Salty Seacock

Emirates Team New Zealand.

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Was RG sitting on your rock, along side you, Weta27? You're a legend, mate.

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10 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Definitely something there. Can't make the detail out, but unlikely to be speed stripes! ;-)

Looks like flap actuators, but I don't see any on the inboard side.

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2 hours ago, weta27 said:

...

DSC_2791.jpg

She sure looks like she was designed to sail this way. Like it!

Bow down and moving, with a bit of tail wagging.

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9 minutes ago, See Level said:

Looks like flap actuators, but I don't see any on the inboard side.

My visual acuity ain't what it used to be, SL. I'll have to rely on your imagination for now.

Maybe RG has gotten a bit closer???

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46 minutes ago, barfy said:

And I see fences or some such on the bottom outboard end of the main foil.

Sorry I wasn't close enough to pick out whether they are fences or stripes and, squinting at front-on shots, I can't make out any protrusions.

Three stripes or very low profile fences, on the outer half only, of both foils - this is the starboard "straight" foil:

stbd-foil-1.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Maybe RG has gotten a bit closer???

Possible, he was on the rock, but I was a bit late arriving so missed the tow-out.

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23 minutes ago, meanermachine said:

Definitely missing the sprit... Maybe now it's summer they don't feel the need to use a code zero? Or aero testing?

 

That hole?

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7 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Sorry I wasn't close enough to pick out whether they are fences or stripes and, squinting at front-on shots, I can't make out any protrusions.

Three stripes or very low profile fences, on the outer half only, of both foils - this is the starboard "straight" foil:

stbd-foil-1.jpg

Interesting. Incidentally, the chord on those flaps looks pretty wide, no?

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15 minutes ago, Varan said:

She sure looks like she was designed to sail this way. Like it!

Bow down and moving, with a bit of tail wagging.

No doubt, Smack will be along shortly, to remind us all how unstable she looks. ;-)

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45 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

My visual acuity ain't what it used to be, SL. I'll have to rely on your imagination for now.

Maybe RG has gotten a bit closer???

Don't trust me, I'm on a phone with a cracked screen:)

I have to use my imagination.

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Interesting. Incidentally, the chord on those flaps looks pretty wide, no?

Never had external actuators, don't know why they would regress to them. Flaps max 50% of chord I think. Maybe they are stripes to tell how close to surface, but I reckon by the time you saw a stripe she'd be over rover.

Busy beavers in the shed over Xmas.

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17 minutes ago, barfy said:

Never had external actuators, don't know why they would regress to them. Flaps max 50% of chord I think. Maybe they are stripes to tell how close to surface, but I reckon by the time you saw a stripe she'd be over rover.

Busy beavers in the shed over Xmas.

On underside of foil though, so not much good as a visual aid, I'm thinking. (Except for turtles, ducking and thinking, "Fuck, that was close!" ;-)

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13 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

On underside of foil though, so not much good as a visual aid, I'm thinking. (Except for turtles, ducking and thinking, "Fuck, that was close!" ;-)

That proves it’s not a visual aid. Very few turtles in Auckland. 

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5 hours ago, See Level said:

Where'd the sprit go?

Given that:

17.1 The combination of the bowsprit and the hull shall form a single linear component.

and 

17.2 The bowsprit shall extend from the hull to at least 22.760 m forward of TRP.

I suspect the answer is found somewhere in,

17.5 The bowsprit shall not be bonded to the hull and must be removable for easy replacement.

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1: light and puffy and no need for a code zero ... dont think they will be used in the cup

2: well done on painting the bottom of a foil to add some mystery

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9 hours ago, weta27 said:

They towed out around 11am and the breeze was light and puffy to start with. Foiled down the Channel and headed out to the Bays. The breeze started to build around midday and they got some long runs in, multiple tacks and gybes.

As you can see, there is still a bit of haze from the smoke and they were quite a way out.

The third pic was taken while the breeze was still soft, midway through a tack which was followed by a brief kiss.

The last (distant) pic was taken about 15 mins later and shows the exit from a dry gybe, stbd foil just coming out of the water.

DSC_2783.jpg

 

 

DSC_2813.jpg

Weta ... you're a fucking legend.

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6 hours ago, barfy said:

And I see fences or some such on the bottom outboard end of the main foil.

Reduce ventilation issues?

Aren’t fences usually on the upper side of a wing profile?

 

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On 1/6/2020 at 8:06 PM, phill_nz said:

not according to channel nine or the smh

they had to leave under 5s and the elderly on the beach cause they could not get them safely aboard

those would be the 2 groups most in need of evacuation from areas of bad air quality

 

i repeat

canterbury is rigged for evacuations and civil defence

as for petty grammar nazism

eevn a dpisitck  can raed tihs

 

if the government / nz navy / silly sindy cannot get canterbury to emergency situations before they have fully developed she probably wasnt worth the price

and they are certainly not worth their salary

 

You may be very well be right!

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46 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Aren’t fences usually on the upper side of a wing profile?

 

Some go right round upper and lower surfaces; looks here like they extend a little beyond the foil trailing edge.

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On 1/7/2020 at 12:31 PM, NZL3481 said:

I have relatives who couldn't be evacuated by sea as the navy wasn't taking the elderly, kids under 5 or those with a significant disability. They were airlifted to East Sale, but airlifts were sporadic - hampered by poor visibility.

That sums up published reports very nicely.

The folks the navy was reluctant to carry were actually scheduled for an expedited airlift.  Regrettably flights were delayed for several days due to low visibility caused by smoke.

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48 minutes ago, Groucho Marx said:

Some go right round upper and lower surfaces; looks here like they extend a little beyond the foil trailing edge.

If that's the case I wonder if they are some form or balanced surface/anti flutter devices ala balanced flaps on a plane.

RedBullAirRace.jpg

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RG has some more shots of ETNZ training yesterday.

Emirates Team New Zealand was back on the Waitemata Harbour on Wednesday after the Christmas break, and losing two days due to winds in excess of 35kts.

It appears from the sailing pattern that there has been more upgrades to Te Aihe - probably the last until she leaves for Sardinia in late February or March.

She also has back on board the new world champions in the 49er class and the Finn.

The Paddock has been a favourite training area - usually with laid marks - and running a mix of speed work, testing and mark roundings etc.

https://www.sail-world.com/news/225522/Americas-Cup-A-look-at-Te-Aihe-in-The-Paddock

Pics by: RG

 

yysw277453.jpg

yysw277462.jpg

yysw277461.jpg

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14 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

On underside of foil though, so not much good as a visual aid, I'm thinking. (Except for turtles little blue penguins, ducking and thinking, "Fuck, that was close!" ;-)

 

14 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Very few turtles in Auckland. 

FIFY.

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10 hours ago, kidviciousf2b said:

If that's the case I wonder if they are some form or balanced surface/anti flutter devices ala balanced flaps on a plane.

 

yip that's exactly what those are on the aircraft, they are to assist the pilot as he has direct cables and no hydraulics. hugely draggy so wouldn't expect them on the boats

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I had a chat with one of the officers off HMNZS Canterbury this morning. Asked him whether they were likely to be going over. Lots of reasons but the bottom line is that although if needed they could help the boat is nothing like as well set up for the type of job required as the Australian vessels so although he'd spent the holiday half expecting a call he didn't think it was likely to happen. 

If they do end up being sent over things have got really really terrible, as opposed to really terrible, so hopefully they won't be needed. 

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24 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

What you might call, "Hanging the COR out to dry." Too bad.

You might call that the COR "hanging the other challengers out to dry"...Too bad

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20 minutes ago, uflux said:

You might call that the COR "hanging the other challengers out to dry"...Too bad

I can live with that too. ;-)

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21 hours ago, weta27 said:

Sorry I wasn't close enough to pick out whether they are fences or stripes and, squinting at front-on shots, I can't make out any protrusions.

Three stripes or very low profile fences, on the outer half only, of both foils - this is the starboard "straight" foil:

stbd-foil-1.jpg

Bulbs are next....

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21 hours ago, weta27 said:

Sorry I wasn't close enough to pick out whether they are fences or stripes and, squinting at front-on shots, I can't make out any protrusions.

Three stripes or very low profile fences, on the outer half only, of both foils - this is the starboard "straight" foil:

stbd-foil-1.jpg

Foils need to be symetrical, it's extremely unlikely there are fences only on one side, my guess is lines to make measuring any breaching more accurate, or possibly even for reference when deliberately breaching the foil for testing purposes.

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

What you might call, "Hanging the COR out to dry." Too bad.

It's just calling a spade a spade, it was pretty clearly laid out right from the start that the COR was the representative for all Challengers.

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3 minutes ago, Boybland said:

my guess is lines to make measuring any breaching more accurate

On the underside???

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To hide the joints in the multi sectioned foil flaps.

When view from the outside you can't see the light against the white, making it hard to tell if they are using single or multi part flaps.

Edited by justsomeone

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1 hour ago, Clipper said:

Makes LR look pretty bad/soft/selfish.

Loved the clarification by ETNZ

Any such judgement is premature until Luna Rossa has told its side of the story. Pretty ordinary of ETNZ to air its dirty laundry on the official web site. 

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5 minutes ago, RobG said:

Any such judgement is premature until Luna Rossa has told its side of the story. Pretty ordinary of ETNZ to air its dirty laundry on the official web site. 

I cant think of a single valid reason LR could have for not wanting to race in 25 knots, especially of the other challengers and the defender are happy to?

By valid, I mean valid to me.  Your opinion may be different. But if you cant sail in 25 knots, may as well stay away from Auckland (and yes, i remember TNZ in 2003. I was pretty embarrassed)

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16 minutes ago, mikenz2 said:

Team New Zealand returning to the harbour this afternoon, with a little excitement: 

Some sort of malfunction??

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2 hours ago, uflux said:

You might call that the COR "hanging the other challengers out to dry"...Too bad

Seems like an appropriate characterisation.  If true it won't help LR's position in arbitration.

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8 minutes ago, weta27 said:

 

Some sort of malfunction??

Can help but wonder if they broke something up front.

Thanks for video Mike

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1 hour ago, Boybland said:

Foils need to be symetrical, it's extremely unlikely there are fences only on one side, my guess is lines to make measuring any breaching more accurate, or possibly even for reference when deliberately breaching the foil for testing purposes.

Or they panted the fences on the other side black?

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42 minutes ago, weta27 said:

 

Some sort of malfunction??

The weather arm looks quite low. Hell of a belly flop, looked violent.

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It does indeed "auger well" for these sailors...

1442445399_ScreenShot2020-01-08at8_42_59PM.png.8a2538c272fa183f9f41ede1249985dd.png

It's painfully obvious to all but the Kiwi fans that these guys just can't control this boat - even in mellow conditions. They better come up with a plan. They are WAY behind.

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19 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

It does indeed "auger well" for these sailors...

1442445399_ScreenShot2020-01-08at8_42_59PM.png.8a2538c272fa183f9f41ede1249985dd.png

It's painfully obvious to all but the Kiwi fans that these guys just can't control this boat - even in mellow conditions. They better come up with a plan. They are WAY behind.

Of course they are, they are slow and unstable,  and we can tell that because of the hours and hours and hours of footage we have of the other teams sailing in the same conditions. 

One thing that we can absolutely guarantee is that they do indeed have a plan. 

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43 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

It does indeed "auger well" for these sailors...

yehh we got it the first time you trolled it

now its just boring

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46 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

It does indeed "auger well" for these sailors...

1442445399_ScreenShot2020-01-08at8_42_59PM.png.8a2538c272fa183f9f41ede1249985dd.png

It's painfully obvious to all but the Kiwi fans that these guys just can't control this boat - even in mellow conditions. They better come up with a plan. They are WAY behind.

It's painfully obvious to all but Smackdaddy that ETNZ are TESTING their boat - where they are on the curve compared to other team - No one knows

 

fixed it for ya :P

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4 hours ago, Clipper said:

I cant think of a single valid reason LR could have for not wanting to race in 25 knots, especially of the other challengers and the defender are happy to?

By valid, I mean valid to me.  Your opinion may be different. But if you cant sail in 25 knots, may as well stay away from Auckland (and yes, i remember TNZ in 2003. I was pretty embarrassed)

LR doesn't  have to justify its requirements to anyone. Why do you expect them to justify 20 kn when ETNZ hasn’t publicly justified 24 kn?

LR is not required to achieve some sort of consensus among challengers before approaching ETNZ, that may well make some negotiations impossible. LR is designated as representing all challengers to make life easier for ENTZ. So for ETNZ to complain that LR hasn’t sought support from other challengers for 20 kn is just churlish. All that needed to be said was that they can’t agree on a limit so it will go to arbitration.

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I suppose the ETNZ statement was in response to AM's publicly stated concern that there was a stalemate - obviously they are OK with ETNZ's proposed limits.

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4 hours ago, weta27 said:

 

Some sort of malfunction??

Hard to tell from the angle, but looks like it may have been a last-seoncd manoeuvre to miss the orange kite boarder

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53 minutes ago, RobG said:

So for ETNZ to complain that LR hasn’t sought support from other challengers for 20 kn is just churlish.

I don’t think they’re complaining. 

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36 minutes ago, BSPN said:

Hard to tell from the angle, but looks like it may have been a last-seoncd manoeuvre to miss the orange kite boarder

SNAP !  I was just about to suggest that possibility

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1 hour ago, RobG said:

TZ. So for ETNZ to complain that LR hasn’t sought support from other challengers for 20 kn is just churlish

Wind limits were supposed to have been decided by cor and def, with input from challs. Etnz thought cor had taken on board said input, based on conversations with cor. Both AM and etnz seem surprised by LR's  stance. All fair in war.

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1 hour ago, BSPN said:

Hard to tell from the angle, but looks like it may have been a last-seoncd manoeuvre to miss the orange kite boarder

I think you're right, then there is an interesting spray off the leeward foil just before the boat launches into the air.

Possibly the foil wasnt set up for that tack. 

Edit to add:

On another look, that leeward splash seems to coincide with the windward foil exiting the water. 

Interesting. 

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23 minutes ago, kenergy said:

that leeward splash seems to coincide with the windward foil exiting the water. 

As the foil rises so does the boat fly high.

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5 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

It does indeed "auger well" for these sailors...

1442445399_ScreenShot2020-01-08at8_42_59PM.png.8a2538c272fa183f9f41ede1249985dd.png

It's painfully obvious to all but the Kiwi fans that these guys just can't control this boat - even in mellow conditions. They better come up with a plan. They are WAY behind.

Laugh out loud. The Cup is staying right where it is. So you can piss off and watch your shitty little cheap imitation cats in the unsustainable series.

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2 hours ago, RobG said:

LR doesn't  have to justify its requirements to anyone. Why do you expect them to justify 20 kn when ETNZ hasn’t publicly justified 24 kn?

LR is not required to achieve some sort of consensus among challengers before approaching ETNZ, that may well make some negotiations impossible. LR is designated as representing all challengers to make life easier for ENTZ. So for ETNZ to complain that LR hasn’t sought support from other challengers for 20 kn is just churlish. All that needed to be said was that they can’t agree on a limit so it will go to arbitration.

Actually ETNZ have made it quite clear that they feel less than 24 knots will result in an undesirable amount of disruption to the event, that certainly sounds like an attempt at justification to me.

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1 hour ago, barfy said:

Wind limits were supposed to have been decided by cor and def, with input from challs. Etnz thought cor had taken on board said input, based on conversations with cor. Both AM and etnz seem surprised by LR's  stance. All fair in war.

All I’m saying is that for ETNZ to cast aspersions because LR hasn’t sought input from other challengers is disingenuous.

Protocol article 1.2 says:

The Initial Challenger of Record shall represent all challengers…

that’s it. LR doesn’t have to talk to other challengers or take their opinions into consideration. ETNZ has no reason to expect it would other than LR has used support from other challengers previously on other issues. Whether or not LR seeks support likely depends on the issue.

AM have said they have no say in the limit and just want to know what it is. The surprise is that the issue isn’t sorted, so it will be via the arbitration panel (which might take until 19 March).

 

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56 minutes ago, RobG said:

All I’m saying is that for ETNZ to cast aspersions because LR hasn’t sought input from other challengers is disingenuous.

Protocol article 1.2 says:

The Initial Challenger of Record shall represent all challengers…

that’s it. LR doesn’t have to talk to other challengers or take their opinions into consideration. ETNZ has no reason to expect it would other than LR has used support from other challengers previously on other issues. Whether or not LR seeks support likely depends on the issue.

AM have said they have no say in the limit and just want to know what it is. The surprise is that the issue isn’t sorted, so it will be via the arbitration panel (which might take until 19 March).

 

If someone was representing me without talking to me or taking my opinions into consideration I'd be concerned....

There is a certain level of consultation implied in that statement.

Put that kind of statement into just about any other scenario you can possibly think of and most people would assume the party doing the representation had spoken to those being represented.

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25 minutes ago, Boybland said:

If someone was representing me without talking to me or taking my opinions into consideration I'd be concerned....

There is a certain level of consultation implied in that statement.

Put that kind of statement into just about any other scenario you can possibly think of and most people would assume the party doing the representation had spoken to those being represented.

Couldn't agree more

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Maybe LR finally realises that acting in self-interest gives them their best shot at a successful challenge. 

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I’m sure LR remembers well what total challengers “consultation” brought them in AC35

 

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15 minutes ago, Xlot said:

I’m sure LR remembers well what total challengers “consultation” brought them in AC35

 

To be fair there's a difference between consultation and majority rule particularly if some of the majority are in any way reliant on the defender, so can be influenced by them. 

It strikes me that LR have been rather unsporting in not asking the other challengers opinions. I appreciate that depending on how you read it they're not necessarily required to do so, but by not doing so they're being seen in a bad light and not really representing the rest of the challengers views which is disappointing. If I were on the Abitration panel the lack of consulatation would to me at least, weaken their case. Or is it a case of they didn't ask because they knew they wouldn't like the answer?

Bottom line is if this, or any regatta looses too many race days because the wind limits are too restrictive it reflects poorly on the event and the sport in general. ETNZ seem to have tried to put wind limits in place that will ensure as fewer days are lost as possible, which is surely a good thing? Imagine spending half your years salary to come and experience the event only to fly home again missing the final races because wind limits mean the whole event is behind schedule, I certainly wouldn't be a happy bunny.

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consultation means they gave the opportunity to talk to them and discuss, doesn't mean that LR gave a shit nor took note of there response.

as long as LR has said "they what do you think ..." or "whats your prefered min/max?" then they have consulted.

who knows if S&S requested 30knts and LR have taken a sensible middle ground from everyone :lol:

 

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They had a few issues with getting the sails up this morning, no doubt not made easier by the stiff breeze blowing down the harbor.

Spare a thought for the poor sod up the mast in those conditions!

Eventually everything was sorted and they were up and away in a cloud of spray.

Those strips or stripes don't carry over onto the topside of the foils, and they don't appear to stand out from the foil surface. The fences either side of the foil arm are visible, but no others.

DSC_3275.jpg

DSC_3293.jpg

DSC_3301.jpg

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DSC_3318.jpg

DSC_3319.jpg

DSC_3322.jpg

DSC_3323.jpg

DSC_3328.jpg

DSC_3345.jpg

DSC_3346.jpg

DSC_3349.jpg

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Actually, while searching through my photos from this morning to try and see what the sail problem was, I may have accidentally uncovered a new 'go-faster' feature on Te Aihe. 

I hate to be the one to leak this, but ....

leak.jpg

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9 minutes ago, Rskiff said:

piss tool Pete

Oh. But the Rule’s got to forbid auxiliary reaction propulsion, I’m sure

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got to love the efficiency of using waste energy

 

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the tip of the foil looks like its a pop on pop off attachment

i wonder how many designs they have ready for it .. and what differences it can make

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2 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Those strips - zooming in, they do seem to be slightly raised?

stripes.jpg

That's different to yesterday. I'll try and post a picture, but I noticed when they lifted out there was a protrudence effectively extending the arm out ot the bottom of the foil.

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43 minutes ago, justsomeone said:

Good catch.

Temporary camera housing?

Doubt it, whatever it is it would effect the flow over the foils and therefore it's performance either up or down.

Seeing as it's not there today I'd guess down

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1 hour ago, Rskiff said:

piss tool Pete

So, those rudder post stays are quite multi-purpose.

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3 hours ago, Woolfy said:

Doubt it, whatever it is it would effect the flow over the foils and therefore it's performance either up or down.

Seeing as it's not there today I'd guess down

Looks like the latest ETNZ video may have been taken yesterday, the protrusion is showing:

foil-protrusion-090120.jpg

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5 hours ago, weta27 said:

Actually, while searching through my photos from this morning to try and see what the sail problem was, I may have accidentally uncovered a new 'go-faster' feature on Te Aihe. 

I hate to be the one to leak this, but ....

leak.jpg

Do you remember that rather infamous shot of Sir Peter Blake taking a piss, that The Herald published, Weta27? Hopefully, it's a good omen.

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34 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Looks like the latest ETNZ video may have been taken yesterday, the protrusion is showing:

foil-protrusion-090120.jpg

Not sure that's new, mate. Here's one you took earlier in December. Similar, maybe a bit shorter?

DSC_0197.thumb.jpg.29875831412002c850edd9e6d927ddc7.jpg

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