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1 hour ago, Rushman said:

Is that a curvey downwards foil on starboard now?

Yep, sure looks like it's a match to the one we saw on port!

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It's pissing down outside and yes, we are back to Level 3. To all those moaning and bitching about it and calling the PM childish names, get a grip, we are the luckiest people in the world right

They towed out around 11am and the breeze was light and puffy to start with. Foiled down the Channel and headed out to the Bays. The breeze started to build around midday and they got some long runs i

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Little blue penguin guts should always be scrubbed off before returning to port. 

Just imagine how much sea life these boats chop up each time they go out. I'm surprised there's not a bunch of hairy, vegan, lesbian, man hating bitches lined up and bra-less protesting these things. 

 

Scaredy-Kat-Pussy-Kat.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Salty Seacock said:

Little blue penguin guts should always be scrubbed off before returning to port. 

Just imagine how much sea life these boats chop up each time they go out. I'm surprised there's not a bunch of hairy, vegan, lesbian, man hating bitches lined up and bra-less protesting these things. 

 

Scaredy-Kat-Pussy-Kat.jpg

Apparently San Fran was a dolphin slaying ground with the 72s 

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35 minutes ago, Salty Seacock said:

This was taken yesterday. Then is a little curve in 'em. 

Screenshot_20210207-205921_Gallery.jpg

So I guess they are wearing their party shoes now :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

If that’s the case that all six used up

Yes, I think that's it - so NZ has committed to the "BFB slightly curved anhedral" design?

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52 minutes ago, Salty Seacock said:

Little blue penguin guts should always be scrubbed off before returning to port. 

Just imagine how much sea life these boats chop up each time they go out. I'm surprised there's not a bunch of hairy, vegan, lesbian, man hating bitches lined up and bra-less protesting these things. 

 

Scaredy-Kat-Pussy-Kat.jpg

They'd love the T-shirt my Kiwi brother-in-law gave me... pic of a cow having a crap, with the slogan:

"My food shits on your food."

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45 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Yes, I think that's it - so NZ has committed to the "BFB slightly curved anhedral" design?

They only have one matching set of foils so I guess so? 

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40 minutes ago, nav said:

Why would you quote and encourage this intolerant insecure troll?

Hey Man, you need to lighten up a little. I know you're a has been and all that but, coming out and claiming you're as clean as a nuns morning music is total bullshit. Those that know you also know you have a sordid past. So, stop with the pretense that you're clean when you're not. 

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5 hours ago, Salty Seacock said:

This was taken yesterday. Then is a little curve in 'em. 

Screenshot_20210207-205921_Gallery.jpg

Maybe this has been discussed already but is ETNZ's the only boat with a foil arm fairing extension just above the join to the wings?

What is the purpose of this?

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56 minutes ago, marlowe said:

Maybe this has been discussed already but is ETNZ's the only boat with a foil arm fairing extension just above the join to the wings?

What is the purpose of this?

Mozzy's theory was that they moved some of the weight there to minimise the thickness of foils and bulb.

Sounds plausible to me

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2 hours ago, marlowe said:

Maybe this has been discussed already but is ETNZ's the only boat with a foil arm fairing extension just above the join to the wings?

What is the purpose of this?

Mozzy's was speculating that in order to get the low wetted surface area and high aspect ratio that ETNZ favor, they had to add mass somewhere else to meet the minimum mass required. If you haven't already watched Mozzy on youtube, it is really worth your time if you want to get into the weeds. 

Also perhaps low speed lateral resistance? 

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^ Impossible to add weight there AFAIK.

The Spat is in the attached foil arm fairing, not in the foil itself. 

The 'foil' extends up 1300mm from the bottom of the 'box'. Where it meets the supplied foil arm stock - with the team designed leading edge and fairing attached.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, nav said:

^ Impossible AFAIK.

The Spat is in the attached foil arm fairing, not in the foil itself.

The 'foil' extends up 1300mm from the bottom of the 'box'. Where it meets the supplied foil arm stock - with the team designed leading edge and fairing attached.

 

 

 

There's a hole in the rules where you can add mass outside of the box according to Mozzy

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1 hour ago, enigmatically2 said:

Mozzy's theory was that they moved some of the weight there to minimise the thickness of foils and bulb.

If authorized the question is to know if the gain of drag is compensated by the loss of RM. I would say that drag is queen. :)

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On 2/6/2021 at 5:42 AM, jaysper said:

Meh, bit too busy for my tastes.

Can’t disagree that it’s busy but at the same time, it looks funky and reminds me of camouflage.. 

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35 minutes ago, rustylaru said:

There's a hole in the rules where you can add mass outside of the box according to Mozzy

Where does he cover this? 

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1 hour ago, rustylaru said:

Mozzy's was speculating that in order to get the low wetted surface area and high aspect ratio that ETNZ favor, they had to add mass somewhere else to meet the minimum mass required. If you haven't already watched Mozzy on youtube, it is really worth your time if you want to get into the weeds. 

Also perhaps low speed lateral resistance? 

Or perhaps something as simple as reducing the amount of spray the crew cop in their faces on the leeward side.

Can't imagine NZ moving mass from the most outboard position - the bulb - to that location up the foil arm. Sure would not do their RM any favours.

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56 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

If authorized the question is to know if the gain of drag is compensated by the loss of RM. I would say that drag is queen. :)

You say drag is queen, I say RM is King.  :D

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Much has been made by the TV commentators of the poor starts made by ETNZ recently. Moreover, they seemed to suggest a certain rustiness due to lack of practice. Any thoughts?

I recall in Bermuda much was made of Burling’s inexperience of match racing but he put that to bed in the Final. 

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2 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

Or perhaps something as simple as reducing the amount of spray the crew cop in their faces on the leeward side.

Can't imagine NZ moving mass from the most outboard position - the bulb - to that location up the foil arm. Sure would not do their RM any favours.

I don't buy that the weighted spat theory either.  I reckon ETNZ will have hidden a heap of weight in their blended bulb/foil/stock - bit of depleted uranium or tungsten perhaps.  

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2 minutes ago, Apterix said:

I don't buy that the weighted spat theory either.  I reckon ETNZ will have hidden a heap of weight in their blended bulb/foil/stock - bit of depleted uranium or tungsten perhaps.  

The Rules don't permit any material denser than 11,400kg/m3 - lead.   But I don't think they had any prob storing enough Pb in the BFB.

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2 minutes ago, Apterix said:

Sorry if this has been posted already - but worth a watch if you haven't seen it yet.  

 

posted and discussed in 

 

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2 hours ago, Paddywackery said:

Much has been made by the TV commentators of the poor starts made by ETNZ recently. Moreover, they seemed to suggest a certain rustiness due to lack of practice. Any thoughts?

I recall in Bermuda much was made of Burling’s inexperience of match racing but he put that to bed in the Final. 

I'm pretty sure Pete was just foxing in Bermuda.

If he wasn't he sure got better fast once it actually mattered! He basically owned Jimmy in the box.

The alternative was he had been told not to break the boat until it really mattered (which he did anyway).

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4 minutes ago, Boybland said:

I'm pretty sure Pete was just foxing in Bermuda.

If he wasn't he sure got better fast once it actually mattered! He basically owned Jimmy in the box.

If you discount the own-error micro-second OCS starts, OR was about even with ETNZ in winning the AC35 starts. I’m sure PB is brilliant at starting.. but so are the other helms. 

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Interesting to go back and rewatch the world series day 1 race 4 footage. At time entz were clearly having technical issues....other moments they looked pretty even with AM....other times they took loads out of them.....which could have been entz going the right way......hard to know what to conclude. ....but seems to suggest that we could have a sailing race. 

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There's been few prestart penalties, most seemed for early entry than anything and no OCS I remember. Couple of hooks, and a couple of pin end lockouts due to wind shifts. More important is time on distance and starting on time.  A 5 minute sequence would be more entertaining. 

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Upwind starts are a different ball game to a reaching drag race.

I am sure ETNZ have the legs to win the cup. But I am not so certain they will be race-ready to put the boat where they need it to be on day 1

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1 hour ago, Boybland said:

I'm pretty sure Pete was just foxing in Bermuda.

If he wasn't he sure got better fast once it actually mattered! He basically owned Jimmy in the box.

The alternative was he had been told not to break the boat until it really mattered (which he did anyway).

As it happens, he did a great job against Oracle and never seemed flustered. 
 

In this regatta, rust notwithstanding, I wondered if ETNZ believing they had better boat speed avoided close quarter combat. 

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36 minutes ago, uflux said:

Upwind starts are a different ball game to a reaching drag race.

I am sure ETNZ have the legs to win the cup. But I am not so certain they will be race-ready to put the boat where they need it to be on day 1

Good point and I can only assume that they’ve planned for it. Then again, hard to plan for a lack of match fitness. 

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3 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Didn't the Kiwi AC50 chase the chase boat around for some pre start manoeuvres practice I haven't see any footage of Te Rehutai doing it.

Yeah they referred to that in an interview. It wouldn't be hard to imagine a scenario where the chase boat could be computer aided to act like an AC boat (yacht). In fact that wouldn't take much at all. 

Ray Davies wouldn't be a bad tuneup partner :)

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6 hours ago, nav said:

Where does he cover this? 

I'll find  link to my video, but its essentially the mass rule which includes foil arm fairings and 14.3 which says foil arm fairings must be outside of the foil box. 

A few interesting points here...

Why would teams not want all the weight out at the foil bulb. Well there is a slight RM gain from having weight out there, because the boats sail in an asymmetric style, where the windward raised arm foil is further from centerline than the leeward foil. 

The flip side is the more mass you put down in the foils, the more volume and the more hydro drag. So there is a RM v Drag tradeoff. 

Lastly, there is a limit to how far up the arm you can put your mass. This is to make sure boats self right. But this rule is define in how far the the mass is away from FCS axis at max down, and the foils as not symmetrical in this axis... so...

So, there is only so much mass you can remove from the foils before you hit this foil CoM rule. 

T foil like ETNZ have allows you to have mass out at max distance from centre line, but less mass under water becuase the way the foil mass CoG rule is described. Win win for ETNZ. 

However, I do think ETNZ do have more than mass in their foil arm fairings, as they have maintenance windows in to them. This suggests the hydraulics HCC is housed there. 

AM also have a foil arm fairing. But also a large bulb which house foil actuacton. So more than one way to skin this cat. 

Screenshot_20210207-224424_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20210207-224243_Chrome.jpg

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15 hours ago, Salty Seacock said:

Little blue penguin guts should always be scrubbed off before returning to port. 

Just imagine how much sea life these boats chop up each time they go out. I'm surprised there's not a bunch of hairy, vegan, lesbian, man hating bitches lined up and bra-less protesting these things. 

 

Scaredy-Kat-Pussy-Kat.jpg

Their parents must be so proud.

Betcha neither of them have ever worked.

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29 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

Good point and I can only assume that they’ve planned for it. Then again, hard to plan for a lack of match fitness. 

From what we've seen so far, speed and upwind VMG win these races. Downwind, the boats show very similar performance. So, if the start box dances mean a 100 metre headstart for the slower upwind boat the game is over anyway as the catchup is not so hard for a faster boat.

The start box only matters for the possibility of picking up a penality and arguably, the only real match racing behaviour we really see. The rest is a drag race and playing the shifts with a bit of tack and gybe tactics thrown in for good measure. 

Yes, this class is amazing technology and a spectacle to watch but is it actually sailing and a sailboat race that satisfies the match racing spirit and the intention of The Americas Cup idea and more importantly, what would sailors of The Cup 50 years ago make of this?

As for the Defenders race preparation and match fitness, time will tell but, from lessons and past behaviour, I wouldn't be betting against them right now. 

Deception and constant development is the hidden strap line of Emirates Team New Zealand. 

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1 hour ago, Paddywackery said:

As it happens, he did a great job against Oracle and never seemed flustered. 
 

In this regatta, rust notwithstanding, I wondered if ETNZ believing they had better boat speed avoided close quarter combat. 

To assume that you need not engage your competition in the starts would be a fucking dumb idea and I'm fairly confident Etnz aren't dumb.

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Must have been watching different races to me though salty. And seen different reactions. Because most people seem to be of the view that GB won the RRs through better tactics than boat speed.

And I saw some big variations in downwind vmg. 

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5 minutes ago, jaysper said:

To assume that you need not engage your competition in the starts would be a fucking dumb idea and I'm fairly confident Etnz aren't dumb.

I agree, ETNZ are certainly not dumb, but they weren’t good at the starts and didn’t seem concerned. 

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26 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Their parents must be so proud.

Betcha neither of them have ever worked.

Typical mysogynistic stupid generalisation fromn someone who preys on online Vietnamese mail-order brides. Anyone that confident to go public with their convictions are highly likely to be well-educated and qualified.

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4 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

I agree, ETNZ are certainly not dumb, but they weren’t good at the starts and didn’t seem concerned. 

In Bermuda they were shit until they were suddenly dominant, which by "coincidence" happened to be race 1 of the match.

I'm not suggesting that they will definitely be dominant again. Simply that the starts will represent a significant part of their programme.

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7 minutes ago, jaysper said:

In Bermuda they were shit until they were suddenly dominant, which by "coincidence" happened to be race 1 of the match.

I'm not suggesting that they will definitely be dominant again. Simply that the starts will represent a significant part of their programme.

I think in practicality you really only get one or two shots at a sequence of tactics in the starting box before the opponent debriefs, reviews and understands how to respond and get the upper hand, so I wonder if ETNZ have determined (since Bermuda, perhaps SF?) that it's better to keep those routes and positions off the table and not squander them for races where it doesn't really matter.

It felt like in Bermuda they did just enough in starting sequences to keep them in range so their boat speed could overcome Artemis, and then similarly kept starting tricks up their sleeves until they either would really need them, or their foot was on OTUSA's throat - turned out it was the latter...

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4 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

The Rules don't permit any material denser than 11,400kg/m3 - lead.   But I don't think they had any prob storing enough Pb in the BFB.

They contracted certain ex-members of OTUSA to consult on lead placement.

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3 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

I think in practicality you really only get one or two shots at a sequence of tactics in the starting box before the opponent debriefs, reviews and understands how to respond and get the upper hand, so I wonder if ETNZ have determined (since Bermuda, perhaps SF?) that it's better to keep those routes and positions off the table and not squander them for races where it doesn't really matter.

It felt like in Bermuda they did just enough in starting sequences to keep them in range so their boat speed could overcome Artemis, and then similarly kept starting tricks up their sleeves until they either would really need them, or their foot was on OTUSA's throat - turned out it was the latter...

That’s my sense and I believe they’re using the same playbook. There was a casual aspect to the start sequences that to my mind didn’t add up. 

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20 hours ago, Zeusproject said:

Walk the plank ! 

F1FE9D42-B49C-4706-9BA6-704F21D393D1.jpeg

I’ll save you going to the trouble of copying my images from Facebook, by dropping these here for my first post:

BAA4B111-00BD-4A2F-B601-41BD4EDE736A.thumb.jpeg.67e7dee31b785fd3ca2d6e49996dad07.jpeg

71F7CE90-8775-4278-AA88-11DDA68D585A.thumb.jpeg.c7d3f26da29ff6f4c41149a5c2365836.jpeg

643435B9-445C-42CD-B841-83373E912C29.thumb.jpeg.054759d69ea84b430d2cf7dee24e0acb.jpeg

Taken from the ETNZ sponsor/chase boat on Friday afternoon. No real cameras allowed, but the iPhone did ok.

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7 minutes ago, Enzedel92 said:

Caption this:

 

231946FA-3EBA-4288-BA43-4CCEEA055D89.jpeg

"Fuck MBIE and the unicorn you sent them in on..."

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27 minutes ago, TeamOf5Million said:

I’ll save you going to the trouble of copying my images from Facebook, by dropping these here for my first post:

BAA4B111-00BD-4A2F-B601-41BD4EDE736A.thumb.jpeg.67e7dee31b785fd3ca2d6e49996dad07.jpeg

71F7CE90-8775-4278-AA88-11DDA68D585A.thumb.jpeg.c7d3f26da29ff6f4c41149a5c2365836.jpeg

643435B9-445C-42CD-B841-83373E912C29.thumb.jpeg.054759d69ea84b430d2cf7dee24e0acb.jpeg

Taken from the ETNZ sponsor/chase boat on Friday afternoon. No real cameras allowed, but the iPhone did ok.

Went passed Ineos and etnz friday after noon practicing in the back paddock. Was their last runs before heading up the harbour. Etnz had a hairy moment after a tack just off motuihe(reared up)..but seemed to correct it pretty quickly. Must say Ineos looked impressive.

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1 hour ago, Enzedel92 said:

Caption this:

 

231946FA-3EBA-4288-BA43-4CCEEA055D89.jpeg

"Look, let's just forget about the chase boats for a moment, the yachts run on electricity and wind, along with a bit of human grunt,  they are very green" 

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1 hour ago, Indio said:

1219169281_ThatBig.thumb.jpg.e99739e2235adb312f56567f8ab6d274.jpg

One of my favorite photos I'd love to be a fly on the wall. Obviously has to be something about how the Americas Cup gives back to the economy and how to minimize the COVID restrictions? She's holding her bag tight and looks like she's just zipped it up or is about to unzip it, she could be about to walk off? Grant is a very direct person and she has given him a very stern look. She has to be a fan surely.! :D  Was she at the launch?

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1 hour ago, Enzedel92 said:

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231946FA-3EBA-4288-BA43-4CCEEA055D89.jpeg

"Look, Clarke was warned about scuba diving in the back paddock. He didn't listen. Are we invited to the funeral?"

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20 hours ago, Salty Seacock said:

Little blue penguin guts should always be scrubbed off before returning to port. 

Just imagine how much sea life these boats chop up each time they go out. I'm surprised there's not a bunch of hairy, vegan, lesbian, man hating bitches lined up and bra-less protesting these things. 

 

Scaredy-Kat-Pussy-Kat.jpg

WTF is wrong w/ bra-less?

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2 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

More

 

146468413_10157848464488456_1606010237641523743_n.jpg

146640626_10157848464433456_2293582995884362142_n.jpg

148427014_10157848464353456_6207850880658021672_n.jpg

Weird... mostly because they are not symmetrical so won't measure...

some sort of sensor? but on both sets?

intrigue at ETNZ palace?

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6 hours ago, Flags said:

Yeah they referred to that in an interview. It wouldn't be hard to imagine a scenario where the chase boat could be computer aided to act like an AC boat (yacht). In fact that wouldn't take much at all. 

Ray Davies wouldn't be a bad tuneup partner :)

They have referred to exactly that. 
 

There’s been footage recently with them doing prestart practice with a chase boat. 

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35 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

They have referred to exactly that. 
 

There’s been footage recently with them doing prestart practice with a chase boat. 

Got any links EY I would be interested in viewing.

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6 hours ago, rh3000 said:

I think in practicality you really only get one or two shots at a sequence of tactics in the starting box before the opponent debriefs, reviews and understands how to respond and get the upper hand, so I wonder if ETNZ have determined (since Bermuda, perhaps SF?) that it's better to keep those routes and positions off the table and not squander them for races where it doesn't really matter.

It felt like in Bermuda they did just enough in starting sequences to keep them in range so their boat speed could overcome Artemis, and then similarly kept starting tricks up their sleeves until they either would really need them, or their foot was on OTUSA's throat - turned out it was the latter...

I would go so far as to suggest they purposefully put themselves at a disadvantage against less fancied opponents in order to have the opportunity to chase them down.

Even Chris Draper commented that they were purposefully allowing themselves to be hooked.

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1 hour ago, rh3000 said:

Weird... mostly because they are not symmetrical so won't measure...

some sort of sensor? but on both sets?

intrigue at ETNZ palace?

My guess is underwater cameras for R&D

 

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44 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Got any links EY I would be interested in viewing.

I think the ETNZ reference may have been here: https://www.spreaker.com/user/13269964/episode-24-glenn-ashby

Glenn talks about the uncanny ability for the chase boats to sail with very high VMG at times, to get themselves out of trouble.

The start training is here, after ~3:00ish. 
 

 

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Marine & Hydrofoil Vessels

America’s Cup Sailboat Racing

Senix ToughSonic sensors show their mettle in the rough and tumble environment of America’s Cup racing. Oracle-BMW racing first used our sensors for their 2013 cup win. As Oracle Team USA Data Analyst and Instrumentation Engineer, Jose Luis Vela commented, “We drive the boat based on sensor data. The foiling requires real-time information that is fast and completely accurate. We selected Senix ultrasonic sensors after extensive testing in a variety of high-speed marine conditions.” Oher teams have since adopted Senix sensors, including the 2017 Bermuda winner, Emirates New Zealand

 

https://senix.com/applications/hydrofoil-and-nautical/

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So the blended bulbs look to be the final foils for TR. Some describe them as anhedral, but I'm not sure that slight droop really fits the description of anhedral. I wouldn't be surprised that under load, those wings flatten out, and those sensors Barny's talking about might measure that movement? Also, similar to what occurred in Bermuda, when the rudder elevators flexed to gain extra RM. These wings might achieve the same, in that they can take more power from the main, to push that flex in the wings, and thus gain extra power and RM.

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22 hours ago, uflux said:

So I guess they are wearing their party shoes now :rolleyes:

The bulbs serve three purposes.

1. Equalizes water flow over the foil/ wing interface thus reducing lamina separation/ adjacent multiple surface flow interference  

2. It houses the electric motor that operates the wing tabs.

3. Strengthens the foil / wing connection.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Enzedel92 said:

Caption this:

 

231946FA-3EBA-4288-BA43-4CCEEA055D89.jpeg

So, now you've banged out a rug-rat, Clarke will be able to whack four fingers in your stretched out cunny, right?

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1 minute ago, Salty Seacock said:

So, now you've banged out a rug-rat, Clarke will be able to whack four fingers in your stretched out cunny, right?

Salty. You never fail in the race to be the grubbiest

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