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16 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

 the Olympics is basically a cash-grab, for-profit operation that cares about visual spectacle for viewership

 

I think the Olympics facing an ongoing challenge to generate enough revenues to cover costs.   Obviously Tokyo 2021 is going to lose a great deal of money due to covid crippling attendance.

But also going forward, since 2016, we have seen a dramatic switch from TV viewership in some major markets like the USa towards streaming.   The olympics will have to reinvent its content distribution accordingly if they want to continue to host the same level of extravaganza as the past.   Interesting to see what happens to sailingin 2028

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It's pissing down outside and yes, we are back to Level 3. To all those moaning and bitching about it and calling the PM childish names, get a grip, we are the luckiest people in the world right

Yes, quite light but I didn't see all the afternoon's sailing, can only comment on later in the day, when Britannia 2 was running a #1 jib and foiling around no problem. They look quite quick at times

They towed out around 11am and the breeze was light and puffy to start with. Foiled down the Channel and headed out to the Bays. The breeze started to build around midday and they got some long runs i

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20 hours ago, Forourselves said:

 

Didn't realize it took them so damn long. Too bad you Kiwi fucks are such a traitorous, back stabbing bunch. The kiwi civil war has taken its toll on the cup and hopefully it's over and you can go back to your underhandedness of the past.

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1 minute ago, pusslicker said:

Didn't realize it took them so damn long. Too bad you Kiwi fucks are such a traitorous, back stabbing bunch. The kiwi civil war has taken its toll on the cup and hopefully it's over and you can go back to your underhandedness of the past.

Hahaha spoken like a true loser.

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2 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

$ 200 Millions ? Grant must not have any serious sponsor yet. Anyway, quite a lot of money per habitant.

Don't believe everything you read in the press, TC. Especially The Herald. ;-)

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2 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Don't believe everything you read in the press, TC. Especially The Herald. ;-)

Yeah if it's coming from the Herald, the opposite is probably true. Big numbers being bandied around. $100m from the Govt has to be in the ball park, although the devil is in the details, and exactly how much of that is cash. Still hopeful the Cup will stay in NZ. Haven't heard any leaks about other potential bids.

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30 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Yeah if it's coming from the Herald, the opposite is probably true. Big numbers being bandied around. $100m from the Govt has to be in the ball park, although the devil is in the details, and exactly how much of that is cash. Still hopeful the Cup will stay in NZ. Haven't heard any leaks about other potential bids.

Other bids are UK & VLC in Europe and UAE, Asia!

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28 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Any numbers from those bids?

 

Nothing! But I guess we will see those Numbers once the 90-Day Negotiation Period has run out on June 17th! Reasonable Expectation probably is that we will know by months end whether the Cup stays in Auckland or not.

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5 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Play the game, National/Auckland Governments, or fuck off as far as the AC is concerned.

By play the game I guess you mean, bend over, grab the ankles and let Dalts have his way?

Part of the game is - here's our offer, don't like it, off you go. In today's world even 100 mill is a big number for a short event, in a sport that means fuck all to most.

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7 hours ago, Gissie said:

The government and Auckland should just say take it or leave it. Dalts and the team are playing the victim card, yet again, as they bank their checks.

Is that plus or minus the 3million that went walkies? 
 

 

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Doubt the NZ Gov will offer more than 40 million cash and likely be significantly under that. Not their style and public will be against any more.

If Dalton called their boat "cycle lane" they'd get the full 200m and some.

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4 hours ago, Gissie said:

In today's world even 100 mill is a big number for a short event,

The actual event may be short, but you're still paying salaries for 3 odd years leading up to it. $100m over 3 years is only $33m per year - which is not that much.......

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26 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

The actual event may be short, but you're still paying salaries for 3 odd years leading up to it. $100m over 3 years is only $33m per year - which is not that much.......

Plus if it is only $40m in cash with the other 60 "in kind" (this is what we would charge out the base rent as if we didn't give it to you for free etc) its even less

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There are 124 (!!!) people listed as part of Team New Zealand, with engineers and design staff probably on close to market rates, I reckon you're looking at a figure probably in excess of 10 million a year just for the staff (that would be 80K average across the entire team, so its hardly outrageous) with the 40 million cash would cover but leaving almost nothing to pay for the costs of the boats, hardware, running costs etc

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But if it's not enough then all another country has to do is put a black shirt on with silver leaf and that makes them kiwi we have been told. So it will all be good. In the case of UAE probably not even that as they have already paid their dues

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18 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

There are 124 (!!!) people listed as part of Team New Zealand, with engineers and design staff probably on close to market rates, I reckon you're looking at a figure probably in excess of 10 million a year just for the staff (that would be 80K average across the entire team, so its hardly outrageous) with the 40 million cash would cover but leaving almost nothing to pay for the costs of the boats, hardware, running costs etc

But this is for the event, not team NZ surely. Emirates airlines will pay  for the 124

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11 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

The actual event may be short, but you're still paying salaries for 3 odd years leading up to it. $100m over 3 years is only $33m per year - which is not that much.......

Not much if you say it fast...

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From this by RG

The overriding objective for the team is to provide a stable commercial platform from which can operate, as should be the situation with any other 35yr old business.

me: Umm, no. They need to either replace Matteo with a real $B or else add one to the ownership. 
 

https://www.sail-world.com/news/238130/Cup-holders-tightlipped-on-USD100m-package-rejection

 

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I think it's fair to point out, that each time Team NZ / GD have been thrown under the media bus they have come out alright. Just think back to the shit show those event coordinators and subsequent ministry investigations, stirred up, and none of it stuck. There were new papers, people here, etc.. claiming that was the end of GD and the team..

Then there was the Brazilian guy trying to get his 15 minutes that was also supposed to tarnish the team... didn't happen.

The fact is, Team NZ and GD aren't as stupid as many wish, and are playing the cards in accordance. Newpapers running rumors are nothing new to them, and I'm sure they'll be just fine.

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5 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Water is wet the sky is blue.... 

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18 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

America's Cup: Call for Team NZ to 'stay loyal' following reports of rejected $100m bid to keep regatta in Auckland 
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12447476

LOL, New Zealand are totally desillusional if they think a similar Sailing Spectacle cannot be created somewhere else.

They should look at some facts here:

The Viewership through YT & FB and TV Channels around the world (excluding TVNZ) was a total disaster. AC36 has had 10 Times fewer viewers compared to 2007 and 1987 which were both considered the best modern Day America's Cups.

If you want to present the AC to a larger audience you have to move to a more convinient time zone!

Few people will watch Sports in the middle of the Night!

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

If GD/Matteo are worth their weight then they will find commercial/private monies, take the offer, and run the AC37 Defense in Auckland. If they are lightweights then.. ???

"Lightweights"? Ha. What a knob.

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10 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

"Lightweights"? Ha. What a knob.

If they aren’t lightweights, with GD on some kind of commission for sponsorship raised, forced by apparently-stingy Matteo to do that, then what else do you call this setup?

They received $40M toward the team and the running of the event last time, plus the free Taj Mahal Team Base, and all the free infrastructure. So why the apparent $200M demand this time??
 

Weird, unless those two are trying to get richer. Again, that team needs a real $B. 

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Again, they are being leaked that Doha is in their back pocket? 
 

Doha in the Middle East and Portsmouth in England have been touted as other possible hosting venues if Auckland falls over.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.tvnz.co.nz/news/story/JTJGY29udGVudCUyRnR2bnolMkZvbmVuZXdzJTJGc3RvcnklMkYyMDIxJTJGMDYlMkYwMiUyRjZhbWN1cA==
 

Seriously, an AC37 in Doha? I suspect the Emperor has no  Clothes... Nobody would care about any sailboat race there, besides a few locals. 

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Again, they are being leaked that Doha is in their back pocket? 
 

Doha in the Middle East and Portsmouth in England have been touted as other possible hosting venues if Auckland falls over.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.tvnz.co.nz/news/story/JTJGY29udGVudCUyRnR2bnolMkZvbmVuZXdzJTJGc3RvcnklMkYyMDIxJTJGMDYlMkYwMiUyRjZhbWN1cA==
 

Seriously, an AC37 in Doha? I suspect the Emperor has no  Clothes... Nobody would care about any sailboat race there, besides a few locals. 

An “America’s Cup” in Doha, now that would generate a huge number of local spectators.  With Banda Abbas only a few hundred miles away, certainly the Iranian Navy would be willing to send some of its ships to insure that the spectators do not interfere with the racing.

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40 minutes ago, timmytwinstay said:

certainly the Iranian Navy would be willing to send some of its ships to insure that the spectators do not interfere with the racing.

If they don't keep burning them.

image.thumb.png.c325c8a428a91a9ed944e94b1be89280.png

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29 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Things like Superbowls, World Series make money for the host cities because they fill up existing hotel rooms and are played in existing stadiums.

Not in a COVID-active world sadly.

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Mayor Goff, a career politician, thinks TNZ has been made a 'fair' offer for Auckland to secure AC37 hosting rights.

'There was "an upper limit to what can be offered by Government and by [Auckland] Council, because we've got to be fair to the ratepayer and the taxpayer, but we think that the offer that's made is a very fair deal".

So he's now playing the 'Loyalty Card': 

'Aucklanders would be "incredibly disappointed" if the world's oldest sporting competition was taken overseas by Team New Zealand," Goff said. "I think they would feel let down and there's just no way around that. At the same time, I've also received a very clear message that having invested in the infrastructure, already having sunk the $112 million, doing it on time, to specifications, Aucklanders would not be keen in the difficult post-Covid times that we have financially, to see a whole lot of extra taxpayer money going into simply contributing to a host fee."

But then, he has never really understood market forces. 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/americas-cup-auckland-mayor-says-team-new-zealand-has-never-had-it-so-good/PTVX6IZF35ZJ4Q6ZYZ34Z664JY/ 

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38 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Mayor Goff, a career politician, thinks TNZ has been made a 'fair' offer for Auckland to secure AC37 hosting rights.

'There was "an upper limit to what can be offered by Government and by [Auckland] Council, because we've got to be fair to the ratepayer and the taxpayer, but we think that the offer that's made is a very fair deal".

So he's now playing the 'Loyalty Card': 

'Aucklanders would be "incredibly disappointed" if the world's oldest sporting competition was taken overseas by Team New Zealand," Goff said. "I think they would feel let down and there's just no way around that. At the same time, I've also received a very clear message that having invested in the infrastructure, already having sunk the $112 million, doing it on time, to specifications, Aucklanders would not be keen in the difficult post-Covid times that we have financially, to see a whole lot of extra taxpayer money going into simply contributing to a host fee."

But then, he has never really understood market forces. 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/americas-cup-auckland-mayor-says-team-new-zealand-has-never-had-it-so-good/PTVX6IZF35ZJ4Q6ZYZ34Z664JY/ 

He also a dig at Helen Clark I reckon!

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2 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Not in a COVID-active world sadly.

Well not last year but maybe this year and next in US. My point was specially built infrastructure is not recouped let alone profitable after one event. 

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

Well not last year but maybe this year and next in US. My point was specially built infrastructure is not recouped let alone profitable after one event. 

The tank farm desperately needed to be removed anyway, and all the "specially built" infrastructure will prove very profitable in the near future. Even sooner so, if there is no AC anymore.

 

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9 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

LOL, New Zealand are totally desillusional if they think a similar Sailing Spectacle cannot be created somewhere else.

They should look at some facts here:

The Viewership through YT & FB and TV Channels around the world (excluding TVNZ) was a total disaster. AC36 has had 10 Times fewer viewers compared to 2007 and 1987 which were both considered the best modern Day America's Cups.

If you want to present the AC to a larger audience you have to move to a more convinient time zone!

Few people will watch Sports in the middle of the Night!

I'm at the end of Africa, but on Europe's time zone. AC36 was not at a good time to watch(4am normally) so while this is a very good point, I'm not sure if it is enough to swing it.

 

9 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

The indirect benefit from holding AC36 will be massive to NZ Inc post covid, but hard to measure. As a country they have done very well, turning this away to the open market would be a short sighted shot in the foot.

 

I'll be very surprised if it goes offshore, this is surely just two sides of a high stakes negotiation table seeing who can be pushed before blinking. 

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2 hours ago, shebeen said:

The indirect benefit from holding AC36 will be massive to NZ Inc post covid, but hard to measure.

"When Governments compete with each other to subsidise boat races that rich people tend to enjoy, the winners aren't taxpayers."

 

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

"When Governments compete with each other to subsidise boat races that rich people tend to enjoy, the winners aren't taxpayers."

 

Are you saying rich people don't pay tax? ;-)

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2 hours ago, Priscilla said:

"When Governments compete with each other to subsidise boat races that rich people tend to enjoy, the winners aren't taxpayers."

 

ok let's compare with some figures that are probably the best test case for this. I assume the AC37 negotiations would know this transaction quite well.

Bermuda pays $15m to host AC35 (+ $25m guarantee)

Full investment projected to be closer to $77m

Projected benefit from AC35 - $240m. a nice 300% + ROI

https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2017/06/23/bermuda-americas-cup-investment/

this is BEFORE it happened.

After the fact, 525% ROI - accounting for the future revenue from tourism probabaly covid stunted, it still looks like a really good move with under budget spend being a good indicator too.

https://www.royalgazette.com/event/news/article/20171109/bermudas-330m-boost-from-americas-cup/

and knock on effects, like SailGP just the other day will continue to benefit.

 

 

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17 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

From this by RG

The overriding objective for the team is to provide a stable commercial platform from which can operate, as should be the situation with any other 35yr old business.

Competing in the AC is a "business" now? FFS, it's licence to burn cash made elsewhere. Always was, always will be.

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11 hours ago, shebeen said:

The indirect benefit from holding AC36 will be massive to NZ Inc post covid, but hard to measure.

Perhaps a good measure would be a 'measure of interest' - meaning an investment into the event by those businesses that are making the claims around benefits. Boat builders, hoteliers, Southern Spars, etc.

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Well, next year certainly and maybe the one after won't be post covid for NZ travel purposes, so no harm for a little mano a mano in Portsmouth. Unless NZ loses, of course. 

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35 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Well, next year certainly and maybe the one after won't be post covid for NZ travel purposes, so no harm for a little mano a mano in Portsmouth. Unless NZ loses, of course. 

'Little' is how I would characterize that 'mano a mano' too. More like an exhibition race, one that also runs the risk of permanently losing the only other two currently-interested and viable challengers, and reducing interest even further. This was apparently ETNZ's balloon-fly idea, maybe as a negotiating ploy against NZ, and I doubt the chances it would happen are very high.

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16 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Are you saying rich people don't pay tax? ;-)

Not as much as poor people SBD, you know that to be true.  But by hokey... they don 't do too badly when the tax is spent  ;-)

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12 minutes ago, Rhumline said:

Not as much as poor people SBD, you know that to be true.  But by hokey... they don 't do too badly when the tax is spent  ;-)

Ha, ha. Very good.

I just got my Tax Assessment from IRD and I owed them $2.61. They kindly wrote it off! ;-)

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

Hm. TE resigned when they went to Bermuda didn't  he?

Not same role but hmmm.

Mate,

You are making a very good Point. The very same thing crept to my mind too. Something is going on over there. I wonder if it is connected moving the AC overseas!

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Quote

Despite his retirement from the Board, Sir Stephen will continue his involvement with the team as the Emirates Team New Zealand Sustainability Ambassador to continue driving environmental and sustainability initiatives and innovations with the team such as the partnership with The Warehouse and Toitu for Emirates Team New Zealand to achieve a carbonzero certified 36th America’s Cup campaign.  

 

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https://twitter.com/EmiratesTeamNZ/status/1402008169166032897?s=20

Quote

 

Emirates Team New Zealand have committed to drive Hydrogen innovation in the marine industry by developing Hydrogen powered chase boats for the 37th America’s Cup.
They have been working with AFCryo, a Christchurch based innovative company in design, development and manufacture of composite cryostats for the cryogenic and superconducting industries

Currently the Emirates Team New Zealand designers are working on a prototype hydrogen powered foiling chase boat, to be built at the team’s North Shore build facility, capable of standing up to the demands of supporting an AC75 throughout all aspects of an America’s Cup campaign.Once launched and verified, and with the support of the Challenger of Record Ineos Team UK, it is possible that the Protocol for the 37th America’s Cup will contain a provision that all teams must use hydrogen powered support boats. This would also apply to the 20+ event and race support boats which will have a considerable impact on the reduction of consumption of fossil fuels across the event.

Emirates Team New Zealand CEO Grant Dalton said, “Emirates Team New Zealand continues to be at the forefront of innovation and we intend to really drive the development curve of new and clean technology in the marine industry. It is our hope that we can make a seismic shift into hydrogen power and an emission free statement for the industry. This initiative is not without risk as we have very specific operating criteria within the team and the America’s Cup, so it is not a small undertaking.

Technical Director Hugh Reynolds is leading the project for AFCryo, “As an organisation we have been working in cryogenics, and clean-tech solutions, for 17 years. We are a strong proponent of green hydrogen and are manufacturing hydrogen production systems in New Zealand. It is exciting to work with Emirates Team New Zealand on such an aggressive development curve and timeline to deliver on water Hydrogen storage and power. The opportunity to contribute to such an exciting project aligns perfectly with our view of sustainable future energy.

INEOS TEAM UK and Challenger of Record Team Principal Skipper Sir Ben Ainslie is behind the push into Hydrogen power on the water, “For nearly two centuries the America’s Cup has pushed the boundaries in design and engineering, whilst ensuring innovation benefits the wider marine industry. With so much investment in hydrogen across the world, shifting to foiling chase boats, powered by hydrogen could well prove to be a sustainable and practical solution for the future of the marine industry, while supporting the AC75’s which are reaching speeds in excess of 50 knots.”

Terry Hutchinson, Skipper and Executive Director of New York Yacht Club American Magic, the U.S. Challenger for the 36th America’s Cup said, “It is impressive to see how innovation remains the driving force behind the America’s Cup after 170 years of racing. We support the Defender’s efforts to apply their performance innovation skills to sustainable and environmentally friendly technology."

Elements of the hydrogen innovation will also be assessed and developed into how they can potentially be utilised in the functions of the next generation of AC75’s also.

 

 

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EMIRATES TEAM NEW ZEALAND TO DRIVE INITIATIVE IN MARINE INDUSTRY WITH HYDROGEN INNOVATION

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Emirates Team New Zealand have committed to drive Hydrogen innovation in the marine industry by developing Hydrogen powered chase boats for the 37th America’s Cup.
They have been working with AFCryo, a Christchurch based innovative company in design, development and manufacture of composite cryostats for the cryogenic and superconducting industries

m4751_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1  

 

Currently the Emirates Team New Zealand designers are working on a prototype hydrogen powered foiling chase boat, to be built at the team’s North Shore build facility, capable of standing up to the demands of supporting an AC75 throughout all aspects of an America’s Cup campaign.Once launched and verified, and with the support of the Challenger of Record Ineos Team UK, it is possible that the Protocol for the 37th America’s Cup will contain a provision that all teams must use hydrogen powered support boats. This would also apply to the 20+ event and race support boats which will have a considerable impact on the reduction of consumption of fossil fuels across the event.

Emirates Team New Zealand CEO Grant Dalton said, “Emirates Team New Zealand continues to be at the forefront of innovation and we intend to really drive the development curve of new and clean technology in the marine industry. It is our hope that we can make a seismic shift into hydrogen power and an emission free statement for the industry. This initiative is not without risk as we have very specific operating criteria within the team and the America’s Cup, so it is not a small undertaking.

m4753_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1  

 

Technical Director Hugh Reynolds is leading the project for AFCryo, “As an organisation we have been working in cryogenics, and clean-tech solutions, for 17 years. We are a strong proponent of green hydrogen and are manufacturing hydrogen production systems in New Zealand. It is exciting to work with Emirates Team New Zealand on such an aggressive development curve and timeline to deliver on water Hydrogen storage and power. The opportunity to contribute to such an exciting project aligns perfectly with our view of sustainable future energy.

INEOS TEAM UK and Challenger of Record Team Principal Skipper Sir Ben Ainslie is behind the push into Hydrogen power on the water, “For nearly two centuries the America’s Cup has pushed the boundaries in design and engineering, whilst ensuring innovation benefits the wider marine industry. With so much investment in hydrogen across the world, shifting to foiling chase boats, powered by hydrogen could well prove to be a sustainable and practical solution for the future of the marine industry, while supporting the AC75’s which are reaching speeds in excess of 50 knots.”

Terry Hutchinson, Skipper and Executive Director of New York Yacht Club American Magic, the U.S. Challenger for the 36th America’s Cup said, “It is impressive to see how innovation remains the driving force behind the America’s Cup after 170 years of racing. We support the Defender’s efforts to apply their performance innovation skills to sustainable and environmentally friendly technology."

m4752_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1

A bit more information here ..

https://emirates-team-new-zealand.americascup.com/en/news/526_EMIRATES-TEAM-NEW-ZEALAND-TO-DRIVE-INITIATIVE-IN-MARINE-INDUSTRY-WITH-HYDROGEN-INNOVATION.html

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2 hours ago, chesirecat said:

I think is highly likely there is a connection, the challenger ( INEOS ) must agree to the protocol and ETNZ has "AFCryo, a Christchurch (NZ) based innovative company in design, development and manufacture of composite cryostats for the cryogenic and superconducting industries" so the challengers will have something else to distract them from their main purpose.

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