Jump to content

Recommended Posts

TR testing a Code Zero but from the footage which is from a distance I didn't see them get up on the foils. Not sure this is a good thing or a bad thing for them given they are using smaller foils. Do they think they may need something extra to help them up? 

 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 16.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

It's pissing down outside and yes, we are back to Level 3. To all those moaning and bitching about it and calling the PM childish names, get a grip, we are the luckiest people in the world right

Yes, quite light but I didn't see all the afternoon's sailing, can only comment on later in the day, when Britannia 2 was running a #1 jib and foiling around no problem. They look quite quick at times

They towed out around 11am and the breeze was light and puffy to start with. Foiled down the Channel and headed out to the Bays. The breeze started to build around midday and they got some long runs i

Posted Images

26 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

TR testing a Code Zero but from the footage which is from a distance I didn't see them get up on the foils. Not sure this is a good thing or a bad thing for them given they are using smaller foils. Do they think they may need something extra to help them up? 

 

Having two sails up like that just seems bizarre.

We are told that having a code zero up is too draggy, but they've got a zero plus another?

Huh?????

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

TR testing a Code Zero but from the footage which is from a distance I didn't see them get up on the foils. Not sure this is a good thing or a bad thing for them given they are using smaller foils. Do they think they may need something extra to help them up?

They are "leaving no sail unfurled".  :)

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

They are "leaving no sail unfurled".  :)

Haha, I wonder whether the intent would be to use in really light airs for downwind sections only in displacement mode.

Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Having two sails up like that just seems bizarre.

We are told that having a code zero up is too draggy, but they've got a zero plus another?

Huh?????

Very odd indeed. They are also not using a J1 !

Are they trying to put the wind up the Italians?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

TR testing a Code Zero but from the footage which is from a distance I didn't see them get up on the foils. Not sure this is a good thing or a bad thing for them given they are using smaller foils. Do they think they may need something extra to help them up? 

 

Yeah well that worked well. Or not...

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Very odd indeed. They are also not using a J1 !

Are they trying to put the wind up the Italians?

Very likely :D. Probably trying to trigger the Italians to file yet another complaint to the MC...

Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Very odd indeed. They are also not using a J1 !

Are they trying to put the wind up the Italians?

 Can we guess how many hours lrpp would have had to waste analysing this?

Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Very odd indeed. They are also not using a J1 !

Are they trying to put the wind up the Italians?

Given that they have a furler installed, they are making the tradeoff between the extra drag of the zero vs the ability to get foil borne AT ALL in super light winds.

I would have thought any winds low enough to warrant this would be below the race limits.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, WakaNZ said:

Did anyone capture or see this? 

"Team New Zealand had one alarming moment during training on Tuesday, with Te Rehutai leaping skyward at one stage before Burling calmly brought it under control" 

NZ Herald?

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Indio said:

Probably referring to this: which is not what it looks like.

It's TR's graceful shuttle-like landing at 9:50 in the video below

image.png.afdf8df9677a41c99c8d0b32af05ca58.png

 

I’m pretty sure this was a defensive manoeuvre they’d been working on in the event they raced Sir Ben. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Given that they have a furler installed, they are making the tradeoff between the extra drag of the zero vs the ability to get foil borne AT ALL in super light winds.

I would have thought any winds low enough to warrant this would be below the race limits.

Ditto.   And if they use the C0 to get on the foils, they then have the substantial drag of the furled sail. Plus, they did not even have the J1 hoisted, looked like maybe the J2, so I really don't know what they were trying to test!

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Ditto.   And if they use the C0 to get on the foils, they then have the substantial drag of the furled sail. Plus, they did not even have the J1 hoisted, looked like maybe the J2, so I really don't know what they were trying to test!

Our patience? ;)

Honestly it just has to be a hail mary pass if "all else fails", but if they CAN'T foil without that can LR CAN then its game-o.

I can only see this being of use in a drift fest like they had vs INEOS where they started in marginal winds which then dropped to fuck all.

BUT, if the winds don't drop like that then they are left dragging that big arse sail through the air, which even when furled has GOT to be a bitch.

They obviously know a TRUCK LOAD more about this than I could ever dream of knowing, so I can only assume there is some special sauce in there that makes this all make sense.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Indio said:

Very likely :D. Probably trying to trigger the Italians to file yet another complaint to the MC...

If you do things properly and follow the rules (rules mostly written by you) there will be no complaints

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, jaysper said:

They obviously know a TRUCK LOAD more about this than I could ever dream of knowing, so I can only assume there is some special sauce in there that makes this all make sense.

Let me know if you figure out the recipe!  :lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jaysper said:

Given that they have a furler installed, they are making the tradeoff between the extra drag of the zero vs the ability to get foil borne AT ALL in super light winds.

I would have thought any winds low enough to warrant this would be below the race limits.

At LR they tried CZ and then abandoned it for good. I wonder who made the right call. ETNZ probably have spare time and maybe prefer to give it an extra try.

Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, 45Roller said:

Anything in the rules about cutting away a furled CZ? 

I'm not sure that would be permitted, unless due to force majeure.

That would be direct trash disposal and even a possible danger to navigation.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, strider470 said:

I'm not sure that would be permitted, unless due to force majeure.

That would be direct trash disposal and even a possible danger to navigation.

Yeah true mate, obviously a chase boat would pick it up, but as you say it doesn't exactly send the right message, I'm sure you have to keep any Sails you think you might fly on board, as you say, no harm in testing in case a super and stable race day arrives, however unlikely that may be

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, strider470 said:

At LR they tried CZ and then abandoned it for good. I wonder who made the right call. ETNZ probably have spare time and maybe prefer to give it an extra try.

mind games.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, The Advocate said:

mind games.

Now it's time for sailing games, I think. I fear the only sensible usage of a CZ could be to finish a race in displacement in time before it is abandoned. But then again carrying all that drag...

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Now it's time for sailing games, I think. I fear the only sensible usage of a CZ could be to finish a race in displacement in time before it is abandoned. But then again carrying all that drag...

Mind games never stop, it is part of the sailing game.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Mind games never stop, it is part of the sailing game.

If the CZ thing was a mind game it didn't work at all. LR stuck with their decision not to use those sails. Whatever will be, will be.

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Now it's time for sailing games, I think. I fear the only sensible usage of a CZ could be to finish a race in displacement in time before it is abandoned. But then again carrying all that drag...

Having a race abandoned due to time issues haunts Lord Dalton on a nightly basis and will so for all eternity...

6-6 sudden death winner takes all light very light conditions RM states all good to go both teams in displacement mode TNZ bring out the whomper = happy days seen it in the movies.

BB594395-3802-4457-88FE-4C280924C767.jpeg.5916c1157e68e926ac6a1cd0824f5c31.jpeg

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, strider470 said:

If the CZ thing was a mind game it didn't work at all. LR stuck with their decision not to use those sails. Whatever will be, will be.

There’s plenty going on.  At this stage it’s all mind games .Both teams are set with what they have but if you put enough doubt into the opposition minds your winning.     The fact we are all talking about it is proof alone 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Having a race abandoned due to time issues haunts Lord Dalton on a nightly basis and will so for all eternity...

6-6 sudden death winner takes all light very light conditions RM states all good to go both teams in displacement mode bring out the whomper = happy days seen it in the movies.

BB594395-3802-4457-88FE-4C280924C767.jpeg.5916c1157e68e926ac6a1cd0824f5c31.jpeg

 

That's true, I wonder if the drag to carry the CZ is worth the risk.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Zeusproject said:

There’s plenty going on.  At this stage it’s all mind games .Both teams are set with what they have but if you put enough doubt into the opposition minds your winning.     The fact we are all talking about it is proof alone 

I think we are more affected than the teams :D

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, strider470 said:

That's true, I wonder if the drag to carry the CZ is worth the risk.

That high cut life saver could lay on deck ready to deploy in the trough between the two crew pods until required the sheeting angles on the jib are tight leaving plenty of available realestate to deploy the CZ remotely.

This AC defence is do or die for TNZ no win = no future the bank is empty.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Having a race abandoned due to time issues haunts Lord Dalton on a nightly basis and will so for all eternity...

6-6 sudden death winner takes all light very light conditions RM states all good to go both teams in displacement mode bring out the whomper = happy days seen it in the movies.

BB594395-3802-4457-88FE-4C280924C767.jpeg.5916c1157e68e926ac6a1cd0824f5c31.jpeg

 

Fuck aye. All the experts on here and you’re the first one to get it. 
 

races can start over the wind limit and die off. 
 

Rules state the only reason crew can go forward of the line (a couple meters isn front of the mast) is to change sails. 
Rules also state they must carry a Code Z (or the equivalent weight). 
So ETNZ have been working on a drifter sail for non foiling conditions ever since Ineos caught up to them down wind in that infamous race. That scenario is very real and put the shits up them. 
 

Now they have a solution. Might never need it, butcha never bloody know. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, JJD said:

Fuck aye. All the experts on here and you’re the first one to get it. 
 

races can start ove the wind limit and die off. 
 

rules state the only reason crew can go forward off the line (a couple meters isn front of the mast) is to change sails. 
rules also state they must carry a Code Z (or the equivalent weight). 
so ETNZ have been working on a drifter sail  for non foiling conditions ever since Ineos caught up to them down wind in that infamous race. That scenario is very real and out the shits up them. 
 

now they have a solution. Might never need it, butcha never bloody know. 

They were a lap down mind you 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, JJD said:

rules also state they must carry a Code Z (or the equivalent weight). 

Carry on deck...there was some discussion about a cover for it tho.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Zeusproject said:

They were a lap down mind you 

It wasn’t the fact they could lose that particular race. 
 

it was the fact that very scenario could very well play out where they weren’t a lap down and were slower in displacement mode. or they were behind and the park and me died,  this gives them a shot to over take and win, even in a drift comp. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Now it's time for sailing games, I think. I fear the only sensible usage of a CZ could be to finish a race in displacement in time before it is abandoned. But then again carrying all that drag...

I can see a race in 6 to 8 knots being completely dominated by a boat with a CZ on a roller if it's possible for it to lift them onto the foils. If thats the case, it wouldn't even be close. The first lull that dropped both boats in the ocean would be game over for the other guy.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, barfy said:

Carry on deck...there was some discussion about a cover for it tho.

Barfy it could be flown and retrieved loose like an 18 footer no stay nor furler required.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Boybland said:

I can see a race in 6 to 8 knots being completely dominated by a boat with a CZ on a roller if it's possible for it to lift them onto the foils. If thats the case, it wouldn't even be close. The first lull that dropped both boats in the ocean would be game over for the other guy.

But given LR has massive foils compared to ETNZ, or so is said in SAAC, I wonder how a boat able to foil in low windspeeds would go against one in displacement mode with a CZ. Could be interesting.

Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, strider470 said:

I'm not sure that would be permitted, unless due to force majeure.

"Got more pressure, quick, get the CZ down onto the deck."

"Ready boys?  OK,   1, 2, 3..."

[splash]

"OOPS"

:D

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, The Advocate said:

But given LR has massive foils compared to ETNZ, or so is said in SAAC, I wonder how a boat able to foil in low windspeeds would go against one in displacement mode with a CZ. Could be interesting.

Lord  Dalton is on the record stating that wind supply is not going to be an issue for the match however having a plan B can be a game saver...

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

This AC defence is do or die for TNZ no win = no future the bank is empty.

Why do you say that? Don't you think there will be a future even should they lose the Cup? I bet it would be reasonably easy to find sponsorship for TNZ, being the most strong team in the last decades. They guarantee better visibility for any sponsor than any other team.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

"Got more pressure, quick, get the CZ down onto the deck."

"Ready boys?  OK,   1, 2, 3..."

[splash]

"OOPS"

:D

NZ this is the Umpires, penalty.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

But given LR has massive foils compared to ETNZ, or so is said in SAAC, I wonder how a boat able to foil in low windspeeds would go against one in displacement mode with a CZ. Could be interesting.

Game over!  As the foiler flies off into the far distance....

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Priscilla said:

Lord  Dalton is on the record stating that wind supply is not going to be an issue for the match however having a plan B can be a game saver...

The other use for this sail is to get across to breeze faster than your opponent if wallowing in displacement mode. 
Raise and unfurl, sail to the windy patch, furl up and drop, take off foiling and win race. 
 

either way it is a solution for a particular scenario. Genius. 
 

Do you think Prada are now working on one of their own?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

NZ this is the Umpires, penalty.

" Guys, the Umpire wants us to drop 50m off our 800m lead."

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

"Got more pressure, quick, get the CZ down onto the deck."

"Ready boys?  OK,   1, 2, 3..."

[splash]

"OOPS"

:D

Ever seen an 18 footer trawl a spinnaker.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Why do you say that? Don't you think there will be a future even should they lose the Cup? I bet it would be reasonably easy to find sponsorship for TNZ, being the most strong team in the last decades. They guarantee better visibility for any sponsor than any other team.

Those are Lord Daltons words the future for ETNZ does not necessarily lay on the sparkling Waitemata but in an auction for the event sold to the highest bidder.

No win no bidders.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone have an idea how long it actually takes for ETNZ to hoist the CZ, and to take if down and secure it?

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Anyone have an idea how long it actually takes for ETNZ to hoist the CZ, and to take if down and secure it?

Probably not that long to set it, but is the breeze came in and they start foiling with it I can see a cluster fuck length of time getting it down.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Those are Lord Daltons words the future for ETNZ does not necessarily lay on the sparkling Waitemata but in an auction for the event sold to the highest bidder.

No win no bidders.

I think GD is wrong on this. Win or lose, TNZ IS New Zealand, fight for New Zealand, and should stay in New Zealand.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Anyone have an idea how long it actually takes for ETNZ to hoist the CZ, and to take if down and secure it?

 

15 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Probably not that long to set it, but is the breeze came in and they start foiling with it I can see a cluster fuck length of time getting it down.

You have obviously never sailed a Flying 15.

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Probably not that long to set it, but is the breeze came in and they start foiling with it I can see a cluster fuck length of time getting it down.

They are on a roller aren't they?

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Indio said:

Probably referring to this: which is not what it looks like.

It's TR's graceful shuttle-like landing at 9:50 in the video below

image.png.afdf8df9677a41c99c8d0b32af05ca58.png

 

The H.A.M.B. | Morgan cars, Three wheeled car, Classic cars

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

 

You have obviously never sailed a Flying 15.

Several times, only one race though. Won that, ticked that box, moved on. Quite like the class theoretically, did nothing for me though.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The first time that I can remember the Kiwis copying an Italian idea in the AC? So no crossing side during starting practice against the chase boat and Ray Davies. Could this be a sign? LOL....

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, eurochild said:

Thoughts in good AC Twitter accounts?

there are a couple, but not much more information outside of what you will see posted in the various threads here:

https://twitter.com/CupInfo

https://twitter.com/SailWorldNews

https://twitter.com/americascup

then of course the various hashtags etc

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

The first time that I can remember the Kiwis copying an Italian idea in the AC? So no crossing side during starting practice against the chase boat and Ray Davies. Could this be a sign? LOL....

 

Back in Bermuda, I'm told that they found some Italian ideas quite useful as well.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Question for the rules bods amongst us, sails have to be stored on deck right?

But. Team NZ have those pods for their cockpit, is the floor inside those pods deck?

Could a furled code zero be snaked up and down one of the pod, sure it'd be in the way of the grinders, but it wouldn't have any extra drag over the pod already...

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Zeusproject said:

Only on the last leg maybe.  But easier hoisted and retrieved furled 

Certainly will be interesting to see the tricky plan that's been hatched...how about a recess down one side of the crew pod that the furled sail slips into.

And if we the punters are interested imagine LR scratching their heads!! Good fun with lots of surprises hopefully.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

Question for the rules bods amongst us, sails have to be stored on deck right?

But. Team NZ have those pods for their cockpit, is the floor inside those pods deck?

Could a furled code zero be snaked up and down one of the pod, sure it'd be in the way of the grinders, but it wouldn't have any extra drag over the pod already...

Crossed posts with you...exactly what I was pondering...should see some requests for interpretation?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Flags said:

They are on a roller aren't they?

Yes, they furl.  However, once foiling and using the J1, you wouldn't want the furled sail adding drag, so ideally you would lower it.

I was curious how much time it would take to furl the CZ, plus lower and stow it, or vice versa.

If it takes 5 mins to unstow the furled sail, clip it to the bowsprit, hoist it and deploy it, there could be a problem if a gust hits 2 mins in and lets your opponent get foiling using his J1.

Maybe?

Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Yes, they furl.  However, once foiling and using the J1, you wouldn't want the furled sail adding drag, so ideally you would lower it.

I was curious how much time it would take to furl the CZ, plus lower and stow it, or vice versa.

If it takes 5 mins to unstow the furled sail, clip it to the bowsprit, hoist it and deploy it, there could be a problem if a gust hits 2 mins in and lets your opponent get foiling using his J1.

Maybe?

yes

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, terrafirma said:

The first time that I can remember the Kiwis copying an Italian idea in the AC? So no crossing side during starting practice against the chase boat and Ray Davies. Could this be a sign? LOL....

 

A bit late I think.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, fish7yu said:

America's Cup: Kiwis pull a couple of rabbits out of the hat ahead of the Match

by Richard Gladwell/Sail-World.com/nz 3 Mar 16:27 HKT3 March 2021

America's Cup: Kiwis pull a couple of rabbits out of the hat ahead of the Match

 

21-03-27-yysw308898.jpg

"The lightweight Code Zero appears to be deployed more to get the AC75 moving and increase the apparent windflow, to get the boat up to the 12kts of boat speed which seems to be the minimum for take-off on the foils. "

Then the boat promptly accelerates to 60+ knots...   :lol:

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, fish7yu said:

America's Cup: Kiwis pull a couple of rabbits out of the hat ahead of the Match

by Richard Gladwell/Sail-World.com/nz 3 Mar 16:27 HKT3 March 2021

America's Cup: Kiwis pull a couple of rabbits out of the hat ahead of the Match

 

21-03-27-yysw308898.jpg

 

40 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

waste of bandwidth.

Not sure what has happened to RG. He used to offer a reasonable amount of thought and information on all things AC.

Since the 36th round started in AKL he seems to have become more and more hopeless in getting to grips with what's happening on and off the water. The poor old SailWorld audience are getting short changed.

Link to post
Share on other sites