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23 hours ago, southseasbill said:

I reckon an AC75 without the restrictions on monitoring of yacht state and feedback loops plus make everything battery powered, would make an awesome DoG challenger.

What's "awesome" about a remote-controlled AC75??

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It's pissing down outside and yes, we are back to Level 3. To all those moaning and bitching about it and calling the PM childish names, get a grip, we are the luckiest people in the world right

They towed out around 11am and the breeze was light and puffy to start with. Foiled down the Channel and headed out to the Bays. The breeze started to build around midday and they got some long runs i

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1 hour ago, Indio said:

What's "awesome" about a remote-controlled AC75??

I am guessing it would not be remote controlled, but AI controlled. I think it would be a shame. But I would watch.

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5 minutes ago, nroose said:

I am guessing it would not be remote controlled, but AI controlled. I think it would be a shame. But I would watch.

ETNZ will simply have their bot sail Te Rehutai II from their base while lounge around drinking Steinies and Nespressos :D

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10 hours ago, nroose said:

I am guessing it would not be remote controlled, but AI controlled. I think it would be a shame. But I would watch.

With AI control, human safety not an issue. AC37 = AC75 death match?

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17 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

It's probably north of 75% staying in NZL, then.

 

If they were really about to take it elsewhere the saber rattling and appeals for money would be far more strident.

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Just now, EYESAILOR said:

Has there been a firm word on the CoR yet or is it primarily conjecture?

No Word on the CoR at all!

But this isn't uncommon: When OTUSA won the AC34 on September 25th 2013 they waited until October 1st to confirm the Hamilton Island Yacht Club as new CoR!

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5 hours ago, Nutta said:

With AI control, human safety not an issue. AC37 = AC75 death match?

Demolition derby AC edition. I think the Italians, with the dual helmsbot R2D2 and C3PO, will have an edge in every start, as always. :D

START WARS

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21 hours ago, 36thLatitude said:

Dont we have a computer game guy worth 4 billion on board? 

And de Nora too 

 Cash ain’t a problem its there if they want it 

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@EYESAILOR

From this Article:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/americas-cup-2021-jimmy-spithill-says-he-would-be-shocked-if-cup-not-defended-in-new-zealand-again/CX6BG37UJBCQEJCOJTXEOZ3FFY/

"The Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron have confirmed they have already received and accepted a challenge for the 37th America's Cup, but have not revealed any information about who that challenger is and whether it would be a one-off match or a full regatta involving several teams. They are expected to do so later this week."

Translation: CoR Announcement could come any Day now, either today (Friday NZ Time), Saturday or Sunday.

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

No Word on the CoR at all!

But this isn't uncommon: When OTUSA won the AC34 on September 25th 2013 they waited until October 1st to confirm the Hamilton Island Yacht Club as new CoR!

Wrong, suprisingly.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/124578312/americas-cup-team-uk-confirmed-as-challenger-of-record-now-intrigue-deepens

 

cc @EYESAILOR

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12 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

@EYESAILOR

From this Article:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/americas-cup-2021-jimmy-spithill-says-he-would-be-shocked-if-cup-not-defended-in-new-zealand-again/CX6BG37UJBCQEJCOJTXEOZ3FFY/

"The Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron have confirmed they have already received and accepted a challenge for the 37th America's Cup, but have not revealed any information about who that challenger is and whether it would be a one-off match or a full regatta involving several teams. They are expected to do so later this week."

Translation: CoR Announcement could come any Day now, either today (Friday NZ Time), Saturday or Sunday.

I would love it to be a one off fairly quickly, but I don't get what the interest in this would be for RNZYS or ETNZ. Seems ridiculous and a rumor like this could only survive here. 

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Just now, pusslicker said:

I would love it to be a one off fairly quickly, but I don't get what the interest in this would be for RNZYS or ETNZ. Seems ridiculous and a rumor like this could only survive here. 

True, everything to lose and not much to gain for etnz

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Just now, Caecilian said:

The good news is that the public will begin to see the cup for what it is, an event that does not care about people only the money

That's why the public loved it. The reason you only have a few thousand people watching it now is that it is becoming too working class with guys like PB with an accent that sounds like he just came out of a fucking coal mine and zero personality. I think people want to see shit that is only about money and rich fucks. 

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8 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

LOL, just because somebody in a ball room said something it doesn't mean that's true. You cannot trust NZ Media, that's what I've learned over the years.

Thus far no Official Announcement (Press Release) has been made. And if the Royal Yacht Squadron were the CoR they + ITUK would be bragging all over it.

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33 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

That's why the public loved it. The reason you only have a few thousand people watching it now is that it is becoming too working class with guys like PB with an accent that sounds like he just came out of a fucking coal mine and zero personality. I think people want to see shit that is only about money and rich fucks. 

I'm not sure I agree with you a hundred percent on your police work, there, Lou.

 

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AmCup Insider says 5M is just quote "A Mere Drop in the Bucket"!

ETNZ needs 50M from NZ Government to stage AC37 in Auckland

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/americas-cup-2021-governments-5-million-pledge-a-drop-in-the-bucket/KHB6NJ2JCCUL5W3NDRR4DFMA5U/

But a cup insider told the Herald yesterday that much more would be needed from the Government both to retain key syndicate intellectual property – including both sailing crew and members of the design and tech team – as well as ensure the next defence was sailed in New Zealand waters.

The source said that figure would be close to the "$50 million" mark.

"That is just a good night out for [Sir James] Radcliffe ... it's peanuts".

More Snippets:

"He has the resources to basically pay for Team NZ to do that race and put them in a financial position so they can then defend the cup next time round if Team NZ wins, presumably back in Auckland."

The Brain behind Animation Reseach, who created these amazing Graphics Sir Ian Taylor would back a possible overseas bid for the AC quote.

Meanwhile, backing for the Cup defence to be raced overseas has been offered by the man behind stunning America's Cup broadcast graphics, Sir Ian Taylor from Animation Research.

He told Newstalk ZB if it was held overseas, it would put the team's leading-edge technology truly on the world map.

He said there wasn't too much coverage of the 36th America's Cup in the likes of The Guardian or the New York Times.

"I think we have to step back and ask what is best for New Zealand," he said.

"Do we benefit just by holding it here and everyone cramming around the shores, or could we benefit better by taking that valuable IP that has been created and one of the fastest boats ever built and putting it on the world stage where you can then expect 10-12 teams to respond.

"I think that is possibly a way better return on any investment."

 

I did not, to be perfectly honest with you all, think that ETNZ is sooo in dire straights when it comes to money. Maybe that's the real Reason Grant Dalton has hocked up with Sir Jim Ratcliffe!

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26 minutes ago, Caecilian said:

I'm not sure I agree with you a hundred percent on your police work, there, Lou.

 

Fair enough, but nobody is watching it. Who knows what the reason is.

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15 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

AmCup Insider says 5M is just quote "A Mere Drop in the Bucket"!

ETNZ needs 50M from NZ Government to stage AC37 in Auckland

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/americas-cup-2021-governments-5-million-pledge-a-drop-in-the-bucket/KHB6NJ2JCCUL5W3NDRR4DFMA5U/

But a cup insider told the Herald yesterday that much more would be needed from the Government both to retain key syndicate intellectual property – including both sailing crew and members of the design and tech team – as well as ensure the next defence was sailed in New Zealand waters.

The source said that figure would be close to the "$50 million" mark.

"That is just a good night out for [Sir James] Radcliffe ... it's peanuts".

More Snippets:

"He has the resources to basically pay for Team NZ to do that race and put them in a financial position so they can then defend the cup next time round if Team NZ wins, presumably back in Auckland."

The Brain behind Animation Reseach, who created these amazing Graphics Sir Ian Taylor would back a possible overseas bid for the AC quote.

Meanwhile, backing for the Cup defence to be raced overseas has been offered by the man behind stunning America's Cup broadcast graphics, Sir Ian Taylor from Animation Research.

He told Newstalk ZB if it was held overseas, it would put the team's leading-edge technology truly on the world map.

He said there wasn't too much coverage of the 36th America's Cup in the likes of The Guardian or the New York Times.

"I think we have to step back and ask what is best for New Zealand," he said.

"Do we benefit just by holding it here and everyone cramming around the shores, or could we benefit better by taking that valuable IP that has been created and one of the fastest boats ever built and putting it on the world stage where you can then expect 10-12 teams to respond.

"I think that is possibly a way better return on any investment."

 

I did not, to be perfectly honest with you all, think that ETNZ is sooo in dire straights when it comes to money. Maybe that's the real Reason Grant Dalton has hocked up with Sir Jim Ratcliffe!

Back to this 10-12 team fantasy? I think the usual amount is about 1/3rd of that turn up. We've heard ETNZ is dire straits for the past 20 years. This is just an act. 

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1 minute ago, pusslicker said:

Back to this 10-12 team fantasy? I think the usual amount is about 1/3rd of that turn up. We've heard ETNZ is dire straits for the past 20 years. This is just an act. 

The Cup hasn't been in Europe since 2010 and by all accounts Valencia 2007, when we had 11 Challengers, was one of the best if not the best Cups ever. I was there myself for the Cup Match and I couldn't believe the Enthusiasm.

The reason participation was low is because the Boat Class was changed 4 Times since 2007. That's why it was so critical that ETNZ won this Edition.

We now have 8 AC75's ready for take off!!!

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2 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

 the Boat Class was changed 4 Times since 2007. That's why it was so critical that ETNZ won this Edition.

What make you think that LR would have changed the Class? They actually always confirmed to stick to AC75s. It was only AM property that expressed such a desire.

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2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

And de Nora too 

 Cash ain’t a problem its there if they want it 

That's assuming those guys are interested in shelling out that much money, which I reckon they probably aren't.

They will undoubtedly chip some money in, but not the whole amount.

Also, who says emirates won't sponsor again? Firstly it's not an entirely commercial venture and secondly they need to look forward to after air travel starts picking up again.

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19 minutes ago, strider470 said:

What make you think that LR would have changed the Class? They actually always confirmed to stick to AC75s. It was only AM property that expressed such a desire.

To put it simple mate: I don't trust Patrizio Bertelli one bit. That guy changed his Position on the Boat Class as often as people change underwears. He was against these Boats before he was for it. I think he changed his mind because he wanted to please the Public. Who knows what would have happened had LR hocked up with Alinghi as their CoR for AC37 had they won the Event.

The only two Teams who 100 % wanted continue with the AC75's were ETNZ & INEOS. Right from the Get-Go after the AC75 Concepts were released in November 2017 Ben Ainslie enthusiastically supported it. Guess what: These two Teams are now likely going to make the Rules!

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5 minutes ago, Zeusproject said:

Another 4 year of development on the AC 75 the boats will be insane ! 

I had hoped that it won't take 4 years until the next Cup regatta - not counting the RtI rumor.

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I think you guys should chill out somewhat. Reading so-called news in the Herald and Stuff is not good for your health. They are both on a similar plane to the News of the World.

All they are interested in is creating mock outrage to sell papers.

Use your brains ! There is nothing to gain and everything to lose by having a one off DOG challenge in the UK.

The govt has given $5 to tide the team over while they discuss the future. This is EXACTLY how every NZ challenge has worked in the past.

After the vitriol and hatred aimed at the team that sold their souls to Bertarelli do you think any of the top sailors will depart ?

 

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6 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

I had hoped that it won't take 4 years until the next Cup regatta - not counting the RtI rumor.

If they want a serious shot of getting new teams in board it will have to be AT LEAST 3 Rennie.

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5 minutes ago, jaysper said:

If they want a serious shot of getting new teams in board it will have to be AT LEAST 3 Rennie.

That's a good point, indeed. Although I remember that for cost saving reasons 2 years were once discussed.
Well, it will be as it will be, as long as it's in EnnZee.

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4 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

That's a good point, indeed. Although I remember that for cost saving reasons 2 years were once discussed.
Well, it will be as it will be, as long as it's in EnnZee.

Personally I'd like to see the equivalent to the AC45s provided to each team as a part of the entry fee and race the shit out if them around the world.

You can bitch all you want about Wussell (and I do), but he got that right IMO.

I really want to see Artemis back. They were a great team by the time Bermuda rolled around.

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1 minute ago, jaysper said:

Personally I'd like to see the equivalent to the AC45s provided to each team as a part of the entry fee and race the shit out if them around the world.

You can bitch all you want about Wussell (and I do), but he got that right IMO.

I really want to see Artemis back. They were a great team by the time Bermuda rolled around.

No need for that expense. SailGP is already established (sort of). The boys and girls are already enrolled.

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4 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

No need for that expense. SailGP is already established (sort of). The boys and girls are already enrolled.

Yes, but it has nothing to do with the AC any more, nor the class.

This would allow teams to deliver value to sponsors early in and come to grips with foiling monohulls before their boats are built.

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18 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Personally I'd like to see the equivalent to the AC45s provided to each team as a part of the entry fee and race the shit out if them around the world.

You can bitch all you want about Wussell (and I do), but he got that right IMO.

I really want to see Artemis back. They were a great team by the time Bermuda rolled around.

One of the big reasons if not the biggest reason why Artemis did not compete in AC36 was the National Requirement and if @Barnybis right that Requirement will only go up and not down for AC37. That pretty much would eliminate some Teams right from the Get-Go. Alinghi & Ernesto have expressed interesting in contesting AC37 but they too will probably not make it because of that. Ernesto wanted that Requirement entirely dumped.

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

To put it simple mate: I don't trust Patrizio Bertelli one bit. That guy changed his Position on the Boat Class as often as people change underwears. He was against these Boats before he was for it. I think he changed his mind because he wanted to please the Public. Who knows what would have happened had LR hocked up with Alinghi as their CoR for AC37 had they won the Event.

The only two Teams who 100 % wanted continue with the AC75's were ETNZ & INEOS. Right from the Get-Go after the AC75 Concepts were released in November 2017 Ben Ainslie enthusiastically supported it. Guess what: These two Teams are now likely going to make the Rules!

Mate, you are making confusion with another team that actually changed the class of boats on the fly a few years ago, and it was not Prada.

If we have monos today you have to thank Bertelli (this was one of his conditions for LR helping ETNZ in 2017), then ETNZ wanted to make them fly. It is true that at the beginning the Italians thought the project was too much extreme and they wanted something simpler (and cheaper) that could have attracted more competitors, but in the end, they agreed with TNZ idea. And the result was quite good I daresay (apart from the lack of competitors). After seeing the actual boats nobody in the Italian team has NEVER said they would have changed class in case of victory. So, unless you have reliable sources that state the contrary, this is as it happened. You can trust who you want, but not write an opinion of yours as if it were facts. And I wish ETNZ that their trust in Ratcliffe will be rewarded as the Team Prada did in the past (and these are facts).

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17 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Mate, you are making confusion with another team that actually changed the class of boats on the fly a few years ago, and it was not Prada.

If we have monos today you have to thank Bertelli (this was one of his conditions for LR helping ETNZ in 2017), then ETNZ wanted to make them fly. It is true that at the beginning the Italians thought the project was too much extreme and they wanted something simpler (and cheaper) that could have attracted more competitors, but in the end, they agreed with TNZ idea. And the result was quite good I daresay (apart from the lack of competitors). After seeing the actual boats nobody in the Italian team has NEVER said they would have changed class in case of victory. So, unless you have reliable sources that state the contrary, this is as it happened. You can trust who you want, but not write an opinion of yours as if it were facts. And I wish ETNZ that their trust in Ratcliffe will be rewarded as the Team Prada did in the past (and these are facts).

No, I am not confusing it with another Team! See the facts here:

Patrizio Bertelli (June 2019)

There was an Article by Fabio Pozo of La Stampa in June 2019 translated by S-W Richard Gladwell where Patrizio was highly critical of the AC75 Class deemed it at "Too Extreme, Too Difficult"

https://www.sail-world.com/news/218926/Americas-Cup-yachts-too-extreme-claims-Bertelli

Bertelli then quote

"it was Patrizio Bertelli himself who wanted the return of the monohull after the era of catamarans used in the America's Cup in San Francisco and Bermuda."

"Yes, but I had suggested to the Kiwis to choose a less extreme boat than this one. A sort of modern VOR60 (the boat of the former Volvo Ocean Race) on which to develop two rudders with foils. Instead, they [ETNZ/RNZYS] wanted a hyper-technological solution, they insisted ... ".

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/113718065/luna-rossa-declare-new-americas-cup-boat-too-difficult-too-extreme

Bertelli now (January 2021)

https://www.ruetir.com/2021/01/14/americas-cup-bertelli-if-we-win-we-wont-change-boats/

I mean @strider470: You can't make this up mate!

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48 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

One of the big reasons if not the biggest reason why Artemis did not compete in AC36 was the National Requirement and if @Barnybis right that Requirement will only go up and not down for AC37. That pretty much would eliminate some Teams right from the Get-Go. Alinghi & Ernesto have expressed interesting in contesting AC37 but they too will probably not make it because of that. Ernesto wanted that Requirement entirely dumped.

Only rule I want is a NO ERNESTO rule.

I think the nationality requirement is quite disingenuous anyway. ETNZ did a lot of things this cup that I didn't like. I would like to see them turn some of that around.

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2 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Only rule I want is a NO ERNESTO rule.

I think the nationality requirement is quite disingenuous anyway. ETNZ did a lot of things this cup that I didn't like. I would like to see them turn some of that around.

From ETNZ Point of View the National Requirement was the right thing to. The last thing Dalton wanted is an exodus of NZ Sailing Talent going overseas like 2003.

And personally I find it quite ridiculous that a Kiwi (Barker) helming an American Boat and Spithill co-helming the Italians.

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1 minute ago, dg_sailingfan said:

And personally I find it quite ridiculous that a Kiwi (Barker) helming an American Boat and Spithill co-helming the Italians.

@Rennmaus. Rennie, pls tell the guy crew nationality was never in the cards, first Norwegian skipper and all ...

 

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And @jaysper,

I am extremely glad ETNZ did win this Event. Billionaires like Mr. Bertelli completely can change their mind as illustrated above especially once they get their hand on the Trophy. I hate this! That's why I said "Who knows what would have happened if they had won." Arm-twisting by Ernesto as CoR and we would be heading to 90-foot displacement racing.

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4 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

No, I am not confusing it with another Team! See the facts here:

Patrizio Bertelli (June 2019)

There was an Article by Fabio Pozo of La Stampa in June 2019 translated by S-W Richard Gladwell where Patrizio was highly critical of the AC75 Class deemed it at "Too Extreme, Too Difficult"

https://www.sail-world.com/news/218926/Americas-Cup-yachts-too-extreme-claims-Bertelli

Bertelli then quote

"it was Patrizio Bertelli himself who wanted the return of the monohull after the era of catamarans used in the America's Cup in San Francisco and Bermuda."

"Yes, but I had suggested to the Kiwis to choose a less extreme boat than this one. A sort of modern VOR60 (the boat of the former Volvo Ocean Race) on which to develop two rudders with foils. Instead, they [ETNZ/RNZYS] wanted a hyper-technological solution, they insisted ... ".

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/113718065/luna-rossa-declare-new-americas-cup-boat-too-difficult-too-extreme

Bertelli now (January 2021)

https://www.ruetir.com/2021/01/14/americas-cup-bertelli-if-we-win-we-wont-change-boats/

I mean @strider470: You can't make this up mate!

Could you read what I wrote? I quote here for your comodity:

20 minutes ago, strider470 said:

It is true that at the beginning the Italians thought the project was too much extreme and they wanted something simpler (and cheaper) that could have attracted more competitors, but in the end, they agreed with TNZ idea. And the result was quite good I daresay (apart from the lack of competitors). After seeing the actual boats nobody in the Italian team has NEVER said they would have changed class in case of victory.

The first article, from stuff (very reliable according to most Kiwis here) is dated 24/06/2019 and the first AC75 ever was in the water on 05/09/2019.

In the second article (01/2021) he said they won't change the class of boat.

Did I make up anything?

 

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5 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

From ETNZ Point of View the National Requirement was the right thing to. The last thing Dalton wanted is an exodus of NZ Sailing Talent going overseas like 2003.

And personally I find it quite ridiculous that a Kiwi (Barker) helming an American Boat and Spithill co-helming the Italians.

Let's talk about Glenn now

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2 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

And @jaysper,

I am extremely glad ETNZ did win this Event. Billionaires like Mr. Bertelli completely can change their mind as illustrated above especially once they get their hand on the Trophy. I hate this! That's why I said "Who knows what would have happened if they had won." Arm-twisting by Ernesto as CoR and we would be heading to 90-foot displacement racing.

I'm more than happy to have 90 footers.

However, lets be honest - ETNZ did NOT really live up to the hype this time around.

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4 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

And @jaysper,

I am extremely glad ETNZ did win this Event. Billionaires like Mr. Bertelli completely can change their mind as illustrated above especially once they get their hand on the Trophy. I hate this! That's why I said "Who knows what would have happened if they had won." Arm-twisting by Ernesto as CoR and we would be heading to 90-foot displacement racing.

You are accusing people with facts that exist only in your mind and you are totally distorting reality, You didn't illustrate anything. Hope you are not a lawyer or even worse, a judge.

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3 minutes ago, strider470 said:

You are accusing people with facts that exist only in your mind and you are totally distorting reality, You didn't illustrate anything. Hope you are not a lawyer or even worse, a judge.

Burn the witch! Burn the witch!

Wait? Wait?!? They're accused of shop lifting? Oh well, Burn the Witch! Burn the Witch!

I agree, Bertelli deserves to be given the benefit of the doubt.

I think he is mixing the names up with Bertarelli (they are quite similar after all).

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9 minutes ago, strider470 said:

You are accusing people with facts that exist only in your mind and you are totally distorting reality, You didn't illustrate anything. Hope you are not a lawyer or even worse, a judge.

I am not accusing anyone. I have just put some facts out and I gave Links and Quotes to it and the matter of fact is Mr. Bertelli was highly critical of the AC75 Class back in June 2019 only to do a complete 180 by the time the Prada Cup rolled around.

It just seems that you can't handle the truth what Mr. Bertelli said back then. If it's too hot for you to handle, get out of the kitchen.

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2 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Burn the witch! Burn the witch!

Wait? Wait?!? They're accused of shop lifting? Oh well, Burn the Witch! Burn the Witch!

I agree, Bertelli deserves to be given the benefit of the doubt.

I think he is mixing the names up with Bertarelli (they are quite similar after all).

I am not mixing these two people around. Why do you all of the sudden gave Mr. Bertelli the benefit of the doubt?

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Just now, dg_sailingfan said:

I am not mixing these two people around. Why do you all of the sudden gave Mr. Bertelli the benefit of the doubt?

Why the fuck not?

I gave ETNZ the benefit of the doubt. Am I not to extend the same to Bertelli because he is rich? Italian? Makes ugly bags?

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3 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

I'm sure Glenn would be eligible for a NZ passport by now

Ok, even others guys from any teams can acquire new citizenship. If you are against using people from other countries as a principle it is not coherent to use them. Even if Glenn would be eligible for a NZ passport by now. So the nationality rule must be strict but not so strict to affect ETNZ personnel?
I'm speaking in general, nothing against what you wrote.
And consider that for us Italians any rule that will be decided on this matter will not affect the possibility to compete by any means, even if, of course, I'll be very glad to have Jimmy with us again alongside Checco.

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6 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

I am not accusing anyone. I have just put some facts out and I gave Links and Quotes to it and the matter of fact is Mr. Bertelli was highly critical of the AC75 Class back in June 2019 only to do a complete 180 by the time the Prada Cup rolled around.

It just seems that you can't handle the truth what Mr. Bertelli said back then. If it's too hot for you to handle, get out of the kitchen.

Your logic is as sound as American Magic after the capsize.

I try to explain for the last time. Slowly. I'll put also numbers.

1) LR wanted monos and put this condition in order to help (consistent help) ETNZ in 2017 against Oracle

2) In the case of ETNZ victory LR would have been COR and participating in choosing the new class.

3) ETNZ produced the idea of a flying monohull

4) Prada were nor convinced for many reasons (complexity, costs, fear to have too few competitors) and clearly told this to ETNZ

5) After discussion Prada agreed on this design, even if still sceptical

6) the new boat rocks and, when seen on the water, totally convinces Prada that the project is very good indeed

7) Sirena praise in many interviews the Kiwi for this design

8) Bertelli says he won't change the class in case of victory

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2 minutes ago, strider470 said:

8) Bertelli says he won't change the class in case of victory

Even if he had won and changed the class, so what?

If and when he wins it, it is his right to do so.

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45 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Your logic is as sound as American Magic after the capsize.

I try to explain for the last time. Slowly. I'll put also numbers.

1) LR wanted monos and put this condition in order to help (consistent help) ETNZ in 2017 against Oracle

2) In the case of ETNZ victory LR would have been COR and participating in choosing the new class.

3) ETNZ produced the idea of a flying monohull

4) Prada were nor convinced for many reasons (complexity, costs, fear to have too few competitors) and clearly told this to ETNZ

5) After discussion Prada agreed on this design, even if still sceptical

6) the new boat rocks and, when seen on the water, totally convinces Prada that the project is very good indeed

7) Sirena praise in many interviews the Kiwi for this design

8) Bertelli says he won't change the class in case of victory

You sound like mad as hell that Emirates Team New Zealand let Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli fall like a hot potato and choose INEOS as new CoR instead.

And I would not mind INEOS & ETNZ make the next Protocol so strict to exclude your Team from the next AC after what your so called COR36 Clowns pulled with the Brits in the Prada Cup Final. This never was about Rules whether to race or not, it was about picking a favorable Wind Window to suit your Team. Longaresi-Cattani is such a Clown!

THE CLOWN Ladies & Gentleman

m415_crop101604_640x1024_1412696363CE40.

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7 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

You sound like mad as hell that Emirates Team New Zealand let Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli fall like a hot potato and choose INEOS as new CoR instead.

And I would not mind INEOS & ETNZ make the next Protocol so strict to exclude your Team from the next AC after what your so called COR36 Clowns pulled with the Brits in the Prada Cup Final. This never was about Rules whether to race or not, it was about picking a favorable Wind Window to suit your Team. Longaresi-Cattani is such a Clown!

THE CLOWN Ladies & Gentleman

 

Ma stai bene? :D :D

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

And personally I find it quite ridiculous that a Kiwi (Barker) helming an American Boat and Spithill co-helming the Italians.

Hired guns in the Americas cup is as old as the Americas cup itself.

Charlie Barr one example and  Lipton of Shamrock fame like many of the well to do of the day hired Canadians to heave ho and runaround for the simple reason they were well regarded seamen in the day.

Should Dean be denied an opportunity to make some cold hard cash elsewhere I mean ETNZ decided to invest in Burling and Tuke at Deans expense.

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1 hour ago, Navig8tor said:

Hired guns in the Americas cup is as old as the Americas cup itself.

Charlie Barr one example and  Lipton of Shamrock fame like many of the well to do of the day hired Canadians to heave ho and runaround for the simple reason they were well regarded seamen in the day.

Should Dean be denied an opportunity to make some cold hard cash elsewhere I mean ETNZ decided to invest in Burling and Tuke at Deans expense.

Agreed, and let's be clear. For most of the life of the AC, sailor nationality was not an issue. It only became an issue when NYYC made it one in an attempt to make things harder for challengers in order to continue winning the cup. It was nothing about marketing or perceptions of the cup.

The reality of the current nationality rules is that it significantly limits the number of potential challengers. To start with, you can discount any country that cannot sail all year around that doesn't have enough world class sailors of there own (I cannot think of one country in that situation that has), because of the residency rules for non nationals prevents them from moving overseas for warm weather winter training.

Has a nationality rule helped the AC at all? I would say no. We still had half the boats in the last edition being steered by non nationals. Did it make the Italian fans any less engaged having Jimmy. I don't think so. Based on this edition, I can only see negatives from the nationality rule, but maybe I have missed something. I expect NZers on here will be the biggest defenders of the nationality rule, as they gained the most from it!

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1 hour ago, SimonN said:

Agreed, and let's be clear. For most of the life of the AC, sailor nationality was not an issue. It only became an issue when NYYC made it one in an attempt to make things harder for challengers in order to continue winning the cup. It was nothing about marketing or perceptions of the cup.

The reality of the current nationality rules is that it significantly limits the number of potential challengers. To start with, you can discount any country that cannot sail all year around that doesn't have enough world class sailors of there own (I cannot think of one country in that situation that has), because of the residency rules for non nationals prevents them from moving overseas for warm weather winter training.

Has a nationality rule helped the AC at all? I would say no. We still had half the boats in the last edition being steered by non nationals. Did it make the Italian fans any less engaged having Jimmy. I don't think so. Based on this edition, I can only see negatives from the nationality rule, but maybe I have missed something. I expect NZers on here will be the biggest defenders of the nationality rule, as they gained the most from it!

From memory ETNZ brought it back after so many years of facing a "swiss" team or an "american" team that were made up mainly of nzers or australians.  The AC is supposed to be "between nations" and there is a better feel to it if the team is essentially from a particular country.  This time around although teams had skippers from another country (apart from UK) it did feel better having teams essentially made up of one country.  Italy is a good example.  Having said that, yes, it clearly limits the number of teams so it will be interesting to see if it is softened a bit.  Keeping the nationality rule would benefit NZ but also the other current teams.

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14 minutes ago, 1eyedkiwi said:

From memory ETNZ brought it back after so many years of facing a "swiss" team or an "american" team that were made up mainly of nzers or australians.  The AC is supposed to be "between nations" and there is a better feel to it if the team is essentially from a particular country.  This time around although teams had skippers from another country (apart from UK) it did feel better having teams essentially made up of one country.  Italy is a good example.  Having said that, yes, it clearly limits the number of teams so it will be interesting to see if it is softened a bit.  Keeping the nationality rule would benefit NZ but also the other current teams.

You have a misinformed sense of history. The Deed of Gift does say that it is between nations, but it doesn't say that it is between nationals of that nation. Have you ever doubted that the NYYC was being represented at any time by anything other than an American team? Yet from the very start of the AC, boats were crewed by sailors of other nationalities than the challenging club, even with skippers from other nations. The founding fathers had no issue over nationality of the sailors and there was never an intent that there should be a nationality clause. Anybody who quotes the "nations" clause as justification for a nationality requirement is ignoring history and intent of the DoG to justify a practice brought in to make it easier for the defender. It's even more ironic that a Kiwi calls for the event to be between nations when the his team is called EMIRATES tnz.

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56 minutes ago, 1eyedkiwi said:

Keeping the nationality rule would benefit NZ but also the other current teams.

Only for the kiwi folklore, your main designer was french, you captain was autralian, you money partly from the Emirates and you name is from the Emirates too.

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Only for the kiwi folklore, your main designer was french, you captain was autralian, you money partly from the Emirates and you name is from the Emirates too.

What happened for you to hate on ETNZ repeatedly ?? You seem intent on trying to bring em down ?

Can you not give any credit where credits due ?

Surely you can admit they are a great americas cup team ?

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12 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

LOL, just because somebody in a ball room said something it doesn't mean that's true. You cannot trust NZ Media, that's what I've learned over the years.

Thus far no Official Announcement (Press Release) has been made. And if the Royal Yacht Squadron were the CoR they + ITUK would be bragging all over it.

This hasn’t aged well. 

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On 3/18/2021 at 3:11 PM, southseasbill said:

Haha. You got me there Stingers!

The AC75s are in actuality, leeward proas?  Think about it.

And don't play the ballast game; even conventional dagger/centreboards carry weight. To sink them.

 

 

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9 hours ago, DickDastardly said:

I'm sure Glenn would be eligible for a NZ passport by now

For Australians, dual citizenship is available after living in New Zealand for 5 years, IIRC.

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3 hours ago, SimonN said:

You have a misinformed sense of history. The Deed of Gift does say that it is between nations, but it doesn't say that it is between nationals of that nation. Have you ever doubted that the NYYC was being represented at any time by anything other than an American team? Yet from the very start of the AC, boats were crewed by sailors of other nationalities than the challenging club, even with skippers from other nations. The founding fathers had no issue over nationality of the sailors and there was never an intent that there should be a nationality clause. Anybody who quotes the "nations" clause as justification for a nationality requirement is ignoring history and intent of the DoG to justify a practice brought in to make it easier for the defender. It's even more ironic that a Kiwi calls for the event to be between nations when the his team is called EMIRATES tnz.

Agreed. The Cup competition was entered on the yachts (represented in country of origin by their respective clubs). It had nothing at all to do with the sailors, as you point out.

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

For Australians, dual citizenship is available after living in New Zealand for 5 years, IIRC.

Doesn't need it, he is covered by being in the team for the last two years. The big thing with the new rules is no one can jump ship as of today. Makes Dalts life easier as any Kiwi sailor is in his team or no team.

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20 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Doesn't need it, he is covered by being in the team for the last two years. The big thing with the new rules is no one can jump ship as of today. Makes Dalts life easier as any Kiwi sailor is in his team or no team.

Are there actually new Rules already - or is this just under discussion?

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31 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Doesn't need it, he is covered by being in the team for the last two years. The big thing with the new rules is no one can jump ship as of today. Makes Dalts life easier as any Kiwi sailor is in his team or no team.

Ashby has dual citizenship, as does Jimmy, as do guys like Joey Newton as well.

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4 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Ashby has dual citizenship, as does Jimmy, as do guys like Joey Newton as well.

If he doesn’t have a passport already, someone in Wellington should print one overnight and deliver it the morning (no application required)

For a photo they can use one where he is holding the Cup

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6 minutes ago, Gissie said:

New rules. Nationality rules as of today.

I'm not familiar with this side of the AC...  who holds the power to ratify new Rules for the next AC?

Especially since the DoG doesn't refer to "nationality" per se, as mentioned in above comments.

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18 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

I'm not familiar with this side of the AC...  who holds the power to ratify new Rules for the next AC?

Especially since the DoG doesn't refer to "nationality" per se, as mentioned in above comments.

We need a diagram, with lots of arrows, of the opposing forces involved in the protocol of an AC match.

It's not so much fluid dynamics as a pissing contest.

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