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Stars and Stripes Team USA is gone


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38 minutes ago, hoom said:

They're certainly not doing the thing thy should be doing: Clearly stating that Te Aihe is not available to a Challenger -> no point in an Arbitration case.

^This. It should not even be an option. Whatever the reason GD is letting this play out is bad. All the take the high road shit over the years and then to let this happen. Just being an asshole. Shut it down and tell the yanks to fuck off. They can try again next time.

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It's this type of spite that got the fucktard elected in the first place... 

I just love how so many commentors from countries with still far from controlled Covid outbreaks wrecking their economies seem to think that NZ somehow has a more severe economic issue than their own.

No hurt feelings at all just further confirmation that your primary pleasure in life is talking shit, don't worry about me I've got a life.

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1 minute ago, Gissie said:

^This. It should not even be an option. Whatever the reason GD is letting this play out is bad. All the take the high road shit over the years and then to let this happen. Just being an asshole. Shut it down and tell the yanks to fuck off. They can try again next time.

Add to that the shut down of the Hungarian Honey trap the silence from the courts complete with MBIE funding withdrawal this is going to be a Cup to remember or forget.

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3 hours ago, Gissie said:

^This. It should not even be an option. Whatever the reason GD is letting this play out is bad. All the take the high road shit over the years and then to let this happen. Just being an asshole. Shut it down and tell the yanks to fuck off. They can try again next time.

It's an odd move for sure, I keep wondering if there is money tied to number of competitors somewhere that isn;t public.  

GD came out quickly on the offensive when the whole whistleblower news came out, why isn't he getting ahead of this similarly?

On one hand I would love to see more boats, but if they somehow get a change forced through without unanimous consent (and why would anyone else agree to this?) it's an ugly look for a team that normally behaves pretty admirably.  Got a bit of the "my precious!" with this cup maybe. 

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10 hours ago, Forourselves said:

ETNZ haven't done, and aren't doing anything so there is no flip flop! Its purely a conspiracy theory on your part. This is purely Stars + Stripes seeking permission from the Arbitration panel as per the protocol. ETNZ have nothing to do with it, nor does it give them any perceived advantage.

I’m sorry but I am confused, does ETNZ no longer own and/or have possession of their B1?

WetHog  :ph34r:

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"Hey Taylor,  got a GREAT idea, what if we just sailed NZ's boat!?"

"That is a great idea, should we ask them first or just ask the committee?"

"Why on earth would we do that?  Just file the petition, bro"

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All we know is that S&S have submitted something for arbitration and it seems to be connected to their need to acquire an AC75 from another team.

I am sure that Grant Dalton knows a lot more than that but the arbitration is held in secret so he is not in a position to expand on what has already been said.

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2 hours ago, WetHog said:

I’m sorry but I am confused, does ETNZ no longer own and/or have possession of their B1?

WetHog  :ph34r:

Trust me. It's not you that's confused.

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10 hours ago, Priscilla said:

The edit sums you and your idiocy up completely fool.

You’re in luck tonite I have a free moment or two.

Do you just sit nightly possibly daily or constantly in your Target Furniture faux leather chair wearing some considerably aged red socks whilst watching 1995 AC replays .

Address the reality not your fantasy.

And what is the “reality”? Remember your opinion ain’t fact dickhead. So far the only “Reality” you keep presenting time after time after time is “Yeah right” 

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5 hours ago, WetHog said:

I’m sorry but I am confused, does ETNZ no longer own and/or have possession of their B1?

WetHog  :ph34r:

Yes they do. There is nothing further that is factually based to add to the discussion yet. 

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an extra team means extra income for NZ... if i don't misunderstand part of the boat is financed by NZ... easy to think of reasons for GD willing to be close friends with NZ government and supporting ways to increase income...

so far i can understand.

 

but what if (as a great surprise/ utopia/ ...) s+s would win the prada cup on NZ's B1 and would end up as challengers.... and let's say there is an incident which takes out NZ's B2... can they claim back B1 at that moment in time to continue racing...? (and with that leave the cup in the cupboard...)

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11 minutes ago, daan62 said:

an extra team means extra income for NZ... if i don't misunderstand part of the boat is financed by NZ... easy to think of reasons for GD willing to be close friends with NZ government and supporting ways to increase income...

so far i can understand.

 

but what if (as a great surprise/ utopia/ ...) s+s would win the prada cup on NZ's B1 and would end up as challengers.... and let's say there is an incident which takes out NZ's B2... can they claim back B1 at that moment in time to continue racing...? (and with that leave the cup in the cupboard...)

No need to fret we will just dust off NZL32 wack some foils on her and happy days Cup all good safely tucked up in Westhaven four more years.

BE7DC568-FED6-49B4-BB59-6E0538407119.thumb.jpeg.eb190228523b9bb6a2f16bcf8743f9eb.jpeg

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7 hours ago, RMac said:

"Hey Taylor,  got a GREAT idea, what if we just sailed NZ's boat!?"

"That is a great idea, should we ask them first or just ask the committee?"

"Why on earth would we do that?  Just file the petition, bro"

A few months later:

"Hey Taylor, how the hell do we get this thing off the dock?"

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2 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Facts people! Facts.

The facts seem to be that GD is open to leasing out B1 to the yanks. If he wasn't there would be no application to the AP. In which case he is being an asshole of the same order as previous holders of the Cup.

The 'precious' takes another victim.

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59 minutes ago, Norcal said:

A few months later:

"Hey Taylor, how the hell do we get this thing off the dock?"

Pretty sure that little loon would figure it out, but I still fail to see the point of this challenge continuing. The principals haven't even tied their name to it so there's no loss of prestige... The experience of "almost being an AC team" is pretty worthless... I just don't get it. Unless there's an AC75 that takes the Mackinaw course record someday this still makes no sense for all invoived. 

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30 minutes ago, RMac said:

I just don't get it.

My swag guess is that C&B have some California guy with a few million who they are trying to convince to help them. They call him, he (or she) is nice back, but they have no f’ing clue about the actual details, it’s just a fun make-believe good-vibes conversation. At some point they will say ‘oh no, really? okay well let’s just have lunch at the Club next (or whenever) Sunday afternoon.’ 

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I know I've already said this, but no-one has yet come up with a credible answer. Where's the proof that this actually happening?

TE the master of clickbait comes out with the story, a couple of click bait grabbing media outlets hook on and even claim to have a comment from ETNZ, but I'm yet to see any official written statement from any source confirming or denying the rumour.

I say rumour, because without any confirmation by those in a position to do so it is just that a rumour. You'll excuse me if I continue to question the validity of this whole story until someone can provide solid evidence that it is genuine, until then BS springs to mind.

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49 minutes ago, Woolfy said:

click bait grabbing media outlets hook on and even claim to have a comment from ETNZ

We saw the comments from ETNZ, they were even direct quotes. 
 

TE wouldn’t just make it up, obviously! :) The story he broke is for sure real, whether the attempt comes to anything or not. 

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11 minutes ago, Woolfy said:

Where?

Since you're the one so far behind, shouldn't you do a bit of work and find it yourself? It was in several articles.

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Yes the claim that ETNZ have commented is in several articles, but I've yet to see any official comment, just nebulous claims that a comment has been made. No names given, no statements on any official press releases or social media i.e. No credibility.

Do you not understand what I'm saying? 

Or are you that far behind?

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2 minutes ago, Woolfy said:

Yes the claim that ETNZ have commented is in several articles, but I've yet to see any official comment, just nebulous claims that a comment has been made. No names given, no statements on any official press releases or social media i.e. No credibility.

Do you not understand what I'm saying? 

Or are you that far behind?

Then go find an "official comment" if you need it. No one here has claimed anything other than what has been reported.

Run along toddler.

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21 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Then go find an "official comment" if you need it. No one here has claimed anything other than what has been reported.

Run along toddler.

So you're talking shit based on hearsay, nothing new there.

From July last year, I'm still waiting for you to explain how the telemetry on the SGP boats works, once again unable to back up the BS, like I said nothing new there.

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Who are you again? I don't remember ever talking to you. You obviously had your feelings hurt though. For that, I'm sorry....that you're not tougher.

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Yes - La TrampaStampa just providing more confirmation of what we have been saying...

2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

 

Quote

Hence the concern of the New Zealand authorities, who have invested money and who fear that the America's Cup 2021 will not fulfill the promise of a tourist and economic return for the nation. The tensions are beginning to be felt.

Quote

Why lose the advantage they (NZ) have accumulated over other teams on the development of the boat - which they have chosen - and therefore undermine the possibility of victory?

Quote

One says, could they agree to take the risk for economic reasons? For the pressures of the government that sees the flop of the economic impact on the islands? But it is also true that they could not care. They have to win the America's Cup, whatever the cost. Is New Zealand going into recession? So? Are they the Minister of Finance, Budget, Labor or Economic Development Kiwi? They don't do politics, they have to defend the trophy. 

Oof. GD doesn't give a damn about his country - just the Cup. Nice.

And then to the S+S fraud and cheating....

Quote

The first reason is precisely economic. Stars & Stripes, the Californian team that had already stepped forward and then backed up, without paying the fee to play (they say they never left the game, but some doubt remains), apparently made a request to the college referee of the America's Cup to obtain the go-ahead to participate in the Prada Cup with boat 1 of the Kiwis. It is clear that if he has submitted the application he must have already started the conversation with Team New Zealand.

What would Dalton and de Nora get? Money for the "rental", perhaps. That don't hurt. But also an extra team in the Prada Cup, which thus enlarges the ranks of the event and goes to occupy a place as a base in the basin that has been set up with government money. Not only. They may find themselves a "satellite" team, or at least not hostile, to be used as a "hare" for training. A super sparring partner, because he uses their boat, of which they know everything and on which they can therefore parameter boat 2. If then Stars & Stripes does well in the Prada Cup, well.

And I absolutely love this one...

Quote

In the background, however, there are the rules. Those who say that the boat with which the America's Cup is run must be built in the country to which they belong. If the Kiwis give their Americans, and the latter will come back into play, the gin & tonic will go sideways to more than one yachtman of the Royal Yacht Squadron in Cowes, where everything was born.

I think I'm starting to become a LR fan! These guys can definiely smack runny little noses! Nice!

But then they slam the YAC too!!!

Quote

In theory. New Zealand should build 17/18: will it make it? Or it will stop at 8, as they say. And if so, will the teams use them in rotation? It is not excluded, however, that the Italian boats, the Persico 69F steal the scene from them. The fleet is already there - the championship is in progress, has opened in Gargnano on Lake Garda and sees four Grand Prix and a stop in Trieste during the Barcolana on the calendar -, the boats are almost the same, they are brought with 3-4 crew members, what does it take to pack them on a ship and bring them to the antipodes at the end of November, when their circuit ends?

So basically GD stole the 69F design and gave it to the Chinese to build and rebrand as the AC9f? Made in China baby.

Not THAT is sailing journalism, my friends. A boot in the nuts when it's well deserved.

Great find Stingers!

 

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1 hour ago, smackdaddy said:

Yes - La TrampaStampa just providing more confirmation of what we have been saying...

 

Oof. GD doesn't give a damn about his country - just the Cup. Nice.

And then to the S+S fraud and cheating....

And I absolutely love this one...

I think I'm starting to become a LR fan! These guys can definiely smack runny little noses! Nice!

But then they slam the YAC too!!!

So basically GD stole the 69F design and gave it to the Chinese to build and rebrand as the AC9f? Made in China baby.

Not THAT is sailing journalism, my friends. A boot in the nuts when it's well deserved.

Great find Stingers!

 

Nothing to see here. Everyone’s moved on from this nothing burger.

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1 hour ago, smackdaddy said:

Not THAT is sailing journalism, my friends. A boot in the nuts when it's well deserved.

Agreed, that’s a hard-hitter from Italy. 
 

Any doubt now, about if LR will support the proposed S+S fiasco? :D

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10 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Agreed, that’s a hard-hitter from Italy. 
 

Any doubt now, about if LR will support the proposed S+S fiasco? :D

I sure don't see it. But there is definitely more going on under the surface here. GD is looking sleazier and sleazier by the hour.

Just as the article implied, the Emiratis and cratering New Zealand's squeaky clean image like nothing else in history. The NZ public are going to be pulling for LR soon...just to get the Emiratis out of the country.

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Agreed, that’s a hard-hitter from Italy. 
 

Any doubt now, about if LR will support the proposed S+S fiasco? :D

Who cares? If they make it, great, if they don't, who gives a fuck? There a 4 extremely talented teams this cycle sailing revolutionary new boats. 

Anyway, if Te Aihe is as slow as the trolls think it is, the others have nothing to worry about. The fact that you, and the other trolls (Shitdaddy, and Trollnado c*nt) are this worried about Te Aihe being used just speaks to the fact that you all think she is a force to be reckoned with.

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8 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Who cares? If they make it, great, if they don't, who gives a fuck? There a 4 extremely talented teams this cycle sailing revolutionary new boats. 

Anyway, if Te Aihe is as slow as the trolls think it is, the others have nothing to worry about. The fact that you, and the other trolls (Shitdaddy, and Trollnado c*nt) are this worried about Te Aihe being used just speaks to the fact that you all think she is a force to be reckoned with.

Te Ahmed is definitely "a force to be reckoned with"  - down and into the cake...

EasyEnviousAsianelephant-small.gif.34991942a2bae337c7b8eb90f2a88839.gif

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1 hour ago, smackdaddy said:

Te Ahmed is definitely "a force to be reckoned with"  - down and into the cake...

EasyEnviousAsianelephant-small.gif.34991942a2bae337c7b8eb90f2a88839.gif

You keep posting this gif of your wife, the morning after she married you. You really ought to move on. This is not healthy.

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4 hours ago, fish7yu said:

The wife is the one on the right? :huh:

Correct, and that is her great grandaughter who is fainting into the Gateaux when she becomes aware that Her beloved Great Gran Me Ma has gotten mixed up with Spam Daddy......

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I just love how so many commentors from countries with still far from controlled Covid outbreaks wrecking their economies seem to think that NZ somehow has a more severe economic issue than their own.

Life is almost entirely back to normal here except tourism, foreign students & fences/guards around quarantine hotels.

Its still a big economic hit but much less than everyone else is facing for the foreseeable future.

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^A corollary is people from places with controlled or better (like NZ) covid complaining they should have done herd and stayed open for the economy and that other countries should do that now. Problem is, when bodies start piling up in refrigerator trucks, people start losing interest in movies, shopping, etc. But they didn't experience that. 

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16 hours ago, hoom said:

I just love how so many commentors from countries with still far from controlled Covid outbreaks wrecking their economies seem to think that NZ somehow has a more severe economic issue than their own.

Life is almost entirely back to normal here except tourism, foreign students & fences/guards around quarantine hotels.

Its still a big economic hit but much less than everyone else is facing for the foreseeable future.

Couldn't agree more. Day 2 of curfews and lockdowns here. 40 days to go...

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On 8/2/2020 at 10:04 PM, Forourselves said:

Who cares?

You did. When you thought this no show was going to show. Every cup has 40 percent no shows. I don't get why this one is different and why Kiwi's seem to care so much that this team that doesn't exist shows up.

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29 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

You did. When you thought this no show was going to show. Every cup has 40 percent no shows. I don't get why this one is different and why Kiwi's seem to care so much that this team that doesn't exist shows up.

I want as many teams as possible because more teams makes for a better  event no matter how competitive or uncompetitive. Every Cup has had the so called easy beats. If the Arb Panel rules in their favour, great! I think it’s great! If not, it’s no skin off my nose. It’s dickheads like you that turn up just to Troll, and hate on the event and those that want it to be a success that should look at themselves in the fucking mirror.

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3 hours ago, Forourselves said:

I want as many teams as possible because more teams makes for a better  event no matter how competitive or uncompetitive. Every Cup has had the so called easy beats. If the Arb Panel rules in their favour, great! I think it’s great! If not, it’s no skin off my nose. It’s dickheads like you that turn up just to Troll, and hate on the event and those that want it to be a success that should look at themselves in the fucking mirror.

This is one point of view I don't hear much. Dalts said at the get go he wants a great event and will help any team get to the line. I realize that the prot may get changed. But the end result is no different than any other multi challenger match. At the end of the day, one team will become the challenger and race the def one on one. Why all the shade on etnz for helping out? If they do sell b1 on it just puts them in a more precarious position with one boat.if the other challs agree to the inclusion, which I heard they do, what's the deal? 

Anyway, like so much on here, patience. Before launching bitter attacks wait until the picture becomes clearer rather than going code red.

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9 minutes ago, barfy said:

This is one point of view I don't hear much. Dalts said at the get go he wants a great event and will help any team get to the line. I realize that the prot may get changed. But the end result is no different than any other multi challenger match. At the end of the day, one team will become the challenger and race the def one on one. Why all the shade on etnz for helping out? If they do sell b1 on it just puts them in a more precarious position with one boat.if the other challs agree to the inclusion, which I heard they do, what's the deal? 

Anyway, like so much on here, patience. Before launching bitter attacks wait until the picture becomes clearer rather than going code red.

I agree. The S+S team should be applauded for persisting with the challenge until all options are exhausted. I don't understand the hate towards Buckley and Canfield for trying to get, and keep their foot in the door. Both Buckley and Canfield are highly respected and highly skilled sailors who have a long list of accomplishments, so why people hate on them for simply trying to follow their dream of entering the Americas Cup is ridiculous, especially from guys like Tom Ehman. How a guy like Ehman could possibly say "Canfield, Buckley and LBYC should be ashamed of themselves"is a joke, considering the shenanigans Ehman has been involved in over the years. 

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If there was actually any indication that S&S actually have the $$$ for some quality sailors & well actually buying some sails I'd be happier about...

 

...Well I'd be happier about them sailing AMs boat WHICH IS THE FUCKING ONLY BOAT THEY CAN SAIL other than one they build themselves.

 

More teams is nice but not if you fuck over the DoG in doing so.

And if you don't care about the DoG fuck off & sail/fanboy some failed/ing GP series like Larrys 50s.

This is the AC, DoG is what matters here.

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On the shenanigans related to S+S - read the inverse of this from the HVA:

Quote

2. (b) ACE and ETNZ acknowledge that the Hosts have an interest in the Protocol which is
limited to any future amendments that adversely impact on the Hosts’ return on the
Hosts’ Contribution or that could increase the costs of the Hosts. ACE and ETNZ
agree not to support any Protocol amendment which either creates an extra cost
burden for the Hosts or could adversely impact on the return on the Hosts’
Contribution (including impacting the Hosts’ access to Rights and Benefits), or have
the potential to do so, without obtaining the Hosts’ prior approval of any such
amendments.

Since LR are also a party to this agreement - it could be they let this happen for some imagined improvement to the financial dumpster fire that is AC36. But that's the kicker - would allowing S+S in via a historically sleazy route actually make any impact on the finances? Only if they have a benefactor willing to throw some money in if they get in.

This feels a lot more like GD working under the table than anything else because...

Quote

4(c) The parties agree that the Hosts are not required to engage with the Challenger of
Record or the Title Sponsor in relation to the Events.

And because they are out of money at the worst possible time.

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And this is why S+S have stayed in play...

Quote

6(b) The Hosts agree that any decrease in the number of Teams competing in one or more
of the Events, from the number of Teams registered to compete in the Events as at 31
March 2019, as a result of mechanical failure in, or damage to, a Team Boat will not
constitute a breach of clause 6(a)(vi)(B).

 and that clause...

Quote

6(vi) deliver the Events to a standard that a reasonable objective person would view
as being no less than the corresponding events for the 35th America’s Cup.
Notwithstanding the foregoing, such a standard includes there being:
(A) quality on the water race management under the control of the
independent Regatta Director supported by suitably qualified race
officials;
(B) subject to clause 6(b), a minimum of four participating Teams;

Something tells me GD is going down.

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Ummm, there are four participating teams?  ETNZ, AM, Prada and Ineos ...  Or is every cup considered a single event?  I would have thought the challenger series and AC = one event

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4 minutes ago, P Flados said:

The text says "the events". Note the plural nature of the text.  If the whole thing was what they meant it would have been "the event".

It’s been pointed out by various posters, and by RG too, that the CSS round robins would include a lot more races with 4 entries in it. I forget the number but it would be significant to the overall number of ‘Prada Cup’ races. 

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It's  6(b) in #857.  S+S was officially a challenger as of 31 March and was registered. If they drop out due to mechanical failure or boat damage, no problem. Dropping out due to no money and allowing them to  be registered due to inadequate diligence, problem.

Gawd I hope they don't damage any other boats as well as whatever they are "sailing."

@smackdaddy good work. Using your powers for investigation rather than snark produces impressive results. 

There may be more. I found a redacted HVA at https://www.aucklandnz.com/node/396989

Not sure if it's latest and best. Wow.

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43 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

It's  6(b) in #857.  S+S was officially a challenger as of 31 March and was registered. If they drop out due to mechanical failure or boat damage, no problem. Dropping out due to no money and allowing them to  be registered due to inadequate diligence, problem.

Gawd I hope they don't damage any other boats as well as whatever they are "sailing."

@smackdaddy good work. Using your powers for investigation rather than snark produces impressive results. 

There may be more. I found a redacted HVA at https://www.aucklandnz.com/node/396989

Not sure if it's latest and best. Wow.

I only snark at those who throw snark. It's just I'm better at it than most. They don't stand a chance...because I don't mind putting in the work to back up what I say.

So thanks.

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On 5/13/2020 at 6:20 PM, Lickindip said:

image.thumb.png.0d0e95e51a35a8ccb13566de1d37355c.png

I think its the Quantum Racing Tp52 that was a canceled order. Parking spots are about 9 feet wide and the airal view shows about 6 spaces that's only 54 feet long

image.png.84b1fad26583b5658566c8befd99699d.png

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10 minutes ago, boyscout said:

I think its the Quantum Racing Tp52 that was a canceled order.

Did DeVos have a new boat lined up for the US circuit? The most recent Quantum 52s have been built at Longitud Cero in Spain, current one was 2018 and there hasn't been a new one since then. 

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30 minutes ago, NZK said:

Did DeVos have a new boat lined up for the US circuit? The most recent Quantum 52s have been built at Longitud Cero in Spain, current one was 2018 and there hasn't been a new one since then. 

They started to build 2018 in Holland, Mi. Stopped and then restarted in Spain. 

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Do we know the consequences if less ?

Oh yes...

Quote

19. Escalation process


(a) ACE and ETNZ acknowledge and agree that if at any time during the Term:
(i) it is determined by ACE (or COR) that one or more of the Events is likely to
occur in a country that is not New Zealand;
(ii) it becomes likely that a credible event with no less than four competing Teams
is not going to take place (the Hosts acknowledging that there will only be two
Teams competing in the Match)
; or
(iii) any other material adverse event occurs in relation to the management and
delivery of the Events, including if the Hosts believe on reasonable grounds that
there is a serious risk to the health and safety of members of the public in
relation to delivery of the Events,
ACE will deliver to the Hosts a notice detailing the relevant event, or likely event, and
how, if possible, ACE plans to remedy such event (if possible) and the timing in
respect of such remedy or the Hosts will deliver to ACE a notice detailing the relevant
event or likely event (an Escalation Notice).


(b) The parties will meet within Business Days of the Hosts receipt of an
Escalation Notice to discuss a resolution of the event or likely event.
(c) If the parties cannot agree a resolution, including a timeframe for effecting such
resolution, within Business Days of meeting to discuss the Escalation
Notice, without prejudice to any other rights under this Agreement, the Hosts will have
the right (but not the obligation) to, on notice to ACE:
(i) if the event is one identified in clause 19(a)(i), clause 19(a)(ii) or clause
19(a)(iii), terminate this Agreement in accordance with clause 22.1;
(ii) exercise the rights held by ACE to run the Events;
(iii) withhold any further Event Investments due and payable to ACE; and/or
(iv) require that ACE repay to the Hosts the amount of the Event Investment already
paid to ACE at the time of giving the Escalation Notice and not yet spent by
ACE.

So - this is actually very interesting. By keeping S+S on the roster, GD avoids the red stuff. And with the purple stuff, he could potentially have an out due to COVID (that would have screwed him otherwise). Remember, it appears that GD scored government funds for COVID - so maybe that now gives him some leverage if the S+S thing doesn't fly. Could you imagine GD having to give back all the Host investment right now????

The bottom line is that MBIE has to be looking long and hard at all this - because they are COMPLETELY SCREWED right now. Is the political damage of blowing all this up too much for MBIE - so they are willing to eat the loss and look the other way? And is GD still cashing multiple checks? Who knows?

Again, my growing hunch is that this investigation is centered around S+S and what you see above. And it's also why GD won't/can't postpone the event. There's just no way out. It will be interesting to see how this plays.

It's like Somalia down there.

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25 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

I believe the Host Investment is $40 million NZD. 

Does this mean Host not ACE could run the Cup events? Or Events? 

That's one of the options in red as you can see. Looks like they've already exercised their right to withhold further investment while the investigation is going. But I can promise you, the arbitration panel looking at the S+S thing is NOTHING compared to this. This the real story.

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Your Kiwi bureaucracy and ignorance doesn't matter all with regards to this agreement. It's all there very clearly.

MBIE, of course, will choose to do what it chooses to do. And there are, obviously, both political and financial implications to whatever is decided. But they obviously had enough "business acumen" to draw this thing up. And now it's time to decide if/how to enforce it.

I think this is a bit above your pay grade.

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The parties acknowledge and agree that the Events are to take place a substantial period of time after the Commencement Date. The parties agree that if events arise in connection with the Events that are unforeseen and that require additional resource from the Hosts and or ACE than that contemplated at the Commencement Date (each an Unforeseen Event), the parties will meet to discuss and work through the: (i) detail of such Unforeseen Events; (ii) consequences and potential consequences to the parties and the Events as a result of such Unforeseen Events; and (iii) proposed remedies or actions to be undertaken in relation to the Unforeseen Events. For the avoidance of doubt, nothing in this clause affects clause 7.2(b) and clause 23.

7.2 Acknowledgements

ACE and ETNZ acknowledge and agree that:

(b) the Event Investment, together with the Public Sector Delivery Obligations (including the provision of the required infrastructure for the Events) and any other obligations of the Hosts under this Agreement and any amounts that the Hosts determine to pay in connection with the ETNZ Team Base, (Hosts’ Contribution) is the maximum financial contribution available from the Hosts and the risk of any increased costs either for the management of the Event or the conduct of the sporting campaign for the Defence over ACE and ETNZ’s budgeted costs shall lie solely with ACE and ETNZ. Both ACE and ETNZ warrant not to seek (directly or indirectly, including through statements to the media and others) any contributions above the Hosts’ Contribution from the Hosts.

23. Force Majeure

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39 minutes ago, Hawke said:

I think you'll find it was ETNZ's lawyers that drew the agreement up.

Don't give up your day job!  Woops sorry this is your day job!

You actually think he could hold down a day job?!?  Contrary to popular belief, we do actually have some standards hear in the U.S.

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3 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

If S+S money by some miracle flows into this thing, then into who’s coffer/pocket would it go? 

Surely it would flow into ETNZ's pocket, if it is indeed, their boat being sold.

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TE made the observation today in a short AC segment at the end of his live show that ‘Events’ has a Prot definition that defines them as all events, not only the AC Match, and so all events are also covered by the Prot’s defn of CIC. 

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Yeah - that same kind of language is in the HVA.

And, though a bit squishy here an there, it also breaks the Emiratis out as separate from those other participating teams. This is why S+S is such a critical piece to this puzzle.

Quote

20. Specific performance
The parties acknowledge that, in the event of any breach or threatened breach of this
Agreement by a party, damages may not be an adequate remedy and a party may seek
specific performance of the terms of this Agreement or injunctive relief or any similar remedy,
in addition to any other rights, powers or remedies provided under this Agreement or by Law
(including equity).

So does MBIE get the Royal KiWhingerTM Yacht Squadron?

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12 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

TE made the observation today in a short AC segment at the end of his live show that ‘Events’ has a Prot definition that defines them as all events, not only the AC Match, and so all events are also covered by the Prot’s defn of CIC. 

TE is a specialist in this area, we shouldn’t be surprised. Nailed it. 

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Are the screws tightening?

Quote

22.1 Termination by the Hosts
(a) The Hosts may terminate this Agreement by written notice to ACE and the other
parties to this Agreement with immediate effect on the date of termination specified in
that notice and without limiting any other rights or remedies available to the Hosts
under this Agreement or at Law:
(i) if there is an Insolvency Event in respect of ACE or ETNZ; or
(ii) if ACE or ETNZ commits a material breach of this Agreement (which does not
include a failure to the extent that failure arises from a Force Majeure Event) or
any warranty becomes untrue at any time (a Material Breach) which is:
(A) not capable of being remedied; or
(B) capable of being remedied and the Material Breach has not been
remedied by 30 Business Days following written notice from the Hosts to
ACE (specifying in detail the nature of the Material Breach) to remedy
such Material Breach; or
(iii) if the Hosts have the right to terminate under clause 19(c)(i); or
(iv) if it is determined that any Personnel of ACE or ETNZ are defrauding, or
attempting to defraud or conspiring to defraud the Hosts or are committing any
offence under any laws in respect of fraud or corruption in relation to the Events
or the Event Investment is misused, misapplied or misappropriated (an
Offence) and ACE or ETNZ is unable to remedy the Offence to the Hosts
satisfaction, for example by way of refunding any amount of misappropriated
Event Investment or terminating the relevant Personnel’s employment, within 30
Business Days following written notice of determination of the Offence from the
Hosts to ACE.

 

(b) Without limiting any other rights or remedies of the Hosts, but subject to clause
22.1(c), if the Hosts terminate this Agreement, ACE must repay to the Hosts the
amount of the Event Investment already paid to ACE at the time of termination
...

Oof.

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19 hours ago, Forourselves said:

I want as many teams as possible because more teams makes for a better  event no matter how competitive or uncompetitive. Every Cup has had the so called easy beats. If the Arb Panel rules in their favour, great! I think it’s great! If not, it’s no skin off my nose. It’s dickheads like you that turn up just to Troll, and hate on the event and those that want it to be a success that should look at themselves in the fucking mirror.

Maybe, maybe not. The big event has always been about two teams, the challenger and defender. Challenger series are fun to watch (and defender too, back in the old days), but it boils  down to two teams. Minor teams that lack funding in the challenger series, like team france last time, well... I love what Cammas has done, he is one of my heros, and he deserves better, ... but they were not really the ones that got the ratings. This game has always been about the money. If you can afford to play, cool. If not, go away. Whatever, begging is not part of the AC.

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13 hours ago, hoom said:

...Well I'd be happier about them sailing AMs boat WHICH IS THE FUCKING ONLY BOAT THEY CAN SAIL other than one they build themselves.

That is what the AP needs to rule on. There is no doubt that to participate in the CSS and cup itself they will need a boat that measures and hence complies with the constructed in country requirement.

However, outside of those two events, a challenger may well be free to sail anything they want, just that a monohull over 13m will count as one of the two allowed hulls, whether it measures or not (i.e. is a surrogate). So if they only intend to build one hull, why not borrow one for training as the second allowed hull?

This  really is hanging on by a thread, I think the timeline to the CSS is now so short that surely their real hull is built and being fitted out. 

22 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Ok, DOA.

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5 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

So, the Arb Panel, has ruled against S+S. Can we all move on from this now? Sheesh.

It’s been a big story in this Cup cycle, including in mass media. Ignore it if you like (nobody else will) but the fallout could get very interesting.

Am looking forward to ETNZ’s response.

 

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Just now, Stingray~ said:

It’s been a big story in this Cup cycle, including in  mass media. Ignore it if you like but the fallout could be very interesting.

 

Ugh, only to those with too much time on their hands.

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2 minutes ago, RobG said:

That is what the AP needs to rule on. There is no doubt that to participate in the CSS and cup itself they will need a boat that measures and hence complies with the constructed in country requirement.

However, outside of those two events, a challenger may well be free to sail anything they want, just that a monohull over 13m will count as one of the two allowed hulls, whether it measures or not (i.e. is a surrogate). So if they only intend to build one hull, why not borrow one for training as the second allowed hull?

This really is hanging on by a thread, I think the timeline to the CSS is now so short that surely their real hull is built and being fitted out. 

Link?

Stingray posted the decision above

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2 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

It’s been a big story in this Cup cycle, including in  mass media. Ignore it if you like but the fallout could get very interesting.

Am looking forward to ETNZ’s response.

 

They don't need to. They were never involved in the first place.

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Just now, Forourselves said:

Ugh, only to those with too much time on their hands.

C’mon, 4, you are as obsessed with AC36 as anyone else! Lol

Yes, the subject will drop off over time but just think about where this SA AC thread has evolved to! It’s been hilarious, still is. 

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27 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Amusing to compare RG conclusions:

"Of course, the Challengers as a group could also decide that they will race on their first-generation boats in the ACWS/Christmas Cup - and completely deny Emirates Team New Zealand any opportunity to benchmark their race boat against the Challengers second-generation AC75's.

The Deed of Gift doesn't and has never applied to previous ACWS events. The Deed of Gift has as much relevance as the Rules of Rugby to the ACWS/Christmas Cup. In the lead up to the 2013 and 2017 America's Cup many of the AC45's used in the America's Cup World Series were constructed at Core Builders Composite facility, in New Zealand."

 

With the decision:

"The term “Events” (referred to in Art. 5 of the Protocol) is a term defined in the
Protocol and includes the America’s Cup World Series, the Christmas Cup, the
America’s Cup Challenger Selection Series and the Match.

In light of all of the above, the Panel considers that the “constructed in country”
requirement contained in the Deed of Gift and in the Protocol applies to all Events
as defined by Art. 5 of the Protocol, and therefore not only to the Match."

 

I understand that Gladwell is supporting his team but he looks like GD speaker.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Stingray~ said:

C’mon, 4, you are as obsessed with AC36 as anyone else! Lol

Yes, the subject will drop off over time but just think about where this SA AC thread has evolved to! It’s been hilarious, still is. 

I am. But FFS, there are 4 extremely capable and talented teams participating in this thing. Yet you seem to be obsessed with a team that isn't!

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4 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Amusing to compare RG conclusions:

"Of course, the Challengers as a group could also decide that they will race on their first-generation boats in the ACWS/Christmas Cup - and completely deny Emirates Team New Zealand any opportunity to benchmark their race boat against the Challengers second-generation AC75's.

The Deed of Gift doesn't and has never applied to previous ACWS events. The Deed of Gift has as much relevance as the Rules of Rugby to the ACWS/Christmas Cup. In the lead up to the 2013 and 2017 America's Cup many of the AC45's used in the America's Cup World Series were constructed at Core Builders Composite facility, in New Zealand."

 

With the decision:

"The term “Events” (referred to in Art. 5 of the Protocol) is a term defined in the
Protocol and includes the America’s Cup World Series, the Christmas Cup, the
America’s Cup Challenger Selection Series and the Match.

In light of all of the above, the Panel considers that the “constructed in country”
requirement contained in the Deed of Gift and in the Protocol applies to all Events
as defined by Art. 5 of the Protocol, and therefore not only to the Match

Bingo, nice comparative quotes, TC.

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5 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Bingo, nice comparative quotes, TC.

TE is clearly more spot on than RG who appears like the team unofficial speaker, therefore hardly credible on some subjects.

I have to say he is much better regarding the Kiwi boat sailing videos and photos he publishes since he angrily replied me here. :)

 

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