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2 minutes ago, strider470 said:

I agree. Not only they are faster, but they can do real match racing at supersonic speed. And what about the pre start? It should be even longer.

Amen, amen and amen. 

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It's pissing down outside and yes, we are back to Level 3. To all those moaning and bitching about it and calling the PM childish names, get a grip, we are the luckiest people in the world right

Yes, quite light but I didn't see all the afternoon's sailing, can only comment on later in the day, when Britannia 2 was running a #1 jib and foiling around no problem. They look quite quick at times

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7 minutes ago, Flags said:

Still amazing racing I thought, but yes technology moves on.

Here is a thought??

Maybe the Americas cup should be like a triathlon, you know 6 races in a 12m, 6 in a cat, and 6 in an AC75, just to mix it up a little :)

Make no mistake, the Cats were fantastic and in high winds, as Burling said on that reach with BAR, almost uncontrollable. That was thrilling as they hung on by the ears.....Wow. 

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2 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

Make no mistake, the Cats were fantastic and in high winds, as Burling said on that reach with BAR, almost uncontrollable. That was thrilling as they hung in by the ears.....Wow. 

Completely OFF topic, but it is Anarchy, but are you near Dublin, have you ever seen Allie Sherlock 15yr old busker on Grafton Street? What an amazing talent!! Now back to sailing :)

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2 minutes ago, Flags said:

Completely OFF topic, but it is Anarchy, but are you near Dublin, have you ever seen Allie Sherlock 15yr old busker on Grafton Street? What an amazing talent!! Now back to sailing :)

Yes, yes, yes, she's awesome.

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11 minutes ago, strider470 said:

I agree. Not only they are faster, but they can do real match racing at supersonic speed. And what about the pre start? It should be even longer.

This is very true.

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7 minutes ago, Flags said:

Completely OFF topic, but it is Anarchy, but are you near Dublin, have you ever seen Allie Sherlock 15yr old busker on Grafton Street? What an amazing talent!! Now back to sailing :)

No problem Flags and yes, I’m in Dublin and Allie is a legend. In most videos on YouTube she’s on Grafton Street right outside a department store Brown Thomas. Check out Damien Rice and Damien Dempsey, polar opposites in style but very talented. 

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10 minutes ago, Flags said:

Completely OFF topic, but it is Anarchy, but are you near Dublin, have you ever seen Allie Sherlock 15yr old busker on Grafton Street? What an amazing talent!! Now back to sailing :)

What an amazing voice!! Just searched on  YouTube!

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22 minutes ago, strider470 said:

What an amazing voice!! Just searched on  YouTube!

We have a shed load of talented musicians on this little island, we just need a few more sailors :lol:

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2 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

We have a shed load of talented musicians on this little island, we just need a few more sailors :lol:

I always wanted to visit Ireland. Hope to have the possibility as soon as we return to some normality

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1 minute ago, strider470 said:

I always wanted to visit Ireland. Hope to have the possibility as soon as we return to some normality

A warm welcome awaits you. 

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1 hour ago, Flags said:

I posted before, but if you go back and watch Bermuda, the cats look positively slow upwind compared to these boats, I never thought I would say that :)

I re-watched one of the Bermuda races posted here recently and thought the same.  They look pedestrian and very labored through maneuvers compared to the 75s

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1 minute ago, NSP said:

I re-watched one of the Bermuda races posted here recently and thought the same.  They look pedestrian and very labored through maneuvers compared to the 75s

Have a look at race 2, semi finals BAR v ETNZ ..... a good watch. And on the same day, I think, Artemis v SoftBank. 

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On 3/5/2021 at 4:58 AM, Xlot said:

 

What next, locusts?

 

I had a customer in Melbourne some years back.

(1) Their premises flooded, server room partially submerged, UPS's underwater. Servers survived with some damage, but while replacements ordered, UPS was dead and disconnected.

(2) That night, their premises was hit by lightening. Any servers that had survived flooding now had so many red failure LEDs that it could be seen from space. Server replacements acquired ex-stock in NZ and accompanied me as luggage (huge baggage cost for 10+ heavy boxes) to Melbourne.

(3) Got to Melbourne, replaced failed kit. News came on that the 10year locust cycle was due and that we could expect a plague if them to descend from the Western desert.

Figured that after Flood, Lightening, and Locusts they were on their own...

So locusts do happen...

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Just now, Paddywackery said:

Have a look at race 2, semi finals BAR v ETNZ ..... a good watch. And on the same day, I think, Artemis v SoftBank. 

Was that the day Percy and co were dodging parts coming off the Artemis boat?  That's actually a great example as it was the absolute upper range of those boats and from memory the tacks were still very labored with massive boat speed losses (often 10+ kn) through each maneuver

 

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43 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

We have a shed load of talented musicians on this little island, we just need a few more sailors :lol:

You must have some good sailors, I heard a two of them commentating on the olympics a couple of years ago.... :lol::D:P They sounded so knowledgeable 

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19 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

Have a look at race 2, semi finals BAR v ETNZ ..... a good watch. And on the same day, I think, Artemis v SoftBank. 

Bold: My favorite. Although these boats looked like toys all the time, this race was incredible.

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1 minute ago, Flags said:

You must have some good sailors, I heard a two of them commentating on the olympics a couple of years ago.... :lol::D:P They sounded so knowledgeable 

Too good to not share it again:
 

 

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Just now, Rennmaus said:

Too good to not share it again:
 

 

Yeah, we have the best commentators for sure, would love to see them cover the AC :lol:

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2 minutes ago, Flags said:

You must have some good sailors, I heard a two of them commentating on the olympics a couple of years ago.... :lol::D:P They sounded so knowledgeable 

Oh we know how to sail, we just haven’t figured out how to fly ..... yet ;)

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Just now, 45Roller said:

Yeah, we have the best commentators for sure, would love to see them cover the AC :lol:

Ken would get the hump. Shirley is married to a nice Irishman so she will help for sure. 

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4 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Bold: My favorite. Although these boats looked like toys all the time, this race was incredible.

Incredible is the word. Watching live back then my heart was in my mouth. I thought the boats were going to blow up. 

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38 minutes ago, 45Roller said:

Yeah, we have the best commentators for sure, would love to see them cover the AC :lol:

Team GB, led by Steven Spielberg.

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1 hour ago, Barnyb said:

The late shift after a delay due to the earthquakes

 

157172378_5497750216916652_8028889171130559446_o.jpg

Shit, I'm out of likes mate, that's a beautiful photo, perfect desktop wallpaper 

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3 minutes ago, 45Roller said:

Shit, I'm out of likes mate, that's a beautiful photo, perfect desktop wallpaper 

Spose, it's better than the hairy dwarf ginger picture you currently have. 

You're sick. 

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5 hours ago, Paddywackery said:

We have a shed load of talented musicians on this little island, we just need a few more sailors :lol:

You do have St Brendan, "the Navigator". He sailed from Ireland across the Altantic in a tiny boat (cockle?) made of twigs and hides, possibly as far as Iceland, with some of his mad mates! :)

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On 3/4/2021 at 10:23 AM, Regular Swimmer said:

Others are a bit confused about the nature of those limits.  This is not the speed of light - the limits are those of current designs, not physical laws 

 

Exactly my point, thanks. 

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On 3/4/2021 at 10:29 AM, JALhazmat said:

I am not doubting that it’s been done just wondering who or how they were doing the measuring. 

With their dicks. 

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We had a couple of up close experiences with ETNZ on the back paddock on Monday while returning to port from a level 2 area. Sorry for the crappy camera work - phone camera in rocking boat, trying to actually get a decent look as well as filming.

Fly by: 

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AkhQRXV3iVHzpAhxDaDRjM1qtaO7?e=dymqkn

Top mark rounding - bear away and gybe

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AkhQRXV3iVHzpAekILspLq-QxCgd

Top mark rounding - best shot

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AkhQRXV3iVHzpAbiACqDuYCQDyDG

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7 minutes ago, KiwiACFan said:

We had a couple of up close experiences with ETNZ on the back paddock on Monday while returning to port from a level 2 area. Sorry for the crappy camera work - phone camera in rocking boat, trying to actually get a decent look as well as filming.

Well done really - not easy on a boat a tad smaller than an ocean liner, eh?  :D

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6 hours ago, Paddywackery said:

Oh we know how to sail, we just haven’t figured out how to fly ..... yet ;)

Harold Cudmore did a sterling job coaching America³ to success in 1992 and the women on Mighty Mary came oh so close in the 1995 defender trials.

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32 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Harold Cudmore did a sterling job coaching America³ to success in 1992 and the women on Mighty Mary came oh so close in the 1995 defender trials.

Dirty Dennis did Leslie Egnot and friends a favour by shielding them from what was an inevitable thrashing.

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14 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Dirty Dennis did Leslie Egnot and friends a favour by shielding them from what was an inevitable thrashing.

Will disagree with that Jasper my thoughts are if Leslie and Co had made it to the the AC match the loss would have paled in comparison to the exposure for women to be an integral part of the AC landscape rather than than very few we see today.

Sure TNZ have two female non sailors that they rock out regularly but apart from them things are pretty thin and on an semi automated boat the brawn argument is swept away.

Good on Pete and Blair choosing to be more inclusive in Sail GP.

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9 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Will disagree with that Jasper my thoughts are if Leslie and Co had made it to the the AC match the loss would have paled in comparison to the exposure for women to be an integral part of the AC landscape rather than than very few we see today.

Sure TNZ have two female non sailors that they rock out regularly but apart from them things are pretty thin and on an semi automated boat the brawn argument is swept away.

Good on Pete and Blair choosing to be more inclusive in Sail GP.

I'm not taking about the greater good here.

I'm just talking about the beating that TNZ were inevitably going to dish out to whoever turned up to defend.

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4 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I'm not taking about the greater good here.

I'm just talking about the beating that TNZ were inevitably going to dish out to whoever turned up to defend.

Hah hearing Cayard “wot now” simply brilliant.

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46 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Dirty Dennis did Leslie Egnot and friends a favour by shielding them from what was an inevitable thrashing.

Dawn Riley as well. That was heartbreaking but typical Dennis. Ironic that he lost the cup on the same but opposite fashion  a couple of cups previous. 

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1 hour ago, KiwiACFan said:

We had a couple of up close experiences with ETNZ on the back paddock on Monday while returning to port from a level 2 area. Sorry for the crappy camera work - phone camera in rocking boat, trying to actually get a decent look as well as filming.

Fly by: 

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AkhQRXV3iVHzpAhxDaDRjM1qtaO7?e=dymqkn

Top mark rounding - bear away and gybe

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AkhQRXV3iVHzpAekILspLq-QxCgd

Top mark rounding - best shotam

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AkhQRXV3iVHzpAbiACqDuYCQDyDG

Thanks - pretty good quality for a phone cam...

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35 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Hah hearing Cayard “wot now” simply brilliant.

He later said he'd never been in a boat race where he had so little control over the outcome.

I really do think ETNZ are going to have a similar level of dominance this time around.

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2 minutes ago, jaysper said:

He later said he'd never been in a boat race where he had so little control over the outcome.

I really do think ETNZ are going to have a similar level of dominance this time around.

Going to be a cracker first 500m off the line on Wednesday that’s if they can get off the line...

Possibly Lord Daltons words regarding that the expected wind conditions are stronger for this period of the regatta may well haunt him forever.

May the best boat win.

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8 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

You do have St Brendan, "the Navigator". He sailed from Ireland across the Altantic in a tiny boat (cockle?) made of twigs and hides, possibly as far as Iceland, with some of his mad mates! :)

Correct. Some say he made it to America but forgot to tell anyone. 

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On 2/28/2021 at 11:18 PM, Tornado-Cat said:

If I correctly understand what you mean that would require:

1) Dalts to find another YC in another country meeting the requirements   Yes.   Easy part, there are 1000s that meet the requirements

2) Be able to find enough money to challenge without the help of the NZ taxpayers I think the primary reason for relocating the defense would be because the funding was not available in NZ and someone else offered enough money to host a defense in a new location. So the money would come first and the loophole second.

3) Be accepted as a challenger This is the snag.  Either (1) Dalts persuades RNZYS that a relocated defense with a different club s defender is in best interests of the NZ team   or (2) Ambushes RNZYS with a legitimate challenge the second 36 is complete.    

4) Survive possible legal firestorm

5) Win the next AC   The easy part.  Dalts puts Burling Ashby etc on the challenging team with the newest boat.  The old boat sand bags a single race format.  Its a legal loophole not a real match 

That makes a lot of "if".

 

Remember my position is that Dalts cannot simply move the next defense. The cup is held by RNZYS not ETNZ.  According to the Deed of Gift Dalts does not select his defending club. Somebody had suggested that if ETNZ won they could move the cup to a different cub 

However,  I merely pointed out that there is a loophole in the DoG where the defense could be moved by staging an artificial challenge and moving the cup.

I do not think it is likely because RNZYS respects the tradition of the AC and I doubt they would agree to such a scheme.

Let us examine more likely scenarios:

Remember in the background the Deed of Gift specifies that in the event of a club not being in a position to defend the cup, the cup reverts to the prior winner , which would be GGYC/Oracle. RNZYS and ETNZ do not want that at any cost.

Scenario #1 :  Funding is available and sponsors support a 37th defense hosted in NZ.  NZ govt and Auckland are supportive. Status quo.survives. 

Scenario #2 :  Funding is tight and Dalts + RNZYS want to examine other options with deeper pockets.  RNZYS is supportive of exploring those options. RNZYS easiest path is to agree to new locations but remain defending club, 

Scenario #3 .  RNZYS and Dalts split.  RNZYS finds a new defender syndicate and Dalts becomes a challenger . 

Scenario #4 RNZYS cannot find a new defender syndicate with sufficient funds and rather than hand cup back to GGYC, agrees to the artificial challenge from Dalts and lets him take it where he wants.

I think scenarios 1 and 2 are realistically the most likely scenarios.

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Remember my position is that Dalts cannot simply move the next defense. The cup is held by RNZYS not ETNZ.  According to the Deed of Gift Dalts does not select his defending club. Somebody had suggested that if ETNZ won they could move the cup to a different cub 

However,  I merely pointed out that there is a loophole in the DoG where the defense could be moved by staging an artificial challenge and moving the cup.

I do not think it is likely because RNZYS respects the tradition of the AC and I doubt they would agree to such a scheme.

Let us examine more likely scenarios:

Remember in the background the Deed of Gift specifies that in the event of a club not being in a position to defend the cup, the cup reverts to the prior winner , which would be GGYC/Oracle. RNZYS and ETNZ do not want that at any cost.

Scenario #1 :  Funding is available and sponsors support a 37th defense hosted in NZ.  NZ govt and Auckland are supportive. Status quo.survives. 

Scenario #2 :  Funding is tight and Dalts + RNZYS want to examine other options with deeper pockets.  RNZYS is supportive of exploring those options. RNZYS easiest path is to agree to new locations but remain defending club, 

Scenario #3 .  RNZYS and Dalts split.  RNZYS finds a new defender syndicate and Dalts becomes a challenger . 

Scenario #4 RNZYS cannot find a new defender syndicate with sufficient funds and rather than hand cup back to GGYC, agrees to the artificial challenge from Dalts and lets him take it where he wants.

I think scenarios 1 and 2 are realistically the most likely scenarios.

 

 

 

 

But in your scenarios, if Dalts wants to be  challenger (and LRPP don't win) he can'tdo that with NZ flag.

Any organized yacht Club of a foreign country, incorporated, patented, or licensed by the legislature, admiralty or other executive department, having for its annual regatta an ocean water course on the sea, or on an arm of the sea, or one which combines both, shall always be entitled to the right of sailing a match for this Cup with a yacht or vessel propelled by sails only and constructed in the country to which the challenging Club belongs, against any one yacht or vessel constructed in the country of the Club holding the Cup

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23 minutes ago, strider470 said:

But in your scenarios, if Dalts wants to be  challenger (and LRPP don't win) he can'tdo that with NZ flag.

Any organized yacht Club of a foreign country, incorporated, patented, or licensed by the legislature, admiralty or other executive department, having for its annual regatta an ocean water course on the sea, or on an arm of the sea, or one which combines both, shall always be entitled to the right of sailing a match for this Cup with a yacht or vessel propelled by sails only and constructed in the country to which the challenging Club belongs, against any one yacht or vessel constructed in the country of the Club holding the Cup

Under scenarios 1 and 2, dalts would be able to use NZ flag.

Under scenaio 3. Correct. Dalts would be running a challenger syndicate just like every other challenger.  It would be akin to Allinghi defection.

Under scenario 4 .  Dalts would most likely be under the flag of the sponsor , using a club in the sponsor country.  But if sponsor, NZ and dalts all liked the idea of remaining a NZ team without RNZYS it could be done as follows.

(i) As soon as 36 is over, Dalt's Foreign Yacht Club challenges RNZYS.

(ii) Dalts NZ team sandbags to Dalts FYC team on Monday.  FYC team is cup holder.  

(iii) Dalts NZ club challenges Dalts FYC  on Monday immediately after race. Protocol agrees to a race the following day.

(iv) On Tuesday Dalts FYC team sandbags to dalts NZ YC.   NZ club becomes holder of cup.

I see absolutely no reason why this would happen or the benefits.  Theoretically possible but no reason or rationale.

If Dalts and sponsor want to race as Team New Zealand, why wouldnt they simply stick with RNZYS?

If Dalts wants to race for a foreign team, then he mounts a challenge .

There is of course a fifth scenario:

Scenario #5 :   

ETNZ wins AC in 2021

Dalts and RNZYS split.  RNZYS cannot find a financially viable defender but accepts a CoR from Team UK.   The challenger series becomes the de facto AC. followed by a brief AC race with a virtually pre determined outcome.   This is still better than returning the cup to GGYC/Oracle. I think it s very unlikely because the defender always seems to find a financial backer somewhere. 

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1 minute ago, EYESAILOR said:

Under scenarios 1 and 2, dalts would be able to use NZ flag.

Under scenaio 3. Correct. Dalts would be running a challenger syndicate just like every other challenger.  It would be akin to Allinghi defection.

Under scenario 4 .  Dalts would most likely be under the flag of the sponsor , using a club in the sponsor country.  But if sponsor, NZ and dalts all liked the idea of remaining a NZ team without RNZYS it could be done as follows.

(i) As soon as 36 is over, Dalt's Foreign Yacht Club challenges RNZYS.

(ii) Dalts NZ team sandbags to Dalts FYC team on Monday.  FYC team is cup holder.  

(iii) Dalts NZ club challenges Dalts FYC  on Monday immediately after race. Protocol agrees to a race the following day.

(iv) On Tuesday Dalts FYC team sandbags to dalts NZ YC.   NZ club becomes holder of cup.

I see absolutely no reason why this would happen or the benefits.  Theoretically possible but no reason or rationale.

If Dalts and sponsor want to race as Team New Zealand, why wouldnt they simply stick with RNZYS?

If Dalts wants to race for a foreign team, then he mounts a challenge .

There is of course a fifth scenario:

Scenario #5 :   

ETNZ wins AC in 2021

Dalts and RNZYS split.  RNZYS cannot find a financially viable defender but accepts a CoR from Team UK.   The challenger series becomes the de facto AC. followed by a brief AC race with a virtually pre determined outcome.   This is still better than returning the cup to GGYC/Oracle. I think it s very unlikely because the defender always seems to find a financial backer somewhere. 

You are right. Thank God the Italians were machiavellian :D

Much more easy to leave LR win and challenge with whatever NZ club he wants in 2024 :D

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Honestly.......we could only get this Machiavellian with an Italian challenge.

Here is what will really happen if ETNZ wins its defense.

RYS will challenge.  RNZYS will defend.  Dalts will organize defense. In order to make the defense financially viable for small country like NZ the event will become much more international attracting international sponsorship.  It could include any number of variations with ACWS circuit. Even a challenger series hosted outside NZ but whatever the format, it will be RYS challenge and RNZYS defense.   

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1 hour ago, EYESAILOR said:

Remember my position is that Dalts cannot simply move the next defense. The cup is held by RNZYS not ETNZ.  According to the Deed of Gift Dalts does not select his defending club. Somebody had suggested that if ETNZ won they could move the cup to a different cub 

However,  I merely pointed out that there is a loophole in the DoG where the defense could be moved by staging an artificial challenge and moving the cup.

I do not think it is likely because RNZYS respects the tradition of the AC and I doubt they would agree to such a scheme.

Let us examine more likely scenarios:

Remember in the background the Deed of Gift specifies that in the event of a club not being in a position to defend the cup, the cup reverts to the prior winner , which would be GGYC/Oracle. RNZYS and ETNZ do not want that at any cost.

Scenario #1 :  Funding is available and sponsors support a 37th defense hosted in NZ.  NZ govt and Auckland are supportive. Status quo.survives. 

Scenario #2 :  Funding is tight and Dalts + RNZYS want to examine other options with deeper pockets.  RNZYS is supportive of exploring those options. RNZYS easiest path is to agree to new locations but remain defending club, 

Scenario #3 .  RNZYS and Dalts split.  RNZYS finds a new defender syndicate and Dalts becomes a challenger . 

Scenario #4 RNZYS cannot find a new defender syndicate with sufficient funds and rather than hand cup back to GGYC, agrees to the artificial challenge from Dalts and lets him take it where he wants.

I think scenarios 1 and 2 are realistically the most likely scenarios.

The Cup can only got to GGYC if the RNZYS dissolves and there is no other YC in NZ that takes over the Cup and defender role.

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4 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

The Cup can only got to GGYC if the RNZYS dissolves and there is no other YC in NZ that takes over the Cup and defender role.

You are 100% right. Most of my post was wrong, including the idea that you can have 2 successive artificial challenges. There is a minimum of 10 months notice for a challenge 

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1 minute ago, EYESAILOR said:

You are 100% right. Most of my post was wrong, including the idea that you can have 2 successive artificial challenges. There is a minimum of 10 months notice for a challenge 

And that would be Bertarellian, not Machiavellian :D

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1 hour ago, EYESAILOR said:

Remember my position is that Dalts cannot simply move the next defense. The cup is held by RNZYS not ETNZ.  According to the Deed of Gift Dalts does not select his defending club. Somebody had suggested that if ETNZ won they could move the cup to a different cub 

However,  I merely pointed out that there is a loophole in the DoG where the defense could be moved by staging an artificial challenge and moving the cup.

I do not think it is likely because RNZYS respects the tradition of the AC and I doubt they would agree to such a scheme.

Let us examine more likely scenarios:

Remember in the background the Deed of Gift specifies that in the event of a club not being in a position to defend the cup, the cup reverts to the prior winner , which would be GGYC/Oracle. RNZYS and ETNZ do not want that at any cost.         The Deed of gift is silent on the topic of a club being unable to fund a defense. My best guess is that if a club cannot find a syndicate to mount a viable defense, the new challenger wins either by DoG event or by a challenger series with a subsequent win by default.

Scenario #1 :  Funding is available and sponsors support a 37th defense hosted in NZ.  NZ govt and Auckland are supportive. Status quo.survives. 

Scenario #2 :  Funding is tight and Dalts + RNZYS want to examine other options with deeper pockets.  RNZYS is supportive of exploring those options. RNZYS easiest path is to agree to new locations but remain defending club, 

Scenario #3 .  RNZYS and Dalts split.  RNZYS finds a new defender syndicate and Dalts becomes a challenger . 

Scenario #4 RNZYS cannot find a new defender syndicate with sufficient funds and atherr than hand cup back to GGYC, and agrees to the artificial challenge from Dalts and lets him take it where he wants.

I think scenarios 1 and 2 are realistically the most likely scenarios.

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

You are 100% right. Most of my post was wrong, including the idea that you can have 2 successive artificial challenges. There is a minimum of 10 months notice for a challenge 

Not necessarily. The dates can be MCed, specifically the 10 months can be waived.

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1 minute ago, Rennmaus said:

Not necessarily. The dates can be MCed, specifically the 10 months can be waived.

You are correct on this as well......so theoretically you could have two successive artificial challenges in quick succession to move from RNZYS to another NZ club without RNZYS dissolving.  I have no idea why anyone would do  this but theoretically possible.  

Academic discussion and not going to happen. 

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10 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

 

You are correct on this as well......so theoretically you could have two successive artificial challenges in quick succession to move from RNZYS to another NZ club without RNZYS dissolving.  I have no idea why anyone would do  this but theoretically possible.  

Academic discussion and not going to happen. 

If TNZ tried to host the AC with RNZYS consent it would be like the Oracle/Bermuda event.  The problem with this is that the team members have their families and homes in NZ and that gives them the incentive to work for TNZ for less money than they could get elsewhere.  In the event that TNZ does move away the odds are that large numbers of the team would accept an offer of two or three times what TNZ pays them and we would be back to a 2003 situation. TNZ would be destroyed and would lose the cup to the biggest bidder.

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1 minute ago, Terry Hollis said:

If TNZ tried to host the AC with RNZYS consent it would be like the Oracle/Bermuda event.  The problem with this is that the team members have their families and homes in NZ and that gives them the incentive to work for TNZ for less money than they could get elsewhere. 

There is eventually going to be a lot of pressure on these world class sailor athletes to accumulate and save some capital for retirement. Careers dont last for ever.  If they really are paid 1/2 to 1/3 of what they could be earning elsewhere, ETNZ will lose some of their talent.

In the event that TNZ does move away the odds are that large numbers of the team would accept an offer of two or three times what TNZ pays them and we would be back to a 2003 situation. TNZ would be destroyed and would lose the cup to the biggest bidder.   

NZ's prodigious sailing success for such a small nation is a phenomena .  

 

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2 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Remember my position is that Dalts cannot simply move the next defense. The cup is held by RNZYS not ETNZ.  According to the Deed of Gift Dalts does not select his defending club. Somebody had suggested that if ETNZ won they could move the cup to a different cub 

However,  I merely pointed out that there is a loophole in the DoG where the defense could be moved by staging an artificial challenge and moving the cup.

I do not think it is likely because RNZYS respects the tradition of the AC and I doubt they would agree to such a scheme.

Let us examine more likely scenarios:

Remember in the background the Deed of Gift specifies that in the event of a club not being in a position to defend the cup, the cup reverts to the prior winner , which would be GGYC/Oracle. RNZYS and ETNZ do not want that at any cost.

Scenario #1 :  Funding is available and sponsors support a 37th defense hosted in NZ.  NZ govt and Auckland are supportive. Status quo.survives. 

Scenario #2 :  Funding is tight and Dalts + RNZYS want to examine other options with deeper pockets.  RNZYS is supportive of exploring those options. RNZYS easiest path is to agree to new locations but remain defending club, 

Scenario #3 .  RNZYS and Dalts split.  RNZYS finds a new defender syndicate and Dalts becomes a challenger . 

Scenario #4 RNZYS cannot find a new defender syndicate with sufficient funds and rather than hand cup back to GGYC, agrees to the artificial challenge from Dalts and lets him take it where he wants.

I think scenarios 1 and 2 are realistically the most likely scenarios.

IF NZ wins 36 the two key points are the money and who choses the next CoR.

Let's say that Dalton already knows he won't have enough money to defend AC37 if he wins the 36 and he already has an offer from the Emiratis to organize a challenge in their country, the options are the following:

1) Dalts convinces RNZYS to defend outside. One of your scenario, it won't happen IMO, imagine the outcry from the public after spending public money to defend and watch the home team leave.

2) Dalts negociates at this time with RNZYS and the gov for AC37 budgets and uses all these scenarios to put pressure.

3) Dalts accepts Ben's challenge as CoR and an Emiratis he will join later with an MC to impose their views on a defending RNZYS with no money and no chances of winning.

4) Dalts pretends he accepts an english YC as next CoR while in fact accepts an Emiratis one that he intends to join later. The accepted challenge is a DoG one with a very short notice, Dalts uses the last boat to challenge under the Emiratis and and wins by default. That could draw a lot of legal fire power but who would do it ? the RNZYS ? No, they would not have enough public money to give to US lawyers for that cause.

 

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42 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

IF NZ wins 36 the two key points are the money and who choses the next CoR.

Let's say that Dalton already knows he won't have enough money to defend AC37 if he wins the 36 and he already has an offer from the Emiratis to organize a challenge in their country, the options are the following:

1) Dalts convinces RNZYS to defend outside. One of your scenario, it won't happen IMO, imagine the outcry from the public after spending public money to defend and watch the home team leave.  Okay I understand this option. The Dalts argument would be, we will be better off financially to host some events in NZ but the final event is in Emirates.  1. We still race for NZ with a NZ team.  2. We can pay the NZ sailors properly. They wont all quit. 3. NZ makes money (as a host on the tour) vs having to be subsidized.   

2) Dalts negociates at this time with RNZYS and the gov for AC37 budgets and uses all these scenarios to put pressure.

So in this scenario, it is status quo. Hosted by RNZYS in New Zealand.

3) Dalts accepts Ben's challenge as CoR and an Emiratis he will join later with an MC to impose their views on a defending RNZYS with no money and no chances of winning.  What does MC stand for?   So in this option, Dalts and ETNZ team members become a challenger alongside every other challenger.  If Dalts has already decided to be a challenger then maybe he would rather be a challenger of record than one of several challengers.

4) Dalts pretends he accepts an english YC as next CoR while in fact accepts an Emiratis one that he intends to join later. Dalts does not get to accept challenges. It is  RNZYS. So if RNZYS is going to accept a challenge from a yacht club in the Emirates that would all have to be planned ahead of time.  Once a challenge is accepted from RYS in England, the RYS will not give that up to someone else. The accepted challenge is a DoG one with a very short notice, Dalts uses the last boat to challenge under the Emiratis and and wins by defaulthat could draw a lot of legal fire power but who would do it ? the RNZYS ? No, they would not have enough public money to give to US lawyers for that cause.  

 

All of these negotiations will be happening now because the new challenge will occur at the close of the final race.

I personally suspect that RNZYS will accept a challenge from RYS of UK. RNZYS will ask Dats to defend and then Dalts and his team will put together a submission. In order to fund the defense and keep flying a NZ flag both Defense and CoR may have to contemplate bids to host the defense. It is an option they must consider.  But I think they will keep it simple.

 

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11 hours ago, jaysper said:

He later said he'd never been in a boat race where he had so little control over the outcome.

I really do think ETNZ are going to have a similar level of dominance this time around.

John Bertrand essentially gave the same response. That token win was merely an aberration. 

 

There was a t-shirt that I think it was Champions of the World sold, of "quotes" Dirty Den made during the '95 Cup, essentially a t-shirt of memes before memes were memes...one of the quotes was..."where the F@*K did Black Magic go?!"...funnny at the time I guess but, yeah. Reminds me of the, as Axl said, bitch slapping S&S copped and the "wot now" quote. Chris Law was amused at the time too. He was a fantastic commentator I thought. Peter Lester, Glen Sowry when he became available, Chris Law, PJ Montgomery we're a great team. although John McBeth was annoying. 

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59 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

All of these negotiations will be happening now because the new challenge will occur at the close of the final race.

I personally suspect that RNZYS will accept a challenge from RYS of UK. RNZYS will ask Dats to defend and then Dalts and his team will put together a submission. In order to fund the defense and keep flying a NZ flag both Defense and CoR may have to contemplate bids to host the defense. It is an option they must consider.  But I think they will keep it simple.

 

Stop sniffing your dirty underwear - it's clearly causing you to hallucinate

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I'd think many Kiwi heads will explode if Dalton does a Coutts, repeats 2003 and heads off to foreign lands with his buddies.

If not, there's a nice big chunk of high quality hypocrisy going around...

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4 minutes ago, alphafb552 said:

I'd think many Kiwi heads will explode if Dalton does a Coutts, repeats 2003 and heads off to foreign lands with his buddies.

If not, there's a nice big chunk of high quality hypocrisy going around...

He is only trying to get the most for the team future. I doubt he really want to repeat 2003

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38 minutes ago, alphafb552 said:

I'd think many Kiwi heads will explode if Dalton does a Coutts, repeats 2003 and heads off to foreign lands with his buddies.

If not, there's a nice big chunk of high quality hypocrisy going around...

I'm assuming you mean sails for a different country?

IMO Coutts didn't cop a hiding cos he sailed for another CUNTry, he copped a hiding because he extracted the heart of the team and took it to sail for another CUNTry.

Dalton won't do it, but if he did then fuck him.

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1 minute ago, jaysper said:

I'm assuming you mean sails for a different country?

IMO Coutts didn't cop a hiding cos he sailed for another CUNTry, he copped a hiding because he extracted the heart of the team and took it to sail for another CUNTry.

Dalton won't do it, but if he did then fuck him.

I'm sure he will not. You can say a lot of things against him (from the outside), but I respect him because he always acted for the good of the team and NZ

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40 minutes ago, strider470 said:

He is only trying to get the most for the team future. I doubt he really want to repeat 2003

Exactly.     Its all a matter of how he pays the team.

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1 minute ago, strider470 said:

I'm sure he will not. You can say a lot of things against him (from the outside), but I respect him because he always acted for the good of the team and NZ

Agreed.

He runs his mouth too much but he is an incredible leader and has been the saviour of that team.

Without him, they would have been gone-burgers a LOOONG time ago.

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19 minutes ago, strider470 said:

I'm sure he will not. You can say a lot of things against him (from the outside), but I respect him because he always acted for the good of the team and NZ

GD is kiwi through and through. There is no way he would abandon his country for cash like Coutts. He is not interested in becoming an exile or pariah like Coutts, Butterworth and the snowy heads. I am sure he has enough for a comfortable retirement in his homeland. 

He is also a very shrewd player and he respects the history of the Cup which has given him so much. 

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3 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

IF NZ wins 36 the two key points are the money and who choses the next CoR.

Let's say that Dalton already knows he won't have enough money to defend AC37 if he wins the 36 and he already has an offer from the Emiratis to organize a challenge in their country, the options are the following:

1) Dalts convinces RNZYS to defend outside. One of your scenario, it won't happen IMO, imagine the outcry from the public after spending public money to defend and watch the home team leave.

2) Dalts negociates at this time with RNZYS and the gov for AC37 budgets and uses all these scenarios to put pressure.

3) Dalts accepts Ben's challenge as CoR and an Emiratis he will join later with an MC to impose their views on a defending RNZYS with no money and no chances of winning.

4) Dalts pretends he accepts an english YC as next CoR while in fact accepts an Emiratis one that he intends to join later. The accepted challenge is a DoG one with a very short notice, Dalts uses the last boat to challenge under the Emiratis and and wins by default. That could draw a lot of legal fire power but who would do it ? the RNZYS ? No, they would not have enough public money to give to US lawyers for that cause.

 

BoilingUnequaledGermanshorthairedpointer

 

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