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11 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Prada demonstrated that it didn’t need that build and could tack through easily, ineos needed that build phase, if NZ need it too albeit with a potentially higher top speed they WILL suffer tacking losses 

Agreed.

I mentioned a while back that if LR get a good start and manage to win the first cross, NZ could be in trouble if LR then control them in a tacking duel, nullifying any raw speed advantage NZ might have.

Plus we have no reliable info as to whether NZ can match LR's effective AWA ability, although I suspect they probably can.

A tactical tacking duel may be NZ's Achilles heel?

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It's pissing down outside and yes, we are back to Level 3. To all those moaning and bitching about it and calling the PM childish names, get a grip, we are the luckiest people in the world right

After many hours of consideration, a lot of in-depth research on the SA technical threads, extensive computational modelling and a few quick & dirty minutes in Photoshop, I have produced this anal

They towed out around 11am and the breeze was light and puffy to start with. Foiled down the Channel and headed out to the Bays. The breeze started to build around midday and they got some long runs i

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1 minute ago, MaxHugen said:

Agreed.

I mentioned a while back that if LR get a good start and manage to win the first cross, NZ could be in trouble if LR then control them in a tacking duel, nullifying any raw speed advantage NZ might have.

Plus we have no reliable info as to whether NZ can match LR's effective AWA ability, although I suspect they probably can.

A tactical tacking duel may be NZ's Achilles heel?

True, but Pete said in the presser that the one maneuver that they practiced the most in the simulator was tacking, presuming they would have plugged in all the race data they had from LRPP and ran the sims based on that.. they will be well aware of LRPP's strength in tacking duels

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1 minute ago, MaxHugen said:

Agreed.

I mentioned a while back that if LR get a good start and manage to win the first cross, NZ could be in trouble if LR then control them in a tacking duel, nullifying any raw speed advantage NZ might have.

Plus we have no reliable info as to whether NZ can match LR's effective AWA ability, although I suspect they probably can.

A tactical tacking duel may be NZ's Achilles heel?

Soon find out Brother, I think (& have laid down money on this) that ETNZ will match or exceed LRPP's demonstrated levels of maneuverability, saw film of them doing 360's in yesterday's conditions, both foil's down AND accelerating out of the turn..... Looked also like their FCS has been turned up a notch as the raise lower appears faster than Prada's

 

If Prada get's their nose in front then ETNZ will have their hands full..... ETNZ gets even or wins the start?..... yeah!

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5 minutes ago, 45Roller said:

True, but Pete said in the presser that the one maneuver that they practiced the most in the simulator was tacking, presuming they would have plugged in all the race data they had from LRPP and ran the sims based on that.. they will be well aware of LRPP's strength in tacking duels

It's like practising watching adult movies and then pretending to be Rocco Siffredi :D

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@Indio I know you have one but jesus you don't have to be a complete cunt ALL the time.

participation in a thread is based on current AC participation? fuckin hell, you will be wanting birth certificates as proof of ID next. 

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2 minutes ago, 45Roller said:

True, but Pete said in the presser that the one maneuver that they practiced the most in the simulator was tacking, presuming they would have plugged in all the race data they had from LRPP and ran the sims based on that.. they will be well aware of LRPP's strength in tacking duels

Absolutely, they will even know the size of every crewman's undies!  :P

However, knowing about LR's light air advantage during tacking, and being able to counter it, is another thing.

My bet is that NZ would concentrate on post-tack acceleration, as they do have that "camber adjustment device" at the mast base to really boost low down camber and power in light air.

Tomorrow will probably tell how many comments I should not have posted. :D

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2 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Absolutely, they will even know the size of every crewman's undies!  :P

However, knowing about LR's light air advantage during tacking, and being able to counter it, is another thing.

My bet is that NZ would concentrate on post-tack acceleration, as they do have that "camber adjustment device" at the mast base to really boost low down camber and power in light air.

Tomorrow will probably tell how many comments I should not have posted. :D

:lol:

Yeah true mate, post tack acceleration will be key, looking back at the race data we have on TR, she sure held impressive speed through the tacks, I guess we'll know in a few hours how that looks in the lower ranges, as I don't recall off hand if we saw them race in the sub 10knot range :D

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3 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

careful Max, Indio doesn't want non participating nationals making comments anymore ;)

But but but.... "Ah has ma rahts." :huh:

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4 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

careful Max, Indio doesn't want non participating nationals making comments anymore ;)

As a British, having physically crafted the Cup itself, you will be always entitled to comment, no matter what some newcomer could argue ;)

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6 minutes ago, 45Roller said:

:lol:

Yeah true mate, post tack acceleration will be key, looking back at the race data we have on TR, she sure held impressive speed through the tacks, I guess we'll know in a few hours how that looks in the lower ranges, as I don't recall off hand if we saw them race in the sub 10knot range :D

Yes, they have shown their required "bear-away" tacking strategy in a couple of the ACWS races, as well at times during practice.

Of course they only need to do this at the lower wind range, once it gets above maybe 10-12 knots, they continue to amaze me that a 7.8t AC75 can be whipped through a turn so fast!

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18 minutes ago, 45Roller said:

:lol:

Yeah true mate, post tack acceleration will be key, looking back at the race data we have on TR, she sure held impressive speed through the tacks, I guess we'll know in a few hours how that looks in the lower ranges, as I don't recall off hand if we saw them race in the sub 10knot range :D

ACWS race 12, up until the wind crapped out.

both boats probably 6-8 kts slower than Prada and INEOS were in the Prada final races in the same wind.

performance like the ACWS in that range will see NZ smoked

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6 hours ago, weta27 said:

Spotted on Te Rehutai today - should we be worried?? :o

bucket.jpg

Only if they get a blue one...

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43 minutes ago, strider470 said:

As a British, having physically crafted the Cup itself, you will be always entitled to comment, no matter what some newcomer could argue ;)

They made the original. A protester ensured NZ had to pay to make V2...

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47 minutes ago, 45Roller said:

:lol:

Yeah true mate, post tack acceleration will be key, looking back at the race data we have on TR, she sure held impressive speed through the tacks, I guess we'll know in a few hours how that looks in the lower ranges, as I don't recall off hand if we saw them race in the sub 10knot range :D

Of course we are all assuming here that TR is starting and finishing her tacks at the same AWA are LR. If they are starting from say 1.5 degrees higher then they could afford or maybe even have to bear away a little in a tack. We saw how effective the LR "high mode" was, what if TR have a "higher mode" ?

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Just now, Nutta said:

They made the original. A protester ensured NZ had to pay to make V2...

But I remember they sent it back to UK for repairing :)

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2 minutes ago, Flags said:

Of course we are all assuming here that TR is starting and finishing her tacks at the same AWA are LR. If they are starting from say 1.5 degrees higher then they could afford or maybe even have to bear away a little in a tack. We saw how effective the LR "high mode" was, what if TR have a "higher mode" ?

What if LR  have a "ludicrous mode?" (cit Space Balls) :D

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1 minute ago, strider470 said:

But I remember they sent it back to UK for repairing :)

Well, the native NZ craftsman involved in the incident proved he had the wrong tools and temperament for silver work...

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25 minutes ago, strider470 said:

What if LR  have a "ludicrous mode?" (cit Space Balls) :D

I cant quite figure out who to follow, I was born in NZ, my cousin built and sailed "black sheep" for NZ in the Kenwood Clipper Cup years ago.

I lived in Milano for 2 years

I'm a member of JSpits yacht club in Syd.

hmmmm

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22 minutes ago, Nutta said:

Well, the native NZ craftsman involved in the incident proved he had the wrong tools and temperament for silver work...

Ahh yes - the Infamous Harald Bennett Plate as it was referred to in the halloed halls of the RNZYS...... Jeez Coach got some serious stick over that.....

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53 minutes ago, strider470 said:

What if LR  have a "ludicrous mode?" (cit Space Balls) :D

LOL mate, had to dig that one out, such a classic scene :lol:

 

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32 minutes ago, Flags said:

I cant quite figure out who to follow, I was born in NZ, my cousin built and sailed "black sheep" for NZ in the Kenwood Clipper Cup years ago.

I lived in Milano for 2 years

I'm a member of JSpits yacht club in Syd.

hmmmm

you're a winner either way mate :D

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On 3/7/2021 at 3:32 PM, winchfodder said:

 

Ernie also beats Larry hands down on the homefront (see below).

Thank heaven we will be back racing in a couple of days and the phony war will be finished.

axmk4Mq4.jpg

Not if the rumors regarding her and Russell are true...

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17 minutes ago, idontwan2know said:

Not if the rumors regarding her and Russell are true...

Isn't that more up Kenny's street?

Though you can never underestimate the power of the Cup!

But all ends well in the end. For Wussell that is!

alinghi-skipper-russell-coutts-embraces-kirsty-and-dona-bertarelli-after-americas-cup-win-in-auckland-2D4J2HF.jpg

550310c4dd08957f3c8b45c6.jpeg

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3 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Isn't that more up Kenny's street?

Though you can never underestimate the power of the Cup!

But all ends well in the end.

 

 

Him and Jim Clarks wife? 

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13 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Isn't that more up Kenny's street?

Though you can never underestimate the power of the Cup!

But all ends well in the end. For Wussell that is!

alinghi-skipper-russell-coutts-embraces-kirsty-and-dona-bertarelli-after-americas-cup-win-in-auckland-2D4J2HF.jpg550310c4dd08957f3c8b45c6.jpeg

Finally understood why they call it a trophy wife.

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From my extensive knowledge of British aristocracy mores - derived from a youthful, sinful reading of Lady Chatterley’s Lover at the time of the trial, plus a couple of TV series - it would appear that upper class ladies did in fact have a penchant for male servants

 My brief personal acquaintance with RC, however, agrees with Luca Devoti’s assessment that BA’s comparatively infinetely more refined - the guy did come across as exceedingly raw. So, just maybe, if the pig keeper was not available ...

 

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Well not too long now , hope Pistol Pete owns Jimmy at the start like he did in Bermuda when he got underneath him,  took him up till he parked and then bore away.

It was a thing of beauty.

Jimmy will  be worried if ETNZ has the speed and maneuverability to hook him.

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9 minutes ago, Navig8tor said:

Well not too long now , hope Pistol Pete owns Jimmy at the start like he did in Bermuda when he got underneath him,  took him up till he parked and then bore away.

It was a thing of beauty.

Jimmy will  be worried if ETNZ has the speed and maneuverability to hook him.

As Ian Williams pointed out in his excellent discussion, getting underneath (behind and to leeward) of an AC75 in the prestart is a risky business. If you are following into the line safer to stay on the hip and hope they are early.

The windward starts are so much better than the catamarans reaching in. I just wish they were three or more minutes. Though I guess the danger then would be one team luffing sufficiently to force the windward boat of the foils, and we know how much a dampner that can be for close racing. Which is I guess why they wisely restricted it to two minutes, just about time enough to reach the boundary and head back to the line with limited manoeuvres. 

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6 minutes ago, Navig8tor said:

Well not too long now , hope Pistol Pete owns Jimmy at the start like he did in Bermuda when he got underneath him,  took him up till he parked and then bore away.

It was a thing of beauty.

Jimmy will  be worried if ETNZ has the speed and maneuverability to hook him.

I expect it to be exciting  but I'm wondering to what extent ETNZ want to mix it up if they believe that they have a faster boat. What mindset do they adopt on entry. 

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3 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

As Ian Williams pointed out in his excellent discussion, getting underneath (behind and to leeward) of an AC75 in the prestart is a risky business. If you are following into the line safer to stay on the hip and hope they are early.

Yes and why take the risk if it's not necessary. Then there's the added dimension of the 'red mist' descending and the close quarter combat becoming damaging. Now that would be a disaster so I'm hoping for clean starts and good racing. INEOS and LRPP came mighty close to having a collision.

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2 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

I expect it to be exciting  but I'm wondering to what extent ETNZ want to mix it up if they believe that they have a faster boat. What mindset do they adopt on entry. 

I think in the first race ETNZ will not mix up at the start believing that they have a faster boat. Then of course they will mix up as much as they can in the second race start :D

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1 minute ago, strider470 said:

I think in the first race ETNZ will not mix up at the start believing that they have a faster boat. Then of course they will mix up as much as they can in the second race start :D

So strider, will you be getting up for the racing or will you stay up and wait? I have tried both and staying up was easier. Not sure which strategy I will use tonight :lol:

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Think both skippers will be reasonably conservative on the first couple of starts,  until they actually line up together no one really knows just what could happen but if either makes a mistake I would expect to see no mercy from the other.

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4 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

So strider, will you be getting up for the racing or will you stay up and wait? I have tried both and staying up was easier. Not sure which strategy I will use tonight :lol:

I'm an attacker, I want to feel the smell of the fight. it can be sailing, darts, ping pong...

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9 minutes ago, mauriciogfj said:

^^There will be enough attacks here to keep you awake.

I'm always disconnected from SA AC during races.

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6 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Not questioning the smoothness or ease of getting foiling.

I am questioning the ability to hold a slow high mode and not need a speed build that has the sacrifice of VMG. 
 

Prada demonstrated that it didn’t need that build and could tack through easily, ineos needed that build phase, if NZ need it too albeit with a potentially higher top speed they WILL suffer tacking losses 

Remember its not just foil size but profile also and we can't really see that in photos. 

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21 minutes ago, mauriciogfj said:

Wear your chastity belt when you log in after the races (irrespective of the result)

ahahahha I fear you're right.

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It's Wednesday morning. Winds this afternoon are from the north to north west at around 15 knots. There will be gusts around 18 to 20 knots. High tide is around 6pm at 2.9 metres, so it's wind with tide and a moderate tidal flow. It's a cool morning and there's going to be lots of showers today.

Jimmy has been almost civilised up to this point. His ginger CUNTYNESS will likely float to the surface like an aerated turd that won't flush. His smarmy cockiness will attract the appreciation of bullies and used car salesmen throughout the world. He'll likely raise his voice in frustration at his team and they'll realise they foolishness in forgiving his Aussie ginger self of being so. There's only one way to flush a floater, beat it with a stick. 

Peter, on the other hand, will revert to his dodge and defer answers off the water and thrash the boat around the chop like he stole it with his trademark big dinghy attitude. There will be surprises, there will be tricks. There will be joy. And there will be drama.

Back in Italy, they're in lockdown. They'll be watching and admiring from afar while we're on the water, on the land and watching history being made. Who is free? None of us are. We're trapped in this cycle of fear and anticipation together. This is a sailboat race.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Salty Seacock said:

It's Wednesday morning. Winds this afternoon are from the north to north west at around 15 knots. There will be gusts around 18 to 20 knots. High tide is around 6pm at 2.9 metres, so it's wind with tide and a moderate tidal flow. It's a cool morning and there's going to be lots of showers today.

Jimmy has been almost civilised up to this point. His ginger CUNTYNESS will likely float to the surface like an aerated turd that won't flush. His smarmy cockiness will attract the appreciation of bullies and used car salesmen throughout the world. He'll likely raise his voice in frustration at his team and they'll realise they foolishness in forgiving his Aussie ginger self of being so. There's only one way to flush a floater, beat it with a stick. 

Peter, on the other hand, will revert to his dodge and defer answers off the water and thrash the boat around the chop like he stole it with his trademark big dinghy attitude. There will be surprises, there will be tricks. There will be joy. And there will be drama.

Back in Italy, they're in lockdown. They'll be watching and admiring from afar while we're on the water, on the land and watching history being made. Who is free? None of us are. We're trapped in this cycle of fear and anticipation together. This is a sailboat race.

 

 

Thanks Salty, that made me laugh. 

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7 hours ago, Nutta said:
7 hours ago, strider470 said:

As a British, having physically crafted the Cup itself, you will be always entitled to comment, no matter what some newcomer could argue ;)

They made the original. A protester ensured NZ had to pay to make V2...

After Bermuda the cup did a provincial tour of NZ. When it was up our way I had to do a quick running repair of the stage at one point. Boy did that security guy get fidgety when I approached the cup with a hammer in my hand :D

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To our Kiwi friends (I begin like this because I did the same with our British friends before the Prada Cup finals... and it worked :D )

Jokes apart, in bocca al lupo per la regata. You certainly are proud of your team, and they greatly deserve it, along with our respect and admiration as opponents  and Italians. But you should be proud of Luna Rossa as well, because there is also a little bit (but not so little) of Kiwi in them. If we are here, as the best of the challengers, after beating two of the most glorious sailing powers in the world, some credits must be given to you, to your example and inspiring attitude. Max Sirena had many teachers, and in the last campaign they were the best in the world. But now bando alle ciance,  we have to face the strongest team in the recent America's Cup history. We are ready. We have respect, not fear, and we know we will do our best, possibly more. Let's go sailing, the best sport in the world!

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3 hours ago, Paddywackery said:

So strider, will you be getting up for the racing or will you stay up and wait? I have tried both and staying up was easier. Not sure which strategy I will use tonight :lol:

I stayed awake when races were at 3am, but I set the alarm since they are 4am 

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10 minutes ago, Zaal said:

I stayed awake when races were at 3am, but I set the alarm since they are 4am 

That’s most likely what I will do as well. 

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7 hours ago, strider470 said:

Bruni to Spithill:"We passed them! Stop this thing!!!!" :D :D

Italy this is the umpires you have a boundary penalty...

...Two boundry penalties....

You are now sailing in italian waters. 

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15 minutes ago, strider470 said:

To our Kiwi friends (I begin like this because I did the same with our British friends before the Prada Cup finals... and it worked :D )

Jokes apart, in bocca al lupo per la regata. You certainly are proud of your team, and they greatly deserve it, along with our respect and admiration as opponents  and Italians. But you should be proud of Luna Rossa as well, because there is also a little bit (but not so little) of Kiwi in them. If we are here, as the best of the challengers, after beating two of the most glorious sailing powers in the world, some credits must be given to you, to your example and inspiring attitude. Max Sirena had many teachers, and in the last campaign they were the best in the world. But now bando alle ciance,  we have to face the strongest team in the recent America's Cup history. We are ready. We have respect, not fear, and we know we will do our best, possibly more. Let's go sailing, the best sport in the world!

To our Italian amici

Come and try and take it. We wish you the best of luck; you will need it.

I offer a hearty virtual handshake; see you on the water. 

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2 hours ago, Salty Seacock said:

 There's only one way to flush a floater, beat it with a stick. 

Peter, on the other hand, will revert to his dodge and defer answers off the water and thrash the boat around the chop like he stole it with his trademark big dinghy attitude. There will be surprises, there will be tricks. There will be joy. And there will be drama.

Back in Italy, they're in lockdown. They'll be watching and admiring from afar while we're on the water, on the land and watching history being made. Who is free? None of us are. We're trapped in this cycle of fear and anticipation together. This is a sailboat race.

 

 

Larf thanks.

Pete better not drive it like he stole it and wrap it around A buoy.

Supposed to be working this morning but instead doing this. I need SAACAA therapy.

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2 minutes ago, minimumfuss said:

Larf thanks.

Pete better not drive it like he stole it and wrap it around A buoy.

Supposed to be working this morning but instead doing this. I need SAACAA therapy.

I think the Gashby will be riding shotgun and watching for bouys on the way around.

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43 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Hankies out!

thanks for this... mad, I was rewatching it earlier.. still gets the hairs on the back of my neck

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6 minutes ago, mauriciogfj said:

The kiwi fans seems aufully subdued today.
Whats is it? Concentration or aprehension?

Waaahhhhh yaaaaahhhh zippity do da!

Better?

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7 minutes ago, mauriciogfj said:

The kiwi fans seems aufully subdued today.
Whats is it? Concentration or aprehension?

Slow start, work getting in the way, lighting candles and saying the rosary.

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7 minutes ago, mauriciogfj said:

The kiwi fans seems aufully subdued today.
Whats is it? Concentration or aprehension?

Self conscious of the Italian presses reaction and respect for Italian people.

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7 minutes ago, mauriciogfj said:

The kiwi fans seems aufully subdued today.
Whats is it? Concentration or aprehension?

Nervous anticipation with me.

Who's got the straight line speed. Who's got speed through the the turns. Who's got different modes.

Some of that can only be answered with whats gone on in past races, but that is pure speculation.

Today, it gets real and all the speculation can be replaced with facts for the conditions they race in.

Nervous anticipation.

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Just now, JJD said:

Nervous anticipation with me.

Who's got the straight line speed. Who's got speed through the the turns. Who's got different modes.

Some of that can only be answered with whats gone on in past races, but that is pure speculation.

Today, it gets real and all the speculation can be replaced with facts for the conditions they race in.

Nervous anticipation.

Understandable. As Max keeps saying, it is sport and anything can happen.

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8-11knots and the boat that supposedly struggles in light winds is foiling - while the light-winds specialist is - well, see for yourself:lol:

image.png.6fd90a26570ca75249556933a4bcceb0.png

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7 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

Slow start, work getting in the way, lighting candles and saying the rosary.

Praying are for trumpscum retards - and the desperate!

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11 minutes ago, mauriciogfj said:

The kiwi fans seems aufully subdued today.
Whats is it? Concentration or aprehension?

A bit nervous but also excited. We may have a good idea of who's won the cup after leg one. The last two cups have been decided by the best upwind VMG ...

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2 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

OT Juventus are struggling to put away Porto.

Who cares. I'm a Torino supporter! :D

1200px-Torino_FC_logo_svg.thumb.png.1c88453aff8c0087c39190214b83944f.png

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2 minutes ago, Indio said:

8-11knots and the boat that supposedly struggles in light winds is foiling - while the light-winds specialist is - well, see for yourself:lol:

image.png.6fd90a26570ca75249556933a4bcceb0.png

Pure bad Indio.

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2 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

It is really a shame that no matter who's wins, this will be the last AC in NZ waters....

Yep it will be... For another 3 years until the next defence!