Jump to content

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 18.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

It's pissing down outside and yes, we are back to Level 3. To all those moaning and bitching about it and calling the PM childish names, get a grip, we are the luckiest people in the world right

Yes, quite light but I didn't see all the afternoon's sailing, can only comment on later in the day, when Britannia 2 was running a #1 jib and foiling around no problem. They look quite quick at times

Posted Images

2 hours ago, jaysper said:

Nah, it's cup-itis. Often presents with other symptoms such as intolerable over confidence and disregard for silly things such as newtonian physics.

Hopefully you don't start showing signs of "Archimedean mode" and "2nd derivatives" ...  dreadful stuff!  :D

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Zeusproject said:

4DF9BC43-9ECC-47A7-B903-537F7B2E9311.jpeg.cce4da64a4e571d073d3683c9ae67377.jpeg

Thanks for your efforts - that's a good pic - but I would need a pic like this (but better definition):

image.png.4a7f61d7611e30fb88255b87abadb0c2.png

to derive a diagram like this:

image.png.06b84b206fddf86d073694188d7ee3bd.png

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Hopefully you don't start showing signs of "Archimedean mode" and "2nd derivatives" ...  dreadful stuff!  :D

Don’t knock the second derivative-its really good at showing you what’s really going on under all the noise!

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Zeusproject said:

 

824EE5D9-1335-4907-A136-8F0FD49FF113.jpeg

9FFF77A9-FB1A-4823-A72B-73F02C3A03F1.jpeg

A60B79E8-23B8-4406-893A-CED3A62DB243.jpeg

 

Holy hell those look small!

Question, on the LR thread there was a post regarding how LR is able to achieve their high mode through variations of the foil flaps and main. If LR can point higher 1-2° higher, how much faster would ETNZ need to be? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Jandals said:

 

Holy hell those look small!

Question, on the LR thread there was a post regarding how LR is able to achieve their high mode through variations of the foil flaps and main. If LR can point higher 1-2° higher, how much faster would ETNZ need to be? 

Let's say LR has a boat speed of 30 knots, at a TWA of 45°.  Their VMG is therefore 21.21 kn.

If NZ were sailing at 46°, and were also achieving a VMG of 21.21 kn, their boat speed would be 30.54 kn.

Of course, this does not take into account the teams' ability to spot and take advantage of gusts, wind shifts etc.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

Let's say LR has a boat speed of 30 knots, at a TWA of 45°.  Their VMG is therefore 21.21 kn.

If NZ were sailing at 46°, and were also achieving a VMG of 21.21 kn, their boat speed would be 30.54 kn.

Of course, this does not take into account the teams' ability to spot and take advantage of gusts, wind shifts etc.

Very good. Thanks! 

Presumably ETNZ would be aware of LRs ability to point high and if they can't match their height would be comfortable with their boat speed to lead or get around them. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Jandals said:

 

Holy hell those look small!

Question, on the LR thread there was a post regarding how LR is able to achieve their high mode through variations of the foil flaps and main. If LR can point higher 1-2° higher, how much faster would ETNZ need to be? 

Consider also that we're talking match race here. Even if you make up for the lower TWA you'll need quite a lot of room to tack in front of the other boat. 
I for one think that having the same VMG of a boat that can point higher will never be enough in a match race.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Thewas said:

Consider also that we're talking match race here. Even if you make up for the lower TWA you'll need quite a lot of room to tack in front of the other boat. 
I for one think that having the same VMG of a boat that can point higher will never be enough in a match race.

The one that can’t point as high covers much more distance and hits the boundaries sooner and should have to do more tacks.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

The one that can’t point as high covers much more distance and hits the boundaries sooner and should have to do more tacks.

In any situation where both boats are foiling, I expect ETNZ to point higher by virtue of lower drag foils.

The question for me then becomes can ETNZ foil at as low wind conditions as LR. Given they have an extra 3 sqm down low, I suspect the answer is yes.

ETNZ will be dominant across the wind range.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

The one that can’t point as high covers much more distance and hits the boundaries sooner and should have to do more tacks.

Not necessarily, depending on how they are laying to the next rounding mark...

In fact, sailing slightly higher could see you having to do an extra track to lay vs sailing slightly lower...

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Jandals said:

 

Holy hell those look small!

Question, on the LR thread there was a post regarding how LR is able to achieve their high mode through variations of the foil flaps and main. If LR can point higher 1-2° higher, how much faster would ETNZ need to be? 

In theory, AM should have had the best of both worlds.  They had smaller foils (similar to NZ) and anhedral foils to point higher (never got as good as LR).  AM lacked the control of the main and the right tuning.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It says a lot that ETNZ started their design path with the largest area foils in the fleet and ended up with the smallest foils. The LR foils look to be copies of ETNZ original B1 foil concepts.....ETNZ has been there and done that and moved on :rolleyes:

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Not necessarily, depending on how they are laying to the next rounding mark...

In fact, sailing slightly higher could see you having to do an extra track to lay vs sailing slightly lower...

Also if you can move across the track faster at the same vmg more options to break cover should exist. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

In theory, AM should have had the best of both worlds.  They had smaller foils (similar to NZ) and anhedral foils to point higher (never got as good as LR).  AM lacked the control of the main and the right tuning.

Sure thing, some serious vibration in the wheel when turning too, DB always seemed to be really fighting it

Link to post
Share on other sites

NZ's foils are ~ half flap, which I assume is how they are able to make small foils fly in bugger all wind - albeit it with lots of trim and a massive drag penalty. Once they're up to speed they can decrease the trim and fly more efficiently.  But, at what cost?  How much distance will they give up in the tacks and gybes?  Will they be able to point as high as LR?  

This to me is the awesome bit about having such an open design rule.  And, having two very different expressions of the rule racing against each other in the final.  We will, in the not too distant future, see what works and what doesn't.   

   

 

  

 

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rh3000 said:

Not necessarily, depending on how they are laying to the next rounding mark...

In fact, sailing slightly higher could see you having to do an extra track to lay vs sailing slightly lower...

I thought of saying "could" on the tacks, it all depends on the course.  I doubt there would be any time that the higher course would require more tacks (assuming no wind shifts). 

Just for grins, I plotted a 45 vs a 44 degree course on the current AC course:

1772277987_ScreenShot2021-02-28at3_18_59PM.thumb.png.72b95ba3ce6bc6c03141cae66f3e84db.png

 

edit: we were talking about upwind, I should not have added the downwind part to the plot.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Apterix said:

This to me is the awesome bit about having such an open design rule.  And, having two very different expressions of the rule racing against each other in the final.  We will, in the not too distant future, see what works and what doesn't

I agree..last cycle the foils were still pretty open, but the limiting cant angles stuck everyone close in one corner. I believe with almost unlimited cant the design box is much larger.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

I thought of saying "could" on the tacks, it all depends on the course.  I doubt there would be any time that the higher course would require more tacks (assuming no wind shifts). 

Just for grins, I plotted a 45 vs a 44 degree course on the current AC course:

image.png.7ad44f564aa07c16cb569908874c8441.png1772277987_ScreenShot2021-02-28at3_18_59PM.thumb.png.72b95ba3ce6bc6c03141cae66f3e84db.png

edit: we were talking about upwind, I should not have added the downwind part to the plot.

Looking at the latest JM video (#257 Emirates Team NZ | 8 Days To America's Cup Match | 26 Feb 2021 - YouTube), in light winds it seems like ETNZ comes out of the tacks and gybes in a pretty low VMG mode to keep on the foils.  They then take quite a while to build speed before trimming to a higher VMG mode (see huckery yellow lines added to The_Alchemists' elegant drawing).   If ETNZ can't make up for VMG losses in manoeuvres with superior VMG once up to speed and trimmed, tacks/gybes could be a weakness that LR is able to exploit in light air, and ETNZ may end up doing more tacks/gybes.  But, I figure the ETNZ designers have worked out that they will gain more than they lose across the predicted wind range.    

image.png

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Apterix said:

NZ's foils are ~ half flap, which I assume is how they are able to make small foils fly in bugger all wind - albeit it with lots of trim and a massive drag penalty. Once they're up to speed they can decrease the trim and fly more efficiently.  But, at what cost?  How much distance will they give up in the tacks and gybes?  Will they be able to point as high as LR?  

This to me is the awesome bit about having such an open design rule.  And, having two very different expressions of the rule racing against each other in the final.  We will, in the not too distant future, see what works and what doesn't.  

FYI, NZ's flaps are ~40% of foil chord.  

Previously did a force comparison between NZ's foil size vs GB, which is roughly the same as LR.  Despite requiring a bit more foil and flap angles, especially at lower boat speeds, NZ's foil had a higher lift/drag ratio from 20 knots to 60 knots.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

FYI, NZ's flaps are ~40% of foil chord.  

Previously did a force comparison between NZ's foil size vs GB, which is roughly the same as LR.  Despite requiring a bit more foil and flap angles, especially at lower boat speeds, NZ's foil had a higher lift/drag ratio from 20 knots to 60 knots.

Nice - thanks for that - you add a lot to this forum Max.  It's the low speed (<20 knots) stuff that worries me as ETNZ supporter.  It may just be pre cup jitters, but it looks like ETNZ are slow around the corners in light airs.  I hope the higher lift/drag ratio of NZ's foils make up for any low speed disadvantage.   

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/26/2021 at 4:11 PM, Forourselves said:

 

Wow, just before 5mins that is some very slow foiling. Keeping it up at such a slow speed is tricky, not seen another team do it.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/26/2021 at 8:26 PM, EYESAILOR said:

Unfortunately that is not the situation. The AC is governed by a deed of gift which in turn is governed by NY law. ETNZ may have a cast iron contract with the RNZYS but if Dalts tried to choose another YC, that would be in breach of the deed of gift.  In legal terms, the cup cannot be given to another club by either ETNZ or RNZYS.   It can only be removed by a valid challenge (or relinquished to prior club in specific circumstances...see deed) 

The cup resides at the club which won the cup.  The only loophole is that RNZYS could accept a challenge from Dalts club and then lose that challenge.  But the challenging club would have to meet the deed of gift requirements as Allinghi found out when they tried to create a bogus challenging club and got sued in NY court.

They could always do a bogus AC in 6-12 months for minimum $$$ and deliberately lose to their chosen benefactor club in exchange for an ETNZ payday. As long as the other deed criteria are met, it is probably cheaper than lawyers fees.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, weta27 said:

TR in the back paddock. Good day for “unheard of” speeds???

I guess too windy for LR...:mellow:

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Ncik said:

Wow, just before 5mins that is some very slow foiling. Keeping it up at such a slow speed is tricky, not seen another team do it.

Good for pre-starts presumably. Can use it to dodge Jimmy's hook.

They look to be seriously struggling for stability whilst they are doing it.

Presumably they have cranked up the main foil's angle of attack and are compensating like fuck with the rudder.

Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Apterix said:

Nice - thanks for that - you add a lot to this forum Max.  It's the low speed (<20 knots) stuff that worries me as ETNZ supporter.  It may just be pre cup jitters, but it looks like ETNZ are slow around the corners in light airs.  I hope the higher lift/drag ratio of NZ's foils make up for any low speed disadvantage.   

There's a lot of "intelligent guesswork" on this forum as a whole... I notice a few YT channels that "analyse" the AC appear to use info gained from the forum. :)

I think you're right about NZ's performance through the turns in light air, particularly the tacks. I'm guessing that they need to get speed up on their narrow foils to compensate for speed decrease during the turn, so they tend to bear away slightly for a couple of seconds before and after a tack. LR have a bit of an advantage here, and probably gain a few metres over NZ.

Countering this, NZ most likely have a slightly higher acceleration to get back to max speed for the conditions, and this should neutralise LR's tacking advantage. Then it's back to VMG, where NZ have an edge through those extra sail area down low plus the ability to squeeze out max power due to the camber they can induce, and their lower-drag foils.

I think NZ will be OK even in the lower wind range.  :rolleyes:

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Presumably they have cranked up the main foil's angle of attack and are compensating like fuck with the rudder.

You can tell... when they are sailing with little or no bow down pitch, it's to use more of the "Angle of Incidence" of the foils as AoA. (about +2° for NZ I think).

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, weta27 said:

DSC_6186.JPG

DSC_6190.JPG

DSC_6196.JPG

DSC_6200.JPG

DSC_6210.JPG

Not sure I've ever seen telltales that straight before... the final photo shows a sail plan that looks tight and clean :-) Up there with LRs now!

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, weta27 said:

DSC_6212.JPG

Thanks Weta... they sure are getting down and dirty...  centimetres from the drink, and foil tip breaching!  The foil cant must be at maximum.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Not sure I've ever seen telltales that straight before... the final photo shows a sail plan that looks tight and clean :-) Up there with LRs now!

New updated sails arrived for LR, said Bruni today. ;)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, weta27 said:

Clew "box" with nice neat cover and new signage - "The Heart Of Racing" and MND.

Looks like they are trying out the "extended" rudder stock:

image.png.f6b46507ca19410aad03a17f6e1f224f.png

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
  On 2/26/2021 at 11:26 PM, EYESAILOR said:

In legal terms, the cup cannot be given to another club by either ETNZ or RNZYS.   It can only be removed by a valid challenge (or relinquished to prior club in specific circumstances...see deed) 

IF RNZYS ceases to exist (i.e. "dissolved"), the Cup is transferred to another YC from NZ able and willing to defend it, which YC then proceeds to accept Challenges as per SOP. The Cup will only revert to the previous holder if another NZ YC doesn't step up within 3 m0onths of dissolution of the initial holder.

The only loophole is that RNZYS could accept a challenge from Dalts club and then lose that challenge.  ...

It'll have to be a "Dalts" YC representing another country for a start.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, strider470 said:

New updated sails arrived for LR, said Bruni today. ;)

So where are they??? Perfect sailing conditions 

Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, strider470 said:

You will see them in due time :)

Oh yes under 10knots only...my mistake :rolleyes:

Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, strider470 said:

You will see them in due time :)

They're probably in an MIQ hotel for the next 14 days;) .....be interesting to see how they're tested for Covid-19.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, weta27 said:

Clew "box" with nice neat cover and new signage - "The Heart Of Racing" and MND.

Sorry about picture quality, operator error.

Glad to see you out there getting essential exercise in the fresh air while we wait. 

Nice shots.

Message to etnz: don't break the boat!!!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

Starting to smell a bit like clickbait in a few of these YT channels now...

I agree Max. Grabbing stuff that's been on SA for weeks, then describing it as "leaked".

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, barfy said:

Message to etnz: don't break the boat!!!

Including exuberances, excessive throttle openings or pulling general hollywoods. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

There's a lot of "intelligent guesswork" on this forum as a whole... I notice a few YT channels that "analyse" the AC appear to use info gained from the forum. :)

I think you're right about NZ's performance through the turns in light air, particularly the tacks. I'm guessing that they need to get speed up on their narrow foils to compensate for speed decrease during the turn, so they tend to bear away slightly for a couple of seconds before and after a tack. LR have a bit of an advantage here, and probably gain a few metres over NZ.

Countering this, NZ most likely have a slightly higher acceleration to get back to max speed for the conditions, and this should neutralise LR's tacking advantage. Then it's back to VMG, where NZ have an edge through those extra sail area down low plus the ability to squeeze out max power due to the camber they can induce, and their lower-drag foils.

I think NZ will be OK even in the lower wind range.  :rolleyes:

LR would just get into a taking duel and kill them....

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ncik said:

They could always do a bogus AC in 6-12 months for minimum $$$ and deliberately lose to their chosen benefactor club in exchange for an ETNZ payday. As long as the other deed criteria are met, it is probably cheaper than lawyers fees.

This would definitely bring in the lawyers.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

This would definitely bring in the lawyers.  

True, but genuine question, which part of that plan would break the deed?

Valid Club?

Valid Boat?

Valid Sea?

Valid Challenger?

RNZYS don't have to host the challenger series. They don't have to have it in a new and expensive class. They don't have to put any serious effort ($$$) into a defence. They can just claim it is beyond their means to defend the Cup as per previous events (if they win again).

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Indio said:

In legal terms, the cup cannot be given to another club by either ETNZ or RNZYS.   It can only be removed by a valid challenge (or relinquished to prior club in specific circumstances...see deed) 

IF RNZYS ceases to exist (i.e. "dissolved"), the Cup is transferred to another YC from NZ able and willing to defend it, which YC then proceeds to accept Challenges as per SOP. The Cup will only revert to the previous holder if another NZ YC doesn't step up within 3 m0onths of dissolution of the initial holder.

The only loophole is that RNZYS could accept a challenge from Dalts club and then lose that challenge.  ...

It'll have to be a "Dalts" YC representing another country for a start.

 

You know this would never fly....  The lawyer would be all over this...

If ETNZ wants to try this kind of crap then they are a dead team sailing...

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

You know this would never fly....  The lawyer would be all over this...

If ETNZ wants to try this kind of crap then they are a dead team sailing...

Not denying this, just saying, if someone were to offer your sailing team an F1 budget...how would you make it happen?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Ncik said:

True, but genuine question, which part of that plan would break the deed?

Valid Club?

Valid Boat?

Valid Sea?

Valid Challenger?

RNZYS don't have to host the challenger series. They don't have to have it in a new and expensive class. They don't have to put any serious effort ($$$) into a defence. They can just claim it is beyond their means to defend the Cup as per previous events (if they win again).

The farce would not hold up to the intent of the DoG.

OK, so if they got it shifted to Dalt'sFUYC.    And for what purpose?  Why would they want to do this?  They would have no fanbase and thus no customers for the advertising that the sponsors pay to attract.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Ncik said:

Not denying this, just saying, if someone were to offer your sailing team an F1 budget...how would you make it happen?

Why in the world would you think "someone" would be willing to offer an F1 budget?  What would be in it for them to do this?  

This discussion is akin to "what would you do if someone gave you $100 million dollars?"  Who the fck is going to do that?

Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

This would definitely bring in the lawyers.  

Bullshit! RNZYS can simply accept their preferred Challenger as the first one received, refuse to negotiate terms and force a DoG match in 10 months.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/26/2021 at 5:26 AM, EYESAILOR said:

The cup resides at the club which won the cup.  The only loophole is that RNZYS could accept a challenge from Dalts club and then lose that challenge.  But the challenging club would have to meet the deed of gift requirements as Allinghi found out when they tried to create a bogus challenging club and got sued in NY court.

If I correctly understand what you mean that would require:

1) Dalts to find another YC in another country meeting the requirements

2) Be able to find enough money to challenge without the help of the NZ taxpayers

3) Be accepted as a challenger

4) Survive possible legal firestorm

5) Win the next AC

That makes a lot of "if".

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

You know this would never fly....  The lawyer would be all over this...

If ETNZ wants to try this kind of crap then they are a dead team sailing...

Stop yakking through your butt hole and read the Deed. Conspiracy addiction must be a cultural thing with you muppets..

It'll not only fly, it's perfectly legal under the Deed!! But it'll never happen...

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

LR would just get into a taking duel and kill them..

You'll kill us with a talking duel.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Another view of clew and the bottom of the main, looking neat & tidy as.

DSC_6226.JPG

Taut and clean on the foot, another great shot thx

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

LR would just get into a taking duel and kill them....

Quite possible!

IF           LR get the jump on NZ at the Start Line,
AND      win the First Cross,
AND      then Cover relentlessly...

THEN    NZ will be in a spot of bother.

I think. :unsure:

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

LR would just get into a taking duel and kill them....

Oh yes as we all know the best tacker always wins the cup. I suggest you look at the BA interview from Planet Sail from today. They know how fast ETNZ is. Over 11knots he said Prada is toast.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, barfy said:

Taut and clean on the foot, another great shot thx

??? Really! Gap between sails, bits sticken out.

Thought it looked a bit 'hula' compared to the very clean LR main control setup

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Quite possible!

IF           LR get the jump on NZ at the Start Line,
AND      win the First Cross,
AND      then Cover relentlessly...

THEN    NZ will be in a spot of bother.

I think. :unsure:

7 to 1 to NZ kiwis will have the same hieght and be 3 kn faster in any direction 

Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

If I correctly understand what you mean that would require:

1) Dalts to find another YC in another country meeting the requirements

2) Be able to find enough money to challenge without the help of the NZ taxpayers

3) Be accepted as a challenger

4) Survive possible legal firestorm

5) Win the next AC

That makes a lot of "if".

 

6: never ever come back to NZ because you & the crew will go down as probably the most hated Cunty PoS in NZ sporting history.

 

This sort of self-dealing was explicitly ruled unacceptable in GGYC vs SNG.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Weta for the smoking shots.  Pretty damned impressive, and regarding the delay, dare I say DARN IT!  Actually muttering some stronger words under my breath.  Had the first race on my calendar for a loooonnnnggg time.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, weta27 said:

The charge home  ... maybe someone just heard what's for dinner 

DSC_6258.JPG

Lightly grilled Italian sailor served on an obsolete AC75? 8)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

Why in the world would you think "someone" would be willing to offer an F1 budget?  What would be in it for them to do this?  

This discussion is akin to "what would you do if someone gave you $100 million dollars?"  Who the fck is going to do that?

Um, isn't $100M about the budget for each team this round?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

5) Win the next AC

If that's your goal. The goal may be to have a viable competition that isn't reliant on a few billionaire egos.

Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Wandering Geo said:

??? Really! Gap between sails, bits sticken out.

Thought it looked a bit 'hula' compared to the very clean LR main control setup

Why do you think the gap is undesirable?  

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, I ride bikes said:

Why do you think the gap is undesirable?  

Re Gap: Cant remember who , but someone AC related once commented that even turds are tapered. ie gap = drag

They seem to have been fiddling with that area an awful lot. Changes weekly almost.

Possible they are not really happy with some aspect of the main control and having gone the boomless route, now have to live with its limitations.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites