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It's pissing down outside and yes, we are back to Level 3. To all those moaning and bitching about it and calling the PM childish names, get a grip, we are the luckiest people in the world right

Yes, quite light but I didn't see all the afternoon's sailing, can only comment on later in the day, when Britannia 2 was running a #1 jib and foiling around no problem. They look quite quick at times

They towed out around 11am and the breeze was light and puffy to start with. Foiled down the Channel and headed out to the Bays. The breeze started to build around midday and they got some long runs i

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8 hours ago, Xlot said:

 

Alinghi could volunteer :D 

Seriously, this could be a good opportunity for forcing TNZ to simplify the AC75 Rule and stay within the available funding - for the common good

 

TNZ and common good are two things that will never come together.

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Weren't NYYC threatening to get the court involved when they presented their challenge as well? Seems like if NYYC or RNZYS really have something on TNZ they should pull the trigger on a lawsuit or STFU if they are just unhappy with whatever it is TNZ are doing.

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3 hours ago, atwinda said:

Weren't NYYC threatening to get the court involved when they presented their challenge as well? Seems like if NYYC or RNZYS really have something on TNZ they should pull the trigger on a lawsuit or STFU if they are just unhappy with whatever it is TNZ are doing.

The fact that NYYC sent a Challenge before entries under the next Protocol open, plus the slightly-cryptic refence made by the NYYC Comm alluding to 'it would be too bad if this goes to court', are both a touch curious but I expect nothing to come of it, ultimately. What ETNZ does need to do, is to at least consider some of the proposals in the NYYC Challenge, apparently ones agreed to in consultation with Prada, or risk losing two of the only three viable Challengers.  

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49 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

What was the "common good" for Bermuda hosting AC35?

Not much in a 'nationality' sense obviously. But SF was not an option, the in-progress cruise ship terminal they used for AC34 was about to ramp up and so no longer available. LE offered to buy Pier 32 for some eye-watering sum, but then balked when environmental cleanup cost estimates went atmospheric and then other interests (think it was the SF Golden State basketball team?) offered to buy and use it differently and then did build a new stadium on the site.

But the Bermuda move did portend the larger 'open-minded' vision LE and RC had, for sure. Hard to say where this past Cup might have been held had they won in Bermuda... St Tropez?

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Didn't the "common good" cost Bermuda something like $75m?

Bermuda ended up spending more like $55m, of which around $15m was into improvements near the cruise ship terminal that still exist, and were used for SailGP Bermuda recently, space enough for 8 teams. AC35 had 6 bases.

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31 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Bermuda ended up spending more like $55m, of which around $15m was into improvements near the cruise ship terminal that still exist, and were used for SailGP Bermuda recently, space enough for 8 teams. AC35 had 6 bases.

Tried to add:

Given the new setup in Auckland, I will be very surprised if AC37 goes elsewhere. Both the venue and ETNZ's base are now terrific, IMO unbeatable across all considerations including fan support. 

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Tried to add:

Given the new setup in Auckland, I will be very surprised if AC37 goes elsewhere. Both the venue and ETNZ's base are now terrific, IMO unbeatable across all considerations including fan support. 

TNZ would leave all that behind for more/better funding, if they are pushed to it.

They have to Defend AC37. It's a matter of survival. 

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12 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

TNZ would leave all that behind for more/better funding, if they are pushed to it.

They have to Defend AC37. It's a matter of survival. 

'if they are pushed to it' ... By their $B Matteo?

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Just now, Stingray~ said:

'if they are pushed to it' ... By their $B Matteo?

 

Just now, Stingray~ said:

'if they are pushed to it' ... By their $B Matteo?

In this game, you go where the money is. 

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1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

 

In this game, you go where the money is. 

Except for when teams have $B benefactors who aren't in it for profit-making, maybe.

My guess is that Matteo has good intentions but is willing to fund the team only up to some limit ($50M per cycle?) and so that's why GD and whoever-else have to look for extra fundraising opportunities.

If GD had relationships with bigger $B's, like what TH and MS and BA have, perhaps ETNZ wouldn't be in this perennial hell-hole.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Tried to add:

Given the new setup in Auckland, I will be very surprised if AC37 goes elsewhere. Both the venue and ETNZ's base are now terrific, IMO unbeatable across all considerations including fan support. 

Fan Support is only in NZ.

One of the reasons Ellison took the Cup to Bermuda was for Broadcast Reasons.

If you want to show this great Trophy on a Global Stage you have to select a Venue which has a more convinient Time Zone.

Both, Portsmouth and the middle east would fit in that perfectly!

No one will bother to Racing in the midst of the Night at the back end of the World!

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

If GD had relationships with bigger $B's, like what TH and MS and BA have, perhaps ETNZ wouldn't be in this perennial hell-hole.

Ha, ha. That my friend, is stating the fucking obvious. Well done. 

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43 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

No one will bother to Racing in the midst of the Night at the back end of the World!

And yet they do. Again and again. 

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44 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Fan Support is only in NZ.

One of the reasons Ellison took the Cup to Bermuda was for Broadcast Reasons.

If you want to show this great Trophy on a Global Stage you have to select a Venue which has a more convinient Time Zone.

Both, Portsmouth and the middle east would fit in that perfectly!

No one will bother to Racing in the midst of the Night at the back end of the World!

Another factor being NZ markets are far too small for the larger Co's to be interested and sponsoring an event  where one has to wait three years while writing checks, for the event to take place. Then its over in a few weeks, forgotten,until until another long wait with noises of court battles and/or battling billionaires, doing ones profile no favours and sniped at for being elitist.

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Except for when teams have $B benefactors who aren't in it for profit-making, maybe.

My guess is that Matteo has good intentions but is willing to fund the team only up to some limit ($50M per cycle?) and so that's why GD and whoever-else have to look for extra fundraising opportunities.

If GD had relationships with bigger $B's, like what TH and MS and BA have, perhaps ETNZ wouldn't be in this perennial hell-hole.

 

 

Billionaires are overrated.

Its only good while they're interested.

Oracle is dead, as is Artemis Racing and Softbank Team Japan. Alinghi is out in the widerness, Bezos is too busy flying into space. Ratcliffe is keen now, but if he gets a few losses under his belt, thats bound to change, so he may not last long either.

And who's left? The commercially funded/ sponsored teams like Team NZ.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Fan Support is only in NZ.

One of the reasons Ellison took the Cup to Bermuda was for Broadcast Reasons.

If you want to show this great Trophy on a Global Stage you have to select a Venue which has a more convinient Time Zone.

Both, Portsmouth and the middle east would fit in that perfectly!

No one will bother to Racing in the midst of the Night at the back end of the World!

I'm not sure if that really is the case. would be interesting to see the europe viewership stats compared from SF AC34, Bermuda AC35 and NZ AC36. i want this to be a TV hit, but i don't think it's ever happened.

how many people actually tuned in for (what sailors will say is) sports greatests comeback in AC34? 

 

but if i'm wrong, and TV is required in a decent timezone, then ETNZ needs to find a way to sail in a place with solid breeze at 8am (or come to another place in the southern hemisphere on europe's timezone. I hear the bottom end of Africa is pretty decent

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5 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Not much in a 'nationality' sense obviously. But SF was not an option, the in-progress cruise ship terminal they used for AC34 was about to ramp up and so no longer available. LE offered to buy Pier 32 for some eye-watering sum, but then balked when environmental cleanup cost estimates went atmospheric and then other interests (think it was the SF Golden State basketball team?) offered to buy and use it differently and then did build a new stadium on the site.

But the Bermuda move did portend the larger 'open-minded' vision LE and RC had, for sure. Hard to say where this past Cup might have been held had they won in Bermuda... St Tropez?

 

 

But SF can't be the only place in the US with suitable waters. 

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4 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

And yet they do. Again and again. 

But a decreasing number.

There's a downward trend in interest in the AC since the high water mark of AC32. Interest by $Bs, by commercial sponsors, interest by the public. AC37 may be the time those chickens come home to roost.

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51 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

But a decreasing number.

There's a downward trend in interest in the AC since the high water mark of AC32. Interest by $Bs, by commercial sponsors, interest by the public. AC37 may be the time those chickens come home to roost.

Sad to say, for interest to be rekindled, I think the cup needs to be won by someone other than NZ 

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56 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

But a decreasing number.

There's a downward trend in interest in the AC since the high water mark of AC32. Interest by $Bs, by commercial sponsors, interest by the public. AC37 may be the time those chickens come home to roost.

Do viewership numbers really matter in the AC? Isn't that all just periphery to the drive to Challenge/Defend a yacht design race? 

To commercial sponsors? Yes of course - viewership engages audiences to satisfy ROI.

And to $quillionaire principals? Who the hell knows? But something has kept them interested for 170 years or so.

 

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25 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Sad to say, for interest to be rekindled, I think the cup needs to be won by someone other than NZ 

Yeah. Must be Australia's turn again.

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9 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Yeah. Must be Australia's turn again.

Maybe if Italy or UK won it, it might rekindle interest.  I have no idea why, just a gut feeling that something has to happen.  The AC 72s are spectacular but they have to get less expensive and closer in performance.

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30 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Do viewership numbers really matter in the AC? Isn't that all just periphery to the drive to Challenge/Defend a yacht design race? 

To commercial sponsors? Yes of course - viewership engages audiences to satisfy ROI.

And to $quillionaire principals? Who the hell knows? But something has kept them interested for 170 years or so.

 

Fewer and fewer $Bs, in a worlds that has more and more of them. That's the issue. I think we may be in the end-game of the AC as it has evolved since Australia won it. Maybe it will return to something that looks like projects that run for a few months in a cycle, rather than the continuous hyper-professional circuit it has become. I don't think that would be so terrible.  

 

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3 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

Youtube stats showed around 30k watching in Auckland. SailGP in Taranto had around 2k.....but the App...!!!!!

30 thousand kiwis?

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1 hour ago, NSP said:

Obviously they're going to announce that they're suing each other :D

:D Yes, hopefully it's encouraging news.

I seem to remember ETNZ saying a while back there would be a status update by mid-June, so if this event was already-scheduled then perhaps we shouldn't expect anything definitive. 

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10 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

The AC 72s are spectacular but they have to get less expensive and closer in performance.

And yet the protagonists are spending hundreds of millions to effect the opposite. Go figure. ;-)

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10 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Fewer and fewer $Bs, in a worlds that has more and more of them. That's the issue. I think we may be in the end-game of the AC as it has evolved since Australia won it. Maybe it will return to something that looks like projects that run for a few months in a cycle, rather than the continuous hyper-professional circuit it has become. I don't think that would be so terrible.  

 

Agree. Meantime, SailGP, could provide all the sustainability needed for the professional circuit.

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

A hell of a lot more would have been watching free to air.

Until they realised the cringe factor of the free to air broadcast and decided to watch the youtube feeds instead ;)

 

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4 hours ago, MrBump said:

Until they realised the cringe factor of the free to air broadcast and decided to watch the youtube feeds instead ;)

 

Well, if they were sailors, there was that, certainly. The rest - cringe factor wouldn't affect them, being just like the usual shit they watch on TV.

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11 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

By a strange coincidence, also the number of posts made by 4U on the SailGP thread saying he wasn't interested in it

Theres lots of posts in the AC threads from  people who aren't interested in the most current AC cycle too.

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From NZ Herald:

"Victory in March kicked off three months of exclusive negotiations with the Government over a further defence in Auckland. But talks appear to have stalled. While both sides have refused to comment while good faith negotiations are underway, the Herald has been told negotiators appointed to represent the Crown in talks with Team NZ have been told their bid was unsuccessful.

Whether Team New Zealand can take the event offshore appears to be the subject of debate among lawyers."

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/royal-nz-yacht-squadron-to-meet-team-nz-boss-grant-dalton-over-americas-cup-future/LTOF7B6POSB6N5JQ7ZMYDPJSSM/

Bolding mine.

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Quote:

A spokesman for Team New Zealand said Dalton would update squadron members about the negotiation process as he had throughout the process. It would not include discussing the outcome of negotiations with the Crown "because it is prior to the end of the exclusive negotiation period".

So, what the fuck are they updating/discussing then?

 

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47 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Quote:

A spokesman for Team New Zealand said Dalton would update squadron members about the negotiation process as he had throughout the process. It would not include discussing the outcome of negotiations with the Crown "because it is prior to the end of the exclusive negotiation period".

So, what the fuck are they updating/discussing then?

 

Hoping to sell the offshore option benefits to members, I'd say.

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Oops.. liar liar pants on fire. 
 

On 4/28/2021 at 6:26 AM, Forourselves said:

In all seriousness, as much of an AC fan that I am, I watched the Bermuda SailGP event, and I did so with an open mind, and I tried as hard as I could to be objective about the racing.

So, the Kiwi team - uncharacteristically off the pace. To be expected with a brand new, untested boat with no sailing hours on their own boat. We all know how fast they learn, and they'll be top 4 easily by the the time the Lyttleton event comes around. 

 

On 6/8/2021 at 10:19 AM, Forourselves said:

I didnt watch the first event, but i cant help it if its all over my freakin FB and IG news feeds!

Maybe you shouldve just said Burling had shit luck in Bermuda too then. A brand new boat that was untested and ended up with hydraulic issues. Not his fault either. But consistency has never been your strongpoint.

 

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18 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Oops.. liar liar pants on fire. 
 

 

 

Yip, I watched the video below, because Matt had some great insight into the AC, so I watched all 6 minutes 20 seconds of his video. Its all I could endure of such a bush league event before I had to rewatch the AC finals again to see real racing.

 

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You said you watched the event, not part of it or a bit if it, but you watched the event

 

then you said you didn’t watch it at all 

 

now you watched a 6min video. 
 

You lied, you were caught out. Zero credibility. 

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

 

The problem I see is no European country’s likely to put up facilities/venue money remotely on par with Valencia

And if they go to Qatar, it’ll be a light air fest similar to last week’s SailGP in Taranto

 

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Probably a good thing to have it rotate to different regions. But they should make sure the area has winds conducive to good sailing, not just a bunch of money bags. The AC should be a self funded event and not rely on the locals to bear the cost. 

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18 minutes ago, Xlot said:

 

The problem I see is no European country’s likely to put up facilities/venue money remotely on par with Valencia

And if they go to Qatar, it’ll be a light air fest similar to last week’s SailGP in Taranto

 

I would not mind Valencia :wub:, but Holy Heavens, would I be angry if I were a Kiwi.

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1 hour ago, Rennmaus said:

I would not mind Valencia :wub:, but Holy Heavens, would I be angry if I were a Kiwi.

Sorry, I was definitely not clear: I should have said “no European country’s likely to put up facilities/venue money on par with what was done in Valencia for AC32. Money is much tighter now

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1 minute ago, Xlot said:

Sorry, I was definitely not clear: I should have said “no European country’s likely to put up facilities/venue money on par with what was done in Valencia for AC32. Money is much tighter now

I know, the article didn't say anything about VLC either. Nonetheless, it is a great venue, facility, sightseeing and culture wise; wind wise less so.

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12 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

You said you watched the event, not part of it or a bit if it, but you watched the event

 

then you said you didn’t watch it at all 

 

now you watched a 6min video. 
 

You lied, you were caught out. Zero credibility. 

I did watch the event, just not the fake hyped SailGP version of the event.

So I haven't watched SailGP, but i have watched Matt Sheehans breakdown of it without the "Sailing redefined, sailing revolutionised fake bullshit that SailGP pushes. You wanna watch that crap with the rest of the dumbasses, go ahead. Not Me.

You jumped to conclusions because you're obsessed with me, because you're a troll.

You got caught out.

You have zero credibility.

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By the way if you read that Gladwell article closely Richard thinks that there is already an Agreement in Place between the Kiwis and the Brits to come back to Auckland for AC38 in Auckland.

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6 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

By the way if you read that Gladwell article closely Richard thinks that there is already an Agreement in Place between the Kiwis and the Brits to come back to Auckland for AC38 in Auckland.

Not sure how welcome they would be if they take it away for AC37.

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6 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

By the way if you read that Gladwell article closely Richard thinks that there is already an Agreement in Place between the Kiwis and the Brits to come back to Auckland for AC38 in Auckland.

If they don't have money now how are they going to have it then?

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

Sometimes I wish Four wasn’t blocked by so many people.. seeing him explain how he has watched an event that he then said he didn’t and justify the lies is gold. 

You have an unhealthy obsession with me. Time for you to take a break.

My beef is with SailGP, your beef is with me.

I couldn't care less what you or anyone else thinks or says. You're nothing more than a nameless faceless internet troll to me.

Unfortunately you can't say the same thing, so you're the one with the problem.

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7 hours ago, pusslicker said:

If they don't have money now how are they going to have it then?

The prevailing theory is that someone is going to pay them a handsome sum for holding AC37 offshore. 

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5 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Sometimes I wish Four wasn’t blocked by so many people.. seeing him explain how he has watched an event that he then said he didn’t and justify the lies is gold. 

I really dont miss the pointless arguments that you all have.

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14 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

By the way if you read that Gladwell article closely Richard thinks that there is already an Agreement in Place between the Kiwis and the Brits to come back to Auckland for AC38 in Auckland.

Will there come  a time when NZ concludes that it has demonstrated its prowess in the AC and simple decides to take a break and lot other nations spend hundreds of millions on chasing the cup.

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2 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Will there come  a time when NZ concludes that it has demonstrated its prowess in the AC and simple decides to take a break and lot other nations spend hundreds of millions on chasing the cup.

They've fucked it up enough so maybe that would be a good option. The only problem is that they are also the only ones that care at this point.

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11 hours ago, Gissie said:

Not sure how welcome they would be if they take it away for AC37.

Exactly, it makes no sense at all to promise an AC38 in Auckland if they can't or won't make it work for AC37. 

17 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

By the way if you read that Gladwell article closely Richard thinks that there is already an Agreement in Place between the Kiwis and the Brits to come back to Auckland for AC38 in Auckland.

 

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19 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

I know, the article didn't say anything about VLC either. Nonetheless, it is a great venue, facility, sightseeing and culture wise; wind wise less so.

The Darsena could surely be reutilized, it was pretty ideal. Wind-wise... Sardinia??

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34 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Exactly, it makes no sense at all to promise an AC38 in Auckland if they can't or won't make it work for AC37. 

 

Based on vigorous research consisting of reading this forum and the comments section on Facebook, which nobody should ever do, plenty of Kiwis appear to have no problem with TNZ taking AC37 offshore if AC38 will be in Auckland. In other words, plenty of Kiwis will welcome TNZ back. So maybe it makes some sense.

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38 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Exactly, it makes no sense at all to promise an AC38 in Auckland if they can't or won't make it work for AC37. 

I disagree. AC38 2026 in Auckland makes totally sense. By then that stubborn socialist Labor Government in NZ would open it's borders again.

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22 minutes ago, porthos said:

Based on vigorous research consisting of reading this forum and the comments section on Facebook, which nobody should ever do, plenty of Kiwis appear to have no problem with TNZ taking AC37 offshore if AC38 will be in Auckland. In other words, plenty of Kiwis will welcome TNZ back. So maybe it makes some sense.

It's just hard to fathom them making an agreement at this time with Auckland for AC38 if they can't do so for AC37.

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11 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

It's just hard to fathom them making an agreement at this time with Auckland for AC38 if they can't do so for AC37.

Why is that hard to fathom? I don't see how they need to reach an agreement now.  TNZ (with RNZYS's blessing, if they get it) hold AC37 offshore and get a boatload (pun intended) of money for doing so, making the team financially able to hold AC38 in Auckland. After AC37, TNZ (with RNZYS's blessing) goes to Auckland and negotiates terms that are better for Auckland then than they would be now. If Auckland declines -- and I doubt it would, particularly if TNZ loses the cup in AC37 and has to participate in the challenger series -- I'm sure there are other places they can hold it in NZ. And if the whole country declines, then there are likely plenty of other places outside of NZ that would be willing to host AC38.

That seems rather logical if not even likely. Will some in NZ be upset? Sure. But some always will. I suspect many in NZ would at the very least understand why TNZ did what it did. As others have noted, operating in the manner may be a survival issue for TNZ under the present circumstances.

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32 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

It's just hard to fathom them making an agreement at this time with Auckland for AC38 if they can't do so for AC37.

IMO, the problem does not rely in the fact that they don't hold AC37 in Auckland, but that they decide the second venue in a place without knowing the AC37 winner. Which means that CoR/D have an agreement and that not other competitors will be allowed in AC37, unless they make them sign the same prerequisite, and such prerequisite would not meet the Deed "Any YC can challenge", which would let open and law suit by the NNYC, unless they are involved in the negotiation.

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1 hour ago, porthos said:

I don't see how they need to reach an agreement now.

And yet that is what has been being suggested. I forget the original source, was it in an ETNZ statement? Or maybe Ratcliffe? 

 

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Minor consideration: the eventual formal announcement of an extra-NZ venue would have to be on RNZYS’s letterhead. I don’t see them obliging without at least one or several passages through the courts (lawyers already arguing the clause of TNZ’s having the last word on venue is null and void), and this would take time

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

And yet that is what has been being suggested. I forget the original source, was it in an ETNZ statement? Or maybe Ratcliffe? 

 

Dunno. That is certainly what the rumor mill produced right after AC36. And TNZ and RNZYS don't seem entirely aligned, so perhaps TNZ suggested it.  But all of that is rumor and rumors are of very limited value. Fun to discuss but largely worthless. Might as well just wait to see what happens.

But if TNZ is in financial distress, holding AC37 offshore in exchange for an infusion of cash makes plenty sense.  

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1 minute ago, porthos said:

Dunno. That is certainly what the rumor mill produced right after AC36. And TNZ and RNZYS don't seem entirely aligned, so perhaps TNZ suggested it.  But all of that is rumor and rumors are of very limited value. Fun to discuss but largely worthless. Might as well just wait to see what happens.

But if TNZ is in financial distress, holding AC37 offshore in exchange for an infusion of cash makes plenty sense.  

Agreed, it could make financial sense for ETNZ and more broadly for the AC event and the chance to entice another team or two. 
 

On the other hand there must surely be people in NZ wanting it to stay in Auckland, including business interests. Guys like Peter Busfield? 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/03/04/sports/sailing/americas-cup-superyachts.amp.html
 

One rumor is that Jim Farmer is also among those looking to RNZYS to prevent the team from taking it offshore. 
James Farmer: Whatever the result, is this the last time the America's Cup event is held in NZ? 
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12365162

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