A stunning blow to the legions of S&S fans

oh, just wait, they are about to blow back onto the scene after quietly assembling a sailing team and finishing their boat in MI. They took advantage of the Chicago mac race being cancelled to conduct a month of sail testing on lake MI without all of the prying eyes of other sailors. Word in Muskegon is they have done several dry laps between Holland and the Manitou's.

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On 7/20/2020 at 8:45 AM, The Profit said:

Prada Cup race format just published by COR.  It refers to only 3 challengers.  (page 6 of 8 in attached under Round-Robin Stage)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ycc3hxnn0nu8nhq/Race Conditions.pdf?dl=0

 

Read the document, did not see what you mention? The doc. refers to 4 round robins? The Prada Cup is to establish who is the final challenger. Four challengers would be Amer.Magic, INEOS GB, Luna Rossa, and S&S, right? ETNZ does not participate, unless I'm mistaken.

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1 hour ago, Norcal said:

. Word in Muskegon is they have done several dry laps between Holland and the Manitou's.

Well... It is true that hull hasn't got wet...

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On today’s Sailing Illustrated, TE said he is still hearing from multiple sources about possible attempts by Buckley and GD to buy/lease/rent/sail/whatever, Te A. To enable ‘S+S’ to garner additional cash from one of their two donors, so they can pay the remaining $4M of the $5M they owe to Dalton. The idea now is to ‘sell’ the idea to the donors as a stepping-stone to the following Cup. 
 

TE gives that possibility the same chance as him being crowned the next Queen of England :)

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Buckley and GD....

Did I call it way back when, or what? I really do hope that this is what all the under-the-table-now-under-investigation stuff was about. It would be hilarious to see GD tossed in the pokey for funneling NZ-government money to a non-existent team in the United States.

He knows where his bread is buttered.

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

On today’s Sailing Illustrated, TE said he is still hearing from multiple sources about possible attempts by Buckley and GD to buy/lease/rent/sail/whatever, Te A. To enable ‘S+S’ to garner additional cash from one of their two donors, so they can pay the remaining $4M of the $5M they owe to Dalton. The idea now is to ‘sell’ the idea to the donors as a stepping-stone to the following Cup. 
 

TE gives that possibility the same chance as him being crowned the next Queen of England :)

Hmmm.

 

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2 hours ago, Salty Seacock said:

TE gives that possibility the same chance as him being crowned the next Queen of England :)

Well, we know you hang on his every word and give him the deference due a queen spinbot. Maybe you two have a deeper relationship?

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22 hours ago, Tubes said:

Read the document, did not see what you mention? The doc. refers to 4 round robins? The Prada Cup is to establish who is the final challenger. Four challengers would be Amer.Magic, INEOS GB, Luna Rossa, and S&S, right? ETNZ does not participate, unless I'm mistaken.

A round robin is a set of races, not a competitor.  Attachment 1 says there will be 4 round robins, 1 winner and 2 remaining teams in semis.

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15 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

On today’s Sailing Illustrated, TE said he is still hearing from multiple sources about possible attempts by Buckley and GD to buy/lease/rent/sail/whatever, Te A. To enable ‘S+S’ to garner additional cash from one of their two donors, so they can pay the remaining $4M of the $5M they owe to Dalton. The idea now is to ‘sell’ the idea to the donors as a stepping-stone to the following Cup. 

Even if true, what moronic sponsors would be favorably impressed to throw in $4m and more by this? Is it to prove Americans can sail a foiling monohull?  That there are 10 Americans that could be AC sailors someday? In some class of boats, not clear what AC37 will have.. Or just a spectacle? Tacky. Would love to know who they would impress by sailing around in a rented boat because they were not fundable before. Or still, most likely. Dumb money is one thing but we are talking really credulous money if this is an actual scheme.

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On 7/22/2020 at 8:02 AM, NeedAClew said:

Dumb money is one thing but we are talking really credulous money if this is an actual scheme.

TE broke some news on this subject today, apparently S+S has now filed an application to the Arb Panel requesting exactly this scheme. They want to be able to race ETNZ’s B1 Te Aihe in the CSS! 
 

Lmao!!! 

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I forget, what does the Prot say about the transparency (or not) of Arb Panel deliberations? GD emphasized that he wanted them to be much more transparent in AC36, but perhaps it does not actually extend to applications. 

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

TE broke some news on this subject today, apparently S+S has now filed an application to the Arb Panel requesting exactly this scheme. They want to be able to race ETNZ’s B1 Te Aihe in the CSS! 
 

Lmao!!! 

This is exactly what I predicted months ago when Clownwell furtively guaranteed TE that S+S would be on the line. This is all about GD trying to covertly save face in what was already a disaster in term of participants.

My hunch is that, in addition to trying to make things look better at home, he was using S+S' "continuing participation" to try to drum up sponsorship money by presenting numbers based on those 4 challengers (2 less than the 6 which was the make or break number in the Economic Analysis - but better than the measly 3). Think about the size of the US market - especially the coasts. But with the whole financial model now burnt to the ground anyway, that no longer matters.

What's interesting though is why S+S would go to the arbitration panel expecting to race Te Ahmed unless GD floated that option under the table as I said. If that's the case, GD is about to get yet another black eye. He's getting caught out.

This is very likely where the misappropriated funds have been going as I suspected before. And even it that's not the case, it's a seriously loser move on the part of GD.

This guy has completely blown up AC36. He has no business running even a quinceañera.

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7 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

What's interesting though is why S+S would go to the arbitration panel expecting to race Te Ahmed unless GD floated that option under the table as I said. If that's the case, GD is about to get yet another black eye.

It’s perfectly logical to assume that S+S filing this application was with the pre-agreed encouragement by ETNZ.

How would it benefit ETNZ? My guesses are

1) Follow the Money, because: it might help S+S get donor money to repay the Design Package fee - essentially making a US Chall help pay for ETNZ’s Defense; and possibly to try satisfy number of team-related obligations under the HVA too.

2) Get a read on Challengers by having your own well-understood boat compete against them in the CSS.

This would take a fairly-bizarre CIC DoG/Protocol change, I doubt any of the Challs would agree to it, including LR. 

 

 

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On 7/23/2020 at 1:02 AM, NeedAClew said:

Even if true, what moronic sponsors would be favorably impressed to throw in $4m and more by this? Is it to prove Americans can sail a foiling monohull?  That there are 10 Americans that could be AC sailors someday? In some class of boats, not clear what AC37 will have.. Or just a spectacle? Tacky. Would love to know who they would impress by sailing around in a rented boat because they were not fundable before. Or still, most likely. Dumb money is one thing but we are talking really credulous money if this is an actual scheme.

It's often been said that it takes multiple campaigns to win an AC. If S&S managed to pull this off (and it's an enormous "IF") it's a very cheap way to get some experience. A 30 second Super Bowl ad costs over $5 million, so $4 million for a few days in Auckland might seem cheap. :-)

If they make it to the starting line, the number of possible round robin races doubles to 24.

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3 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

It’s perfectly logical to assume that S+S filing this application was with the pre-agreed encouragement by ETNZ, I agree.

How would it benefit ETNZ? My guesses are

1) Follow the Money

2) Get a read on Challengers by having your own well-understood boat compete against them in the CSS.

This would take a fairly-bizarre Protocol change, I doubt any of the Challs would agree to it, including LR.

Exactly - like I said months ago - the Emiratis are clearly cheating...or at least desperately trying to. I love the move by S+S to call GD out on it to the panel - especially when they still owe him a million or two. Balls. Heh.

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The idea of one Challenger, paying a Defender and  strengthening that Defender, to race a Defender’s boat, against the Defender’s other Challengers, is pretty wild!!! :D
 

Who all in NZ would get a cut of those $’s, the board and GD? Panuku? MBIE? Really weird idea. 

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Not when you're cheating.

And though I love S+S humiliating GD - I think it's serious douchebaggery on their part to play along with him to this point.

I can't wait to see if S+S "somehow" paid the other million of their entry fee. Oh the humanity.

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21 minutes ago, RobG said:

If they make it to the starting line, the number of possible round robin races doubles to 24.

Which I suppose might tempt Prada into agreeing a Protocol change of almost mind-bending proportions? 
 

Wow, this is pretty damn crazy if it’s true that S+S did put in an application, that would basically help ETNZ beat the real Challengers. 

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4 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Which I suppose might tempt Prada into agreeing a Protocol change of almost mind-bending proportions? 

Not sure the protocol would change, but the race schedule for the Prada Cup Conditions certainly will. It's mostly one race per day at present (12 races over 10 days), much more challenging to do 24 races in the same period.

I posted an update in the Prada Cup thread.

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40 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

This is exactly what I predicted months ago when Clownwell furtively guaranteed TE that S+S would be on the line. This is all about GD trying to covertly save face in what was already a disaster in term of participants.

My hunch is that, in addition to trying to make things look better at home, he was using S+S' "continuing participation" to try to drum up sponsorship money by presenting numbers based on those 4 challengers (2 less than the 6 which was the make or break number in the Economic Analysis - but better than the measly 3). Think about the size of the US market - especially the coasts. But with the whole financial model now burnt to the ground anyway, that no longer matters.

What's interesting though is why S+S would go to the arbitration panel expecting to race Te Ahmed unless GD floated that option under the table as I said. If that's the case, GD is about to get yet another black eye. He's getting caught out.

This is very likely where the misappropriated funds have been going as I suspected before. And even it that's not the case, it's a seriously loser move on the part of GD.

This guy has completely blown up AC36. He has no business running even a quinceañera.

On the other hand, the team he lead won the Cup, so he has the only right to run the Defence. So fuck off with your innuendoes. 

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6 minutes ago, RobG said:

Not sure the protocol would change, but the race schedule for the Prada Cup Conditions certainly will. It's mostly one race per day at present (12 races over 10 days), much more challenging to do 24 races in the same period.

I posted an update in the Prada Cup thread.

Bingo, agreed. 
 

Was there a by-date for the publication of the CSS schedule and format? And under what conditions could it be changed, is it basically a ‘non-date’? 

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4 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

On the other hand, the team he lead won the Cup, so he has the only right to run the Defence. So fuck off with your innuendoes. 

You're right - GD knew how to win an event, and, yes, he thereby received the right to run the next one.

However, you have to remember, rights never equal ability. GD has utterly burned this AC36 to the ground through incompetence (at best) and alleged malfeasance (at worst). Either way, my point stands.

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8 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Bingo, agreed. 
 

Was there a by-date for the publication of the CSS schedule and format? And under what conditions could it be changed, is it basically a ‘non-date’? 

5 Format and schedule

5.1 The format and schedule for the Prada Cup are shown in Attachment 1 (the "Prada cup Format and Schedule"). Without prejudice to Article 3.3 of the Protocol the Attachment 1 may from time to time be revised or modified by COR/D in consultation with the Regatta Director.

 

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5 minutes ago, RobG said:

5 Format and schedule

5.1 The format and schedule for the Prada Cup are shown in Attachment 1 (the "Prada cup Format and Schedule"). Without prejudice to Article 3.3 of the Protocol the Attachment 1 may from time to time be revised or modified by COR/D in consultation with the Regatta Director.

 

Thanks, interesting..

I wonder who will sponsor this S+S effort? 

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5 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

You're right - GD knew how to win an event, and, yes, he thereby received the right to run the next one.

However, you have to remember, rights never equal ability. GD has utterly burned this AC36 to the ground through incompetence (at best) and alleged malfeasance (at worst). Either way, my point stands.

IMO, it does not, Smack. There is no body and as far as I can tell, a whole lot of fanciful, circumstantial evidence. 

Let's at least wait until the event is run. If then, there's a corpse, we can argue a case. Fair enough?

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5 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Thanks, interesting..

I wonder who will sponsor this S+S effort? 

Someone who is happy to waste a few million dollars on a questionable advertising opportunity? The odds of winning a race where the other boat doesn't suffer a major failure or black flag would be astronomical.

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So as unlikely as this scheme seems of getting traction. Why can't it be viewed as win-win for everyone.

The Challengers get a lot more race hardened by having a shit load more opportunities to race.

More Product to be broadcast, more races to be viewed by the likes of us, more sponsor exposure. Competition is healthier. Sailing as a sport is more exposed. 

The Challengers get to evaluate ETNZ B1 up close and meaningfully. Probably even get an opportunity to speed up their own R&D, iterative development. Unlock a few design keys that they would not have had access to otherwise. Think of the amount of measurements and digital photography that would be taken by allowing an.other team access to this platform. Access to the mainsail control systems - which the other yteams would be very interested to now more about. $4m to reveal actual working practices of the leading teams design ethos - all of the other teams would be fronting the money to garner this access, with control of the ultimate result. Cheap at half the price......

The Host country gets a bigger spectacle. S&S finally pony up some overdue money. The world is crying out for some sporting events - and AC with all its partisan shenanigans interests far more than just sailors with its soap opera style back stories and faux glamour......

Lots, and lots of upsides. 

So whats the downside? Really?

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2 minutes ago, Boink said:

So as unlikely as this scheme seems of getting traction. Why can't it be viewed as win-win for everyone.

The Challengers get a lot more race hardened by having a shit load more opportunities to race.

… 

So whats the downside? Really?

The addition of a challenger with zero chance of being competitive is an unwanted distraction for the other teams.

In a race vs S&S, the other challenger would just try to stay out of their way, then out sail them around the course. It would be all over by the first windward rounding. So really wasted time on the water that would be better spent training or just staying out of harm's way.

All this assumes there's a loophole around the pesky clause 9 "constructed in the country requirement for yachts" section  in the Protocol. That alone sinks this rumour.

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1 minute ago, RobG said:

The addition of a challenger with zero chance of being competitive is an unwanted distraction for the other teams.

In a race vs S&S, the other challenger would just try to stay out of their way, then out sail them around the course. It would be all over by the first windward rounding. So really wasted time on the water that would be better spent training or just staying out of harm's way.

All this assumes there's a loophole around the pesky clause 9 "constructed in the country requirement for yachts" section  in the Protocol. That alone sinks this rumour.

Exactly. Remember, Canfield said their team is training on freakin' Moths. Imaging being in the start box with these clowns trying to control a boat that even the Emiatis can't control. No way will the challengers accept this. It's like the Emiratis putting a swinging wrecking ball with razor blades sticking out of it on the course and making the challenger try to avoid it. It's asinine.

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If they can prove Covid, as an act of God negatively affected their campaign, and prevented them from building their first boat in the US, they may stand a small chance. GD already publicly said their yard had been commandeered to produce face masks, if that’s true, maybe it could be possible.

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13 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Exactly. Remember, Canfield said their team is training on freakin' Moths. Imaging being in the start box with these clowns trying to control a boat that even the Emiatis can't control. No way will the challengers accept this. It's like the Emiratis putting a swinging wrecking ball with razor blades sticking out of it on the course and making the challenger try to avoid it. It's asinine.

“A swinging wrecking ball with razor blades on it” lol sheesh you’re like a dramatic little girl! Quit whinging. Boo fucking hoo. In 2013, They let Artemis Racing on a course on On a boat that wasn’t class compliant, with a crew that had only been sailing a couple of days! And the other 3 Challengers agreed to it without moaning their asses off because it’s was good for the event. 

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23 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

GD already publicly said their yard had been commandeered to produce face masks, if that’s true, maybe it could be possible.

Except we already heard from people at that facility that this wasn't true. Lies like that usually don't hold up.

Just remember, I called this back in September - then again in January. While you were assuring the world there was no way any of this could be happening.

You may kiss the ring now.

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20 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Except we already heard from people at that facility that this wasn't true. Lies like that usually don't hold up.

Just remember, I called this back in September - then again in January. While you were assuring the world there was no way any of this could be happening.

You may kiss the ring now.

Who are “these people”?? 

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It's in this thread you moron. Being that there are only 5 pages...I'm sure even you can find it...with help from your KiWhingerTM pals.

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13 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

It's in this thread you moron. Being that there are only 5 pages...I'm sure even you can find it...with help from your KiWhingerTM pals.

I’m inclined to believe a campaign and defence CEO over a nameless faceless SA poster.

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So if Emirates were happy for S+S to use ther B1 does it imply they aren’t that happy with the shape? If they thought it was a true winner  and B2 was only minor improvements would they be happy for another team to use it? 
 

If SS ends up with Te Aihe I think it would suggest B2 will be completely different.

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5 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Of course you are. And how is that working out for you thus far? Heh.

Don't Stop Believin'

It’s working out just fine. Not so much for you tho lol You’re still here crying, bitching and moaning about anything and everything. Your Team France is gonna get their asses kicked.

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2 minutes ago, Tommy22 said:

So if Emirates were happy for S+S to use ther B1 does it imply they aren’t that happy with the shape? If they thought it was a true winner  and B2 was only minor improvements would they be happy for another team to use it? 
 

If SS ends up with Te Aihe I think it would suggest B2 will be completely different.

When S+S was first announced, Dalton said their boat 1 would be identical to ETNZ’s first boat.

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22 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

ETNZ are to race B1 against B2 while the challengers are racing.  If S&S are to race ETNZ's B1 they will lose that opportunity.

Maybe Canfeild and Buckley will sail B1 against B2 along with their coed crew.

Kind of like a work scheme to pay off the considerable shortfall they owe TNZ.

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19 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Maybe Canfeild and Buckley will sail B1 against B2 along with their coed crew.

Kind of like a work scheme to pay off the considerable shortfall they owe TNZ.

S&S can hardly do that while they are contesting the challenger series. As it has been pointed out several times they would not be competitive anyway so no use to ETNZ.

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Ehman thinks it’s “the worst news since 2010” why? One of his arguments was “it gives ETNZ a bead on the other challengers” how? Maybe if The Kiwi crew was sailing it, but, just because Canfield and team are sailing the Kiwi boat, are they really going to be able to optimise the boat the way the Kiwis will have? If Stars + Stripes gets their butt kicked (which to be fair, is highly likely no matter who’s boat they sail) will the other challengers then think they can write ETNZ off? There is precedent. Softbank bought Oracles first AC50 and sailed it in the Challenger Series last time. LR bought ETNZs design package in San Fran and apart from a break down, got their asses whooped by ETNZs boat 2. 

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38 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

S&S can hardly do that while they are contesting the challenger series. As it has been pointed out several times they would not be competitive anyway so no use to ETNZ.

Just taking the piss.

What an embarrassing cluster fuck still no honesty from TNZ keeping the Lazarus myth alive to the ugly bitter end.

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8 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

At least Stars + Stripes fate is in the hands of the Arbitration panel. Any decision should be placed squarely in the hands of the Arbitration Panel.

Join the real world GD bangs on endlessly that he is in daily contact with the principals of S&S.

Bullshit unless he is so desperate to fill the fiscal hole the Hungarian honey trap left behind.

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Jeez!....what a storm in the tea cup!..anyone would think that the defender was trying to sail in the challengers series or something ...:lol:

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26 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Join the real world GD bangs on endlessly that he is in daily contact with the principals of S&S.

Bullshit unless he is so desperate to fill the fiscal hole the Hungarian honey trap left behind.

I have no idea who Dalton is in daily contact with, and let’s be honest, neither do you.

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18 minutes ago, uflux said:

Jeez!....what a storm in the tea cup!..anyone would think that the defender was trying to sail in the challengers series or something ...:lol:

That was virtually the original plan—the preliminary regattas, in which ETNZ was due to sail, was to create the seedings and initial leader board for the Prada Cup. So ETNZ would have not only sailed against other B1s, but influenced the seedings. Since there were no preliminary regattas, the Prada Cup round robins don't use seedings.

Until someone can find a loop hole for the boat country of origin condition (which comes from the deed of gift and is explicitly confirmed in the protocol as a condition for measurement as an AC75 yacht) the rumour is DOA. It can't be negotiated away, it can't be waived, it has to be addressed.

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46 minutes ago, RobG said:

That was virtually the original plan—the preliminary regattas, in which ETNZ was due to sail, was to create the seedings and initial leader board for the Prada Cup. So ETNZ would have not only sailed against other B1s, but influenced the seedings. Since there were no preliminary regattas, the Prada Cup round robins don't use seedings.

Until someone can find a loop hole for the boat country of origin condition (which comes from the deed of gift and is explicitly confirmed in the protocol as a condition for measurement as an AC75 yacht) the rumour is DOA. It can't be negotiated away, it can't be waived, it has to be addressed.

That is quite a big stretch. The World Series would have no direct bearing in the challenger series ( since the Pravda cup is about finding the best challenger) as opposed to the last cup where the defender could take points into the cup. And so no bearing on the cup. Yes the defender learns from the World Series... but so do the challengers  So um... yeah nah...

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34 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

I have no idea who Dalton is in daily contact with, and let’s be honest, neither do you.

Considering GD is double dipping from the public purse with his dual directorships of TNZ and ACE maybe a bit of honesty would not go amiss.

His track record is not exactly great remember we are taking it offshore we are talking to Tauranga there are 10 contenders we need another $100 mil...

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2 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

ETNZ are to race B1 against B2 while the challengers are racing.  If S&S are to race ETNZ's B1 they will lose that opportunity.

Valid Terry. And the only real reason given here.

And I am only playing Devil's advocate here...... So if they could configure Te Kahu to trial against B2 does this take away that loss?

As to being for the good of the "event" - does 4 challengers and the upsides that, that would create, not outweigh the so far only valid reason to not include them?

I suggest, not.

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25 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Considering GD is double dipping from the public purse with his dual directorships of TNZ and ACE maybe a bit of honesty would not go amiss.

His track record is not exactly remember great we are taking it offshore we are talking to Tauranga there are 10 contenders we need another $100 mil...

I can’t seem to find any precedent that suggests GD is not allowed to run more than one organisation. Wasn’t Oracles model similar in their events. I guess that is an answer for Russell...:blink:

Can you elaborate on what you mean by honesty?? His involvement in both organisations isn’t a secret. It is a legal requirement in NZ for any company to show who the directors are. I have to fill out a companies return ever year with exactly that information on it.

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Join the real world GD bangs on endlessly that he is in daily contact with the principals of S&S.

Does he though???

 

0AEAD915-DEC4-40AB-BD7B-361646D6E608.png

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16 minutes ago, uflux said:

I can’t seem to find any precedent that suggests GD not not allowed to run more than one organisation. Wasn’t Oracles model similar in their events. I guess that is an answer for Russell...:blink:

Can you elaborate on what you mean by honesty?? His involvement in both organisations isn’t a secret. 

Grant knows exactly what the status of the S&S floundering campaign is no boat no loot no show.

The longer he leaves this rot to fester the more it effects his credibility.

The AC 36 is now a very truncated event from what was initially promoted and the credibility drift happened many moons ago when he first banged on about a more accessible and affordable Cup cycle under his stewardship.

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4 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Grant knows exactly what the status of the S&S floundering campaign is no boat no loot no show.

The longer he leaves this rot to fester the more it effects his credibility.

The AC 36 is now a very truncated event from what was initially promoted and the credibility drift happened many moons ago when he first banged on about a more accessible and affordable Cup cycle under his stewardship.

I am sure he knows exactly how much of a cluster f&ck S&S is. But it is not the defenders role to pull the pin on a challengers campaign. That is the challengers decision. 
So why is GD to blame for a US syndicates shit show??

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8 minutes ago, uflux said:

I am sure he knows exactly how much of a cluster f&ck S&S is. But it is not the defenders role to pull the pin on a challengers campaign. That is the challengers decision. 
So why is GD to blame for a US syndicates shit show??

Not saying he is to blame but as a major creditor for S&S what is the gain for TNZ to string out the inevitable.

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1 minute ago, Priscilla said:

Not saying he is to blame but as a major creditor for S&S what is the gain for TNZ to string out the inevitable.

If you read my post you see that it is not ETNZ stringing anything it’s not their campaign.

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1 minute ago, uflux said:

If you read my post you see that it is not ETNZ stringing anything it’s not their campaign.

It is however their circus and as the ringleader GD has one less lion or more aptly elephant of the white kind to show.

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Just now, Priscilla said:

It is however their circus and as the ringleader GD has one less lion or more aptly elephant of the white kind to show.

Ok now you’re just rambling. Since when has the defender been accountable for the failings of a challenger. I guess there is a first for everything...:lol:

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If you dig a little deeper you will find a linkage as to how far the public purse will open contingent to the quantity of entrants.

Four sounds more impressive than three let alone two.

Sales and marketing 101.

 

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I say if the Arbitration panel decides it’s within the rules to allow S+S to rent/ lease ETNZs B1, so be it. It may be ETNZs boat, which as stated was going to be identical to S+S B1 anyway, but it’s not going to have Pete, Glenn and the rest of the team sailing, so unless Canfield and team are extremely quick learners, the boat won’t be as optimised as it was on ETNZs watch. It’s highly unlikely they’ll be competitive but if they wanna spend millions of dollars on an ass kicking then who is GD to deny them that.

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I really would like there to be a 4th Challenger.

But by sailing TNZ B1 is NOT the way to do it.

The only DoG compliant B1 that S&S could sail is AM B1 :angry:

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11 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

If you dig a little deeper you will find a linkage as to how far the public purse will open contingent to the quantity of entrants.

Four sounds more impressive than three let alone two.

Sales and marketing 101.

 

S&S is free at any moment to end their challenge...It’s that simple

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Why would you want to challenge now when you don't even have a boat on the water etc? It is like throwing your sponsors money or investors money away? Attempting to challenge without the appropriate funding is stupid and simply driven by ego IMO. If it were about winning the cup for the USA as a country as I've said they should offer to help NYYC in some way shape or form. If they are serious about challenging they should be preparing for the AC37 IMO. I agree they should end their challenge and announce they are concentrating on the AC37 wherever that might be, most likely New Zealand for the foreseeable future. 

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Not saying he is to blame but as a major creditor for S&S what is the gain for TNZ to string out the inevitable.

Because there is only downside if they call in the debt now - court, bankruptcy and no money. In that scenario the money is already gone.

So they might as well leave s+s to try and navigate their own mess, they've a snowballs chance of pulling it off, but those odds are still better than the first option and require no effort from ETNZ.

Dead simple really....

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IF this were to go ahead and S&S get their hands on ETNZ B1, is there any indication of what version of B1 it would be?? My assumption would be B1.1 - the first iteration from the initial launch as that is likely the spec of the 'design package' originally sold to S&S at the beginning of this soap opera. 

Next question is do ETNZ still have all the parts to reconfigure B1 to this spec? I'm sure they have exact details of the spec logged but I would imagine some components will have been modified during the R&D cycle (rather than simply replaced with entirely new pieces) and will require reverse engineering or entirely new pieces to return to B1.1 spec... will S&S have to add this cost to their tab or get left to figure out themselves?

Also, how will B1.1 perform against the latest challenger B1s/new B2s?? The current Te Aihe looks pretty dialled but we know a lot has changed since the first launch - the same with the challengers B1 platforms...

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2 hours ago, uflux said:

That is quite a big stretch. The World Series would have no direct bearing in the challenger series ( since the Pravda cup is about finding the best challenger) as opposed to the last cup where the defender could take points into the cup.

You should read section 3.3 of the Protocol:

3.3. The seeding or ranking to determine the initial positions in the tournament ladder board shall be determined by the adjusted aggregated results of the Preliminary Regattas (“Seeding”). 

b) In principle and where practicable (depending in particular on the number of Challengers), the Challenger finishing first in the adjusted aggregated results of the Preliminary Regattas will move directly to the second phase of the tournament ladder.

The intention was for the highest ranked challenger from the preliminary regattas to be given direct entry into the second stage of the CSS. How is that having "no direct bearing"?

 

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10 minutes ago, RobG said:

You should read section 3.3 of the Protocol:

3.3. The seeding or ranking to determine the initial positions in the tournament ladder board shall be determined by the adjusted aggregated results of the Preliminary Regattas (“Seeding”). 

b) In principle and where practicable (depending in particular on the number of Challengers), the Challenger finishing first in the adjusted aggregated results of the Preliminary Regattas will move directly to the second phase of the tournament ladder.

The intention was for the highest ranked challenger from the preliminary regattas to be given direct entry into the second stage of the CSS. How is that having "no direct bearing"?

 

Cool good point ...noted :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, hoom said:

The only DoG compliant B1 that S&S could sail is AM B1

I think they'd rather have Te Aihe for obvious reasons, but yeah I can't see this getting up unless all the challengers agree, and that doesn't happen very often.

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10 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

TE broke some news on this subject today, apparently S+S has now filed an application to the Arb Panel requesting exactly this scheme. They want to be able to race ETNZ’s B1 Te Aihe in the CSS! 
 

Lmao!!! 

Haha, we have seen weirder things in the AC, but not many. With the watered-down CiC, this may even fly.
In a way I would like to see S+S in this AC, just because I admire their enthusiasm, fearlessness, resilience, grass-roots approach and poverty. One could even call it "sustainability" if they use a 2nd hand boat.
Interesting times...
(Catching up now on the rest of the thread.)

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