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It's pissing down outside and yes, we are back to Level 3. To all those moaning and bitching about it and calling the PM childish names, get a grip, we are the luckiest people in the world right

They towed out around 11am and the breeze was light and puffy to start with. Foiled down the Channel and headed out to the Bays. The breeze started to build around midday and they got some long runs i

Yes, quite light but I didn't see all the afternoon's sailing, can only comment on later in the day, when Britannia 2 was running a #1 jib and foiling around no problem. They look quite quick at times

Posted Images

10 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

 

That first shot make it look like TR is, uh, smokin'! (Like a chimney.)

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19 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

But as.was postulated on here some time ago, what if the scale was on the screen surrounds?

Might be something simple like this for gauging approaching leeward boat at 100kph which is hard looking a small screen instead of naked eye

Comparing_reversing_camera_angles.jpg

images.jpeg-2.jpg

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4 hours ago, NZL3481 said:

I think Southern have built rigs for all teams but to customised laminate schedules to achieve the required stiffness/bend characteristics. Build tolerances are very tight though.

I believe the direction of the unidirectional layup is not specified, and thus the characteristics can be changed, as you say.

Somewhat risky business though, as the ultimate breaking strength will be reduced, and they only have 3 chances to get it right.

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8 hours ago, XPRO said:

Similar to the underarm bowl? 

The underarm bowl wasn’t illegal at the time. As a kiwi it seems a big fuss over nothing. 

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8 hours ago, Tommy22 said:

Wasn’t it all Warner’s fault?

My thoughts exactly.  My belief is that Warner was the mastermind behind sandpaper-gate and that Smith took the fall.  Bancroft was the newbie in the team and wanted to fit in, and ended up doing something truly stupid.

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Just now, Ripclaw said:

My thoughts exactly.  My belief is that Warner was the mastermind behind sandpaper-gate and that Smith took the fall.  Bancroft was the newbie in the team and wanted to fit in, and ended up doing something truly stupid.

Yeah and the bowlers knew absolutely nothing ...... 

geez mate the reverse has stated early? Any idea? Nope, new bloke throws me the ball and it’s been going round corners, can’t understand it...

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8 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Yeah and the bowlers knew absolutely nothing ...... 

geez mate the reverse has stated early? Any idea? Nope, new bloke throws me the ball and it’s been going round corners, can’t understand it...

Yes, but which bowlers?  I think that it all comes back to Warner.  Watching Steve Smith's press conference when he landed back in AUS was extremely painful, and I was gutted for him.  This is coming from someone who doesn't like the Aussie cricket team at all.

Speaking of Warner, that last test series against South Africa (in SA) had everything.  It was very contentious, especially with some off-the-field antics at Kingsmead between Quinton de Kock and Warner, on their way up the steps into the Kingsmead dressing rooms.  As we say in SA, a speech was imminent as Faf came out of the change rooms with just a towel wrapped around his body.  Glad that some sanity prevailed, between both teams.

The Warner vs. De Kock incident at Kingsmead

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18 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

They were out today. Reports of them gybing on the foils with the Code Zero. 

Cancel that. Turns out that info was incorrect. No code zero. 

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22 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Cancel that. Turns out that info was incorrect. No code zero. 

I'd love to know what their development plan looks like through to March.

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5 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Glen never struck me as a tall guy, but geeze. 

I suspect he’s learnt to live with his height.  That growing bold spot might be causing some angst though.

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38 minutes ago, Varan said:

20210104_164935.thumb.jpg.6ca922688da29e344b5533668981df0e.jpg

Going out?

 

Or maybe coming back? Sure miss Weta since he went pro :unsure:

Ya...Did you sign a non-spy agreement @weta27 ? 

There's nothing but Shit talk on here atm. No pics = no facts.

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16 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

 

 

So ETNZ won't touch a Code 0 in a race but is all over it like a cheap suit during practice?

It seems to be that Gladwell has got it right in that ETNZ are working on some "secret sauce" regarding ye olde code zero.

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2 hours ago, jaysper said:

So ETNZ won't touch a Code 0 in a race but is all over it like a cheap suit during practice?

It seems to be that Gladwell has got it right in that ETNZ are working on some "secret sauce" regarding ye olde code zero.

NZ have previously tested a slightly smaller CZ (on B1) - I suppose you could call it a Code One?

I wouldn't be surprised if they were now testing a flatter-cut CZ to see if they can extend the AWS range. They did revert to a J1 later in the video.

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7 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

NZ have previously tested a slightly smaller CZ (on B1) - I suppose you could could call it a Code One?

I wouldn't be surprised if they were now testing a flatter-cut CZ to see if they can extend the AWS range. They did revert to a J1 later in the video.

Gladwell suggested that ETNZ might be working on a way of changing headsails mid race to provide them with an option when the wind drops to fuck all during a race the same as the xmas race disaster.

I guess the same kind of functionality as a furler but without leaving it up in the air stream where it will act like an anchor.

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

Gladwell suggested that ETNZ might be working on a way of changing headsails mid race to provide them with an option when the wind drops to fuck all during a race the same as the xmas race disaster.

I guess the same kind of functionality as a furler but without leaving it up in the air stream where it will act like an anchor.

Deck furler?

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21 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Deck furler?

Pardon my ignorance (what I sail on barely passes as a boat) but still requires at least two halyards up at any one time?

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3 hours ago, jaysper said:

Pardon my ignorance (what I sail on barely passes as a boat) but still requires at least two halyards up at any one time?

There was a query in the list of interpretations posted about using a code zero on the foresail halyard.  I didn't click through to see the result was.

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On 1/4/2021 at 6:06 AM, NZL3481 said:

I think Southern have built rigs for all teams but to customised laminate schedules to achieve the required stiffness/bend characteristics. Build tolerances are very tight though.

AFAIK Southern have built the spars for INEOS, LR, and ETNZ. Magic built their's in the US - I believe it was in-house/contracted staff building at the Offshore Spars facility. 

 

8 hours ago, rh3000 said:

Deck furler?

There's some pretty interesting tech employed on big superyachts that pulls a furled headsail or kite down below deck onto a large drum. Not sure what the weight penalty would be to implement something like this on an AC75...

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12 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

NZ have previously tested a slightly smaller CZ (on B1) - I suppose you could call it a Code One?

I wouldn't be surprised if they were now testing a flatter-cut CZ to see if they can extend the AWS range. They did revert to a J1 later in the video.

Well that would make sense.  The wind range in March in a La Nina year is towards the lower end of the racing range NOT the high end.

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2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

no, any sails have to be stored on deck, part of the class rule.

So the choices presumably are:

1. Find some super streamlined way of swapping and storing sails.

2. Find some way of reefing the sail in such a way as to not cop a drag penalty.

3. Suck it up and live with one sail.

If #2, how would they do this? How could you furl it so it didn't increase drag and maintained the right position relative to the mast? Furl at the back and drop the point of attachment? Meh. Fuck nose.

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18 hours ago, jaysper said:

So the choices presumably are:

1. Find some super streamlined way of swapping and storing sails.

2. Find some way of reefing the sail in such a way as to not cop a drag penalty.

3. Suck it up and live with one sail.

If #2, how would they do this? How could you furl it so it didn't increase drag and maintained the right position relative to the mast? Furl at the back and drop the point of attachment? Meh. Fuck nose.

A downhaul fed from between the 2 main skins so it furls the C0 in between them. No drag penalty

And no, I am not serious about it being a viable method, just occurred to me when someone talked about the 2 skins keeping the  main control systems out of the flow. Wish it were though. We could get sail handling back as a core skill

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The only way to increase sail area for light air is a Code Zero.  But you have to be able to race with it when a smaller jib would probably be faster.

So you have to settle for slow foiling over not foiling, and that is very hard to predict.  In the ACWC it seemed like the teams sat there and tried to match wat the other team was setting instead of taking a chance at being wrong. 

It seems to me that they remove the forestay to make tacking and gybing on foils possible.  If you had to roll it up you couldn't fly through either.

SHC

 

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1 hour ago, enigmatically2 said:

A downhaul fed from between the 2 main skins so it furls the C0 in between them. No drag penalty

And no, I am not serious about it being a viable method, just occurred to me when someone talked about the 2 skins keeping the  main control systems out of the flow. Wish it were though. We could get sail handling back as a core skill

From what Nathan and Ken were talking about , there seems to be little actual sail handling at all during racing with potentially most of the decision making regarding sail shape handed over to a computer.

Sure, there is a huge amount of skill on behalf of the teams to optimize this automated decision making process but we don't get see any of it.

So yeah, I agree. Some good old fashion sail handling would be lovely.

I used to love watching the teams time the drop and the occasional resulting trawl.

Now I'm fucked if I can if they are going up wind or down.

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On 1/4/2021 at 6:52 PM, Varan said:

20210104_164935.thumb.jpg.6ca922688da29e344b5533668981df0e.jpg

Going out?

 

Or maybe coming back? Sure miss Weta since he went pro :unsure:

Can't blame him for trying to earn some money from his skills and effort.  

He has this one shot to take advantage of his opportunity, but we do miss his pics.

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Have ETNZ put a new mast on as well as INEOS? There are no media camera's in that last video that were fitted to the masts used in the Xmas regatta. 

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Due to lack of racing I watched ACWS stern cams last night. Race 4 day 1 (2:14:53) , AM vs TRT. Hadnt noticed all the hydraulic issues we had, pumping oil aboard right up to prestart, lack of accumulator pressure at times, GA saying "no clutch" several times. They also nearly hit the port channel buoy after tacking and splashed down. Bit of a shocker all round. I am not sure swapping sides and being blind to leeward is a good idea at all.  However the onboard comms is far far better than any commentary, you can hear exactly what is going on tactically. These things are weapons and need the whole team to sail.

Also "Pistol" lives up to his name saying "firing" whenever a board goes down.

https://youtu.be/4jG65RWzmnw

 

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1 hour ago, Mozzy Sails said:

Have ETNZ put a new mast on as well as INEOS? There are no media camera's in that last video that were fitted to the masts used in the Xmas regatta. 

good catch. Im pretty sure that they are required to use the camera one in the actual racing so it's a fair assumption that it may be getting some updates

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11 minutes ago, MrBump said:

good catch. Im pretty sure that they are required to use the camera one in the actual racing so it's a fair assumption that it may be getting some updates

Whoever designed the mast camera mounts needs to walk the plank.  They looked like two buckets bolted onto the mast! 

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12 minutes ago, Indio said:

Interesting Interpretations below

071 - relating to Ineos' or ETNZ's foils? Interpretation 071.pdf

072 - LR's look-mamma-no-backstay approach or ETNZ's "secret" mainsail sauce hinted at by others? Interpretation 072.pdf

 

71 is surely about etnz single flap foil?

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6 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

71 is surely about etnz single flap foil?

Yep.

It would seem other teams are trying to get the single flap ruled out unsuccessfully by looks of it.

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Well... a single flap is ruled out, the class rule s pretty clear, and interp 24 clears that up.

However this interp seems to come about because ENTZ are connecting their two flaps with a 'connector piece'. 

24 says they may only move as one if they are adjusted the same by the foil system. I suppose there might be a gain from having less foil systems to fit inside the foil and connecting the two as a single flap

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To be honest having a rule that might rule out a simple single flap is a pretty dumb idea in the first place.

It's a bit like not allowing a single jib car on a single full width track.

Making it complicated for no other reason than to make it comlicated...  LR wanted to see people pull on ropes and adjust things like in the ye olden days.

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On 1/5/2021 at 1:52 PM, Varan said:

Sure miss Weta since he went pro :unsure:

Ha ha, so nice that you missed me!

No, I haven't gone pro, just a family Christmas down-country, then we walked the Milford Track.

I did have my phone camera with me, but not an AC75 to be seen on either trip, sorry.

Back to North Head tomorrow, weather permitting.

Thanks to Justin and Gilles for the very nice video coverage while I was away, great to see.

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Just noticed the water spray coming off the skeg just after a maneuver in this latest vid by Justin - Good visual demonstration of just how much air is trying to go laterally under the boat. 

TR Skeg Spray.jpg

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21 minutes ago, D_Dog said:

Just noticed the water spray coming off the skeg just after a maneuver in this latest vid by Justin - Good visual demonstration of just how much air is trying to go laterally under the boat. 

TR Skeg Spray.jpg

Right. And why they are all trying to close the gap.

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13 minutes ago, zillafreak said:

Right. And why they are all trying to close the gap.

Makes me wonder how much leeward force they experience when they 'close the gap' ?

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1 hour ago, MaxHugen said:

Makes me wonder how much leeward force they experience when they 'close the gap' ?

Not more than can be overcome with more foil flap.  Also it is lift down low so it means they can trim more main and still have the moments balance to boot.  If you raise up and loose the endplate you probably have to twist off the top of the main at the same time.

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4 hours ago, weta27 said:

Ha ha, so nice that you missed me!

No, I haven't gone pro, just a family Christmas down-country, then we walked the Milford Track.

I did have my phone camera with me, but not an AC75 to be seen on either trip, sorry.

Back to North Head tomorrow, weather permitting.

Thanks to Justin and Gilles for the very nice video coverage while I was away, great to see.

Weta thank God you're back.  Can you get down to ETNZ and see if you can pick out the mods on TR?  

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Everyone talks about the ability of NZ to control the mainsail, but in this last video it looks very ugly. There is noway they can be getting a nice smooth flow over that mainsail with such a large bulge at the bottom of the sail.  It looks so forced, and more like an lump, then any sort of advanced sail shape.

1126804892_ScreenShot2021-01-07at10_55_05PM.thumb.jpg.c94cd160c443801ae787a3c58278f357.jpg

1237277639_ScreenShot2021-01-07at10_55_17PM.thumb.jpg.aca38f04efba8ff056a2cd7a46c6bf8a.jpg

2040406056_ScreenShot2021-01-07at10_55_38PM.thumb.jpg.26820d674162b54bd53262070c4c133e.jpg

1221049592_ScreenShot2021-01-07at10_56_15PM.thumb.jpg.d8aa17ce95c8ceb9a451cf2b0aa0fc18.jpg

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3 hours ago, D_Dog said:

Just noticed the water spray coming off the skeg just after a maneuver in this latest vid by Justin - Good visual demonstration of just how much air is trying to go laterally under the boat. 

TR Skeg Spray.jpg

Awesome, perfect display of why closing the gap is so important. That's a lot of wasted energy escaping there.

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35 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Everyone talks about the ability of NZ to control the mainsail, but in this last video it looks very ugly. There is noway they can be getting a nice smooth flow over that mainsail with such a large bulge at the bottom of the sail.  It looks so forced, and more like an lump, then any sort of advanced sail shape.

1126804892_ScreenShot2021-01-07at10_55_05PM.thumb.jpg.c94cd160c443801ae787a3c58278f357.jpg

1237277639_ScreenShot2021-01-07at10_55_17PM.thumb.jpg.aca38f04efba8ff056a2cd7a46c6bf8a.jpg

2040406056_ScreenShot2021-01-07at10_55_38PM.thumb.jpg.26820d674162b54bd53262070c4c133e.jpg

1221049592_ScreenShot2021-01-07at10_56_15PM.thumb.jpg.d8aa17ce95c8ceb9a451cf2b0aa0fc18.jpg

I'll take that any day if I can get the remaining 99.8% of the mainsails to be looking just fine...

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2 hours ago, WindySurfer said:

Not more than can be overcome with more foil flap.  Also it is lift down low so it means they can trim more main and still have the moments balance to boot.  If you raise up and loose the endplate you probably have to twist off the top of the main at the same time.

They already have a pretty good end-plate at the sail/hull intersection. Still unsure how much benefit is gained from "end-plate #2" at hull/water.

Plus it appears that NZ are mosttly flying with around 0.5m between bustle and water at TWS ~15 knots.

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3 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

They already have a pretty good end-plate at the sail/hull intersection. Still unsure how much benefit is gained from "end-plate #2" at hull/water.

Plus it appears that NZ are mosttly flying with around 0.5m between bustle and water at TWS ~15 knots.

As soon as you close the gap between sails and the hull, they become a single object. The air will try to find the next gap to go across. If the hull itself perfectly end-plated the sail, why would you see that spray off the keel blown horizontally across.

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4 hours ago, D_Dog said:

Just noticed the water spray coming off the skeg just after a maneuver in this latest vid by Justin - Good visual demonstration of just how much air is trying to go laterally under the boat. 

TR Skeg Spray.jpg

That's in what,  8 knots of breeze?  That's an awesome screen grab. Thanks 

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13 minutes ago, erdb said:

As soon as you close the gap between sails and the hull, they become a single object. The air will try to find the next gap to go across. If the hull itself perfectly end-plated the sail, why would you see that spray off the keel blown horizontally across.

I don't follow. If the sail has already been effectively end-plated by the hull deck, is there any NET benefit to end-plating the hull to water?

If so, why does NZ regularly fly at 0.5m instead of trying to get even closer to water surface?

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Just now, MaxHugen said:

I don't follow. If the sail has already been effectively end-plated by the hull deck, is there any NET benefit to end-plating the hull to water?

If so, why does NZ regularly fly at 0.5m instead of trying to get even closer to water surface?

The hull does not completely endplate the sails, that's the point. It sure helps, but it's not perfect, because air can still escape under the hull. Like I said before, end-plating is not an ON / OFF effect. Even if it's not complete, the smaller the gap the better. Sealing the sails to the hull is better than not sealing them. 0.5m gap under the hull is better than 1 m, and 0.3m is better than 0.5m. However, if you start hitting the waves too often, that increases drag as well, so there will be an optimal ride height predicted by their models based on wind speed, wave height and TWA, and the crew will try its best to keep the boat there. 

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12 hours ago, Mozzy Sails said:

However this interp seems to come about because ENTZ are connecting their two flaps with a 'connector piece'. 

But aren't all the teams using this to some extent? The suh Ben gull wings most of all, and the other two challs as well.

Perhaps the idea is to validate etnz's flap fairing because it is attached to the wing and the others not?

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4 hours ago, erdb said:

The hull does not completely endplate the sails, that's the point. It sure helps, but it's not perfect, because air can still escape under the hull. Like I said before, end-plating is not an ON / OFF effect. Even if it's not complete, the smaller the gap the better. Sealing the sails to the hull is better than not sealing them. 0.5m gap under the hull is better than 1 m, and 0.3m is better than 0.5m. However, if you start hitting the waves too often, that increases drag as well, so there will be an optimal ride height predicted by their models based on wind speed, wave height and TWA, and the crew will try its best to keep the boat there. 

Sorry to bring up the retired AC boats..but I'm thinking there's no way to end plate the hull on a cat? 

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31 minutes ago, barfy said:

Sorry to bring up the retired AC boats..but I'm thinking there's no way to end plate the hull on a cat? 

its what the pod thing under the tramp was there to help with on the AC and F50, the wings could be sealed down with a more precise gap though than a soft sail 

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1 hour ago, barfy said:

But aren't all the teams using this to some extent? The suh Ben gull wings most of all, and the other two challs as well.

Perhaps the idea is to validate etnz's flap fairing because it is attached to the wing and the others not?

Yes, I think you've hit the nail on the head. The issue seems to how the connector piece functions. Is it part of the foil adjustment system, the foil flap, or the wing. 

I could imagine an advantage to having a single foil flap and a single actuator and thereby cutting down in the amount of machinery to be housed. Which would be a simpler system, but also remove some of the design challenges of housing separate soil adjuster systems either side of the symmetry line.

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

its what the pod thing under the tramp was there to help with on the AC and F50, the wings could be sealed down with a more precise gap though than a soft sail 

That was to stop the thing folding in half longitudinally...

 

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12 hours ago, barfy said:

Sorry to bring up the retired AC boats..but I'm thinking there's no way to end plate the hull on a cat? 

Actually what if you maintained windward heel and a solid deck / tramp? Shouldn't you be able to effectively endplate the rig if you had the right shaped hulls or at the very least force the air up over the windward hull and onto the rig instead of under the boat.

I wonder how closely they need to be aligned given the gunwales of an AC75 are pretty far from the bottom of rig already.

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23 hours ago, D_Dog said:

Just noticed the water spray coming off the skeg just after a maneuver in this latest vid by Justin - Good visual demonstration of just how much air is trying to go laterally under the boat. 

TR Skeg Spray.jpg

Well yes .. but is that a vortex from the end-plated sails or simply angle of attack of hull to wind?

The hull is effectively going "sideways through the air" at around 11 deg which is their apparent wind angle, and with loss of speed just after a transition, that sideways angle will be greater  .. not sure if this screen grab shows the spray going sideways to the hull at much more than 11 deg? hard to tell unless you were looking down on it.

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19 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Everyone talks about the ability of NZ to control the mainsail, but in this last video it looks very ugly. There is noway they can be getting a nice smooth flow over that mainsail with such a large bulge at the bottom of the sail.  It looks so forced, and more like an lump, then any sort of advanced sail shape.

1126804892_ScreenShot2021-01-07at10_55_05PM.thumb.jpg.c94cd160c443801ae787a3c58278f357.jpg

1237277639_ScreenShot2021-01-07at10_55_17PM.thumb.jpg.aca38f04efba8ff056a2cd7a46c6bf8a.jpg

2040406056_ScreenShot2021-01-07at10_55_38PM.thumb.jpg.26820d674162b54bd53262070c4c133e.jpg

1221049592_ScreenShot2021-01-07at10_56_15PM.thumb.jpg.d8aa17ce95c8ceb9a451cf2b0aa0fc18.jpg

Nothing like a still frame from a whole video to prove a point :lol:

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22 minutes ago, Storm-Petrel said:

Well yes .. but is that a vortex from the end-plated sails or simply angle of attack of hull to wind?

The hull is effectively going "sideways through the air" at around 11 deg which is their apparent wind angle, and with loss of speed just after a transition, that sideways angle will be greater  .. not sure if this screen grab shows the spray going sideways to the hull at much more than 11 deg? hard to tell unless you were looking down on it.

Considering that NZ have effectively "end-plated the end-plating" with the crew pods, I suspect it's pretty much nought to do with sail end-plating..

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3 minutes ago, weta27 said:

A discard from ACWS Practice Race Day 1.

Te Rehutai is in the water again this arvo, so am about to pop down and see what she's up to.

I have missed your awesome "spy" shots. :ph34r:

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20 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Everyone talks about the ability of NZ to control the mainsail, but in this last video it looks very ugly. There is noway they can be getting a nice smooth flow over that mainsail with such a large bulge at the bottom of the sail.  It looks so forced, and more like an lump, then any sort of advanced sail shape.

 

1237277639_ScreenShot2021-01-07at10_55_17PM.thumb.jpg.aca38f04efba8ff056a2cd7a46c6bf8a.jpg

 

They are sandbagging :D

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20 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Everyone talks about the ability of NZ to control the mainsail, but in this last video it looks very ugly. There is noway they can be getting a nice smooth flow over that mainsail with such a large bulge at the bottom of the sail.  It looks so forced, and more like an lump, then any sort of advanced sail shape.

1126804892_ScreenShot2021-01-07at10_55_05PM.thumb.jpg.c94cd160c443801ae787a3c58278f357.jpg

1237277639_ScreenShot2021-01-07at10_55_17PM.thumb.jpg.aca38f04efba8ff056a2cd7a46c6bf8a.jpg

2040406056_ScreenShot2021-01-07at10_55_38PM.thumb.jpg.26820d674162b54bd53262070c4c133e.jpg

1221049592_ScreenShot2021-01-07at10_56_15PM.thumb.jpg.d8aa17ce95c8ceb9a451cf2b0aa0fc18.jpg

Agreed. I’d pointed out the line on the windward side but didn’t notice it on the leeward side too. It’s not a luff curve issue. 

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